Am Making Some Money, Is It Scalable?

Target and qualify for better clients.

You can definitely find better web design & brochure clients. How much do you think a corporate annual report costs? And a corporate website?

I'm not saying you should jump from Level 2 to Level 10 in one go--or that it's even possible. But what about a move up from Level 2 to Level 4 or 5?

What do those business look like?

Where do they look for help?

What do they value that the businesses you're dealing with now don't, that make your work more valuable?

Can your outsources keep up with the new level of quality?

Either you must increase flow-through, which may mean increase capacity, at the level you're at...or raise your prices and get a better level of client. And they are out there, all around you, right now. You've simply trained yourself not to see them.

To create a saleable product, you need systems. Systems for bringing in leads, qualifying them, closing them, and fulfilling the projects. There has to be a stable history of revenue for several years.

Jason beat me to it... and said it better than I might have. Bottom line.... More clients with more money and in many cases more challenging requirements... and more outsources with significantly better skills.

Hello Tommy

I generally like Jason Kanigan's posts but I don't think he really answered your question, or that I would even agree with him in regard to your particular situation. Plus he's a Yankee to boot, lol, so I'll give you some homegrown advice.

To qualify myself first, we are a fairly large player in the Offline market here in the UK. Our Business's turned over nearly £14 Million in 2015, around £11 Million of that from Offline Marketing and the balance from Affiliate Marketing. Most of that turnover is from small to medium size Business's though we do have 8 larger Business's who are on £10,000 per month /12 month contracts for full Marketing Services. We currently have 67 staff members, 37 young women who work at our headquarters over 3 daily shifts, 14 sales people throughout the UK and 16 full time employees from India, Phillipines and Romania. We operate 24 hours a day 7 days per week. Our overseas staff have Uni qualifications in website design, graphic design and so on, so both creative and technical skills, so carry out the more complex tasks. Our staff here are home trained but also very professional and can fullfil a large number of services. We also have 2 shift supervisors who we have trained in all aspects of our Business's, so we are very confident that we can leave our Business's running in very capable hands whenever necessary.

As a startup you can obviously not duplicate our structure, it takes time to build a Business. My Dad an I started our Business 13 years ago an worked 16 hours or more per day for 2 years before we got our first full time employee, who is now one of our Supervisors. We still usually work 16 hour days alongside our staff, but by choice now and over a 5 day working week. You do have to put the time in when you are building a Business, especially if you want to build a large Business. Anyone who tells you different is in lala land!

Now I think you seem more concerned with the time you need to spend micro managing your Outsourcers, you say they are technical but not creative. You seem comfortable in the actual Sales/Marketing part of your Business.

So my advice would be to get yourself your first full time, fully qualified staff member, preferably from the Phillipines. There are Companies that can help you find qualified staff. Then as you build sales you build your staff base.

As far as expanding into SEO, that is a very specialized field, we don't even do that ourselves, we use white labeled services from Companies in the US who specialize in that field. The SEO Serrvices are white labeled under your brand, you do the sales and add your markup or take your commision. Would advise you to do the same.

As far as Jason's suggestion that you aim for "a better level of client" who can obviously pay much more for your services - well it's not as easy as that in my opinion. To start with not as many of them compared to S&M Business's, and much harder to break into unless you have the contacts and referrals. When we decided to offer a full marketing service to reasonably large Business's we put our most experienced sales person on the job, but after 3 months of trying he had nil to show for his efforts. He was finding it next to impossible to get appointments with the decision makers. Then horror of horrors, my Dad told me to see what I could do. I'm no salesperson an was terrified at the thought, but I came up with a very devious female plan an successfuly signed up every Business we targetted. It is a funny story if you want to hear it. Also as a one person Business relying on a few outsourcers who have to be micro managed, you are really not set up to cater to the demands an time restraints that come with servicing large Business's.
Cheers
Lindy

Maybe something that can be delivered quickly and is cost effective to all businesses…

First, you need to prove your business can help them add profit to the bottom line. Next, to do business with a new business owner they need to first like, know then trust you.

Maybe to start ask the local business how do they track their advertising? If they don’t know what is making them profit then explain you need to track, measure then manage all advertising used to add profit to the bottom line.

As a test let’s track your local business phone number and mark down where the leads are coming from…How do we track the phone number? Easily, after we have completed the reason for the phone call we ask this…

Can I ask you where you found this phone number?

Some will say from the YP, some will say Yelp, some will say Google, Bing and/or Yahoo…some will say the local newspaper ad…etc. You might be surprised to see where the calls are coming from…You then need to tally up the different sources over a two week period.

Point being you need to track, measure then manage this simple task. It is the business owner’s job to track where the calls are coming from and it is your job to measure then manage the new services that are exposed from this simple test.

Another thought…Search your local market for websites that need help with let’s say sites that look not so good on a mobile device. You “cold call” them then do a live dog and pony show that demonstrates their website on your mobile device…With one quick look they can see they need help and you now have an opportunity to sell a mobile website.

Good Luck,

RR

1-2k/mo isn't a business, it's a hobby.

If you feel your team isn't creative enough for you to be able to scale, then you need a better team.

Your concerns are typical of someone at 10k/mo... not 1-2k/mo.

You have a lot of figuring out to do. Sales, prospecting, marketing, positioning, management, recruiting, system building, etc. when it comes to client work....

Sure, maybe someone in here will pop in with a suggestion of a new direction to head, but all that I mentioned above is required in every business model out there.

Thanks for the replies.
Agree with everything that has been said. But i still don't see how I can expand. It will always involve me in the middle managing the jobs and for sure there is room for expansion, never said there wasn't, but it seems capped.

I wouldnt put one of my clients in touch with a Filipino worker, i see the value I bring to the table, as opposed to my clients going direct to the freelancer, is the ability to organise the ideas, take the clients aims and goals and translate it to the freelancers and direct them. To hire a salesman/or project manager to be the go between would eliminate all profit margin unless i start charging £3000+ for a logo or brochure etc and in a world where people will do pretty much anything for $5 I can't se emyself getting much business that way.

Lindy, your story was impressive, how did you overcome this issue of being able to afford to hire high quality people to manage the job and still have profit margin?

Since I obviously know nothing and can't help you, maybe a look at Ken's story here will help you:

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...half-time.html

Because he's DOING IT...so well, he has truly hit the profit margin wall and is expanding into completely different kinds of businesses.

Get your processes written down. Make them repeatable so you don't have to reinvent the wheel for every single project. Figure out what your "secret sauce" is, and do your best to minimize your involvement to providing whatever that strategic or tactical thing is--the real reason these people hire you--and leave the rest of your time for sales.

Can you extract the "secret sauce" and put it into a philosophy or direction document to show a talented designer who already leans in the art direction you've adopted? That way, they can do say 70% of what you do, and you provide the little bit of direction that is "the difference that makes the difference."

I resisted hiring writers, consultants, etc. for a long time because they couldn't do what I do exactly the way I do it, and that's why my clients hire me--for my point of view. But I realized a year or so ago that 70% of what I do is still pretty awesome. And someone can do most of what I do, the more grunt-y stuff, and then I can come in every so often to keep them on track with what the client hired me for.

I am certain your management time is spent chasing people for this and that...find better ways to accomplish this. What project management software are you using? How do you organize your outsourcers? Do you have written expectations and schedules with firm milestones?

I stick by my original statement: you either have to increase flow-through and likely capacity, or move up to a better level of client for more revenue per project.

And I'm Canadian. I LIVE in the US. And I've taught many UK folks. But thanks, Lindy.

Forgot to mention, Niche Down!

You said you started with engineers who needed brochures. How about niching down to engineering firms that need marketing content?

I know a UK marketer who works with architects. Has more business than he can handle. No need to be everything to everyone...and it sure helps to say, "I only work in this niche."

Hi Lindy,

Thanks for your post again it's helpful. And do take a bit off offence what the other guy is saying. I agree generally speaking 1-2k a month isn't a great deal of money I said so myself. But doubt 80% of the people on here are making over three thousand dollars a month from their 'hobby' and I'm not looking for a no-work easy route so don't even know where he got that idea from.

Lindy has got the question. I'm merely looking to future proof the business plan. It's because I know businesses take a ton of work I want to know that this is able to be adapted so not everything flows through me because that caps the business and I want to build it bigger than that. I probably can handle another 3-4 clients before I've reached capacity in what I can handle solely. Yes I could ask this question then. But I'm asking it now.

Lindy, do you generally get your clients to sign a contract that they are engaging in a consultancy agreement with them and they pay you monthly? At the moment I am more on an ad-hoc agreement. I try and advise them that they need to do X or y and I charge them for doing that job. But generally it's only about 3-400 profit im making on each of these jobs so constantly having to think up new project to convince them they need doing. That isn't the most efficient way I don't think.

Definition: A business is a collection of systems that work without you, the owner, being there.

What Adam is complaining about, without, it seems, knowing (despite "And a "businesses" rather than a job that could be sold or more automated? "), is that he does not have a business but a job.

Tommy, Linsy is right, you've got something that can be turned into a business. If your ego requires that you call it a business right now, do so. But keep in mind that you're doing it for ego reasons. I.e., don't forget to set up the required systems, as IAmNameless and Jason suggested.

IAmNameless is both right and wrong. He's right because, in real life, most earners of $1k a month have a job not a business. He is wrong, because, at least in theory, it's possible to have the $1k a month stream set up in a way that doesn't require constant owner investment. In theory.

You're looking for a business model. You were offered 'hire someone who's self-propelling/managing' and didn't like it. You were offered "hire better people" and you didn't like that, either. The only alternative left is: hire better people at least one of whom is self-propelled/managed.

Or, if you just want more money but not necessarily a business, switch models: be the middle man; you find the clients, vet them a web-design company does the work, you get a cut.

As a reminder: why is McDonald's a business? Why is Ford Motors a business? They set up systems for client acquisition/retention, supply-delivery, product-creation, returns, etc. McDonald's product creation is so good a 16-year old, hormone-propelled boy can work it well while a half-naked woman winks at him!

PS I used to own a real estate appraising business. For the first 3 years I was proud that I was essential to business, that, without me there day in and day out, my crew of 7 could not function properly, that within a couple of weeks to one month, my business would close.

I even appraised my business at $2,200,000 (based on some formulas for revenue times times)!

But, it was not the business that was worth something: it was me, my daily efforts. I had a heck of a well-paid job and the meanest bosses ever! (I did not let me go once on a 3-day vacation in those 3 years!)

I could do much because I had, in my head, some systems... I found out what that means when, year 4, I took a 1-week vacation! Day 2 of my absence, the guy I left in charge, my best, stopped taking phone calls. Day 3, I started getting calls though I was 3k miles away!

PPS You need systems for growth too.

@Lindy, just curious.. Is "an" British for "and", or just some form of dyslexic typing? I had to reread many of your sentences.

Interestingly, IAmNameless could have helped you tremendously, but it appears that bridge may have been burned down. His guide on building an agency covers a ton of the issues you are discussing.

Hiring a VA can be a good step, but still requires a substantial amount of management, unless you have very clearly defined tasks for building a website, doing SEO, or other work.

Scaling your business will require getting systems in place that alleviate some of your management workload. Whether that is in the form of using Shared Google Docs or a system like Teamwork. (I still get away with Google Docs, but I have a small team.)

If you'd like to chat, hit me up via PM, and we'll talk outside the thread.

I think the key to this is that you need to ensure if you are outsourcing this you are covering your costs and at the end of the day making a set cut for yourself.

I started out so excited about the idea of outsourcing that I left little for myself and ended up undercutting myself sometimes once all the project management, edits and updates were done.

I outsource graphic design services, web development services and some other services to contractors and aim to put a set percentage on top of any work they do, I also negotiate a fair rate to ensure I am getting a good deal too.

The client is happy as they get a one stop shop solution and I am happy as I can just project manage the process.

Biggest piece of advice is ensure you are offering a competitive rate, and covering all your expenses when you outsource. Often I have also not had a good balance and when all the bills have come in it has been a bit of a shock to the system.

It's a balancing act that's for sure

I don't know LindyUK so I won't comment - but here's my experience with "iAmNameLess" for all you lurker entrepreneurs reading along like me :-)

I AM also a one man start up - when I joined Income Bully - I was making less that a few thousand dollars a month… So here’s what it HAS DONE for me :-)

Is iAmNameLess an opinionated ass? - oh hell yeah no doubt...

Does he come off as abrupt and at times rude? - sure sometimes...

iAmNameLess never minces his words - he's allergic to BS and has no tolerance for shoddy work or slackers...

BUT - let me tell you - the guy makes me MONEY...

With all the misinformation online, some intentional and others just rehashing what they read elsewhere, not meaning to do harm, but it does anyway -

iAmNameLess is a breath of fresh air...

He selflessly gives to his mastermind community, hours and hours of his time everyday - a mix of advice, ass kickings, love, props, support, resources, feedback and up to date tested information. He has accurately diagnosed several SEO problems I'd never have figured out alone on my clients sites, no charge - is always available to help and never asks for recognition or any kind of guru status.

He just plain wants to see his students succeed...

Truthfully I've bought into all the big names, their courses and "Guaranteed to build a $100K a month agency by the morning" BS...

It wasn't until I joined Income Bully that I really understood the process well enough to make more than a couple of grand a month doing client SEO (I had no inbound leads, no prospecting system and I was struggling with managing freelancers). I'm not gonna rehash iAmNameLess post above - but getting leads, closing them and fulfilling the service is what ALL of us want to learn...right?

Well, then I suggest you learn from someone that actually does it - iAmNameLess walks the walk and can talk the talk in any room he goes in - irrelevant of the gurus there - and they listen, because his advice makes money...

As soon as I started making real money from iAmNameLess's free advice - I purchased a couple of hours coaching from him...5 mins into the call he 'showed' me where I was leaving $1000's a month on the table, how to get my team together and on the same page as well as make communication easy. How to properly structure lead and deal flow as what to do 'next' then 'next' after that...

Did it work? - Heck Yeah...Im scaling rapidly and not suffering from the same issues as previously... The last creative I had made up for direct mailing - I think his exact words were "Its total Junk - toss it, you know better than this cr@p" and sure - my feelings were hurt a bit… So I sat back down and got to grinding out better copy, more focused on the offer and the customer pain points...and it saved me $1000's in wasted postage and more importantly - TIME!

The result -

The IncomeBully - iAmNameLess - approved “yeah that is a solid money maker" postcard mailing hit mailboxes yesterday - 9 calls, 3 closed, 2 maybe's... $2750 a month recurring SEO - plus a website build for $1500 - so all in all, not a bad DAY for $4250!

I have been writing this post for over 5 hours because my Phone is ringing off the hook again today with more closes and deals pending. What are you up to today?

Im going to break my target goals for the first time this month that iAmNameLess and I set 4 months ago for recurring revenue...

Know what he said? "OK - here's the next steps, scale - do this - now that - here's the problems you will face - here's how you deal with those..."

The cost? Nada, Zip, Free...He likes action takers... He will do anything to help those that want it bad enough to get on it and do it...

Hey look - I haven't even mentioned the mastermind group much - seriously, if you take action, it would be hard not to break $100K a year just from whats shared inside the Skype group…

Honestly - I NEEDED someone that pushes aside feel good hugs and I might hurt your feelings - He knows it will sting a bit when he tells you that your beautiful creation is rubbish ad won’t work - but then PUSHES you to make it great - to make money - to scale - to attack head on the challenges all of us face…

Want real tools and live bullets for your marketing gun? Check out the bully - grow a thicker skin - implement - bank cash…

To Whom It May Concern:

"iAmNameLess" You Sir - Are Fired.

Allegedly - after reading LindyUK posts, you indeed are NOT the most talented consultant I have ever hired. I was mistaken in believing that to this point.

Also - you are too young.

And you drink beer.

And you have ONLY managed to help me scale my business to $40,000 per month in 4 months...

Shame on you - shame on YOU i say...

Sincerely
One Really Upset Client - NOT a happy camper

Dear Miz LindyUK

Please exzept my apologe an I wold jus love to meet bledy luvely people jus like you mor ofen.

I think you r wonderfull an talentid an well - jus simplee awzom.

Pleaze, pleaze PLEAZE tel with me more storiez of your sucksess an manor house an biznisess an menny companies.

It has truely bean wonderfel reeding of yur sucksess.

I wud also luv to heer bout yur fine spotz carz and stuuf.

Its jus so refreshin this days to meat somewon online lik u that jus has no feer of pipple like that dreaded no it all rotter the evil {I shall never agin speak His iAmName}

to me fourever mor he shall jus be MrNoName…

MJ+LindyUK bff's fourevr

LindyUK - will u marre me?

I wold luv to jus liv ina big masnssion houze lik u. U r def initly a prinzess two me an I jus want two bee mor lik yu.

Luv u two the mhoon an bak

Mj

^^^ thats what makes you awesome :-) a sense of humor ^^^

(note the US spelling of humor - instead of the UK humour!)

Heres the IRS's official definition for arguments sake...

Does the time and effort put into the activity indicate an intention to make a profit?
Does the taxpayer depend on income from the activity?
If there are losses, are they due to circumstances beyond the taxpayer’s control or did they occur in the start-up phase of the business?
Has the taxpayer changed methods of operation to improve profitability?
Does the taxpayer or his/her advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business?
Has the taxpayer made a profit in similar activities in the past?
Does the activity make a profit in some years?
Can the taxpayer expect to make a profit in the future from the appreciation of assets used in the activity?

No matter the answers we could glean from the OP's post - and no need to put money on the table - as there are too many variables - but in the US it is more of a slang saying of something unprofitable/unsustainable of "that's not a real business".

I'm not trying to debate the legality of an entity - but focusing more the longevity and intent of such a venture.

I took more of an aversion to the fact that you said "You can not match our Business experience, not that you should, as from your photo I suspect that you are perhaps still in your late 20's, so you are likely going very well for your age an experience." Claims for which you have provided absolutely zero proof or credibility...

Well i HAVE personally built and own 3 multi million dollar companies - all from scratch, with no investors, no funding - just sweat of my brow work (and on this I WILL put my money where my mouth is) and I have never had the privilege of having the advice of a consultant as smart, sharp or savvy as Nathan. Period. Believe me I have paid some big sums to various 'leaders' in the industry. All turned out to be 'book learning' advisors with no real knowledge of how businesses are actually built or scaled...

I like in the trenches guys that are smart, sharp and bulls that charge forward kicking ass on the way (can I say ass on WF?!!)

LOOK: Im a kid from Cornwall England that grew up on a sheep and dairy farm with nothing. I moved to the US with $47, a carton of cigarettes and a return plane ticket...and I went back on vacation when I had a pocket full of cash - riding in first class...

NOW - if you want to get our lawyers together (or as you say - solicitors) to compare tax returns - Id be happy to go that route...say a bet of - the winner buys the loser supper in London at a 5* spot?

If I win - I've always fancied eating at Clos Maggiore...love that french food...

Either way, even if I lose - I come out a winner - as maybe I could even charm you into 'marrie-ing' me anyway ;-)

loving you more than ever
Mj xxxx

Sure am. The women just love the long floppy ears..

I haven't been visiting this forum for five years. I had a brief stint back in 2008, before you joined, then I started visiting regularly since beginning of last year.

You might remember that I never listen to you....

Why would I? I earn more than you. I live in a more expensive home. I own an even more expensive second home. I even have at least one more expensive car than you... Why would I aspire to less than I already have...?

Did you hire the Limey from fiverr...?