Customer initiated chargeback - any suggestions? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

Answer to thread title:

Yup.

Start encouraging check by phone. Thats what all the MLM companies are doing. Its the only way to protect against charge backs. Also better for down the road when customers credit cards expire and change... Bank accounts seldom do.

Rebuttal for "I dont want to give my check numbers over the phone".

- "Maam, its really the same thing as mailing a check... The information you give us is the same information that appears on the paper check you would mail us, this is just more efficient for everyones record keeping... Did you have that in front you ...? Okay and whats the bank name? Okay is that registered to you? Okay and go ahead and read me the first set of nine numbers across the bottom please..."

You know the drill Im sure.

BTW BJ, you have some responses to your classified ad at TMF.

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Khemal

13 years ago

Why not use an online payment processor such as PayPal or Intuit (https://ipn.intuit.com/login/home) to handle the transaction? Rather than you running the client's card you get the client to do it himself.

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bjallen

13 years ago

Well, moving forward perhaps I will do things differently, but isn't there anything I can do to pursue this guy and get my money? Seriously - I sat with him in his office on 3 different occaisions and worked with him on his SEO. And now, he can just say Nah - I never authorized these charges? That just doesn't seem right to me.

Thanks for your suggestions though.

BJ

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Well, moving forward perhaps I will do things differently, but isn't there anything I can do to pursue this guy and get my money? Seriously - I sat with him in his office on 3 different occaisions and worked with him on his SEO. And now, he can just say Nah - I never authorized these charges? That just doesn't seem right to me.

Thanks for your suggestions though.

BJ

Unfortunately BJ, no matter how you pursue it with the credit card company, "charge back money" can be held in review by a merchant processor for months or even inevitably... Not much you can do but dispute, and its going to be an irritating process, trying to defend your right to your own money... As Dan stated. Lesson learned. By the way, I agree this guy is a JERK!

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mosthost

13 years ago

"I agree" with a link to a contract works just fine, as long as your legal agreement is specific. Just set it up correctly and you won't get burned.

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jimbo13 13 years ago

Perhaps US is different from the UK but I doubt it.

You have essentially paid $2000 for a lesson which is always get a signature.

It also sounds as if you are not a member of any business organisation which would provide legal advice.

This is always worth getting. (For UK people join the FSB for £130 or so for a one man band and you will have legal access on the end of a phone along with access to legal templates and a raft of other benefits)

Here is a link for UK people.

The Federation of Small Businesses - FSB - The UKs Leading Business Organisation

I know that you are not in the UK so apologise a little but if you click on that link you can figure out what the US equivalent is because there will be one.

There is also this in the US where you can post a question and get a response from a lawyer.

Legal Help

Finally, most businesses factor in bad debt for this very reason. I suggest you do to.

Dan
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bjallen

13 years ago

Mosthost, not according to Amex. They told me they need a real signature on the contract or it is not binding.

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Mosthost, not according to Amex. They told me they need a real signature on the contract or it is not binding.

I wouldn't give up so quick. As you said, you have a paper trail that indicates the customer knows exactly who you are and what was ordered. He's claiming the work is unauthorized, which is complete B.S. Amex should side with you, not a liar.

You need to make sure your merchant account is clear that you sell intangible service items. You can set it up so that "I Agree" is binding, you just have to have your lawyer make your agreement legal. Believe me, every time you hit "I agree" on a domain registration, you ARE NOT getting your money back, with or without a signature.

If $2,000 orders are common for your online business, I'd update your structure to to include online orders. If not, make sure to get the paper contract. There's nothing more tragic than doing the work for someone likes this who is essentially beating you out of your rightful payment by lying to Amex.

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Tina Golden

13 years ago

Normally, I'm not that big on revenge but in this case, I'd do my darndest to undo everything I ever did for the guy and drop his site to the bottom of the SERPs. Thieves suck!

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Nathan Alexander

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

Normally, I'm not that big on revenge but in this case, I'd do my darndest to undo everything I ever did for the guy and drop his site to the bottom of the SERPs. Thieves suck!

My wife always tells me to "let it go" when things like this happen. It truly is hard.

On the one hand, you can NOT take it personally. It may be personal, it may be horrible, it may be a lot of things, including impossible to not take it personally ("c'mon Nathan, are you serious? Are you kidding me?! That's over 2 grand!! What would YOU do?), but this is what is best for you.

Being attached to the outcome emotionally can derail you, furthering your spiral.

Or....

You can channel that energy. Use it to fuel success as that is the last word. If slime gets to you, you get slimy (I'm not a poet, sorry).

However, and this is where it gets dangerous for me because I've struggled all my life to "let go" and forgive. I've had anger and stress issues that have given me gray hairs, more weight and a host of relationship problems.

But I agree, you can have a "bit" of revenge.

Bury him - in the listings.

Throw an event for all existing and potential future clients. Make it the "My loss is YOUR gain!" celebration.

Send a campaign out to some luke-warm contacts or cold call and direct mail some other prospects talking about the crappy situation.

Be sure to paint yourself as the victim and just be honest. Talk to them like you did to us - you're upset, hurt and frankly, you've really just tried to help.

And now you want to do the same for someone else (wink, wink) in the sense that why waste your skills on someone who now isn't paying and causing problems for you? You are ready to "bury" his lead and give it for a discount to another client.

There IS a way to talk like that without necessarily sounding like your a spiteful person. It's just a matter of being clear that you were going to keep working with existing, and find new clients, but now you have a bit of cheeky motivation to help other law firms or whatever.

As for that, maybe these guys all talk to each other. That's why I'd take everything you've got and put it into a long pdf. Emails, dates, everything.

Take the part of victim looking to move on with just a hint of...not revenge, but....more willingness to give a good deal. Just to replace your old client.

I suppose you can't name names, and you probably wouldn't want to, but make it public. Say, I was taken advantage of, now YOU can take advantage of my work because I choose to.

Anyway, long post, but you get the idea.

In the end?

Channel, focus and USE that anger and "unfairness" that you must certainly be feeling. It ISN'T right. But yes, life isn't fair. But YOU can choose to be the one to profit in so many more ways from it.

You're still left with choices. He can't take that from you the dumb butt-head. (Excuse the language.)

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Khemal

13 years ago

Your client IS a lawyer after all so that was your FIRST warning sign, unfortunately. You should have done it by the books from the start when dealing with that kind of client.

One thing you MAY be able to do is to forward the ORIGINAL emails from him that you have. Those emails will have his IP address embedded in the email header and that can tie the email to him legally. That may be enough for AE to prove that he was indeed aware of the charges and the work being done by you.

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marketingva

13 years ago

BJ,

You may be able to pursue him in small claims court where you live. Although he is a lawyer you do have documentation that the court may accept. If you win he will have to pay you by check or money order and he can't reverse those.

Bonnie

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RandyRandola

13 years ago

This is one of the reasons I don't work with lawyers as they will find the smallest thing and then take you to court. It doesn't "cost" them any money but it will cost you.

There is a thing called a verbal contract, which is what you have. I would pursue that avenue and it holds water. Your correspondence proves it.

And lastly, get a mtg set up (use a different name if you have to) and sit down with him and tell him you will use your considerable marketing skills to make sure everyone knows what he is. Unless you pays the bill and then the two of you can part ways.

I had a similar client and this is what I told him. He paid.

There also online esignature sites that constitute a real signature for contracts.

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Colm Whelan

13 years ago

What Randy Randola said - with a bit more detail. Throw together an exposé site of your dealings with him. Put it on your laptop and show it to him during your meeting - then tell him you can publish it AND get it to rank right beside his search results so that every time he's searched for, the prospect will see this info too. Ensure that content is factual only but slanted in your direction. DON'T actually publish it.

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Seth Bias

13 years ago

This is really sad to hear I am very sorry for this jerk! I say go and get all his keywords unranked and for the articles put that hes a scammer. LOL that would make his lawyer firm reputation go downhill. Hope for the best, contact a lawyer a.s.a.p and talk to him about it!

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javarog

13 years ago

If i were you I would take it under advisement from legal counsel and then if they think that you can win it I would take him on Judge Judy and let her humiliate the guy in front of 35 million viewers... Now that would get your money and revenge...

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Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RandyRandola

And lastly, get a mtg set up (use a different name if you have to) and sit down with him and tell him you will use your considerable marketing skills to make sure everyone knows what he is. Unless you pays the bill and then the two of you can part ways.

Originally Posted by Colm Whelan

What Randy Randola said - with a bit more detail. Throw together an exposé site of your dealings with him. Put it on your laptop and show it to him during your meeting - then tell him you can publish it AND get it to rank right beside his search results so that every time he's searched for, the prospect will see this info too. Ensure that content is factual only but slanted in your direction. DON'T actually publish it.

You two do realize that blackmail is a federal offense? I said undo what you did to his site but to do anything like you two are suggesting constitutes criminal behavior.

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Nathan Alexander

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

You two do realize that blackmail is a federal offense? I said undo what you did to his site but to do anything like you two are suggesting constitutes criminal behavior.

Absolutely.

Don't ever do anything TO him. You'll never recover. Period.

But you can still "get revenge" (I'm not entirely comfortable saying it that way, but still...) by undoing and helping others like Tina said above.

This kind of thing can totally make you question people and good intentions. Just don't let it make you a cynic.

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Colm Whelan

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

You two do realize that blackmail is a federal offense? I said undo what you did to his site but to do anything like you two are suggesting constitutes criminal behavior.

@ OP sorry if this is offtopic:
It's not blackmail if he owes you the money. It's not blackmail if it's not considered "unfair" under law - broad definition but there it is. If publishing information about unpaid debts is blackmail then Dunn & Bradstreet et al don't have a business model and aren't multi-billion dollar, multi-national companies - except they have and they are.

IRMC

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MaxwellB

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

You two do realize that blackmail is a federal offense? I said undo what you did to his site but to do anything like you two are suggesting constitutes criminal behavior.

As long as one doesn't say "I will do this, if you don't do this" slander/libel is only slander/libel if it's not true. You may tell them "I want you to know that I will be undoing the work I have done for you and making it known online locally of what you've done to my business"

Better yet just do it, then tell him you've done it afterward. As long as what you've said is true it's legal.

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Mr Offline

13 years ago

Small claims court maybe?

Card Companies have card holders
to uphold.

Court have justice to uphold.

Him being a lawyer I'd like to
see how he would try to
weasel out of your evidence
trail?

Im not a lawyer nor play one
in movies but I think he'd have
more to gain by being honest.

Not sure if small claims court
records are public but if they
are I would make the link rank
for his keywords.

He might settle out of court if
he can be made to realize how
much this can end up costing
him for a long time.

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Digital Traffic

13 years ago

Sounds like you have enough information to get the decision from AMEX in your favor, however, there may be several hoops to jump through.

First of all, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and make sure this is a blatant attempt to avoid this payment, and not just a communication problem. Perhaps he didn't recognize the payee, or his wife or receptionist made the reversal attempt.

Try calling him again tomorrow, does he have a receptionist or are you leaving voice mails? Give him until 3 or 4 in the afternoon to return your call.

If you don't hear from him by the close of business tomorrow, I would send him a nicely worded email with something to the effect of; you have received notice from AMEX that he is attempting to reverse a payment to you for worked performed, then state that you called him twice yesterday and again today, left messages and you're just looking for some clarification of the matter.

In the mean time, I would take a few minutes and write out a time line of your communication with him; times and dates of meetings, phone calls, emails, and projects completed.

You do have a signed work order from him? Or do you just have a written work order that you filled out? If it's signed by him, you should be good, if it's not, than make a note on the work order about the time, date and place of this conversation and who was present.

I would think that with the information you have, AMEX would favor on your behalf, but you may have to send them copies of your documentation. If they decide in his favor, then you have to decide if it's worth pursuing.

If it was me, I would probably pursue this in small claims court, more out of spite than anything else. I'm sure that this attorney wouldn't want to show up before the local judges as a defendant over a legitimate claim on your behalf.

But first, lets just hope it's communication problem.

Let us know what happens.

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Etak 13 years ago

That STINKS!

I would definitely file a small claims court case against him and then study up on any law you need to know before going in to court. The fact that you didn't have a signature for the credit card will not hold up in court with all the documentation you are able to provide.

I would also file a complaint against him with your state's Attorney General and with the Better Business Bureau (you can do both online). That should get his attention.

Make him give you the $2000 to make you go away! He expects you to lay down and die, so make sure he sees that that's not what you are going to do.

I assume you kept control over the work you were doing for him, so obviously you need to cut that off (website hosting, email marketing, etc.) until he pays you.

And lastly, never work with lawyers as far as marketing goes. Same for politicians! :-)
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Seantrepreneur

13 years ago

This is actually why I'm such a big proponent of doing everything the "right way". Which means having a signed contact. I even get a signed contract for all of our text message marketing customers. I'm not taking any chances at all.

That really sucks tho that he is doing that. If you are going to take any "revenge" don't write anything on here or that could be traced back to you. I would most certainly fill a complaint with whom ever you can.

Sean

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Dexx 13 years ago

It is unfortunate this happened to you, but hopefully you do indeed restructure your payment criteria as a result of this.

Option #1 - Collect by cheque for the initial setup and then collect by credit card from that point on (with a written agreement of what will be provided).

The initial cheque amount should be large enough that even if you do NOT receive another dime for your work...you still can walk away not feeling "burned."

Option #2 - Ensure YOU control the assets being worked on (the domain name, website files, etc.) so that if payment is not delivered as agreed upon that the services can be disabled and/or transferred to a business who is willing to pay. (almost like a rent-to-own model)

Hopefullt toy future dealings go much better!

Cheers,

~Dexx
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jrod014

13 years ago

That stinks and sorry to hear this happened to you.

Just an FYI, here are some great resources on SEO contracts.

SEO Contract Template: A Verbal Contract Isn't Worth The Paper It's Written On - YOUmoz | SEOmoz

and

Sample SEO Contract | Search Engine People | Toronto

Good luck

Jerry

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RySpencer

13 years ago

Well, Good thing is you are an SEO expert, so I can imagine you can get his rankings to drop quite quickly by promoting his competitors.

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dancorkill

13 years ago

I've dealt with charge backs before.

There is basically nothing you can do. It's in the credit card companies interest to protect their customer, imagine if they did not require signature proof, anyone could just charge anyone for anything. Emails etc, work agreements etc won't cut it. If they don't charge back the customer can just say ok I am switching credit card companies.

On the SEO front, I would just as other people have said, try and reverse the work done etc, but be careful as he is a lawyer. Was there a big gap in communication with the client? Managing clients before and after the sale is so critical to a happy IM biz.

How many new clients did you generate him? When people understand the value you bring they will be happy to keep paying.

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

I worked for one of the nation's largest banks for about 8 years. I've dealt with numerous credit card departments on behalf of customers. You are not going to get the chargeback reversed.

First thing I would do is send him an invoice for the work done.

You said you have a signed work order. That will do nothing for the chargeback, but would probably hold up in court if you wanted to go to small claims court. That is an option.

I probably wouldn't bother with that. I would send the invoice to try to collect the money in a civil way. If he does not pay, then I would offer to do SEO for his biggest competitor for free.
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Nlady

13 years ago

Sorry to hear about all your work and no pay. I would do as digital traffic suggested first and make sure it was his intention not to pay. If he avoids you and doesn't answer your calls or email I would go to the Bar Association and file a report. They aren't too keen on lawyers ripping people off and will sometimes help you. They are in charge of lawyers acting ethically and having their licenses removed.

Also, you can get a credit card reader for your smartphone for free from Intuit. It plugs into your phone, apple, android or smartphone and the screen is used for a signature and relayed to the cc company eliminating any problem with no signature. They charge 2.75% and no monthly fee.

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Blindbiz

13 years ago

I had a client do a similar thing to me. I produced 9 pages of proof and still lost. Start un doing some of the things you did for him or resell it to his competition.

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iAmNameLess

13 years ago

Shame shame shame.... If he is an attorney, then you need to use your skills and blow him up on review sites.

I understand your frustration, I have been doing this for a while and it is easy to feel comfortable with someone and not have a written signature. I had a contract agreed to, however, it was just a small clause saying if you agree to this blah blah blah process to make payment via paypal blah blah blah... doesnt mean anything in a chargeback. Signatures are everything.

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bjallen

13 years ago

Update for all who supported me and offered me advice on this thread.

Amex reversed the decision in my favor!!! I got my money refunded to my account immediately when they saw all the documentation, ranking reports, and written communications between the client and myself. It was easy to see he was lying.

Score one for the little guys!!

Many lessons learned here BTW. Thanks to all for your input! And if you are ever looking for an attorney... oh, never mind

BJ

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dudeshane01

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Update for all who supported me and offered me advice on this thread.

Amex reversed the decision in my favor!!! I got my money refunded to my account immediately when they saw all the documentation, ranking reports, and written communications between the client and myself. It was
BJ

Congrats there. Why don't you try charing by some escrow service to guard against such problems?
May be it is difficult to get clients to agree to that?

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Update for all who supported me and offered me advice on this thread.

Amex reversed the decision in my favor!!! I got my money refunded to my account immediately when they saw all the documentation, ranking reports, and written communications between the client and myself. It was easy to see he was lying.

Congratulations! Just like I told you. Amex is not in business to side with liars and frauds, whether they're customers or not.

That's why everyone should pay for email archiving with permissible eDiscovery. If it ever comes down to a chargeback, you have email proof and win.

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mojo1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

Congratulations! Just like I told you. Amex is not in business to side with liars and frauds, whether they're customers or not.

That's why everyone should pay for email archiving with permissible eDiscovery. If it ever comes down to a chargeback, you have email proof and win.

One of Google Apps for Business called "Vault" should help to eliminate future client correspondence headaches.

It provides Ediscovery & email archiving and even has a nice feature designed to stop the deletion of emails and chats by placing a Legal Hold on them as designated: Products ? Google Apps for Business

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Seth Bias

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Update for all who supported me and offered me advice on this thread.

Amex reversed the decision in my favor!!! I got my money refunded to my account immediately when they saw all the documentation, ranking reports, and written communications between the client and myself. It was easy to see he was lying.

Score one for the little guys!!

Many lessons learned here BTW. Thanks to all for your input! And if you are ever looking for an attorney... oh, never mind

BJ

Dont just stop there. File a complaint with your states law board. Tell them what happened and he could be disbarred! Hope this helps

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barbling

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Update for all who supported me and offered me advice on this thread.

Amex reversed the decision in my favor!!! I got my money refunded to my account immediately when they saw all the documentation, ranking reports, and written communications between the client and myself. It was easy to see he was lying.

Score one for the little guys!!

Many lessons learned here BTW. Thanks to all for your input! And if you are ever looking for an attorney... oh, never mind

BJ

That....is just plain awesome!

Congrats congrats congrats - it's so great to hear something turning out right that way.

Major wootness!

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bjallen

12 years ago

Hi all,

The drama continues... I just won a THIRD dispute with this guy. He keeps re-disputing the charges claiming different fictitious issues and I keep submitting my huge pile of documented proof. AMEX keeps finding in my favor. WHY does this DB continue to re-dispute? He is wasting my time and his. At what point does this become harrassment?

And why does AMEX allow him to keep re-disputing the same case over and over? Why don't they tell him to stop it?

I am thinking of calling my attorney and finding out if we can make this stop.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? I would appreciate any feedback or advice. Thanks everyone for your supportive posts about this situation.

BJ

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MaxwellB

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Hi all,

The drama continues... I just won a THIRD dispute with this guy. He keeps re-disputing the charges claiming different fictitious issues and I keep submitting my huge pile of documented proof. AMEX keeps finding in my favor. WHY does this DB continue to re-dispute? He is wasting my time and his. At what point does this become harrassment?

And why does AMEX allow him to keep re-disputing the same case over and over? Why don't they tell him to stop it?

I am thinking of calling my attorney and finding out if we can make this stop.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? I would appreciate any feedback or advice. Thanks everyone for your supportive posts about this situation.

BJ

I'm glad to hear things are working out for you. Keep the documentation of the first 3 disputes and their matching reversals of the chargeback. You'll have evidence that he is just trying to rip you off fraudulently.

You have to just keep at it, he is allowed to attempt a chargeback for many different reasons.

How did you get so unlucky? This is any business owners worst nightmare.

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Amber Jalink

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Hi all,

The drama continues... I just won a THIRD dispute with this guy. He keeps re-disputing the charges claiming different fictitious issues and I keep submitting my huge pile of documented proof. AMEX keeps finding in my favor. WHY does this DB continue to re-dispute? He is wasting my time and his. At what point does this become harrassment?

And why does AMEX allow him to keep re-disputing the same case over and over? Why don't they tell him to stop it?

I am thinking of calling my attorney and finding out if we can make this stop.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? I would appreciate any feedback or advice. Thanks everyone for your supportive posts about this situation.

BJ

Hi BJ

#1 - DON'T do any more work for this guy. Fire him as a client - he obviously shouldn't be working with you any longer.

#2 - DEFINITELY get your lawyer involved

#3 - DEFINITELY file a complaint with your local law association that gave him his licence.

Do all 3 - not just one.

I've had the odd client pull crap like that (not lawyers though) - chargeback, then have the audacity to try to get me to do more work, then try to file a claim agian.

I've usually won as well - you have all your proof.

He's just scamming - and that's not acceptable in any way, lawyer or not.

But absolutely #2 and #3 (you've probably already stopped doing further work).

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steve solo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

Hi All,

I got some unpleasant news from American Express today. A lawyer client of mine initiated a chargeback against me - claimed he never spoke to me or authorized the work. Now, I have a written work agreement, and a trail of emails 3 months long detailing the work he wanted done. I have ranking reports showing 1st and 2nd page rankings that I achieved for this guy for over 30 keyword phrases. But Amex informed me that if I don't have anything with his signature on it authorizing the charges, then they will probably not reverse the chargeback.

Lesson learned - always get a real signature before you charge a client's credit card. A written work agreement is NOT enough!

I tried calling him twice today, and he did not return my calls. Does anyone have any experience in these matters? Does anyone have any suggestions on actions I can take? The amount of the charges totalled $2090 over 3 months time.

So far, this is NOT what I call a good start to my work week...
:^((

BJ

bjallen

had the same issue a couple of time and now I only use paypal with a full disclaimer!! I guess our clients want some free service at times,..lol..thanks for bringing this up though,...

Steve

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Steve Peters Benn

13 years ago

I always have part of the contract that states that any outstanding issues that the client may feel justifies withholding payment must be notified in writing two weeks before payment dates (usually monthly) - otherwise the client is classed as negligent and deliberately avoiding payment.

This prevents the whole 'I'm not paying because of this fictitious issue' - those with real issues get sorted out ASAP.

Those who don't - need to let me know:

What is it that hasn't been fulfilled that was promised?
In what way can this be resolved.

I make sure EVERY client is aware of this on signup - and also that one day late is the same as a week late - unless they have given us advanced notice and filled a formal issue its classed as defaulting on payment.

All work stops etc. A fine is added. A month later, if nothing has happened - its off to court.

Hardly ever have to do it - but with the above terms and conditions it tends to filter out those 'clients' who are looking to take you for a ride, as they know they will have a VERY hard time.

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David Miller

13 years ago

I work for a law firm and I can tell you that they are not all dirtbags...at least no more than you will find in any other industry.

I've also had to work with Amex and other processors in dealing with chargebacks, and what has always been helpful is an actual log of contact information.

I keep a folder for every client with lined paper stapled inside. Every time I have a discussion, no matter how small, I make a note of it in the file. This kind of documentation carries a lot of weight.

I would not suggest that you do any type of expose' page. I can assure you that it will do you more harm than good. If you have a complaint about an attorney, the best place you can voice your grievance is with the bar association in your state. Attorney's have far more to fear from the BA then from the AG.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

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Aaron Doud

13 years ago

Wow you won a chargeback and from AMEX? That is amazing. Honestly I would feel bad for the work I did for this guy since he is clearly a horrid person and a bad lawyer. Credit card companies find in favor of the customer almost always and AMEX is always hugely customer focused.

Basically as a lawyer he should have had his ducks in a row. The fact he didn't speaks volumes about his ability. He must lose a lot of cases.

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bailbondsguys

13 years ago

Unfortunately I have worked with lawyers in the past and they typically try to pull something like this within 3 to 6 months of receiving services. E-signatures typically will prevent the credit card companies from siding with the client. I would recommend sending all of your documentation to AMEX and still try to fight it even if you do not have the signature.

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bjallen

12 years ago

If I undid the work, I would have to refund his money, so I will not be doing that. I can only hope that the Google Penguin will slap his site silly! LOL

No really - I just want the harassment to stop. I have a friend who works for the state bar association. If he tries this crap one more time, that will be my next phone call.

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BJ

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MaxwellB

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bjallen

If I undid the work, I would have to refund his money, so I will not be doing that. I can only hope that the Google Penguin will slap his site silly! LOL

No really - I just want the harassment to stop. I have a friend who works for the state bar association. If he tries this crap one more time, that will be my next phone call.

Thanks
BJ

I didn't realize you had won the chargeback when I agreed that you should undo the work. And I guess that makes sense, if you undo the work you would need to refund him.

HAHA If google slaps his site doesn't that mean your techniques are questionable :p

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ronr

12 years ago

BJ hope the problems stop and you can move on. I'm sure you will do things a little differently from now on but here is something I'm doing.

Besides the obvious paperwork they need to approve before I get started, for high end clients I'm using bank drafts. This makes it much harder to pull anything like this because they can't chargeback. Also you don't pay those mechant credit card fees which can really add up.

As part of the paper work they just include a voided check and authorization for me to do bank drafts for the agreed on monthly payments. Instead of a 2-4% fee plus a chance of chargeback, I paid one time for the check software and each check costs me 20 cents. That's the cost of the paper I print the checks on.

Ron

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Shadowflux

12 years ago

I hope everything works out for you, that sort of thing really gets to me.

My father was a lawyer and I've talked to plenty before. I don't know if this will help but many lawyers will do something, like send a letter, just as a bluff. Most people are rather scared of lawyers and will do whatever they can to avoid them.

You could try finding another lawyer who would be willing to send a letter to this guy that talks about all the documentary evidence and how you would be very willing to take the guy to small claims court.

Signature or not, he hired you for work, you did the work, you have proof of this.

You may not be able to do much with the credit card company but you would likely win in small claims court as long as your state doesn't have any special laws about signatures and contracts.

Threaten to sue him for the full price of what he owes you plus time lost in pursuit of the case plus lawyer fees.

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Amber Jalink

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Shadowflux

<snip>
Signature or not, he hired you for work, you did the work, you have proof of this.

You may not be able to do much with the credit card company but you would likely win in small claims court as long as your state doesn't have any special laws about signatures and contracts.

Threaten to sue him for the full price of what he owes you plus time lost in pursuit of the case plus lawyer fees.

Absolutely.

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bjallen 12 years ago

MaxwellB,

Not necessarily on the Google Slap. I have not suffered from it, but from what I understand, all sorts of sites are getting hit, and not because of any questionable tactics.

Unfortunately, this client still has page 1 rankings for over 50 keyword phrases that I got for him. D-bag. \:^(
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- bjallen 12 years ago
  
  This was a result of me firing this guy back in July of 2011. He was a real pain to work with, and I had enough. Right after I let him go is when he filed the first chargeback complaint. He has filed 2 more since then and lost every time. He does not owe me any money. He just keeps re-disputing trying to get a refund because he is mad because I fired him. He's certainly a trippy character! If anyone ever needs a lawyer in Baltimore, PLEASE contact me first so I can warn you about who you should NOT hire!
  
  Thanks for all the support.
  BJ
  
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Rus Sells

12 years ago

I'm glad to hear you've won the cases with AMEX, from what I've read and experienced it can be hard to win. Even when you have lots of documentation.

I use a credit card authorization form that the client MUST fill out and sign. There's a place holder for the client to place their drivers license so I get that and make a copy of the form. Then its signed and valid.

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weheartcontent

12 years ago

I agree with what Amber Jalink says. Fire him and get your lawyer involved. Any future work with this client is going to end pretty badly.

I am pretty appalled someone actually has the guts to do something like this. Thats a new low. And he's a lawyer as well. I've always been pretty wary dealing with lawyers as clients.

Hope this turmoil ends in your favor!

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Customer initiated chargeback - any suggestions?

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