Advice From The Other Side of a Cold Call

by WillDL
42 replies
I'm Director of Media for a personal injury law firm. I'm in charge of all our advertising and public relations efforts. If you call with an advertising service or product, and can talk your way around the receptionist, I'm the one you have to convince. It was a weird a path- consulting, selling web hosting services and trying my luck as an affiliate for anything under the sun- that got me here, and I understand struggling to get sales and break into a new market. I thought people might find insight from the other side of the cold call helpful

First thing I have to say is the advice on the forum is generally great, but one thing that isn't anywhere near stressed enough is the importance of knowing your market. A lot of professions, notably Lawyers, medical professionals and Realtors, have very specific rules about what they can and can not do in advertising. These rules vary from state to state, and failure to abide by them can cost a business its license to practice in that state.

Having a good idea is not enough, you have to know exactly how to implement it for a certain business. To give you an example, a law firm in South Carolina can not have any testimonial unless that testimonial is verifiable fact, recorded on a sworn affidavit, taken by a lawyer working for a firm with no financial ties to the firm for which the affidavit was taken.

Why is this important for you the marketer to know?

Simple, if you want to establish credibility with me don't tell me how badly I need a testimonials section on my website. Yes, that is great, general marketing advice. It would also cost the Lawyers in the firm their law licenses. More importantly, to you, it costs you any authority you might have as someone who understands my market.

If you want to establish credibility in a market here are some important steps you can't overlook.

1) Find out if the profession has any special licensing requirements in your state.
2) If it is regulated, find out what licensing body oversees regulation.
3) Call that licensing body and ask where you can find a copy of their Rules of Professional Conduct (or similar name).
4) Learn them backwards and forwards, making sure you find out what any language you are unclear on means.

Sometimes you will find out that your great idea is in violation of the rules, or that the pay structure you want is a real no no. Regulated professions often have very tight rules about giving % commissions.

Trust me when I say that businesses will love you for knowing their particular circumstance. It is how a sales pitch I made for hosting and SEO services resulted in a full time job offer.
#advice #call #cold #cold calling #offline #sales #side
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    • Profile picture of the author FMLLC
      Excellent advice, and something most people doing law marketing don't consider or think about.

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author GCooper
        Great insight, thanks!

        -G
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    • Profile picture of the author TE2
      Excellent post!

      For example - in New York you need to distinguish between referral services and advertising services for attorneys. Referral services have to meet a much higher standard than advertising.

      As the OP stated, you must know the market (and its rules) if you want to play in that space without getting burnt.

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        Sometimes you will find out that your great idea is in violation of the rules, or that the pay structure you want is a real no no. Regulated professions often have very tight rules about giving % commissions.
        This is such an important point!

        I have had a lot of experience working with stockbrokers and financial planners in this regard, and we set it up so that my client was totally responsible for "compliance" (what they called it).

        I admit, though, that I was once caught unawares when a client who was marketing to doctors found out rather late in the game that the cost structure they'd set up was not allowed in the medical profession. That cost structure was my client's idea, not mine, but it would have been nice if I'd been able to warn them off it earlier. They had to come up with a whole new business model!

        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Will,

    You hit the nail on the head with this one. Its so important to understand the niche your going after! As you stated, if you have an intimate understanding of the market your marketing to you do nothing but build further credibility over the last Joe blow that tried to sell them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jagged
    Spot-on info Will...

    This is what separates the true "consultants" from the one service salesmen type. In order to help & educate your client....you must educate yourself first....
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  • Profile picture of the author cbest
    Thank you for the input..
    TE - some biz have liability issues when giving referrals ie medical professions.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    Disclamer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, do your own research as to your state's laws.
    Originally Posted by cbest View Post

    Thank you for the input..
    TE - some biz have liability issues when giving referrals ie medical professions.
    Cbest, the kind of referral service he is talking about is what we would normally call a lead generation business on these forums.

    In SC an advertising service is hired by a company to create advertising for a business. They are paid a set amount for the work and it is the client who runs the ads and is responsible for making sure that the content of the ads is compliant.

    A referral service creates and runs advertising on its own and then sells the clients generated to businesses, either for a flat rate or a % of the profit. Referral services are also a big no-no for a lot of businesses. Law firms, again in SC, can not offer a % of profits to another entity unless it is another law firm. And the person selling those leads risks being considered to be practicing law without a license if they aren't very careful.

    If you don't set it up correctly you could be considered to have taken a client for legal services, and then associated with another firm, that specializes in that field, to do the actual work for a % of the profit. It is common practice among law firms, but major, jail time, trouble if you don't have a law license.

    Not my intention when I started this thread, but really important to note. You can get in huge trouble running advertising for regulated professions. Be very careful about knowing the laws if you want to start a referral type service.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    In the past, you could set a landing page to collect leads as long as you informed prospect you don't provide legal advise and will be forwarding their name to a law firm licensed in their state.

    The other way was to create a targeted info product and collect prospects names. Then you had to contact them with more info and direct them to a landing page where they can ask to be contacted by a law firm.

    Has anything changed recently?

    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author WillDL
      Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

      In the past, you could set a landing page to collect leads as long as you informed prospect you don't provide legal advise and will be forwarding their name to a law firm licensed in their state.

      The other way was to create a targeted info product and collect prospects names. Then you had to contact them with more info and direct them to a landing page where they can ask to be contacted by a law firm.

      Has anything changed recently?

      Thomas
      Again, it depends on your state and I am not a Lawyer, I just work for one. Nothing here is legal advise. Yes, I'm going to post that every time.

      SC has some of the strictest rules regarding Lawyer solicitation in the country. Best example I can give of that is that lawyers are specifically disallowed from even implying they are better than another law firm in their advertising.

      What you described would stay within the rules, provided the law firm paid a flat fee per lead, regardless of whether or not we signed the client. There are two problems with that from our perspective (and since we're the client that's the only perspective that matters).

      1) We could very well have to go up and defend your advertising methods, wording, and compensation contract before the state Bar's ethics committee. Which means myself and our corporate counsel will be going through every word on your website with a fine toothed comb to make sure everything is kosher. For a lot less time, energy and money we could adapt a campaign we are already running. We've already expended that energy and we own the resulting website. For us to take a lead generators word on their site they'd have to be backed by a very substantial E&O policy (which some of the big boys are).

      2) A lot of people calling personal injury law firms are what I call "legal hypochondriacs". They have no idea what constitutes grounds for legal action, and there is nothing we or any other law firm can do for them. They want to sue Wal Mart b/c they slipped in the parking lot on a rainy day, which they can't. Or they want to sue their doctor because they got one of the side effects listed on the side of their prescription bottle. Which is assumed risk.

      We keep over 97% of leads we want and we convert a very low rate (no I will not post that rate). Leads that we have bought from brokers, even very reputable brokers, convert into clients abysmally at 1 in every 76. It simply isn't worth the cost.

      Keep in mind I'm talking about a very specific sub-field of law. I know divorce attorneys who swear by their lead generators, and I know their generators who are making bank.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Great post. Another note is that different industries have their own "jargon". If you can speak any industry jargon that goes a long way as well. Such as most people call a roll of wallpaper a "roll"... but an international industry professional calls it a "bolt".

    The advantage to targeting a "niche" market as opposed to a broader approach is that you get the opportunity to learn the "Lingo" faster, and that helps.

    I learned in the songwriting industry long ago that to appeal to a certain demographic , knowing their "jargon" goes along way in helping them accept you as one of their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Thank you for your post. Good points.

    Our marketing was either flat fee per lead or flat monthly fee. Info product we marketed was an initial report and then serious of reports/articles created by lawyers or law copywriters.

    Example:

    "Injured in a car accident? Find out what to do before hiring any lawyer!"

    I don't remember exact wording, but the above describes the idea. Simple stuff.


    Thomas
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    • In most regulated industries, you can still have generic info websites, like Thomas said. This also goes for any company that specifically states that they have to approve all marketing. Most times, you can still have a squeeze page giving away a free report that is generic in nature. Obviously, you would want to make sure you know the laws so that it does not conflict with any regulations.
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  • Profile picture of the author mindykoch
    It seems that no matter how long I have been involved in Internet Marketing (which is off and on since 1998) I keep turning corners and running into valuable information I didn't know. This is a GREAT tip about how not having the RIGHT info can destroy credibility. Another case of not knowing what I didn't know. I probably would have made that phone call about needing testimonials. In fact - I am SURE I would have.

    You have given me GREAT food for thought here.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    I'm glad people are finding the post useful. Does anyone have a specific question they want to run by someone who actually is the decision maker for a mid-sized business?

    *I reserve the right to not answer any question that is not appropriate. Here are the answers to the three question I can think of that are off limits.:

    Would you pay $x for this service package?
    Does it bring in $10x or more per month? Business decision makers don't care what package you are offering, or what the price is. They care that it will provide a good ROI and won't get them into legal trouble.

    Will you buy my services?
    No, but I'll post a want ad or go to the Warriors for Hire section next time I need something.

    What advertising strategies is the firm you work for currently using? How do they convert? How much do you spend?
    There is no way I am answering specific questions about our current advertising strategies, what has or has not worked in the past, our spending, or anything that could be used by our competitors. Those answers are not mine to give. It would be a major violation of my employer's trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Question:

    How much attention does your firm pay to reputation marketing and authority positioning? Are you currently spending money in that area?


    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author WillDL
      Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

      Question:

      How much attention does your firm pay to reputation marketing and authority positioning? Are you currently spending money in that area?


      Thomas
      A lot. I spend so much time on reputation management, that I didn't get around to taking quotes for a new website design until last week. It is that important.

      If you want a foot in the door with lawyers go with a good reputation management pitch. They understand it better and crave it more. Once you get in the door with reputation management you can talk about SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Question 2:

    Do you employ social media? Are you using Facebook and if yes, how successfully?
    By successfully I mean is it worth it?
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    • Profile picture of the author WillDL
      Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

      Question 2:
      Do you employ social media? Are you using Facebook and if yes, how successfully?
      By successfully I mean is it worth it?
      We are looking into it. The possible, legal complications of being "friends" with people who might end up being defendants scares us. We also worry that a business page being "liked" would be considered a testimonial.
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      • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
        Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

        A lot. I spend so much time on reputation management, that I didn't get around to taking quotes for a new website design until last week. It is that important.

        If you want a foot in the door with lawyers go with a good reputation management pitch. They understand it better and crave it more. Once you get in the door with reputation management you can talk about SEO.
        Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

        We are looking into it. The possible, legal complications of being "friends" with people who might end up being defendants scares us. We also worry that a business page being "liked" would be considered a testimonial.

        Excellent points and I thank you for that contribution. I have found that retail Insurance agents have different rules and regulations as wholesale brokers too.

        You really can't sell something you know nothing about. Well.... you can....

        It just reduces the odds greatly.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Thank you for your responses. I started to notice a trend with "reputation/authority" marketing within many other markets too. Great news!
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  • Profile picture of the author loganquinn
    You bring up a great point about knowing the businesses - but I'm afraid that ANY cold calling is a stupid idea.

    Why?

    Because no matter how you do it, business owners HATE cold calls. They hate sales people. Business owners / managers are busy and don't have the time to spare.

    In the last three years in this business, I have made only a few cold calls, only because there was no other way around it.

    Trust me, cold calling is the LAST thing you want to do to generate business...

    ...because there are easier, less invasive ways to sell...

    Why make your life any more difficult than it has to be?

    Just my .02.

    -Logan
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    • Profile picture of the author WillDL
      Originally Posted by loganquinn View Post

      You bring up a great point about knowing the businesses - but I'm afraid that ANY cold calling is a stupid idea.

      Why?

      Because no matter how you do it, business owners HATE cold calls. They hate sales people. Business owners / managers are busy and don't have the time to spare.

      In the last three years in this business, I have made only a few cold calls, only because there was no other way around it.

      Trust me, cold calling is the LAST thing you want to do to generate business...

      ...because there are easier, less invasive ways to sell...

      Why make your life any more difficult than it has to be?

      Just my .02.

      -Logan
      I disagree. Emphatically, and without reservation. Of course, cold calling should not be your sole lead generation tactic. But ignoring it is foolish, especially if you are new. If you are generating all the business you want without cold calls, good for you but don't tell people they don't work. That simply isn't so. There would not be a multi-billion dollar telemarketing industry if that were true.

      Business owners do have a love hate relationship with cold calls, and if you are going to play the game you need thick skin. It's a direct marketing campaign to an audience you have zero credibility with. Cold call, direct mail, or what ever else you do those campaigns have enormous rejection rates. It is just a fact of life.

      The trick is to understand the purpose of a cold call and how to do one well. Cold calling works best on a mid-sized business. 10-40 employees. This business is small enough the receptionist probably has the authority to send a call directly to a decision maker. Go for larger and you get past the gate keeper to find.... Another gatekeeper in the form of the boss' personal assistant.

      More importantly, it is large enough enough that they should have a solid intake system in place to handle incoming calls. You are not taking up premium real estate a possible client/customer could be trying to use to buy their product. You might wait on hold, but if you know how to handle a gatekeeper you'll get the decision maker's voice-mail.

      I send all sales people to voice mail. Every time, I've got no interest in your pitch. I also listen to every voice mail they leave. This is standard practice for other managers, owners and decision makers. The possibility you've got something really good is too, potentially, valuable not to give it thirty seconds.

      Here is where understanding the cold call from this side of the phone is vital. Leaving the message is a win. You have one sentence to convince me to give you the 45 seconds of the whole message. Then you've got 45 seconds to convince me to hear your pitch.

      I want to make this clear you have my undivided attention, and so the undivided attention of my discretionary spending account, for one sentence. Make it count. You do that and you've got 45 seconds to convince me to contact you, not buy your product. You are throwing away your one shot if you try to sell the product in the message. We don't listen to follow up messages if we aren't sold the first time.

      Practice the pre-pitch, convince me you are an expert, and for God's sake give me multiple options on contacting you. Phone, e-mail, website. Just leave me a phone number and you are disrespecting my time. I can only call in specific times and it takes longer than an e-mail or contact form. Disrespect me and I won't call you back.

      If you make 100 calls you can reasonably expect 2 solid leads. Anyone with the nerve and time management skills can make 100 cold calls in a day. Devote 2 days a week to cold calling and you have four solid, free leads a week. If you can't close one, revise your pitch, because it is crap.

      I posted this strategy in another thread but it bears repeating. If done well you'll get at least a 4% closure rate. Closure rate, as in at least 1 out of 25 prospects becomes a client.

      It is a three part strategy, Cold Call, Pitch, Appointment.

      1) The Cold Call:

      The Cold Call come in two variations, written and oral. It does not sell your product, it does not establish you as an authority. It gets your prospect to the Pitch.

      The oral Cold Call is the message you leave with the decision maker. It is short, sweet, and tells them how to get to the Pitch. It is said confidently and naturally. No "ums", no "ers" no "likes". Speak at a normal pace, like we are having a conversation.

      The entire thing needs to be done in thirty seconds and I need to be able to write down the pitch information without you repeating it or having to listen to the message again. Using this strategy you do not leave any information other than how to access the Pitch. Doing so dilutes your message and wastes time.

      The written Cold Call is the exact same thing, only on paper. It is written on your company's letter head. If you don't have letterhead, you can make it in Microsoft word, just be sure to print it on premium letterhead/resume paper. They sell it at Target and at Staples.

      Four sentences, no more. Clean, concise, professional. Envelope made of premium paper and neatly, hand addressed to the decision maker, by name. The advantage of the written Cold Call is it provides your contact info without diluting your message. The disadvantage is it is not free.

      2) The Pitch:

      Your Pitch is a great example of the service you want to sell that is branded with your info, and that the prospect can view at their leisure without having to contact you directly. The Cold Call gives them everything they need to access the Pitch. Most importantly the Pitch shows, it does not tell.

      If you are trying to sell SEO to chiropractors, taking the example from the thread I originally posted this in, make a website for a chiropractor's office. Get it to the number one spot on google. Put your company's info, a direct contact phone number, an e-mail and a contact us form on the website.

      If you are selling reputation management services, let them access your articles and post cards and give them the link to your book on amazon.

      The Pitch does not sell your service, it establishes you as an authority and schedules the Appointment.

      The Appointment:

      This is where you close. Give yourself at least a week to prepare. Come in knowing the business. Have specifics, not general suggestions and advice. Have one strategy that really wows the prospect that can be implemented as soon as they give the green light. Start the relationship strong. It will get them talking to all their friends about how amazing you are.

      Optional 4th Step- The Referral:

      Once you have closed and your "wow me" strategy has started to deliver its first results, send the client another letter. Letterhead, premium paper all the way through, hand addressed. No more than six sentences. Thank them for their business. Explain that referrals are your primary means of getting new clients. Ask them if they know anyone who might need your services. Give them 10% off your monthly fee for each referral that signs up for as long as that referral stays a client. Suddenly you have an army of sales people desperate to get you ten referrals.

      Send them a hand written thank you note each time they send you a referral that signs.

      A quick aside: "Advice From The Other Side of a Cold Call" is a title I found catchy. Perhaps "Advice from the Inside" would have been a better title. I have no problem with answering questions that don't have to do with cold calling. Just check my previous post about questions I'll ignore.
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      • Profile picture of the author loganquinn
        Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

        Business owners do have a love hate relationship with cold calls, and if you are going to play the game you need thick skin. It's a direct marketing campaign to an audience you have zero credibility with. Cold call, direct mail, or what ever else you do those campaigns have enormous rejection rates. It is just a fact of life.
        My point exactly. Why would the average person out there want to go through that kind of experience when there are easier ways to sell that actually work?
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        • Profile picture of the author WillDL
          Originally Posted by loganquinn View Post

          My point exactly. Why would the average person out there want to go through that kind of experience when there are easier ways to sell that actually work?
          If that is too much work to secure a client then you probably won't keep them long. That sounds like a more personal attack than I mean it to, but my point is owning a real, sustainable business is a lot of work. If this level of comitment to the business scares someone off, they need to rethink what they are doing.

          On another note, for some people that isn't an experience at all. I think it's pie. Because I'm good at it. But most importantly, this thread is about helping your fellow warriors.

          I showed you mine. Don't like it? Show me yours. I'll be the first person to thank a helpful strategy you throw up.
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          • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
            Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

            If that is too much work to secure a client then you probably won't keep them long. That sounds like a more personal attack than I mean it to, but my point is owning a real, sustainable business is a lot of work. If this level of comitment to the business scares someone off, they need to rethink what they are doing.

            On another note, for some people that isn't an experience at all. I think it's pie. Because I'm good at it. But most importantly, this thread is about helping your fellow warriors.

            I showed you mine. Don't like it? Show me yours. I'll be the first person to thank a helpful strategy you throw up.
            This probably won't happen because there is a sales pitch coming. I can feel it. I have practical experience of what works and what doesn't work.

            I know that cold calling works. When the chips are down and my back is against the wall... I can lock my self in my office with nothing but a phone and a list.

            I will come out with money in the bank.

            I generally target smaller and easier to reach businesses. What you are talking about here takes a little more panache and skill.

            That is ok.. I have trained with the little fish and am ready to move toward a larger market. That has always been my plan.

            Build a portfolio of small business success stories, then move up to the next level. Until I am the go to guy for all the fortune 1000's... it will take time... but we all have to start somewhere.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          Because if you have the grit to go through it you end up having a close ratio that beats any other form of marketing there is, and you can literally go out and write business on demand.

          I'll be reading more on this thread but this one particular point stuck out.

          Originally Posted by loganquinn View Post

          My point exactly. Why would the average person out there want to go through that kind of experience when there are easier ways to sell that actually work?
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          • Profile picture of the author blissk
            Great discussion....some of these caveats I was unaware for marketing certain professions. Does anyone know of any particular rules for what NOT TO DO for medical profession?
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            • Profile picture of the author blissk
              Actually did some digging and answered my own question. Found code of ethics for advertising by Americal medical association:

              Code of Medical Ethics: AMA Ethics Guide for Physicians

              There is a whole policy on advertising and media relations - many nuances I was not aware of.

              Here is a quote from site that basically says whatever advertised is FACTUALLY verified and not creating misleading expectations in the mind of clients or patients.

              "Because physicians have an ethical obligation to share medical advances, it is unlikely that a physician will have a truly exclusive or unique skill or remedy. Claims that imply such a skill or remedy therefore can be deceptive. Statements that a physician has an exclusive or unique skill or remedy in a particular geographic area, if true, however, are permissible. Similarly, a statement that a physician has cured or successfully treated a large number of cases involving a particular serious ailment is deceptive if it implies a certainty of result and creates unjustified and misleading expectations in prospective patients."

              -Anand
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  • Profile picture of the author redcell1
    I just wanted to say thanks to everyone here for posting, I admit I have nothing to add but everything to gain.
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    Just here to see the shenanigans.

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    • Profile picture of the author loganquinn
      Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

      On another note, for some people that isn't an experience at all. I think it's pie. Because I'm good at it.
      I am not trying to say cold calling doesn't work. It does. Guys like you sure know how to do it well and make boatloads of cash. Good for you.

      All I'm saying is, most average people getting involved in this business with no experience DO NOT have the balls to get out there and cold call. And who blames them? It requires thick skin, just like you said.

      So does that mean most people should not get involved in SEO Consulting?

      Absolutely not. There are far easier ways to get work WITHOUT cold calling that anybody can do.

      [QUOTE=Amir Luis;3302224]This probably won't happen because there is a sales pitch coming. I can feel it.[QUOTE]

      I'm sorry to be rude, but I really don't like you. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you seem to be accusing me of having some kind of hidden intention. This is simply not true.

      Like I already said, I am absolutely promoting my program Instant Local SEO. The "sales pitch" is on my home page, and I include a link to my site in my signature. It works. I have had many, many Warriors contact me since I began posting. I am not trying to hide the fact. In fact quite the opposite.

      And sorry to disappoint, but I am now going to reveal a simple method I use to get work WITHOUT cold calling. Is this the only way to do it? No, but it's what most people will be able to do quite easily.

      People can do this with or without joining my program.

      First, you MUST have a track record. There is simply no other way around it. Until you can prove to people you know how to get top, sustainable ranks, selling SEO services could be quite difficult for you.

      (Luckily for any of you new people getting involved in this industry, we can build that track record FOR YOU. Is there an upfront cost involved? Yes. But - if you already have a track record you can get started with zero investment.)

      Anyway, let's say you managed to get ranked Number 1 on Google for "plumber Auckland" (Auckland is a city in New Zealand).

      As long as you can prove you own and control the site, or you did the work to get the site ranked, no one is going to argue with you that you know what you're doing.

      The first thing you need to do is go through the Page 1 Google Plus Box listings for that keyword to see how many Plumbers in Auckland AREN'T on Page 1. These are the businesses you want to target.

      Since there are usually only 6-10 listings on Page 1 of the GPB, you should have no shortage of potential clients.

      Then, go to the Plumbers' websites one by one (the ones that aren't on Page 1), and scroll to the bottom until you see "web design by [web design company]" or "web design" or "powered by" or whatever. Basically it's a link to the company that designed the website.

      Now, not all websites have this link, in which case your only option is to call the business, tell them you like their website and would like to know who designed it.

      Once you know who the designer is, you now have some very valuable information.

      Why?

      Because the plumbing company - your potential client - PAID THEM to design a website. So they're obviously interested in getting traffic - otherwise why bother?

      Plus, you now have a potential "Joint Venture" partner who already knows your potential client who can endorse you. The plumber is far more likely to be interested in your services if they come recommended by their website designer than if you had simply approached them out of the blue.

      You can do a profit / revenue share deal with the website designer if you actually make a sale. Or you can simply pay them a flat fee.

      All parties involved win in this scenario.

      The web designer wins because he makes money simply by making a recommendation.

      Your client wins by getting their site on Page 1 of Google for their keywords.

      And you win by selling your services WITHOUT cold calling. In fact, if you do this right, there is very little effort involved at all. I very rarely even speak to the designers (although I like to; they're generally cool people). But in most cases I just do everything over email.

      Now, some of you might be thinking: Well, it all sounds great, but you're still making a "cold call" to the web designer.

      Kind of true, but not really.

      I simply email them, tell them what I do and my show them my results to prove I know what I'm doing, and would they be interested in promoting me to their client for a cut of the action?

      (Can you guess how many "Nos" I get?)

      -Logan
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      • Profile picture of the author loganquinn
        Hey Amir Luis,

        Since I can't reply to PM's yet, I'll reply here.

        Originally Posted by Amir Luis

        I have enough friends.
        Good for you!

        Originally Posted by Amir Luis

        Something about the way you came in just came across wrong to me. But whatever.
        What was the "something"? I'm honestly curious! I'm not out to make anyone feel suspicious of me (I wouldn't last long in the business if I did!)

        Originally Posted by Amir Luis

        I am sure you have a lot to offer.
        I sure do! Are you doing any Local SEO consulting? If so, what kind of results are you getting and how quickly, and have they proven to be sustainable?

        We offer a link building service (we can also help with keyword research and on page optimization if needed) - a one time only, flat fee of $500 per keyword. We guarantee these links will get your clients on Page 1 and keep them there. I trust my freelancers; they've never let me down!

        Not sure if this type of service would interest you? But most of our customers use us because they're too lazy to do the link building themselves! (Who cares about $500 if you're charging $1000 a keyword right?)

        Originally Posted by Amir Luis

        "why don't we walk down there and get them all?"
        Absolutely! I'd love to!

        Originally Posted by Amir Luis

        But coming in like gangbusters and pointing at your signature?
        Come on man, give me a break. I'm on here to help people. If they don't make money neither do I.

        I've had lots and lots of inquiries since I started posting - why shoot me down if what I do what works? All the people I help can succeed (ACTUALLY succeed). That's all I'm about. Helping people make money with less effort, as long as I can make money too. Nothing more and nothing less.

        -Logan
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        www.loganquinn.com (Ignore The Hype)
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    I'm not a moderator, but I started this thread. Please respect what I was trying to do.

    Thank you for posting a decent strategy, I really mean that and chose to believe you have every good intention in the world. I respect your right to respond to people accusing you of of having ulterior motives, but take it elsewhere.

    For that matter anyone wanting to post how someone is just setting up for a pitch, take that elsewhere too. If it sounds that way to you it probably sounds that way to other people, you don't need to tell them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
      Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

      I'm not a moderator, but I started this thread. Please respect what I was trying to do.

      Thank you for posting a decent strategy, I really mean that and chose to believe you have every good intention in the world. I respect your right to respond to people accusing you of of having ulterior motives, but take it elsewhere.

      For that matter anyone wanting to post how someone is just setting up for a pitch, take that elsewhere too. If it sounds that way to you it probably sounds that way to other people, you don't need to tell them.
      You have a good point Will...

      I respect your position.

      That is why I tried to express my opinions in private. I will leave it alone. Maturity, level of class, and knowledge all display themselves in what we do. Not what we say.

      It was less than becoming for me to display publicly what I think and feel.

      For that I offer my most humble apology to the forum.

      The amount of thanks per post ratio really tells me who knows what they are doing on this forum.

      Will... You have come here to add value and I meant no disrespect to you or your thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author loganquinn
      Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

      I respect your right to respond to people accusing you of of having ulterior motives, but take it elsewhere.
      Noted. And I do apologize.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    No body needs to apologize, that just had the potential to become a flame war.

    Back to the point: Any of you Offliners have a question you've always wanted to ask someone you might make a pitch to?
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    Questions I got in a PM I thought people might be interested in:

    How many Appointments did you make from 100 Cold Calls?
    6.5

    How many of those Appointments turned into new clients?
    4.25
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by WillDL View Post

      Questions I got in a PM I thought people might be interested in:

      How many Appointments did you make from 100 Cold Calls?
      6.5

      How many of those Appointments turned into new clients?
      4.25
      Nice ratios! Bravo!
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  • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
    That really is good conversion....

    I am impressed... I still don't get that good of a conversion rate....

    Even if you were to get 25% of your conversions... 1 client out of 100 calls.... TOTALLY worth making the calls isn't it.

    A lot of people don't realize that it takes a little experience and finesse to be able to close a deal on the phone. Then they give up before putting in the numbers necessarry to make it happen.

    Will you know it takes at least 100 calls to make it happen.

    A lot of new guys make 40 calls then give up.

    That is not even really a drop in the bucket. That's only an hour of dialing....

    Unfortunately they come running saying cold calling doesn't work, even though there are several of us on this forum that keep a steady stream of new clients based on cold calls....

    hmmmm....

    Nice numbers though man... very nice......
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    Yeah, there are days when I want to pick of the phone and go back to cold calling.

    I think there was a nice double trick to the high close ratio. First, I didn't ask more in the Cold Call than my credibility warranted. Getting a sale, or even a call back requires a pretty good amount of oomph, especially from a thirty second message.

    Convincing someone to look up a keyword phrase on Google was an order of magnitude less difficult because it was so much less commitment from the prospect. You did that because you're curious, not because I had credibility.

    The prospect could do it at their leisure, it took roughly the same amount of energy as dialing a phone number, and most importantly they didn't have to talk to a sales person. They didn't like what they saw they could leave the site. No pressure.

    If they did like what they saw, they were calling me to schedule a consultation. Suddenly, it was inbound marketing, which is a whole other ball game. They knew they were interested, I knew they were interested. The rest was just making the details work.

    Not that I considered all this when I first started this method. I was just looking for a way to convert all the messages I was leaving into sales. Which it did, to the the point where I got really flustered and annoyed at prospects when they didn't put me to voice mail. My close ratio plummeted when I actually had to sell on the phone. I got a full time, in house job before I perfected an actual phone pitch.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    I thought about making a new thread for this, but that seemed silly.

    Another place I think this forum occasionally leads beginning marketers down is the answers they often get when asking “what should I charge for my services.”

    I’m as guilty of it as anyone since I’ll give a glib gross profit divided by ten answer. Others subscribe to my theory, but have a different number.

    The other answer they get is some variation of “Think about the amount of time the service will take you. Now decide what you want to make per hour. Charge the number that makes that work.”

    Both answers are completely true.

    Both are also completely useless BS, that don’t help our fledgling friend along at all. I don’t claim to be a financial expert, or a genius, but here is how I set prices when I was freelance.

    As with anything, the first step is research. I’m a big believer in one niche at a time. Each market is unique enough that a package that makes sense to a dentist won’t make sense to a mechanic. But inside the niche you can expect real, useful industry averages to act as your guide.

    My first question was “What is my competition charging?” If there was successful competition in the niche, my research was a lot easier. I just found out what they are charging, and their average customer life. If they kept there clients for years, then the market would bear their price. If they had a really high turn over rate, then their price was higher than the market would bear and they had a great sales system in place.

    My next question was “What is the average profit margin in my niche?” I always thought knowing this was essential, and now that I run the numbers from the other side, I know it is.

    I will tell you right now that I have our acceptable Cost per Customer on a sticky attached to the corner of my monitor. I don’t need the sticky anymore. I’ve had it memorized since about thirty minutes after I signed the confidentiality clause in my employment contract.

    I use our average fee per client and profit margin to create that number. Most decision makers have a similar formula.

    You absolutely need to know the profit margin when creating a package for a niche. Let’s say you want to create a marketing package for restaurants. You need to know that the average profit margin for a well run restaurant is 5%.

    Do you know what that means?

    If you come in with a $100.00 package, it needs to bring in $2,000.00 for the restaurant owner to break even. And restaurant owners know that.

    Doable? Easily, but you need to understand where the decision maker is coming from.

    The objection I foresee getting is that businesses already have an advertising budget factored into their cost, so I am not making an intellectually honest demand for gross return on a campaign.

    It’s a fair objection, except for one thing. The vast majority of businesses have already spent their advertising budget. It is either gone, or ear marked for a proven campaign. Which means, unless you are lucky enough to hit them when they are re-evaluating their advertising strategies, you, or the decision maker has to convince the owner to go out of pocket for the campaign. It will exist outside of whatever % of gross they have already accounted for advertising expenses until the next financial cycle. At that point they can reevaluate their advertising spending, and you can upsell if you have done a good job.

    So the restaurant owner needs to be convinced it will bring in more than 20 times its expense or he isn’t going to bite. Which means the next question has to be. “What return can the business owner expect from my service?”

    The next question I would ask was “What is my time worth?” This was answered by a pretty straight forward evaluation of my needs. I had a number I wanted to make per week, so obviously the next question was “How much time will it take me to do a great job offering the service?” I would always round up and over estimate, just to be safe.

    You notice I asked myself questions that threw out both answers we all rattle off to newbies.

    I had one last question to ask myself “Knowing the answers to all these questions, is there a price that makes sense for me and my prospective customers?” If the answer was yes, I was golden. If no, I’d reevaluate my offering or what niche I was offering it to. I wasn’t going to waste time earning less than I wanted, and I wasn’t going to waste time selling a service the market couldn’t bear.
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