How to deal with chiseler clients?

13 years ago

Ask him how it makes him feel if his customers try and do the same thing to him as a business owner.

A contract is a contract tell him to write the check.

Originally Posted by DerFreshmaker

Hi,

A few months ago, I landed a client. He wanted a break on his fees, so I agreed to the following:

$300 per month initially
$450 per month when he hits page 1
$600 per month when he hits #1

Well less than 3 months into it and he's on page 1. So, I sent him an invoice for the extra $150. (He's on automatic payment for $300.) I sent him notices for about a month. The guy never looked at them until yesterday. (I use Freshbooks, so I can tell.)

He said he didn't understand the pricing, which is odd considering he came up with the tiered pricing. Well, I explained it to him and sent him a copy of the contract but he still hasn't paid the $150.

His next bill is this weekend, so he'll be $300 past due. He wants to meet Monday. I have a feeling he's going to try to weasel out of the $300. Any suggestions on how to handle this?:confused: I want to be prepared.

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Richard Tunnah

13 years ago

I'd not have done it the way you have TBH but anyway did he sign the contract? If he did then I'd remind him politely he needs to pay you what you're owed. Can you swap out the work you've done with him for a competitor? If so that's an option IF he fails to pay. I'd say you have been approached by john blogg (his competitor) who is ready and willing to pay you. You don't work with 2 competing companies in the same town but obviously if they won't pay you then you'll look at working with them instead.
Again in future I'd think about how you structure deals.

Good luck

Rich

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

13 years ago

Jesse James has a solution for this...tattooed on his hand -

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Teravel

13 years ago

If there is a signed contract, you shouldn't have any issues at all. Show the contract, show the results, and collect payment.

If you feel it is going in a direction you don't like, remind yourself that it is YOUR business, and that you don't need that person as a client. You can always contact their competition, and sell your services to them. You can let your current client know that, and even give them names of their competition that may be interested.

Things shouldn't have gotten as far as they already have. As soon as they missed their first payment by $150, you should have stopped everything, called the business owner, and explained the situation. If they don't fulfil their part on the contract, pull the plug.

Do not let it get to the point where they owe you a ton of money. If you let it get to that point, it will continue to build and you'll be ripping yourself off. If that person refers any new clients, you can bet they will tell them you are easily manipulated or that they can duck out on fee's without recoil. Then the best you can do is drag them through small claims court, which takes time and money away from your business.

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RRG

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Teravel

If there is a signed contract, you shouldn't have any issues at all. Show the contract, show the results, and collect payment.

If you feel it is going in a direction you don't like, remind yourself that it is YOUR business, and that you don't need that person as a client. You can always contact their competition, and sell your services to them. You can let your current client know that, and even give them names of their competition that may be interested.

Things shouldn't have gotten as far as they already have. As soon as they missed their first payment by $150, you should have stopped everything, called the business owner, and explained the situation. If they don't fulfil their part on the contract, pull the plug.

Do not let it get to the point where they owe you a ton of money. If you let it get to that point, it will continue to build and you'll be ripping yourself off. If that person refers any new clients, you can bet they will tell them you are easily manipulated or that they can duck out on fee's without recoil. Then the best you can do is drag them through small claims court, which takes time and money away from your business.

Couple things here:

Yes, you can fire a client. And you should, in certain circumstances.

Also, may want to consider using Paypal monthly subscriptions for those services. You don't have to be a bill collector, and he doesn't have to write a check every month.

Yes, there is a fee, but that is the cost of doing business. It's worth it for the convenience. Plus, you can factor that into your pricing.

I would never count on getting a check or sending invoices for a recurring monthly service.

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mjbmedia

13 years ago

Tell him you will meet him ,but it will cost him $300 to do so, if he doesnt pay then send his site back down the rankings , contact his main competitor and offer to change all the backlinks you presumably done to point to them for a small fee.

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LakiPolitis

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mjbmedia

Tell him you will meet him ,but it will cost him $300 to do so, if he doesnt pay then send his site back down the rankings , contact his main competitor and offer to change all the backlinks you presumably done to point to them for a small fee.

This is probably the most deviously ingenious thing I've ever heard.

Look this client's clearly benefiting from your services. Explain to him that the contract is legally binding, and if he has an issue with the contract, he should produce a legal leg to stand on with it. The services rendered match the contract terms and so does the bill.

Worst case, push the price up in your billing, let him go over and then after the contract period runs out send him to collections for the past due balance. Give him a 30-day warning. Then shut off his service, and send him to collections.

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DerFreshmaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mjbmedia

Tell him you will meet him ,but it will cost him $300 to do so, if he doesnt pay then send his site back down the rankings , contact his main competitor and offer to change all the backlinks you presumably done to point to them for a small fee.

Changing most of the links would take too much time but he does have a couple competitors in his building that I will be visiting should this turn sour!

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Creativegirl

13 years ago

You did the work, proved your services and you have a contract to cover yourself. Stand by the integrity of it.

Do you have a collections policy and statement on your contract and invoices? If not, add it. Generally 1-5% assessed on unpaid invoices after 30 days. Know the requirements for collections, customers have to know you have a policy and what it is.

Notify him all work will cease until the outstanding amount is paid. If he doesn't pay, then stop work, reverse seo, etc. to drop his site. Decide if you want to turn him over to a collection agency or take him to court to collect. In court, the burden of proof is on you. You have the signed contract.

Good luck.

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DrPaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DerFreshmaker

Hi,

A few months ago, I landed a client. He wanted a break on his fees, so I agreed to the following:

$300 per month initially
$450 per month when he hits page 1
$600 per month when he hits #1

Well less than 3 months into it and he's on page 1. So, I sent him an invoice for the extra $150. (He's on automatic payment for $300.) I sent him notices for about a month. The guy never looked at them until yesterday. (I use Freshbooks, so I can tell.)

He said he didn't understand the pricing, which is odd considering he came up with the tiered pricing. Well, I explained it to him and sent him a copy of the contract but he still hasn't paid the $150.

His next bill is this weekend, so he'll be $300 past due. He wants to meet Monday. I have a feeling he's going to try to weasel out of the $300. Any suggestions on how to handle this?:confused: I want to be prepared.

Since the term 'Small Claims Court' has already been brought up, I would suggest that in that event, everything should be in writing, and that you should NOT take any 'Retaliatory' action.

Always think "What is the judge going to think about this?" before sending anything to the client.

Most laws in Small Claims are based on the 'Reasonable Man' principle, what would a Reasonable/Rational person do or say,in your place or reading your letters/emails?

I have to ask, what was the rational for the reduced price?

If the reason for the reduced price was economic, then find out of your service improved his condition. If he is still in the same economic position, you might consider the positive effects on your business, of simply continuing the discount, based on a promise of a positive public review, and a set number of full priced referrals. (basically a micro affiliate program)

If the reason was based in his doubting your abilities, you have alleviated that doubt based on your success. Point this out and suggest that perhaps a new contract is in order, at full price.

The absolute WORST case is, that you use your talents to harm his business or his listing. This can cost you more than you made from the transaction in damages and fees, and if this guy is a true swarmy, short cut, sleazy business type, he's already waiting for you to take some actionable step so he can sue you first.

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MaxReferrals

13 years ago

Simple. Get what's owed, and don't deal with him anymore.

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DerFreshmaker

13 years ago

Thanks for the advice everyone. The guy was a bit impatient about waiting 3-4 months to get on page and he was a little doubtful, so I agreed to the tiers. That's the last time I'll offer that option. If he decides to welsh on the contract, I won't undue any of the work or cause negative SEO harm. The last thing I want is a lawsuit. I'll update the thread Monday after I meet with him.

Thanks

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Thats a shame, but everynow and then you'll face one of these idiots - especially dealing with SEO services.

Let me share a bit of a secret: everytime I start a new seo campaign, I always create 2-4 new sites in that exact market. This way I can dilute the backlinks among various sites (if you do deliver SEO you know why I do this...) and I get top rankings at least to one site - beside my customer website.

Then, if he doesn't want to pay his monthly fees, I just stop his campaigns and push my site to the top. His site will drop in weeks/months and mine(s) will go to the top.

Then I add a huge banner offering advertising with my company name logo/phone/email. Usually they feel embarrassed and get back to us with a big apology and a check in hand.

When they don't, some other company will - even for a lower fee.

Plus: When you have your own sites in there, you can always sell other things beside SEO services. Yesterday closed a deal with a gardener looking for advertising. But her website was so bad I sold her a new one + the SEO fees.

See?

Your own properties in those niches is what can make all the difference.

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henrichowe

13 years ago

How long is the contract for? You are definitely due your $450, but I am just curious to know if he has increased his business because he is on page 1? It is logical to assume he has but is there a way to measure the new business or leads he has gotten?

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DerFreshmaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by henrichowe

How long is the contract for? You are definitely due your $450, but I am just curious to know if he has increased his business because he is on page 1? It is logical to assume he has but is there a way to measure the new business or leads he has gotten?

The contract is month-to-month. He hasn't told me whether his business has increased but I explained to him that it would take some time to move up to the top 3 or top 1 spot. Also, I've already got about 10 phrases on page one for him. Previously, he was no where to be found.

I have a good paying day job, so I'm not worried about losing a chiseler but I definitely want the money I'm due.

BTW, he told me that he didn't want to attract clients who were after discounts because they weren't worth the hassle. But he asked for one. The irony!

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LakiPolitis 13 years ago

Originally Posted by DerFreshmaker

BTW, he told me that he didn't want to attract clients who were after discounts because they weren't worth the hassle. But he asked for one. The irony!

Clients like this just don't grasp the idea, that you can make MORE money offering a 5%, 10%, or 15% discount to your products than you would not offering it. It's simply ROI, and it's a shame he doesn't understand basic business principles. Limited time, reward offerings make for high conversions... [there's no pouty-face emoticon...]
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demiller

13 years ago

I agree with most everybody here. Unfortunately, the reality of signed contacts is that they only work if your client is an honest person.

There are some people out there that will try to weasel their way out, and they're calling your bluff on if you'll actually take them to small claims court. Is $300 worth your time, effort,and money to actually do that? If not, don't be afraid to fire your client! It's sounds odd, but it will be one of the best things you can do for your sanity.

Here's what I would do to save this account:

1. Meet with your client over the phone - don't go to their business, because then you're on their turf. During this meeting, explain to them the results of what you've done. Also be sure to explain to them that you're playing with a 3rd party (the search engines) that you can't always control. Sometimes SEO takes longer than we expect it to, but once you've got that great placement, the value that your client will get in return is far greater than what they paid you. Make sure you communicate this to them and that they UNDERSTAND it!

2. At this point, the meeting will go one of two ways. They will either understand what you've just told them, and you'll get paid and continue on marketing this client. Or, they will begin to argue with you doubting your abilities. At that point, finish the meeting and let them know that if you don't receive what you're owed by a certain date that ALL WORK WILL STOP. Cut your losses and move on.

Occasionally, in this business you're going to run across the types of clients that doubt what you can do, or are difficult, cheap, etc... Fire them fast and often! It's your business, so you get to choose who will benefit from your expertise.

One piece of advice - Typically, the cheaper the client is, the harder the client is to work with. My highest paying clients are always my best clients, because they understand the value in what I'm doing. Raise your rates and you'll get better clients in the future!

Hope that helps you!

Thanks
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LakiPolitis

13 years ago

Originally Posted by demiller

Occasionally, in this business you're going to run across the types of clients that doubt what you can do, or are difficult, cheap, etc... Fire them fast and often! It's your business, so you get to choose who will benefit from your expertise.

I wish someone had told me this when I first started. It's absolutely true. I "fired" a client 2 months ago. It was awesome. I gave them a discount on their final invoice, they thanked me very genuinely and actually got me a referral. Sometimes "firing" your client in the politest - it's all my fault, not your - way possible and cutting your losses helps you move on.

Trust me, they weren't worth my effort. They'd constantly overwrite the work that I did. I eventually wasn't having any part of that.

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DerFreshmaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Thats a shame, but everynow and then you'll face one of these idiots - especially dealing with SEO services.

Let me share a bit of a secret: everytime I start a new seo campaign, I always create 2-4 new sites in that exact market. This way I can dilute the backlinks among various sites (if you do deliver SEO you know why I do this...) and I get top rankings at least to one site - beside my customer website.

Then, if he doesn't want to pay his monthly fees, I just stop his campaigns and push my site to the top. His site will drop in weeks/months and mine(s) will go to the top.

Then I add a huge banner offering advertising with my company name logo/phone/email. Usually they feel embarrassed and get back to us with a big apology and a check in hand.

When they don't, some other company will - even for a lower fee.

Plus: When you have your own sites in there, you can always sell other things beside SEO services. Yesterday closed a deal with a gardener looking for advertising. But her website was so bad I sold her a new one + the SEO fees.

See?

Your own properties in those niches is what can make all the difference.

Great advice. I already have a directory appearing on page 1 for his primary phrase and I just ordered a banner today. I'm going to make it standard operating procedure to buy 2-4 per your advice for future clients.

Thanks

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How to deal with chiseler clients?

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