How to position yourself as an expert?

by Will Iam 102 replies
This is both an online and an offline marketing question, but I think it really applies to both realms so I'm asking it here. When trying to sell your services or promote your business, how can you effectively position yourself as a winning option and a leader in your industry? If you've ever walked into an establishment to offer services for SEO, web design or some other type of marketer, you probably had to sell yourself one way or another.

You can sell yourself based on your past experiences - "I was the head of marketing at a big company for some time and based on my experience I can get these results for you" but you can also sell them your services based on their actual problems, which requires doing a bit of homework but pays dividends when the prospect realizes that you really understand what problems they face on a daily basis.

What other strategies can you use to sell yourself on the spot to a prospective client? Doing homework or research in their niche works great but is there a better way that I'm missing that could help me show even more credibility? Any ideas or input would be appreciated.
#offline marketing #expert #position
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Write a book.

    Have the best known person in your industry say/write something to the effect that you're awesome. At least have your picture taken with a celebrity in the world of your prospects.

    Publish an article in some magazine your prospects read.

    Originally Posted by Will Iam View Post

    This is both an online and an offline marketing question, but I think it really applies to both realms so I'm asking it here. When trying to sell your services or promote your business, how can you effectively position yourself as a winning option and a leader in your industry? If you've ever walked into an establishment to offer services for SEO, web design or some other type of marketer, you probably had to sell yourself one way or another.

    You can sell yourself based on your past experiences - "I was the head of marketing at a big company for some time and based on my experience I can get these results for you" but you can also sell them your services based on their actual problems, which requires doing a bit of homework but pays dividends when the prospect realizes that you really understand what problems they face on a daily basis.

    What other strategies can you use to sell yourself on the spot to a prospective client? Doing homework or research in their niche works great but is there a better way that I'm missing that could help me show even more credibility? Any ideas or input would be appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    I know this is going to sound strange, but my observation is that many clients don't give a hoot about whether or not you are an expert or a leader in your industry. Instead, they simply want to know whether or not you are competent, reasonably easy to work with and will get the job done on time and within budget.

    Indeed, I once ran a survey in which I was surprised to learn that many respondents strongly preferred to hire someone who was not prominent in the industry or famous because they felt they would get better service that way.

    Does this change your idea of the key question to ask here?

    Marcia Yudkin
    Signature
    Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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    • Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      I know this is going to sound strange, but my observation is that many clients don't give a hoot about whether or not you are an expert or a leader in your industry. Instead, they simply want to know whether or not you are competent, reasonably easy to work with and will get the job done on time and within budget.
      Most of my business has been gotten because the prospect believed I was an expert. When I started, I had no proof that I was competent, could get the job done within budget or anything else. But the prospect always believed I was an expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Your position with the title of expert in your field is not something you can bestow upon yourself, but is awarded to you by those who you have worked for in the past and have now recognised you for the work you have done and they now see you as the leader / expert in your chosen field.

    In short only others can truly judge you, and any self judgement is delusional at best and belongs up there with a good fairy tale.

    In general, most people who sit there and waffle how good they are are mostly full of ....
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      Your position with the title of expert in your field is not something you can bestow upon yourself, but is awarded to you by those who you have worked for in the past and have now recognised you for the work you have done and they now see you as the leader / expert in your chosen field.

      In short only others can truly judge you, and any self judgement is delusional at best and belongs up there with a good fairy tale.

      In general, most people who sit there and waffle how good they are are mostly full of ....
      That's ridiculous. All of it. I became 'The Answer Man of Life' simply by declaring myself to be so. I guess in your mind I should have waited for someone else to bestow the title upon me. Excuse me for trying to shave a few days off the wait.

      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        That's ridiculous. All of it. I became 'The Answer Man of Life' simply by declaring myself to be so. I guess in your mind I should have waited for someone else to bestow the title upon me. Excuse me for trying to shave a few days off the wait.

        Frank
        I think Frank, we are talking about different things, I am saying I can no more run around saying I am an expert in rocket ships, if in fact I have no feckin idea about rocket ships. A nice twist and play on words give you that, and yes we are as we think, but that's not what I think the OP was saying ? just maybe I read that wrong, Have a great day as always.
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        • Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          I think Frank, we are talking about different things, I am saying I can no more run around saying I am an expert in rocket ships, if in fact I have no feckin idea about rocket ships.
          You're right, that would be foolish.

          But if you really are an expert, the quickest way to get known as "The expert" is to declare it yourself.

          And writing a book...even a self published book on Amazon, impresses more people than you think. Now, you're an expert in their mind, without you having to say anything.


          Giving a speech or two for your trade organization (they are always looking for speakers). A TED talk requires no more expertise than a talk in front of your peers. And it impresses those that watch TED talks, a small minority of the population. If you have an academic subject, that's different...a TED talk is useful in positioning you.

          A website that has lots of testimonials, a book (a good book can be written in a week), and making a speech or two in your niche will set you head and shoulders above the crowd.

          You'll hear that a book isn't necessary. But you only hear that from people who haven't written a book on their subject.

          You'll hear that speaking isn't necessary, but that also only comes from people who don't speak in public for money.

          But you wouldn't believe the change that comes over someone when they find out that you are an author....of a book on your area of expertise....and that you were a keynote speaker talking to other experts in your business....

          Real experts write books and speak in front of groups. You can be an expert without doing these things...but writing books, articles, and speaking are what experts do. And this is marketing. Every speech is a positioning statement. Every book is a sales letter, selling the idea that you are an expert.

          Doors open.

          I speak from experience.

          Of course, if you really don't know your subject cold, writing books and speaking just makes everyone find out that you are a wannabe...faster.

          So, don't "Fake it till you make it". Become the expert first, then do these things to declare it to the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author shaqsquash
    Here's one idea: Before you do a book, do a TED talk.

    They do these events in hundreds of cities around the world, and they have several going at any given time. If you have a interesting, unique idea it's super easy to get into one of these talks, you don't need to be a author or public figure. Being seen on stage in front of hundreds of people with your ideas lends a lot of credibility and press. Pretty easy to position yourself from there.
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    I'd agree with Marcia.

    Writing a book is old hat. Most people see past that these days...

    I like the TED talk idea, however, I thought those were invitation only... Unfortunately, many people are terrible at public speaking, so might just be easier to get a few referrals and build on that...
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Sometimes you just have to be an expert.

    If you've ever looked at what Brendan Bouchard espouses as part of his "Experts Academy" it is basically about becoming an expert.

    People often come to me via referral.

    Sometimes it is difficult to live up to the picture someone has painted in their mind because someone else has said "You are a genius" or "You have the gift".

    It is hard to perform to these expectations but easy to charge accordingly to the reputation others have supported.

    Personally I rather "WOW" a new client who I'm unknown to rather than try to perform to the "LOFTY" vision someone else has created for me.

    Sure I LOVE working with my group of trusted and trust giving clients as often I can perform my best when I'm just building on what has been done before.

    Unfortunately there is a downside to being an EXPERT and that is you are often expected to perform at a level which is significantly higher than others.

    With those expectations comes stress and the negative impacts that follow.

    Just today I got a call from a PR company requesting my expertise.

    NOW I'm excited (but also worried) because I have to perform again.

    The added pressure is the time limit imposed and the fact that the people I'm supposed to perform for are in the film industry and flying in from LA later next week.

    I'm cool about what I have to do but the butterflies and self-doubt never go away regardless of how high a pedestal others put you on.

    As Brendan says "Just be an expert"

    Positioning yourself as one generally takes longer than you think and requires a humility and modesty coupled with a small dose of self promotion when required.

    Once you are considered an expert you need to exude that confidence publicly on a consistent basis.

    As others have said it is better that someone else says you are an expert than proclaiming it yourself.

    Best regards,

    Ozi
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    How to position yourself as an expert?
    It's actually not difficult.

    The more you drill down to a sub-niche the less competition and the easier it is to focus on the subject.

    Real example, I create downloadable files for my traffic. I'm not the best and I don't need to be the best but I still have a large organic sub-niche following (email list, niche forums, blog post, etc...).

    By sub-niche I mean something like say for instance your overall subject is classic cars but your main skills might be classic car interior restoration and nothing else. So, you focus strictly on classic car interior restoration (example) and traffic will perceive you as an authority in the sub-niche. Assumes you know what you're doing.

    Even though you only target classic car interior restoration (example), you can easily advertise/promote across thousands of car sites and still be relevant, whether you're advertising on a classic Mustang forum, Camaro blog, SEO keywords or social media.

    My point is you can be laser focused on one subject and still drive a large amount of relevant traffic from the overall niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author iwillbeontop
    Although he was banned ...... AP and Dex had a great thread going a few years ago about this.... Write books, podcast, radio, etc.... I'll find my notes if I get a chance and post...
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    There actually is a formula you can use if you so desire....

    Now the formula is not so much meant to make you an "expert" but rather a leader and influential.

    I would say that leadership and influence are far more valuable than expertise.

    An expert gets paid a salary at a university or think tank.

    A leader builds companies, leads armies, starts revolutions.

    See the difference?

    So the formula is something like;

    1. Take a stand - here you need to say something that other people think but are afraid to say.

    2. Bring out your haters - there is a reason why people are afraid to say what they think because of the social consequences. But the haters will make you famous which is important.

    3. Call out your people - these are the people who decide "hey this guy makes sense and those haters are acting crazy. I support this guy."

    Boom . You are now a leader.

    You will notice this same formula taking shape in the lives of people like Jesus, Martin Luther, MLK, and many more.

    Also, a little someone by the name of Donald Trump.

    No one considered him an "expert" politician but that didn't keep him from becoming the first person never in politics to win the presidency.

    There are a whole lot of experts still crying tears over that.

    So maybe look pass being an expert and go for leadership.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Problem with leader vs expert?

      When I want my warehouse appraised, I'm going to hire an appraiser who I perceive is an expert in warehouse appraising.

      The warehouse appraising leader comes in when I want to shoot the breeze about what's coming to the warehouse world 5 to 10 years from now.

      Some people might need to hire the leader. But they will only hire him/her if he/she is also an expert in the warehouse appraising part of the world.

      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      There actually is a formula you can use if you so desire....

      Now the formula is not so much meant to make you an "expert" but rather a leader and influential.

      I would say that leadership and influence are far more valuable than expertise.

      An expert gets paid a salary at a university or think tank.

      A leader builds companies, leads armies, starts revolutions.

      See the difference?

      So the formula is something like;

      1. Take a stand - here you need to say something that other people think but are afraid to say.

      2. Bring out your haters - there is a reason why people are afraid to say what they think because of the social consequences. But the haters will make you famous which is important.

      3. Call out your people - these are the people who decide "hey this guy makes sense and those haters are acting crazy. I support this guy."

      Boom . You are now a leader.

      You will notice this same formula taking shape in the lives of people like Jesus, Martin Luther, MLK, and many more.

      Also, a little someone by the name of Donald Trump.

      No one considered him an "expert" politician but that didn't keep him from becoming the first person never in politics to win the presidency.

      There are a whole lot of experts still crying tears over that.

      So maybe look pass being an expert and go for leadership.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      There actually is a formula you can use if you so desire....

      Now the formula is not so much meant to make you an "expert" but rather a leader and influential.

      I would say that leadership and influence are far more valuable than expertise.

      An expert gets paid a salary at a university or think tank.

      A leader builds companies, leads armies, starts revolutions.

      See the difference?

      So the formula is something like;

      1. Take a stand - here you need to say something that other people think but are afraid to say.

      2. Bring out your haters - there is a reason why people are afraid to say what they think because of the social consequences. But the haters will make you famous which is important.

      3. Call out your people - these are the people who decide "hey this guy makes sense and those haters are acting crazy. I support this guy."

      Boom . You are now a leader.

      You will notice this same formula taking shape in the lives of people like Jesus, Martin Luther, MLK, and many more.

      Also, a little someone by the name of Donald Trump.

      No one considered him an "expert" politician but that didn't keep him from becoming the first person never in politics to win the presidency.

      There are a whole lot of experts still crying tears over that.

      So maybe look pass being an expert and go for leadership.
      Yes. Right about NOT the way to expertise, but then, maybe some of you should question whether you want to make money or be an expert.

      Consider this: Radio show millionaires, from Rush, to Howard, to Glenn Beck all built their empires on CONTROVERSY.

      Getting rocks thrown at you is (or can be) a very good, effective way of finding followers.

      I just wanted to point out an idea, in a thread which will soon get buried, this is gold for those who want to make a lot of money, probably not the best reply or idea for those who would rather be called an expert

      GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      As to Trump, and a few others, it's what Gordon says: controversial attracts attention. Requires cojones, stomach. But it pays off big time... And, by the way, it doesn't seem to matter what controversy you get yourself involved in, you get attention that transfers to whatever you do next.

      There's a woman going around showing her crutch to photgraphers every time she gets out of a car... Seems to be all she does is that and things like that. But she's making millions of dollars a year because of that... And there are the Kardashians... Imagine one of them being an expert on top of being a whatever-a-Kardashian is.

      Note: they're not leaders, though.

      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      There actually is a formula you can use if you so desire....

      Now the formula is not so much meant to make you an "expert" but rather a leader and influential.

      I would say that leadership and influence are far more valuable than expertise.

      An expert gets paid a salary at a university or think tank.

      A leader builds companies, leads armies, starts revolutions.

      See the difference?

      So the formula is something like;

      1. Take a stand - here you need to say something that other people think but are afraid to say.

      2. Bring out your haters - there is a reason why people are afraid to say what they think because of the social consequences. But the haters will make you famous which is important.

      3. Call out your people - these are the people who decide "hey this guy makes sense and those haters are acting crazy. I support this guy."

      Boom . You are now a leader.

      You will notice this same formula taking shape in the lives of people like Jesus, Martin Luther, MLK, and many more.

      Also, a little someone by the name of Donald Trump.

      No one considered him an "expert" politician but that didn't keep him from becoming the first person never in politics to win the presidency.

      There are a whole lot of experts still crying tears over that.

      So maybe look pass being an expert and go for leadership.
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      • Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        As to Trump, and a few others, it's what Gordon says: controversial attracts attention. Requires cojones, stomach. But it pays off big time... And, by the way, it doesn't seem to matter what controversy you get yourself involved in, you get attention that transfers to whatever you do next.

        There's a woman going around showing her crutch to photgraphers every time she gets out of a car... Seems to be all she does is that and things like that. But she's making millions of dollars a year because of that... And there are the Kardashians... Imagine one of them being an expert on top of being a whatever-a-Kardashian is.

        Note: they're not leaders, though.
        You (And GordonJ) brought up an excellent point.

        In fact, becoming a celebrity is more important in business than being an expert. You can command higher fees, and people will listen to you, just because you're famous.

        And you don't have to be nationally famous. In my narrow niche business, I'm a minor celebrity. Literally everyone in my business knows who I am. And when I speak at conventions, the rooms fill up.

        But outside that convention center? I'm nobody. And being famous simply means that two people who are talking to each other...both know who you are.

        Kim Kardashian is famous. But how do we know? Because we read about her...and see her photos.

        But you can be famous in a niche, or an industry, or locally....or even just online on Youtube.

        And that means you are a celebrity. And celebrity is currency.

        When I speak for multi day events, I'm just one of maybe a dozen speakers that are there selling something. (promoted as teaching). But if the promoter really wants to fill the auditorium, they hire a celebrity.

        William Shatner will sell tickets to a marketing event. What does Shatner know about marketing? Nothing. But people like the idea of celebrity.

        And creating (or riding) a controversy is the fastest way to become a celebrity. And even if 80% of the people hate you, the other 20% will become loyal clients and customers.

        Are the highest paid lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists the best in their field? Almost never. They are the best at marketing, and they are celebrities. In fact, their marketing makes them a celebrity.

        In my town, there is an insurance man that has his face all over town on billboards.
        Does the billboard advertising make his phone ring? No. But it sure makes it easier for him to get appointments.
        People will listen to him and take his advice...partly because he is a minor celebrity in town.

        You have to be competent in your business. But celebrity will get you further than technical expertise.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          You (And GordonJ) brought up an excellent point.

          In fact, becoming a celebrity is more important in business than being an expert. You can command higher fees, and people will listen to you, just because you're famous.

          And you don't have to be nationally famous. In my narrow niche business, I'm a minor celebrity. Literally everyone in my business knows who I am. And when I speak at conventions, the rooms fill up.

          But outside that convention center? I'm nobody. And being famous simply means that two people who are talking to each other...both know who you are.

          Kim Kardashian is famous. But how do we know? Because we read about her...and see her photos.

          But you can be famous in a niche, or an industry, or locally....or even just online on Youtube.

          And that means you are a celebrity. And celebrity is currency.

          When I speak for multi day events, I'm just one of maybe a dozen speakers that are there selling something. (promoted as teaching). But if the promoter really wants to fill the auditorium, they hire a celebrity.

          William Shatner will sell tickets to a marketing event. What does Shatner know about marketing? Nothing. But people like the idea of celebrity.

          And creating (or riding) a controversy is the fastest way to become a celebrity. And even if 80% of the people hate you, the other 20% will become loyal clients and customers.

          Are the highest paid lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists the best in their field? Almost never. They are the best at marketing, and they are celebrities. In fact, their marketing makes them a celebrity.

          In my town, there is an insurance man that has his face all over town on billboards.
          Does the billboard advertising make his phone ring? No. But it sure makes it easier for him to get appointments.
          People will listen to him and take his advice...partly because he is a minor celebrity in town.

          You have to be competent in your business. But celebrity will get you further than technical expertise.
          There is a Blair Warren one sentence persuasion gem:

          "People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies" quoted from Blair Warren.

          Flip it. Where are the most rocks being cast? Grab a shield and stand in front of it

          At 24, Tomi is a celebrity. And, will more than likely cash in big time too.

          But then, she's got more balls than most of the wannabees who whine about not getting customers

          GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Are the highest paid lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists the best in their field? Almost never. They are the best at marketing, and they are celebrities. In fact, their marketing makes them a celebrity.

          ...You have to be competent in your business. But celebrity will get you further than technical expertise.
          I'll tread carefully as I know next to nothing about medicine even less so about psychiatry and law. But google turns up this fella as far as medicine is concerned:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patric...ing.2Fmedicine
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Originally Posted by eccj


    An expert gets paid a salary at a university or think tank.

    A leader builds companies, leads armies, starts revolutions.
    ...

    No one considered him an "expert" politician but that didn't keep him from becoming the first person never in politics to win the presidency.

    There are a whole lot of experts still crying tears over that.

    So maybe look pass being an expert and go for leadership.
    Experts don't lead armies? I think Douglas MacArthur (former superintendent of West Point) would beg to differ. So would Zhou Enlai and Chiang Kai-Chek who both taught at the Whampoa military academy. To name but a few examples.

    They don't build companies? Of course they do. Charles Ives is an early example in the insurance industry. His success would not have been possible without his innovations in the actuarial field. He was also (believe it or not) the main sales trainer in his organization.

    The two are not mutually exclusive.
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    • Profile picture of the author eccj
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Experts don't lead armies? I think Douglas MacArthur (former superintendent of West Point) would beg to differ. So would Zhou Enlai and Chiang Kai-Chek who both taught at the Whampoa military academy. To name but a few examples.

      They don't build companies? Of course they do. Charles Ives is an early example in the insurance industry. His success would not have been possible without his innovations in the actuarial field. He was also (believe it or not) the main sales trainer in his organization.

      The two are not mutually exclusive.
      Okay

      The highest levels of warfare is not tactical or operational, according to Clausewitz, but rather strategic.

      Strategy does not require the intimate information that the operational level of war does.

      Going beyond that, John Boyd declared that there was another "trinity" in war; Mental, physical, and moral.

      It does not take an expert on the particulars, such as marching, to take the moral aspect of war.

      Look at the peasants in Vietnam who couldn't even read. They played Kissinger like a fool when they tore at the fabric of America. They understood that if they gave the Americans some kind of peace it would heal some of the divisions in American life at that time, thus hurting their advantage at the moral level.

      So even the great theorist of war disagree with you.

      Sure, knowing you stuff helps. We all get that. But it is not the highest level one can achieve.

      In war. In business. In relationships.

      We also are now talking about many different things here.

      We started at expertise. I suggested look at leadership and influence.

      Then we went to celebrity.

      Now we are talking about visionaries - in war of all things.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by eccj View Post

        We also are now talking about many different things here.

        We started at expertise. I suggested look at leadership and influence.

        Then we went to celebrity.

        Now we are talking about visionaries - in war of all things.
        all against the backdrop of:

        "You'll learn how to make money with offline marketing and how to help offline businesses become online businesses."

        Do experts make money, of course, SOME DO. Same for leaders, influencers, celebrities, visionaries, even WAR mongers. SOME DO.

        in the context of the OP, "..what other strategies can you use to sell yourself on the spot...?"

        I think it has been a good discussion and given the OP some choices and answers to the question. The better threads often take tangents, and even a few of those are helpful (or hilarious).

        Another answer is, don't try,
        to sell yourself

        solve HIS/HER problem, if you have the solution, they most often don't care who you are, what you know, or what you had for breakfast....

        can you help them or not? Start there and don't worry about selling yourself, my opinion, that is wrong thinking, putting yourself before the customer's needs. Address that, talk about that, tell him what you can do for him, then get out of your own way.

        GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by eccj View Post

        Look at the peasants in Vietnam who couldn't even read. They played Kissinger like a fool when they tore at the fabric of America. They understood that if they gave the Americans some kind of peace it would heal some of the divisions in American life at that time, thus hurting their advantage at the moral level.

        So even the great theorist of war disagree with you.
        So you think that a Vietnamese Donald trump outwitted Henry Kissinger?
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        • Profile picture of the author eccj
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          So you think that a Vietnamese Donald trump outwitted Henry Kissinger?
          I wouldn't say outwitted if I had a better word.

          Kissinger was in an impossible situation that wasn't his fault. He needed peace and the Vietnamese knew it.

          So they took advantage of the guy in a weak position and won the war.

          I think there are winds of history. That is, some things are finding their time and it matters who recognizes those winds and rides them to new heights.

          Trump is obviously the big example right now.

          But I think it is true in business as well.

          An idea has a time that comes.

          I'm not sure a can articulate it right now in business terms but I will ruminate on it.

          It obviously is true in culture and politics so it is probably true in business.

          Some businesses reflect are right now culture and then get passed by with time.

          Microsoft gave way to Apple

          Same type of business but totally different as far as culture.

          IDK but food for thought.

          So maybe if you want to be a leader, look and see where the next wave is coming from and point your board in the right direction and ride that sucker to fame or fortune.
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          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
            Originally Posted by eccj View Post

            I wouldn't say outwitted if I had a better word.

            Kissinger was in an impossible situation that wasn't his fault. He needed peace and the Vietnamese knew it.

            So they took advantage of the guy in a weak position and won the war.

            I think there are winds of history. That is, some things are finding their time and it matters who recognizes those winds and rides them to new heights.

            Trump is obviously the big example right now.

            But I think it is true in business as well.

            An idea has a time that comes.

            I'm not sure a can articulate it right now in business terms but I will ruminate on it.

            It obviously is true in culture and politics so it is probably true in business.

            Some businesses reflect are right now culture and then get passed by with time.

            Microsoft gave way to Apple

            Same type of business but totally different as far as culture.

            IDK but food for thought.

            So maybe if you want to be a leader, look and see where the next wave is coming from and point your board in the right direction and ride that sucker to fame or fortune.
            I think your observations are mistaken regarding the Vietnamese leadership and simplistic vis-a-vis Boyd/Clausewitz.

            but here's a quick way to bring it back from war to business:

            We all prefer rags to riches stories but there's a caveat in only selecting popular examples.Depends on what you define as experts (feel free to tell me what is your definition and I'll run with it), but the overall picture tells a different story from the popular narrative:

            Are billionaires more likely to be graduates? - BBC News

            In practical terms, suppose you sell insurance or vacuum cleaners or whatever. Suppose it works well.
            Very well even. From then on,how do you define the "highest levels" and how do you reach them?

            If one doesn't have a certain level of expertise, how does one know when the next wave is going to strike?

            Not just in terms of base competence, but in deciding where to go in the next 5,10,20,30 years?
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            • Profile picture of the author eccj
              Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

              If one doesn't have a certain level of expertise, how does one know when the next wave is going to strike?

              Not just in terms of base competence, but in deciding where to go in the next 5,10,20,30 years?
              Perhaps it is a skill in itself? A talent maybe?

              I'm thinking of when I read this a long time ago -

              His idea of "the intellectual" being close to our idea of the expert.

              Also, could the expert focus more on the tactics? US Military leaders have a hard time thinking strategically yet they are the highest trained military in the world, certainly the most powerful and expensive, yet we can't beat a stone age people in Afghanistan after 15 years.

              Or look at sales; the best informed salesmen who is a lousy salesman will under perform a great salesman who knows next to nothing about his product.

              Also, you are using expert and expertise interchangeably. Having expertise does not make one an expert.

              It's an interesting subject and there are exceptions to be found everywhere we look.
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              • Profile picture of the author animal44
                Originally Posted by eccj View Post

                Or look at sales; the best informed salesmen who is a lousy salesman will under perform a great salesman who knows next to nothing about his product.
                I disagree.

                If you're out in the desert with a cart load of bottled water and you come across someone dying of thirst who has a bag of gold, you won't have to be much of a salesman to exchange a bottle of water for the bag of gold.

                Take the same cart load of bottled water outside the local supermarket and you'll struggle, even if you're a great salesman...

                It's all down to the offer. And the targeted audience.

                Now let's say two people with a cart load of bottled water come across the dying man. What most salesmen do is sacrifice some profit or commission. Two bottles for the same price or one bottle for half price. Then there's a price war. Lowering profits.

                What does Animal do? Animal offers the bottle of water for the bag of gold and as a bonus a free seat in his air conditioned Range Rover to take him back to civilisation...

                Who do you think gets the sale...? No sales ability needed...

                That's marketing. Understanding and articulating your audience's needs and offering them a solution... Do this properly and the salesman becomes an order taker...

                Back to positioning... IMHO it has little to do with product knowledge or salesmanship. It's all to do with connecting with the person. Understanding their wants needs, fears and desires. When someone believes you are there to help them rather than sell them something, then they'll see you as their expert.
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                • Profile picture of the author DABK
                  To keep it in the spirit of ECCJ's statement, shouldn't it be more like:
                  Desert, starved person holding gold, and 2 people holding 1 bottle of water, one a good sales man, one a lousy one. Who gets to exchange is bottle of water for the gold?

                  Take the same bottle-of-water holding people, one still good at sales, the other one bad at it, put them outside the store in your imagination, see which one can exchange the water for a coin?

                  Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                  I disagree.

                  If you're out in the desert with a cart load of bottled water and you come across someone dying of thirst who has a bag of gold, you won't have to be much of a salesman to exchange a bottle of water for the bag of gold.

                  Take the same cart load of bottled water outside the local supermarket and you'll struggle, even if you're a great salesman...

                  It's all down to the offer. And the targeted audience.

                  Now let's say two people with a cart load of bottled water come across the dying man. What most salesmen do is sacrifice some profit or commission. Two bottles for the same price or one bottle for half price. Then there's a price war. Lowering profits.

                  What does Animal do? Animal offers the bottle of water for the bag of gold and as a bonus a free seat in his air conditioned Range Rover to take him back to civilisation...

                  Who do you think gets the sale...? No sales ability needed...

                  That's marketing. Understanding and articulating your audience's needs and offering them a solution... Do this properly and the salesman becomes an order taker...

                  Back to positioning... IMHO it has little to do with product knowledge or salesmanship. It's all to do with connecting with the person. Understanding their wants needs, fears and desires. When someone believes you are there to help them rather than sell them something, then they'll see you as their expert.
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                  • Profile picture of the author animal44
                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Take the same bottle-of-water holding people, one still good at sales, the other one bad at it, put them outside the store in your imagination, see which one can exchange the water for a coin?
                    I'd say the bad salesman, if he had a better offer. Say a brochure doing a Schlitz beer type explanation of where the water came from and how pure it was. And maybe a bonus... a trip to Disneyland? or maybe more realistically, a prize draw trip to Disneyland, or maybe a free glass with the bottle of water, or a discount coupon at the supermarket... Whatever the audience would see as valuable...

                    Gary Halbert made $140 million dollars without a salesman... How many of the salespeople on here come close to that?
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                    • Profile picture of the author eccj
                      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                      I'd say the bad salesman, if he had a better offer. Say a brochure doing a Schlitz beer type explanation of where the water came from and how pure it was. And maybe a bonus... a trip to Disneyland? or maybe more realistically, a prize draw trip to Disneyland, or maybe a free glass with the bottle of water, or a discount coupon at the supermarket... Whatever the audience would see as valuable...

                      Gary Halbert made $140 million dollars without a salesman... How many of the salespeople on here come close to that?
                      To be fair Halbert was a great salesman. I remember him saying he based his famous sales letter off of his days selling books.

                      He was an extremely leveraged salesman though like you recommend.
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                    • Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                      Gary Halbert made $140 million dollars without a salesman... How many of the salespeople on here come close to that?
                      No, Halbert made $149 million as a salesman. Copywriting is selling. And when he spoke at seminars, selling consulting and copywriting services...that was selling.
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                      • Profile picture of the author SARubin
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        No, Halbert made $149 million as a salesman. Copywriting is selling.
                        You took the words right out of my mouth. The Gary Halbert "coat of arms" letter (for example) was brilliant salesmanship, mass produced.
                        So, I'll just finish with a quote from John E. Kennedy... "Advertising is Salesmanship in print."
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                        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                          Do you guys consider yourself experts in your field?

                          I mean not in relation to the people you talk to but in relation to your peers.

                          Are you the best marketer/salesman there is? If not do you aspire to be if expertise is not required? If you had to go head to head with who you consider the best marketer/salesman/guru etc, what would you do?
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                          • Profile picture of the author SARubin
                            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                            If you had to go head to head with who you consider the best marketer/salesman/guru etc, what would you do?
                            I would spend some of my time trying to create a control piece. But I would spend most of my time studying and learning everything I could from someone who's better than me.

                            For example: When it comes to marketing, I stand in "awe" of Jay Abraham. Not to demean myself, but I don't think I could ever "out market" him, so I'd work just hard enough to stay in the competition, while studying everything he says and does.
                            And if he'd let me ask a few questions... I'd ask as many as I could before he shuts me off (or starts charging me $5000 an hour for his consultation fee )

                            The same goes for someone like Gary Bencivenga when it comes to copywriting. (I'm using him as my example, because in my humble opinion, he's one of the greatest in history, and he's the greatest copywriter who's still alive today)
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                        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                          In theory, I think you could outsource everything and rely on advisors for all domain-specific knowledge.
                          It always seem like for the people that succeeded wildly, it's not a gradual ascent. It's more like they made a bet that set them up for life. But how do you know where to place your chips without domain-specific knowledge?

                          E.g. we all know Bill Gates. And how IBM bent over just at the right moment.

                          if the year is 1980 and I don't know what an operating system is, it's an opportunity that is de facto closed to me even though in theory someone with only $$$ could have set up the deal.
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                        • Profile picture of the author animal44
                          Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

                          However, being a salesman (saleswoman?) is a great way to learn the selling process, first hand. And that can only help when it comes to writing sales messages.
                          I'm increasingly disagreeing with this.
                          I think the sales industry have it all wrong...
                          I don't have a sales background - or rather I wasn't indoctrinated in sales I've been a business owner for most of my working life, so I guess that does make me a salesman.

                          However.

                          As an example, all the sales manuals tell you you must dress
                          1. Like your prospect
                          or
                          2. Slightly better than your prospect
                          or
                          3. Like their advisers.

                          My clients tend to be CEOs of multimillion dollar corporations. Or at least director level. They live in suits.
                          I live in jeans and teeshirt. And I've yet to see the sales manual advising you to wear jeans and tee shirt.
                          Yet my close rate is very high. How come?

                          Well it partly goes back to what I started with. That all you need is a good offer to a targeted audience. People want what I have. What I wear is irrelevant.

                          So how come what you wear is so important to the sales industry?

                          I'm going to leave you to figure that out... (and if you do, let me know )

                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                          Do you guys consider yourself experts in your field?
                          More importantly, my clients consider me "expert". I consider that I still have much to learn.
                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                          Are you the best marketer/salesman there is?
                          I doubt it...
                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                          If not do you aspire to be if expertise is not required?
                          I don't compete with anyone but myself when it comes to marketing. I'm always striving to improve my own results... I doubt I'll ever come close to the likes of Jay Abraham...
                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                          If you had to go head to head with who you consider the best marketer/salesman/guru etc, what would you do?
                          From memory Jay Abraham made 3.5 million in his first year doing JVs. I beat him . My star protege also beat him Therefore I'm better than him

                          To be honest, I use people like Jay for inspiration, not competition.
                          Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

                          And if he'd let me ask a few questions... I'd ask as many as I could before he shuts me off (or starts charging me $5000 an hour for his consultation fee )
                          Have you tried? I remember someone telling a story of how he contacted Jay and asked if he could do anything for him in return for a free ticket to one of Jay's conferences. Jay invited him to his home and gave him free ticket in return for something - can't remember what. Anyway, it showed Jay's generosity. So maybe fire him an email and offer to do something for him in return for a few answers...
                          If you don't ask the answer will always be "No"!
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                          • Profile picture of the author SARubin
                            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            As an example, all the sales manuals tell you you must dress
                            1. Like your prospect
                            or
                            2. Slightly better than your prospect
                            or
                            3. Like their advisers.[
                            I'm not so sure you need to dress any certain way. For me, the point would be more to allow my client to feel like I'm similar to them. So they can feel like I understand their situation a little better?

                            If I can build a little rapport with my client, or allow them to feel more comfortable with me, before I even say a word... Then why not? As long as I'm not being phony about it, it just makes my job that much easier.

                            I own a few suits, and I also own jeans and T-shirts. I feel comfortable wearing either. So I have no problem wearing whichever helps my clients feel more comfortable talking to me.

                            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            To be honest, I use people like Jay for inspiration, not competition.

                            Have you tried? I remember someone telling a story of how he contacted Jay and asked if he could do anything for him in return for a free ticket to one of Jay's conferences. Jay invited him to his home and gave him free ticket in return for something - can't remember what. Anyway, it showed Jay's generosity. So maybe fire him an email and offer to do something for him in return for a few answers...
                            If you don't ask the answer will always be "No"!
                            No, I haven't contacted him. I was really just using his name as an example to emphasize a point in my answer to the post.

                            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            From memory Jay Abraham made 3.5 million in his first year doing JVs. I beat him . My star protege also beat him Therefore I'm better than him
                            Now I stand in "awe" of you, as well
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                          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            More importantly, my clients consider me "expert". I consider that I still have much to learn....

                            Well it partly goes back to what I started with. That all you need is a good offer to a targeted audience. People want what I have. What I wear is irrelevant.
                            What do you consider to be your main skill?

                            What do you offer? Or what did you offer in the past?

                            Are you a pure marketer, or do you have other specialist skills?

                            If the former, do you believe there are restrictions in what JVs you can partake in?
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                        • Profile picture of the author animal44
                          Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

                          I'm not so sure you need to dress any certain way. For me, the point would be more to allow my client to feel like I'm similar to them. So they can feel like I understand their situation a little better?
                          Sorry I posted that last post without properly finishing...

                          One of the high post count gurus -, I won't mention Claude by name - I think he's said more than once that, at a networking meeting, it's his job to find the one or two people who are ready to buy now...

                          I cringe when I read things like that. We've all been there. The guy who does the rounds, pitching to all and sundry... In fact we've probably all done it ourselves... including me...

                          I don't ever feel like referring such a person to anyone... Nobody likes being sold to, so I wouldn't want to upset a good relationship by sending them a salesman...

                          And there's also the all important intell. Finding out what's on their minds. What's troubling them. What words are they using? If you understand this, then getting into their minds becomes easier...

                          What I see on this forum is what I'd consider hard sell. Strange then that there's a common saying that "people hate being sold to, but love to buy".

                          Now a story. Way back in 1977, I suddenly was propelled into the self employment stratosphere and my income skyrocketed. Up to that point the cars I had always owned had been old bangers. Suddenly a nice smart modern car was within easy reach. I chose my car and I was excited about finally being able to own my first brand new car.

                          I headed off down to the dealer to test drive and get a brochure so I could mull over what optional extras I wanted.

                          The salesman pressured me into signing on the dotted line there and then. I'm pretty sure that the last time anyone pressured me into buying anything. As soon as I had signed, I regretted it.

                          When I got the car, I found fault. I hated the thing. I hated the dealer. What should have been a great experience was ruined for me. I was half glad when it was stolen some six or eight months later.

                          However, I went and bought another one, same make. Did the dealer get the business? The hell he did. I went elsewhere. And bought a more expensive model with all the options I'd missed on the first car.

                          And here's my point. And what I see on the scripts and attitudes on this forum. The sales industries set targets for calls and sales and so forth. Where are the targets for lifetime customers?

                          The first dealer got the sale, but lost all future business. And if you go back and see what Jay Abraham says about lifetime customer value, maybe you'll see my point...

                          In the case of my first car, had there been a self service supermarket offering cars, I would've bought it, and probably enjoyed it far more. The salesman got in the way. And we're back to the the point I made earlier about the right offer to the right audience. If you have something that people want, you don't need a salesman to ram it down their throat...

                          Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

                          Now I stand in "awe" of you, as well
                          Well, I was comparing Jay's 1979/1980 first JV with my 2013/2014 attempts. 2013 was the first time I worked with clients on a "lifetime" basis. Previous JVs I did were one offs... So, to be fair on poor Jay, I think the value of Jay's 1979 dollars probably exceed the value my 2013 GBPs
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                          • Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            Sorry I posted that last post without properly finishing...

                            One of the high post count gurus -, I won't mention Claude by name - I think he's said more than once that, at a networking meeting, it's his job to find the one or two people who are ready to buy now...


                            Yes, I've said that many times.

                            I cringe when I read things like that. We've all been there. The guy who does the rounds, pitching to all and sundry... In fact we've probably all done it ourselves... including me...

                            I cringe as well when I see someone do that. That's not even close to what I do.

                            I don't ever feel like referring such a person to anyone... Nobody likes being sold to, so I wouldn't want to upset a good relationship by sending them a salesman...
                            I agree. I would never refer such a person to someone else as well.

                            This "Claude" person you talk about, sounds like a real unprofessional. I hope I never have to meet him.
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                        • Profile picture of the author animal44
                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                          What do you consider to be your main skill?

                          What do you offer? Or what did you offer in the past?

                          Are you a pure marketer, or do you have other specialist skills?

                          If the former, do you believe there are restrictions in what JVs you can partake in?
                          Our primary service is that we help businesses grow through direct response marketing. Mostly email and direct mail.

                          Secondary services: We help systemise the business. We help owner extract themselves from the business thus making it more saleable. We help ailing businesses recover. We help to sell businesses or prepare for sale. We've helped people start businesses. We help them licence their systems to other businesses.

                          We previously offered SEO and PPC and content marketing, however we don't any longer.

                          I have been known to help with computer issues, either directly or by finding a supplier who can help. I also occasionally get involved in other business related issues where I think I can help, perhaps by a referral or introduction.

                          The only restriction I have in JVs is it must be legal and ethical...
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                          • Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            Our primary service is that we help businesses grow through direct response marketing. Mostly email and direct mail.

                            Secondary services: We help systemise the business. We help owner extract themselves from the business thus making it more saleable. We help ailing businesses recover. We help to sell businesses or prepare for sale. We've helped people start businesses. We help them licence their systems to other businesses.

                            We previously offered SEO and PPC and content marketing, however we don't any longer.

                            I have been known to help with computer issues, either directly or by finding a supplier who can help. I also occasionally get involved in other business related issues where I think I can help, perhaps by a referral or introduction.

                            The only restriction I have in JVs is it must be legal and ethical...
                            This may be the most you've ever posted about what you do.
                            I get it now. I don't mean it in any bad way, but I now see the business you are in, and understand your views on cold calling, selling, and how you prospect for business.

                            You are simply playing a different game than nearly every one here. Maybe a different game than anyone else here. It's a better game, more profitable, and certainly at a higher level. But a different game nonetheless.

                            Had I changed careers mid stream, this is the path I would have chosen.
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                            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              It's a better game, more profitable, and certainly at a higher level. But a different game nonetheless.
                              What is the best game in your view?
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                              • Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                What is the best game in your view?
                                No idea. But I know that large joint ventures, marketing to a company's list is highly profitable. It's a different business from what we think of as selling.

                                For example, even selling from the stage I've never made a million dollars in a year....close, but not quite. And I was pretty good at it.

                                Selling individually, even at $6,000 a pop....won't create real wealth either. A phenomenal income, but not real wealth.

                                But working with CEOs of larger companies in a joint venture.....can create a million dollars in one single deal. In fact, I wouldn't think that would even be unusual.

                                After all, you (and your host company) are only dealing with proven buyers, that are used to buying the way you sell..and you have borrowed credibility from the parent company.

                                CEOs know other CEOs, referrals are incredibly qualified. And one profitable deal (for the host company) spins off many.
                                But it's not selling like we think of it. More building relationships...into partnerships.... multiple meetings...and every sale would be different.

                                No idea what the best business in the world is, but I would say one suited to your skills and temperament.

                                I've watched a lot of Jay Abraham..and read some of his case studies of joint ventures. It would be a long learning curve for me (when younger), and I would only enter the business if I had a mentor.
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                                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  CEOs know other CEOs, referrals are incredibly qualified.
                                  Savidge4 posted the other day that the influential businesspeople all met at a cafe in small town America, is there an equivalent at a regional or even a national level?

                                  In Asia, there is for sure, in many countries this clique is influential enough that I think beyond a certain point, they can block an outsider from making it but in the West I don't know if it's true or not.

                                  I think they are big but not influential enough to block someone who really had the better product/or smarter, the same way they do overseas.

                                  Do you think this is necessary to have the "approval" of such a group to succeed beyond a certain level?

                                  If I don't want to seek their approval, what is the better fields to enter? Right now , I'm kind of betting on technical where .

                                  And one profitable deal (for the host company) spins off many.
                                  But it's not selling like we think of it. More building relationships...into partnerships.... multiple meetings...and every sale would be different.
                                  What's the difference between this and sales?

                                  How do you get the foot in the door if you don't know any CEO? Isn't that a sale (of sort)?

                                  I've watched a lot of Jay Abraham..and read some of his case studies of joint ventures. It would be a long learning curve for me (when younger), and I would only enter the business if I had a mentor.
                                  Why? What is the difference between learning this and sales or say a technical skill (e.g. programming)?
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                                  • Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    Savidge4 posted the other day that the influential businesspeople all met at a cafe in small town America, is there an equivalent at a regional or even a national level?
                                    CEOs of huge businesses may know each other. Especially locally. They may join the same clubs, be part of the same organizations.

                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    Do you think this is necessary to have the "approval" of such a group to succeed beyond a certain level?
                                    I need to tell you that I don't travel in that group. So take this with a grain of salt. But it's the same as referrals. A referral is a form of approval...a stamp of approval. A good referral from a CEO (with an introduction) is as good as any membership, I would think.


                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    What's the difference between this and sales?
                                    To me, all conversation with an agenda is selling. I just said it wasn't like the sales we are used to. For example, when I sold life insurance to companies, I acted differently than I did when I sold vacuum cleaners. I was more reserved, more serious in my approach. And it required more than one meeting (to sell each employee individually).


                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    How do you get the foot in the door if you don't know any CEO? Isn't that a sale (of sort)?
                                    You don't need to know a CEO. You can just walk in with an idea. Just start with smaller companies with fewer layers of management. The book The Power To Get In showed me an approach that worked well. Once you get one CEO with a JV that is profitable for them (or any sale that is profitable for them) they will brag to their friends. So your purpose is to make sure you can really deliver.

                                    "Fake it till you make it" has no place in business.

                                    Frankly, when I was selling life insurance benefit packages to CEOs, I was cold walking. I'd just go to industrial complexes where there were large groups of companies...and just walk in. One day my sales manager wanted to see how I was making all those sales, and was very uncomfortable when he found I just walked in cold. I walked into about 20 companies that day and wrote up three....and all their employees. Seeing all the employees and writing them up took weeks, but getting the business took one call. Of course, I knew what I was doing, and how to present my idea so it sounded like a real benefit to the CEO....and of course it was.



                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    Why? What is the difference between learning this and sales or say a technical skill (e.g. programming)?
                                    It's different from the sales most of us are used to.

                                    But to be fair, if you are a rank beginner, it shouldn't matter which path you take. They are all hard.

                                    And I think like an engineer. Sales didn't come easy to me at all. It had to be learned, just like any skill.

                                    The reason I said I wouldn't try the JV route without a mentor is that I was talking about switching careers midstream, not just starting out.

                                    Although a real expert mentor makes any skill easier to learn. I had a few in my life, of varying quality.

                                    I have little more to offer on the subject. I've done a form of JV in my life, but not like animal44 is talking about. You might want to buy Jeff Paul's joint venture course on E-Bay.

                                    I hope this helps.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author DABK
                                      I know a bunch of experts in various fields who're doing poorly because they have not positioned themselves as experts, some positioned themselves as the fastest at what they're doing, some as the cheapest at what they're doing, some as the computer guy who speaks Russian.

                                      They'd be doing much better if they had positioned themselves as experts.

                                      Like Claude said, being an expert and being known as being an expert are not the same thing.


                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      CEOs of huge businesses may know each other. Especially locally. They may join the same clubs, be part of the same organizations.



                                      I need to tell you that I don't travel in that group. So take this with a grain of salt. But it's the same as referrals. A referral is a form of approval...a stamp of approval. A good referral from a CEO (with an introduction) is as good as any membership, I would think.



                                      To me, all conversation with an agenda is selling. I just said it wasn't like the sales we are used to. For example, when I sold life insurance to companies, I acted differently than I did when I sold vacuum cleaners. I was more reserved, more serious in my approach. And it required more than one meeting (to sell each employee individually).




                                      You don't need to know a CEO. You can just walk in with an idea. Just start with smaller companies with fewer layers of management. The book The Power To Get In showed me an approach that worked well. Once you get one CEO with a JV that is profitable for them (or any sale that is profitable for them) they will brag to their friends. So your purpose is to make sure you can really deliver.

                                      "Fake it till you make it" has no place in business.

                                      Frankly, when I was selling life insurance benefit packages to CEOs, I was cold walking. I'd just go to industrial complexes where there were large groups of companies...and just walk in. One day my sales manager wanted to see how I was making all those sales, and was very uncomfortable when he found I just walked in cold. I walked into about 20 companies that day and wrote up three....and all their employees. Seeing all the employees and writing them up took weeks, but getting the business took one call. Of course, I knew what I was doing, and how to present my idea so it sounded like a real benefit to the CEO....and of course it was.





                                      It's different from the sales most of us are used to.

                                      But to be fair, if you are a rank beginner, it shouldn't matter which path you take. They are all hard.

                                      And I think like an engineer. Sales didn't come easy to me at all. It had to be learned, just like any skill.

                                      The reason I said I wouldn't try the JV route without a mentor is that I was talking about switching careers midstream, not just starting out.

                                      Although a real expert mentor makes any skill easier to learn. I had a few in my life, of varying quality.

                                      I have little more to offer on the subject. I've done a form of JV in my life, but not like animal44 is talking about. You might want to buy Jeff Paul's joint venture course on E-Bay.

                                      I hope this helps.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    Savidge4 posted the other day that the influential businesspeople all met at a cafe in small town America, is there an equivalent at a regional or even a national level?
                                    This all depends on how active you are willing to be. I would say at a regional and national level conventions is the starting point. There are conventions for just about everything.


                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    Do you think this is necessary to have the "approval" of such a group to succeed beyond a certain level?
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    I need to tell you that I don't travel in that group. So take this with a grain of salt. But it's the same as referrals. A referral is a form of approval...a stamp of approval. A good referral from a CEO (with an introduction) is as good as any membership, I would think.
                                    I think there is a direct correlation between the relationship with the referral and the life of the referral. If you are on the outside looking in, and get a referral... that referral in general will have a short life span... The business created is more related to doing the fellow CEO a favor by giving you a try VS being "approved" and receiving business as a social equal.


                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    How do you get the foot in the door if you don't know any CEO? Isn't that a sale (of sort)?
                                    Change the term "Sale" to "Conversion" and its no longer sort of.... There are multiple points of conversion to ultimately getting the conversion to dollars. Getting a business on the phone a conversion. Getting the gatekeeper to let you through, a conversion. Actually speaking to the decision maker, a conversion. Setting up a meeting, a conversion. actually selling your product or service.. a conversion.

                                    How is a big question.. with many many possible answers. As I lined out above.. by calling. By meeting at a social function. Meeting the guy next to you on a plane. At the local hang out. His wife knows your wife. Someone in your circle of influence knows the guy. inbound marketing at work... tons of ways, and none are wrong....


                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    What is the difference between learning this and sales or say a technical skill (e.g. programming)?
                                    Technical learning IE programming is very linear. Once the linear process is learned it always works. Learning to meet, and sell are the exact opposite, they are dynamic. There are inter and exterior influences at play. Understanding how to use and avoid and manipulate these influences to level the playing field changes with each and every interaction. The idea is to develop a system / a methodology that works 3 times out of 20 ( using Claudes sales numbers ) vs programming that will work 100% of the time.

                                    There comes a point when you can instigate and identify ( qualify ) those that fit within your system of selling. your not going to get them all, but your percentage becomes greater and greater.
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                                    • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                                      I think there is a direct correlation between the relationship with the referral and the life of the referral. If you are on the outside looking in, and get a referral... that referral in general will have a short life span... The business created is more related to doing the fellow CEO a favor by giving you a try VS being "approved" and receiving business as a social equal.
                                      I agree. And you can get that exact relationship by getting a referral from a really happy client.

                                      You said, " The business created is more related to doing the fellow CEO a favor by giving you a try VS being "approved" and receiving business as a social equal."

                                      Not the way I get referrals, or see referrals, or the reasons the referrals are given to me.

                                      You can either read my book on prospecting, or read Beyond Referrals by Bill Cates. The referrer is doing the referral a favor, they aren't doing you a favor. And the referral sees "seeing you" as a benefit to them, there isn't really a "I'm seeing you as a favor to my friend" mindset.

                                      Although, I admit, earlier in my sales career, most of my referrals were the "This is doing a favor for my friend" kind of referrals. But even then, after the first ten minutes, all of that was gone. Selling vacuum cleaners to consumers is transactional, and the referral program was transactional too.

                                      But selling marketing services, and getting referrals from one CEO to another, a completely different approach. (and it came much later in life, when I knew more anyway)
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                              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                What is the best game in your view?
                                tip of hat to Eric Berne and Joe South re: Games People Play.

                                Old friend Jim Straw would ask, "who is the most beautiful woman in the world", and get 101 different answers from 100 guys (of course, I kept changing my mind).

                                The BEST GAME for making money is subjective. Finally the Animal has given some insight into what he does, and I agree with Claude, it is a different game than most here play.

                                Let me toss a couple of hats into the ring, see if one of these (albeit not THE best to you), but pretty dang good guys.

                                Guy one. Controls a patent. Does not mfgr, sell or supply anything to any body. He has a piece of paper. Over a Billion Dollars of the product he "owns" has been sold the last decade. He gets a small % (guesstimated at 1.5 to 2.5%) per unit sold.

                                In the past decade he has been paid between 10 to 15 million dollars for the two sheets of paper he owns. Is that a good game? I think so.

                                Guy 2. Owns the patents on a few products. Controls the molds, the processes, and has fewer than 150 customers, who reorder automatically. Has been at his game for 60 continuous years. Has sold over 100 million products.

                                So, these two examples play the game of TOLL POSITION, they own rights, and they CONTROL products people want. Great game in my opinion.

                                Guy 3. Oil rights. In Ohio, PA, W.VA. Sure oil barons galore in TX, OK. But his rights have made him a millionaire, and he has diversified into retail, restaurants, real estate to parlay his assets, diversification is a great game, ONCE you make some dough.

                                Guy 4. Industrialist. Started two companies, built big business, ran the show then invested in other people. Investing is a great game, once you have money to invest.

                                This thread has taken some twists and turns, but it has some great info and insights into it. One thing, we all get to choose what we THINK is the best way for ourselves to get in the game.

                                Too much failure at WF (and in life) when people try to follow this guru or replicate that guy's success, just for the chase of the money.

                                I believe a lot of it has to do with AGE. Young people under 25 should explore the world, travel, see things and have experiences.

                                25 to 35 without kids, can be used for skills, education specialization,

                                35 to 50 MAKE THE DOUGH.

                                Over 50 do what they want.

                                Problem for most is; they get too busy earning a living, they don't make the time to make any money.

                                The BEST game you can play, is the one you create and dedicate yourself to playing to win. Can't lose that game.

                                But, just my opinion.

                                GordonJ
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                                • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                  Guy one. Controls a patent. Does not mfgr, sell or supply anything to any body. He has a piece of paper. Over a Billion Dollars of the product he "owns" has been sold the last decade. He gets a small % (guesstimated at 1.5 to 2.5%) per unit sold.

                                  In the past decade he has been paid between 10 to 15 million dollars for the two sheets of paper he owns. Is that a good game? I think so.

                                  Guy 2. Owns the patents on a few products. Controls the molds, the processes, and has fewer than 150 customers, who reorder automatically. Has been at his game for 60 continuous years. Has sold over 100 million products.

                                  So, these two examples play the game of TOLL POSITION, they own rights, and they CONTROL products people want. Great game in my opinion.

                                  Guy 3. Oil rights. In Ohio, PA, W.VA. Sure oil barons galore in TX, OK. But his rights have made him a millionaire, and he has diversified into retail, restaurants, real estate to parlay his assets, diversification is a great game, ONCE you make some dough.

                                  Guy 4. Industrialist. Started two companies, built big business, ran the show then invested in other people. Investing is a great game, once you have money to invest.

                                  This thread has taken some twists and turns, but it has some great info and insights into it. One thing, we all get to choose what we THINK is the best way for ourselves to get in the game.
                                  First, I think this is a great contribution to this discussion.
                                  The only reason I would put joint venture ahead of these, is that it's more certain. Meaning, I think most people, with enough training, could make it their business, and there are ways to guarantee that it's profitable. (for both parties).

                                  Another way to generate huge money is to use the idea from the book How I Made $1,000,000 in Mail Order-and You Can Too! by E. Joseph Cossman. And that way is to find a product that isn't being marketed well, and simply buy the company...or license the product...or become a partner with the owner....and you market the product a new and better way.

                                  That is another method that can take some time, without real rewards. But like owning a great patent (or being the inventor) when you hit, you can hit big.

                                  Out of all these ideas, I still like the joint venture idea the most.

                                  As a salesman, I used some of the ideas in joint venture marketing o greatly multiply my sales...using customer lists for related products, seeing list of people that already bought something else in the media I used....lists of customers that I could just take over.

                                  I bought a list of 5,000 buyers of the vacuum cleaner I mainly sell, from a store that went out of business...extremely lucrative. I only paid a dollar for each customer record. It took me a few years to call through them ( I did it myself). I got almost 500 new sales out of it, at about a grand each.

                                  For a few years, I also bought installment finance contracts from a direct sales organization (eventually three such organizations). These were sales that had their credit declined. I would buy the contracts for about 30% of the sale price. Some I financed myself, and some I sold to specialty finance companies that gave me between 50-80% of the contract price.

                                  The only reason I stopped is that the sales organizations shrunk until it wasn't really a business anymore. These were in home sales organizations...and that kind of business is getting scarce now.

                                  You could also make a small fortune buying something in closeouts..or factory seconds...and selling on E-Bay. Before E-Bay (or at least before I was aware of it) I had newspaper ads where I bought used office furniture and air purifiers...for pennies on the dollar, and then just advertise in the same newspapers, and sell for about half of retail.

                                  A few hundred thousand there in a year.
                                  Why do I stop doing these things, if they are so lucrative? Economies change, demand changes, host companies dry up...and I get lazy.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    First, I think this is a great contribution to this discussion.
                                    The only reason I would put joint venture ahead of these, is that it's more certain. Meaning, I think most people, with enough training, could make it their business, and there are ways to guarantee that it's profitable. (for both parties).

                                    Another way to generate huge money is to use the idea from the book How I Made $1,000,000 in Mail Order-and You Can Too! by E. Joseph Cossman. And that way is to find a product that isn't being marketed well, and simply buy the company...or license the product...or become a partner with the owner....and you market the product a new and better way.

                                    That is another method that can take some time, without real rewards. But like owning a great patent (or being the inventor) when you hit, you can hit big.

                                    Out of all these ideas, I still like the joint venture idea the most.

                                    As a salesman, I used some of the ideas in joint venture marketing o greatly multiply my sales...using customer lists for related products, seeing list of people that already bought something else in the media I used....lists of customers that I could just take over.

                                    I bought a list of 5,000 buyers of the vacuum cleaner I mainly sell, from a store that went out of business...extremely lucrative. I only paid a dollar for each customer record. It took me a few years to call through them ( I did it myself). I got almost 500 new sales out of it, at about a grand each.

                                    For a few years, I also bought installment finance contracts from a direct sales organization (eventually three such organizations). These were sales that had their credit declined. I would buy the contracts for about 30% of the sale price. Some I financed myself, and some I sold to specialty finance companies that gave me between 50-80% of the contract price.

                                    The only reason I stopped is that the sales organizations shrunk until it wasn't really a business anymore. These were in home sales organizations...and that kind of business is getting scarce now.

                                    You could also make a small fortune buying something in closeouts..or factory seconds...and selling on E-Bay. Before E-Bay (or at least before I was aware of it) I had newspaper ads where I bought used office furniture and air purifiers...for pennies on the dollar, and then just advertise in the same newspapers, and sell for about half of retail.

                                    A few hundred thousand there in a year.
                                    Why do I stop doing these things, if they are so lucrative? Economies change, demand changes, host companies dry up...and I get lazy.
                                    Right on. AND can be started at lower hanging limbs for experience and faster, albeit probably smaller profits. I believe the very FASTEST profit out there is to sell something.

                                    You can buy in AM, sell in PM, stash the cash. But as for BEST game, it takes continuous effort. Not arguing, agreeing, JV is the best game for the inexperienced. Make the dough while you roll.

                                    AND, there are a lot of games out there for the guy who wants to work, and I got old, so not too interested in chasing, they have to come to me now.

                                    GordonJ

                                    PS Big world outside of WF, Internet.
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                          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                            Our primary service is that we help businesses grow through direct response marketing. Mostly email and direct mail.
                            What is the shortest way to get this set up? What is the minimum skill threshold/checklist required?

                            Do you consider yourself to be copywriter? I was always kind of under the impression that copywriting was a slow craft to learn. But you posts seems to imply the contrary.
                            Is that what you meant to convey or am I mistaken?

                            I'm not sure if you mean this to be a secret(?), it's just to get from A to B from reading your posts is not all that clear to me.

                            Secondary services: We help systemise the business. We help owner extract themselves from the business thus making it more saleable. We help ailing businesses recover. We help to sell businesses or prepare for sale. We've helped people start businesses. We help them licence their systems to other businesses.

                            The only restriction I have in JVs is it must be legal and ethical...
                            So you sideline as a management consultant/business broker.

                            How do you select an industry you want to work in if you have no specialist skills beyond marketing?

                            How do you find out what those people want beyond the obvious (more money,clients,etc?)? Do you read things like trade publications? How do you gather information if you are not cold calling?

                            Do you see yourself as part of your community? Or is it more like a loose association people with mutual self-interests?
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                        • Profile picture of the author animal44
                          I'll take some of this out into it's own thread and answer some of the things raised separately. Might be a little later...

                          Originally Posted by Nathan Isaac View Post

                          The other sales person finds out they're looking for a used car.
                          The sales person says, "Great, well did you know that there are six things you should be looking for when buying a used car?"
                          Client says, "No, please tell me more"
                          Customers tend to already be well educated on their potential purchase. If they walk into your showroom it says they're already interested. They don't need educating. They need someone who understands their needs and can reassure them.

                          Questions I'd ask would be:
                          What do you drive now?
                          What do you like about it?
                          What don't you like about it?
                          Why are you changing?

                          These tell you what is on their mind. Once you know that, it's pretty easy to empathise and reassure. Then the sale become almost certain...
                          Originally Posted by Jack Russell View Post

                          What kind of idiot would set out to try and fake it till they make it and risk false claims to build a business? Charletain comes to mind.
                          Believe it or not, one well respected member on here did advise that...!

                          Originally Posted by Jack Russell View Post

                          Everytime I get significant results for a client in my space I send a letter to other niche prospects with a message along the lines of "I helped eg. Howland Tire Shop get a 67% increase in profits in less than 60 days for no risk and no cost...Would you like me to do the same for you?" This works like gangbusters for non proximate, non competing tire stores (as an example). Always tie in a testimonial from your client or numerous clients preferably, then an offer to talk on how to achieve similar results for your prospect and I guarantee you they will answer your follow up call.
                          We've done something similar, except via referral. We'd interview client just after we've awed them and write a referral based on their answers, then they'd send it to their associates...

                          If you follow the example of Paddi Lund, referral only Ozzie dentist. At first meeting of new client he goes through what they can expect from him and what he expects from client. You include an expectation of x number of referrals. You won't always get them from everyone, but you'll get enough to keep you busy...
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                        • Another facet of "Positioning yourself as an expert" is creating the image that there is huge demand for your services. This is one area where you can "fake it till you make it".

                          If you use language that indicates that you are in high demand, you are much more likely to become..really in demand.

                          Of course, you have to really be an expert. But letting people know that you are available, but hard to get....is mandatory if you want clients to pursue you.


                          Have you ever seen an actor on a talk show? They talk about how they considered the roll, and the reason they took it is because the role is fascinating...and the choice of director swayed them into accepting the roll.

                          Why do they do that? Because if they said that they went to several auditions...casting calls, and were taking the roll because it was the only one they could get....less people would want to see them on screen. Bad positioning.

                          Even when I was selling in people's homes...I used language that indicated that most people bought from me, and the demand for my product was greater than the supply. Sometimes it was true, and other times it was not...but the image had to be kept.

                          As distasteful as all this gamesmanship is to me, it increased sales quite a lot. And from the front of the room while speaking? It was absolutely required, if I wanted to make any sales.

                          Why is all this true? Because everyone wants what they think everyone else has...Because customers pursued...run away. And the best way to get someone to chase you, is to act like you are starting to run away from them....and behave like other people are chasing you.

                          Children know this. Animals know this. when they play

                          And now we do.
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                          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Why is all this true? Because everyone wants what they think everyone else has...Because customers pursued...run away. And the best way to get someone to chase you, is to act like you are starting to run away from them....and behave like other people are chasing you.

                            Children know this. Animals know this. when they play

                            And now we do.
                            Haha. I do not understand but often wonder about this as it seems to extend to all facet of human existence. From love to sale to pop music to simple schoolyard friendships.

                            I so dislike this game, it is such a waste of time for everyone involved.

                            From one of my favourite novels:

                            Originally Posted by Spring Snow by Yukio Mishima

                            Why do we reject those who show us affection? Why do we continue to pursue those who offer us no encouragement?This sudden cheerfulness took Honda by surprise, and he craned his neck for a better look. Aware that Kiyoakis high spirits were by now a reflex response to the interruption of his dreams, Honda did not mind his friend seizing the initiative. Who is it? Oh, its Satoko. Did I never show you her picture? answered Kiyoaki, speaking her name with cool indifference. Satoko, the girl on the shore, was certainly a beauty. Kiyoaki, however, seemed determined to ignore this. For he knew that Satoko was in love with him. This instinctive rejection of anyone who showed him affection, this need to react with cold disdain, were a failing of Kiyoakis that no one could known better than Honda, who saw this pride as a kind of tumor that had taken hold of Kiyoaki when he was no more than thirteen and had first had to endure people making a fuss over his looks. Like a silvery bloom of mold, it would spread at the slightest touch. Perhaps, in fact, the dangerous attraction that Kiyoakis friendship held for Honda was rooted in the same impulse. So many others had attempted to befriend Kiyoaki, only to be rewarded for their pains with his mockery and contempt. In challenging Kiyoakis caustic reserve, Honda alone had been skilled enough to escape disaster.
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                            • Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                              Haha. I do not understand but often wonder about this as it seems to extend to all facet of human existence. From love to sale to pop music to simple schoolyard friendships.

                              I so dislike this game, it is such a waste of time for everyone involved.

                              From one of my favourite novels:
                              I dislike the game too, but it's because it means I'm like everyone else...locked into a social dance. Slave to our animal impulses and social rituals.

                              But the fact that I don't like it, doesn't stop me from studying it...and using it to my advantage. And it shouldn't stop you either.
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                      • Profile picture of the author animal44
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        No, Halbert made $149 million as a salesman. Copywriting is selling. And when he spoke at seminars, selling consulting and copywriting services...that was selling.
                        Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

                        You took the words right out of my mouth. The Gary Halbert "coat of arms" letter (for example) was brilliant salesmanship, mass produced.
                        So, I'll just finish with a quote from John E. Kennedy... "Advertising is Salesmanship in print."
                        Are you sure it's salesmanship? or is it saleswomanship? I better watch how I handle my sales letters - would want to be sued for inappropriate touching, sexual discrimination or such like...

                        Nice misdirection as usual...

                        The point is you don't have to be a great salesman. You don't have to spend twenty years selling vacuum cleaners, in order to make money. All you really need is a clear message to a targeted audience...

                        And yes, I know, you then become a salesman

                        Edited to add: My star protege had no sales experience, yet she earned some 4 million last year. Put her on Claude's shop floor and I'm pretty sure that she'd fail to sell anything... (though she is pretty resourceful, and might surprise me )
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                        • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Put her on Claude's shop floor and I'm pretty sure that she'd fail to sell anything... (though she is pretty resourceful, and might surprise me )
                          Look.

                          Claude's shop floor is spotless.

                          The only people down there are prospects trying to see if there is any remnant of pet hair or other lint but Claude knows better than that.

                          He has a special section left intentionally grubby for that fastidious shopper who wants to know what the best vacuum is to clean up after a youth has gone through Rumspringa.

                          This is one uniqueness of Claude's location coupled with his messianic attention to cleanliness.

                          Any other salesperson entering the arena must first overcome the shadow of the master and that position is usually starting fully prostate awaiting enlightenment before they progress to genuflection, then to the kowtow position before finally assuming the salesmanship position.

                          This is a rather unique position where masters transcend the sales process and enter the prospects mind usually by wiggling their way in through the ear canal.

                          Once inside the prospects mind the real duel begins with the expert achieving dominance and then feigning defeat to gain empathy from the prospect.

                          Then once the prospect is wired into the cortex of the Whitacre then their fate is sealed.

                          Now it is only matter of time, availability of credit or the transference process where wallets are hoovered and the climax is reached.

                          It is indeed a unique experience and a unique place to experience the experience.

                          Next time you are in his neck of the woods make sure you pay a visit.

                          Best regards,

                          Ozi
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                          • Profile picture of the author animal44

                            Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                            Next time you are in his neck of the woods make sure you pay a visit.
                            After that description, I think they need to announce a 100 mile exclusion zone...!

                            I need a cure for jetlag. It's 02:00 am and I'm wide awake...
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                            • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                              After that description, I think they need to announce a 100 mile exclusion zone...!
                              I think there is an exclusion zone already.

                              Claude might correct me if I'm wrong but the only other sucker business within the exclusion zone is the Drakes of Duck's and Drakes Fame who have fantastic parking.

                              When Claude is run off his feet and his repair department is backed up for weeks then this is the place Woosterians go to get their suction back.

                              I'd guess they are best of friends as all local business competitors are.

                              Claude however has more videos and a bigger car park. . . I think.

                              Best regards,

                              Ozi
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                        • Profile picture of the author SARubin
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Are you sure it's salesmanship? or is it saleswomanship? I better watch how I handle my sales letters - would want to be sued for inappropriate touching, sexual discrimination or such like...

                          Nice misdirection as usual...

                          The point is you don't have to be a great salesman. You don't have to spend twenty years selling vacuum cleaners, in order to make money. All you really need is a clear message to a targeted audience...

                          And yes, I know, you then become a salesman
                          I absolutely agree. You don't have to spend twenty years selling vacuum cleaners. (just for the record... my "Kirby" vacuum sales career only lasted around 6 months, back when I was 18 years old )

                          However, being a salesman (saleswoman?) is a great way to learn the selling process, first hand. And that can only help when it comes to writing sales messages.

                          Although I do seem to be getting a bit off topic. The original post was about "How to position yourself as an expert?" So I'll just finish with a quote I heard years ago...

                          "To be considered an expert, you only need to know more about the subject, than the people you're talking to."
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                • Profile picture of the author eccj
                  Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                  I disagree.

                  If you're out in the desert with a cart load of bottled water and you come across someone dying of thirst who has a bag of gold, you won't have to be much of a salesman to exchange a bottle of water for the bag of gold.

                  Take the same cart load of bottled water outside the local supermarket and you'll struggle, even if you're a great salesman...

                  It's all down to the offer. And the targeted audience.

                  Now let's say two people with a cart load of bottled water come across the dying man. What most salesmen do is sacrifice some profit or commission. Two bottles for the same price or one bottle for half price. Then there's a price war. Lowering profits.

                  What does Animal do? Animal offers the bottle of water for the bag of gold and as a bonus a free seat in his air conditioned Range Rover to take him back to civilisation...

                  Who do you think gets the sale...? No sales ability needed...

                  That's marketing. Understanding and articulating your audience's needs and offering them a solution... Do this properly and the salesman becomes an order taker...

                  Back to positioning... IMHO it has little to do with product knowledge or salesmanship. It's all to do with connecting with the person. Understanding their wants needs, fears and desires. When someone believes you are there to help them rather than sell them something, then they'll see you as their expert.
                  This thing just keeps getting weirder and weider

                  So a leader has to make a good offer.

                  "Follow me if you want to live. We have bottled water."
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                  • Profile picture of the author DABK
                    You are correct, someone bad at sales with a great offer can do well.
                    So, what? It doesn't take away (or add) to this: "the best informed salesmen who is a lousy salesman will under perform a great salesman who knows next to nothing about his product." But you're right.

                    Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                    I'd say the bad salesman, if he had a better offer. Say a brochure doing a Schlitz beer type explanation of where the water came from and how pure it was. And maybe a bonus... a trip to Disneyland? or maybe more realistically, a prize draw trip to Disneyland, or maybe a free glass with the bottle of water, or a discount coupon at the supermarket... Whatever the audience would see as valuable...

                    Gary Halbert made $140 million dollars without a salesman... How many of the salespeople on here come close to that?
                    Leaders who make bad offers are not leaders for long... Lenin did not say, Make me rich and I'll kill a bunch of you for no reason. He said, Freedom and liberty for all of you who suffer.... And no more going hungry. No more watching your kids suffer from hunger.

                    For instance.

                    Originally Posted by eccj View Post

                    This thing just keeps getting weirder and weider

                    So a leader has to make a good offer.

                    "Follow me if you want to live. We have bottled water."
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                    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                      Leaders who make bad offers are not leaders for long... Lenin did not say, Make me rich and I'll kill a bunch of you for no reason. He said, Freedom and liberty for all of you who suffer.... And no more going hungry. No more watching your kids suffer from hunger.

                      For instance.
                      How about Islam Karimov or Ramzan Kadyrov, they did pretty well for apparatchiks.

                      or King Faisal, he was rumored to be richer then Jay Abraham (albeit it could have been a PR stunt on Faisal's part)
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                      • Profile picture of the author DABK
                        You lost me. I'm afraid I ain't a very learned person.

                        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                        How about Islam Karimov or Ramzan Kadyrov, they did pretty well for apparatchiks.

                        or King Faisal, he was rumored to be richer then Jay Abraham (albeit it could have been a PR stunt on Faisal's part)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I don't know why I keep being tempted to reply here, and then don't...

    For what it's worth... Here is a metaphor...

    It's like "content". You can have all the traffic in the world, and a guy with ten percent of your traffic can have 100 times the customers you have , because he converts, because he is convincing, and his words carry their own merit.

    If you want to position yourself as an expert, the best route is to just BE one... If you are, then go out ANYWHERE that your market is... then just open your mouth and talk.
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  • Everyone wants to be seen as the Expert in their field, especially now on social media. So the question is, how do you position yourself as an expert on social media? For established brick and mortar businesses it would appear to be easy, or at least the possibility of it seems very plausible. You are experienced, you have been around for a long time; you even have a consistent and even sizeable customer base. You extensively know about your product or service and you know about customer service for your brand. You are an EXPERT.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Bridgen
    I would give out free information to solve problems in your market. Be yourself but give information that is yours It will take time but you will build trust. Robert
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  • Some really great advice here!!! Thanks everyone for sharing, as I took a lot from this thread!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Bridgen
    Find the problem Solve the problem put in front of the people that have the problem is all you have to do Rtobert
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    one word, "Confidence"
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

    You are correct, someone bad at sales with a great offer can do well.
    So, what? It doesn't take away (or add) to this: "the best informed salesmen who is a lousy salesman will under perform a great salesman who knows next to nothing about his product." But you're right.
    Well, OP asks:
    Originally Posted by Will Iam View Post

    When trying to sell your services or promote your business, how can you effectively position yourself as a winning option and a leader in your industry?
    You don't need to be an expert

    You don't need to be a great salesman

    You don't need to plaster your name all over the internet.

    You simply need a good offer... to the right audience. The rest follows naturally...
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    • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      You simply need a good offer... to the right audience. The rest follows naturally...
      As long as you also remember a few simple things.

      People like to buy but they don't like to be sold to.

      The best performers let people buy easily and ease the process rather than inhibit it.

      Recently I watched a great sale come undone (but not totally lost) by one of my better sales people by including additional services and products they thought the customer would value.

      Once the customer had extracted what the value was for those services they promptly requested for those services be removed and the price be adjusted accordingly.

      The sales person had offered the additional benefits with their compliments and in most situations this wouldn't have caused any issue but in this circumstance they got caught in a negotiation where the purchaser was more experienced at negotiation and knew how to leverage the situation.

      It was a great lesson to watch unfold.

      The sale was made and the sales person immediately discussed how they were "roped in ' to offering a concession having had the upper hand and being apparently in control of the sale at each stage.

      There are some things you can't teach people unless they have experienced it for themselves.

      Experts may not end up in these situations or they may have encountered them on their journey but it is good to see future star performers challenged knowing they have learned the lesson and improved their own abilities.

      Best regards,

      Ozi
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post


      You simply need a good offer... to the right audience. The rest follows naturally...
      Helps if the timing is right too.

      Example: Woman sees a great offer for a weight loss program.
      Not interested.

      4 weeks later she buys it..

      Why now?

      Because it's her sisters wedding and her ex is going to be there
      so she wants to look hot and make him feel what he's missed out on.

      True story by the way, as told to me by her.

      Something triggers self motivation to take action in a person's life.

      Why does a married man suddenly buy a king sized bed now
      when that great bed offer been in front of him before?

      It had very little to do with the offer but everything to do with timing.

      He just got back travelling and staying in nice hotels.

      He never realized how a good bed can give him an extra hours sleep and wake up refreshed.
      So off he goes and buy a hotel like bed.

      Great product/service + right message + right person + right time.

      I've also added the great product/service too because
      it gives more opportunities to create a great message.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    If you compare a ferrari to a lada for the same price. Well, yes, I don't think even Crassus would be able to do anything with it.

    What is missing in the discussion is that it is usually not 100% obvious which is the better product.

    But even in B2C, pricing is not always readily available else the selling company would have no negotiating room. No one has perfect information.

    With equal offers (sometimes not even),the better salesman win.
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  • Profile picture of the author heterpack
    the only way to connect with your people, increase traffic to your site, and establish yourself towards the subject matter
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    You know what's even better than doing a TED talk?

    Actually running a regional TED chapter and producing the sell out shows in your region.

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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    As has already been mentioned write a book. Simpler is to write a report tightly targeted to that niche. Do a few of those on different topics and you'll have enough content for a book.

    Write an article for an industry newsletter or website (that's easier than you think if you're the only marketer targeting a niche...they will eat your advice on marketing in their niche up).

    Get introduced personally or have letters sent from a successful client in the niche to introduce you.

    This is the foundation of credibility...being introduced and recommended by someone in the industry they know and trust.

    You might also be introduced and recommended by a business networking leader, or a member of government or a pastor...think out of the box about who might be able to recommend you.

    Remember there are only 6 degrees of separation between you and anyone else in the world.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Build Large Social Media Following on all Platforms. Provide Good Content, Blog and Make Videos.
    That's a good start there.
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    • Profile picture of the author ballisticscan
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      Build Large Social Media Following on all Platforms. Provide Good Content, Blog and Make Videos.
      That's a good start there.
      This is what I've been doing precisely.
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      • Profile picture of the author BBryanB
        I think you already have the answer, If you have to " position " yourself as an expert, you have already basically declared yourself, NOT one.

        You know in your heart, you are not an expert, if you were, you would already have the confidence and the expertise and have zero need to try to position yourself as one.

        Your need to " position" yourself as an expert unfortunately seems to be the norm on the Internet, you are not an expert, know you are not, but what the hell, lets just " position" ourselves as such and away we go !!!!

        Why not just earn the title of expert, know you REALLY are one, and do it the right way??

        Regards
        Bryan
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        • Originally Posted by BBryanB View Post

          I think you already have the answer, If you have to " position " yourself as an expert, you have already basically declared yourself, NOT one.

          You know in your heart, you are not an expert, if you were, you would already have the confidence and the expertise and have zero need to try to position yourself as one.

          Your need to " position" yourself as an expert unfortunately seems to be the norm on the Internet, you are not an expert, know you are not, but what the hell, lets just " position" ourselves as such and away we go !!!!

          Why not just earn the title of expert, know you REALLY are one, and do it the right way??

          Regards
          Bryan


          Of course, but positioning yourself as an expert is more about how you let people know that you are an expert...outside your clientele..as a marketing strategy.

          You know that saying "build a better mousetrap and the would will beat a path to your door"? It isn't true. Being an expert doesn't help anyone...if nobody knows about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Russell
    These are all valid points and thanks to all for sharing.

    From my own experience/point of view, Expert, Authority, Leader, whatever you think you need to establish yourself as is really irrelevant. People will always come to their own conclusions based on what resonates with their own understanding of a given subject, thus you will always be judged.

    Anyone can write a book, give a speech, have a "platform". Who gives a shit?

    What results do you have that can prove without a doubt you can substantiate the claims you make?

    If you have cold hard facts/numbers, they don't lie or pontificate.

    If I work with retailers for instance and have a proven system that increases profits by 30% and has done so for at least 13 different clients (which is consistent), then anyone in the retail space may consider me an expert based on RESULTS.

    Folks, this isn't rocket science. Results speak for themselves. Get testimonials and build upon those to become a leader in your niche locally then branch out from there to go National then Global, whatever. It's a stepping stone approach that works.

    RESULTS make you an expert. Concentrate on going above and beyond to achieve phenominal outcomes for your clients/niche market and you will become the go to person worthy of expert status.

    Good luck,

    Jack
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    • Originally Posted by Jack Russell View Post

      These are all valid points and thanks to all for sharing.

      From my own experience/point of view, Expert, Authority, Leader, whatever you think you need to establish yourself as is really irrelevant. People will always come to their own conclusions based on what resonates with their own understanding of a given subject, thus you will always be judged.

      Anyone can write a book, give a speech, have a "platform". Who gives a shit?

      What results do you have that can prove without a doubt you can substantiate the claims you make?

      If you have cold hard facts/numbers, they don't lie or pontificate.

      If I work with retailers for instance and have a proven system that increases profits by 30% and has done so for at least 13 different clients (which is consistent), then anyone in the retail space may consider me an expert based on RESULTS.

      Folks, this isn't rocket science. Results speak for themselves. Get testimonials and build upon those to become a leader in your niche locally then branch out from there to go National then Global, whatever. It's a stepping stone approach that works.

      RESULTS make you an expert. Concentrate on going above and beyond to achieve phenominal outcomes for your clients/niche market and you will become the go to person worthy of expert status.

      Good luck,

      Jack

      I believe all that was a given. If you position yourself as an expert, but are incompetent, all your positioning and promotion just speeds up the process of everyone finding out that you are a fool.

      "Fake it till you make it" rhymes....and sounds pithy...but as business advice, it's about as bad as you can get. Become a real expert, and then set about promoting yourself as one.

      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

      I absolutely agree. You don't have to spend twenty years selling vacuum cleaners. (just for the record... my "Kirby" vacuum sales career only lasted around 6 months, back when I was 18 years old )
      It's not the time spent, it's the constant testing of new ideas, the constant improvement of your results. Implementing marketing and copywriting principles (like testing your message) gave me the largest boost in my sales results.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jack Russell
        Become a REAL expert and then set about promoting yourself as one. Yep, that's a given Claude. Profound, eh.

        What kind of idiot would set out to try and fake it till they make it and risk false claims to build a business? Charletain comes to mind.

        Remember, all you need is one successful client. Easy enough?

        Here's what has worked for me.

        Everytime I get significant results for a client in my space I send a letter to other niche prospects with a message along the lines of "I helped eg. Howland Tire Shop get a 67% increase in profits in less than 60 days for no risk and no cost...Would you like me to do the same for you?" This works like gangbusters for non proximate, non competing tire stores (as an example). Always tie in a testimonial from your client or numerous clients preferably, then an offer to talk on how to achieve similar results for your prospect and I guarantee you they will answer your follow up call.

        It's called credibility stacking/social proof...or becoming the obvious expert in marketing speak.

        Did I need to drive traffic to a webinar, spend weeks writing a book or months building a platform? Hell no, I licked some postage stamps and looked up a few businesses online and sent out targeted mailings and followed up. Works exceptionally for me folks. Tested and proven. In fact if you want to one up it-send them Fed Ex.

        Nothing new here, basic trump's brainyness.

        My two cents.

        Jack
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  • Profile picture of the author aligouda
    Obtain the type of knowledge that will turn you into an expert.
    Like experience, knowledge is an often-overlooked component of people who attempt to build a brand as an expert. You must have actual knowledge of something before others will view you as an expert.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by aligouda View Post

      You must have actual knowledge of something before others will view you as an expert.
      Unfortunately, that sounds great but is far from true. You must be able to give the impression that you have actual knowledge of something and the ability to back it up with a modicum of knowledge before others will view you as an expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Isaac
    Originally Posted by Will Iam View Post

    This is both an online and an offline marketing question, but I think it really applies to both realms so I'm asking it here. When trying to sell your services or promote your business, how can you effectively position yourself as a winning option and a leader in your industry? If you've ever walked into an establishment to offer services for SEO, web design or some other type of marketer, you probably had to sell yourself one way or another.

    You can sell yourself based on your past experiences - "I was the head of marketing at a big company for some time and based on my experience I can get these results for you" but you can also sell them your services based on their actual problems, which requires doing a bit of homework but pays dividends when the prospect realizes that you really understand what problems they face on a daily basis.

    What other strategies can you use to sell yourself on the spot to a prospective client? Doing homework or research in their niche works great but is there a better way that I'm missing that could help me show even more credibility? Any ideas or input would be appreciated.

    You educate them.

    They don't care about you or your history in the initial contacts.

    They want to know that you care more about them, than the sale.

    Example:

    Someone walks into the car dealership.
    The sales person asks what they're looking for.
    Starts showing them cars, prices and going test drives, then starts crunching numbers.
    They really push for the sale.


    The other sales person finds out they're looking for a used car.
    The sales person says, "Great, well did you know that there are six things you should be looking for when buying a used car?"
    Client says, "No, please tell me more"

    Educating them, you show that you are an expert in the field.

    Educating them shows you care about them more than the dale.

    Educating them puts you at the top of the list when they decide to buy. That's when they'll ask about you and your results.
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  • Profile picture of the author Best Seller
    Originally Posted by Will Iam View Post

    What other strategies can you use to sell yourself on the spot to a prospective client? Doing homework or research in their niche works great but is there a better way that I'm missing that could help me show even more credibility? Any ideas or input would be appreciated.
    A common answer many people post is, "Publish a book." It's a great answer, but it's incomplete.

    Pretty much anyone can publish a book nowadays. The key is to have that book stand out among the rest of the books within the same genre. You can do this with consistent online/social media marketing (all forms of advertising) and you can also do this by having that book reviewed by reputable reviewers (valuable forms of publicity).
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Or use the book as a business card.

      Or send qualify prospects a copy of your book.

      Or... A good imagination is useful here.

      Originally Posted by Best Seller View Post

      A common answer many people post is, "Publish a book." It's a great answer, but it's incomplete.

      Pretty much anyone can publish a book nowadays. The key is to have that book stand out among the rest of the books within the same genre. You can do this with consistent online/social media marketing (all forms of advertising) and you can also do this by having that book reviewed by reputable reviewers (valuable forms of publicity).
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      • Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        Or use the book as a business card.

        Or send qualify prospects a copy of your book.

        Or... A good imagination is useful here.
        Buy the book Money Phone!: How to Turn Your Smartphone into a Six Figure Money-Making Marketing Machine and Close BIG Deals Quickly and Easily with Mobile Text and Video Marketing by Mike Koenigs. Buy the paperback for $4. Yes, it's a good book. But the reason you're buying the book is to see how an expert marketer uses a cheap paperback book as a sales letter for his other services.

        Here's a link;
        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

        No, this isn't an affiliate link. This book will show you, by example....how to use a book as a combination business card and sales brochure. The book establishes credibility, promotes the author and is marketing that qualifies the prospect (because you already invested a few dollars to buy the book).....and actually makes a small profit. Marketing that pays, before anyone even buys from you.
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          In my dealings with people who own/market businesses, lack of imagination is a big problem. Not in the sense that most people think, not like, they cannot come up with send a copy of my book with the package to likely buyers. In the sense that, because they are so sure they know what work and does not, they stop imagining alternatives.

          If they can't imagine themselves having success with a book, they will do nothing about getting a book written, let alone published and sent to prospects.

          Or they will do thinks half-assed style, then declare that books don't work in marketing.

          Very strange how many people who own a business do not bother to look realistically at their options, to do some research, open their minds.

          Had a brief conversation with a guy who sells mid-level art. Told me a few years ago, he had 2 front stores. Now, he's doing it all from home, over the internet. Everything's changed except one thing: he does not know which of his marketing dollars are producing his results. "Used to be you put an ad in the paper, in the Yellow pages, and such and you got sales, but you did not know which ad got you the sales. Now you put up banners here and there and all of them claim the sale, you don't know which ad works.

          Two sisters are opening a bridal dresses store. They have $70k for marketing. They're very eager to pay some website an absurd amount of money.Because that's what you do, it's all about getting the photos seen. (As if, there's no other way to get them seen, as if, even if that was the website to be on (it's not), all you need is pay the site owner money, the rest will take care of itself. And, of course, they'd close most of the leads. Because one of them works now in a bridal store and closes about 25% of the will-be-brides that walk in. No strategy, a few tactics, a lot of wishful thinking and flawed comparisons.

          A lot of the same goes with positioning yourself as an expert. From the ones who say, "I am an expert. If they hire me, they will see it." to the ones who say, "Expert, schmexpert. You tell them what they want to hear, you're the expert."

          Falling back on my old business, real estate appraisals. If I told some guy his house was worth $400,000 because that's what he wanted to hear, I'd be an expert till the guy next door, with identical house, could sell his for only $325,000. Then, I'd be bad-mouthed, at best; sued, at worst.

          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Buy the book Money Phone!: How to Turn Your Smartphone into a Six Figure Money-Making Marketing Machine and Close BIG Deals Quickly and Easily with Mobile Text and Video Marketing by Mike Koenigs. Buy the paperback for $4. Yes, it's a good book. But the reason you're buying the book is to see how an expert marketer uses a cheap paperback book as a sales letter for his other services.

          Here's a link;
          https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

          No, this isn't an affiliate link. This book will show you, by example....how to use a book as a combination business card and sales brochure. The book establishes credibility, promotes the author and is marketing that qualifies the prospect (because you already invested a few dollars to buy the book).....and actually makes a small profit. Marketing that pays, before anyone even buys from you.
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          • Originally Posted by DABK View Post

            In my dealings with people who own/market businesses, lack of imagination is a big problem. Not in the sense that most people think, not like, they cannot come up with send a copy of my book with the package to likely buyers. In the sense that, because they are so sure they know what work and does not, they stop imagining alternatives.

            If they can't imagine themselves having success with a book, they will do nothing about getting a book written, let alone published and sent to prospects.

            Or they will do thinks half-assed style, then declare that books don't work in marketing.
            It's not just business owners, it's humans in general. We learn a few things about marketing/advertising/promotion/selling...and we then think we "Know" it. And what we "know" eventually becomes hardwired in us as a certainty.

            A friend of mine had a mattress store. He had a great selection, his prices were the lowest in the area...he advertised constantly, and he was going under. He asked me for advice.

            I told him "You are only advertising the cheapest mattresses at the lowest price. You are only bringing in the lowest price shopper...and the least profitable shopper. You need to include the better mattresses to attract the quality shopper too"

            He said "No. Nobody comes in for the better mattresses. They all want the cheapest mattresses at the lowest price.

            Me "No. You are only attracting the shopper looking for the cheapest mattress at the lowest price...and nobody else. You need to change your advertising. i can show you how"

            Him; "Maybe if I advertised more often"

            See? It was impossible to get through to him, and of course he want out of business.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jack Russell
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              It's not just business owners, it's humans in general. We learn a few things about marketing/advertising/promotion/selling...and we then think we "Know" it. And what we "know" eventually becomes hardwired in us as a certainty.

              A friend of mine had a mattress store. He had a great selection, his prices were the lowest in the area...he advertised constantly, and he was going under. He asked me for advice.

              I told him "You are only advertising the cheapest mattresses at the lowest price. You are only bringing in the lowest price shopper...and the least profitable shopper. You need to include the better mattresses to attract the quality shopper too"

              He said "No. Nobody comes in for the better mattresses. They all want the cheapest mattresses at the lowest price.

              Me "No. You are only attracting the shopper looking for the cheapest mattress at the lowest price...and nobody else. You need to change your advertising. i can show you how"

              Him; "Maybe if I advertised more often"

              See? It was impossible to get through to him, and of course he want out of business.
              Hmmm...Maybe y'all should be schooling these folks on the importance of a fundamental, always essential USP to differentiate and appropriate their preeminent status in their marketplace. If you build it they will come, some wise man said.

              Man, this post is getting waylaid.

              Funny how this thread has gone from commenting/trying assist on the OP's query to an ongoing dick-waving fest as to how veteran warriors and self proclaimed experts here want to substantiate their claims and otherwise ill fated attempts to actually have a results proven answer to the initial question at hand.

              Case studies anyone? Let's hear it or perhaps we should move on to something more concrete.

              Peace and Progress.
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              • Profile picture of the author DABK
                Funny how u did not add anything concrete, no?

                As regards schooling, Why? I cannot possibly school all in need of schooling, not profitable.

                Anyway, my concrete was to write and publish a book and use it to position yourself as an expert.

                My other concrete was: pick the right clients; there r people out there who will just waste your time or worse, diminish the results of your positioning efforts.

                Where is your concrete advice?

                [ QUOTE=Jack Russell;11016390]Hmmm...Maybe y'all should be schooling these folks on the importance of a fundamental, always essential USP to differentiate and appropriate their preeminent status in their marketplace. If you build it they will come, some wise man said.

                Man, this post is getting waylaid.

                Funny how this thread has gone from commenting/trying assist on the OP's query to an ongoing dick-waving fest as to how veteran warriors and self proclaimed experts here want to substantiate their claims and otherwise ill fated attempts to actually have a results proven answer to the initial question at hand.

                Case studies anyone? Let's hear it or perhaps we should move on to something more concrete.

                Peace and Progress.[/QUOTE]
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                • Profile picture of the author Jack Russell
                  Look before you leap mate. First, get "concrete" on what schooling means man.

                  Second, if you know anything about marketing, a USP is Base One in your arsenal.

                  Clearly you missed my previous post well above this one Dab.

                  In fact animal44 concerred-wisely. He obviously gets it...And aplies it when
                  It comes to stairstepping results into testimonials and case studies to garner
                  credibility that gets future prospects predisposed to do business with you in
                  your given niche based on actuall results/proof and thus reputation ( expertise ).

                  Obviously his referrals - not to mention my own speak for themselves.

                  Now that's concrete. No ltterary hyperbole needed.

                  Perhaps you'd like to share a link to one of your concrete expert "books" that
                  proves without a doubt you say what you can do, you actually DO. Maybe we
                  can all take a page from that, learn something new, and model it.

                  Would love to have a read mate, bring it on.

                  Regards,

                  Jack
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    • Originally Posted by Best Seller View Post

      A common answer many people post is, "Publish a book." It's a great answer, but it's incomplete.

      Pretty much anyone can publish a book nowadays. The key is to have that book stand out among the rest of the books within the same genre. You can do this with consistent online/social media marketing (all forms of advertising) and you can also do this by having that book reviewed by reputable reviewers (valuable forms of publicity).
      Yes, anyone CAN but how many do? How many small business owners are pitched by a published author that drops a hard copy of the book on their desk?
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      • Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        Yes, anyone CAN but how many do? How many small business owners are pitched by a published author that drops a hard copy of the book on their desk?
        Almost none. But you can get a thin paperback book published on Amazon, and buy copies for about $2 each.

        The book would be used as a "trip wire" offer, just something for the business to ask for. Or to be sent as a gift, just before the appointment.

        I used my book The Unfair Advantage Small Business Advertising Manual as a free gift, to every attendee of my speeches. I also gave them to prospects as a gift, when I was going to talk to them about local online marketing.

        I never assumed anyone read it. It was used to establish authority.
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  • Profile picture of the author domainer45
    Clients care about one thing , themselves. Tell them what they want to hear and your an expert. Done. I don't use the template to contact people. I try to make them personal to an individuals needs. Your abilities to sell yourself far out way what you can do on the keys.
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  • Profile picture of the author JhonyIsaacs
    If we experts any field, then we should need study more and more. Research related and sometime non-related topic on this field.
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  • Here's one idea: Before you do a book, do a TED talk.
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