Get yourself a bigger pair... How I turned a $1k client into $18,000 and super-charged my confidence

by urmilp
72 replies
Calling all warriors who are providing services to local business and especially those who are just about to start... you need to read this!!!

Get yourself a bigger pair.... How I turned a $1000 web design client I met on a flight to Vegas into an $18,000 web marketing client and super-charged my confidence!

Hi warriors, I'm Urmil and I've been providing services to local businesses on and off ever since I dropped out of University back in 2000. Back then the internet was fairly new, well to me anyway and I had no ideas that one day i'd be making more money in a month than most of my fellow students would earn in a year after they graduated.

Don't get me wrong, education is important, and i've spent many a late night learning and applying internet marketing strategies over the past decade.

WHY I'M WRITING THIS CRAZY LENGTH POST!!!
I wanted to write this post to give back to you great warriors in the offline consulting market and inspire any newbies coming into this market by sharing a REAL STORY of one of my clients who paid me $1k to design a basic html website (yeah i know, who does that anymore... its all wordpress ...

AND how I built my credibility and confidence to then go back and charge him another $18,000 to develop a web marketing strategy for his business.

For the sake of this post, I'm going to call this client Paul. Paul and I, we'd never met but we were fortunate enough to be 2 of the top 40 consultants of a MLM company (yeah ok, we all do MLM at some point don't we...lol) and we were being sent to Vegas for a week of fun and training (more fun than training).

On the flight I'm sitting next to Paul and he's telling me all about his offline business and how times were tough. I asked him if he had a website and he didn't. In fact, he said it was one of the things he'd never seen the benefit of and really didn't see how it could work for his business. (how many of you warriors have heard that one before from clients?)

It was an eleven hour flight and I had a decision to make, either listen to Paul telling me how he's throwing all this money at yellowpages advertising and local newspaper ads and how its not working for him, or tell him how a website could help him. I chose the latter because well I just love talking about internet marketing

I didn't try to sell him a website though, since he didn't see the value in having one, instead I just spent some time trying to help him understand how, by having a presence online, he could attract visitors and invite them to learn more about his business and potentially generate some new customers.

LESSON NUMBER 1: Don't try to sell something to someone if they can't see the value in it. Its an upward struggle, frustrating as hell and frankly there's enough people who can see the value, go after them!

Anyway, after the trip I'm back in the UK. I decided to give Paul a follow up call and now I was keen to sell him on my (amateurish) website design service (I'd spent way too much in Vegas and needed to pay off some credit cards). Its funny how having some debts to pay can be a great motivator to take action.

I arranged to go and see him and although I had no idea what I was going to sell him, in fact I didn't even have a website of my own nor was I any good at designing them.

What i did have was a couple of results and case studies of small projects i'd done for some other clients (not the best, but sometime I could show him).

I also knew that Paul didn't have a website, so the least I could do for him is to get his business online with a website.

LESSON NUMBER 2: ALWAYS FOLLOW UP WITH PROSPECTS - this lesson alone can make you a fortune. When I started out, I felt uncomfortable to keep following up with clients, it felt like I was pestering them (and made me seem desparate). I later realised that I had a great service to offer and I guess I should let them tell me if they want me to stop contacting them. If I don't follow up myself then i'll never get their business!

It was a short meeting with Paul, nothing special and nothing technical. He agrees for me to design him a website for his business (html based cause I didn't know how to do wordpress back then) and we agree on $1000 after much negotiating from Paul ( I wanted $1500, he wanted to pay $500 ).

He writes me out a cheque there and then for the full amount. I was quite shocked at this because normally most of my clients back then wanted to either pay a small deposit and the balance when I'd finished their site or pay it all when i'd finished their site.

I didn't complain, I took his cheque and got to work. In fact, since that day I now make sure that everyone pays upfront.

LESSON NUMBER 3: Get the money upfront to help your cashflow and avoid non-payment issues - your services are worth it!

I'm not a graphic designer, nor do i enjoy html, so designing websites was probably the worst business I could have been in, but I want to set the record straight, providing services to offline businesses has NEVER failed to make me money whenever I have needed it.

I later learned you don't need to know anything about web design, html or graphic design, especially with amazing resources and talented people like in the warriors for hire section!

Back to Paul's website, I'd designed him a html based website (after reading many html tutorials online), registered a domain, got him some web hosting and within a few weeks, Paul had his business online (with probably the worst looking site on the planet).

LESSON NUMBER 4: Anyone Can Provide These Services To Local Business, You Just Need To Spend A Little Time Researching How To Do It or Get someone else to do it for you.

I searched the net for Paul's niche and found some topics about it and wrote a few articles, submitted to some article directories , I carried out a bit of on-page optimisation (no idea what that was back then, but everyone seemed to be talking about it, so I googled it, read up and then applied it to Paul's site).

About 1 month after i'd finished the site, i get a call from Paul, telling me how he's had so many compliments about the website and he'd had about 15 new customers. RESULT!!! (for him...)

LESSON NUMBER 5: WHAT MAY SEEM LIKE A BASIC UGLY WEBSITE TO YOU, IS A PIECE OF ART TO SOMEONE ELSE

I'd not discussed with Paul about a monthly recurring fee after building his website, and to be honest I was a bit nervous about how to bring that up and justify what I was charging him for, so I just left it. (what a wimp i was back then.. anyone else ever had the same problem?)

NOW FOR THE EXCITING PART- $18k - here I come...

$1000 a website project isn't that exciting, I could probably put money down that if you're reading this post, you could probably earn $1000 to design basic websites for local businesses(even if you're brand new), but what is exciting is going back to that same client and getting a further $18000 out of him...

I'm pretty sure if I had offered Paul a $18k marketing solution at the beginning, when he didn't really know me, had no reason to trust me, and I hadn't proved myself by creating a website that brought in some new business, he would have turned me down there and then and I would have lost lots of future revenue from him.

Anyway I didn't have the confidence to ask him for $18k anyway would you???

A little time goes by, several clients and some results later (my confidence was slowly growing), I decide to check up on Paul's site. I found that he was ranking on page 1 of google for 40 of his high traffic keywords through all the work I'd done (wow, i thought to myself, I actually know my sh*T!!!) I decided to give him a call and see how business was, (and to gloat naturally .

We're on the phone and Paul's telling me how 75% of his new business is coming from the website i'd designed for him and it was generating 1000s in profit each week. (a website i'd done for $1000). He'd also stopped spending $10,000 a year with yellowpages because my site was generating him so much business.

I physically felt sick, I'd worked my butt off and made a mere $1000 and this guys site was making him 1000s a week in extra profit and saving $10,000 in yellow page advertising because of me. Don't get me wrong, I was really happy for Paul but I finally realised how little I valued my own abilities.

I really had undercharged him and probably every other client I was working with at the time. I spent a fortune on my education and was delivering results for my clients for peanuts. IT WAS ALL MY OWN DOING!

LESSON NUMBER 6: YOUR TIME and SKILLS ARE ONLY WORTH WHAT YOU DECIDE they're WORTH and nothing less.

It was coming up to Christmas and I was short on money and time. Taking on too many low price time intensive web design clients will do that to you.

I really wanted to charge more and work less but I still had a self confidence problem (not sure why, but i'm sure everyone has it at some level).

Anyway, I attended Dan Kennedy's Info Summit in the US that year and spent close to $10k on educational info product (i'm a sucker for buying everything and piling it on the bookcase to gather dust).

I was on a mission to make that money back asap. I also wanted to get more clients that were willing to pay me more money. I had an idea, something I'd learnt at the Dan Kennedy event. It was that you need to position yourself as an expert and running a local seminar will do that for you!

SO THAT WAS DECIDED I WAS PUTTING ON A LOCAL SEMINAR...

I called up Paul and said I was thinking of putting on a small seminar for local business owners and would he be interested in coming (I hadn't even thought about how much to charge or what i'd cover), but i said it'd be about $800 for a 3 day event (first number that popped into my head), that'd cover the cost of the room and meals.

He was in, and within 30 minutes he'd invited a business associate as well.
Within 24 hours, i'd called several of my existing web design clients and had 14 confirmed attendees at $800 each to attend a 3 day seminar about internet marketing for local businesses.

LESSON NUMBER 7: PROVIDING SERVICES TO LOCAL BUSINESS INCLUDES PROVIDING EDUCATION AND INFORMATION (e.g. a seminar or workshop)

I had one of the attendees ask if he could email some of his contacts and within a few days I had another 8 more people attending my event. That's a total of 22 fully paid attendees ($17,600) . I couldn't believe it!!!

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM: I'd never run a seminar before, I wasn't the most confident speaker and most of the attendees were successful business people. I kept thinking to myself what if they don't find my information valuable, what if they want their money back. (i'm sure everyone has those fears...or maybe not, i know i did)

Lets jump forward, I put the seminar together with the help of a good friend (I needed the push) , I made sure I filmed the entire thing and got testimonials from everyone that attended.

LESSON NUMBER 8: VIDEO TESTIMONIALS FROM HAPPY CLIENTS WORK LIKE CRAZY WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO GET NEW CLIENTS

MY EXPERT STATUS WAS ESTABLISHED!!!

By the end of the seminar these successful business owners now saw me as the expert in my niche. And all I'd done was host the event, share my ideas and strategies together with my own opinions (stuff I knew, had learnt, tried and tested) and provide the information in a structured and easy to understand way). I did also show several real life case studies and examples of results I'd achieved, that probably helped as well.

BUT anyone can do this, I truly believe that... YES that means YOU too!

My confidence was through the roof and i think I needed to run this event and have these business owners pat me on the back to fully gain confidence in myself (i'm sure most of you guys are probably extremely confident but back when i did this event I wasn't)

LESSON NUMBER 9: YOU OFTEN NEED A PAT ON THE BACK FROM RESPECTED PEERS TO REALISE HOW GOOD YOU ARE! So surround yourself with some back patting peers!

After the event, I decided to follow up with Paul and some of the other attendees. I asked Paul about his thoughts of the event and whether anything i'd covered would help him in his business and whether he was planning on implementing any of it.

I'd shared all my secrets at the seminar, everything that I do for offline clients, even provided a 300 page manual and videos to watch, but Paul still wanted me to implement the strategies for his business. I couldn't understand it. I had taught him everything but still he wanted me to do it.

So I put together a proposal for a one off web marketing package for him (this included a re-build of his website using wordpress, video marketing, article marketing, listbuilding and a newsletter). I guess I must have been buzzing from the seminar or delusion (who knows...) but I priced the proposal at $18,000 for 3 months work.

Anyway he went for it. No questions asked, no negotiating or bartering. I couldn't believe it. He couldn't afford all $18k upfront, but we worked out $7500 upfront, and the remainder over the next 3 months. I was happy with that.

HOLY CR4P, thats the biggest value client i'd got from web marketing back then and he was one of my existing clients that paid a measely $1000 to design an entire website.

I was so intrigued about why Paul had agreed to pay me $18k to do what i'd taught him how to do at the seminar and also why he didn't try to knock down the price when a while ago he was trying to negotiate a better deal than $1000 to build his first business website.


His answer was simple and an eye-opener:
  1. The first site I'd designed had worked and produced some results for him. (my first transaction with him produced results)
  2. By inviting him to spend 3 days at my seminar, where I explained the benefits of internet marketing, I clearly demonstrated I knew what I was talking about and helped him see the benefits to his business in a focused environment. (built my credibility in a closed environment)
  3. Also he could see the calibre of other business owners in the room and they were all impressed with the content at the event (social proof)
  4. $18,000 was the price I'd asked for to do the work (i'd grown a bigger pair of b&$$s and had the confidence to ask for what I felt my time was worth)
That one seminar generated almost a 6-figure income that year from follow on and referred client work. Just one seminar!!!

Ever since that first seminar, i've used this following method as one of the strategies to consistently generate new clients who happily pay me in excess of $6000 for a web marketing solution.

Summary of one of the strategies I use to get my high paying clients:
  1. Offer a foot in the door low price service (usually web design or re-design - something that can be outsourced)
  2. Drive some traffic to the website for FREE (using basic strategies, article marketing, local directories, etc - again outsource it)
  3. Invite client to a local seminar (you run the event and become the expert)
  4. Follow up with a high price consulting and web marketing solution.
This system continues to work for me and I'm confident it can work for anyone who's prepared to try it.

A lack of confidence seems to be the biggest killer of dreams for most who venture into the offline consulting world. I hope it isn't for you. I hope my story has helped you see that anyone can make money in the offline world, if only you'd try it.

The biggest factor that helped me jump from charging $1000 to $18000 was a massive increase in my confidence. Of course, learning more about internet marketing, offering a more comprehensive solution and having some case studies also helped.

The point is if I hadn't offered a proposal to Paul at $18,000 to do his web marketing, someone else would have, probably someone like you from the warrior forum! So why not make sure you are the one who does whatever you have to build your confidence, because trust me there are hundreds of Paul's out there waiting ready to write you a cheque!

This is my story of how I gained my confidence and started making great money providing services to local businesses and online.

I'd love to hear about your experiences and how you overcame your lack of confidence (if you had one..) when you first started.

And more importantly what influenced you the most to start charging clients more money and when did you realise that you had a great service to offer local business?

Good luck in your busines and make sure you take action and charge what you're worth!

#confidence #how to make money offline #local business services #offline expert #offline marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Hey Urmil...

    I just want to chip and say this is an excellent post - I think the whole community should thank you for this.

    It's great to see information here that the majority can use - this isn't some super niche or vaguely related to offline type of thing.

    EVERYONE can use this.

    I've also gotta say Urmil is a great guy - with a real passion for marketing - as well as being pretty darn ethical and fair minded.

    I know he was anxious about posting this - as he didn't know if this would help people. I KNOW it can, and it would be kinda cool if we could all drop him some thanks for this contribution.

    PS - I'm gonna send you a photo of the Lexus I mentioned...
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  • Profile picture of the author urmilp
    Hi Steve,

    thanks for your kind words... Glad you liked the post..
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Awesome post Urmil, great content and advice!

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Hey Dexx,

      Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate it.

      You know in the post where I talk about how I put on a local business seminar and that having those respected peers pat me on the back really sky-rocketed my confidence....

      Well you can get that pat on the back everywhere, even here on the forum (like with your comment - thanks again for that!).

      Its so easy to build your confidence, you just have to put yourself out there and surround yourself with the right people who empower you to succeed (sometimes thats not your family, but strangers on a forum). Everyones different. You get my point!

      Anyway, here's something I didn't put in the post, but you might find it helpful. It was the last day of the seminar and a couple of people in the group were asking about the upsell. You know my follow on program..

      HOLY CR$P... i didn't have a follow on program, I'd just done my first event, was hadn't planned that far ahead.

      Anyway on the lunch break, I put together a crazy webinar based follow on coaching program by surveying what the group needed help with and had a 74% take up rate.

      An extra $14k. By simply asking the group how I could help and then providing it for them!

      There are SO MANY people out there who want to pay you, me (us warriors) to help them market their businesses better, and by simply getting out there you can make a fortune and sleep well at night knowing you've really helped a local business.

      Hope that was useful to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author wenotice
        Originally Posted by urmilp View Post

        Anyway, here's something I didn't put in the post, but you might find it helpful. It was the last day of the seminar and a couple of people in the group were asking about the upsell. You know my follow on program..

        HOLY CR... i didn't have a follow on program, I'd just done my first event, was hadn't planned that far ahead.

        Anyway on the lunch break, I put together a crazy webinar based follow on coaching program by surveying what the group needed help with and had a 74% take up rate.

        An extra $14k. By simply asking the group how I could help and then providing it for them!

        There are SO MANY people out there who want to pay you, me (us warriors) to help them market their businesses better, and by simply getting out there you can make a fortune and sleep well at night knowing you've really helped a local business.

        Hope that was useful to you.
        Your really provided rock solid high level blueprint on how to get your online expertise into the brick and mortar world. Many businesses are underserved by the flood of online technology. But they do not want to take on the online monster, many times its just not in the cards for offline business people.

        So this post has served to be a catalyst for me to take a good hard look at the offline landscape and start pounding the pavement to get that business.

        Thanks for writing this post and giving back. I can't appreciate this swift kick enough. The information was concise and I appreciate you coming back to add the end part about the upsell, which is just as important. Please keep succeeding and encouraging others.
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        • Profile picture of the author urmilp
          Originally Posted by wenotice View Post

          Your really provided rock solid high level blueprint on how to get your online expertise into the brick and mortar world. Many businesses are underserved by the flood of online technology. But they do not want to take on the online monster, many times its just not in the cards for offline business people.

          So this post has served to be a catalyst for me to take a good hard look at the offline landscape and start pounding the pavement to get that business.

          Thanks for writing this post and giving back. I can't appreciate this swift kick enough. The information was concise and I appreciate you coming back to add the end part about the upsell, which is just as important. Please keep succeeding and encouraging others.

          Hey Wenotice,

          Thanks for your kind words.

          Its great to hear that you are going to really give offline consulting a try. It has truly been an incredible journey for me and a very lucrative one!

          I am sure it will be for you also!

          I don't think I ever mentioned why I love offline consulting so much in my original thread. The truth is because its a business model that let me learn while I was earning.

          I'd heard about CPA, affiliate marketing, blogging, and all the other ways of making money online, but I knew back when I started I had no money and no knowledge of how to make any of them work.

          Focusing on learning and providing services to local business owners allowed me to learn almost every area of internet marketing, from list building, lead generation, running webinars, creating ebooks, affiliate marketing and CPA marketing to name a few.

          As i provided services to business owners I'd also spend time testing and trying different strategies and building affiliate websites for myself to try the strategies on before offering new services to local busines owners.

          So instead of earning no money while I learnt about internet marketing, I got paid for providing services as I developed my knowledge.

          I love offline consulting and trust me you will too!
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          • Profile picture of the author lucad2008
            what a great post Urmil

            it is really inspirational and really makes you want to take action right now.
            I really like the fact that you spent time first in developing a relationship with your first client and then provided even more value before asking for more money.

            I think this is the truth that all guru don't want you to know about offline consulting. This seems to me a business of building relationships as opposed to the guru suggestions of "go out and sell everybody onto a $1000 a month package".

            I think it really puts in perspective what is needed to succeed. In a way you have shown what the "internet marketing funnel for offline consulting" really is.

            I have decided to re-think about my online venture and retry offline. I always wanted to start this business but kind of felt a bit afraid of asking for a big paycheck before showing any result. I think I will try to emulate your strategy.

            Great posts, I really like hearing these stories, keep coming..
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            • Profile picture of the author urmilp
              Originally Posted by lucad2008 View Post

              what a great post Urmil

              it is really inspirational and really makes you want to take action right now.
              I really like the fact that you spent time first in developing a relationship with your first client and then provided even more value before asking for more money.

              I think this is the truth that all guru don't want you to know about offline consulting. This seems to me a business of building relationships as opposed to the guru suggestions of "go out and sell everybody onto a $1000 a month package".

              I think it really puts in perspective what is needed to succeed. In a way you have shown what the "internet marketing funnel for offline consulting" really is.

              I have decided to re-think about my online venture and retry offline. I always wanted to start this business but kind of felt a bit afraid of asking for a big paycheck before showing any result. I think I will try to emulate your strategy.

              Great posts, I really like hearing these stories, keep coming..

              Thanks lucad2008 for your comments,

              Whether you are building a purely online business (affiliate marketing or information marketing) or an offline consulting business, you will have to build relationships.

              Making money is really easy once you think of it like a value exchange. If you provide something of value to someone else that needs it, then they will happily pay you for it.

              AND remember what value means to one person may be different to another!

              In any case you will have to get prospects to know, like and most importantly trust you if you wish to engage in a value exchange transaction with them.

              I hope that helps.

              Good luck in your new consulting business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    My first confidence crises actually came doing telemarketing when I was in A Level. I learned an awful lot about low pressure sales then. Heck I was having to get people to do a 20 minute survey for free.

    It occurred to me then, that mindset on both sides of the fence is super important.

    i love how you talked about the benefit of an online presence, not a website - talk about addressing the need.... Way to go.
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      My first confidence crises actually came doing telemarketing when I was in A Level. I learned an awful lot about low pressure sales then. Heck I was having to get people to do a 20 minute survey for free.

      It occurred to me then, that mindset on both sides of the fence is super important.

      i love how you talked about the benefit of an online presence, not a website - talk about addressing the need.... Way to go.


      I've never really been any good at telemarketing myself, but I did have a go at door to door sales back in 1999. Wasn't any good at that either.

      I guess I'm living proof you don't have to be a great sales person to make money in the offline niche!

      I'm loving your point about making sure you have your mindset right and also making sure the person on the other side of the fence (your prospect etc..) has the right mindset as well.

      I mention this in my post (Lesson Number 1) where I talk about how there is no point trying to sell something to someone who doesn't see the value in what you're offering. Its just so damn frustrating trying to convince a business owner to have a website when he still believes that only way to reach his customers is by placing a small ad in the yellowpages. (each to their own!!!)

      Plenty more fish in the sea!

      Just touching on that last point Steve, I have always found it easier to offer services to local business by talking about how it will benefit them and NOT by boring them to death with my Big Dictionary of Internet Marketing Terms (you know you have one as well, every warrior has

      From my experience no offline business owner wants a website. What they want, is what a website can deliver them, new leads, new customers, more profits etc...

      I realised that if you confuse propects, they wont buy simply because its much less risky to say NO and not buy when they are confused than it is to BUY your services and have their fingers burnt because they didn't fully understand what you were selling them.

      Eventually I learned the hard way that if you speak to clients, especially in the offline market, many of the concepts that we warriors take for granted are relatively new and cutting edge for these brick and mortar business owners.

      So its so much easier and faster to get a client to take on your services if you stop talking about websites, seo, social bookmarking, RSS submissions, and focus on how these things can benefit their bottom line!

      I've got a great little story about this, might share it later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    I think a lot of people who put on seminars forget about the whole selling opportunity - yet it's a great way to get offline clients wouldn't you say and more money?
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      I think a lot of people who put on seminars forget about the whole selling opportunity - yet it's a great way to get offline clients wouldn't you say and more money?

      You are absolutely right.

      When I put on my first event, i didn't have anything ready to sell the business owners that attended.

      I asked the attendees what else they'd need in terms of help, training and support after the event to ensure they achieve results for their businesses and they told me. So over the lunch break I created a coaching program based on their feedback (just the structure, not the detailed content).

      At the end of the event, I offered the coaching program structure to the room and 74% of the room signed up. That was an extra $14k that i hadn't planned for or expecting. It was like it was Christmas Day!

      That taught me some great lessons:

      1) "You just cant plan everything", you have to just get out there and go with the flow!

      2) Alway make sure you have something to offer offline clients if they attend your seminar.

      There is nothing worse than not having something to offer when someone is ready to give you their money.

      Thats criminal!



      Talking about seminars Steve, I'll let you into a little secret. When I did that first seminar, I was so nervous I knew I was going to make a load of mistakes.

      So I started out by saying to everyone in the room "This is my first seminar, I'm extremely nervous as you can probably tell, but I'm going to be here until I get all this information across to you so you can see how it will help you business.."

      None of the business owners thought I was unprofessional for saying that, but it also made me feel so much more confident, that I naturally made less mistakes!
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
        Originally Posted by urmilp View Post

        You are absolutely right.

        When I put on my first event, i didn't have anything ready to sell the business owners that attended.

        I asked the attendees what else they'd need in terms of help, training and support after the event to ensure they achieve results for their businesses and they told me. So over the lunch break I created a coaching program based on their feedback (just the structure, not the detailed content).

        At the end of the event, I offered the coaching program structure to the room and 74% of the room signed up. That was an extra $14k that i hadn't planned for or expecting. It was like it was Christmas Day!

        That taught me some great lessons:

        1) "You just cant plan everything", you have to just get out there and go with the flow!

        2) Alway make sure you have something to offer offline clients if they attend your seminar.

        There is nothing worse than not having something to offer when someone is ready to give you their money.

        Thats criminal!



        Talking about seminars Steve, I'll let you into a little secret. When I did that first seminar, I was so nervous I knew I was going to make a load of mistakes.

        So I started out by saying to everyone in the room "This is my first seminar, I'm extremely nervous as you can probably tell, but I'm going to be here until I get all this information across to you so you can see how it will help you business.."

        None of the business owners thought I was unprofessional for saying that, but it also made me feel so much more confident, that I naturally made less mistakes!
        Honesty can help and disarm I guess!
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  • Profile picture of the author Drakuul
    Mega thanks for that inspirational post... better than a good book. Gonna print it out and read it again when I get home!
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  • Profile picture of the author strspeed
    My Empire will be strong
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelParsons
    Just what I needed. Thanks for this post. I have a better understanding of how to leverage my own skills and produce for those who need to know what I do, or want to pay to have it done for them

    We ARE in a 'service' economy, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by MichaelParsons View Post

      Just what I needed. Thanks for this post. I have a better understanding of how to leverage my own skills and produce for those who need to know what I do, or want to pay to have it done for them

      We ARE in a 'service' economy, right?
      Great to hear from your Michael,

      glad I could be of help.

      Its so important to realise that there are 2 distinctly different methods of making a living from local business owners:

      1. Teaching them and educating them on Online Marketing (in a seminar, webinar or even in a coaching group)
      2. Providing the actual services for them
      Either way can make you money,
      but providing both can definitely make you RICH!!



      I started by providing services and not seminars/training because I had no ideas of how to structure courses or information for those business owners that wanted it.

      I got some results for clients and as time went on I started to systemise the tasks that I was repeating over and over again for different clients (you know stuff like article submissions and social bookmarking).

      I then took those systemised processes and thats how I came up with my course material for my seminars.

      And another income stream was established.

      The great thing about producing information to educate local business owners was, they would pay to come learn it, then they'd pay for you to do it for them.

      Do you already do both?
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  • Profile picture of the author E-supreme
    Excellent post, really enjoyed reading it!
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Abdi Shakur
    Amazing post Urmil and it couldn't have come at a better time. you just cleared up a lot for me. I was debating with myself for days. whether to go for the quick buck like you did with the $1000 website or position myself as an expert. before i thought you had to go one road or the other. you have shown its possible to combine both methods with head spinning results.

    I really appreciated the post.
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Hopeful Warrior View Post

      Amazing post Urmil and it couldn't have come at a better time. you just cleared up a lot for me. I was debating with myself for days. whether to go for the quick buck like you did with the $1000 website or position myself as an expert. before i thought you had to go one road or the other. you have shown its possible to combine both methods with head spinning results.

      I really appreciated the post.

      Thanks for your comment Hopeful Warrior, Always good to hear from someone new getting into the offline niche.

      Like I said in my post its never failed to make me money whenever i've needed it. And I wish you ever success as well.

      I'm glad my post helped you find some clarity.

      Sometimes there just so much you can do for offline clients that all your time can easily be consumed learning the latest and greatest tactics and NOT actually implementing and offering it to local businesses.

      If you just get out there and start talking to some local business owners then you'll begin to gauge a better idea of what business owners in your area want and focus on a few services to begin with. You can always build the portfolio of services later.

      Also its easier to explain and sell a simple service to a local business like website re-design or blog installation or facebook fan page set up, than trying to go the whole hog with an $18k web marketing solution right off the bat. But saying that, if you've got the balls for it, try to sell it. If you offer it to enough targetted people, eventually one will say YES!

      Its also a good idea to check out your competition. I don't do this to see how much competition I have, I just do this to gauge the kind of marketing messages the local offline business owners have been getting from my competitiors, so I can make sure mine are more compelling and use language they are used to hearing in their niche.

      There plenty of business for everyone, just get started with clients even at a low amount, because as your produce results for the client, your relationship with them will strengthen and you'll become a trusted advisor when it comes to all things internet!
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  • Profile picture of the author tonydbaker
    I was doing offline marketing before people started calling it offline marketing. In fact... it's providing online marketing to offline marketers... but anyway.

    You are absolutely correct that people want to be taught first, and then they want to pay you. They want to know that they are making the right decision, and not simply being sold something. So they would rather know how, and then hire someone who knows how so that they can focus on what they love to do best.

    I do have a question though. How did you get the high sticker price of $800? Did you already have connections in a market that would pay that? I've seen people snicker at even $100 for conferences. In fact, in my local area, they expect everything to be for free. It's sad really.

    - Tony
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by tonydbaker View Post

      I was doing offline marketing before people started calling it offline marketing. In fact... it's providing online marketing to offline marketers... but anyway.

      You are absolutely correct that people want to be taught first, and then they want to pay you. They want to know that they are making the right decision, and not simply being sold something. So they would rather know how, and then hire someone who knows how so that they can focus on what they love to do best.

      I do have a question though. How did you get the high sticker price of $800? Did you already have connections in a market that would pay that? I've seen people snicker at even $100 for conferences. In fact, in my local area, they expect everything to be for free. It's sad really.

      - Tony

      Hi Tony,

      thanks for your comments, really appreciate you joining the thread.

      I really love teaching local business owners NOW, even more than actually providing the services for them. I never thought I would!!!

      So now i've got a team who takes care of implementing the strategies for my clients so I can focus on getting more of them and teaching them in a seminar/webinar environment and upselling them to big web marketing projects.


      ABOUT THE STICKER PRICE...
      When I did my first seminar, I really had no ideas about what was possible, what to charge and even what to deliver and i didn't know anyone in the business.

      Maybe that was the secret.. I have no negative beliefs of what local business owners would pay to attend a seminar.

      Basically, I decided on doing a 3 days event (why you may ask? the truthful answer, i don't know). I had lots of information and ideas about marketing locally using the internet that I wanted to share and after looking at everything I wanted to include I thought i'd need 3 days to teach it all.

      My attitude is if you're going to deliver, you might as well over-deliver...

      So once i'd decided it was going to be a 3 day, I started to contact a few business owners to gauge what they'd pay and whether they'd be interested in attending an event.

      14 of the 22 attendees that paid to attend, i'd already done some type of basic web design work for (simple foot in the door type work, website re-design at a very low price, website evaluation etc..) the other 8 were from a email one of the attendees sent out to his list. None of them had a problem with the $800 price and none of them had met me before.

      I booked a really posh hotel and that cost $240 per day per attendee (including 3 course meal each day).

      I still made a huge profit after paying this over-priced hotel, and when you add the upsells, the follow on done-for-you work, that first event almost hit 6-figures for me...NOT BAD FOR A UNIVERSITY DROP-OUT


      LOCAL BUSINESS OWNERS WANT IT ALL FOR FREE...
      I know exactly what you mean. I've had occasions, when i've marketed in a new town where I found it difficult to sell seminar tickets to local business owners at $800. In these cases, i would try to get them on a webinar first and then upsell to a live 3 day event with a BONUS.

      The type of BONUS that I have found really work well are "offering a service that will benefit their online presence" e.g. a website re-design or a facebook fanpage set, backlinking solution etc...

      This way they feel they're attending the event, but also getting some services that can help their online marketing.


      I hope that help. Let me know how you get on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Abul-Hussain
    Great post Urmil!

    A non-techy question, your profile says you're from London yet you quote in $$$

    Did you do all of this work in London or in the US?

    Best wishes,

    Abul
    Signature
    Author | Speaker | Digital Marketing Coach

    I help ordinary people achieve extraordinary results online. Get in touch to see how we can help you build a 6 figure business.
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Abul-Hussain View Post

      Great post Urmil!

      A non-techy question, your profile says you're from London yet you quote in $$$

      Did you do all of this work in London or in the US?

      Best wishes,

      Abul

      Hi Abul,

      thanks so much for that question.

      I am from London and initially I was going to quote in UK £ (US $), but after I wrote this post it just looked ridiculous having both currencies everywhere through the post.

      I therefore decided the US $ seems to be the global currency, so simply converted my UK £ amounts charged to US $ using an approximately conversion rate of £1 = $1.5 to make it easy for everyone to understand.

      Appreciate your comment, thanks for joining in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Solem
    Wow Urmil - where's the button to vote for this as "post of the year!"??

    Congratulations on your successes and thank you for posting to show other Warriors how it's done. There are so many great lessons here I have a hard time singling out one because they're all so valuable, but the thing I connect with most is your point about getting a foot in the door and building from there.

    I think too many guys go for the BIG sale right off the bat, before prospects have a chance to know, like and trust them, but starting with a small sale like your initial website, or even offering some free educational material upfront has always been the best way to start a new business relationship in my book.

    Congrats again on your success Urmil - it's certainly well deserved - and thank you for sharing your story with us!

    All the best,

    Steve

    P.S. I think your thread title here would make a great book title!
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Steve Solem View Post

      Wow Urmil - where's the button to vote for this as "post of the year!"??

      Congratulations on your successes and thank you for posting to show other Warriors how it's done. There are so many great lessons here I have a hard time singling out one because they're all so valuable, but the thing I connect with most is your point about getting a foot in the door and building from there.

      I think too many guys go for the BIG sale right off the bat, before prospects have a chance to know, like and trust them, but starting with a small sale like your initial website, or even offering some free educational material upfront has always been the best way to start a new business relationship in my book.

      Congrats again on your success Urmil - it's certainly well deserved - and thank you for sharing your story with us!

      All the best,

      Steve

      P.S. I think your thread title here would make a great book title!

      Hey Steve,

      WOW indeed!

      Now thats a hell of a "pat on the back" from another Successful Warrior.

      Thanks so much for your comments, and loving the idea about getting a "post of the year" button. Somebody should definitely get that started. I'll hold you to that vote if the forum ever gets one

      I'm so glad you picked up on the point about getting a foot in the door and building from there.

      Its so important and makes life so much easier and less stressful, if you get your foot in through the door with a client and develop your relationship with them as you help build their business with your online marketing skills.


      I've seen too many info products claiming you can go out tomorrow and sign up a brand new client, someone they've never met before at large fees of $2k+ per month and provide them offline services and actually keep them long term.

      I'm sure its possible, well actually I'm NOT.
      I wouldn't commitment myself to an on-going service with a complete stranger, would you?.

      When's the last time you (as a successful business owner) agreed to pay a complete stranger you'd never met before, or didn't know anything about $2k per month for any services? (let's keep it clean shall we warriors )


      GREAT POINT STEVE!
      Its all about positioning yourself so your prospects gets to know you, like you and trust you and once you achieve that, the sale will naturally happen and usually you won't get any complaints about how much you charge either!

      There are so many ways to position yourself and get your foot through the door. Here's some of my favourites:

      1) Offer a website analysis
      2) Offer a new website build (low price)
      3) Offer a website re-build (low price)
      4) Offer an educational freebie report or ebook (try to make it customised to their niche though NOT just generic)
      5) Invitation to a 1 day seminar to meet you (free or low priced)
      6) Invitation to an eveing networking event put on by you (free or low priced)
      7) Running a webinar on the benefits of online marketing
      and lots of others...

      By spending a little bit of time building a relationship with prospects, it gives you a chance to educate them and that will help you charge higher fees as the relationship develops.


      Thanks again Steve for your comments.


      Urmil

      P.S. If I ever get round the finishing the book I'll definitely consider using the thread title, i'll send you a complimentary copy once its done.
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      • Profile picture of the author abbie kye
        Fantastic post Urmil, absolutely good quality information here for the newbies in offline marketing to digest. I have always toyed with the idea of getting into offline marketing but with such inspiration from your post I am sure I now have the confidence to venture out. Everything is really possible when you put your mind to it!
        Awesome and many thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author urmilp
          Originally Posted by abbie kye View Post

          Fantastic post Urmil, absolutely good quality information here for the newbies in offline marketing to digest. I have always toyed with the idea of getting into offline marketing but with such inspiration from your post I am sure I now have the confidence to venture out. Everything is really possible when you put your mind to it!
          Awesome and many thanks.

          Hey Abbie Kye thanks for joining in here,

          The main reason I shared my story in this post was to inspire those thinking of getting into the offline consulting market and provide that little push that we all need every now and again to get started!

          I've set up and run several different businesses over the last 10 years, many failed, some worked...

          Internet Marketing has alway made me money though!

          I can honestly say that the amazing lifestyle that I enjoy today and the abundance of wealth in my life all came about when I made the decision to stop chasing get rich quick schemes and instead focused on my passion for internet marketing and providing value to local business owners.

          The money just followed!


          Its the strangest thnig...When you geniunely go out to help local business owners succeed through your skills of internet marketing NOT only will you build a great income, but you'll also develop some amazing friendships with those you help.

          Some of my clients have become very close friends and as I help their businesses grow, they in return are happy to pay my fees and help mine to grow.

          I truly hope you'll start this journey as I know it can change your life like it changed mine several years ago.



          Remember, just get started, take action and most importantly think about what value you're bringing to those local business owners. Its the value you bring to bring that they are paying you for, not because they really want a website!
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        • Profile picture of the author Davista
          This is very clear, thanks all of you for putting in your time. It's been a long time since I read something so interesting and useful at the same time.

          Wish you all the best.

          I will try to put in more efforts to help others in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    I think the key is to start taking action - even if it less than perfect action - it still helps move you forward. This is PERFECT action though, and that's why I love this case study.

    How did you find Vegas btw?
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    • Profile picture of the author seomoney
      I think you could've and should've charged your client a lot more money. The biggest mistake new and seasoned people make in this industry is not charging enough money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
        Originally Posted by seomoney View Post

        I think you could've and should've charged your client a lot more money. The biggest mistake new and seasoned people make in this industry is not charging enough money.
        This is always the issue though, isn't it - how much to charge... Once they say yes, we always wonder if they would have paid more.

        It's the nature of the best.

        However, it is also totally true that the vast majority seriously undercharge for their stuff, no denying it.

        I guess though, it's just confidence that makes the difference? That and experience...
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        • Profile picture of the author urmilp
          Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

          This is always the issue though, isn't it - how much to charge... Once they say yes, we always wonder if they would have paid more.

          It's the nature of the best.

          However, it is also totally true that the vast majority seriously undercharge for their stuff, no denying it.

          I guess though, it's just confidence that makes the difference? That and experience...

          Excellent points about how much to charge clients.

          Of course we'd all like to charge clients as much as possible, but I prefer to charge an acceptable amount and build a life long relationship with the client.

          The amount a client is worth to me over his or her lifetime is a lot more than I could justify charging him upfront.

          I focus on building solid mutually beneficial relationships with clients where it's clear for them to see the value of my services. This leads to them referring other business owners to me.

          In my business the advantages of charging an acceptable amount far outweigh trying to charge a very big fee upfront.

          Of course everyone should run their businesses based on their lifestyle and financial preferences.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by seomoney View Post

        I think you could've and should've charged your client a lot more money. The biggest mistake new and seasoned people make in this industry is not charging enough money.
        This is the nature of offline consulting; you'll never know for sure if you've squeezed the maximum possible profit out of your client, but on the other hand the adage 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' also rings true - it's far better to have realized profit than to squeeze the client too much and lose out on a deal. Especially when you're still fairly new to offline consulting and don't have a ton of clients under your belt, it's far better to err on the side of caution.

        Paul
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          This is the nature of offline consulting; you'll never know for sure if you've squeezed the maximum possible profit out of your client, but on the other hand the adage 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' also rings true - it's far better to have realized profit than to squeeze the client too much and lose out on a deal. Especially when you're still fairly new to offline consulting and don't have a ton of clients under your belt, it's far better to err on the side of caution.

          Paul
          Realised profit is awful lot more important, you are right. Also, over the lifetime of a customer, you have plenty of chance to upsell new services. Perhaps it is better to acquire the customer and lose out on the front end, rather than squeeze the dry to start with. To be honest, I find something a bit distasteful about trying to squeeze every penny out of someone. You should charge what you are worth, but I don't think its a competition to try and see if you can bankrupt every client you get...
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      I think the key is to start taking action - even if it less than perfect action - it still helps move you forward. This is PERFECT action though, and that's why I love this case study.

      How did you find Vegas btw?

      Absolutely Steve,

      Action sometimes scares a lot of people off. I used to spend days and weeks learning Internet marketing strategies and tips thinking I needed to know everything before contacting clients.

      In reality it was just my way of procrastinating.

      I think Zig Ziglar said it best when he said "don't confuse activity with accomplishment"

      You need to take action and make sure the action is working towards the goal you want to achieve.



      And Steve, Vegas was amazing, stayed at Caesars Palace for a week, took limos everywhere, flew over the grand canyon, the place is amazing. It's somewhere everyone should visit once just to experience it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    i totally agree with you, I think it's really important to consider the lifetime value of the client. With offline clients, it's realistic to have them around for years and years...

    Then you have all the upsells and other opportunities...
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  • Profile picture of the author abundantliving
    This is a fabulous post full of great information that anyone can run with and turn into thousands of dollars over the next 30 days.

    In the past, Urmil has shared his story with me and - as you can see from this post - it's a very encouraging tale. But there's something that sets Urmil apart from most wannabe marketers - and it's this one thing that is responsible for turning Urmil from a college dropout into a successful marketing consultant...

    HE TOOK MASSIVE ACTION.

    Study Urmil's story and you'll see... he takes an "action first" approach with everything he does:

    - FIRST he got the client.
    - THEN he learned the skills he needed to deliver results.

    He didn't sit around thinking about what "might" be... he MADE it happen!

    He did this again with the seminar:

    - FIRST, he told the client he was holding a seminar
    - THEN he chose a price point and a venue.

    Urmil also took this "Action First" approach with the seminar upsell:

    - FIRST he offered the coaching program.
    - THEN he designed the program.

    You'll also notice that Urmil was willing to work hard. He didn't sit around daydreaming and waiting for profits to materialize out of thin air:

    - He researched HOW to build a website & then built it.
    - He researched HOW to get traffic to the website & then did it.
    - He put together a 300 page manual for seminar attendees.
    - During his lunch break, he designed the coaching upsell for seminar attendees.

    Urmil doesn't let any grass grow under his feet. He takes action... massive action... NOW (not later).

    And THAT is the difference between successful entrepreneurs and wishful wannabes. It's time for YOU to decide which group you want to be in... and then take action to make it happen.

    Great post Urmil. NOW go and turn this into a training product you can sell as a WSO.
    :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      This is a fabulous post full of great information that anyone can run with and turn into thousands of dollars over the next 30 days.

      In the past, Urmil has shared his story with me and - as you can see from this post - it's a very encouraging tale. But there's something that sets Urmil apart from most wannabe marketers - and it's this one thing that is responsible for turning Urmil from a college dropout into a successful marketing consultant...

      HE TOOK MASSIVE ACTION.

      Study Urmil's story and you'll see... he takes an "action first" approach with everything he does:

      - FIRST he got the client.
      - THEN he learned the skills he needed to deliver results.

      He didn't sit around thinking about what "might" be... he MADE it happen!

      He did this again with the seminar:

      - FIRST, he told the client he was holding a seminar
      - THEN he chose a price point and a venue.

      Urmil also took this "Action First" approach with the seminar upsell:

      - FIRST he offered the coaching program.
      - THEN he designed the program.

      You'll also notice that Urmil was willing to work hard. He didn't sit around daydreaming and waiting for profits to materialize out of thin air:

      - He researched HOW to build a website & then built it.
      - He researched HOW to get traffic to the website & then did it.
      - He put together a 300 page manual for seminar attendees.
      - During his lunch break, he designed the coaching upsell for seminar attendees.

      Urmil doesn't let any grass grow under his feet. He takes action... massive action... NOW (not later).

      And THAT is the difference between successful entrepreneurs and wishful wannabes. It's time for YOU to decide which group you want to be in... and then take action to make it happen.

      Great post Urmil. NOW go and turn this into a training product you can sell as a WSO.
      :-)

      Wow Holly, thats all I can say.

      Thank you so much for such a great comment.

      You are 150% right on the money! "TAKING ACTION" makes all the difference.

      I have to add just one distinction to your excellent comments.

      Back when I started many years ago, I was bombarded with hundreds of different ways of making money, and at first I went after everything.

      Naturally THAT DIDN'T WORK!

      But it was when I found something I enjoyed doing and something I was happy to learn more about (for me that was Internet Marketing) and focused my time and energy to become an expert (someone who could provide value to others), be it local business owners or even my coaching students, that when things really began to gain momentum and the money start rolling in.

      So to sum that up.

      1. Find something you enjoy doing, are happy to learn more about and make sures its a solution to a problem others are having (Remember when you start something new, NO-ONE's an expert and thats ok!)
      2. Take Action by doing the following 2 things:
      1. Learn more about your chosen topic and learn how to provide value to others and solve their problems
      2. Go out and start providing that value and solving problems (and the money will most definitely come in!)
      Thanks again for a joining in the thread Holly.

      I'll think about doing a WSO soon.

      How many people would be interested in my story as a WSO outlining all the actions that I actually took?

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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      This is a fabulous post full of great information that anyone can run with and turn into thousands of dollars over the next 30 days.

      In the past, Urmil has shared his story with me and - as you can see from this post - it's a very encouraging tale. But there's something that sets Urmil apart from most wannabe marketers - and it's this one thing that is responsible for turning Urmil from a college dropout into a successful marketing consultant...

      HE TOOK MASSIVE ACTION.

      Study Urmil's story and you'll see... he takes an "action first" approach with everything he does:

      - FIRST he got the client.
      - THEN he learned the skills he needed to deliver results.

      He didn't sit around thinking about what "might" be... he MADE it happen!

      He did this again with the seminar:

      - FIRST, he told the client he was holding a seminar
      - THEN he chose a price point and a venue.

      Urmil also took this "Action First" approach with the seminar upsell:

      - FIRST he offered the coaching program.
      - THEN he designed the program.

      You'll also notice that Urmil was willing to work hard. He didn't sit around daydreaming and waiting for profits to materialize out of thin air:

      - He researched HOW to build a website & then built it.
      - He researched HOW to get traffic to the website & then did it.
      - He put together a 300 page manual for seminar attendees.
      - During his lunch break, he designed the coaching upsell for seminar attendees.

      Urmil doesn't let any grass grow under his feet. He takes action... massive action... NOW (not later).

      And THAT is the difference between successful entrepreneurs and wishful wannabes. It's time for YOU to decide which group you want to be in... and then take action to make it happen.

      Great post Urmil. NOW go and turn this into a training product you can sell as a WSO.
      :-)
      Hey Holly,

      Fantastic post, and very true.

      I like how you distill Urmil's post into those actions that he took first - as you said 'action first' - a great way to phrase it!

      I think it was Dan Kennedy that said that rich people get paid BEFORE doing the work. I guess the first step on that road is to take action first and Urmil seems to have really got his process down.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post


      ...there's something that sets Urmil apart from most wannabe marketers - and it's this one thing that is responsible for turning Urmil from a college dropout into a successful marketing consultant...

      HE TOOK MASSIVE ACTION.

      Study Urmil's story and you'll see... he takes an "action first" approach with everything he does:

      - FIRST he got the client.
      - THEN he learned the skills he needed to deliver results.

      He didn't sit around thinking about what "might" be... he MADE it happen!

      :-)
      Indeed. Thats the one degree of seperation between existing as a wanna be or a real mccoy.

      Its funny how most people want to observe everything BUT the time proven principles of success which will actually bring them what they want, as well as bringing them all the learning they'll need along the way.

      Action. Immediate. Dont hesitate. Take it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Gehr
    Excellent stuff Urmil! Your efforts and time are appreciated as there are some great thoughts and tips in your post.

    Many thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author urmilp
    Originally Posted by jodib View Post

    Fabulous post Urmil.

    You are truly an inspiration and I know that from working with you!

    Your ideas and implementation of them speak volumes of who you are.

    The fact that you have also taken the time to write about your experience and your success speaks volumes.

    I am certain that a lot of people will get a lot out of this and gain the motivation to succeed.

    Best

    Jodi
    Hi Jodi,

    thanks for your kind words. Its a pleasure working with you too.

    Ever since I have known you, you've been an amazing example of an Action Taker. This is why you have become so successful.

    How did you overcome that initial confidence obstacle when you started in the offline consulting niche?

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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

      This is the nature of offline consulting; you'll never know for sure if you've squeezed the maximum possible profit out of your client, but on the other hand the adage 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' also rings true - it's far better to have realized profit than to squeeze the client too much and lose out on a deal. Especially when you're still fairly new to offline consulting and don't have a ton of clients under your belt, it's far better to err on the side of caution.

      Paul
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      Realised profit is awful lot more important, you are right. Also, over the lifetime of a customer, you have plenty of chance to upsell new services. Perhaps it is better to acquire the customer and lose out on the front end, rather than squeeze the dry to start with. To be honest, I find something a bit distasteful about trying to squeeze every penny out of someone. You should charge what you are worth, but I don't think its a competition to try and see if you can bankrupt every client you get...

      Great points by both paulie888 and Steve Peters Benn.

      Thanks for the comments.

      My general rule of thumb when it comes to taking on a new client and deciding how much to charge, I base it on how much value, custom and exposure I believe I can create for the business.

      If I truly feel I am not going to be able to help the client, then I wont even waste my time trying to get a smaller fee. I just wont take the client on.

      I'm a big believer in karma, and believe if you treat clients right they will have no hesitation to refer you to other friends and associates and buy other services from you in the future.

      When you start, you of course must take on customers to gain experience (and usually will charge accordingly), but once you gain that confidence its so important to remember that you are building a business, not just a hobby.

      This means, get customers, over-deliver and keep them happy and trust me you'll never be short of new customers calling you for your services.

      Good news spreads, but bad news spreads faster.

      Your reputation is so important in this business! So do everything you can to protect it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    I really need to drop the Peters. It's enough of a laughing point on my debit card for store clerks, let alone on here...
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    Urmil - Thank you so much for your story. I'm not alone in saying that it's obviously helpful on so many levels.

    There's not much more that I can say that hasn't already been said, but I'll say this: There are so many valuable lessons here (both those you've stated and those you've implied) that there really aren't any more excuses left for those that are looking to get started.

    This assumes of course, that they have valuable skills to offer. But if they do, your post should be the last nail on the coffin of excuses and fear. Again, they need to be able to provide the honest value, but if those skills are there, there should be no more waiting to grab success for themselves.

    It was a great pleasure reading every word (I usually skim in the interests of time...I have patience problems according to my family...oops) and I look forward to any material you put out in book form or other if you ever decide to delve into it more.

    Thanks again...
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      Urmil - Thank you so much for your story. I'm not alone in saying that it's obviously helpful on so many levels.

      There's not much more that I can say that hasn't already been said, but I'll say this: There are so many valuable lessons here (both those you've stated and those you've implied) that there really aren't any more excuses left for those that are looking to get started.

      This assumes of course, that they have valuable skills to offer. But if they do, your post should be the last nail on the coffin of excuses and fear. Again, they need to be able to provide the honest value, but if those skills are there, there should be no more waiting to grab success for themselves.

      It was a great pleasure reading every word (I usually skim in the interests of time...I have patience problems according to my family...oops) and I look forward to any material you put out in book form or other if you ever decide to delve into it more.

      Thanks again...

      Hi Nathan,

      thanks for your comments, I really appreciate it.

      I'll definitely make some time to put some additional content out on the forum if it will help others who are getting started or just need a bit of a kick start.

      It's all about karma!



      I completely agree with you Nathan, if you want to build a long lasting successful business you must have valuable skills to offer.

      However, I remember when I started internet marketing and offline consulting, I hadn't even heard of autoresponders, I didn't know what a lead generation page was and seo, well thats for hi-tech geeks right???

      I simply saw an opportunity to provide services to local business owners, and back then I didn't have much money and I'd decided a 9-5 job wasn't going to give me the life I wanted, so the only choise I had was to learn some new skills.


      ANYONE CAN DO WHAT I DID and learn internet marketing - its actually easier today with all the information available online!


      If you can switch on your computer, log into your facebook and send your best mate an email, you've got all the basic skills it takes to LEARN how to provide in-demand marketing services to local business owners and make a fortune.

      Not everyone will choose to become good at IM, well that just leaves more money for the rest of us doesn't it!
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  • Profile picture of the author abundantliving
    I know this is slightly off-topic, but I have to say the Karma thing is very important (or, as us Christians like to call it "The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you).

    Since I first began my business in 1998, I have always said that your reputation for integrity is your MOST valuable business asset.

    Over the past few years - thanks to a divorce and the recession - I experienced some financially tight times. It was very tempting to compromise my standards to pick up some quick cash... but I resisted the urge.

    This commitment to maintaining my standard of integrity came back to me a thousand-fold a few short weeks ago when my server crashed the very same day one of my products was offered as WSO of the Day.

    I sold over $10,000 worth of products during the 2 days my server was down... even though people knew they'd have to wait to receive their materials. The comments on the WSO thread (as well as numerous emails I received) all came down to the same thing...

    I've always provided excellent value in my products and always been honest with my students. Therefore, people were willing to trust me by paying first even though it would be a few days before they received their products.

    Honestly, the encouragement and positive feedback I received from my students (both here in the forum and via email and support tickets) turned what could have been a totally negative experience into one that was stressful but very positive.

    KARMA... when you act with integrity, it's an awfully nice thing to experience the rewards.
    :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter123
      Beautiful story Urmil .. actually not a story.. it's LIFE according to you and what you did.

      Thank you for sharing!!!

      I also would like to thank Holly for her comments on taking action.
      We ALL know that but some of us are at times held back by the insecurity or few "No's".

      Fortunately we have a place where we can get inspired and nourish ourselves before we go out again!

      Walter
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      I know this is slightly off-topic, but I have to say the Karma thing is very important (or, as us Christians like to call it "The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you).

      Since I first began my business in 1998, I have always said that your reputation for integrity is your MOST valuable business asset.

      Over the past few years - thanks to a divorce and the recession - I experienced some financially tight times. It was very tempting to compromise my standards to pick up some quick cash... but I resisted the urge.

      This commitment to maintaining my standard of integrity came back to me a thousand-fold a few short weeks ago when my server crashed the very same day one of my products was offered as WSO of the Day.

      I sold over $10,000 worth of products during the 2 days my server was down... even though people knew they'd have to wait to receive their materials. The comments on the WSO thread (as well as numerous emails I received) all came down to the same thing...

      I've always provided excellent value in my products and always been honest with my students. Therefore, people were willing to trust me by paying first even though it would be a few days before they received their products.

      Honestly, the encouragement and positive feedback I received from my students (both here in the forum and via email and support tickets) turned what could have been a totally negative experience into one that was stressful but very positive.

      KARMA... when you act with integrity, it's an awfully nice thing to experience the rewards.
      :-)
      Hey Holly! - That is shocking - I never knew this story - it's good that your market trusts you that much. I've had a fair few technical issues in the past and have been lucky enough to experience something similar.
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      • Profile picture of the author urmilp
        Originally Posted by Walter123 View Post

        Beautiful story Urmil .. actually not a story.. it's LIFE according to you and what you did.

        Thank you for sharing!!!

        I also would like to thank Holly for her comments on taking action.
        We ALL know that but some of us are at times held back by the insecurity or few "No's".

        Fortunately we have a place where we can get inspired and nourish ourselves before we go out again!

        Walter

        Hey Walter123,

        We all need that little inspiration every now and then.

        I'd been thinking about sharing my story for some time now, but just didn't think anyone would find it valuable.

        From all the great responses, I'm glad I did.

        I've got some other nice bits of information that i'll get out real soon, just gonna get my birthday out the way this weekend.

        Good luck with your business




        Originally Posted by Always-A-Warrior View Post

        A job well done my friend. Your patience and persistence paid off well. Sometimes all it takes is a little belief and a prayer to make dreams come true and as I see it, your dreams has just begun. I wish you all the best and more success for years to come. Very inspirational post. Thanks for sharing.

        Always-A-Warrior, really appreciate your kind words.

        I'm really happy other warriors had the patience and persistence to read my long thread. There obviously are some committed warriors here.

        When you start something new, you've got to have faith in yourself. Sometimes its easier to get that faith in yourself when others give you a "pat on the back", like I had at my first seminar.

        Of course I had faith when I started but more than that I had made a promise to myself to keep going until I made it. (to be honest, i had to make it work, i had no back up plans in case i failed).

        You are so right for bringing up that faith and prayer are essential, but you also need to take action.

        All the best in your business my friend

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  • Profile picture of the author WarriorWinky
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      I know this is slightly off-topic, but I have to say the Karma thing is very important (or, as us Christians like to call it "The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you).

      Since I first began my business in 1998, I have always said that your reputation for integrity is your MOST valuable business asset.

      Over the past few years - thanks to a divorce and the recession - I experienced some financially tight times. It was very tempting to compromise my standards to pick up some quick cash... but I resisted the urge.

      This commitment to maintaining my standard of integrity came back to me a thousand-fold a few short weeks ago when my server crashed the very same day one of my products was offered as WSO of the Day.

      I sold over $10,000 worth of products during the 2 days my server was down... even though people knew they'd have to wait to receive their materials. The comments on the WSO thread (as well as numerous emails I received) all came down to the same thing...

      I've always provided excellent value in my products and always been honest with my students. Therefore, people were willing to trust me by paying first even though it would be a few days before they received their products.

      Honestly, the encouragement and positive feedback I received from my students (both here in the forum and via email and support tickets) turned what could have been a totally negative experience into one that was stressful but very positive.

      KARMA... when you act with integrity, it's an awfully nice thing to experience the rewards.
      :-)

      Hi Holly,

      I have the utmost respect for you for maintaining your standards.

      Its is so easy to cut corners and look for unproductive shortcuts when we are not "at our best".

      I got your email about your server issues. Its great how you managed to pull through that so well.

      Theres a great lesson in Holly's experience for everyone.

      In the world we choose to live in, reliant on technology, software, databases etc... we must become extremely versatile to be able to deal with little setbacks that are bound to happen (that are sometimes beyond our control).

      As long as we remember our promise / responsiblity to oour customers then we'll have a business that will grow from strength to strength.

      Well done Holly. Let's speak next week.

      Urmil


      Originally Posted by Think2win View Post

      Thanks for the inspirational post.

      Thanks Think2win for your comment. I really appreciate you taking the time to read the post/thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author AubreyWebWhiz
      Great advice Urmil! Thanks for sharing... Very Informative!
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  • Profile picture of the author Always-A-Warrior
    A job well done my friend. Your patience and persistence paid off well. Sometimes all it takes is a little belief and a prayer to make dreams come true and as I see it, your dreams has just begun. I wish you all the best and more success for years to come. Very inspirational post. Thanks for sharing.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author abundantliving
    Thanks for the feedback guys. But I want to point out... I shared that story to highlight just how much Karma DOES matter.

    One of the things that Urmil does - and does well - is he handles his customers with integrity. In his own words, he won't take on clients that he doesn't think he can really help to increase their profits.

    I shared my story to paint a picture of just how important that integrity is... and how it can come back to bless you at a time you might just need the positive input.
    :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      Thanks for the feedback guys. But I want to point out... I shared that story to highlight just how much Karma DOES matter.

      One of the things that Urmil does - and does well - is he handles his customers with integrity. In his own words, he won't take on clients that he doesn't think he can really help to increase their profits.

      I shared my story to paint a picture of just how important that integrity is... and how it can come back to bless you at a time you might just need the positive input.
      :-)

      Hey Holly,

      Talking of integrity, I think it is so important to begin by behaving with integrity with regards to ones own accountability.

      What I mean is, if you say you are going to do something by a certain date or time (e.g. call 10 business owners, learn how to put up a blog, build a squeeze page, etc...), then make sure you do it, no excuses, no giving up, no feeling sorry for yourself and definitely no procrastination...

      I think you get the picture.

      Once you start acting with integrity about your own decisions and goals, then its so easy to behave ethically and with integrity when it comes to your prospects, customers and even JV partners.

      What do you think?

      Urmil
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
      Originally Posted by abundantliving View Post

      Thanks for the feedback guys. But I want to point out... I shared that story to highlight just how much Karma DOES matter.

      One of the things that Urmil does - and does well - is he handles his customers with integrity. In his own words, he won't take on clients that he doesn't think he can really help to increase their profits.

      I shared my story to paint a picture of just how important that integrity is... and how it can come back to bless you at a time you might just need the positive input.
      :-)
      I'm honestly not sure why anyone would take on someone whose profits they can't increase. Either their business is so bad that you can't do anything and you are taking the money and running , or you just aren't trying hard enough.

      I had one guy come and see me and Eddie, and he had gone to BT to get a website made. Paid £2000.

      They wanted him to write the content. He couldn't face doing it - so he came to us to do it for him or make a new website.

      Instead, we put him in touch with a local copywriter who we were doing a website for. She got some extra work, a fantastic portfolio and he got his website sorted.

      His web business went on to get £300,000 worth of investment. He still sends business our way, and he never paid us a penny.

      Why? We weren't the right people to help him.

      Sometimes showing someone the right thing to do, even thought it's not working with you can work wonders.

      And it doesn't hurt your Karma either!
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  • Profile picture of the author jsnfou
    Great thread, truly inspiring. I actually sent you a pm (pretty long one too) and today I realised it didn't go through because I don't have enough posts.
    OP, if it's possible can you please PM me with your email - Just curious about some things and I'd like to ask you a few questions if that's alright.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsnfou
    Check your inbox, my dear friend!
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  • Profile picture of the author hallpart
    I had no idea what I was going to sell him
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Urmil,

    Thanks for the great post.

    I've just started a project I'm thinking I should be getting a lot more for.

    But, because of your post and the other comments in the thread,
    I'll keep my mind on the bigger picture.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Urmil,

      Thanks for the great post.

      I've just started a project I'm thinking I should be getting a lot more for.

      But, because of your post and the other comments in the thread,
      I'll keep my mind on the bigger picture.

      Dan

      Hi Dan,

      Thanks for your comments, really appreciate it.

      Its so easy to want to charge lots when you first start out, especially when you see all the hype about how people are making 1000s within 5mins with their first client.

      In my opinion, its better to start, building slowly and build a strong foundation and reputation that will continue to pay you for years to come. This also will have the effect of helping you reduce the amount of marketing you have to do as referral marketing will bring you all the clients you could ever wish for.

      I started small, not out of choice, it was more out of lack of experience of internet marketing and lack of confidence to ask a client for 1000s, but as I achieved results for clients, I became more confident and increased what I charged as I knew in myself I could deliver and also had real world proof and not just theory I'd read about and case studies to help build my credibility.

      I now have a waiting list of clients who want me to do work for them.

      And I am sure you too will achieve that one day, because its not difficult especially if you focus on the most important factor - delivering on your promises the the customer.

      Good luck my friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigredrassler
    Thanks so much for this post. I just got my first paying client, taking it at a low-low price $250 not because the money would help, but because I needed at least one person to have me do some work so I can showcase it.

    I came up with a service I am going to be offering exclusively for a while and was playing with the figures to see how to make it profitable and determined the number would be high. Then I remembered something I learned at my first interview for a commission based job, "Don't sell from your own wallet!" This means that just because you think the price is high, don't assume your prospect will. Especially if you can show value.

    My new method will generate over $12000 dollars in profit per month for my clients after 6 months(This figure was arrived at using conservative numbers from campaigns run by people here on the forums like 5% and 10% of 3000 people) and it shouldn't be a problem to sell them on this idea for the price I had come up with, or even significantly more.

    In fact, after reading your post, I think I am going to triple my price because the results they will be getting from these campaigns do justify a high 5 figure price. That gets me a lot more profit and still allows them to make a lot of money, making for happy clients.

    Thanks again
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by bigredrassler View Post

      Thanks so much for this post. I just got my first paying client, taking it at a low-low price $250 not because the money would help, but because I needed at least one person to have me do some work so I can showcase it.

      I came up with a service I am going to be offering exclusively for a while and was playing with the figures to see how to make it profitable and determined the number would be high. Then I remembered something I learned at my first interview for a commission based job, "Don't sell from your own wallet!" This means that just because you think the price is high, don't assume your prospect will. Especially if you can show value.

      My new method will generate over $12000 dollars in profit per month for my clients after 6 months(This figure was arrived at using conservative numbers from campaigns run by people here on the forums like 5% and 10% of 3000 people) and it shouldn't be a problem to sell them on this idea for the price I had come up with, or even significantly more.

      In fact, after reading your post, I think I am going to triple my price because the results they will be getting from these campaigns do justify a high 5 figure price. That gets me a lot more profit and still allows them to make a lot of money, making for happy clients.

      Thanks again

      Hi bigredrassler,

      Firstly congratulations on that first paying client. You must be over the moon. Getting your first customer is the biggest factor that really can help you believe that this business "providing services to local businesses" can work for you.

      And you've just proved it to yourself. So well done. The next step is to get the 2nd paying customer, and then get a regular flow of customers and before you know it your business will begin to snowball and you wont be able to stop it.

      Do not worry that you are charging only $250 for your first paying client. This client will benefit from your experience and you will benefit from $250, a great testimonials and a real website that is proof of your web marketing abilities and you can use that as proof in your future marketing.


      If you are extremely confident that you can deliver $12,000 per month for your client in 6 months, then I would definitely charge a significant amount for your services.

      In fact, if that $12,000 is profit (NOT revenue) for the client, then I would charge as much as a third (33%). This way the client will be happy that he is making a good return on his investment and also that he is making twice as much as you are from the transaction.

      Remember the client feels its his business and although you are providing a service if what you charge is a lot in the clients perspective he may not be happy to proceed no matter what he could stand to make.

      What I have found is in some cases, clients are more concerned about how much you are charging and making rather than what they will make, so ensure you can show them that they are making significantly more than you from the transaction.

      You wont get this objection with all business however. Mainly mum and pops businesses who have built it from the ground up and feel that any profits in the company should be theirs.

      Remember the key is to show the client the value in a way he/she understand and that is in profit or revenue, not technical jargon.

      I'd love to hear how you get on, so keep in touch.


      Urmil
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  • Profile picture of the author mindblowin
    very nice post to take in .....thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author urmilp
      Originally Posted by mindblowin View Post

      very nice post to take in .....thanks
      Hey mindblowin,

      thanks for taking the time to read this post.

      I'm hoping it really helps those looking to get started in the offline consulting business really start off with the right mindset, not with a mindset of making millions overnight.

      Building an offline consulting business is the same as building a real business. I used to think making money online was just a hobby and second income until the money I made from the web design and marketing magnificiently overtook any job salary I had ever received.

      this business can change your life for the better. It changed mine

      all the best.
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      • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
        Karma does make a lot of difference and so does money. People who don't get paid, rewarded, noticed, thanked or otherwise appreciated won't feel like doing anything after awhile.

        Something, anything makes a difference or you will lose confidence and your pair shrinks. On top of that the same people who are not making any money don't want handouts, they want to make their own. Free help is nice but it's not the answer. Everyone has to start somewhere so why not start with a SMILE?

        THE DIFFERENCE A SMILE MAKES
        Signature

        I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]

        When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author jacquic
    A very thoughtful, excellent post - many thanks.

    It's been interesting reading the replies, too.

    It's good to see so much positivity, inspiration and success.
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    See our great value publications - business, SEO, etc. Being added to weekly.
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