Internet Marketing VS Network Marketing

by noobz 63 replies
Last night I was invited to a small meeting and this guy who is in this one Network Marketing company happens to be the speaker. He claimed to make 6 figures in the business. After the lecture was over, everyone had a small group talk and they started passing out sign up forms to collect payment, which I find it odd.

So, the people who invited me that night went to talk to the speaker, and the speaker came up to me trying to convince me to sign up. I told him Network Marketing just isn't my thing. I told him I am a Internet Marketer. I build niche sites and email subscriber base. I specialize in Facebook ads.

The speaker then told me that what I'm doing is wrong - the kind of mentality I have while we were having a dialogue that is.

He brought up Mark Zuckerberg and the little story how Facebook got started when he invited 5 people to his Harvard dorm and only 2 people showed up. Basically he was trying to use that story against me as if I would have missed a wonderful opportunity if I didn't join that night.

I was thinking in my mind "how the heck you make 6 figures and don't know jack about internet marketing, building niche sites and list building, and you telling me what I'm doing is wrong, and the kind of thinking I possessed?"

Truly if he make 6 figures as he claim, he would of understand where I'm going with this. I am surprise this speaker doesn't get it. He started bashing about email list. Then I told him "wouldn't you agree the money is in the list? This apply to every business you're doing." He didn't want to answer me this question and then decided to shake my hand goodbye.

I can't believe I came to that meeting to argue with the speaker.

Tell me. What's the difference between someone who does Network Marketing vs someone who build niche sites, list building, SEO, FB ads etc. Because this speaker doesn't seen to get it. In my opinion, comparing the speaker to me he knows very little about real internet marketing.
#offline marketing #internet #marketing #network
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    they started passing out sign up forms to collect payment, which I find it odd.
    Why would you find that odd? People who HOPED to get you to sign up under them in a 'network marketing opportunity' invited you to a sales seminar - meant to convince people to join that particular company/opportunity. You didn't know that was the purpose?

    Network marketing is usually used to refer to multi-level both online and offline - MaryKay, Avon,Tupperware are 'network marketing' many are familiar with but also the multitude of "multi-level-marketing (mlm)" programs are under the 'network marketing' umbrella.

    Network marketing is a form of internet marketing when conducted online.
    People make money with network marketing and with internet marketing - in hundreds of different ways.

    You were arguing that someone who claims to earn 6 figures - doesn't know what he's doing. He could see you were new and not interested in joining - so no point for him to engage with you further.
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    • Profile picture of the author noobz
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Why would you find that odd? People who HOPED to get you to sign up under them in a 'network marketing opportunity' invited you to a sales seminar - meant to convince people to join that particular company/opportunity. You didn't know that was the purpose?
      Some of the meetings I went to in the past never hand out sign up form expecting you to make payment that night at all.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Network marketing is usually used to refer to multi-level both online and offline - MaryKay, Avon,Tupperware are 'network marketing' many are familiar with but also the multitude of "multi-level-marketing (mlm)" programs are under the 'network marketing' umbrella.
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You were arguing that someone who claims to earn 6 figures - doesn't know what he's doing. He could see you were new and not interested in joining - so no point for him to engage with you further.
      I came prepared and questioned his marketing skills. I even told him what I do too. He told me what I do is wrong, and that the email list one day will die, but with this company you only have 1 shot. Yeah right... what if the company you're under die?? And you don't know about list building? *sigh*

      I assumed the speaker have no knowledge in online marketing. He probably just do the conventional way and speak to people at meetings.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I hear your arguments but (from questions you've asked recently) I think you are arguing points you've read here and elsewhere - rather than from experience.

    There's nothing to gain by arguing that someone else's business method is wrong or by 'assuming' someone else has 'no knowledge'. Once you have built your own business to a highly profitable level, you'll find other marketers ASKING for your opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author noobz
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I hear your arguments but (from questions you've asked recently) I think you are arguing points you've read here and elsewhere - rather than from experience.

      There's nothing to gain by arguing that someone else's business method is wrong or by 'assuming' someone else has 'no knowledge'. Once you have built your own business to a highly profitable level, you'll find other marketers ASKING for your opinion.
      Money is in the list Kay King. The #1 thing people go wrong is not building their list, it's something I would expect to hear from this speaker if he truly understand what he's doing. Network Marketing has a high retention rate and the failure is around 97%. I've been in a few MLM in the past and based on my personal experience it just not worth it. I'd rather promote products for free or create my own digital course and make money by building a list this way and buying traffic. It's just so much faster than phone calling prospect 1 by 1 and chasing people expecting they to buy from you. I know because I've been there and it's frustrated and that's why I don't join company anymore. I don't care how much the speaker is making, or is trying to sugar coat people into joining their company. I don't follow people. Just because someone claim to make a lot of money doesn't mean I have to join their company. Because I know very well that results are not typical and just because the method they used works for them doesn't mean it will work for me. I followed my passion and I do what I believe will get me results my way. I'm not going to depend my success on other people who don't do squat. Man, the way I see MLM is like our earth in the the universe. IM is the universe.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by noobz View Post

        Money is in the list Kay King. The #1 thing people go wrong is not building their list, it's something I would expect to hear from this speaker if he truly understand what he's doing. Network Marketing has a high retention rate and the failure is around 97%. I've been in a few MLM in the past and based on my personal experience it just not worth it. I'd rather promote products for free or create my own digital course and make money by building a list this way and buying traffic. It's just so much faster than phone calling prospect 1 by 1 and chasing people expecting they to buy from you. I know because I've been there and it's frustrated and that's why I don't join company anymore. I don't care how much the speaker is making, or is trying to sugar coat people into joining their company. I don't follow people. Just because someone claim to make a lot of money doesn't mean I have to join their company. Because I know very well that results are not typical and just because the method they used works for them doesn't mean it will work for me. I followed my passion and I do what I believe will get me results my way. I'm not going to depend my success on other people who don't do squat. Man, the way I see MLM is like our earth in the the universe. IM is the universe.
        Now you're regurgitating stuff you've heard. Regarding my network
        marketing career... I have no list. I've never taken the time to build a
        list as you might define it.

        Trust me... you would trade income with me.

        IM is the universe? LOL... IM isn't even a visible spot in the universe.
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    • Profile picture of the author noobz
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I hear your arguments but (from questions you've asked recently) I think you are arguing points you've read here and elsewhere - rather than from experience.

      There's nothing to gain by arguing that someone else's business method is wrong or by 'assuming' someone else has 'no knowledge'. Once you have built your own business to a highly profitable level, you'll find other marketers ASKING for your opinion.
      I started IM since 2010 and have built marketing funnels, squeeze pages, collect my own email list and ran multiple Fb ads. I do all the grunt work myself while you're probably outsourced all your work and have no real skills or talent.

      Granted, I don't have the same level of success some of you guys are having, however, I still gain the experience in IM as some of you. Doesn't make any difference. I know following someone who make a lot of money doesn't mean jack. Results are not typical. Many online marketers don't make money also.. are you to tell them they have no experience?
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    • Profile picture of the author tyronne78
      I love how you put the word 'asking' in all caps,lol.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I hear your arguments but (from questions you've asked recently) I think you are arguing points you've read here and elsewhere - rather than from experience.

      There's nothing to gain by arguing that someone else's business method is wrong or by 'assuming' someone else has 'no knowledge'. Once you have built your own business to a highly profitable level, you'll find other marketers ASKING for your opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    A lot of network marketers are moving in new directions including running ads on Facebook and building their own lists. If their company goes under, they still have their list and can get started quickly with a new company.

    But they are being fought hard by other network marketers who think MLM businesses should only be build with person to person contact. They seem to fear change.

    You were obviously talking to one of the latter group.

    Rose
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    • Profile picture of the author noobz
      Originally Posted by Rose Anderson View Post

      A lot of network marketers are moving in new directions including running ads on Facebook and building their own lists. If their company goes under, they still have their list and can get started quickly with a new company.

      But they are being fought hard by other network marketers who think MLM businesses should only be build with person to person contact. They seem to fear change.

      You were obviously talking to one of the latter group.

      Rose
      Exactly Rose Anderson! That is also something I've told one of my friend who is involve in Network Marketing. I've shown him how to put up a simple site with Wordpress and how to put an optin form on it. But he doesn't want to listen to me. lol. He still thinks writing down a list on paper and making a phone call is still the correct way to do it. I told him the gurus are not building it that way. Your upline is probaby lying to you. Oh well. I used to be a Network Marketers 15 years ago and nobody show me how to build a list. Until 3 years ago when I got started in IM only then I was taught building a list is crucial to online success. The average MLM'ers will not understand IM. They joined MLM because they saw the people, the environment, and do what their sponsor is telling them to do only. In short they are not really marketers. It's like a blogger who blogs but not a marketer. People can join MLM and don't know marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
    I owned a network marketing company for over 20 years. You can Google: Patrick Shelley Nutriharmony

    I sold it nearly 7 years ago and there are still about 100 refs in the serps.

    What you ran into is a case of very poor salesmanship.

    The speaker just wants you in the business. But, just like people recruiting you into their religion, if they are this religion then yours is wrong even though they don't understand it or know anything about it.

    Network marketing can be quite lucrative. But, you also hear the negative that people got into it and went broke. Well, we hear that from many in IM as well.
    Or any type of business for that matter.

    What he should have done when you said you do IM is said GREAT! Here's how you can combine the two and make a fortune.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    There really are still some extremely successful "old school" network marketers building and teaching their downlines using offline methods. These methods still work astoundingly well.

    On the other hand, there are also successful network marketers using mostly "online" methods, and largely ignoring the huge (and barely tapped) offline arena.

    The upshot is that when beginning with a network marketing company, start with the tools and training provided. It is rare to find anyone competent enough to teach a duplicatable marketing system using both online and offline methods.

    What I do for my downline is recommend third party training partners for those who have mastered the basics and seem ready to move up to the next level. Those who won't or can't follow initial training are unceremoniously dismissed from my team.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardworker2013
    The aim of these seminars is usually to get people to buy into a vision or system. These seminars are usually well attended and highly targeted and hence very profitable for the persons keeping the seminar. The effect of having a live speaker at a seminar is more powerful than a webinar online or a sales page. Hence that is why network marketing is more profitable than Internet marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyronne78
    Network marketing is really just a distribution model used to sell overpriced goods and services. What will determine your success in network marketing is how well you can work your company's "system",if you joined at the right time (did you join before all of the big money was made?) and how well you can sell. Internet marketing/digital marketing is a distribution model as well. The only difference is the fact that you're using the world wide web to market and sell your products and services. Both models can be used to leverage your marketing and sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by tyronne78 View Post

      The only difference is the fact that you're using the world wide web to market and sell your products and services.
      You are way off. Network marketing is a business model that includes both offline and internet marketing methods. And internet marketing is just a fraction of the total sales volume produced through network marketering.

      Often a euphemism for the negative connotations of the term MLM, "network marketing" now is nearly a trillion dollar industry, mostly due to offline sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by tyronne78 View Post

      Network marketing is really just a distribution model used to sell overpriced goods and services.
      Half right... half wrong. The product my company sells is equal
      or better quality than any of its competitors and is about 1/3 the price.

      It's a new day... there are many network marketing companies
      offering products and services of exceptional value. The courts
      are slowly but surely weeding out the ones that jack up the prices
      in order to fuel the comp plan.
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      • Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Half right... half wrong. The product my company sells is equal
        or better quality than any of its competitors and is about 1/3 the price.

        It's a new day... there are many network marketing companies
        offering products and services of exceptional value. The courts
        are slowly but surely weeding out the ones that jack up the prices
        in order to fuel the comp plan.
        Hello Tsnyder;

        Would you mind stating what company and product it is that is better quality at a 1/3 of the price?

        The reason I ask is because this goes back to my essential issue with NM or MLM, I have yet to see a product that is truly a better value than what I can buy online or even in a store? I don't want to turn this into a network marketing bashing thread, that's been done here plenty of times. I simply want someone to show me product X, which is equal to or better than product Y in Target, Wal Mart, or on Amazon, and is the same or lower in price.

        Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by noobz View Post


    I was thinking in my mind "how the heck you make 6 figures and don't know jack about internet marketing, building niche sites and list building, and you telling me what I'm doing is wrong, and the kind of thinking I possessed?" [/b]



    List building does not necessarily have to be "monopolized" by an email subscriber base.
    My old Amway buddies who were successful had huge Lists of customer/prospects' name, numbers, addresses etc..etc..on the back of their yellow legal pads
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Originally Posted by noobz View Post

    Tell me. What's the difference between someone who does Network Marketing vs someone who build niche sites, list building, SEO, FB ads etc. Because this speaker doesn't seen to get it. In my opinion, comparing the speaker to me he knows very little about real internet marketing.
    As a career network marketer the speaker sounds like kind of a jackass... but
    hey... they're everywhere in all types of businesses.

    To answer the question I quoted.... the difference between a network marketer
    and an internet marketer (as you appear to be using the term) is that one understands
    leveraged residual income and one maybe doesn't.

    That said, internet marketing isn't a business. It's a method that can be used
    to build a business. Many network marketers use internet marketing to build
    lists.
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  • Profile picture of the author MightyWarrior
    First off, the guy making the 6-figures or more... yada-yada. He didn't get there managing a list. Furthermore, you're unteachable.
    I'm not saying either of you are wrong, but different.

    However, if you continue you'll get what you've always gotten by doing the same things over and over.

    1. Be humble and teachable.
    2. Listen more than talk.
    3. Take your time; be patient.
    4. If you don't understand, ask.

    I can tell you for a fact (and I leave you with this), there is more money in networking with the right people than there is in any standard marketing list.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawandave
      I must say Internet marketing is far better than network marketing, if you see in one way here in internet marketing your destiny is 100% under your control in your hand. You can use your internet marketing skill to boom your network marketing (if you want but i don't think someone switch).

      If that guy don't know about internet marketing and claimed to making 6 figure. It seems impossible to me...
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      • Profile picture of the author MightyWarrior
        If you continue you'll get what you've always gotten by doing the same things over and over.

        1. Be humble and teachable.
        2. Listen more than talk.
        3. Take your time; be patient.
        4. If you don't understand, ask.

        Some people never learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    Hey myob, I was always curious and this is not trying to call you out or anything malicious but I was curious how successful MLM has been for you ? Not necessarily monetarily but your downline etc..etc..

    Like I said a harmless question with no intent so naturally you don't have to answer it
    I know there is no malicious intent on your part, but regrettably I did just that a few years ago. But that really is not important, and I will never again release such numbers publically. Besides, very few here will ever do what it takes to achieve such high levels of success anyway.

    With apologies, this forum is primarily a training and recruiting tool for my own MLM downline. For some reason this forum can be especially hostile towards those who have reached uncommon success which you perhaps have seen for yourself over the years, as all of the greatest marketing legends left in disgust.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    I give my attention and energy to folks I resonate with N, and let go everybody else. Because where your attention and energy goes, grows NM, IM....some passionate folks work either niche, and kill it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Singh
    The speaker may be an 'old school' networker.

    Some of these guys have built up huge teams and can make more than 6 figures. They don't like the idea of Internet Marketing.

    What they like is convincing a ton of people (where the average rep has a cap of 3 sales) to sell (through family and friends) a few products for them and the company.

    The great majority of Network Marketers sell a few products and make next to nothing. But this equates to a ton of sales volume for some leaders and the company.
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  • Profile picture of the author xpatlifestyle
    boardly speaking,

    network marketing is to sell you a product, you must push hard to get someone sign up under you.

    online marketing is to provide value to your target audiance, doesn't matter if they buy or not, and evantualy someone will believe in your value and pull his wallet out, this is a pull marketing, network is a push selling.

    also online marketing is building your brand, not like network marketing, you are building someone else brand.

    in term of hard working, online marketing require you to work hard, but is for yourself, some network marketing company may tell you that if you find 2 powerful downline, they may do the work for you.

    so your choice ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by xpatlifestyle View Post

      boardly speaking,

      network marketing is to sell you a product, you must push hard to get someone sign up under you.

      online marketing is to provide value to your target audiance, doesn't matter if they buy or not, and evantualy someone will believe in your value and pull his wallet out, this is a pull marketing, network is a push selling.

      also online marketing is building your brand, not like network marketing, you are building someone else brand.

      in term of hard working, online marketing require you to work hard, but is for yourself, some network marketing company may tell you that if you find 2 powerful downline, they may do the work for you.

      so your choice ...
      Actually... if you hope to be successful at network marketing
      long term, it works pretty much the opposite of the way you describe.
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  • Internet marketing includes all forms of marketing online - brick and mortar businesses marketing their goods or services through the Internet.

    Network Marketing is a business model that uses independent representatives to market a good or service. It may or may not be worked online. To be successful at network marketing, building a business online is really the best way to attract huge numbers of prospects and customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author davidricherd
    internet marketing help in organic ranking & traffic while networking marketing have many fake traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by davidricherd View Post

      internet marketing help in organic ranking & traffic while networking marketing have many fake traffic.
      What does that mean?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jhelum Sen
    Both Internet marketing and network marketing has high reaches. Internet marketing it is a two-way process and an interactive marketing process. Network marketing is more like a federal structure, where is a top authority and many branches are coming down from each resource. Though many follow network marketing but it is not the future as more people are getting cheated rather than getting benefited. But Internet marketing is the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Jhelum Sen View Post

      Both Internet marketing and network marketing has high reaches. Internet marketing it is a two-way process and an interactive marketing process. Network marketing is more like a federal structure, where is a top authority and many branches are coming down from each resource. Though many follow network marketing but it is not the future as more people are getting cheated rather than getting benefited. But Internet marketing is the future.
      Perhaps that's true in New Delhi... I doubt it... but it's nowhere
      near reality in many of the countries around the world where network
      marketing produces billions of dollars in sales of legitimate products
      and services and commissions to those making the sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author noobz
    Tsnyder, I respect you owned a Network Marketing company. But owning your own company is different than becoming a distributor. Network Marketing is a pyramid scheme. The last person will always lose out - it's built that way. It's built to make all the people at the bottom lose and the top people gets all the income. Anybody who is smart will go and create their own company. It's funny how people who are in Network Marketing think that's their company. lol.

    Network Marketing has taught me to be very closed minded. Now that I transition to IM, I can see why people who are in MLM are so narrowed minded and easily get offended when I tell them about IM.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by noobz View Post

      Anybody who is smart will go and create their own company.
      This is precisely what the most successful in network marking do, and develop their downlines with the business skills to do the same. That's what it takes to make the big bucks in this industry. It is impossible to obtain this type of marketing leverage and distribution with IM alone. And btw, newbies are still building multiple 6 figure incomes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by noobz View Post

      Tsnyder, I respect you owned a Network Marketing company. But owning your own company is different than becoming a distributor. Network Marketing is a pyramid scheme. The last person will always lose out - it's built that way. It's built to make all the people at the bottom lose and the top people gets all the income. Anybody who is smart will go and create their own company. It's funny how people who are in Network Marketing think that's their company. lol.

      Network Marketing has taught me to be very closed minded. Now that I transition to IM, I can see why people who are in MLM are so narrowed minded and easily get offended when I tell them about IM.
      Now you're simply displaying a frightening level of ignorance about the
      subject. Not a single thing you wrote about how the model is built is the
      least bit true. State and federal government entities routinely shut down
      companies operating in the manner you describe. Those are not network
      marketing companies. They only pretend to be to fool those who don't know
      how to identify the difference. It sounds like you were one of those people
      and had a bad experience due to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

      And I'm not the poster who identified himself as a previous owner. That was
      the member known as Enfusia.
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Now you're simply displaying a frightening level of ignorance about the
        subject. Not a single thing you wrote about how the model is built is the
        least bit true. State and federal government entities routinely shut down
        companies operating in the manner you describe. Those are not network
        marketing companies. They only pretend to be to fool those who don't know
        how to identify the difference. It sounds like you were one of those people
        and had a bad experience due to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

        And I'm not the poster who identified himself as a previous owner. That was
        the member known as Enfusia.
        Is that the go to line that all you people have memorized? It's like everyone of you say the exact same thing.

        What you are really saying is that "we scam people and then when the law comes down on us we come up with some loophole so we can keep scamming."

        there truly is "No True Scotsman" in the whole business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          Is that the go to line that all you people have memorized? It's like everyone of you say the exact same thing.

          What you are really saying is that "we scam people and then when the law comes down on us we come up with some loophole so we can keep scamming."

          there truly is "No True Scotsman" in the whole business.
          That was just ignorant but thanks for playing.

          If it's a go line then every state and federal regulatory agency
          in America, Canada and around the world is part of the scam.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          There truly is "No True Scotsman" in the whole business.
          Hmmm.... well I know of at least 20 major MLM companies with distribution centers in Scotland, and I have a few quite successful distributors there in my own downline as well. Are none of them "True Scotsmen"?
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      • Profile picture of the author noobz
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Now you're simply displaying a frightening level of ignorance about the
        subject. Not a single thing you wrote about how the model is built is the
        least bit true. State and federal government entities routinely shut down
        companies operating in the manner you describe. Those are not network
        marketing companies. They only pretend to be to fool those who don't know
        how to identify the difference. It sounds like you were one of those people
        and had a bad experience due to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

        And I'm not the poster who identified himself as a previous owner. That was
        the member known as Enfusia.
        I do apologize. Both of you guys avatar look alike.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by noobz View Post

      Tsnyder, I respect you owned a Network Marketing company. But owning your own company is different than becoming a distributor. Network Marketing is a pyramid scheme. The last person will always lose out - it's built that way.
      It isn't built so the last person loses out. The last person buys a product. They have the product. They just don't participate in the compensation schedule. In an illegal pyramid scheme, the last person (or people who don't sell) really are stuck with nothing for their money.

      You should read Wikipedia's definition of network marketing, and the difference between a legal network distribution company and an illegal pyramid scheme.

      Lots of companies are similar to MLM. I buy vacuum cleaners from my distributor who buys from the manufacturer...and I sell to retail customers. That's four levels of distribution (including the customer). But the customer is getting a good deal. They are getting what was offered, a good product.

      The horror stories I hear in MLM usually come from distributors making outlandish promises to get people to join. Usually their isn't really anything wrong with the company itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author chanks2015
    There is nothing right or wrong about INTERNET marketing & NETWORK marketing.

    People are doing great in INTERNET marketing and NETWORK marketing too. It' own one choice how to earn the money.

    Every marketing or business TRAFFIC & PRODUCT is needed for the business to happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Both of you guys avatar look alike.
    I started IM since 2010 and have built marketing funnels, squeeze pages, collect my own email list and ran multiple Fb ads. I do all the grunt work myself while you're probably outsourced all your work and have no real skills or talent.
    So - two men look alike to you - and if it's a woman...probably no real skills.
    That's your position? splorf. I count at least 10 people in this thread who have earned a living online for years - those are just the ones I KNOW about.

    I started IM about ten years before you did - and that was AFTER some others in this thread. Don't be a dork. Your opinion is fine - your reasoning is your own - your conjecture about others in this thread is delusional.
    Signature

    Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    I came to this forum about ten years ago, after spending several years in network marketing. I used a lot of IM techniques to sort and sift through the various prospects looking for those who resonated with the way our group did things. At one point I was one of the moderators at one of the biggest NWM forums, and even a partner in a company that provided company approved websites based on our methods.

    The reasons I left the industry were:

    > I got tired of having companies implode and go out of business owning me money, and leaving me to start over again.

    > I got tired of the scenario of having people finding leads companies with their own MLM plan, and spending more time pitching their leads company to other team members than building the business. Eventually, people splintered off to be the king of their own little hill and quit building the main business.

    Basically, I just got tired. Had nothing to do with the business model itself.

    Then a member of the old forum suggested I have a look here. I joined and made an intro post. The first reply was "about time you got here." Been here ever since.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

    I simply want someone to show me product X, which is equal to or better than product Y in Target, Wal Mart, or on Amazon, and is the same or lower in price.
    There are several MLM companies that I know of which offer products of much greater value than can be found in stores, including my company. But you're not likely to find any MLM'er here foolish enough to tip their hand openly on this forum with specifics.
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    • Originally Posted by myob View Post

      There are several MLM companies that I know of which offer products of much greater value than can be found in stores, including my company. But you're not likely to find any MLM'er here foolish enough to tip their hand openly on this forum with specifics.
      Hello MYOB;

      I think we've had this discussion before. Please tell me why it foolish to tip your hand by telling me the company and/or product that is so awesome? Wouldn't you want to sell more product and grow your down line, particularly with other marketers who will grow their own down lines? Please explain your rationale.

      Thanks.
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    • Originally Posted by myob View Post

      There are several MLM companies that I know of which offer products of much greater value than can be found in stores, including my company. But you're not likely to find any MLM'er here foolish enough to tip their hand openly on this forum with specifics.
      Ok, so I went back and found the thread where I asked you about your products. You stated that sharing might look like shameless promotion and start a link fest from every MLM'er in here, and that may anger the mods. I get that, so please feel free to PM any info, the same as I asked Tsnyder. And by the way, for all of you reading this, this request just goes to MYOB and Tsnyder.

      Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

        Ok, so I went back and found the thread where I asked you about your products. You stated that sharing might look like shameless promotion and start a link fest from every MLM'er in here, and that may anger the mods. I get that, so please feel free to PM any info, the same as I asked Tsnyder. And by the way, for all of you reading this, this request just goes to MYOB and Tsnyder.

        Thanks.
        You won't find anyone here who is a professional in MLM to send you this info via PM.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I'm not worried about tipping my hand... the facts are what they are.

    The problem is the forum rules...
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Originally Posted by myob View Post

      You won't find anyone here who is a professional in MLM to send you this info via PM.
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I'm not worried about tipping my hand... the facts are what they are.

      The problem is the forum rules...

      Interesting differences of opinion...

      Thank you Tsnyder.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        I continually receive a lot of feedback from some in my MLM downline and other people who follow me here about why I never respond more directly to PM requests and posts such as mobilemarketer2012:

        Would you mind stating what company and product it is that is better quality at a 1/3 of the price? You can PM me if you want.

        The reason I ask is because this goes back to my essential issue with NM or MLM, I have yet to see a product that is truly a better value than what I can buy online or even in a store? I don't want to turn this into a network marketing bashing thread, that's been done here plenty of times. I simply want someone to show me product X, which is equal to or better than product Y in Target, Wal Mart, or on Amazon, and is the same or lower in price.
        Please tell me why it's foolish to tip your hand by telling me the company and/or product that is so awesome? Wouldn't you want to sell more product and grow your down line, particularly with other marketers who will grow their own down lines? Please explain your rationale.
        Ok, so I went back and found the thread where I asked you about your products. You stated that sharing might look like shameless promotion and start a link fest from every MLM'er in here, and that may anger the mods. I get that, so please feel free to PM any info, the same as I asked Tsnyder. And by the way, for all of you reading this, this request just goes to MYOB and Tsnyder.
        Besides it being against the forum rules (a big marketing coup for many MLM'ers here), there is a small but very noisy bunch of the misinformed, misguided, and outright hostile self-serving interests against this type of marketing.

        In addition, it is never a good marketing practice to divulge the name of your MLM company, products, or naked affiliate links on a public forum, period. No professional MLM'er (or affiliate marketer) will ever be so foolish.

        The comments made by mobilemarketer2012 is a typical example (not intended as an insult or disparaging in any way) of a general ignorance of just how MLM works.
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        • Originally Posted by myob View Post

          I continually receive a lot of feedback from some in my MLM downline and other people who follow me here about why I never respond more directly to PM requests and posts such as mobilemarketer2012:







          Besides it being against the forum rules (a big marketing coup for many MLM'ers here), there is a small but very noisy bunch of the misinformed, misguided, and outright hostile self-serving interests against this type of marketing.

          In addition, it is never a good marketing practice to divulge the name of your MLM company, products, or naked affiliate links on a public forum, period. No professional MLM'er (or affiliate marketer) will ever be so foolish.

          The comments made by mobilemarketer2012 is a typical example (not intended as an insult or disparaging in any way) of a general ignorance of just how MLM works.
          Tsnyder shared with me privately, (away from here) the MLM he is working with and I took a look at the company and the products. I must say that for me this was the best way to see if I might be interested. There was no email funnel drip fed over 5 days, no 1 hour webinar, and no going to someone's house or a hotel banquet hall for a seminar. He simply gave me the name of the company and I researched it online. It's important to note that I asked him for it, he didn't solicit or spam me with it. I want to thank Tsnyder for his candor. I won't say anything about the company or products here because I don't want to appear as condemning or condoning them. I am still confused as to why you won't tell me the name of your MLM privately, unless you think I have ulterior motives. I assure you, I do not.

          Myob you may very well be right, I don't know how MLM works, I've never really joined one. I've typically been to solicited to join by any one of the 3 ways I listed above. I only know how they work from what I've read or been told by the companies and people soliciting me to join. What I have been told about how it works is probably what most have been told. Usually you need to buy the product and continue buying it but not always. More importantly sell the product via any number of outlets, family friends, businesses, online, etc... Further, recruit others to do the same. This is a simplified explanation but I'd like to know how MLM works if it is different from how I described it.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

            Tsnyder shared with me privately, (away from here) the MLM he is working with and I took a look at the company and the products. I must say that for me this was the best way to see if I might be interested. There was no email funnel drip fed over 5 days, no 1 hour webinar, and no going to someone's house or a hotel banquet hall for a seminar. He simply gave me the name of the company and I researched it online. It's important to note that I asked him for it, he didn't solicit or spam me with it. I want to thank Tsnyder for his candor. I won't say anything about the company or products here because I don't want to appear as condemning or condoning them.
            That's just not what I do nor what I teach. Without a strong and captivating back end marketing effort, Tsnyder's recruiting method seems to have a number of weak links and glaring points of failure.

            Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

            I am still confused as to why you won't tell me the name of your MLM privately, unless you think I have ulterior motives. I assure you, I do not.
            I am only demonstrating here that recruiting directly into MLM does not work - especially under these circumstances. Why? Because these conditions are not duplicatable. I lead my team by example, and this is a perfect example of what not to do.

            Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

            Myob you may very well be right, I don't know how MLM works, I've never really joined one. I've typically been to solicited to join by any one of the 3 ways I listed above. I only know how they work from what I've read or been told by the companies and people soliciting me to join.
            And what you have been told by what you've read, and those companies and people soliciting you will most likely lead to a spiraling path downward to failure.

            Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

            What I have been told about how it works is probably what most have been told.
            You got that right.

            Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

            Usually you need to buy the product and continue buying it but not always. More importantly sell the product via any number of outlets, family friends, businesses, online, etc... Further, recruit others to do the same. This is a simplified explanation but I'd like to know how MLM works if it is different from how I described it.
            Wrong. Get the book "Go Pro - 7 Steps to Becoming a Network Marketing Professional" by Eric Worre. It's available on Amazon or on his website: networkmarketingpro.com. After you read the book, send me a PM. Then we'll talk.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              That's just not what I do nor what I teach. Without a strong and captivating back end marketing effort, Tsnyder's recruiting method seems to have a number of weak links and glaring points of failure.
              I'm not going to get into a silly debate here but after more than three
              decades and a level of success most dream about I promise you there
              are no weak links or glaring points of failure in my game.

              The poster asked me a direct question. I gave him a direct answer. I don't
              play games with prospects because I'm not looking to sign up everyone I
              meet... only the right ones.
              Signature
              If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                I'm not going to get into a silly debate here but after more than three
                decades and a level of success most dream about I promise you there
                are no weak links or glaring points of failure in my game.

                The poster asked me a direct question. I gave him a direct answer. I don't
                play games with prospects because I'm not looking to sign up everyone I
                meet... only the right ones.
                My apologies if I've come across as offensive, insulting or argumentative, as that most certainly was not my intent. I've also been doing MLM for more than three decades (since 1984). Except for a short stint with Amway, I've been with the same MLM company throughout. Indeed, it is a lifestyle that most people only dream about.

                My statement was not at all a reflection on your marketing competence or effectiveness. It does take a very experienced marketer to recruit and train using the method demonstrated here. As I said, this requires "a strong and captivating back end marketing effort".

                While certainly admirable that you "don't play games with prospects" ... "The poster asked me a direct question. I gave him a direct answer.", my position is that giving direct answers prematurely can be damaging. For example, unless I'm missing something here, just about anyone else (except perhaps yourself) who would do something like this will fail miserably:
                Tsnyder shared with me privately, (away from here) the MLM he is working with and I took a look at the company and the products. I must say that for me this was the best way to see if I might be interested. There was no email funnel drip fed over 5 days, no 1 hour webinar, and no going to someone's house or a hotel banquet hall for a seminar. He simply gave me the name of the company and I researched it online.
                I teach my downline emphatically to never divulge the name of the MLM company without first developing a strong posture, which includes building up their own personal brand and establishing a relationship with prospects. Otherwise, the prospect is more likely to research the company online and join under someone else that Google pops up. This happens a lot more than you might realize.

                The upshot is that even though you have many years of experience and can counterpunch this reflexive tendency for prospects to "research online", such experience is not duplicatable without comparable years of training. Perhaps the one major difference between you and I is that I recruit prospects exactly as I train them to do. Their training actually begins at the first point of contact.

                mobilemarketer2012,
                Your training with me has already begun for any network company you may decide to join:
                Get the book "Go Pro - 7 Steps to Becoming a Network Marketing Professional" by Eric Worre. It's available on Amazon or on his website: networkmarketingpro.com. After you read the book, send me a PM. Then we'll talk.
                "If you’re going to be involved in network marketing, decide to be a professional. Decide to Go Pro."
                - Eric Worre
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                • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                  My apologies if I've come across as offensive, insulting or argumentative, as that most certainly was not my intent. I've also been doing MLM for more than three decades (since 1984). Except for a short stint with Amway, I've been with the same MLM company throughout. Indeed, it is a lifestyle that most people only dream about.

                  My statement was not at all a reflection on your marketing competence or effectiveness. It does take a very experienced marketer to recruit and train using the method demonstrated here. As I said, this requires "a strong and captivating back end marketing effort".

                  While certainly admirable that you "don't play games with prospects" ... "The poster asked me a direct question. I gave him a direct answer.", my position is that giving direct answers prematurely can be damaging. For example, unless I'm missing something here, just about anyone else (except perhaps yourself) who would do something like this will fail miserably:


                  I teach my downline emphatically to never divulge the name of the MLM company without first developing a strong posture, which includes building up their own personal brand and establishing a relationship with prospects. Otherwise, the prospect is more likely to research the company online and join under someone else that Google pops up. This happens a lot more than you might realize.

                  The upshot is that even though you have many years of experience and can counterpunch this reflexive tendency for prospects to "research online", such experience is not duplicatable without comparable years of training. Perhaps the one major difference between you and I is that I recruit prospects exactly as I train them to do. Their training actually begins at the first point of contact.

                  mobilemarketer2012,
                  Your training with me has already begun for any network company you may decide to join:


                  "If you’re going to be involved in network marketing, decide to be a professional. Decide to Go Pro."
                  - Eric Worre
                  I hear and understand completely everything you've said but you've made some
                  assumptions that just aren't true. I don't simply give people the name and send
                  them off to Google their hearts out. That's just the short version of what actually
                  takes place.

                  I also don't assign a nanosecond of time worrying about the possibility that they
                  may decide to join with someone else. If they connect more closely with someone
                  else or some other product or company I give them my blessing and leave the door
                  open if they need assistance with anything.

                  I don't need an army. I need a few committed individuals willing to do precisely
                  what I teach them without question or deviation for at least a year. If they won't
                  make that minimum commitment I'm happy to refer them to someone else.

                  I don't view this as an exercise in posturing or persuading. I'm not out to
                  impress anyone. I know who I am. I know what I have accomplished. I know
                  what I have to offer and I'm supremely confident that it's better than anything
                  they're doing right now if they have a traditional job.

                  We just have a different philosophies which leads to differences in methodology.

                  I'm OK with that;.
                  Signature
                  If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      The problem is the forum rules...
      I'm surprised that you consider the forum rules as a "problem". Ironically, this forum is perhaps among the top marketing and recruiting tools for MLMers, precisely because of the rules. It literally forces the misguided into adopting duplicatable best marketing practices. Premature exposure is not only futile, but may be detrimental to significant success.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        I'm surprised that you consider the forum rules as a "problem". Ironically, this forum is perhaps among the top marketing and recruiting tools for MLMers, precisely because of the rules. It literally forces the misguided into adopting duplicatable best marketing practices. Premature exposure is not only futile, but may be detrimental to significant success.
        Obviously, I was unclear about my meaning and you misinterpreted my intent.

        I've been around here a long time and was a moderator
        for many years. When I said the rules were the problem I
        meant they are the reason I won't post a link and promote my
        product.

        I should have been more precise in my language.
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Nina Petrov
    They both have their advantages and disadvantages. In reality I believe you should just go with what you're strengths are. Like if you don't know anything about internet marketing and you're just starting out, we all know how big that learning curve is. It's nuts! We're engineers in a lot of ways. The amount of technical things you have to know to do IM. It's rediculous. So the average person isn't going to know all that, nor have the time to learn all that. It's impossible. But like for example I have this one video at MLMRC which it shows this one guy who's done extremely well. His name is Holton Buggs. It's been shown in multiple sites and places that they guy is raking in well over 10 million per year. Now he says he knew 1 thing. Just how to do a conference call. That's not hard. So he did conference calls and meetings at his house to sign people up. And that allow him to get tons and tons of people, which was sort of his initial claim to fame. So I bet any money 99.9 percent of the people on here know tons more about IM than he ever does, But he's making 1000 to 10000 times as 99.9 percent of all IMer's are without knowing very much. But he's a good speaker which not everyone is. But anyway, I just think go with what you're good at. What else can you really do right.
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  • Profile picture of the author jherewini
    For me it makes no difference if your a network marketer or internet marketer if your talking to the wrong target audience then it makes no difference how good your sales pitch is you wont get a sale. Meaning if your selling meat to vegetarians you'll get zero conversion.

    I personally prefer online marketing over network marketing and thats because I have an online system that handles all the heavy lifting for me. And my role is to send targeedt leads to my landing page, How ever I have also found that my conversion and retention rates are way higher when I use some of the presentation skills that network marketers use.

    My difference is that I believe we all lead busy lives today and that with modern technology there really is no need to leave your home to go to a hotel or someone elses home to see a net work marketing presentation. You can achieve the same outcome online when you use modern technology correctly.

    For that guest presenter to say that your method doesnt work, certainly concerns me because I certainly know peopl who earns 6 figures per month thanks to internet marketing and doing what I do
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by jherewini View Post

      My difference is that I believe we all lead busy lives today and that with modern technology there really is no need to leave your home to go to a hotel or someone elses home to see a net work marketing presentation. You can achieve the same outcome online when you use modern technology correctly.
      I know it seems counter intuitive given the state of current technology
      but the truth is that very few people have the skills required to build a large
      stable network marketing business solely online.

      I have spoken to many rooms, large and small, full of people and I always
      ask the audience how many of them knew the person who introduced them to
      the company before they joined.... relative... friend... some sort of personal
      connection. Far more than 90% say they did.

      I know a few network marketing leaders who have been successful using
      online methods but they are rare, They also understand that the relationship
      has to be taken offline as soon as possible to make the kind of personal
      connection that bonds people together and increases retention.
      Signature
      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • It wasn't my intent to start a disagreement in this thread, only to see if there was an actual MLM company out there that had a good product. As I have stated before numerous times, the MLM companies I have been solicited to join have always had products I did not believe in. Further, I did not agree with the compensation packages, they seemed to put much more compensation on recruitment than they did on simply selling the product. Tsnyder shared his company with me privately with me so I could research it and draw my own conclusions. I think this is the best way to decide if you want to be part of something. If I had concerns I could go back to Tsnyder and address those with him. Again, so as not to violate the TOS of the WF I won't say anything about the company except to say this: I commend Tsnyder on having the confidence to allow the company to stand on its merits. With regards to the signing up online concern: I'm not in MLM so I don't know how often someone joins up under someone on Google vs. the person who introduces them. But I can't imaging bypassing the person who showed me the opportunity and is willing to work with me on it.

    Some might say that with all the negativity associated with MLM you need to preempt the objections before giving the name of the company and the stating that it is an MLM. I have been in sales for 25 years and I understand that there are good companies and products in poorly perceived niches. However, I still believe that the best way to approach anything is with a straightforward approach. I doubt I will join Tsnyder's MLM or any MLM for that matter, but if I did I would take that type of approach. Being in sales I would probably just want to sell the product, but if someone wanted to know more I would say, "I'm with company X, and we have Y products" It is an MLM or NM company but you don't have to be part of that. This is my website and if you want to know more let me know. No matter what you've heard or experienced with MLM, I'd be happy to discuss your questions and concerns." The funny thing to me is, if this is the wrong approach, then why is that? Why should I need to take something other than an upfront direct approach to get someone interested in my business? To me, if I take the straightforward approach I am more likely to end up with, as Tsnyder says, the right people, the people in it for the long haul.
    Right now I sell products to small businesses. The products I sell are commodity and in a somewhat saturated market, yet I do ok. I don't make a million bucks a year but I make six figures. I take the same straightforward approach when calling on a business owner. I tell them my company name and products, and I say something like, "I'm sure the last thing you want to see is another X and Y but I'd appreciate the opportunity to show my lines and see if you think they'd be a good fit for your store." I don't feel the need to circumvent or evade the company/product to get the appointment.

    Myob, you said this: "Tsnyder's recruiting method seems to have a number of weak links and glaring points of failure.:

    Then, when Tsnyder responded, you said this: "My apologies if I've come across as offensive, insulting or argumentative, as that most certainly was not my intent. "

    How did you expect him to take that statement? How would you have taken it?

    Then you said this to me, "mobilemarketer2012,
    Your training with me has already begun for any network company you may decide to join:
    Get the book "Go Pro - 7 Steps to Becoming a Network Marketing Professional" by Eric Worre. It's available on Amazon or on his website: networkmarketingpro.com. After you read the book, send me a PM. Then we'll talk."

    Who said I wanted to train with you?

    In my opinion, you have been pretty presumptive in this thread. Maybe your training (not with me because I don't know everything) ought to be: be upfront and open minded with people and give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

      Myob, you said this: "Tsnyder's recruiting method seems to have a number of weak links and glaring points of failure.
      This was in response to the exchange you related regarding how he responded to your request. My comments were clearly made without knowing some of the pertinent details you left out.

      Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

      Then, when Tsnyder responded, you said this: "My apologies if I've come across as offensive, insulting or argumentative, as that most certainly was not my intent."

      How did you expect him to take that statement? How would you have taken it?
      With the information you provided, his approach and contact with you seemed surprisingly more like amateur marketing, of which he clarified in his later post alluding to much of the details you left out.

      Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

      Then you said this to me, "mobilemarketer2012,
      Your training with me has already begun for any network company you may decide to join:
      Get the book "Go Pro - 7 Steps to Becoming a Network Marketing Professional" by Eric Worre. It's available on Amazon or on his website: networkmarketingpro.com. After you read the book, send me a PM. Then we'll talk."

      Who said I wanted to train with you?
      You can just disregard this obviously premature qualifying invitation, because you have already proven it would be a waste of my time and yours. Before anyone is exposed to my company, they are required to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the MLM model.

      In addition, because of the highly visible hostility so historically characteristic on this forum, MLM prospect leads generated here are in my funnel system often for several months of vetted preparation before they even know anything about the specific network company I am promoting.

      Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

      In my opinion, you have been pretty presumptive in this thread. Maybe your training (not with me because I don't know everything) ought to be: be upfront and open minded with people and give them the benefit of the doubt.
      My apparently "presumptive" position here has been right on, as it usually is. I train my downline (formally and by example) to follow specific and highly duplicatable steps in recruiting and promotion. This thread has once again (just as with countless others here on the forum) become another case study, and proven why these preliminary steps are so necessary.
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    SEOptimization@1 in Off Topic

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