Proposals Will KILL Your Offline Business...

Chris,

Some people still need them for a variety of reasons...try getting institutional or large corporate clients without one. However, you make good point in that it is important to limit what you put in them. I only include simple explanations so that we have a bulleted list of items, but not SPECIFICS, i.e. Social Media management (Facebook, Twitter) $500 per month, something along those lines. Just saying...if I am charging $5000/month for a list of services and they require a proposal, I am DEFINITELY sending a proposal.

Mac the Knife

Agree with both previous poster here. I have offline customers (not OM) that CANNOT sign off on a deal without a particular paper trail - one step of which is the proposal. My proposals are as vague as possible on specifics. That changes when it comes to contract time. My contracts are accompanied by a Service Agreement - which contains the specifices and is covered by an NDA clause in the contract.

I believe it was Kevin Riley that I heard it from first, but it's stuck with me and I've applied it to as much as I can...


"Give them the WHAT, Sell them the HOW."


You shouldn't be telling them HOW you're going to do things for them, in the proposals... you should be telling them WHAT you're going to be doing for them.

Good point 100% agree only spend time doing anything for a client if you know they will pay you. Writing a proposal takes time, if they aren't interested, get them interested, if you can't the best proposal in the world won't do anything except take up your time.

Preparing a proposal at their beckon call shows them you are their biatch. Even if you get them as a client you have already lost.

I never start out with a proposal except for one that says I have to perform keyword research and a competitive analysis before I can give them the full one. I explain that everything online is not equal and that, if I don't do the research, any proposal that I give them may not be worth a thing. In fact, I tell them that I do NOT bring on clients without one and most people appreciate that.

Then I tell them that the analysis is going to cost them $395-595 depending on their industry based on the assumed competition and area covered (I don't tell them there's a price spread. I give them the price I decide it's worth).

At the end they get a report that shows good quality (and bad quality) keywords, competition for page one for the terms researched and my suggestions how to attack the market (in general). Once I send it I spend about an hour on the phone explaining the report but in reality, I'm listening to them so I can see how to sell them on the proposal.

I land about 80% of the clients I do this with and the others... oh well, I was paid well for doing something simple (the report) so who cares.

This method lands me about a client every week or two at a rate of about $1000 per client and,after, 12 years, that's a lot of clients (and money).

This way, when you give them the proposal, they have:

1. already invested in you
2. been on the phone with you so they know that you know what you are doing
3. have already been subtlety "pre-sold"
4. are already looking for your proposal (and, yes, it's generalized)
5. And, have already partly decided that they are going to use you

I love the idea that people pay me to research the stuff that I'll use to sell them. How much better can it get?

Interesting thread. Let me say this...I can understand both points of view. One of the things that could make my perspective unique is that I'm an offliner but online mktg is also my 9 to 5-particarly dealing w. vendors pitching their services.

Before becoming an online mktg mgr I probably would have said that you dont need a proposal as they can slow things down for you...But what I can say now is that we've never awarded mktg contracts to someone who didn't present a proposal.

Furthermore, even if they did spell everything out in the proposal we're way too backed up to attempt to do it in house. Now this is a small biz we're talking about but honestly I'd expect that the situation wouldn't be much different for a larger company.

So if there is a reason to go with a minimalist proposal I'd say that reason would be to build an aura of mystique rather than out of fear that the company will take your idea and run with it their selves.

Hope that adds to the discussion folks.

In my opinion, if I don't already have a relationship with the company or at least some kind of trust, then they pay a proposal fee. No way around it. Even if it is 5K a month, I'm not doing it unless they pay a small fee... Otherwise, you're going to be competing with many others, you're going to invest a lot of time, and possibly walk away with nothing.

Some proposals, meetings, and presentations, have easily added up to over 20... sometimes 30 hours. 30 hours on the phone will make me that amount if I really push.

If you charge a formal proposal fee, they know you're serious... if they pay it, then they are already invested in you!

That is my take on it at least.

I usually charge for proposals (obviously, I don't call them "proposals" because who'd want to pay for that). I did send one out yesterday that I did not charge for because a) the prospect was a very strong referral from a close friend and b) we had a nice meeting at his restaurant and we had a nice 3-course meal on the house. But now I'm sitting here thinking, gee, I still shoulda charged something! Doing free work doesn't help anyone. If they are not prepared to spend even a $100 with me on the research project, why would they ever want to spend the $5K?

Disagree... maybe for small mom and pop places like mentioned... however larger businesses will want one, and good luck getting their business w/o one.

A company checks out some developers for a new building, they will want to see proposals from each. You think they'll go with the one that doesn't and just says all you have to know is we'll build you a building.... . Little hint --> like said above you don't necessarily have to call it a "proposal", and charging a fee for it is actually smart, it shows your serious and will weed out the tame wasters/bs'ers.

I think this is not so black and white...

Small mom and pops, usually don't even ask for a full scale proposal, so they're not the problem, imo.

But bigger, say Fortune 1000 companies, do expect a clear outline of what you will do, timelines, resources to be employed, etc. Over the years I have landed some big accounts, and even where I had a super strong 'in' with them, I still needed to provide some type of proposal.

Now what that proposal contains is up to the consultant. With a little practice, it's not too hard to write about what you plan to do, but not specifically the tools or exact process you'll employ.

I always say I charge for full proposals, but often waive the charge if we end up working together. To me, full scale proposals, means I am going after a 'big fish'.
_____
Bruce NewMedia

Yeah, charge for proposals, but dont call them that, call them "business plans" or something like that!!

what you can do is offer a 100% money back guarantee if they dont like the proposal, Charge them upwards of £150... And just say, if you dont like it you can have all your money back.

make sure the proposal is in paper form and you ONLY show it to them during a meeting so that if they dont like it, you can take it back and they are left with nothing but their money back.

This puts a real value on your services and makes you look like the real deal.

Guess it's just "business", isn't it?

As a grocery store customer I want to know how much those oranges gonna cost me, and owner even grabs of for me to taste: it's the way it goes.

With offline business owners I do the same thing: I let them "taste" what can be done for them, and let them know my price. If they want to go shopping somewhere else, that's just business.

Seems to me you're confusing a Proposal with a detailed plan of everything - and that not even my VA's get.

Proposal: oranges from California, fresh and juicy, extra quality - $$$ per Kilo.
Plan: Sorry, can't tell you how to grow your own California oranges.

In the end we sell oranges, we don't teach people how to grow them.

P.S. I love oranges, don't you?

I've seen people using proposals as a sales tool. IMHO...that is not what they are for.

My proposals are also my contracts. Sign it, pay me and we get started. This is long, long after the talking has been done and the sale has been made. So many people bring a proposal first and try to use it like a brochure. This is a terrible approach.

Quick note...

I tend to agree with Chris when it comes to Mom-n-Pop shops not needing a proposal to close business. In fact, when I didn't use a proposal with the smaller guys, I closed more deals than when I did use a proposal.

Honestly, now that I think about it, I believe that sometimes we subconsciously use proposals as a crutch for developing a relationship instead of digging deep into the business owner's problem that we might be able to solve.

Without a proposal, I was forced to cultivate and nurture a relationship built on trust, understanding and a honest perspective of results that could be achieved. By the time we were finished spending a couple of hours and sessions talking about the business, the owner's were ready to go on a handshake and that's how we started.

Now, of course I prepared written summaries of the work to be performed and the results that we were striving for, but that was done after payment was received.

Lastly, it also depends on how you're getting prospects into your business. If you get a client to contact you because you're advertising a service for a specific price for local small businesses, then the business owner will likely not need a in-depth proposal before agreeing to hire you because they're seeking you. A basic contract will do.

However, if you're out there soliciting for business, there's a much greater chance that prospects will want a proposal before they hire you.

In these cases, I have a proposal template with the "What" and not the "How" that I can tweak to be specific to a client in a few minutes if I really rushed it.

I can flesh it out and plan out deliverables AFTER I've been paid. Using this basic template, keeps me cool, calm and collected if a prospect totally flakes out on me and tries to do some underhanded stuff.

When it comes to closing bigger clients with multiple people in the decision making process, I think it's impossible to get the job without a proposal. I've spent over a decade working for big companies with million dollar marketing campaigns and they wouldn't give you the time of day without a written proposal.

Hope this helps,

Chris

This and stop agreeing to see a potential client for lunch. They want to squeeze marketing information out of you for free. And then will leave... leaving you with the lunch bill. Real talk...

Chris,

Funny story...I closed a $4000 web design deal last week OVER THE PHONE - no proposal

99% of my business is done with Q and A session via email/phone and I give them a price tag. No 40 page proposal.

I've closed several $500-$2k web design deals the last month with this simple email:
"Hello Mr. Doe

I reviewed your project requirements and the price will be $x,xxx for a custom WP website and turn around time is between 5-7 business days.

Thank you,
Ahmad"

So yes Warriors...a proposal is def NOT always needed (only in a few situations).

Good luck,
Ahmad

So it's time for the consultative sales trainer to weigh in, I guess. Hopefully I can share some info on what's happening in this tire-kicking process and what to do about it.

First, people want proposals to cover their butts.

They don't want to look stupid, they're terrified of being blamed, they definitely don't need their spouse or board of directors telling them they're an idiot for doing what they did.

Needing a formal proposal in response to an RFQ is a result of the high C types (look up DISC profile) who want to check compliance on every detail: that all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. Thus covering their behinds.

Not everyone will need one, and business owners are usually Ds in the DISC profile, meaning the hard-pushing, get-it-done types who will go ahead with spit and a handshake (but you'd better not ever let them down). The Ds don't need detail, but they usually have Cs covering for them (okay, you all remember Kirk and Spock, right?).

The typical model of selling today is called the Transactional Model. The seller offers something with features for the buyer. The seller attempts to overcome objections and "close." The buyer buys, or doesn't. The seller is pushing. The buyer resists. Emotions abound.

The system buyers have figured out to deal with salespeople is:

1. Lie about the extent of the problem, what they need, their budget for fixing it and just about everything else. There's nothing wrong about this: prospects do this to protect themselves, and you and I do, too.

2. Feign massive interest in an attempt to get a free education on the subject. Salespeople, who generally don't know how to shut up, gush out all sorts of product knowledge in an attempt to appear competent.

3. The seller submits a proposal.

4. The buyer/prospect, having been educated at no cost, disappears. Voicemails go unanswered. The seller, having told their boss they've got a hot one on the line, is confused and disappointed.

5. The buyer takes the free education, reduces all the sellers to the same level, and proceeds to source the same features & benefits at the lowest price.

Does this make sense? Have you experienced this, and are just now learning what happened?


So, Jason, what's the solution? What do we do as salespeople to stop this from happening?

Simple. We stop giving free education classes. We act like we did when we were new and didn't have much product knowledge. We ask a lot of questions. We set up straightforward "If...then" requirements. "If" I tell you how we can solve your problem, "then" you will give me an answer today, within a few hours or less, to whether you will move forward with us or not. Or I won't show you anything.

Demonstrating, or "demoing", should be the hardest thing to get out of you. And yet look how many companies offer demos of their products and services, giving free education to their prospects, right off the bat?

Would a lawyer do this? Would a lawyer "demo" for a client how to get them out of trouble? You *know* the answer is "Hell No!" They don't tell you, the client, what they're doing and how they do it. They just fix the problem for you. And bill you.

Hope this helps!

Great thread on an issue all offline marketers probably have to deal with.

Let's see if I can pull some common conclusions out of the discussion so far:

1) The smaller the client, the less formal they'll usually be, and the
less expectation there will be for a formal proposal.

2) If you do provide a proposal, make sure it's general in nature ("what"
goals your actions will accomplish) and don't give away any of your
trade secrets (the "hows" of what you would do for them).

3) Charge for a formal appraisal, not only to demonstrate that your time is
valuable, but to also pre-commit them as a client (who now has some
of their own skin in the game).

4) If you want to kick back that proposal fee to them if they sign up with
you, that could be a positive psychological inducement for them to
follow through with an engagement.

Did I capture the essence of these correctly? Anything significant I left out?

I only give proposals to large clients. Within the proposal I don't get into specifics, but I give a price break down of what I will do. Ex: Twitter Service, $400, Backlinking, $400 etc...

If a small company that I have not heard approaches me, I refer them to testimonials and references, it usually works out quite nice.

I'm so glad to have found this post! A potential client (prepaid legal) requested for a proposal this Monday.

With all the advices, I'd better scale down on the details to show to him.

But here in my market, we don't charge for proposals. Proposals here are somewhat like pitching.

Instead of the usual paper documented proposal, I'm thinking of doing one up using Powerpoint and send it to the prospect. Think it's a good idea?

one thing i have learned is don't ever tell them you are using software. tell them your "team" will get it done, be it research or link building.

Chris,
Great post. I have fallen into this trap I'm afraid. I got a load of enquiries from lawyers. Each wanted a full proposal. I gave out probably 7 or 8 and you know what....I never got the business. That was a hard lesson!

Rich

Have to agree with most of the comments here.
In my experience a 'high level overview' can act as a comfort factor for them. I spend a lot of time with a potential client first trying to understand what they really want I then prepare a one page overview showing I understand what they need, my solution (limited detail) and then pricing.
I try and establish in my initial meeting budget, competition, decision making process so that I have a fair idea what I am up against.

First let me say that I am new to the whole offline marketing arena, but my 18 years of commission sales experience tells me that people need to understand a few realities of sales.

1) Some people just won't buy from you. No matter how good your proposal or how strong your closing techniques are. That is just how it works.

2) As a salesperson, your goal is to get them to talk/meet with you. Especially when you are selling a service, you are essentially selling yourself and your expertise. If you are just giving people a detailed proposal without building any value in yourself, then why shouldn't they look for someone else.

Keep in mind that there are hundreds of companies online offering the services you are offering. Maybe not all together in one package, but they are out there.

Don't turn yourself into a commodity.

3) The ability to tell when a potential customer is just looking vs seriously interested is an art not a science. You have to get clues from what they say, how they say it, and when they say it. Something that is hard to do without talking to them.

@iamchrisgreen - So what do you do instead?


Anyone have links to any good 'proposals' or 'plans' or can throw out an example that doesn't give too much away?

I have a meeting this week with a potential client for custom offline and online marketing consulting and I'd like to leave something behind describing the "What" of my services and a timeline.