Benefits of a responsive site vs. mobile + desktop site

9 years ago

Benefits are that you are only going to be updating one platform instead of having to do multiple updates or upgrades when information changes.

If the client does any form of ecommerce then it makes sense that people can purchase from any device with minimal fuss and minimal administration from the back end.

We've been down the path of desktop with mobile redirect but now all of those sites are getting overhauled into responsive sites.

With the upgraded sites we've also moved them to faster servers that are closer to the targeted audiences which has resulted in a significant improvement in user experience not only for mobile users but also desktop users.

Enquiries dropped slightly but the sales have increased markedly with no additional ad spend.

I can only assume the improvement is due to both speed and the fact that mobile visitor can now have a simple engaging experience where that can buy without hassle and in many cases without having to "request info".

We are now upgrading some other sites that are not ecommerce based and in those cases I expect that enquiries will increase due to the improved usability coupled with the speed.

One client who we provide some marketing services to but whose website we weren't involved with in the upgrade from Desktop with mob redirect to responsive has had problems....

...largely due to changing from a well optimised MODX site with redirect to now Wordpress responsive that is overloaded with cr@p and running on a slow host...

...they have serious issues which they are trying to get their *low cost* provider...both host and web designer to fix.

My suggestion is whatever approach you take definitely encourage client to host on fastest servers within budgets and go responsive now and optimize for fast page loading.

Clean simple design also helps

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Roshnishrivastava

Banned 9 years ago

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savidge4 9 years ago

I think the answer comes down to the intent of the site, and the usability of the site for the end user. Mobile as it is defined is any site that is accessed through a device that has the ability to stick to your ear and make a call ( phone ). A tablet is NOT a mobile device. Where applicable, I produce a responsive site and a mobile site. The responsive adapts to the needs of desktop and tablet, and the mobile is for just that mobile.

If the site is a commerce site this is where things get difficult. you have to go with responsive all the way around. Just the maintenance aspect alone makes it this way. UNLESS you are selling only a few items, then it may be worth the effort. The reality is in commerce, Mobile is NOT the holy grail of traffic. The numbers we see represented are all skewed 3 days to Sunday due to mobile app purchase and gaming and the like.

IF there is a gain to be made in site development and segmenting traffic based on screen size Tablet is where the effort needs to be placed.

Mobile devices ( Phones) in terms of UX ( User Experience ) needs to really be looked at. if your site is a lead gen site and the primary goal is to fill out a form. you need to really look at the size of a responsive form vs a mobile intended form. there is really no comparison. Mobile in that application wins every time.

If you are developing for the likes of a restaurant or a trade where simple data can be looked at ( menus, service, etc. ) and the intent is to get directions ( responsive does not do this well ) or to get the phone to ring Mobile programming is by far to the extent of UX again the way to go.

As we move forward with technology there are already wearable device technologies ( watches ) that have to be considered.. these are without question going to be in the realm of "Mobile" programming.

Again I stand behind usability. You can actually go here: https://mosaic.netobjects.com/ and build and develop a basic mobile site ( for free as in no credit card for the first 30 days needed ) and compare with what you already have. This is the exact same service I use for clients in most cases.

The overall factor that needs to be looked at is existing data if this is an upgrade for a site. in Google Analytics you can break all this stuff down. how many mobile users do you have. Whats the percentage of conversion? Are you offering the right things and in the right words to create a mobile conversion? This question alone if answered based on data can be the determining factor of mobile vs responsive.

If your site offers a free PDF file, and all you have to do is fill in your name and e-mail.. are you going to follow through on your mobile device? the answer is probably no. who wants to look at a PDF on a phone right? but what if on the mobile site you re-word the offer to state the PDF will be sent to you by mail. it reduces friction correct? Mobile has a different mind set.

In the above scenario on a desktop version we are pushing "instant" and the words "sent to you by mail" it becomes a kill joy for the potential immediacy. in most cases conversion drops. You immediately think I want it NOW.. and users tend to walk off and find what they are looking for NOW.. even tho it takes longer to find it than the 5 minutes it would take to get it in the e-mail box

Responsive design has made the job of a designer/developer easy. Hey you just have to build it once! I think its lazy. In web design there are no one size fits all answers. responsive vs. mobile included. There is user testing.. there is looking at the actual site data.. its not a choice.. its a decision that is made through data and testing.
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Adrian John

9 years ago

Mobile website should be short and to the point with obvious call to action.
Responsive sites displays the whole content on a tiny screen and from my experience having several pages to read of content(as mobile screen are so small compared to PC) will make the user lose their interest.
People who search for a business on their mobile want fast info and be able to call immediately, usually they're on the go, they don;t have time to scroll several times to get to where they need.
Small business mobile sites are different than news sites and blogs which people are looking to spend time and read.
Bellow you can find some threads where these differencies and other particularities have been discussed
http://www.warriorforum.com/mobile-marketing/738432-difference-between-mobile-site-responsive-design.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/mobile-marketing/767352-mobile-websites.html

However it's your choice to educate the client that what they need to accomplish through a desktop or mobile website is to get more clients to their door. Design with their clients in mind, put yourself in thier client's shoes and create a design strategy to get the most out of their websites.

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

Instead of sending mobile users to a separate mobile site.. can't you send them to a page or node on the responsive site that "cuts to the chase"?

cag

Originally Posted by Adrian John

Mobile website should be short and to the point with obvious call to action.
Responsive sites displays the whole content on a tiny screen and from my experience having several pages to read of content(as mobile screen are so small compared to PC) will make the user lose their interest.
People who search for a business on their mobile want fast info and be able to call immediately, usually they're on the go, they don;t have time to scroll several times to get to where they need.
Small business mobile sites are different than news sites and blogs which people are looking to spend time and read.
Bellow you can find some threads where these differencies and other particularities have been discussed
http://www.warriorforum.com/mobile-marketing/738432-difference-between-mobile-site-responsive-design.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/mobile-marketing/767352-mobile-websites.html

However it's your choice to educate the client that what they need to accomplish through a desktop or mobile website is to get more clients to their door. Design with their clients in mind, put yourself in thier client's shoes and create a design strategy to get the most out of their websites.

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

Instead of sending mobile users to a separate mobile site.. can't you send them to a page or node on the responsive site that "cuts to the chase"?

cag

Absolutely. You can even do a simple mobile redirect in Wordpress to land them on a different page/post that is designed solely for the mobile user, but still allows them to move on to the other content if they desire.

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Chris Grable 9 years ago

Thanks Barry!!

Sounds like the best of both worlds!

Cheers,
chris
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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

Absolutely. You can even do a simple mobile redirect in Wordpress to land them on a different page/post that is designed solely for the mobile user, but still allows them to move on to the other content if they desire.

For $50 a year I ask why bother? Wordpress mobile navigation is not the best user experience to start with, and then you are suggesting to place them to a page that is "better" for their screen size only to be dumped back to the rest of the site. it really does not make to much sense.

Its kinda like saying here.. you can drive this Mercedes out of your driveway every day and a block down the road.. park it and hop in this Yugo. Then drive the Yugo to work, and when you come back.. park that block away and get back in your Mercedes to pull into your driveway so you look good.

And after all of that the time spent altering and adjusting and trying to make things right, you could have just created a better user experience from the beginning with out all the hassles.

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

Yes, but that's not really what I was suggesting.

Maybe I have a unique perspective but I use one of the new larger smartphones and being dropped into mobile4 site aggravates the hell out of me.

I am imagining a single page (or very few) populated with short codes that contain the information and functionality most applicable to a mobile user... with a clear and prominent link(s) to the "normal" responsive site. Crafted correctly, this SHOULD reduce the complexity of maintaining two versions of the same site while still providing the performance of a lean mobile site, Yes?

chris

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savidge4

9 years ago

I hate to be blunt like this ( not really but it sounds good ) YOU do have a unique perspective. One that consists less than 10% of mobile phone users.( https://medium.com/@somospostpc/a-co...s-e61d77001ebe ) Are you trying to sell to yourself or all the people with smaller screens? I would ensure in my redirect that a phone your size gets the responsive portion of the site, and a phone such as say the iPhone 4S would get the mobile optimized.

Dropping new content into 2 sites is really not that hard. an additional what 5 minutes? ( maybe ) and the possibility of seeing 100 - 400% difference in conversion? hmmm There is time, and then there is time well spent... this is one of those cases where it becomes time well spent.

When was the last time that you can remember that "easy" was the better solution?

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

Yes, but that's not really what I was suggesting.

Maybe I have a unique perspective but I use one of the new larger smartphones and being dropped into mobile4 site aggravates the hell out of me.

I am imagining a single page (or very few) populated with short codes that contain the information and functionality most applicable to a mobile user... with a clear and prominent link(s) to the "normal" responsive site. Crafted correctly, this SHOULD reduce the complexity of maintaining two versions of the same site while still providing the performance of a lean mobile site, Yes?

chris

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

I hear you... and I am happy being unique.... have been just about as long as I can remember.

It's just that I hardly ever see mobile sites done well... My bank (credit union) certainly can't do it.... (the last one I was on)

In either case... it's clearly a matter of personal opinion and to the extend that we are talking about someone else's (a client maybe) site... our opinions don't count for much..... unless of course we are talking from the perspective of a customer -- in which case -- just to put it bluntly, I hate mobile sites... <he winks again>

Nite,
Chris

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

I hear you... and I am happy being unique.... have been just about as long as I can remember.

It's just that I hardly ever see mobile sites done well... My bank (credit union) certainly can't do it.... (the last one I was on)

In either case... it's clearly a matter of personal opinion and to the extend that we are talking about someone else's (a client maybe) site... our opinions don't count for much..... unless of course we are talking from the perspective of a customer -- in which case -- just to put it bluntly, I hate mobile sites... <he winks again>

Nite,
Chris

A clients site... oh but that is why they hire us in the first place right? Our opinion? Our knowledge? Our ability to increase Sales driven by ROI? - I can only speak for myself, that's why I get hired at least. and damn skippy If the client is brick and mortar.. they are getting mobile. Its NOT about opinion its about conversion. push talk and push directions... that is just the outside shell of what mobile has to offer.

You start reading studies such as this: https://www.conversioner.com/blog/mobile-optimization when converting to mobile from Responsive with mobile phone traffic converted traffic 600% better. And I can produce far more of the same if you like. This is not about opinion or what I like or you like. it is about numbers.. it is about what customers of our clients respond to. and respond to favorably.

Yes there is some consideration put in place as to what the traffic overall looks like.. if your mobile traffic is 10% ehhh but you start getting numbers higher than that.. you really have to take a long hard look at it.

Wordpress in particular just plain out sucks in the realm of responsive. you step out of Wordpress and move to Bootstrap, OMG... responsive on that level, yeah you are developing your site once.. its faster, it responds well at all levels , there is control over what is seen and what's not. its simply a beautiful thing.

Down in the comments section of that article Talia Wolf makes a very powerful statement "The idea is simply to better understand what your users are trying to do than to just follow the herd and make your site fit all screens." And again this falls into User Experience ( UX ) And these are things I test all the time... like its my job!

But Chris, you are right, you are going to do what you are going to do... I cant force you, nor will I even try.. but I will discuss the shortcomings of the choice! <wink back at ya>

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

Not sure how I managed to get myself in these situations... Possibly, I will have to stop posting late at night.

I enjoy your posts too much to argue with you about what I said or tried to say. So my head tells me to stop here but my gut is shouting.... "Take One More Shot At It!!"

I was trying to make a few points... 1) If you can create a very lean and minimalistic page or set of pages inside an otherwise responsive site.. and redirect mobile users to it (sort of best of both worlds)... it seems like it would reduce complexity. And no, "easy" is not necessarily better, but "less complex" often is. 2)... me personally...me... maybe just me.. but me for sure... Mobile sites aggravate me. and 3)... Admittedly maybe because I have this bias,,,, I seldom find a mobile site that is done well.

That's it!

Cheers,
Chris

Originally Posted by savidge4

A clients site... oh but that is why they hire us in the first place right? Our opinion? Our knowledge? Our ability to increase Sales driven by ROI? - I can only speak for myself, that's why I get hired at least. and damn skippy If the client is brick and mortar.. they are getting mobile. Its NOT about opinion its about conversion. push talk and push directions... that is just the outside shell of what mobile has to offer.

You start reading studies such as this: https://www.conversioner.com/blog/mobile-optimization when converting to mobile from Responsive with mobile phone traffic converted traffic 600% better. And I can produce far more of the same if you like. This is not about opinion or what I like or you like. it is about numbers.. it is about what customers of our clients respond to. and respond to favorably.

Yes there is some consideration put in place as to what the traffic overall looks like.. if your mobile traffic is 10% ehhh but you start getting numbers higher than that.. you really have to take a long hard look at it.

Wordpress in particular just plain out sucks in the realm of responsive. you step out of Wordpress and move to Bootstrap, OMG... responsive on that level, yeah you are developing your site once.. its faster, it responds well at all levels , there is control over what is seen and what's not. its simply a beautiful thing.

Down in the comments section of that article Talia Wolf makes a very powerful statement "The idea is simply to better understand what your users are trying to do than to just follow the herd and make your site fit all screens." And again this falls into User Experience ( UX ) And these are things I test all the time... like its my job!

But Chris, you are right, you are going to do what you are going to do... I cant force you, nor will I even try.. but I will discuss the shortcomings of the choice! <wink back at ya>

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

I seldom find a mobile site that is done well.

Does that include the Warrior Forum Mobile version?

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

Does that include the Warrior Forum Mobile version?

Actually... I just, a day or so ago, realized that this forum had a mobile friendly version.... I say mobile friendly because I didn't have enough time to decide if it was a separate site or a responsive site. I am GUESSING but now that I think about it... it might be the same site (or the same database) displayed in a different framework.

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Chris Grable

9 years ago

While I am being persnickety... mobile apps are something else that I often find less than useful.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

While I am being persnickety... mobile apps are something else that I often find less than useful.

I will agree here 100% most of the time.. As much as I understand them, i think many use them when they really should be developing mobile sites instead.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I will agree here 100% most of the time.. As much as I understand them, i think many use them when they really should be developing mobile sites instead.

Just like someone with a cluttered desktop full of shortcuts...are they really more efficient?

If you are a big brand like Amex etc I can see the value but do people really want another bit of clutter for a business they might not really use too frequently?

Word on the street might be every business needs an app....really?

What's your thought?

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

Just like someone with a cluttered desktop full of shortcuts...are they really more efficient?

If you are a big brand like Amex etc I can see the value but do people really want another bit of clutter for a business they might not really use too frequently?

Word on the street might be every business needs an app....really?

What's your thought?

I think there is a time and a place for APP's... Im not sure the idea of push notifications is the best use for an App at all. My personal Satellite services business has an APP. There are exactly 9 copies of it out in the world. Each of my 5 techs have a copy.. one of them lost their phone so there is a copy there, and my phone has one. In the office we have 2 back up phones with the APP installed as backup, incase one of the techs leaves his phone at home etc.

I would consider it right up there with some of the best development dollars I have spent on that business. The APP is built specifically for my business' needs. Job information, the ability to take picture ( we are required to do this ) In and out time stamping gas expenses all kinds of minor stuff that brings a bunch of data together, that makes the management of that business easier on me and my accountant.

So we get into the idea of APP's for small business. If we first start looking at what some of the big boys do.. Ozi, since you asked I will use Outback Steak House as an example ( An Australian themed steak house in case you don't know haha) but they have an APP.. it lets you do seat reservations and you get push notifications and all kinds of good stuff.

I was truly interested in what they were using the APP for. More importantly how they used the APP vs what they were doing with the mobile site. There was NO difference. other than the obvious push notifications. The same message on the APP, on their mobile site, and on their social media locations. Kinda like why bother?

So what gets really interesting with the concept of APP marketing is the idea of "Beacon" marketing. THIS is where the power of an APP comes to life. Enter a store, and the APP pushes a notification. "Welcome and thanks for visiting us today. You might find our sales on this and that and the other of interest. You have this many points and can enjoy a x% discount at checkout today"

THAT gets silly. Customer engagement ( without the greeter that never says hi to me anyways ) A method to target product to customers based on past purchases, and more than its share of retention value.

I think every MALL in the world should have this type of set-up... Not just A STORE.. hooking them all up. would change the shopping dynamic dramatically. anyways here is a interesting article on the concept: 38pc of millennial moms are reachable in-store via beacons: report - Mobile Commerce Daily - Research with killer stats too by the way.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

So what gets really interesting with the concept of APP marketing is the idea of "Beacon" marketing. THIS is where the power of an APP comes to life. Enter a store, and the APP pushes a notification. "Welcome and thanks for visiting us today. You might find our sales on this and that and the other of interest. You have this many points and can enjoy a x% discount at checkout today"

Thanks Paul

There is a surfware business doing things this way here in oz with proximity notifications etc...because of our smaller population that tend to only test on fewer major locations rather than rolling out everywhere....but it is coming...

...and I can understand the use of apps to drive sales for the businesses that can either generate the volume of traffic or the social aspects or both.

I just get a bit edgy when I think about how most Aussie businesses are about 15 years behind the US in webdev so there are plenty of easier trees to fell first.

As we move to cash-less transactions which the talk is like 18-36 months away the app market will boom here but like many things the momentum is still in the warm-up phase...at least that is my experience..

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

There is a surfware business doing things this way here in oz with proximity notifications etc...because of our smaller population that tend to only test on fewer major locations rather than rolling out everywhere....but it is coming...

Its not only coming unless facebook is different in AU... its already there. The primary issue here is education. It is REAL easy to talk a business into the need of an APP.. and then the whole push notification crap. your average little mom and pop restaurant the last I looked ends up with 300 or so users average of their APP. ON A GOOD DAY. Um Degree of Thousands of dollars to develop and whatever in month fees... 300 users... we will say $3400 for the year.. was that a wise choice?

Facebook HAS proximity settings. how many people will download YOUR APP and how many will download FaceBooks APP? which APP would you prefer to target? There is without question more to be made in providing proximity advertising for business' with facebook ads than producing an APP.. and the ROI would far greater, which can only mean you end up with more and more business.

But its not easy... its not about developing and maintaining a relationship.. its about how many people can I get signed up until the thing blows up in my face. And this sadly is what 95% of internet marketers believe is "Business" and it truly is sad.

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

I just get a bit edgy when I think about how most Aussie businesses are about 15 years behind the US in webdev so there are plenty of easier trees to fell first.

I do a decent amount of business in AU ( enough for me to have to hire a translator LOL ) and I am not so sure that its the business' that are behind, but more the marketers that are. AU is ripe not because they don't want to, I just dont think there are those that are going after it. and the ones that do.. fall into that category above and are known to be sleeze bags. - this is what I am told anyways.

If you were to ask people what countries would you associate SEO to... many answer AU and NZ. some of he best minds in SEO come from that region of the world.. Look at the owner of "Freelancer" Matt Barrie he is an Aussie.

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

As we move to cash-less transactions which the talk is like 18-36 months away the app market will boom here but like many things the momentum is still in the warm-up phase...at least that is my experience..

If that is really the time line for that you are not behind the US at all.. I would say you are in the 5 years ahead mark. We are no where close to being there. in my town there are 2 places that I am aware of that meet the standard. We still have Gas pumps that you have to go inside and pay for before they are turned on! LOL

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MarcParkinson

9 years ago

Biggest benefit for clients is recovering lost revenue, you can show them that xxx number of folks are searching for their business from mobile and they are already loosing them actively (Works great in conjunction of SEO service pitch)

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

That's a great article you referenced Savidge4.

The point I was making for Chris was that it can be done, and in some cases makes perfect sense.

A small local service business that is only trying to get people to call them could use a responsive Wordpress, or other responsive site, and optimize only certain pages for their mobile users, while still providing a link to additional content on their responsive site.

For a commerce site, trying to sell on their pages, this would NOT be a great idea.

Thanks for your posts, they are fabulous.

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Chris Gylseth

9 years ago

Just a quick note that even in WordPress there are ways to hide elements of a page from mobile users, thereby making the reading experience better for a mobile user landing on a responsive site.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Gylseth

Just a quick note that even in WordPress there are ways to hide elements of a page from mobile users, thereby making the reading experience better for a mobile user landing on a responsive site.

You are absolutely right there is. And believe me I am not knocking the idea at all.. I am saying that once you go through all of the hassle of coding in the mobile CSS function and basically build a shell of a site for mobile, and figure the linking and referencing and all of these things.. wouldn't it just be time efficient to develop a mobile only site?

Here is the big deal for me on the subject. Once you are at the point you have decided in your "opinion" that some mobile function is needed in parts of your site... why isn't the thought process looking at the entire User Experience ( UX )

Look at the conversation going on in this thread. Chris dislikes mobile sites but is willing to develop a page or 2 to meet the specific needs? So Chris has admitted there is a need for a separate experience.. but he would prefer on his bigger phone to have the responsive experience to his site. And with that.. I cant agree more. The new larger phones do throw a wrench into it all.

BUT the NEED has been identified... "Wants" are like.. well you know and everybody has them.. but when you start talking NEEDS and more importantly NEEDS for a business to communicate better to its customers... oh geeze my blood starts to boil! LOL

If you are playing with Bootstrap or the Foundation platforms.. this type of thing is just so much easier ( Foundation is my preference ). The minute you start dinking with this stuff in Wordpress.. well the lack of ability in the Wordpress platform shines ever so bright on the black hole for mobile support. The grid is just not there to support it at all.

Wordpress in my eyes falls into the category of "Easy" by no means the best.. I could argue one of the worst platforms to be developing sites with... but the reality is it is the "standard" in the eyes of clients ( and many site designers that simply don't know any better ) As I have spoken about before, you can buck the system or if you cant beat them, then you need to join them. The use of Wordpress is meeting market demand in regards to obtaining clients.

There is simply a list of reasons once you have identified the NEED to go with a mobile only / Responsive model for development. Let me lay out one such item that would be on my list.. by no means at the top but on the list no less...

You decide to go ahead and develop these mobile targeted pages.. everythings all set up with a little css magic and a redirect.. and then the day comes.. "Hey I want to change my theme" Guess what? unless the theme platform is exactly the same.. all that magic CSS and redirect.. basically all of the work you did to meet your ideals of the need.. its all gone and you are starting over. Just this alone is enough to deter me.

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

You decide to go ahead and develop these mobile targeted pages.. everythings all set up with a little css magic and a redirect.. and then the day comes.. "Hey I want to change my theme" Guess what? unless the theme platform is exactly the same.. all that magic CSS and redirect.. basically all of the work you did to meet your ideals of the need.. its all gone and you are starting over. Just this alone is enough to deter me.

That is a powerful argument.

You mention using Bootstrap and/or Foundation to build responsive sites, do you use the same frameworks to create your mobile only site, code it by hand, or.....?

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

That is a powerful argument.

You mention using Bootstrap and/or Foundation to build responsive sites, do you use the same frameworks to create your mobile only site, code it by hand, or.....?

It depends on the need of the site. something with a bit more than the basic information such as blog posts etc.. I will use Foundation more often than not. your basic business card type site that is more lead gen than anything I use: https://mosaic.netobjects.com/ its a bit better than decent building interface and at $50 per year including hosting.. how can you go wrong?

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

By the sounds of it not many people know about or use an Adaptive/RESS approach for desktop/mobile web development.

There really needs not be any Mobile v Responsive debate... simply put, this approach is like Responsive design on steroids that takes the best of both worlds and mixes them together!

Say for example you were using WordPress - there are tools/plugins that enable you to use a regular responsive or non responsive theme for your desktop visitors and then when a mobile visitor comes to the site it switches themes to display a mobile optimized theme.... allowing you to keep your mobile optimized layout to be completely separate from the responsive/desktop...

I find this particularly useful since i can edit the responsive site css and html layout and not worry its messing up my mobile layout and vice versa, which addresses some of the concerns earlier in this thread.

Check out the top 100 alexa sites and you will find not many use responsive but instead they incorporate some kind of Adaptive/RESS approach... even Google.com front page is adaptive! Don't believe me try resizing your browser it may scale but look at it with a user agent switcher and you will see it dramatically renders a different HTML structure depending on the type of mobile user agent viewing it...

See Google regular desktop browser: http://screencast.com/t/GNclwsPIUnRk

See Google with iPhone user agent: http://screencast.com/t/9iakONkkTY

See Google using older Blackberry 8x: http://screencast.com/t/uQjlzQh1u

See Google using an super old school Nokia N60 user agent: http://screencast.com/t/jF5aoSZGr

All the same url - but different optimized layouts...

You don't get much simpler than Googles home page made with a handful of links and a form with one text field and submit button - but yet they took the time to use an adaptive approach that renders different mobile optimized layout code based specifically for different user agents... why do this when they could have easily used a 100% responsive approach? My guess is to offer the best end user experience possible...

Google has no issue with this type of approach, (they can't very well really since they use it themselves) and like most good responsive sites it also gives sites done using this method the "mobile friendly" tag you see in the Mobile Serps.

The advantages of this over standalone mobile sites is as i showed in the screenshots, just like a responsive site you can use the same urls, and you have greater control over the content too either using the original content that you would show desktop users, or conditionally switch it to show specific content for mobile visitors or even redirecting mobile users to a different url but on the same site... Overall with the type of approach you benefit from having greater control over what your mobile visitors see and how they navigate and access your site, at the same time offering them faster page load speeds too!

Continuing, this approach allows you to compliment the desktop site with a better functioning mobile version of your site while keeping the same branding, color schemes and aesthetics as your desktop site...

It makes sense (to me at least) to try and provide your visitor with the best end user experience regardless if they visit your site on a desktop browser or a mobile one, it really doesn't take that much effort to put in place either with the right tools...

Doing your sites like this also benefits your clients that don't have a responsive site, since they don't have to have a standalone mobile site built and they dont need to have their site redesigned with a responsive theme - you can just add this extra Adpative/RESS layer - again the plus here means they don't have two separate sites and two lots of content to manage.

I have been involved in mobile since the days of WAP, and from experience i can say there is no one glove fits all solution to this but for the majority of sites this is the approach we take...

Where possible we try and do a new WordPress site using a Responsive Theme for desktop and tablet visitors and an Adaptive/RESS Theme for mobile visitors

Understanding all the solutions available to you, as well as the pros and cons of each and for you be able to make a well informed decision whats best for you and your client will only be win win for all involved, for you, your client, and your clients visitors!

Hope that helps!

Cheers

jay

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Barry Unruh 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jay Moreno

Where possible we try and do a new WordPress site using a Responsive Theme for desktop and tablet visitors and an Adaptive/RESS Theme for mobile visitors

Hey Jay, Thanks for the thoughtful input.

Can you give me an example of an Adaptive/RESS Theme you would use in conjunction with WordPress?

Does JumpMobi fall into that category?
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- Jay Moreno 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Barry Unruh
  
  Hey Jay, Thanks for the thoughtful input.
  
  Can you give me an example of an Adaptive/RESS Theme you would use in conjunction with WordPress?
  
  The basic principles to this approach when using WordPress are:
  
  1) To have a mobile theme switcher plugin
  2) A theme for desktop visitors (recommend it be responsive to also accommodate tablet visitors)
  3) A mobile specific theme (available from themeforest.net, there are other options available too).
  
  Your regular desktop theme would be activated and it is displayed to tablet and desktop users but when a mobile visitor visits the site, the mobile theme switcher plugin identifies mobile user agent and triggers the theme switch to show your selected mobile optimized theme to your visitor.
  
  Remember the reason for this is so you can have better control over what the mobile visitor sees, this way you can easily customize the mobile theme specifically where your responsive theme may fall short. For me i find that most often responsive layouts dont cut it for me and rather than fiddling around with the code and opening a huge can of worms and messing around with media queries etc its much simpler to do this approach.
  
  To me It's not a question of which is better, am simply expanding the functionality of my responsive layout by enhancing it and complimenting the desktop theme. I see it as no different from literally installing a cool plugin that offers cool features that improves the end users experience.
  
  There are also other WordPress plugins (mobble) that you can install that give you conditional shortcodes for displaying content based on user agent detection and also for conditionally controlling how other plugins function (plugin organizer) when being accessed by mobile visitors. This helps with page load speeds and preventing problematic or non mobile friendly plugins from activating.
  
  As you mentioned you can hide elements with CSS using media queries but that doesn't stop them from loading, and slowing down your page load speed... what would you rather do hide a slider with 10 images that still takes time to download or simply not load it all! Using an Adaptive/RESS approach enables this type of control - likewise you may want to show a completely different mobile only navigation menu which is also formatted differently from the desktop layout.... aesthetically this can be done using css but switching the actual menus items becomes so much more difficult... and certainly not a job for a noob or non coder...
  
  Originally Posted by Barry Unruh
  
  Does JumpMobi fall into that category?
  
  Correct, the JumpMobi Inspire Theme for WordPress is a also a true Adaptive/RESS theme as like Google it automatically shows different layouts optimized for different user agents when detected, as to is WP Touch although this approach is done via a plugin and "virtually" switches themes. As mentioned this approach isn't new JumpMobi Inspire was originally released with these type of features late 2011 and WP Touch has been around since 2008 I believe...
  
  See screenshot examples of our adaptive approach (NOTE we still use the same url like a responsive site but present a mobile friendly site like its a standalone mobile site):
  
  Using desktop user-agent displays regular desktop theme - http://screencast.com/t/qk1lwJ7kI
  
  Using iphone user agent it switches to our mobile theme: http://screencast.com/t/lD4xqCoS
  
  Which in turn the mobile theme automatically changes its HTML layout when for example it detects an older blackberry 8x series useragent: http://screencast.com/t/DbeaMNglGZH
  
  Hope that makes sense!
  
  Cheers,
  
  Jay
  
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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

In summary this approach allows for much more creativity for you as a developer/designer - it's like a breath of fresh air you become less restricted on what you can and cant do and are not limiting yourself to necessarily building the leanest desktop version of a site just because you want it to work well on a mobile device...

You have that freedom again to set yourself apart from your peers and stop making your sites look the same as every other responsive site - but this can ONLY happen though once you get out of the mindset of the "responsive site v mobile stand alone site" debate!

Think Responsive on Steroids - think Responsive Plus!

It's not for all but i hope it opens some peoples mindsets to what's available...

Cheers,

Jay

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jay Moreno

You have that freedom again to set yourself apart from your peers and stop making your sites look the same as every other responsive site - but this can ONLY happen though once you get out of the mindset of the "responsive site v mobile stand alone site" debate!

Jay thanks for the comments.. So lets dig a little deeper into this subject. As I have stated before Foundation would be my preference right now for a web programming platform. It does all of these sweet things you talk about ( except better ). there is some pretty freakin cool grid / adaptive code out there that displays a site dependent on the device used. The last I looked.. ( the number changes a lot ) there are 168 different devices out there in the world.

Some cool data on the subject since we are here. Your average American household right now has 10 connectable devices. There are actually speculations that the number will drive to 40+ by 2050. So as techy and boring as this discussion may be to some.. this is BIG FREAKIN STUFF.

So basically what happens is you develop a site. Within the site there are parameters that determine how to display your site to whatever device connects to it. Your site is no longer static it is full on dynamic. Again great stuff if you are serving from the Foundation platform. But what happens down at wordpress? There is the ability to build in foundation and convert to Wordpress. From the Geek Dev level there is a handful of issues doing this.. but they can all be resolved.

Here is where things start to get interesting... by doing the conversion you lose some of the control. you are now left only controlling zones ( header, Sidebar, Body, Footer ) and no longer have the ability to control elements. OK so what specifically do I mean here... lets say you have a opt-in form in a side bar. Its great to be there on a desktop site.. not so great on mobile.

In Wordpress they display the zones in order. #1 is Header #2 is body #3 is sidebar #4 is footer ( from left to right ) The issue is in Mobile now your ALL MIGHTY opt-in form is 2/3 of the way down the page. Kinda sucks.

So the better than average thinking is that side bars carry little to no value.. so lets just remove them with mobile display. Actually pretty easy to do.. just a touch of code. The only issue is the Opt-in form is now bye bye. So we go from poorly placed opt-in to none at all. Back over on the adaptive site.. well I can remove the side bar and place the opt-in right below the header as an example. ( about 8 clicks and a few lines of code )

At this point it is clear that wordpress... well sucks. and yes it does suck... BUT its easy ( and what did I say earlier about easy? ) so the options become having 2 sites. you call it adaptive/RESS and I would cry BS on that one, sorry. you are simply using a plugin for a redirect ( I code my own redirect using javascript - no need for a plugin )

Adaptive/RESS is NOT having 2 separate themes.. that just kind of blows the whole premise of the idea to start with. You are throwing in some terms to hide the fact you are developing a Responsive site for desktop and Tablet, and then redirecting to a mobile site for mobile ( phones ) You have not ended the dabate with this.. you simply have added an additional argument for the need to have 2 sites.

Step outside the realm of Wordpress..and all the sudden the ideals of Adaptive/RESS are more than valid.. they have become a way of life for most devs

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

You are throwing in some terms to hide the fact you are developing a Responsive site for desktop and Tablet, and then redirecting to a mobile site for mobile ( phones )

Sorry, but we don't redirect to a separate mobile site - I would simply not advocate that unless it was a last resort or simply a business model, it's just not an efficient working model.

Sometimes we may redirect a mobile visitor to a different page, but this is typically due to issues/limitations of the existing desktop theme - but this is far from developing two different sites....

With our latest approach there needs not be any redirects to a second site... everything is served dynamically under one site, no separate urls, no sub domains, or top level domains... for the most part it's the same page content served conditionally with different HTML/CSS optimized for the user agent that's being detected all on a single WordPress install.

For me, addressing the issue you had mentioned regarding the sidebar opt in form - this would be no more difficult than copying or pasting a short code whereever you want your opt in form to be positioned.

I invite you if you are interested to Skype me as i would like to discuss more about Foundation and your own design approach, perhaps I can explain better our approach too to find some common ground.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Jay,

First let me say that you provide a pretty cool service for the wordpress/Joomla community. you have without question pushed some of the limits within wordpress. but to say "Adaptive" is a bit hmmm well you will see. so lets cut to the chase and use your site as an example and compare it with a Foundation based site.

So here on the top of the page is a nice 4 column display on Desktop: https://www.jumpmobi.com/wordpress-m...-mobile-theme/ If we grab the corner of our browser tab and start replicating Tablet to mobile we will see at the point this page breaks the 4 columns become 1. This by no means is "Adaptive", this is what we expect Wordpress to do.

So now we will look at this: The Grid - Foundation for RapidWeaver and do a small scroll to the example section. 2 rows spread out between 12 columns. again if we grab the corner of our browser tab and start replicating tablet to mobile we will see at the breaking point something very different than the 1 column break. Here you will see at break it will display in 3 rows. ( There happens to be a great video on this page that explains the grid system, and how this works ) This is CLEARLY adapting to screen size, and not just being 2 setting responsive.

The product you have is great stuff. I am not here to beat it up in any way shape or form. you literally are pushing the limits within the platform you are working with. I think that's awesome! I have not done so here ( WF ), but I have suggested your theme to others. I really like the one page Parrallax feel of your theme - tho it is multi page. that's just cool in of itself.

I will even take this a step further and say PM me if you are interested in providing a write up of your product and I will display it on a site I have that will place you right in front of 30,000 a month uniques in your exact target market.

Originally Posted by Jay Moreno

Sorry, but we don't redirect to a separate mobile site - I would simply not advocate that unless it was a last resort or simply a business model, it's just not an efficient working model.

Sometimes we may redirect a mobile visitor to a different page, but this is typically due to issues/limitations of the existing desktop theme - but this is far from developing two different sites....

With our latest approach there needs not be any redirects to a second site... everything is served dynamically under one site, no separate urls, no sub domains, or top level domains... for the most part it's the same page content served conditionally with different HTML/CSS optimized for the user agent that's being detected all on a single WordPress install.

For me, addressing the issue you had mentioned regarding the sidebar opt in form - this would be no more difficult than copying or pasting a short code whereever you want your opt in form to be positioned.

I invite you if you are interested to Skype me as i would like to discuss more about Foundation and your own design approach, perhaps I can explain better our approach too to find some common ground.

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

So here on the top of the page is a nice 4 column display on Desktop: https://www.jumpmobi.com/wordpress-m...-mobile-theme/ If we grab the corner of our browser tab and start replicating Tablet to mobile we will see at the point this page breaks the 4 columns become 1. This by no means is "Adaptive", this is what we expect Wordpress to do.

I'm curious. Did you do this all on a desktop browser, or you looked at in on both a desktop and your mobile devices?

I get a complete different looking page when I view on my phone and tablet than I do resizing a desktop browser.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

I'm curious. Did you do this all on a desktop browser, or you looked at in on both a desktop and your mobile devices?

I get a complete different looking page when I view on my phone and tablet than I do resizing a desktop browser.

I am trying my best here to be as polite and respectful as possible.. All I can say is look at the URL on your mobile device. its not the same URL. you have been redirected to the "Mobile" folder.

unless there is a "trick" I am unaware of when you display pages within Wordpress from another folder.. Wordpress has to be installed in that "other/mobile" folder. IE a second website.

The above examples were to show the difference between on page "Adaptive" vs as you are pointing out redirection.. and they simply by no means are the same thing.

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am trying my best here to be as polite and respectful as possible.. All I can say is look at the URL on your mobile device. its not the same URL. you have been redirected to the "Mobile" folder.

unless there is a "trick" I am unaware of when you display pages within Wordpress from another folder.. Wordpress has to be installed in that "other/mobile" folder. IE a second website.

The above examples were to show the difference between on page "Adaptive" vs as you are pointing out redirection.. and they simply by no means are the same thing.

Am a little embarrassed to say our own site isn't necessarily a good example of showing you how we use our site in an adaptive manner... while we have been busy on other things we haven't really updated our own site since we first launched back in 2012 but saying that i can see what you say, so will update it to include a better of example of how our approach is adaptive.

What you where seeing is a redirect - however the redirect in this instance and back then was because we didn't have the knowledge and tools at our hands as we do now... our approach for development is much different now but is still done with the original theme...

I will demonstrate shortly with a video after i have updated the page... didn't want to be updating my site today! But it's about time i guess! So thanks for the kick up the butt! LOL

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

Did the video using Jing so as to keep it short (max 5mins) but its taking forever to upload - even with a 200/50mb connection! Will post it when done

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

Ended up having to redo the video in Camtasia - it killed my Jing! lol

Hope this helps better explain how we enhance and compliment our responsive sites with an adaptive/ress approach to mobile web design using WordPress

Different Approaches to Mobile Web Design -...

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savidge4 9 years ago

There is more to this than meets the eye that is for sure. I did have a rather lengthy discussion with Jay in regards to his product. I have agreed to spend some time really looking at it, and hopefully by Monday or so I will report back my findings for sure.

There is without question 2 themes loaded, but only one active. and then the plugin is manipulating the code accordingly dependent on the device that is used to view the site.

I will be honest at this point a lot less skeptical but not out of the woods yet! LOL again I will let you all know what I think.

to be continued...
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infotechsolwin

9 years ago

Mobile site and desktop site's web page is fix design when resolution change site like ugly and this way users are not want to visit site but fully responsive site all resolution (tablet, smartphone, etc.) open properly.

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Even though I have hit the "Thanks" button a bunch of times in this thread, I want to go one step further and express my sincere gratitude to Savidge4 and Jay Moreno for their long, thoughtful, and time-consuming posts.

There is an amazing education in this thread if you take time to read..

My hat's off guys!

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Joe J

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

Even though I have hit the "Thanks" button a bunch of times in this thread, I want to go one step further and express my sincere gratitude to Savidge4 and Jay Moreno for their long, thoughtful, and time-consuming posts.

There is an amazing education in this thread if you take time to read..

My hat's off guys!

I second that Barry!

Although I had nothing here to contribute, I learned a whole lot.

Thanks Much, Jay and Savidge4!

Thank You also Barry for having enough interest to letting this great informative post to play out.

Joe

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Jay Moreno

9 years ago

Thought i would share this - was posted on Marketing Land last month, shares the same sentiments and actually explains better what i was trying to say!

Is Google's Mobilegeddon Scaring Website Owners Into Bad Design Decisions?

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richasharma

9 years ago

the main benefit is that if u make responsive website then ur website will b there for mobile and for desktop users and otherwise u have to make different websites for mobile and for desktops. this will increase the time of management as both have to b managed differently.

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Barry Unruh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by richasharma

the main benefit is that if u make responsive website then ur website will b there for mobile and for desktop users and otherwise u have to make different websites for mobile and for desktops. this will increase the time of management as both have to b managed differently.

Which goes to prove you did not read this thread. May I suggest you enjoy the education found above?

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Peter Lessard

9 years ago

Originally Posted by qu4rk

I'm putting together a pitch for a couple of clients. I wanted to ask you guys, what do you think the benefits of a responsive site vs. mobile + desktop (with redirect script)?

So qu4rk as you can see this can get really complicated lol
BTW some great info given by all especially savidge4.
Now on to the practical.

The average client will never get into such analysis or understand half of this stuff.
When I discuss this with clients (and this discussion only happens if these are clients at a level that are retaining me for ongoing analysis and return on investment optimization) I tell them we will start with a great responsive design so we can start generating the most results with the least of effort and then we will monitor issues and user behavior and make decisions on developing different experiences based on what we observe.

Of course if it was obvious that the bulk of the desired result would only happen on mobiles with small screens the recommendation would be different, but I am speaking to averages here.

I take this approach because of my software design experience.
When I work with large corporations the study phase alone can involve teams, 6 figure budgets and months and months of time.

On the flip side when I work with SMB's their entire budget from start to finish is less than the study phase budget of my corporate clients so hitting the ground running and adopting as we go with decisions being based on observable needs is critical. Given this reality the average client just needs a best guess plan of attack based on your experience and have a willingness to adapt as lessons are learned.

On a personal note I prefer working with the 2nd group because in this day and age by the time you have completed a prolonged study phase the landscape has often changed.

I guess basically what I am saying is do not over analyze it to death, take the obvious path of least resistance because who would not be developing a responsive site anyway, then go further if there is an obvious need to do so. Clients like simple, sometimes you can explain the most complicated stuff in the world and lose the sale because somebody decided why should we build 2 sites when this other guy says lets just build one lol

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Benefits of a responsive site vs. mobile + desktop site

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