Emailing Works! I sent out only 19 messages and made a "gazillion dollars"

by Jacer
56 replies
There are some people around here that claim that sending emails to offline business owners works for them. They pop up in thread and in a few WSO's. I have tried it myself, and while I have got some response, I just don't see why people waste their time with it. Maybe I am missing something, but it seems like a lot of hype.

If you are doing well right now in marketing your offline business with email marketing I want to hear from you. Here are a few questions:

1) How do you gather enough emails to send out to get a decent response?
2) How do you keep your email account from getting shut down?
3) What is your real conversion rate. Not how many people emailed you back, but how many you closed?

I am completely open to the idea, but I have yet to find a sustainable method that provides consistent lead generation with email marketing.
#emails #refuse #send
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I will put it like Paul Meyers

    "Telling a struggling entrepreneur to use email as a way to put some life saving cash in their pocket to sell websites and make ends meet... is like throwing a drowning man a boulder".

    Or something like that about mlm.

    hey, it applies.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattyD
    I like a challenge, so please find my answers below

    1) I gather up a list of 100-200 businesses from various sources. Usually I will gather them myself as I quite enjoy the process and the brief glimpses of websites (from the beautiful to the ugly). If I don't have time to do so, I will outsource the work with a strict brief for the details I require.

    Generally business details will be sourced from chambers of commerce, local business directories, trade directories and even google search results.

    The only information I record is:
    * Business Name
    * Business Owner's Name (First/Last)
    * Location
    * Email Address

    2) Every email I send is sent personally to the business owner. I will take the extra time required to find this and to ensure that I address them properly. By doing so, I know that I will increase the response and ultimately the conversion rate.

    I don't email anyone directly anymore. I wrote a PHP script that works similar to "mail-merge" in Word. So I will add the business information to the database and when I press send, it sends all of the added businesses a personalised email offering my services. It saves me a huge amount of time and is one of the best things I have at my disposal.

    At the bottom of every email, I have a short 2 sentences which explain to the business owner how I found their information and that I will happily add them to a 'do not contact' list if they require.

    I've only ever had 2 bad responses to any email that I have sent out on behalf of my business. One of those was resolved and turned into a client, the other time I apologised politely and went on my way.

    An initial email is sent and then a follow up email or telephone call 7-14 days later, with a final reminder 28 days later.

    3) The stats from the last fully completed campaign I have - 2nd August 2010 - (I count them as completed after 8 weeks) are as follows:

    This campaign included a free offer for the business owners. Those that said no were either not interested or were already working on it.

    Emails Sent: 97
    Replies Received: 12 (Yes) / 5 (No) - 17 Total.
    New Clients: 6

    Response Rate: 16.49%
    Conversion Rate: 5.82%


    Andrew Cavanagh mentioned in another thread that he recommends immediately calling back a business owner that replies to your email. This might be something you would like to think about - it's definitely something that I'll be adding in.

    Hope that helps
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    • Profile picture of the author Jacer
      I gather up a list of 100-200 businesses from various sources. Usually I will gather them myself as I quite enjoy the process and the brief glimpses of websites (from the beautiful to the ugly). If I don't have time to do so, I will outsource the work with a strict brief for the details I require.
      Thanks MattyD for your method. What services do you offer clients? I also gathered email addresses by hand early in my offline marketing career to advertise my web design services.

      An initial email is sent and then a follow up email or telephone call 7-14 days later, with a final reminder 28 days later.
      How many of your results at from first, second, and third contact? Do you automate this?

      3) The stats from the last fully completed campaign I have - 2nd August 2010 - (I count them as completed after 8 weeks) are as follows:

      This campaign included a free offer for the business owners. Those that said no were either not interested or were already working on it.

      Emails Sent: 97
      Replies Received: 12 (Yes) / 5 (No) - 17 Total.
      New Clients: 6

      Response Rate: 16.49%
      Conversion Rate: 5.82%
      Those stats are impressive, but are they consistent? What was the free offer? And how to you survive only getting 6 new clients over 2 months? This is why I decided to stop email marketing and look into other ways to get clients (I could not get enough clients)
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      • Profile picture of the author MattyD
        Originally Posted by Jacer View Post

        Thanks MattyD for your method. What services do you offer clients? I also gathered email addresses by hand early in my offline marketing career to advertise my web design services.
        I run a number of different campaigns at different times of the month. Main services are Web Design, SEO, Social Media Marketing and Video Marketing. For example, when I offer Web Design, I tend to look for businesses without websites as it makes them the most obvious potential customer.

        Originally Posted by Jacer View Post

        How many of your results at from first, second, and third contact? Do you automate this?
        The vast majority of initial responses come from the first contact. I try to make an offer that they are unable to refuse. Of course some business owners are wary and I get replies asking me what the catch is or why is it free - so I have some pre-prepared replies already explaining why I'm offering them a free service.

        I don't have exact figures at the moment, but off the top of my head I'd say 70% / 20% / 10% for 1st/2nd/3rd was around the right area.

        I don't currently automate the follow-up emails, but I am building this into my business as we speak via the software I mentioned in my first reply. Telephone calls are made manually as I'm sadly not robotic enough to carry that out yet

        Originally Posted by Jacer View Post

        Those stats are impressive, but are they consistent? What was the free offer? And how to you survive only getting 6 new clients over 2 months? This is why I decided to stop email marketing and look into other ways to get clients (I could not get enough clients)
        The stats have increased nicely over the summer and as we've moved into Autumn. I'm constantly refining my emails and split testing different ideas to find the best solution that gives the highest return and the most satisfied customers.

        I don't want to go into too much detail about the free offers at the moment, but they range from a free appraisal of current marketing effort, helping someone create or update a Google Places listing or a 1hr phone consultation. Ideas that offer value to the customer so that even if they do not work with me, they will remember me as an established expert and come back to me when they do require help in the future.

        With regards to only 6 clients over 2 months, perhaps I didn't explain things clearly. The campaign details I listed in my first reply were from the last "completed campaign". I mark a campaign as completed after 8 weeks - so that was the last "completed". As for running campaigns, I do one a week or two if I have a couple of hours free with nothing to do. Email marketing is not the only marketing method I use. I also receive clients directly through the search engines, via word-of-mouth referrals and via paid referrals. In the last few months I've also found new clients at local business networking events.

        Hope that helps with your questions
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by MattyD View Post

      Andrew Cavanagh mentioned in another thread that he recommends immediately calling back a business owner that replies to your email. This might be something you would like to think about - it's definitely something that I'll be adding in.

      Yes. I also recommend you tell your client's to do this with website and other inquiries.

      To give you an insight into this imagine that someone is wanting to sell their house and they're searching online to find a way to do it.

      They send an inquiry through an online form on one site.

      Now what do they do next?

      They keep searching right.

      So the agent who calls them back immediately on the telephone halts the search process and has a huge chance of getting that listing.


      When a business owner emails you back he's right there on his computer thinking about you...curious about how you might help him.

      But business owners are busy people. In 15 minutes time he'll be doing something else that takes up his attention.

      Call him immediately while you're top of mind and your chances of getting hired are going to increase enormously.



      On the topic of emailing businesses there are many different ways of doing it.

      I've always suggested personalizing every email and using some curiosity to elicit a response (I'm not telling you how we do it at offlinebiz.com but we do get a high response).

      If you're getting 10% to 20%+ of business owners you send an email to contact you back then you don't need to be sending out hundreds of emails.

      Also since you're personalizing every email and not sending hundreds of them you're not going to have worry about spam.

      It's not the only way of doing it though and anything that's legal moral and ethical and works you should probably consider doing.

      I would also add that hand written letters sent by snail mail are usually far more effective.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author webdelux
    I agree Email marketing is the least effective form of marketing I have ever used or seen used. Anyone who says othersie seels the service and is defending their product. Useless!
    Signature
    Fueled by Advertising Experts.
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    • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
      Originally Posted by webdelux View Post

      I agree Email marketing is the least effective form of marketing I have ever used or seen used. Anyone who says othersie seels the service and is defending their product. Useless!
      The problem with this bold statement is that the thread was started by someone with a vested interest in getting legitimate answers. However, you could use your logic and just say that perhaps the only reason Jacer is starting the thread is to put down e-mail marketing and push telemarketing. (which I know is not the case here at all.)

      At the end of the day all of us here want to help each other get more clients, and I for one am glad Jacer posed the question.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jacer
        Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

        The problem with this bold statement is that the thread was started by someone with a vested interest in getting legitimate answers. However, you could use your logic and just say that perhaps the only reason Jacer is starting the thread is to put down e-mail marketing and push telemarketing. (which I know is not the case here at all.)

        At the end of the day all of us here want to help each other get more clients, and I for one am glad Jacer posed the question.
        Thank you for understanding my reason. I am not here to push any one method to attract clients. I just want to cut to the results and be able to understand how other people effectively market. If it works, I want to learn their methods (and I am sure others do too)!
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  • Profile picture of the author MattyD
    If you think email marketing is ineffective, with the greatest of respect, you're doing it wrong.

    It will convert and generate business, no matter what the industry or topic is. However, you need to have a good campaign, use good content and target the right people.

    If any part of your campaign is not up to scratch it will fail. Simple as that!
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    • Profile picture of the author Nic Lynn
      Originally Posted by MattyD View Post

      If you think email marketing is ineffective, with the greatest of respect, you're doing it wrong.
      I know this repsonse wasn't aimed at me, but I'll jump in anyway.

      It's not about email being ineffective, it is about email generally being the least effective. Period and end of story.

      You can definitely get clients via email. I have. It is a big investment in time, personalization and follow-up. If you enjoy it, then absolutely do it. If you prefer other options, there are plenty.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChadReitsma
      I absolutely agree with Matt and Chad, You can make it a success if you

      a) Believe in your business/product (Why even bother if you don't - Contrary to popular belief... people aren't stupid!)

      b)
      Take the time to collect some personal information/connect with a contact
      Just a simple call to ask their permission to send a "no pressure" marketing e-mail
      (NEVER SPAM!) Is absolutely the key...
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Jacer, the thing you have to remember is that the e-mail success rate (# of closes) is also going to vary by location/niche/business owner age etc....(ofcourse the same applies to ANYTHING --phone calls, direct mail)

    I would imagine some professionals, like real estate agents, are going to be actively checking their personal e-mails. While others, in the contracting fields, maybe not so much. Some people use/need e-mail, while others might check their inbox once in a blue moon if ever at all.

    As for location, people that operate businesses in metro areas might be more likely to regularly read their personal e-mails than those out in the "country". I 100% agree that e-mail needs to be followed up with phone ASAP.


    Also, Thanks Matty for that PHP "merge" tip. I may have to look into something like this.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattyD
    Jim - You're welcome I'll be doing something with that script at some point in the future, so give me a few weeks and I can probably rustle you up a copy of it if you like.
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    • Profile picture of the author edc3076
      Originally Posted by MattyD View Post

      Jim - You're welcome I'll be doing something with that script at some point in the future, so give me a few weeks and I can probably rustle you up a copy of it if you like.
      I would like a copy also if possible thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author edc3076
        I have a question a little of the subject but not. I want to setup a presentation for realtors and I am working with a title company that is willing to send out an email to 3500 realtors on their list. I dont just want to send a regular email, I want to record a message that plays when they open the email. I know their are programs for that any suggestions? thank you for any insight.
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        • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
          Thanks to everyone that read my tirade above.. haha. Glad you guys liked it.


          Originally Posted by edc3076 View Post

          I have a question a little of the subject but not. I want to setup a presentation for realtors and I am working with a title company that is willing to send out an email to 3500 realtors on their list. I dont just want to send a regular email, I want to record a message that plays when they open the email. I know their are programs for that any suggestions? thank you for any insight.
          You could do it with an html email message, but I'd advise against it for a couple reasons:

          1. You don't know where that Realtor will be sitting when they open their email.. if they're not expecting sound, and suddenly they're scrambling for a mute button, you might leave a bad taste in their mouth.

          Study's have shown that automatically playing media on a page, for users that aren't expecting it, increases the bounce rate (how quickly they leave) across the board. I would assume the same would be true for email.

          2. Device compatibility.. a lot of Realtors are using things like blackberry's and iphones to check their emails now... that's going to make it kinda hard to get all of them to work correctly. Not to mention all the different email platforms.

          3. It's kinda lame... I know it sounds cool in concept... but it's lame.

          4. Spam/Firewalls blocking your email and lowering your delivery rate.



          I dunno, those are my thoughts.
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          • Profile picture of the author holysymbol
            You know what? A good old day of a hand written letter still converts better than any form of fanciful bloated html email.
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            • Profile picture of the author painefw
              Originally Posted by holysymbol View Post

              You know what? A good old day of a hand written letter still converts better than any form of fanciful bloated html email.
              100% agree with this statement! everyday of the week
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sadly, the (teachers) end up many times (not all) believing in their own legend... and start pushing out a bunch of CRAP so they wont let their fans down... they start selling thoughts and ideas that are mostly fluff and rehash in order to maintain the guru status...

    If you have ever read the book "The Peter Principle" then you know a man will tend to keep answering questions until he finally reveals his highest level of incompetence...

    Don't fall into that trap. Know what works for you and master it through repetition.

    Emailing for offline profits is BS plain and simple. Sure even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while, but its gonna be the exception not the rule.

    Just sayin...

    Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

    The problem with this bold statement is that the thread was started by someone with a vested interest in getting legitimate answers. However, you could use your logic and just say that perhaps the only reason Jacer is starting the thread is to put down e-mail marketing and push telemarketing. (which I know is not the case here at all.)

    At the end of the day all of us here want to help each other get more clients, and I for one am glad Jacer posed the question.
    If that were Jacers motivation what would be wrong with it?

    He's right. Telemarketing works better. He's just telling the truth.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
      I would sooner get a bullet in the head that have to resort
      to Email marketing for clients. The only big benefit here, would
      be outsourcing the email gathering, outsourcing the initial contact
      and Then and Only then Would i invest my valuable time in making
      contact with a prospective business owner.


      Does it work yes...is it the best methodology out there for
      gathering up prospects, to convert to customers, to covert to
      long term clients, No Way Jose...

      Referrals from everyone, pay a friggen referral fee out, we give
      15-18% for any and all converted referrals. Direct Mail followed
      up with Phone calls...OMG, did he say the Telephone...oh boy there
      is no way i am doing that. Come on now warriors, if you want to become
      a Major Player in the Offline arena, you gotta become Really good at
      all aspects of a business's business.

      Remember... Your in the Result's Business for Business's! Not anything else.

      Will email work yes, is it the most effective...NO

      I'm just sayin...

      To your continued success fellow warriors,
      Robert Nelson
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Hmmm...

    There is a disconnect in what you just said though John.

    "Don't fall into that trap. Know what works for you and master it through repetition.

    Emailing for offline profits is BS plain and simple. Sure even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while, but its gonna be the exception not the rule."

    So, if e-mail clients is working for us and is actually how we initially made contact with the majority of our clients, it is still the exception and telemarketing always works better? I don't buy into that, at least in regards to the "scale" that most offliners are working. I'd imagine telemarketing works great when you have a list of 500,000 people to contact. Most offline warriors don't want/need to contact that many people, and are at least realistic about their possibilities, while still profiting tremendously in this industry.

    I'd imagine the majority of offline warriors on here are not buying massive lead lists and hammering out hundreds and hundreds of calls daily. Or even e-mailing out hundreds of e-mails daily. Most warriors probably have no more than 100 businesses (that they would feel comfortable working with due to locality, skills, resources, time, etc) in a given category they will end up targeting. They are not going for thousands of clients. Crap, I bet most are not even going for HUNDREDS of clients. They want to help businesses make $$$ and they want to make good $$$ doing it. And for the majority of "offliners", I'd imagine they can accomplish this with less than 100 paying clients.

    On the broadest spectrum, I would 100% agree that telemarketing gets better results than e-mailing. But we all know the importance of "exact match". Sorry, couldn't help myself there.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      Hmmm...

      There is a disconnect in what you just said though John.

      "Don’t fall into that trap. Know what works for you and master it through repetition.

      Emailing for offline profits is BS plain and simple. Sure even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while, but its gonna be the exception not the rule."

      So, if e-mail clients is working for us and is actually how we initially made contact with the majority of our clients, it is still the exception and telemarketing always works better? I don't buy into that, at least in regards to the "scale" that most offliners are working. I'd imagine telemarketing works great when you have a list of 500,000 people to contact. Most offline warriors don't want/need to contact that many people, and are at least realistic about their possibilities, while still profiting tremendously in this industry.

      I'd imagine the majority of offline warriors on here are not buying massive lead lists and hammering out hundreds and hundreds of calls daily. Or even e-mailing out hundreds of e-mails daily. Most warriors probably have no more than 100 businesses (that they would feel comfortable working with due to locality, skills, resources, time, etc) in a given category they will end up targeting. They are not going for thousands of clients. Crap, I bet most are not even going for HUNDREDS of clients. They want to help businesses make $$$ and they want to make good $$$ doing it. And for the majority of "offliners", I'd imagine they can accomplish this with less than 100 paying clients.

      On the broadest spectrum, I would 100% agree that telemarketing gets better results than e-mailing. But we all know the importance of "exact match". Sorry, couldn't help myself there.

      Well lets put it this way. If you had a list of email addresses (cold ones) lets say 200 of them, and I had a list of small business owners the same size, and we said "123 Go"

      Which one of us do you think has a better chance of producing 1k in the next 4 hours?

      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      Hmmm...

      So, if e-mail clients is working for us and is actually how we initially made contact with the majority of our clients, it is still the exception and telemarketing always works better?
      Depends on how many clients you get per day I guess. If you have been working for a year and email has landed you 10 clients... I would say hang it up. If it is giving you at least one new client per day , then I'd say its worthwhile.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    What do you mean by "cold" e-mails though? If I have a list of 200 personal e-mails, that I gathered from sites, chamber, etc. I would think e-mail would have just as good of a chance at producing 1k in the next 4 hours as phone? As I also mentioned above, its about using e-mail for the INITIAL contact. Nothing more. I just don't understand why you can't at the very least BE OPEN about the effectiveness of e-mail marketing for offline consultants. Not corporations. Most offliners here are a one or two man operation, and may ALWAYS be.

    I agree that telemarketing is HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, it just doesn't necessarily fit into many offline warriors' lead generation "gameplans". This statement remains true whether or not you agree with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      What do you mean by "cold" e-mails though? If I have a list of 200 personal e-mails, that I gathered from sites, chamber, etc. I would think e-mail would have just as good of a chance at producing 1k in the next 4 hours as phone?

      Not even close.... Emails are simple to ignore. Get someone face to face, or on the phone and it's significantly more difficult (albeit still not hard) to ignore them or reject them.

      200 emails might lead to 1 sale, if you were lucky.

      200 phone calls would probably yield 4+ instant sales, plus more if there were followup.

      200 face to face conversations would pull in 10+ immediate sales if you had someone that was competent, and several more if they knew how to followup.

      those numbers obviously depend on the offer, abilities of the sales people, etc... they're not hard facts.

      The more passive-aggressive your prospecting methods, the lower the conversion. Plain and simple.

      Ever wonder why direct mail gets a .5% response rate? It's because those little postcards are simple for the prospect to throw out. The prospect doesn't have to have any cojones to say "No", it's simply a flick of the wrist and it's in the trash.

      Email is the same way.... it's a simple click on the delete key. No confrontation needed...

      Phones are a little harder.. because it's rude to just hang up on someone (people still do, but it's harder), and saying "no" is harder to do on the phone than over email. Also, with phone, there is an opportunity for a rebuttal to overcome an objection... email/direct mail, there's not.

      Kick it up a notch and face to face selling is even harder to say "no" to than phone (yes, it still happens a lot). You have to actually look some poor schmuck in the eyes and reject him/her to get them out of your office... that's harder than hanging up on them... you get the idea.


      See the trend?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

    What do you mean by "cold" e-mails though? If I have a list of 200 personal e-mails, that I gathered from sites, chamber, etc. I would think e-mail would have just as good of a chance at producing 1k in the next 4 hours as phone? As I also mentioned above, its about using e-mail for the INITIAL contact. Nothing more. I just don't understand why you can't at the very least BE OPEN about the effectiveness of e-mail marketing for offline consultants. Not corporations. Most offliners here are a one or two man operation, and may ALWAYS be.

    I agree that telemarketing is HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, it just doesn't necessarily fit into many offline warriors' lead generation "gameplans". This statement remains true whether or not you agree with it.
    If they (your email list) came from the chamber...sites, and they werent your warm list... I can almost guarantee that within 24 hours you would not have a client, and the whole list of 200 would "open the door" (not "Close") for (maybe) 2 sales maybe over the next 3 weeks, and it would take at least 3 more points of contact to close one of the leads.

    A cold caller can close two sales in 3-4 hours with a list half that size.

    Sorry, just a fact.

    Ps. If what I am saying isnt true, I too want to jump the email bandwagon... but I think Im right.
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    • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


      A cold caller can close two sales in 3-4 hours with a list half that size.

      Sorry, just a fact.

      Ps. If what I am saying isnt true, I too want to jump the email bandwagon... but I think Im right.
      That's wonderful that telemarketing is working so well for you John.

      I'd recommend trying some of the other offline lead generation methods that are discussed here every day, it surely can't hurt.

      But then again, you (or your employees) are calling on hundreds of businesses daily, and IT IS WORKING FOR YOU. So why change anything?

      You are allowed to be "right" in your own business experience, without other people being "wrong" in their own business experience. - Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


      A cold caller can close two sales in 3-4 hours with a list half that size.

      Sorry, just a fact.

      Ps. If what I am saying isnt true, I too want to jump the email bandwagon... but I think Im right.
      One call close: You call a person for the very first time and within minutes you extract money from this call!

      How the heck can you call hundred of people in a few hours unless it's automated you look for only the lay downs. I think doing it this way is a Little spammy.

      It takes a lot of time to actually speak with the decision maker. Then you have to go through the pitch answer any questions and objections! Ask for the money they give you more objections and questions! Then if you close this deal how do they pay you? Check, Paypal, merchant account? How many kicks to you get?

      Potential Customer:
      How are you? What is this all about again? Where are you calling from? I'm busy at the moment call me back. I'm not interested, and so on. Is there any guarantees?

      Look I'm not saying that it's not possible but you have to be a really good closer! But I will bet that many of the people here will not be able to do this! It takes persistence, and be very hard ass to get this done! You will also burn out quickly doing this!

      Why not pick a few great potential clients that can pay you the big bucks instead.

      Just my opinion
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post

        One call close: You call a person for the very first time and within minutes you extract money from this call!

        How the heck can you call hundred of people in a few hours unless it's automated you look for only the lay downs. I think doing it this way is a Little spammy.

        It takes a lot of time to actually speak with the decision maker. Then you have to go through the pitch answer any questions and objections! Ask for the money they give you more objections and questions! Then if you close this deal how do they pay you? Check, Paypal, merchant account? How many kicks to you get?

        Potential Customer:
        How are you? What is this all about again? Where are you calling from? I'm busy at the moment call me back. I'm not interested, and so on. Is there any guarantees?

        Look I'm not saying that it's not possible but you have to be a really good closer! But I will bet that many of the people here will not be able to do this! It takes persistence, and be very hard ass to get this done! You will also burn out quickly doing this!

        Why not pick a few great potential clients that can pay you the big bucks instead.

        Just my opinion

        The term in professional circles is not "spammy". Its called "High Probability Selling", and in 2010 its considered to be much more sophisticated than using manipulation style tactics. Its just directly asking someone. Do you need this service? If not; Thank you "bye".

        High probability selling, while not as glamorous as calling 2 board meetings, making some flashy web presentation and carefully closing a sale over a two week period..., produces just as large a sale, and 10 times the volume.

        The only difference is, you arent "selling", you are talking to people who want your service only.

        Certainly more efficient than other types of manipluative sales that require 3 loss leaders and two board meetings and up to 3 weeks time to close. Who has all that focus to waste?

        The size of the sale can be as big as you want in High Probability Telemarketing. If you want to charge 1k per month and only have 100 clients, thats great.

        Im not saying a ton of clients is the only way to use TM, or that having a ton is for everyone, Im just telling you that high probability selling, mixed with telemarketing is absolutely the fastest way to get that 100 clients.
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      • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
        Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post

        One call close: You call a person for the very first time and within minutes you extract money from this call!

        How the heck can you call hundred of people in a few hours unless it's automated you look for only the lay downs. I think doing it this way is a Little spammy.

        Making 100 calls in a day is easily done without automation.

        When I worked at the Spanish yellow pages (no, i don't speak Spanish) our quota was a minimum of 100 calls per day. No automated auto-dialers etc. WE were responsible for finding our own leads, and then calling them... 100 of them... every day. Plus doing our other responsibilities.

        The guys that did the work, made money..... lots of money. They guys that didn't... well... didn't.

        As much as I don't want to say it.... it's a numbers game. Hear "no" enough times and you will eventually get a "yes". Improve the way you present your offer, and the number of "yes's" improves.

        I wasn't spammy about it, I was quick to qualify. If the business owner was legitimately not interested, I was onto the next call. I had no intention of trying to convince people that they were interested, only trying to find those people that were already interested but hadn't actively sought out a solution yet. Unfortunately, to do that, many times it's necessary to wade through a puddle of people that aren't interested (right now).

        Laydowns, low fruit, easy sales, call them what you want... but if you're working the phones trying to convince people that they're interested in your offer... you're in for an uphill battle.


        It takes a lot of time to actually speak with the decision maker. Then you have to go through the pitch answer any questions and objections! Ask for the money they give you more objections and questions! Then if you close this deal how do they pay you? Check, Paypal, merchant account? How many kicks to you get?

        Potential Customer:
        How are you? What is this all about again? Where are you calling from? I'm busy at the moment call me back. I'm not interested, and so on. Is there any guarantees?

        Look I'm not saying that it's not possible but you have to be a really good closer! But I will bet that many of the people here will not be able to do this! It takes persistence, and be very hard ass to get this done! You will also burn out quickly doing this!

        Why not pick a few great potential clients that can pay you the big bucks instead.

        Just my opinion
        You don't have to be a really good closer. You don't have to be a hard ass... you just have to have an offer that is valuable to the people you contact, that you believe in and you have to be able to convey that value to the person that you're talking to.

        The thing that I've found to be the absolute LARGEST variable in the ability for a sales person to close a transaction or not is this:

        Does the sales person believe in the product they're selling?

        If that answer is yes.... "selling" is absolutely effortless.



        Think about that next time you guys are selling your own stuff....

        Do you BELIEVE in your own stuff? Do you just KNOW that you can help someone change their life? Save their business? Improve the quality of their lifestyle? etc.

        Or are you just trying to make a buck?


        Be honest with yourselves.... because if you truly believe in what you're able to offer these people and you KNOW you can help them, it's downright irresponsible of you NOT to get out there and spread your message and help these people!

        Getting on the phone at that point, will be a breeze...

        Going into an office face to face will be simple....

        And your close ratio will soar....



        Picture this, you fall upon a cure for cancer.... what do you do? Send out a few emails and hope people respond? Or do you tell every living being you can come across, take out a billboard in time square, and buy out media on CNN for 24 hour time slots 365 days in a year??

        Obviously that's extreme, but if you don't believe in your product in a similar fashion, maybe it's time to adjust your product until you do?




        Just some thoughts... I know i kinda got off track. haha. Sorry for all my rambling.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chad Heffelfinger
          Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

          The thing that I've found to be the absolute LARGEST variable in the ability for a sales person to close a transaction or not is this:

          Does the sales person believe in the product they're selling?

          If that answer is yes.... "selling" is absolutely effortless.


          Think about that next time you guys are selling your own stuff....

          Do you BELIEVE in your own stuff? Do you just KNOW that you can help someone change their life? Save their business? Improve the quality of their lifestyle? etc.

          Or are you just trying to make a buck?


          Be honest with yourselves.... because if you truly believe in what you're able to offer these people and you KNOW you can help them, it's downright irresponsible of you NOT to get out there and spread your message and help these people!

          Getting on the phone at that point, will be a breeze...

          Going into an office face to face will be simple....

          And your close ratio will soar....
          I have been watching this thread and pretty much staying out of the conversation because I am kind of strange and am more of an "In Person" type, but what you said in that post was great advice.

          If you don't believe in what you are selling it is very hard to do. If what you have doesn't truly help a client they can pick up on that very easily and you have an up hill battle going on.

          Make sure you know you can help and provide value and the selling becomes much easier no matter what method you choose.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    I bet they can. And they are fortunate to have access to such skilled salespeople.

    It still doesn't change the fact that:

    "telemarketing is HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, it just doesn't necessarily fit into many offline warriors' lead generation "gameplans".

    I may have to start a thread out of curiousity to see how many warriors are using telemarketers/telemarketing as their INITIAL point of contact with business owners. I am curious...and I AM OPEN to what's working for other warriors. - Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Jacer
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      I bet they can. And they are fortunate to have access to such skilled salespeople.

      It still doesn't change the fact that:

      "telemarketing is HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, it just doesn't necessarily fit into many offline warriors' lead generation "gameplans".
      Why doesn't it fit? And what is the substitute?

      I know why I don't use email as much. It has not produced consistent results for me. But why do most offline marketers not use the phones to get clients?
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  • Profile picture of the author zenji
    Am not sure about what you are saying here. I have a small list of 60 and have made a couple of sales from it so I believe email marketing works.
    Mind you that is not for my personal blog. That list of 60 has been built with pure SEO and included double opt ins so everyone on the list is readily keen to see what I have to offer and yes they actually buy!

    That's my personal experience though.

    Dennis
    Signature

    Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

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  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    Cold emailing small businesses as an only means to gain new customers is..... well.... a waste of time, not to mention the fact that it's spamming people.

    Sure, implement email in your followup plan, but doing a spray and pray on cold email addresses you harvest from websites isn't effective at all. Sadly, this is how most people do it because they're too lazy/scared to go out in public or to pick up the phone and actually TALK to people.


    When I'm prospecting, i try and hit people from as many different angles as i can during the sales process. I stop in and talk face to face, i make phone calls, i send follow up notes (yes, actual paper), I send emails, etc. I use every possible means of communication in order to stay in front of them.

    My close ratio is stupid high because I take the time and effort to follow up in several different fashions and I stay in front of my prospects, even if they're not ready to buy right now. Subsequently, this also means that I don't have to prospect that often because my business model only requires that I have maybe 5 clients at a time.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay. Im just expressing my opinion... really facts.

    If someone has a list of less than 10k that produces 2 sales per day. Then I am wrong.

    Didnt mean to upset anyone. Im sure email will produce a $1,000 sale or two once in a great while.

    Namaste

    Im out for today.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Jacer, they do "use phones". I mean have we been arguing this whole time about how people are able to score clients without "using phones"? LOL

    In my own experience, and in Matty's above, targeted e-mails have worked wonderfully as an INITIAL POINT OF CONTACT. That is it. Nothing gets done without at the very least a phonecall, we only wish it was that easy, don't we?
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  • Profile picture of the author believemarketing
    What is goin on here?

    some people prefer ppc
    some people prefer article marketing
    some people prefer cpa to clickbank

    just gotta go with what works for you... no need to be cynical...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jacer
      Originally Posted by believemarketing View Post

      What is goin on here?

      some people prefer ppc
      some people prefer article marketing
      some people prefer cpa to clickbank

      just gotta go with what works for you... no need to be cynical...
      Jacer, they do "use phones". I mean have we been arguing this whole time about how people are able to score clients without "using phones"? LOL
      I am just trying to understand the WHY, not trying to argue or be cynical with anyone. Sometimes people have misconceptions that can be overcome through an honest dialog from people with different experiences. That is what I am trying to initiate here in this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
        Originally Posted by Jacer View Post

        I am just trying to understand the WHY, not trying to argue or be cynical with anyone. Sometimes people have misconceptions that can be overcome through an honest dialog from people with different experiences. That is what I am trying to initiate here in this thread.
        Sorry I missed this one Jacer. I completely understand you're not being cynical and I am very glad you started this thread as I said before, for the reasons you mentioned above.

        As for the WHY people don't use traditional telemarketing tactics as an initial point of contact with business owners? Well, honestly when was the last time you bought something (of a fairly high value for your consulting business) from someone who just called you up offering something one day? I mean gave them your credit card RIGHT THEN. I realize e-mail is obviously the same thing. And that is why it can be a great door-opener, but not an all powerful solution. That is why, as we've elaborated, it takes all types of approaches to be successful, and any one method can be successful for some and a complete waste for others. I just did not see telemarketing (used for intitial point of contact) fitting in with my own business personality at all.

        Also, when business owners CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY tell me that telemarketing (ESPECIALLY FROM THE "SEO GET FIRST PLACE ON GOOGLE"-DRONES) is one of their LARGEST complaints in regards to the entire "internet marketing" thing....well I think this affects my own approaches in lead gen. - Jim
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post


          As for the WHY people don't use traditional telemarketing tactics as an initial point of contact with business owners? Well, honestly when was the last time you bought something (of a fairly high value for your consulting business) from someone who just called you up offering something one day? I mean gave them your credit card RIGHT THEN?
          I think a better question to ask jacer is " When was the last time one of your telemarketers got someones credit card over the phone from a cold call out of the blue for any signifcant amount..."

          The answer to that one might shock the heck out of you.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Very solid points mr2monster, and I don't think anyone on here is debating those facts. All we were trying to discuss was that we have had success in e-mailing business owners as an INITIAL POINT OF CONTACT. It might work, it might not. Just like any of the other million lead generating processes out there.

    In general, ofcourse facetoface is probably going to close a deal faster, no one here will debate that one. It just seems like anytime people mention having success with e-mailing business owners, some people on here have to constantly talk about how ineffective it is on a large scale. But as I mentioned above, most offliners here are not working on a "large scale" at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      It just seems like anytime people mention having success with e-mailing business owners, some people on here have to constantly talk about how ineffective it is on a large scale. But as I mentioned above, most offliners here are not working on a "large scale" at all.
      Sorry to come back in... gotta say it "but they WANT to be"
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    • Profile picture of the author MattyD
      Face-to-face marketing is fantastic. Either at networking events as initial contact and then going to see them after, or walking straight into their business - I definitely agree that it's a great way to build rapport and trust.

      I don't disagree that telephone marketing is not awesome either. It's not something I've ever used to a great extent as it's something that disrupts me at least 2-3 times a day and I never wanted to be seen as disruptive to a potential client. It's a personal opinion and I'm sure illogical to some of you hardcore telephone marketers - but it's just how I roll.

      Following from this thread, what I'll probably do is run a split test in a couple of weeks running through some telephone and email marketing. If it works for me and I can live with it ethically, I'm sure it'll prove useful

      We've all got our own opinions on what works well and this is why forums are great. People can share ideas and theories and get real-time feedback.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MattyD View Post

        Face-to-face marketing is fantastic. Either at networking events as initial contact and then going to see them after, or walking straight into their business - I definitely agree that it's a great way to build rapport and trust.

        I don't disagree that telephone marketing is not awesome either. It's not something I've ever used to a great extent as it's something that disrupts me at least 2-3 times a day and I never wanted to be seen as disruptive to a potential client. It's a personal opinion and I'm sure illogical to some of you hardcore telephone marketers - but it's just how I roll.

        Following from this thread, what I'll probably do is run a split test in a couple of weeks running through some telephone and email marketing. If it works for me and I can live with it ethically, I'm sure it'll prove useful

        We've all got our own opinions on what works well and this is why forums are great. People can share ideas and theories and get real-time feedback.
        I guess I really have trouble with people needing to justify the "ethics" when some of the most notably ethical and well established companies on the planet use it daily to make 100's of thousands of calls...

        But who are we to argue with them?
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        • Profile picture of the author MattyD
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          I guess I really have trouble with people needing to justify the "ethics" when some of the most notably ethical and well established companies on the planet use it daily to make 100's of thousands of calls...

          But who are we to argue with them?
          I'm well aware that they do John - it makes them an absolute fortune. Like I said - personal opinion and feelings I just wasn't comfortable doing it for my business.

          I'll definitely let you know how my split testing goes though - I imagine the results will be quite interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
    You guys crack me up ...

    It works

    It doesn't work

    It takes effort

    It's effortless

    Look I hate to burst bubbles but offline marketing requires work just like anything else.

    Does it work? Yes

    Does it require work? Yes

    Are there other methods that work? Yes

    Do those methods require works? Yes

    There is no best method and frankly if you're only doing one method you're an idiot.

    Pick two or three things and DO THEM ALL at once for maximum results.


    Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    It probably would John. Unfortunately, most people here will never have that "sales ace" personality that it takes to do what you described a consistent basis, nor do they have the funds/time/resources/etc to pay and/or train a dedicated sales ace like that. I doubt many offline warriors will even hire a sales person at all...for one reason or another. And that is why I believe that many here prefer at least TRYING to e-mail business owners as an initial point of contact.

    I AM curious to hear about other Warrior's successes using telemarketing/buying lead lists as an initial point of contact though. - Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      It probably would John. Unfortunately, most people here will never have that "sales ace" personality that it takes to do what you described a consistent basis, nor do they have the funds/time/resources/etc to pay and/or train a dedicated sales ace like that. I doubt many offline warriors will even hire a sales person at all...for one reason or another. And that is why I believe that many here prefer at least TRYING to e-mail business owners as an initial point of contact.

      I AM curious to hear about other Warrior's successes using telemarketing/buying lead lists as an initial point of contact though. - Jim
      understandable. Sorry for giving you a hard time. I think anyone can and I am glad to train you if you want to try ever. Good arguments here. Produced educational dialogue for everyones benefit.
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      • Profile picture of the author internetsweetie
        I appreciate each person's stance on the email communication vs phone communication. Personally, as someone who has their email address on their website,
        I get 100's of emails per day with offers of help and they all end up in spam, automatically. I also get tons of direct postcards, magazines, etc. every year because I'm on the chambers list and I get lots of solicitations by phone.
        Maybe because I'm in the marketing game but none of it moves me.
        Small businesses generally have voice mail or gatekeepers and emails have spam filters and postal mail well is just to easy to throw out.
        But I know that integrated marketing and communications has to be the answer so I will split test and see what happens. I believe all of you are right based on your experience, and who can argue with experience?

        PS Jacer, I would LOVE to be trained. I fear the phone from years ago selling magazines and being rejected all day. Can you help me?
        Signature

        Internet Sweetie
        ---

        Freedom from the 9 to 5 can be so sweet.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @mr2monster

    Bravo Dude. That was pure undilluted, concentrated hardcore fact, that will put money in someones pocket if they listen. Brav-o!
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    • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @mr2monster

      Bravo Dude. That was pure undilluted, concentrated hardcore fact, that will put money in someones pocket if they listen. Brav-o!
      x2 for Mr2monster Could not have said it any better myself...In an age where texting and email prevail, phone and in person Dominate. Nuff Said...

      Robert
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Jacer
    Interesting that with 50 replies only one person half answered the question I originally posted. For the good of everyone, I was looking for actual experience, not theories.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    So hows the email comin guys? Any success reports this week?
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    • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      So hows the email comin guys? Any success reports this week?
      John, I enjoy and learn from many of your great contributions to this forum, but this is certainly cynical nonsense posing for a post.

      I think we can all agree that most people on here are out there getting clients every which way they can. We all learned new stuff from other people in this thread, we had our disagreements, etc. But why come back a week later and try to "come out on top", as if the thread was a competition, well it seems a bit juvenile to me. Would you not agree that your question sounds a wee bit condescending? Especially towards the people that contributed to such a helpful thread?

      But, I'm predicting you will come back and say that you are genuinely interested in using e-mail, as you are considering it for lead gen, etc. But then why would you, being so successful in using only YOUR methods that have worked for YOU.

      I get it, you guys have a great telemarketing forum and have tons of success with generating leads and closing deals over the phone. You have provided some truly AWESOME free script advice. Telemarketing works. But, there is nothing wrong with other approaches and there is no need to be obviously cynical.

      I'm not coming back on here and asking "Hey guys, how's the phone calls coming? Any success stories?" You know why? Because you'll be sure to pop in and tell me just how successful it is...FOR YOU....or for some people you coach, or your students, etc. And then when some other people come in and talk about how e-mailing or direct-mailing works for them better, you'll be sure to not only disagree, but you'll be "just stating facts". I just wish you could be a bit more open.

      I love this subforum in the WF, but it just seems most of the threads go in the exact same cycles, etc.

      EDIT: For anyone reading this thread that is interested in some e-mail techniques, here is another good thread from the subforum that I previously missed: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...e-clients.html

      - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimian
    I found emailing to work primarily when emailing to craigslist posters to get offline leads.

    Reason: it'S GUARANTEED to get in the inbox (using CL's email
    anonymizer they provide to posters.)

    JIM
    Signature

    OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior
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