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Bringing on a salesperson...

by Digital Hustle
20 replies
Hey Guys,

I've delayed jumping into offline for some time now because I agonize over the cold-calling aspect. Just not my thing.

So who here's had luck in hiring/partnering with someone to handle the sales end of the business? I'd be handling all the technical work, supplying leads, etc. Everything but the actual dialing.

Any tips/things to look out for?

And lastly, what's a generous commission level? Can I expect to find anyone that will work on commission alone? I have no idea how sales jobs typically work.

Appreciate your help.

Edit: So I pulled the trigger a little too quick. I found some good stuff through search here but I'm not sure how to delete this thread...

Edit: I'll keep it open since some Warriors were kind enough to post up anyway.
#bringing #salesperson
  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Click edit and then it gives you a delete option.
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    • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      Click edit and then it gives you a delete option.
      I must be blind...don't see any option to delete (under edit or edit > advanced). Maybe because of my post count? Since Jason kindly took the time to post up I guess I'll leave the thread be.

      Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Good luck with finding a commission salesperson who sticks.

    Prior to 2008, back in Vancouver, I could do it.

    Since then, especially since 2011, I have not been able to--even with the "help" of online companies who supposedly specialize in doing so.

    OP, if YOU can't sell on your own, no one is going to have faith in you.

    A commission salesperson has to have ultimate confidence in their ability. And when they sense the lack of that in you, they're going to move on. Sorry it seems harsh I know, but it needs to be said.

    You need to be offering at least 50% commission and have a proven sales process & product/service to attract talent. Have you got that?

    What has worked for me in the past 4 years, and this is with the TV show, is hiring an hourly caller to set appointments.

    They get paid their hourly rate and they're happy. We get appointments and we're happy. That is STILL a process and you'll probably have to go through 3 or 4 false starts to find your person.

    So do not think commission salespeople are going to be a panacea. You should have learned that from the thread you found.

    "Cold calling is not for me" is typically said by people who know nothing about how to go about it, and have no skill with it. This is an education thing: who talks about it? Well, we do in this subforum.

    Couple good starting points:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...click-see.html

    and

    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...t-selling.html

    As an owner, you really need to learn how to sell.

    It's your job to bring in new sources of supply, new customers, new distribution channels. Not to provide technical expertise. This is an idea I've struggled with myself, wanting to do all the creative work because my clients are hiring "me", my approach...but I have to get used to the idea of an employee or sub doing 70% of what I do, and that under my leadership being good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
      Jason, appreciate the reply...

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      OP, if YOU can't sell on your own, no one is going to have faith in you.

      A commission salesperson has to have ultimate confidence in their ability. And when they sense the lack of that in you, they're going to move on. Sorry it seems harsh I know, but it needs to be said.
      That makes sense...what do you think about a "partnership" type arrangement? Being totally upfront about the fact that I'm no salesman, but I do awesome work. Hence I need someone to handle the sales end and we can split 50/50, etc. Might be a longshot, but I could see that working.

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      You need to be offering at least 50% commission and have a proven sales process & product/service to attract talent. Have you got that?
      50% commission is no problem. I read in one of the other threads that $500 commission per sale would be the minimum for someone to get excited about. So at minimum I need a $1,000+ front-end offer. I'd end up actually making less than the salesperson in the end, but I guess you have to start somewhere.

      Also, I'm confident in being able to deliver on the product/service end.

      As for a proven sales process, well, I'm quite capable of doing the research and putting together a sales process based on what other people have had success with. I purchased a popular offline WSO here that I could model, but I really don't know how much of it is just theory. The real nitty-gritty details seem to be missing...or more likely I'm just overthinking things.

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      What has worked for me in the past 4 years, and this is with the TV show, is hiring an hourly caller to set appointments.

      They get paid their hourly rate and they're happy. We get appointments and we're happy. That is STILL a process and you'll probably have to go through 3 or 4 false starts to find your person.

      So do not think commission salespeople are going to be a panacea. You should have learned that from the thread you found.
      Thanks, I'll check that out.

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      "Cold calling is not for me" is typically said by people who know nothing about how to go about it, and have no skill with it. This is an education thing: who talks about it? Well, we do in this subforum.
      You're right, I have zero sales skills...combined with that I'm extremely introverted. I've done hours and hours of research on cold-calling here on the forum. Even gone as far as to write up an entire page-long script with a flow-diagram of what possibly to say for different responses, etc. Most of the material is based off of your posts, so thank you for that Jason.

      But pulling the trigger has been a different story, I'm have tremendous trouble "manning up" and knocking out some calls. Hiring/partnering up with someone to handle this seemed like an easy way out.

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      As an owner, you really need to learn how to sell.

      It's your job to bring in new sources of supply, new customers, new distribution channels. Not to provide technical expertise. This is an idea I've struggled with myself, wanting to do all the creative work because my clients are hiring "me", my approach...but I have to get used to the idea of an employee or sub doing 70% of what I do, and that under my leadership being good.
      I can see how this totally makes sense, and I can see myself getting to that point eventually. Heck I'd be fine doing nothing but "managing" eventually. It's just that as I said, what's standing in my way right now is getting sales and well, this seemed like an alternative that would alleviate my anxiety, lol. I know once I got rolling I could make it work.

      Man, the more I think about this the more obvious it is that I just need to man up and make it happen. Do they make a magic pill to lower your inhibitions without hindering your function? lol.

      I appreciate your input Jason, don't apologize for being harsh. I can't ignore the truth if I'm going to make this happen, so keep it comin'...

      Thanks!
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

        That makes sense...what do you think about a "partnership" type arrangement? Being totally upfront about the fact that I'm no salesman, but I do awesome work. Hence I need someone to handle the sales end and we can split 50/50, etc. Might be a longshot, but I could see that working.

        50% commission is no problem.

        Also, I'm confident in being able to deliver on the product/service end.

        As for a proven sales process, well, I'm quite capable of doing the research and putting together a sales process based on what other people have had success with.

        I purchased a popular offline WSO here that I could model, but I really don't know how much of it is just theory. The real nitty-gritty details seem to be missing...or more likely I'm just overthinking things.

        You're right, I have zero sales skills...combined with that I'm extremely introverted. I've done hours and hours of research on cold-calling here on the forum. Even gone as far as to write up an entire page-long script with a flow-diagram of what possibly to say for different responses, etc. Most of the material is based off of your posts, so thank you for that Jason.

        But pulling the trigger has been a different story, I'm have tremendous trouble "manning up" and knocking out some calls. Hiring/partnering up with someone to handle this seemed like an easy way out.

        I can see how this totally makes sense, and I can see myself getting to that point eventually. Heck I'd be fine doing nothing but "managing" eventually. It's just that as I said, what's standing in my way right now is getting sales and well, this seemed like an alternative that would alleviate my anxiety, lol. I know once I got rolling I could make it work.

        Man, the more I think about this the more obvious it is that I just need to man up and make it happen. Do they make a magic pill to lower your inhibitions without hindering your function? lol.
        With farming out a 50 / 50 love me do, love me not, you sell me make relationship, really says your not just quite ready to be the boss so / based on what you have said so far it may be better that you just work for a company doing what your good at for now until you have learnt more.

        There is no such thing as you need to give 50% commission, as this amount will vary from product to product, volume, up sells and many other factors, and if your giving away 50% just because it was written on the pages of giggle.coms then above really does apply.

        Writing up a theory of what might happen in a sales flow, based on some WSO probably will have as many legs as a snake, it can take a long time and hard work to develop a good flow / presentation, unless you strike it lucky of which is doubtful.

        If it really is a path you wish to follow, there are a few people here who have a good WSO on the subject, but take them all if you wish and just use the parts that work best for you, and or most local councils have free small business support and training as a option for you to further develop your skills.
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          If you don't want to cold call, then don't. there are plenty of alternatives.

          I'm a fan of JVs for quickly building your business - the link in my sig is to a blog entry that will cost you a whole £0 with a lifetime money back guarantee and no upsells, cross sells, nothing further to buy...

          I built my SEM business by referrals and networking. Not the likes of BNI, but just getting out there and meeting business people and being proactive about referrals. Regularly take someone out for lunch or coffee, without trying to sell them anything. It's easier to sell someone on a free lunch/coffee than a website And when you come to sell a website, it's a far easier sale, when they already know you.

          Focus the majority of your marketing efforts on the influencers in your community. Traditional influencers might be accountants, lawyers, financial advisors. Not so traditional might be the head of CofC, committee members, people active in the business community. We had a guy organise a protest against car parking charges. He'd be a good choice because he's shown he has influence and reach. Other influencers are not so obvious. The secretarial service we did a JV with was a hidden influencer. She had a reputation for being a go-to person to find people and solve problems. A freelance concierge if you like. So she had immense influence and when she endorsed someone, people took notice... These are the people you should focus your attention on...

          Cold calling is time consuming and inefficient. No matter how good you get at it, you're still only reach one person at a time. And the quality of client tends to be low.

          Spend the same amount of time getting good at JVs and you reach many people in the same amount of time. You come across as less desperate and the quality of client tends to be higher.
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            just getting out there and meeting business people and being proactive about referrals. Regularly take someone out for lunch or coffee, without trying to sell them anything. It's easier to sell someone on a free lunch/coffee than a website And when you come to sell a website, it's a far easier sale, when they already know you.
            If someone can't pull the trigger to make a few phone calls, why is it going to be any easier for him to call up business people in his community to take them out for lunch and coffee?

            The reality is he MUST start taking action and overcome those fears before either your ideas or cold calling can work.

            Ideally you want to use a combination of local contacts and other marketing, be it cold calling, email, social media, etc..

            But irregardless, you will be talking to people on the phone, and the fear of doing that MUST be overcome.
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

              If someone can't pull the trigger to make a few phone calls, why is it going to be any easier for him to call up business people in his community to take them out for lunch and coffee?
              No need to cold call. Go along to networking, CofC or similar. Nothing more natural than asking someone you've just met out for coffee or lunch. Many people don't like talking to strangers on the phone, but are just fine talking in person. Few people have issues calling people they already know...

              And if OP is smart they'll concentrate on the influencers, those that have lots of connections, so subsequent JVs or referrals are more effective.

              When I was going to networking meetings, I'd wear a T-Shirt with a slogan which just begged people to come up to me and ask me about it. Even if I initiated the contact, it was still a talking point - no cold calling!

              I suggested this to an associate: He went through his CofC, starting with the President and reviewed all the websites. Those with faults or not mobile optimised he created a mockup of a responsive site. He used a free wordpress theme to start. He then attended the CofC meeting and in a conversation with the president showed him the all new improved mockup. The President gave him the job more or less on the spot. He then followed that up with a suggestion of an offer to the entire CofC. That was 18 months or more ago. He's been busy ever since - no cold calling!

              I'm currently working with an amazing lady. She's setting up a simple business service and lets just say she's well past the first flush of youth. Still, she's game and willing to learn this new fangled webby stuff. We've used cold emails to contact likely businesses. We didn't scrape random addresses. We did a bit of research and targeted just 53 emails. The results are 22 (just checked) signed up to autoresponder, 12 telephone enquiries as of Friday, and four sales as of Friday. We just started this 6 weeks ago. - no cold calling!

              There are more examples I could give, but I need to be gone now...
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            • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
              Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

              If someone can't pull the trigger to make a few phone calls, why is it going to be any easier for him to call up business people in his community to take them out for lunch and coffee?

              The reality is he MUST start taking action and overcome those fears before either your ideas or cold calling can work.

              Ideally you want to use a combination of local contacts and other marketing, be it cold calling, email, social media, etc..

              But irregardless, you will be talking to people on the phone, and the fear of doing that MUST be overcome.
              Word Barry.

              Maybe not the case for everyone, but in my case that's on the same level as cold-calling. Just as far out of my comfort zone.

              Thanks for the nudge!
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          • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            If you don't want to cold call, then don't. there are plenty of alternatives.

            I'm a fan of JVs for quickly building your business - the link in my sig is to a blog entry that will cost you a whole £0 with a lifetime money back guarantee and no upsells, cross sells, nothing further to buy...
            Afraid I can't see any signatures yet. Must be my post count. But thanks for the offer! Lol.

            Cold calling just seems like the quickest, most direct way to start seeing results (assuming you can pick up the phone). Not to discount your JV suggestion, but I don't think that's any more for me than making cold calls. I could see maybe putting that to work down the road, but I'd like to develop a repeatable/scale-able sales process first.

            Thanks.
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

              Afraid I can't see any signatures yet. Must be my post count. But thanks for the offer! Lol.
              Here you go...
              http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/an...d-calling.html

              Not sure why you can't see siggys...

              Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

              Cold calling just seems like the quickest, most direct way to start seeing results (assuming you can pick up the phone). Not to discount your JV suggestion, but I don't think that's any more for me than making cold calls. I could see maybe putting that to work down the road, but I'd like to develop a repeatable/scale-able sales process first.
              Not IMHO.
              You can only ever call one person at a time. Spend the same amount of time on organising a JV and you reach many people...
              I have a tame list of 54,000 people. How long would it take you to call all of them? Typically, I load a sequence on an autoresponder and sit back and watch the money roll in...

              Of course, it's not quite that simple, but the effort put in up front pays huge dividends over the longer term. And it's a lot less effort than one call at a time...

              You could also start by approaching people you already know, who you already have a relationship. People you already do business with. Go through and make a list of friends family, businesses you already buy from, who might know you.

              Look especially for those who have reach and influence. Accountants, Lawyers, Financial Advisors are maybe more traditional influencers. Head of CofC, committee members or that business guy who organised a protest against parking charges (a local issue where I live). They're perhaps less obvious, but they clearly are known and would know lots of business owners. There are some much less obvious ones, but they're harder to find. Just keep an eye out for any future clients who appear to know a lot of business people. If you focus your efforts on these type of people then you'll get a lot of JV potential.

              A simple beginners JV would be to do a report or video or similar, or even a combination report plus video. Something that's valuable to your JV partner and their clients in itself.

              An example might be the announcement from G earlier this year that websites that were not optimised for mobile might have their ranking affected. Or it might be something more timeless, like the value of a website, or how SEO works and why it's needed. All done in non geek, plain business owner english

              Offer this to your potential JV partner to send to his customers as a free gift and suddenly your name is in front of all their clients... If there's a pain point in there, you'll almost certainly get calls...

              And that's far more efficient and effective than cold calling random business owners...

              Edit: Another one.
              Look for the biggest web developers, the ones charging 20k + for websites and approach them and ask them to send anyone your way who doesn't have their sort of budget. If you got 3 or 4 of these sending you a few prospects each week, that'd keep you busy...

              And this has the added advantage if the price they've been quoted is 20k, then your 2k price would seem cheap :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
        Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post


        You're right, I have zero sales skills...combined with that I'm extremely introverted. I've done hours and hours of research on cold-calling here on the forum. Even gone as far as to write up an entire page-long script with a flow-diagram of what possibly to say for different responses, etc. Most of the material is based off of your posts, so thank you for that Jason.

        But pulling the trigger has been a different story, I'm have tremendous trouble "manning up" and knocking out some calls. Hiring/partnering up with someone to handle this seemed like an easy way out.
        I'm a fan of a very simple rule: the owner/originator/founder/whatever of a startup should be the one to generate the first 25 sales. Period. No way around this.

        Here's why:

        1. It will take significant effort to get skilled-up to build a sales process, execute that process, and do it consistently over some period of time. No one can or should just do this for you, you should not ever expect that this knowledge will just magically appear, or should you simply ignore the importance and value in figuring out something as simple as getting over the fear of picking up the phone to make a prospecting call.

        2. That first step will be what sets the business up for success IMO. You can't just buy a sales process, you as the owner of the business need to develop and implement that sales process.

        3. Implement (replicate) what you've learned and been successful at with those you attract and offer a commission-based opportunity to join YOU and take part in that sales process that is already generating revenue.

        4. JV's/Partnerships? Yes! Absolutely! But I believe that you will be in a FAR BETTER position to develop those JV's and other partnerships with existing businesses if you already have a sales process working because those potential partners will likely want to see you as generating revenue.

        I'm sure there's lots of examples that discount this above, no doubt about it and I won't argue with those that offer them as proof you can do it otherwise. This is just my own experience.

        Best wishes!
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        • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
          Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc View Post

          I'm a fan of a very simple rule: the owner/originator/founder/whatever of a startup should be the one to generate the first 25 sales. Period. No way around this.
          I think this is something I also believe inside, but it doesn't make the action any easier for me. Haha.

          Partnering up with a salesperson seemed like an easy way out. And I think it still is, but finding the right person is the hard part. Seems like you'd have to find someone that has no experience but is extremely ambitious and comfortable on the phones.

          Appreciate the reply.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    WHY are you wanting to jump in? Have you given any thought to the idea there might be a better biz model for you to follow?

    Sounds as if you have fallen for someone's "hype"...quit being in agony, it hurts me to know this (very empathetic and vicarious being).

    gjabiz


    Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

    Hey Guys,

    I've delayed jumping into offline for some time now because I agonize over the cold-calling aspect. Just not my thing.

    So who here's had luck in hiring/partnering with someone to handle the sales end of the business? I'd be handling all the technical work, supplying leads, etc. Everything but the actual dialing.

    Any tips/things to look out for?

    And lastly, what's a generous commission level? Can I expect to find anyone that will work on commission alone? I have no idea how sales jobs typically work.

    Appreciate your help.

    Edit: So I pulled the trigger a little too quick. I found some good stuff through search here but I'm not sure how to delete this thread...
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    • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      WHY are you wanting to jump in? Have you given any thought to the idea there might be a better biz model for you to follow?

      Sounds as if you have fallen for someone's "hype"...quit being in agony, it hurts me to know this (very empathetic and vicarious being).

      gjabiz
      Hey gjabiz,

      I'm open to other business models. My real passion is software and I love the SaaS model, I just haven't been able to come up anything that's taken off...yet. I'll get there eventually. In the meantime I need to keep the lights on.

      I've done a lot of freelance "web" work in the past. All clients I met online, though. And mostly through word of mouth.

      Offline marketing as it's referred to here (selling websites/marketing/etc.) seemed like the logical next step for me to take advantage of my existing skills while making a lot better living.

      Offline marketing is just something that makes good sense to me. All businesses should have a website, right? As such, I have high faith in it working (when I finally get the ball rolling).

      Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
        Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

        Hey gjabiz,

        I'm open to other business models. My real passion is software and I love the SaaS model, I just haven't been able to come up anything that's taken off...yet. I'll get there eventually. In the meantime I need to keep the lights on.

        I've done a lot of freelance "web" work in the past. All clients I met online, though. And mostly through word of mouth.

        Offline marketing as it's referred to here (selling websites/marketing/etc.) seemed like the logical next step for me to take advantage of my existing skills while making a lot better living.

        Offline marketing is just something that makes good sense to me. All businesses should have a website, right? As such, I have high faith in it working (when I finally get the ball rolling).

        Thanks.

        Do you have an existing SaaS product yet?
        Do you have at least a mock-up or quasi-functional service yet?

        If you are just working with an idea then it might be tough going, but if you have something functional then it may be worth it to just start introducing whatever version you have up and running.

        There's certainly some validity in simply start prospecting for business even if you do not have a fully functional SaaS (at least the way you envision the completed version). I'm not so sure if simply promoting an idea is a good approach, at minimum have a site up with the main features functioning --- this will allow you to rapidly bring something to the marketplace and test your idea(s) at minimum and after a small amount of time you will be able to gauge the effort required to go full in.
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        • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
          Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc View Post

          Do you have an existing SaaS product yet?
          Do you have at least a mock-up or quasi-functional service yet?

          If you are just working with an idea then it might be tough going, but if you have something functional then it may be worth it to just start introducing whatever version you have up and running.

          There's certainly some validity in simply start prospecting for business even if you do not have a fully functional SaaS (at least the way you envision the completed version). I'm not so sure if simply promoting an idea is a good approach, at minimum have a site up with the main features functioning --- this will allow you to rapidly bring something to the marketplace and test your idea(s) at minimum and after a small amount of time you will be able to gauge the effort required to go full in.
          I'm not looking to push a SaaS product over the phones. That was in response to what someone else mentioned about there being other models besides this whole offline marketing thing (at least that's the way I took it).

          Thanks for the suggestions. I recently started educating myself more on customer development, creating an MVP, etc. though. There's good information out there.

          Looking to utilize my skills in web to make some extra $$$ selling website/marketing packages to local businesses was the purpose behind me bringing on a salesperson...

          Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
            Originally Posted by Digital Hustle View Post

            Looking to utilize my skills in web to make some extra $$$ selling website/marketing packages to local businesses was the purpose behind me bringing on a salesperson...
            Then aren't you using the wrong skills? I'm not exactly sure what "skills in web" is, but I assume you mean some kind of website designer/builder/developer --- in which case, that's the wrong skill set.

            You have no skill on how to sell and then you intend to sell to local businesses that get hammered each day with TONS of guys with "web skills" wanting their business. Does this sound like something you will be able to be successful at?

            Here's where I'd start.... Write a paragraph that takes 20 seconds to speak out loud that:

            1. Mentions a problem that is usually found within those businesses that is related to whatever solution you bring with your "web skills".
            2. Define what your solution is.
            3. Determine interest level.

            "Jon, I've had success helping <business type> overcome <typical problem found in business type> by <your solution>. Might be a good idea to speak with me for a minute."

            Now you've just separated yourself from the Frillion other "web developers" that have been incessantly calling up these local business owners, pissing them off because they don't even understand how a "web developer" can make them money.

            There's detail left out above on purpose because I have no idea what you bring to the table. This is something you'll have to figure out.

            If you're focused on the JV thing, then I'd tailor my pitch to businesses that service your typical customer. If you are a web developer, then I'd try calling commercial printers for example. I'd look to find printers that offer basic traditional printing services (that's a dying business model over the long-term), but they are well connected with the local level business community.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gmoney1031
    This is the first post I decided to respond to after lurking around for a couple weeks.

    I see nothing wrong with you considering a partnership with someone who brings a skill set to the
    party that you do not have.
    I have a strong sales background and would love to talk with you to see if this is something that makes sense for us both.
    I have sent you a PM but not sure you will receive as this is my first post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
      Originally Posted by Gmoney1031 View Post

      This is the first post I decided to respond to after lurking around for a couple weeks.

      I see nothing wrong with you considering a partnership with someone who brings a skill set to the
      party that you do not have.
      I have a strong sales background and would love to talk with you to see if this is something that makes sense for us both.
      I have sent you a PM but not sure you will receive as this is my first post.
      Responded to your PM. Thanks.
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