A fundemental question: Cold calling and disales is unethical and sleazy, how would you defend this?

by Sonny Am 113 replies
Hi,

I have a quick question.


I was talking offline marketing with someone I know, and he said that cold calling is unethical and kind of sleazy.

His reasoning is that. If you put out a site advertising your services and marketed it, business owners that are genuinely interested in what you have to offer will approach you. Instead during direct sales and cold calling you backing the owner up into a corner, alot of the time, so to speak and if they were really interested they would have come to you, you wouldnt have to hunt out the business?

How would you offline warriors defend yourselves against these sorts of comments, not that you should, or have to, but if you wanted to....

Id be really interested to hear this discussion


Looking forward to your replies.


.......
#offline marketing #calling #cold #defend #disales #fundemental #question #sleazy #unethical
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    There are alot of guys around here saying that...if you will look up their post trail you will find that many of them just go from post to post talking about how other methods are sleazy but you dont see their students in the offline forum every week saying "I got a sale".

    I think some have built entire reputations on using words like sleazy but they are rebels without a cause and thats pretty much all you ever hear from them. You will find that their followers all use a similar "Nazi" kind of language

    Its actually funny once you notice how bad the pattern is, and how typical it is from them.

    Those will always be with us , pay them no mind. I guess ATT and all the other major companies just do it because they are sleazy?

    Hardly.

    Those folks are busier putting down our methods than they are teaching their own people to get sales. Mostly they just teach hate.

    Hope this helps.

    Ps. The answer is not to defend yourself, just say "Whatever loser" and move on to the next number...let them talk while you get sales and get the customers that arent knocking their doors down with that passive marketing.

    It sounds good, and they have a class of people who like their ears tickled,running around all patting each other on the back with no daily sales, calling others sleazy. LOl

    They are just pissed because cold callers have taken over the offline forum and they are actually getting sales and the concept has been proven a hundred times... The best they have is words like "sleazy"- too late to say "Ineffective" but they tried that last year... didnt get far. Now its just "sleazy". lol

    Tell that to my stockbroker friend Rob.

    Some even have entire blogs devoted to talking down about others methods... I feel sorry for their readers. Not much lean mean results driven value there.


    @ Mods: I put some more of this at the end of the thread in case you run out. Its pretty long.

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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    If cold calling is sleazy, the **** it. I'm sleazy. I just cold called a major European company about selling our video services, they just opened up a branch in our area and they put a lot of video online and they don't have an in house video department in my area. How else will they find me? Word of mouth? Google? Screw that, I'll tell them I'm here and and I'll keep calling until their hire me or tell us to get lost.

    When I started in TV working for ad agencies, they had no clue who I was. I would call, set up an appointment and give a pitch. When I was 22 I closed an 8k deal with an ad agency that I cold called, pitched, and followed up with phone calls for 2 months. Was that sleazy?

    When I called up every TV station in a 3 county area every week trying to drum up work and landed a few gigs and eventually my first job, was that sleazy?

    When I wanted my last job. I called, applied and followed up for a month and a half. Sleazy?

    When I called businesses about buying ad space and some did, was that sleazy? I don't get it. If it is, I'll take sleazy over starving. I hate cold calling. I hate doing it. But I will if it comes down to it. Because how else can you get in touch with dozens of potential clients for pennies. It's cheap.

    I don't believe in the "if you build it they will come" BS. If thats the case, why have commercials, or radio ads, or any form of advertisement? Cold calling is just the most direct method of asking for a sale. It's naked and raw and powerful and CHEAP, things that scare most people to death. They want it nice and clean and sugar coated.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

      they just opened up a branch in our area and they put a lot of video online and they don't have an in house video department in my area. How else will they find me? Word of mouth? Google? Screw that, I'll tell them I'm here and and I'll keep calling until their hire me or tell us to get lost.
      .
      And in the process you would probably find two more prospects so you wouldnt even care if they told you to get lost....or iof someone called you sleazy. You can always find more prospects where you got that one, and arent just moved by whatever the wind brings you.... You have CONTROL over your flow.

      People even call Donald Trump sleazy. and Bill Gates. The people who perpetuate that kind of vibe always will no matter what. Its their "M.O."

      (Maybe a Napoleon complex?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    How or why would anyone waste time defending themselves
    or what they do against the personal bias of the ignorant?
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    • Profile picture of the author StrategicCheetah
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      How or why would anyone waste time defending themselves
      or what they do against the personal bias of the ignorant?
      Well said, I wouldn't even dignify them with a response of any kind personally.
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  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    His reasoning is that. If you put out a site advertising your services and marketed it, business owners that are genuinely interested in what you have to offer will approach you. Instead during direct sales and cold calling you backing the owner up into a corner, alot of the time, so to speak and if they were really interested they would have come to you, you wouldnt have to hunt out the business?
    Based on THIS all marketing and advertising would be sleazy not just cold calling and direct sales. Chances are he doesn't mean it anyway. It's a defense mechanism people put up because nobody likes to be "sold."

    That being said, I would "defend" that the same way I always have, do, and will in the future. And that is with the following:

    "Ok. I see what you're saying. But if you're car is stalled on the railroad tracks with a train coming at you and you don't solicit my help or advice, is the ethical move for me to just let the train hit you because you didn't seek me out?"

    I would then explain to him the same thing I have explained in a lot of sales classes I have taught, and it's a very simple concept. It works like this:


    The JaceMan's 8 Simple Rules of Selling
    The first rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
    The second rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
    The third rule of sales is: ALL business starts with the sell.
    The fourth rule of sales is: Realize you're not a con artist; you're a solution finder.
    The fifth rule of sales is: PROFIT is NOT a FOUR letter word.
    The sixth rule of sales is: Ever had to tell your child no more than once? Yeah, make your customers do the same to you.
    The seventh rule of sales is: The customer will continue to benefit from the deal long after the commission is spent.
    The eighth rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.


    See, I believe if you keep these 8 simple rules close to your heart you won't be able to avoid success. The fact of the matter is, if you believe in what you're selling, then you have a moral and ethical obligation to share that chance or opportunity with other people. To have knowledge of something that can benefit them in some way and keep that to yourself would be selfish at best.

    Hope that helps!
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    • Profile picture of the author HappyGayleen
      Originally Posted by JaceBarnett View Post

      Based on THIS all marketing and advertising would be sleazy not just cold calling and direct sales. Chances are he doesn't mean it anyway. It's a defense mechanism people put up because nobody likes to be "sold."

      That being said, I would "defend" that the same way I always have, do, and will in the future. And that is with the following:

      "Ok. I see what you're saying. But if you're car is stalled on the railroad tracks with a train coming at you and you don't solicit my help or advice, is the ethical move for me to just let the train hit you because you didn't seek me out?"

      I would then explain to him the same thing I have explained in a lot of sales classes I have taught, and it's a very simple concept. It works like this:


      The JaceMan's 8 Simple Rules of Selling
      The first rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
      The second rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
      The third rule of sales is: ALL business starts with the sell.
      The fourth rule of sales is: Realize you're not a con artist; you're a solution finder.
      The fifth rule of sales is: PROFIT is NOT a FOUR letter word.
      The sixth rule of sales is: Ever had to tell your child no more than once? Yeah, make your customers do the same to you.
      The seventh rule of sales is: The customer will continue to benefit from the deal long after the commission is spent.
      The eighth rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.


      See, I believe if you keep these 8 simple rules close to your heart you won't be able to avoid success. The fact of the matter is, if you believe in what you're selling, then you have a moral and ethical obligation to share that chance or opportunity with other people. To have knowledge of something that can benefit them in some way and keep that to yourself would be selfish at best.

      Hope that helps!
      I was going to write about how if you believe in what you're selling and know if will help someone you do them a DISSERVICE by not telling them about it. You said it so well. I will be quoting you to my sales consultants. I love your 8 rules. Thank you for your post!
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    There isn't anything happening in a sales phone call that isn't also happening on a postcard, an email or any other kind of advertising.

    The word ignorant doesnt even begin to describe how far behind the 8-ball your pal is.

    I would invite him to go learn how to be a telemarketer...he will gain a whole new appreciation for the art....and he wil come to understand it IS an art. He will see there is nothing sleazy about it. Its a very logical process.

    This whole idea of waiting for customers to decide they need you...is about the stupidest thing I can fathom.

    If he walked into a town with 2355 business in..knowing full well that every single one of them would benefit from his services, whatever they may be...what is he going to do, put up a website and get himself ranked on local Google..then sit...and wait...and hope?

    I can tell you this....you can make 20 calls a day...and still reach FAR MORE people than will ever see him on a search engine. Regardless of any of those calls hooking a sale for a while..YOU STILL are getting exposure...people know you exist.

    The amount of people that actually go looking for something is a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of the amount of people that still actually need what your selling.

    The guy who figures out how to get to the rest of all those people first, is the guy who wins.

    There is only one thing Ive ever seen that has rivaled or surpassed successes I've seen or done with direct mail campaigns...and that is, telemarketing campaigns.

    DP
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    All the big-swinging you-know-whats call cold over the phone or in person.

    Talked with a personal lines producer at breakfast this morning. There's a 28 year old killing it in commercial insurance about 50 miles away from where I live. Pulls down a half-mil a year in commissions.

    How does he do it? He picks up the phone book and dials. No leads, no SEO. Cold calls.

    All the top-rated publicly-traded sales organizations like Aramark, Cintas, all Med Device companies, software reps. Guess what sleazy sh*t they're doing?

    Cold-calling.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      All the big-swinging you-know-whats call cold over the phone or in person.

      Talked with a personal lines producer at breakfast this morning. There's a 28 year old killing it in commercial insurance about 50 miles away from where I live. Pulls down a half-mil a year in commissions.

      How does he do it? He picks up the phone book and dials. No leads, no SEO. Cold calls.

      All the top-rated publicly-traded sales organizations like Aramark, Cintas, all Med Device companies, software reps. Guess what sleazy sh*t they're doing?

      Cold-calling.
      Good points Reardon, on another note:

      Once you are free, you want to share it! Abraham Maslows pyramid says that...: once we achieve liberation our desire most generally turns to "contribution",

      I take this as an indication that you have achieved some liberation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fox30
    IMHO...cold calling is an art and some of the biggest companies have become by cold calling.

    Cold calling does not mean that you have to lie to the prospect. With cold calling, you still have to find a benefit for your prospect that your product or service will be able to provide.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I dont give a flying you know what if someone thinks it's sleazy. I'll continue making money why they continue trying to learn how to make money.

    Don't bother defending it... it doesn't matter. What matters is the end result.

    I'm doing companies a favor by reaching out to them, because without me, they would be stuck in their old ways and being a victim of mediocrity.
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      The post certainly generated a lot of chatter. Unfortunately this has to be one of those "hidden assets" post. You know hidden asset as in a spy lurks among us.

      Probably works for some terrorist group that plans on bombing every TM room in the world plus John Durham's home office. Ouch, hate losing you John.

      Give me an effing break - defend??? - the jerk who made the remark, if he is a real person, probably uses scented toilet paper. Aaarrrgghhh matey, no use for those types. Make him walk the plank.

      OK, I'm back. The meds don't wear off as fast as they use to...

      No need to defend anything when you are talking to a fool. In fact, you want to get as far away as possible so people don't get you two confused.

      Just my 2¢...

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

        The post certainly generated a lot of chatter. Unfortunately this has to be one of those "hidden assets" post. You know hidden asset as in a spy lurks among us.
        Glad you said it. If "I" had said it, it would have looked like I just have conspiracy thinking. But...uh....Yeah.

        Someone is (not so secretly) checking up on the general "Offline" public opinion of their behavior and premise.

        4,000 posts teaches you a few things; you see alot of scenarios---but, again; Im glad YOU said it Tom.

        I hope they got the message they were looking for.
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        • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Glad you said it. If "I" had said it, it would have looked like I just have conspiracy thinking. But...uh....Yeah.

          Someone is (not so secretly) checking up on the general "Offline" public opinion of their behavior and premise.

          4,000 posts teaches you a few things; you see alot of scenarios---but, again; Im glad YOU said it Tom.

          I hope they got the message they were looking for.
          John,

          This is a pure BS post, IMHO, that doesn't even rate an answer now that I think about it. Of course the other guy can think cold calling is sleazy. It is his right as a natural human being to think whatever the hell he wants to think.

          The question then becomes why was it made? Don't know but it sure does smell.

          Not calling out anyone or pointing any fingers.

          Just my 2¢...

          Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

      Well since we are on a marketing forum, full to the brim with marketing techniques, I would first like to point to the fact that there are hundreds of ways to "make sales" and "kill it" online.

      Cold calling is just some peoples preference. A primitive preference at that. Sure, people say that they rake it in by cold calling. More power to them. All they are doing is making their own businesses look like weaker stuff compared to others that use more intelligent forms of marketing.

      The reason i refer to cold calling as primitive, because what you are actually doing is phoning someone and asking them to give you some money. Literally, that is what you are doing. Now imagine someone you dont know, an absolute stranger, phoning your phone and asking you for some of your hard earned money. What would your reaction be? I'd imagine you'd be a little disgusted, irritated, annoyed.. those types of feelings..

      Of course companies like ATT cold call. Like I said there are NUMEROUS marketing methods. The most successful companies USE THEM ALL. So that's not to say that they get the lion's share of their customer's through cold calling because whether you'd like to admit it or not, cold calling just isn't that effective.

      Companies like ATT get the BULK of their customers through advertising. (TV, RADIO, MAGAZINES, PR, SPONSORSHIP, BILLBOARDS, DIRECT MAIL, POSTCARDS) They don't just pick up some telephones to make cold calls, and even if that was the only thing they did OFCOURSE they would be successful at it. They are a billion dollar company. At any one time they could have a building full of people making these supposed cold calls at the rate of 100 calls per minute. The average warrior forum member could NEVER achieve these numbers... they would have to make these calls all by themselves averaging maybe 50 calls a week at best. (How many clients do you realistically think you'd get by doing that) maybe 1 every odd month.. if your lucky.

      The long and short of it is that you could seriously do much greater things with your time. Cold calling is not the be all and end all of anything to be honest. But if that's what you prefer to spend you days doing, you know, annoying business owner's, pissing off gatekeepers, and getting the phone slammed down on you all day then go ahead.

      All that means is I'll have more clients to ever so diligently scoop up

      Good way to heat up a thread. Im not biting- too "primitive".

      Now that the purpose has been outed, by our friend Sandalwood, the troll will try to start asking for people to feed it, because it sees the fire dying as the question has been answered.

      It will be interesting to see the twist they use to play this one out... Strike one- Adrian didnt work.
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Adrian,

        You made this remark:

        "The long and short of it is that you could seriously do much greater things with your time."

        If you don't mine enlightening the unwashed masses, what greater things - just tell us 3 - are you doing with your time? I'd love to get off the phone. I seriously hope just one of your greater things produces at least as much money.

        Just asking since you volunteered your expertise.

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            How about ANSWERING my phone.. Note the keyword 'ANSWERING' my phone to several prospects daily.

            3 things? I do it all. Mobile marketing, email marketing, newspapers, classifieds, direct mail, networking, PPC. just to list a few. I guess you don't have the time to employ any of these methods. too busy cold calling i suppose..:rolleyes:

            Do you know why your phone doesn't ever ring? Do you know why you don't have prospects coming to you for your services? Well, apart from the fact that you keep you lines engaged by bugging business owners with your cold calls.. You just don't GET what marketing is.

            You see, I am not a salesman. Not at all. But I close numerous sales daily. I am a marketer.. I can market anything whether it be SEO, PPC or some old lady's earrings. Can you?

            I'm not knocking Cold Callers.. They are just a mis-informed bunch of people, who will never understand the negative effects of cold-calling until they are on the receiving end. But I am knocking cold calling. I won't spend my whole day crank calling people because, logically, i can employ other tactics that take half the time but rake in double the about of leads.. go figure
            Well I am personally a salesman AND a marketer... and if you reread your post you are going to see all of that false superior Nazi talk that is so stereotypical its not funny- its almost like you are TELLING who your favorite teachers are just by your language of hierarchy...

            The fact is, that if I had two people with 15 posts saying they got sales from cold calling, it might be a plant- but there are TWO HUNDRED people doing it in ONE sub forum!

            That makes it a rule and not an exception.

            Show me some newbies making weekly sales off what you are teaching there.

            I can sell ole ladies earrings all day long on the internet, have sold HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars without picking up a phone online...

            BUT...
            Cold calling is still the way to sell online services to brick and morter businesses and nothing else tops it.

            Sure there are other ways to draw some business here and there,...but if you want predicable numbers and if you want to be able to make projections, better not be passive. All the MAJOR companies know that.


            ...But their CEO's are probably just "primitive"....you should probably call them and tell them that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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              • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                WOW.. I'd like to re-state a point I made earlier. I am not a salesman, but I close numerous sales daily.. Because I am a MARKETER. I'm not knocking you, even the most persistent of cold callers wouldn't be able to gauge the intelligence in that sentence.

                Cold Calling is the "Best Method"..

                To be honest, I hang around marketers all day and that has to be the first time I have seen those two phrases in the same sentence.

                People Cold Call when they have no other choice. People turn to Cold Calling when they are selling some half baked, no-good product that a customer would never in his lifetime think of seeking out on his own accord. You know, like used carpets.. Pre-owned tumble dryers.. those types of things.

                If you are not the owner or employee of a multi million dollar company then you really have no business making cold calls. That space isn't for you. A lone cold caller is doing nothing but, excuse my french, 'Pissing in the wind'. You are literally like a dog chasing his own tail.

                These large corporations can make hundreds of thousands of calls in a day. And they normally operate from numerous locations, bringing that number to millions of calls.. daily.

                A lone cold caller could make a 100 calls a day and still be wasting their time. Just think about how long it takes to make 100 calls. Every day.. When during that time you could be putting up some ads.. slapping some direct mail together.. sending out some postcards.. distributing some flyers.. ALL in the same day. This is what I do, and I consistently get 50+ phone calls every day and I know many others do also.

                If you want to keep cold calling go ahead. Im not here to stop you. I'm just letting you know that if you actually wish to someday have more than that 1 client.. there are many other methods to put into use
                Adrian,

                This answer says it all. You have a bias and you don't wish to move off it. No big deal. Keep it and continue with what you know.

                I do have one suggestion. Stop insulting people you don't know or haven't met. Your preconceived judgment screams volumes about you. Remember for every finger you point, you have at least three pointing back at you.

                You believe your methods are the best and they may be for you. Others don't see it that way. Nobody on this thread even mentioned you in an earlier post nor did they insult you.

                You came on and blasted away. I'm sure you are the man in Seabrook and I'll concede that. What I will also say is with your attack and destroy attitude you won't last long.

                That's it. I'm done. Not gonna banter w/a blatantly biased individual.

                Tom
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              • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
                Did everyone or anyone catch this statement?

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                WOW.. I'd like to re-state a point I made earlier. I am not a salesman...
                Adrian has stated for the record that he IS NOT a salesman.

                In other words he does not have the skills to, "One call; one close."

                He is admitting that he does not have the skills to pick up a phone and starting from scratch, close deals on DAY 1!

                Which, most likely means he is an order taker?

                Sort of like the people who take orders at McDonalds?

                Would that be a correct assessment?

                I'm just asking to better understand his position since he admitted that he IS NOT a salesman..:confused:

                The glaring question would be, "Since you ARE NOT a salesman, why would you attempt to convince experienced and successful salesmen who can, "One call; one close" to stop doing what you clearly failed at?

                That makes no sense.

                That's like Ryan Leaf tryng to convince Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Drew Brees, that they cannot win a Super Bowl in the NFL.

                Just curious.
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                • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                  • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                    Okay Adrian

                    You don't like or do cold calling yourself. No problem, neither do I.

                    But I am not hostile to the concept so could I ask why are you?

                    You have written you have employed and disposed of more salespeople than we could imagine.

                    I have never in my life used the word 'disposed'

                    And neither would Bill Gates or Donald Trump or Richard Branson or pretty much anybody in business.

                    So what is the reason for your hostility?

                    Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                        Oh please. Business is not this fairly tale type of thing that you think it is. Personel gets picked up and dropped quicker then you'd imagine.
                        Adrian

                        I part owned the largest Educational Support Company in the UK.

                        I don't require a business lesson from you.

                        I am perfectly aware that staff come and go all the time.

                        What I am asking you is why you use the word 'dispose' and why you are so vitriolic in your posts regarding cold calling sales.

                        As mentioned earlier I don't do the cold calling myself but we did it as a company. Just not to the end user that's all. We targeted the enablers.

                        Dan
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                        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                        John Durham and Iamnameless both had no ammo left for this debate. They just could not defend cold calling. There is a reason for that.

                        I have tons of ammo, you just arent worth wasting it on. Itll be easier just to ignore you till you hang yourself , as all your kind do in short order. Not that it matters, your user name has no value to you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief


                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    Before you jump to conclusions, you know nothing about my businesses or what I do. If you did you'd put your crank calling to a hault and beg me to teach you the ways of an intelligent marketer.
                    You stated that I know nothing about your business or what you do.

                    Correction, your conduct in this thread has told me everything about you and your business that I need to know.

                    We can't wait until your WSO is launched, LOL.

                    And now you can return to your regular scheduled condescending, blissfully arrogant, high and mighty portrayal of yourself.

                    And just so you know, we believe everything that you are saying and selling < Not!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay Tom wants to play "mangle the opposition"- this ought to be fun to watch.

    Sure, enlighten us dumb folks "Username known as Adrian".
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Okay Tom wants to play "mangle the opposition"- this ought to be fun to watch.

      Sure, enlighten us dumb folks "Username known as Adrian".
      I re-read the post (Adrian's) and it is so full of air it doesn't make sense. Look at TV ads. Are they the purest form of cold call or what? I mean they just telephone right into your space w/o bothering to ask. Geeshhh...

      Oh and adsense isn't cold calling. Nah, can't be. It's on the Internet. They don't appear on every freaking web page, even my sites so I better add that.

      We both would love to have a slam dunk in our pocket and never have to go near the phone again. Think of the vacation you could have even in TX, forgot the city.

      Yep, you could charge max $$$ for a WSO, appear on all the TV and Radio shows as the newest latest guru on sales. Corps would be lined up to buy you and sell Tony Robbins. I can't wait for the 3 better things.

      Just sayin'...

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Adrian,

        In part you said,

        "3 things? I do it all. Mobile marketing, email marketing, newspapers, classifieds, direct mail, networking, PPC. just to list a few. I guess you don't have the time to employ any of these methods. too busy cold calling i suppose.."

        It was nice of you to list what you do and to admit you cold call as well (direct mail, networking) but you didn't answer the question. The 3 things I asked for were things you said were better. You merely listed alternatives to the phone with which anyone can argue is "better" till the cows come back to TX.

        There's even an idiot on the Internet who says cold calling is dead. The first thing he advises is a cold calling alternative to cold calling. He says to do a mailing. If that isn't cold calling, well, I give up.

        So, when you finish looking down your nose at the inbreds, please extend us a helping hand up. We'd like to smell the air from your vantage point. We don't want to take your space, you rightly deserve it. We just want a glimpse at what you see.

        But, if you can't answer the question, that's OK too. The Salvation Army will always be there to feed us.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Guys -- please don't try to convince these folks otherwise that cold calling is actually effective.

    I really don't need the competition.

    Oh yeah, got another cold calling success example:

    Dude 30 miles north of me sells the same insurance lines as I do -- 2 years ago he decided to stop spending $1000 to $1250 weekly on direct mail business reply pieces to generate leads.

    Instead, he started cold calling.

    Results? 300 Medicare Supplements sold (First year commissions $75k, not including the same level of commissions for the next 5 years each year), 180 or so life insurance policies sold ($140k first year commissions, not including around $10-$15 commissions years 2-10), and about $75k in annuity sales.

    $250k-$350k in first year commissioned business (NOT including the hundreds of thousands of renewal income he'll make each successive year the policy stays on the books) -- all from... wait for it... cold calling old people?
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        Great creative writing.. Ever looked into writing fictional pieces?

        You'd do just perfect.
        You should know, only yours isnt that creative it sounds like you just copy and pasted a bunch of your wealth mentor's material . Or maybe you ARE him....Who knows.

        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        What's there to hate. You can't even defend the very thing you're promoting.
        You only have to "defend" things that arent "proven" already
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Guys -- please don't try to convince these folks otherwise that cold calling is actually effective.

      I really don't need the competition.

      Oh yeah, got another cold calling success example:

      Dude 30 miles north of me sells the same insurance lines as I do -- 2 years ago he decided to stop spending $1000 to $1250 weekly on direct mail business reply pieces to generate leads.

      Instead, he started cold calling.

      Results? 300 Medicare Supplements sold (First year commissions $75k, not including the same level of commissions for the next 5 years each year), 180 or so life insurance policies sold ($140k first year commissions, not including around $10-$15 commissions years 2-10), and about $75k in annuity sales.

      $250k-$350k in first year commissioned business (NOT including the hundreds of thousands of renewal income he'll make each successive year the policy stays on the books) -- all from... wait for it... cold calling old people?
      Rearden,

      Apaprently that doesn't work in Seabrook. Don't know that for sure, just guessing based on a post I read.

      Oh, almost forgot, that's how we built our ins agency. All the direct mail we sent out produced zero policies but they were professionally produced by a large ins co. Didn't come from a home office marketer who isn't a salesman. That must be the difference.

      Just my 2¢...

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

          Sandalwoods,

          I guess your all out of positive facts to bring forward about cold calling then? There just isn't that many is there?.. figures

          Shame.. was expecting a much more challenging debate.

          How many positive facts do you need..?

          It makes sales, and its the way big businesses do business... You want an encylo[pedia?

          I know in your world BIG words like "conglomeration" and detailed college text book theories make points, but in ours only SALES do.

          This very question shows the nature of what your group is about...

          You want more fancy words. Simple results driven lean mean answers dont satisfy your ego.
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          • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


              I actively make high volumes of sales every day. and I don't cold call.
              That remains to be confirmed, but one thing that DOESNT, is that there are a ton of people around here doing it with cold calls.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Funny stuff.

    Wish Adrian would get on his real user name, or at least go by his real name instead of a fake one. For someone that does so much marketing, there is no record of him existing aside from trolling these threads.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        Says IamNameLess :rolleyes:

        If you want to debate this cold calling stuff lets do it. Although you'd struggle, it seems everything that can be said about that sleazy practice has been.
        I'm not using a FAKE NAME... I'm using a USER NAME... and people here know my full name. If you're successful, prove it. Stop using fake names to troll on a message board on the same topics. Loser.

        I don't care if you think it's sleazy. You're a nobody that is pretending to have a full marketing strategy in action but haven't made a sale in your life. Nice FAKE picture too... lame.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            Where is this coming from.

            How did a debate about cold calling turn into a tirade of insults?

            Not surprised... It's just like a cold caller to turn to throwing his toys out of the push chair when things don't go his way.
            I just think it's funny that you have to create a 2nd user name in order to feel big and bad and not let anyone know who you REALLY are. It isn't an insult, it is true. I think someone that has to create fake names with fake pictures, is someone that has an awful life and have achieved little success.

            I do more MARKETING than you can even PRETEND to do. I do cold calling, yes... but I also run a REAL marketing campaign, which you only claim to do.

            Once again, you're just here to troll, and offer no value. You have no experience, you don't have the GUTS to get on your main user name, you don't have the guts to use your own picture or your own name.... and you don't have the guts to make calls.

            Take it as an insult... you're too sensitive to be a marketer, which is increasingly apparent.
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            • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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              • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                You seem highly strung.. Is it the caffiene or the numerous rejections from those cold calls?
                No, it's probably because I have paid more in transaction fees this year than you have ever made in your life.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                  No, it's probably because I have paid more in transaction fees this year than you have ever made in your life.
                  ROTFLMAO
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                • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    That too, is yet to be confirmed.

                    If that was the case, you wouldn't be in here defending that shameful form of marketing that is cold calling.

                    You would be complaining about the amount of cold calls that YOU recieve because people would actually want you as their own high-paying customer.

                    But that isn't the case is it. Which is why your on here, cranky as ever because some business owner barred your phone number
                    I've posted screen shots of my bank account, you accused me of photoshopping it, even though it was through awesomescreenshot the firefox add on.

                    Why would I be complaining about receiving cold calls? I'm on the phone too much to receive them, between cold calling and talking to my current clients, my phone isn't free long enough, but nice try buddy.
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


                    If that was the case, you wouldn't be in here defending that shameful form of marketing that is cold calling.

                    Oh yeah, NOW all the experienced pro's are nodding in agreement Adrian. You are a smart guy arent you?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    "Primitive" isnt an insult?
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Another "funny" thing... is how Adrian claims to do classifieds, ppc, direct mailing, etc. etc. However..... he NEVER shows up in ANY thread about those things. He only shows up to bash cold calling.

    I have given help to others with SEO, Google Places/local, PPC, Email Marketing, Cold Calling, Direct Mailing, Craigslist and other classifieds...Why aren't you if you're capable of doing any of these things?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Another "funny" thing... is how Adrian claims to do classifieds, ppc, direct mailing, etc. etc. However..... he NEVER shows up in ANY thread about those things. He only shows up to bash cold calling.
      Am I not saying this?

      Adrian is living up to every stereotype of his type... we may even know who he is already judging from his linguistic patterns. Not nearly as smart as he thinks.

      There are a few around here (Fakes) that Im ignoring....
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Adrian is living up to every stereotype of his type... we may even know who he is already judging from his linguistic patterns. Not nearly as smart as he thinks.
        Yeah, I have a pretty good idea right now... I thought I knew on the last thread he was trolling.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          Yeah, I have a pretty good idea right now... I thought I knew on the last thread he was trolling.
          If you think that just keep watching, they are so stupidly easy to fish out, the problem is that there are so many (even though most of them are probably the same guy) that the only thing you can do is continue to speak truth and hope as many newbies as possible dont fall for the bull...

          Then some like Reardon will pop up later and say "I cant believe I bought all that cold calling is sleazy stuff...I didnt have any sales, but now I do".

          6 months after following guys like this they are still scratching their head trying to figure out what "conglomerate" means...but they are acting like they DO know, so none of the other Nazi's will think they are primitive.

          If Tom hadnt call it out I would have ignored this, but its a good lesson for some.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I dont promote anything. Im very proud of that. People come to my forum by either referal or by being interested in what Im saying and clicking themselves. I have never solicted a single opt in,.

    Hater. Lol

    You guys dont even bother me anymore, you are just funny.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        What's there to hate. You can't even defend the very thing you're promoting.

        Don't waste your time responding to this. I have no wish to argue with people that think it's right to feed lies to others.

        You spend more time on this forum trying to find members than you do making these "sales" you speak of.. scammers.
        You mean you have no wish to get fished out till we find your other usernames. I understand. This is bad publicity.CYA

        Oh! On your other point:

        Yeah, 200 people on my list got sales last year but Im a scammer. i have a verifiable track record a mile long in the offline world that has even been confirmed several times by YOUR kind, in attempt to do what you are doing. They even tried to crash my forum that you seem to hate.

        I still stand.

        Later hater.
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  • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
    Personally John, I find it so comical that "Adrian" thinks you never do anything for anyone and have nothing to say about that which you are a master at...you are the reason I am on the fast track to success, and I know I am not alone.

    Pretty sure he must be blind... or just blissfully...ig... well you know... whatever.
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  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
    The accusation at hand may not need to be "defended," but I still think my 8 Simple Sales Rules is the answer. In general, the question isn't really about which form of prospecting is "sleazy." What is or isn't sleazy has nothing (or certainly very little) to do with how you got your list of people to call on or how you choose to reach them... nope what really defines what is sleazy or not depends on whether or not you're marketing something you do or don't believe in and whether or not your product or service has any value for those you're marketing to.

    If what you have can benefit someone else, there is NOTHING sleazy about putting it in front of them, regardless of the medium.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Did you guys read post #4 in the thread? Why waste time
    with this arrogant punk?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Did you guys read post #4 in the thread? Why waste time
      with this arrogant punk?
      Sorry brother, you are right. Usually are. I hope someone learns from our outing him though.

      Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

      Don't feed the troll Durham. You've been on the internet long enough to know that.
      Aight, aight. I hear ya.
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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    Don't feed the troll Durham. You've been on the internet long enough to know that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wallz
    If cold callings sleazy so is asking a girl on a date.
    They can either say yes or no.
    We'll survive either way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        WOW Cold Callers...
        Is there some reason, other than obvious trolling and poop disturbing, that you continue to use the term "Cold Callers" like you're slinging mud and calling people names?

        Seriously sir, straw man arguments accomplish nothing. You can either debate the merits of an argument and then offer a counter-point; you can surrender your position; or you can agree to disagree and walk away. But to engage in slander or avoid mounting an actual argument by instead deflecting anything said and pointing at squirrels running through the yard while looking down your nose at people neither makes you a forensics specialist nor endears you to anyone.

        While you might have a future in politics (Talk about sleazy!) ahead of you, I'm not sure your mantle will be loaded down by a tremendous number of debate trophies nor do I suspect you'll have all that many friends passing through to look at them if you did. Seriously sir, you might consider having open dialog to solve problems rather than instigating "riots" by slinging insults and reducing yourself to name calling. Besides that, your insults aren't very powerful considering most people here are proud to wear the moniker of "cold caller" since for us it means "community helper."

        In conclusion let me just say that as a pastor (which is one of the many hats I wear) we have another name for "cold calling" in the clergy. We call it... OUTREACH. And while I didn't come here to preach a sermon or to change everyone else's ideology or faith what I will say is this... a "church" (a group of like-minded people) that doesn't exercise outreach is dead and doesn't believe what their mouths profess. They say one thing, but they live another. If you asked me, those people would look an awful lot like the description of FALSE PROPHETS.

        So my dear friend, if you're here to save us from ourselves and the evils and woes of cold calling that's a fine mission if it is one you truly believe in. But you might find more success by utilizing a little more tact and a little less flame. Trust me when I say that your audience's ears will close 100 out of 100 times if you choose to serve them vinegar instead of honey. Don't take my word for it? So be it; just ask any cold caller.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            Although I personally wouldn't like to be known as a Cold Caller, that is hardly 'name calling' now is it?
            Oh but if only you could read... I didn't say that "Cold Caller" was name calling. What I said was that you're tossing it around as though that's your purpose... to get under the skin of the people you're talking to. So that's exactly what you're TRYING to do is name calling. As I said towards the end of my commentary though, you're just not very good at it.

            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            I have called no names. All I have done is present my side of the argument. I am yet to receive any tangible counter arguments. Why do you think that is?
            You can see what I said above for my response to the name calling portion. As to the other, I have read every single one of your posts, and I haven't seen you present very much of anything. There have been bits and pieces here and there, but by large all you have presented is why those with countering view points are wrong. And your "proof" that they are wrong hasn't amounted to much more than you don't like the practice.

            In terms of tangible counter arguments... you have received several analogies (the "cold call" date that you brushed aside was one of many good ones) that compare cold calling businesses to other daily initiated practices which you choose to dismiss. You have received tangible offers of examples of successful companies that choose to cold call. You have received tangible examples from Warriors own experiences as well.

            So "why" are you "yet" to receive "any" tangible counter arguments? Well I assume that is due to the fact that you're skipping over people's responses; either that, or you haven't received any counter arguments due to the fact that you haven't given anything to really counter.

            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            I have made thousands of dollars of sales today and have meetings scheduled. Living proof that my methods produce more results than crank calling.
            Congratulations on your success! I'm not sure that counts as living proof that your methods produce MORE results than "crank calling" (again another example of straw man arguing and insulting devoid of a purpose) though. After all to quantify as MORE doesn't one need to SHOW their results (not just claim them), but even more importantly SHOW their results COMPARED to others? You can hardly claim that the thousands of dollars you have made so far today makes your methods more effective than cold calling unless you can also prove that no cold callers have already made thousands of dollars today.

            Are you prepared to speak on my own successes this morning? How about the successes of others?

            No sir, I am afraid your definition of MORE also qualifies as a straw man argument because it is unsubstantiated. I mean I can go right out and claim anything, but that doesn't make my claims tangible, to use a word from your own vocabulary.

            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            The response you have just given is void of anything relevant to the topic at hand.
            Really? Cause I found it, as well as my 8 Simple Rules, to be incredibly relevant. Not only did it contain wisdom, but it offered much more friendly advice to YOU than you seem to be getting from most of my "co-horts." And yes I purposely used the term cohorts to give you ammunition. Hopefully you will choose to exercise a little class and not leech onto it, but we shall see.
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            • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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              • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                Another disgruntled cold caller. Fresh from another proposal rejection are we?
                Nope, but assumptions always work well. Don't they?

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                How many people have told you not to phone their establishment again this morning?
                This morning? Zero.

                In mornings past? Several.

                What's you'r point?

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                You have displayed that you are a skilled name caller and digressed from the main topic to demonstrate your hate for "straws-men" but how about you present some cold hard facts?
                I already have. Search the forum, but if you're too lazy, here are a few cold hard facts.

                1. I do not rely solely on cold calling.
                2. I would never recommend that any business rely on a single source of lead generation.
                3. I track various metrics on each of my sources of lead generation.
                4. The FACTS you give below (which we will get into a minute) aren't facts.
                5. In 2011, in my most profitable local niche (business marketing and coaching) I earned over $210,000 from cold calling. That's a single niche. One lead generation funnel. And limited time.
                6. FACT - I am NOT on pace to match that figure again this year.
                7. 6 was called honesty.
                8. I haven't put as much time into cold calling on that niche this year as I did last year either.
                9. I'm open to using any and all honest, legal, and ethical methods to help people.
                10. I'm open to any and all honest, legal and ethical methods to financially help myself.

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                How about you talk about the FACT that only 1% of cold calls actually lead to a sale. And that is only if you are a skilled cold caller. People that are just starting out havn't even the slightest chance.
                FACT - I see much better than 1% results. I did even when I first started out. But even if your fact was factual, I still don't understand your point. What's the reason to eliminate cold calling? Fear of rejection? I'm ok with, "No." And I'm ok with "No," because I track everything.

                I know that in this niche, every "Yes" I get is worth an average of $2,346 to me. For every sale I have made in the past three years (this part is actually a whole lot better in 2012 since I started using seminars in my sales funnel) I have had to do 2.3 presentations. For every presentation I have given, I have had to set 1.4 appointments. And for every 1 appointments I have set, I had to do 7.1 initial contacts (keeping in mind these are my stats from cold calling in person and not over the phone).

                So what all does this mean to me? Well at $2,346 that means that every hand I have shaken or business owner I have introduced myself to has made me $102.62. And it is for this reason that rejection doesn't bother me. I don't focus on my "wins" because I know that each loss is still "money in my pocket."

                Sure, only 1 out of every 23 of those owners have given me any money, but all 23 wound up hearing about me.

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                Why dont you bring attention to the FACT that only 5% of business leads that you reach through cold calling convert into a sale.
                Again my own metrics don't support your "FACT" but then again, I'm not even sure your preceding fact supports this one.

                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                Or is that not what you came here to do?
                Is what not what I came here to do?
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                • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
                    Alright friend. Lets break this down once more for you, and then I'm done. So if you choose to respond to this then all I can say is, "Congratulations, you had the last word! You win!" If what you're after is beating a group into submission with negativity you will have succeeded.

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    You aren't making any sense. Line after line you contradict yourself.
                    Don't SAY that I contradicted myself. SHOW me the contradictions.

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    You openly admit to having several owners ban you from making phonecalls to their establishment? Now do you see why I refer to this as Crank Calling? I have never been barred from delivering any of my direct mail, or distributing my flyers. Or putting up classifieds.. Or from anything else..
                    Yeah I admitted that several owners have "banned" me from calling their establishment. But a request to not call them doesn't turn a sales call into a "crank" call. That doesn't mean they banned me from contacting them. Which is nice segue to something that you seem to be doing a good job of somehow missing. Because you don't seem to know what therms crank call or cold call actually mean.

                    I think something you need to do is to define the term "cold call."

                    You talk about direct mail and flyer distribution. Well, news flash... depending on how you're distributing those flyers or how your obtaining the list of people to solicit with direct mail, you are, IN FACT, cold calling. It's not a cold call because there is a phone attached to your head. What makes a prospect a cold call is having no previous relationship with that lead and having not been referred to them. THAT is what a cold call is.

                    I distribute flyers all the time. I send out direct mail as well. In most cases I distribute these flyers to people I do not have a current business relationship with. With direct mail I sometimes send out solicitations to current customers (that would not be a cold call) and at other times I send them to a fresh list of new leads. Those new leads WOULD BE a "cold call." Nothing has changed except for the medium through which I am making contact.

                    All of that being said... let me rewind for just a second, so that I'm addressing all of your "points." With regards to being asked not to call someone again, I don't see that as a bad thing at all. In fact, I would argue that being told not to call only helps my marketing efforts to be more efficient in both time and money in the future. For instance, if a business owner says, "I'm not interested. Take me off your list." Ok great... FANTASTIC! That's one less person for me to contact tomorrow. Meanwhile when they receive your direct mail or flyer, they still might have that same, "Not interested... leave me a lone!" attitude in receiving your solicitation. But instead of telling you to move on, they instead opt to throw your mailing in the garbage can.

                    *shrugs* Big deal! I don't care, cause a no is a no. But you on the other hand, since you don't know that you have gotten under their skin already, how do you prevent yourself from throwing further fuel on the fire by reaching out to them again? How do you protect your pocketbook by not paying to have further adverts printed and mailed to this uninterested prospect?

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    Fear of rejection? what has that got to do with anything? If you re-read my posts you would see that picking up the phone to beg someone for money is something that I will never take part in. Why? Because it tarnishes the image of your business and unlike yours, my business is actually respected in this state and many others. Not for cold calling. But for producing results.
                    What fear or rejection has to do with this topic is that it is the only reason for you to poo on someone else's business practices. If you truly have a system in place that works for you that's great! Why can't you just be happy about that and continue? If you think it can help others and you want to help by sharing that information... hey that's even better! But what is your reason (or should I say motivation) for having to slam someone else or their methods instead?

                    I rationalize that you don't like "cold calling" (which you seem to think means dialing a number) because you lack the confidence to sell to a stranger or you're afraid of "No." Even if that's not the case... even if there is another reason, I think you first need to step down from your high horse and stop assuming so much about the way I, or others, run my business.

                    Let me make it clear to you, I don't call and BEG anyone for money. I don't need to do that, and I won't do that! I call and present them with an opportunity that can help them. As my 7th Rule of Selling sates: The benefit to the customer will live on long after my commission is spent. Rest assured buddy, I'm not begging anyone for anything. I'm given them a wonderful chance to improve their current lot in life/business. If they have the foresight to see it, that's great! And I'm sure glad I wasn't too bashful to give them that chance. However if they don't have that same foresight, that's fine too. I can move on from here just fine. And I can hold my head high knowing I at least gave them the same opportunity I gave everyone else. At this point, they're accountable for the "Yes" or "no."

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    One out of 23 owners gave you money? Now that seems to be less than 1%. Thanks for providing social proof to back up the facts I produced earlier. 1 out of 23 owners? so this means that 22 owners either 1. lost respect for your business.. 2. Barred your number from their phones.. 3. Told thier gatekeeper never to put Jace Barnett through again... Great way to soil your own reputation.
                    1 out of 23 seems to be less than 1%? Really? REALLY? Come on man... so you mean to tell me that not only do you not understand debate, but you also don't know how to work a calculator or understand math?

                    For the record, 1 out of 23 equates to 4.34%. 1% shouldn't even require that calculator I just mentioned. The math on that is pretty easy to do my friend. 1% would be 1 out of 100.

                    Now that we have discussed the definition of the words more and less, let me continue.

                    The 1 in 23 sales to contacts ratio doesn't mean that 22 businesses lost respect for my business, barred me from contacting them, or instructed anything similar to their gatekeeper. Again, you presume to assume way, way too much. And it surprises me that anyone who presumes so much with such a semblance of cynicism could ever get anyone excited about anything. Why do you assume that the 22 who said, "No thanks" don't now have more respect for me and my company because they see that we are OUT THERE trying to help? Why do you assume that they won't appreciate learning more about the opportunity? Why do you assume that the 22 "no's" of today won't turn into "Yes's" tomorrow? Did you never hear the parable of the farmer and the seed?

                    Heck, why is it that the 20 people out of 100 who throw your flyer or postcard in the trash have more respect for you and your company for sending them a piece of paper than they have for me and my company for actually coming to them directly?

                    But wait, it gets even more non-sensical than that. Based on your reasoning, every tv commercial that airs that the viewer doesn't like causes that person to lose respect for the company being promoted. Heck, it doesn't even have to be that bad. Maybe it's not that the commercial was bad, but maybe it just wasn't good enough to make the person CALL NOW. So every time they were asked to do that they lost respect for the product/service/company being promoted? Eeek! Everyone hide your Calls To Action now! You're going to burn every bridge before their built by giving someone an opportunity. In fact, Adrian I would highly suggest you remove your phone number, Web site URL, and email address from your flyers and postcards right now. You're going to cause an awful lot of people to lose respect for you and blacklist your company, phone, site, and email.

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    I send out 1000 Direct mails every five days and pull in more than 800 leads every single time. And that is just the amount of lead I get from DM.. Thats not including the leads I pull from Flyers, PPC, Classifieds and the rest.
                    Wow! That's pretty amazing. In fact, I would call it UNBELIEVABLE! But since I'm sure you're on the "up and up" I just have to say you need to go release a WSO RIGHT NOW with your direct mail template. In addition to making a killing from the WSO of just the template, I have an AWESOME upsell idea for you. Make sure you teach us how to make sure that 80% of the people who receive the direct mailing are not only interested, but are persuaded to act immediately before their busy and hectic schedules meet with their good intentions to follow-up causing the postcard to be buried under a stack of other "to do's" on their desk.

                    Seriously guy... if you have that recipe... I'll not only buy your WSO and your UPSELL, but I'll pay whatever price you decide to put on them. No, no I won't. I'll pay double!

                    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                    Cold Calling can not compare to any other marketing method.
                    And in closing, if you feel that way... AWESOME! Now go about your own methods and laugh at us poor schmucks who are doing it all wrong from a distance. Either that, or jump in, lend a hand, and share the wealth. Either way, I see nothing to be gained from telling others how dumb they are.

                    But hey, that's just me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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                      • Profile picture of the author fastviper
                        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


                        Order taker? Your darn right I'm an order taker. I take 100's of orders each week and my lowest priced package brings me $3000. Do the math.

                        and as for one call closing, I close more than 80% of incoming leads in just One conversation.. a figure you can NEVER acheive through cold calling.
                        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


                        I send out 1000 Direct mails every five days and pull in more than 800 leads every single time. And that is just the amount of lead I get from DM.. Thats not including the leads I pull from Flyers, PPC, Classifieds and the rest.
                        Wow, That's great. I have sold quite a bit myself, I thought I was great. But you are the man.

                        Just so I have this math straight. (cause I is not so good with the maths.)

                        On mail outs alone, You send out 1,000 mailers a week, from those mailers you get 80% to respond to you, around 800 people, and from those you close 80% so 640 people buy roughly a week.

                        And you said your lowest price package is $3,000 bucks.

                        Wow.. Please help me here, unless I am wrong, you are grossing.. $1,920,000 a week. Not including the leads coming in from PPC, Flyers, classified ads.

                        So you are roughly grossing $100 million a year.

                        And your business has something to do with seo, websites stuff which we all know has an awesome markup. So what 70% is profit.

                        So you are making 70 MILLION dollars a year roughly. Wow, just wow.


                        I will make you a deal, teach me how to do your deal and I will split it with you 50/50/ How does an extra 35 mil a year sound to you partner.

                        I have no problem helping you get to be a 100 million a year earner.

                        PM me, lets get going.




                        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

                        Just came off the phone with a realtor who agreed to a 6 month SEO contract. $4,325 in one sitting. What have YOU done today? How many people have rang your phone?
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  • Profile picture of the author s62731
    Haha this thread is just ridiculous.

    Now this is coming from someone who has followed John's advice on cold calling and made plenty of sales, but cold calling is FAR from the best way to grow your business, especially when selling MARKETING products.

    "cool your so good at marketing n stuff... why don't you just use your marketing skills to get customers?"

    Sure i've pounded the phone and made plenty of sales that way; but it's hard, tiring and ultimately not a good use of time.

    If your just starting out and need cash in your pocket ASAP, then I highly recommend cold calling. But once you get the ball rolling, there are much better ways.

    ATM I am doing between 10-15 "strategy sessions" with people wanting to get more customers and leads in their business. These people come to me through PPC.

    It costs me $100-$200/week for this. And can easily make multiple $2000 sales.

    Only 1 sale a week and I make $100,000/year. But of course with that many sessions with people who REALLY want more customers in their business, it doesn't take a genius to know I'm selling more than 1 customer a week.

    How long does it take to do 10-15 x 20 minute consultations? 5 hours. Plus about 2 hours of follow-up. So if it is ONLY 1 sale (and that would be pathetic) then that is $264/hour! ($2000 - $150 in advertising / hours spent)

    For those who think cold calling is the mother or all marketing, are just il-informed. But still, in saying that I would still hire commission hire sales people. But will never do cold calling again myself unless desperate
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Adrian,

    You mention you do direct mail ....What is your position on calling a prospect after having sent a direct mail piece to them...regardless if they responded or not, or whether you know if they even saw it or not?

    Thanks,

    DP
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Autrey
    Adrian, I guess you never got my PM's. You do offline marketing right? What kind? Could you email me more information and maybe some tips, if not cold calling?
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    The good thing about this business is that "People don't succeed cause they aim too high and miss, no, they aim too low... and hit. Most people don't aim at all." (Les Brown)

    Not us... Not marketers. We live far above mediocrity. Always keep this in mind at all times..

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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Congrats to Adrian, the votes are in and you are the winner!

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    Promise Big.
    Deliver Bigger.
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  • Profile picture of the author footballbob06
    I could understand Adrian's point. I used to be an insurance agent and I have done some cold calling when I was a customer service rep for the third biggest insurance company in this state. I hated every second of it! I personally don't really think it is unethical. I feel like there were better things I could have been doing with my time. I didn't sell one policy through cold calling as an agent probably because my script wasn't so good. I had a pretty good script when I was a customer service rep and I did get quite a few leads. I was doing it about a month and a half got the leads and I think we closed 1 sale and it was a liability only policy (and 80% of the quotes were lower price than what the person had). So it was not cost effective for the agent. I was calling peoples homes from lists we had imported. One thing you have to watch out for is the DO NOT CALL list. It can get you in trouble if you don't follow it. I will say even though I don't believe it is totally unethical I felt like crap when I did it. I didn't feel good about myself. I felt like I had gone down to the lowest point. If it was businesses we were calling I would not have felt so bad. The people there are working and usually on the clock so they usually don't care as much. I even believed in our product and had two life insurance policies at age 23 but I couldn't do these kind of sales. This was more of a personal preference, but there were times where I felt morally bad and thought I was trying to push people into things they really didn't want. This is why I am no longer in this type of sales now I'm an Accounts Receivable coordinator at a decently sized family owned heating, cooling, and metal fab shop. I love it. I think it may be more about your personality. Their were many times I hated it so much I justified it as bad. Is it really bad or unethical I don't think so as long as you are abiding by the do not call list laws, believe in the product, you would actually use the product yourself, and you are not pushing people into a corner by being overly pushy(overly pushy can mean a lot of different things to different people so it really may mean what you feel is overly pushy or sneaky). I can see this in both lights and think their are arguments on both sides to justify them.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You light in adrians posts?
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    • Profile picture of the author footballbob06
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      You light in adrians posts?
      Do I light in adrians posts? I don't even know what you mean could you be a little clearer?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    I want the direct mail campaign that returns 80%.... LOL.
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    Final Expense Agent Mentor -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    The only Adrian Browning in texas that I could find, is a pretty awful internet marketer trying to sell affiliate garbage.

    https://twitter.com/adrianbrowning

    What's your REAL name? If you run seminars in texas, you should have plenty of press about you or at least some kind of information. Right? Where is it?

    I have clients in Texas.. I also have some friends that run companies in Texas... I should be able to see some info.. why send it in PM? Share it for all of us if you REALLY do what you say you do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        When did change from a debate on cold calling to an onslaught of personal attacks?

        Haven't you anything valuable to present about Cold Calling? Have you truely run out of positive point to bring forth about Cold Calling? Of course you have. Because there isn't anything that you can say that I wont break down and discect inch by inch and proove to be false.

        Time and time again I have exposed Cold Calling as a shameless form of scavenging.. I have brought numerous facts to the table.. and time and time again you resort to personal attacks because you quite frankly aren't intelligent enough to construct a tangible counter argument.
        The reason I'm bringing it up is because you are a fraud and refuse to answer any points we make. I have had plenty to present about cold calling, I have made close to 15K THIS WEEK that was from cold calling alone. Anyone with a brain can see how cold calling can generate sales.

        NOW... PLEASE, show us PROOF that you do anything in real life aside from coming on a message board with fake user names and a fake life.

        If you do seminars, what is your name? What is the name of your business? You say you're in seabrook TX but you aren't... the only record of your name in texas is doing some affiliate marketing unsuccessfully.

        SO... SHOW PROOF you are qualified to even SPEAK about cold calling?

        What is your name?
        What is the name of your business?
        Where is the PROOF you are successful, at anything?
        If you do marketing, why don't you ever comment on threads offering value instead of insulting everyone and bashing cold calling?

        You say you do PPC, but I don't see you when searching for Pay per click management or anything in Seabrook TX.

        I don't see any marketing seminars in Seabrook tx?

        Show proof that you are anything more than a fake name with a fake pic posting on a message board.

        If you are not qualified, and have no verifiable experience, then how can you even debate the viability of cold calling to generate sales? You can't...
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            You have absolutely nothing intelligent to contribute to this discussion.
            I disagree, he outed you. IAM asked you direct questions.
            You have not answered one of them. Your just posting in circles now.

            I take that back, he did not out you. You outed your self,

            again.

            he just helped you along.

            Want to attack me now? Bring it.
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            Selling Ain't for Sissies
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            Wow this is really disgusting.

            You have absolutely no leg to stand on in this debate. So like a spanked child, you are throwing all of your toys out of the play pen. Figures.

            I would expect you to atleast demonstrate an ounce of integrity, and maybe a flash of intelligence. But you just don't have any.. you are very predictable.

            Through Cold Calling you will only EVER close 1% of your leads. So out of every 100 calls you make, you are likely to ONLY close 1 person. and that isnt even guaranteed.

            So how long does it take to make 100 calls? half a day? a whole day? a week? I hope you see where I am going with this.. Cold calling is an ineffective use of your valuable time.

            Every Monday I do my Marketing. In just ONE DAY.. I get 1000 Direct Mail pieces sent out.. I make sure to update my classified adverts. I already have radio ad running, and will do for the rest of this month. I get 1000 flyers distributed.. I can go on forever.. Now tell me, how many leads do you think i get from these activities? I can tell you it's way more than just 1? Ijust sit back all week as the phone calls and meetings flood in.

            I can't see how you are so "experienced" yet you couldn't defend cold calling even if your life depended on it. You have absolutely nothing intelligent to contribute to this discussion.
            Please answer the questions and show proof of your claims. I showed proof of my claims, where are yours?
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          The reason I'm bringing it up is because you are a fraud and refuse to answer any points we make. I have had plenty to present about cold calling, I have made close to 15K THIS WEEK that was from cold calling alone. Anyone with a brain can see how cold calling can generate sales.

          NOW... PLEASE, show us PROOF that you do anything in real life aside from coming on a message board with fake user names and a fake life.

          If you do seminars, what is your name? What is the name of your business? You say you're in seabrook TX but you aren't... the only record of your name in texas is doing some affiliate marketing unsuccessfully.


          SO... SHOW PROOF you are qualified to even SPEAK about cold calling?

          What is your name?
          What is the name of your business?
          Where is the PROOF you are successful, at anything?
          If you do marketing, why don't you ever comment on threads offering value instead of insulting everyone and bashing cold calling?


          You say you do PPC, but I don't see you when searching for Pay per click management or anything in Seabrook TX.

          I don't see any marketing seminars in Seabrook tx?

          Show proof that you are anything more than a fake name with a fake pic posting on a message board.

          If you are not qualified, and have no verifiable experience, then how can you even debate the viability of cold calling to generate sales? You can't...
          Please respond to this instead of just saying it is unintelligent and I have no leg to stand on.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

          I have done several things that you haven't. First, I explained my position and then I backed it up with cold hard facts after fact after fact. Have you?

          It isn't about convincing me. Because I have disceted every inch of everything you have said here and proven it to be unfounded, and false.

          Not once, have you made a positive contribution or defended your position on cold calling. But what you have done is throw your toys all over the floor.. and proven yourself to be nothing more than a highly imaginative name caller, and a highly predictable individual.

          I am not impressed by the utter lack of intelligence you have displayed here today, and I am sure alot of others arent also. Time and time again you have shown that you just have no leg to stand on.

          I have made several sales today from work I put in on Monday. Tell me one constructive thing you have done today, apart from crank calling hundreds of business and having the phone slammed down on you? Nothing I'd assume
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          The reason I'm bringing it up is because you are a fraud and refuse to answer any points we make. I have had plenty to present about cold calling, I have made close to 15K THIS WEEK that was from cold calling alone. Anyone with a brain can see how cold calling can generate sales.

          NOW... PLEASE, show us PROOF that you do anything in real life aside from coming on a message board with fake user names and a fake life.

          If you do seminars, what is your name? What is the name of your business? You say you're in seabrook TX but you aren't... the only record of your name in texas is doing some affiliate marketing unsuccessfully.

          SO... SHOW PROOF you are qualified to even SPEAK about cold calling?

          What is your name?
          What is the name of your business?
          Where is the PROOF you are successful, at anything?
          If you do marketing, why don't you ever comment on threads offering value instead of insulting everyone and bashing cold calling?

          You say you do PPC, but I don't see you when searching for Pay per click management or anything in Seabrook TX.

          I don't see any marketing seminars in Seabrook tx?

          Show proof that you are anything more than a fake name with a fake pic posting on a message board.

          If you are not qualified, and have no verifiable experience, then how can you even debate the viability of cold calling to generate sales? You can't...

          Stop dodging.
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  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
    I'm a pastor and finding it tough not to call this guy an idiot. I'll have to pray about that.

    And since, I told him I wouldn't respond any more, could someone else pass along the following messages for me:

    1. The definition of cold calling per wikipedia:

    Cold calling is the marketing process of approaching prospective customers or clients, typically via telephone, who were not expecting such an interaction. The word "cold" is used because the person receiving the call is not expecting a call or has not specifically asked to be contacted by a sales person.

    I fail to see how the word "typically" means that a cold call ALWAYS is made via phone. Nor do I see how handing out a flyer means that recipient did ask to be contacted.

    2. He isn't FORCING them to take the flyer. We aren't FORCING them to take the call. He isn't PREVENTING them from walking away from the conversation. We aren't PREVENTING them from hanging up. I fail to see a difference.

    3. Can you also point out to him that I didn't say that 1% of 23 was 4.34%. I said that 1 OUT OF 23 was 4.34% -- which it is. And it was 1 out of 23 that he claimed was less than 1%.

    I have no more time to mess with that clown.

    I'll continue reading (and probably laughing), but this will be the last time that I will be pressing "post" or "reply." I have businesses to run. And I have no more interest in giving away free business advice that I should be charging for to someone that doesn't appreciate it or already knows it all.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by JaceBarnett View Post

      I'm a pastor and finding it tough not to call this guy an idiot. I'll have to pray about that.

      And since, I told him I wouldn't respond any more, could someone else pass along the following messages for me:

      1. The definition of cold calling per wikipedia:

      Cold calling is the marketing process of approaching prospective customers or clients, typically via telephone, who were not expecting such an interaction. The word "cold" is used because the person receiving the call is not expecting a call or has not specifically asked to be contacted by a sales person.

      I fail to see how the word "typically" means that a cold call ALWAYS is made via phone. Nor do I see how handing out a flyer means that recipient did ask to be contacted.

      2. He isn't FORCING them to take the flyer. We aren't FORCING them to take the call. He isn't PREVENTING them from walking away from the conversation. We aren't PREVENTING them from hanging up. I fail to see a difference.

      3. Can you also point out to him that I didn't say that 1% of 23 was 4.34%. I said that 1 OUT OF 23 was 4.34% -- which it is. And it was 1 out of 23 that he claimed was less than 1%.

      I have no more time to mess with that clown.

      I'll continue reading (and probably laughing), but this will be the last time that I will be pressing "post" or "reply." I have businesses to run. And I have no more interest in giving away free business advice that I should be charging for to someone that doesn't appreciate it or already knows it all.
      You have contributed more than he can even dream of.

      Since you're a pastor, I can see how important it is to get the REAL TRUTH out, but sometimes, people like him just won't ever GET IT. His purpose here isn't to learn or help others, it is to be demeaning and just stir up drama for whatever reason it is. It isn't about really trying to convince him, he's already lost and in his own world... but your responses DO help the people who haven't even registered for this forum and just read. There are people who never respond or post a single thing, and just want to learn and when people like you speak up, they learn things that can benefit them instead of idiots like him just wanting to stir the pot.
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  • Profile picture of the author footballbob06
    Ya even though I agree with adrian on a few points and that it can be sleezy if done in the wrong way I think he is really digging himself a hole.

    If you call someone and they tell you not to call you then you definately shouldn't. I also think it is a little sneaky when the person is trying to get to the business owner and the receptionist asks who to tell the owner it is and they just give their first name, not any name of business. That kind of stuff bugs me and I think that is a little bit sketchy.

    One thing with just my experience in it is that cold calling private residences has almost went the way of the dinosaurs (especially if you are a location based company). The lists I had for insurance we had to run through the DNC. On most of our lists we probably had about 80-90% on the dnc then out of the amount that was good to call probably 40-50% were disconnected or fax numbers. Then there may be a couple numbers that already had the insurance we offered so we couldn't sell to them. So out of a list of 100 we may get 5-20 callable numbers. So it really was time consuming just to do that. Also because we were in a town 50k and maybe 100k in the surrounding 40 miles that didn't give us tons to call.

    I definately think the business cold calling is alive and well we get tons of them at my work each day. Do we ever buy almost never and we screen the calls so normally you never get to a decision maker only the voice mail and they delete it.

    So as long as you call enough people you can make sales. Its all in the script, the presentation and the product. I wish I had an 80% direct mailing. We got maybe a 1-3% with direct mailing. As insurance isn't something people like to talk about I can assume these numbers are probably much lower than some other industries. You just have to be creative.

    Ya Paragraphs look better lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

      Ya even though I agree with adrian on a few points and that it can be sleezy if done in the wrong way I think he is really digging himself a hole. If you call someone and they tell you not to call you then you definately shouldn't. I also think it is a little sneaky when the person is trying to get to the business owner and the receptionist asks who to tell the owner it is and they just give their first name, not any name of business. That kind of stuff bugs me and I think that is a little bit sketchy. One thing with just my experience in it is that cold calling private residences has almost went the way of the dinosaurs (especially if you are a location based company). The lists I had for insurance we had to run through the DNC. On most of our lists we probably had about 80-90% on the dnc then out of the amount that was good to call probably 40-50% were disconnected or fax numbers. Then there may be a couple numbers that already had the insurance we offered so we couldn't sell to them. So out of a list of 100 we may get 5-20 callable numbers. So it really was time consuming just to do that. Also because we were in a town 50k and maybe 100k in the surrounding 40 miles that didn't give us tons to call. I definately think the business cold calling is alive and well we get tons of them at my work each day. Do we ever buy almost never and we screen the calls so normally you never get to a decision maker only the voice mail and they delete it. So as long as you call enough people you can make sales. Its all in the script, the presentation and the product. I wish I had an 80% direct mailing. We got maybe a 1-3% with direct mailing. As insurance isn't something people like to talk about I can assume these numbers are probably much lower than some other industries. You just have to be creative.
      You should break this up into paragraphs. It's a little hard to read.
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    • Profile picture of the author McGruff
      Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

      If you call someone and they tell you not to call you then you definately shouldn't. I also think it is a little sneaky when the person is trying to get to the business owner and the receptionist asks who to tell the owner it is and they just give their first name, not any name of business. That kind of stuff bugs me and I think that is a little bit sketchy.
      Really? I do it all the time. My name is Mike, and I tell receptionists that routinely. If they don't ask me my company name, then that's all she gets. What bugs me are receptionists that flat out lie by telling me that John is in a meeting when he's simply screening calls. Or this gem: "Sure, John's available, can I tell him who's calling?" and then when he finds out, he's suddenly on the other line, in a meeting, stepped away from his desk. All lies.. if only providing a first name is "sketchy" what do you consider bald faced lies to be?
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      • Profile picture of the author footballbob06
        Originally Posted by McGruff View Post

        Really? I do it all the time. My name is Mike, and I tell receptionists that routinely. If they don't ask me my company name, then that's all she gets. What bugs me are receptionists that flat out lie by telling me that John is in a meeting when he's simply screening calls. Or this gem: "Sure, John's available, can I tell him who's calling?" and then when he finds out, he's suddenly on the other line, in a meeting, stepped away from his desk. All lies.. if only providing a first name is "sketchy" what do you consider bald faced lies to be?
        Why do you give just your first name? Is that because you know they will not transfer you if you do or do you just forget? That seems to me like it is a lie by omission because of your intent. A lie is only based on intent if you say something that you think is true and it is false that is bad information or just stupidity.

        Lying by omission- straight from wikipedia
        Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. When the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service, the seller lies by omission.

        You leave an important fact out which is your company name so that you will get transferred. She is assuming if you give her one name that you know the owner. Most receptionists know this and ask for the company name know and hopefully you tell them the correct business you are with.

        Yes those would be a lie by a receptionist. What would you like the receptionist to say? I think it would be good if they said he does not speak to telemarketers. If you heard this would you stop calling is the real question. Or would a hang up be better. I know at my office they will transfer you to his voicemail. So at least he can make up the decision.

        When I cold called for the insurance company if I got another person not the person we were looking for and they asked me who was calling I said "this ____ with _____ insurance". Maybe thats why I was such a bad telemarketer but I refused to do that.
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        • Profile picture of the author McGruff
          Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

          Why do you give just your first name? Is that because you know they will not transfer you if you do or do you just forget? That seems to me like it is a lie by omission because of your intent. A lie is only based on intent if you say something that you think is true and it is false that is bad information or just stupidity.

          Lying by omission- straight from wikipedia
          Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. When the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service, the seller lies by omission.

          You leave an important fact out which is your company name so that you will get transferred. She is assuming if you give her one name that you know the owner. Most receptionists know this and ask for the company name know and hopefully you tell them the correct business you are with.

          Yes those would be a lie by a receptionist. What would you like the receptionist to say? I think it would be good if they said he does not speak to telemarketers. If you heard this would you stop calling is the real question. Or would a hang up be better. I know at my office they will transfer you to his voicemail. So at least he can make up the decision.

          When I cold called for the insurance company if I got another person not the person we were looking for and they asked me who was calling I said "this ____ with _____ insurance". Maybe thats why I was such a bad telemarketer but I refused to do that.
          Well, number one, I'm NOT a telemarketer, I'm a consultant. Big difference.I actually give my full name. And it is the truth.The idea is to easily differentiate from most "script reading" telemarketers who in many cases haven't a clue as to whether their service/product is actually a good fit for the company or even of any value. All of my calls have been preceded by intense due diligence thus I KNOW that they have a need for my service, and that my service will increase their bottom line.

          Of course the idea is to come across as non-threatening with the goal of getting transferred. You act as if there's something inherently wrong with that...what's wrong with that? She can assume what she wants. I can't control assumptions. There IS no pre-existing misconception because I don't know what her conception is in the first place. The only way I would be lying is if I denied that fact, and/or told the receptionist a blatant wrong reason for why I'm calling. That's the goal - to reach the decision maker in a confident friendly manner to best let her guard down..knowing that I'm extremely confident he will be glad he took the call. I KNOW this because I KNOW I'm an asset to his profitability. Period.

          Omission only comes into play if I was asked for my company name and failed to tell her. You're simply mistaken at what constitutes a lie, (and wikipedia is not a guaranteed reliable reference by any stretch:rolleyes

          What would I like a receptionist to say?... The truth. And her guess as to the best time to reach him. And to dig deeper about my company, if she so chooses.

          I'm not sure you're grasping that the goal of first contact is to simply get through to the decision maker being confident they will be glad your call got through. If you saved me 50% by switching me to your insurance company ,,why in the world would I care that you introduced your call as footballbob??
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        • Profile picture of the author McGruff
          Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

          You leave an important fact out which is your company name so that you will get transferred. She is assuming if you give her one name that you know the owner. Most receptionists know this and ask for the company name know and hopefully you tell them the correct business you are with.
          Here's an analogy to your "omission" theory--
          To easily position a cold call with a greater chance of success I first dig to find out the owner's name (like on manta) and ask for the owner by his first name as if I know him. No big secret, it's very common...Good gatekeepers will still dig for more information, but if a not so experienced gatekeeper has the impression that I might be a friend and puts my call through I have accomplished my goal, and you would consider me a liar.

          Because... based on your reasoning,...you would consider this a "sketchy" call because to you: I lied simply because I know the owner's name and I didn't correct the gatekeeper's existing misconception that we're friends.

          That's out there like Pluto, Bob
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  • Profile picture of the author betsyanne
    I thought this would be a thread about cold calling and whether people still use it or not. I am not a professional marketer, but I have found out a bit about it on this forum. There are tips for people who want to get ahead and market their business or do it for others.

    I do have a true story, but it is an old one. During the Great Depression in the U.S. (not this recession) somebody went door to door getting clients and wound up with a great business later on, mainly because he hustled getting his first clients. Of course, it must have been really hard to do that. This was before the internet, of course, and there were still some door-to-door salesmen around.

    To me, this (door to door sales) seems a bit like cold calling, but in person instead of using a phone. Personally, I would try person to person networking or sales calls before I used the phone, just because it would seem more personal, and maybe get more results.

    Personally, I have gotten some sales calls before, and mostly they were annoying, and I wanted them to hang up usually. But you never know - - if I had needed their service and the price would have been right, I would have said for them to send some information to me about it.

    I think I still got some good information from this thread, so thanks for starting it, Sonny Am. I wouldn't go so far as to call telephone marketing sleazy, but according to some of the experts who posted here, it probably should not be a first choice for reaching people, selling, or getting clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author JOhnreal412
    to get something we have to struggle not just sit and watch.
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  • Profile picture of the author somacorellc
    Why is it that on a forum where the goal is to help each other and give advice, we have three pages of trash talking? You guys should all take a holiday. All I see is aggression, smack talking, and condescending behavior. What's the goal?

    I'm not even calling out specific people. It's pretty much everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
    This message is intended for those who want to understand why certain people are constantly attacking, bashing and denigrating cold calling and telemarketing. All you have to do is go and look at A.L. Williams for your answer.



    For those of you who don't know, A.L. Williams was what the insurance industry classified as, "Replacement Hucksters." The whole gist of the game plan of A.L. Williams was to use a strategy called, "Bum Rush Marketing" to build their business.

    In this instance, the objective of Bum Rush Marketing was to denigrate, besmirch, disparage and impugn the likes of: State Farm, All State, Hartford, Prudential, Travelers Insurance as well as other recognized insurance companies.

    The agents of A.L. Williams would persuade those who had policies with any of the aforementioned companies that those companies were essentially RIPPING THEM OFF!

    They persuaded the policy holders that staying with State Farm, All State, Hartford, Prudential, Travelers, etc., was dumb and that traditional insurance was dead and being replaced by none other than A.L.Williams. They convinced new A.L. Williams' recruits that all of the insurance giants were going to go out of business because none of them could not compete with A.L. Williams.

    When you see and hear from people like Adrian, just know that they are using the same tactics A.L. Williams used to replace countless good insurance policies with their inherently inferior policies. What's ironic is, after the dust settled and the hype died down, A.L. Williams eventually flopped.

    Again, when you see anyone bashing telemarketing and cold calling, just know that they are trying to flip you like A.L. Williams flipped countless customers, who had to go back to their traditional insurance carriers after A.L. Williams became insolvent.

    Cold calling works and it will always work no matter who bashes it, denigrates it or otherwise makes claims to its demise.
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  • Profile picture of the author footballbob06
    So do you think I am trying to flip you? I am not understanding this. Yes I know of agents that really all they do is replacement policies to get their customers. No problem with this as long as your claims are correct and you are giving them benefit for their money.

    I could care less if you cold called and telemarketed. If you make money at it and you can justify it as acceptable then go for it. I personally wish I was a better salesman but I have a very quiet passive personality and it doesnt work for me.

    Cold calling(not referring to telemarketing just presenting a product to someone you don't know) will probably always work. You just gotta keep up with technology, figure out new ways to do it, and be ethical within in your own moral set to justify the methods you are using.

    You are never going to make everybody happy so one thing you think is acceptable may not be to someone else.

    With my posts I was attempting to be as un biased as possible and make it more of a theoretical argument.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief


      Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

      So do you think I am trying to flip you? I am not understanding this.
      What's so hard to understand? Someone starts a thread requesting help with telemarketing and all of the sudden those who preach against cold calling attempt to flood the thread with their comments about how pathetic, putrid and archaic telemarketing is. Yes, you are trying to flip.

      What's so hard to understand? It's like the religious people who knock on our door every Saturday morning and attempt to convince us that we are going to hell if we don't join their religion. They bash everything we do; watching football on Sunday, watching HBO and ShowTime, not reading their holy book, listening to non-religious radio stations, etc., etc., why? Because they are trying to flip us to join their religion.

      Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

      With my posts I was attempting to be as un biased as possible and make it more of a theoretical argument.
      Arguing? Argument? That's why you comment on telemarketing threads? So that you can present an argument? A person is seeking genuine help in a specific area of marketing and all a certain group of people can think to do is to railroad the thread and prevent him or her from getting the help they need because they want to offer a theoretical argument? Yes, you are trying to flip!

      Originally Posted by footballbob06 View Post

      I could care less if you cold called and telemarketed.
      Huh? Then why argue about it? That sounds just like the minister who said to me, "I don't care if you go to hell or not!" Oh really? Then why did you go out of your way to ring my doorbell early Saturday morning and attempt to get me to read your religious book? Answer? He was trying to flip me to join his religion!

      The really tragic part is, we now have a swarm individuals who are HELL BENT on trying to turn the Warrior Forum into a cesspool of endless and fruitless arguments, so that they may flip telemarketers into buying their, "Cold Call No More" telemarketing replacement packages. We get it; persuade others to stop cold calling and then sell them kits like these.





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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Well, here is the truth.

    2 years ago , before we started REALLY REALLY talking about cold calling, there was no offline subforum, and some of the older pro's who "got" sales, like George Wright and Andrew Cavanagh were making offline sales going door to door, and some others...

    But for the most part people were following guys like Adrian, and about ONE IN THOUSAND would actually break through and get sales.

    ( I believe he wants his market of "suckers" back and thats why he's mad)

    A person getting an offline sale then was the equivalent of a adsense person nowadays saying "I have been working only SIX months , and I just made my first 32 cents! Im so excited!!!"

    But SINCE, we started telemarketing talk around here...its 100 times more likely to see someone saying they got a sale and are in business for themselves now. I have 24 of them listed just on my TM war report sales page alone.

    These people are nt saying "Brilliant concept" they are saying "I made money".

    That makes that sales page on in a thousand around here, to have that many concentrated people saying "I made money" , and thats only a tenth of the ones I could gather.

    This is

    A: In a short period of two years
    B: In a small concentrated subforum area (one of the smallest on the forms)

    Per capita I would bet we have more success in offline than any other part of the Warrior forum.

    Thats because we arent spreading the crap Adrian spreads, which would fit nicely in the main discussion area where its easier to hide under the radar.

    So there is my evidence, JUST since the offline forum started.

    You cant get more evidence than people making money- So if you cant believe my message when HUNDREDS of people are saying they made money off of it, not just a few....then I understand.

    NOW HERE'S The THING...

    I want to Adrian admit that he makes 70 million per year.

    If he cant do that , then nothing else he says has any validity because he is exposed as just a simple LIAR.

    What he has done is either taken on a few usernames and done it himself, or he has organized a group of people running around the forum (and you can tell because it all started happening in a concentrated time period) who are posting long drawn out telemarketing stories wowith just enough positivity to make them believable, but that ultimately depict a long hard road.

    Fastviper and crew chief pretty much sewed his story up.

    BTW, I can promise you that IAmnameless is a full time offliner and not a forum marketer.

    Adrian wants more words.... but I dont prove myself with words, this isnt a college debate...I prove myself with success stories, and if you can argue those then go for it.

    Calling Iamnameless a mere forum marketer isnt a very convincing start.


    Guys if you are new watching this, you may not learn this lesson in the moment, but watch this season pass and you will see what us cold callers are saying will come true, and every stereo typical thing we told you to expect will have come to pass- and cold calling will still be here, and people will be returning to it, after they get worn out by these wankers and are hundreds of dollars lighter for it..
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ foo9tballbob06

    The point is that people are more comfortable with people who approach them on a first name basis, who knows why. It just is. It would only be dishonest if you refuse to give a last name when asked.

    At VERY LEAST, more up front than making strong statements in forums under a user name instead of your own, and you dont see anything wrong with that right?.

    Edit: I dont know who Vlad is, and Im not sure I care...but when he called telemarketing dumb in another thread (yet another) here was what someone answered him and I think it makes our point:


    Originally Posted by NewAge29 View Post

    Coming from someone who's been on the phone for 8 to 10 hours per day for almost 15 years, it's kind of funny that I totally agree with you.

    Calling some random person and trying to sell them something is DUMB. But I think that's part of what makes cold calling such a successful form of selling. You can basically pull someone off the street, hand him a pitch, hand him a few hundred leads and just say "dial and read". They won't be the best right from the start but I've never seen a telemarketer last more than 2 days and not make a sale.

    DUMB but also simple and extremely profitable.

    So to make this thread relevant- THATS how You Defend Telemarketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vladi Vasilev
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Vladi Vasilev View Post


        THE GURU SLAYER...
        You have stated your intent, so how can your posts be objective?

        And who are you after such low post count to even be able to make the determinations that a person with 4000 posts has seen?

        Thats literally , and LOGICALLY, over 100 times the amount of experience at making forum determinations, than you have in this arena, not even COUNTING the 4000 posts I have in my own forum.

        The FACTS are that I have dealt with ALOT of people, and that means something.

        Its not physically possible, unless you have another username, to have been here enough to even be able to make the basic distinctions that would indicate something is amiss with a "guru", especially if you are supporting this Adrian guy and saying cold calling is dumb....there are hundreds of distinctions to make.

        Have at it guru slayer. And thanks for telling us why you are at the Warrior forum we will be on the look out for your agendas.

        On another note:

        When more than a couple of people have to be directed to go back and reread your points (which I have repeatedly seen you instruct others to do) ...then maybe you arent a good communicator.

        See that distinction I just made, its one of hundreds that my experience here has taught me to make.

        You may earn my respect, not that you wish to, but at this point you are anonymous and your word carries little weight.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Vladi Vasilev View Post

        And You also need to start reading/quoting the whole thing, when you search threads.

        Yes, now you know who Vlad is....

        THE GURU SLAYER...

        Now go back and read it all. And then come back and quote it all.
        I never heard John call himself a GURU, actually
        i haven't head anyone who does phone sales here in WF call themselves guru.

        If your really hunting gurus, your hunting in the wrong area.
        nothing but people trying to learn and earn here.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          I never heard John call himself a GURU, actually
          i haven't head anyone who does phone sales here in WF call themselves guru.

          If your really hunting gurus, your hunting in the wrong area.
          nothing but people trying to learn and earn here.

          I think I said it tongue in cheek once Ken, but it wasnt serious. In any event, this guy has so little experience that he didnt realize we would make that OBVIOUS determination from his statements, nor what it would reveal about his posting.

          If he DID know, then he just shot his objective in the foot intentionally.

          I need to get out of this thread seriously, if only to respect my peers who keep saying to get out of it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            All you seasoned Crank Callers seem to spend more time on this forum than actually running these businesses you speak of.

            Thats because Im a professional trainer braniac, only unlike some I dont have trouble admitting it.

            Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

            ]

            I've just left a meeting only to find that you "seasoned vets" are still waving your handbags around in this thread.. Shame.
            You mean you just changed usernames? Who were you meeting with your other 10 personalities?

            By the way, do you really make 70 million dollars per year like you say?

            According to your addition thats a fact. I like a straight quote though.
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            • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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              • Profile picture of the author somacorellc
                Originally Posted by Adrian Browning

                My Little Pony ROCKS
                Dude! I thought I was the only one! Which one is your favorite??
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        • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          I never heard John call himself a GURU, actually
          i haven't head anyone who does phone sales here in WF call themselves guru.

          If your really hunting gurus, your hunting in the wrong area.
          nothing but people trying to learn and earn here.
          Whoa, b4 the mods close this thread I need to jump back in and proclaim to the world:

          I AM A GURU

          better say it again so people don't forget:

          I AM A GURU

          one more time in case this thread gets closed:

          I AM A GURU

          Sorry Ken, just had to do it...

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

    So that is your "profession" you are a trainer. So what you are saying is, you DON'T own a brick and mortar business.. You have no employees.. You have no "experience" on the very thing you are "training" others to do? You are nothing but a Forum Marketer. A Forum Salesman.

    So then what qualifies you to train other's who have REAL BUSINESSES?

    Who are you to tell another person how to find more clients? Because you aren't even Cold Calling yourself.. all your clients are on this very forum. Which is why you are online for the whole entire day.
    I have people working for me, I have offline clients and I am an offline business person in real life with real clients... I am building a directory site that is projected to do about $250k its first year as well... I provide work opportunities for designers and different people at WF every single day.

    But yeah I have been a professional trainer for 15 years, and a record breaking one.

    Im not sure you are able to seperate issues judging from this, because no where did I say I dont do offline business. Thats a key trait of a person who can only see their own agenda.

    As to your other question, some days Im here on and off all day, and others like yesterday I have "business meetings" away from my computer...and dont post till after 6 pm... then make a post and go on about my business.

    All of these things that disgust you I have no problem being open about.

    What else you got ?

    BTW: Do you make 70 million dollars per year?

    You are avoiding the question. I will answer another of yours when you answer mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig McPherson
    Mods: Can you lock this crap please.

    The whole thing is counter productive.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

      Mods: Can you lock this crap please.

      The whole thing is counter productive.
      actually its a little more productive then you may think.

      for instance, proof of multiple accounts, and bringing a few huskers to light.
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      • Profile picture of the author Craig McPherson
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        for instance, proof of multiple accounts, and bringing a few huskers to light.
        I'm all for this Rick, truly, on the other hand there are brands being damaged in the process I feel.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Adrian

    You are avoiding the question spammer.

    Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

    Mods: Can you lock this crap please.

    The whole thing is counter productive.
    I agree that its gone a little far, but I dont think its counter productive. I think its important to teach the young to fish out people like this.

    I think he should either answer the question or be banned myself, since he made the claim as his premise. But its not my call.

    Are you making 70 million per year offline as your addition claims Adrian or are you going to continue to say curse words and avoid the question?

    Believe me, Adrian wants this thread locked more than anyone on it!
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    • Profile picture of the author somacorellc
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      But its not my call.

      I laughed way too hard at this.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Believe me, Adrian wants this thread locked more than anyone on it!
      wait, don't you mean Murdock.. wait, i mean vlad.. wait i mean...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    This is for Paul Myers




    For Adrian:

    Cricket....cricket.... (looking at watch....). Are we at a loss for words?

    Let me repeat: "Your addition claims that you make 70 million dollars per year as an offliner"....Well do you?

    Or are we done fishing you out....?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I hope Adrian answers the question before its closed. He's waiting for it to get locked and crossing his fingers right now. If its closed without him answering I will take that as an admission of guilt since its obvious this man has no trouble talking, only trouble answering direct questions, and seperating issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I hope Adrian answers the question before its closed. He's waiting for it to get locked and crossing his fingers right now. If its closed without him answering I will take that as an admission of guilt since its obvious this man has no trouble talking, only trouble answering direct questions, and seperating issues.

      i bet you a fivver that murdock replies first
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      I wonder if GURU is the acronym for:

      Girl's
      Underwear
      Relentleslly
      Undulating

      That won't get me banned will it???

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  • Profile picture of the author newbizideas312
    It's only sleazy if you don't believe in the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Well... before the thread gets locked have I mentioned
    the phrase arrogant punk yet? OK... I thought so.

    Carry on...
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Well... before the thread gets locked have I mentioned
      the phrase arrogant punk yet? OK... I thought so.

      Carry on...
      Whew! I thought you were coming here to give me an A$$ kicking again for participating! lol

      "Arrogant Punk" duely noted.

      Feel free to have some popcorn, there is plenty!





      Still crickets on Adrians answer to the direct question though...I guess this would be a good time for him to say he has too much business to do, and too much dignity to participate.

      Probably workin another thread or forum now with another username.

      Or

      He is watching and sweating right now saying to himself "Cmon Paul , lock the thread...why isnt anyone locking the thread...I put down other Warriors and EVERYTHING...its supposed to be locked, why isnt it locked?"
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by Vladi Vasilev View Post

        No you haven't:

        Let me jump in here real quick so I could fix this and that

        - you know nothing about craigslist ( go back to that "craigslist help" thread and take another look at the fixing I had to do after you said all that bull crap and disappeared ).

        - I highly doubt you know E-mail marketing;

        - You know a little about cold-calling, but not so much ( again go back to that cоld- calling thread the other day )

        -You know nothing at all about business: at least that's what you show around here.

        -You might know something about SEO.

        -You know a lot about forum marketing though. With the ego, the attitude and everything new people coming in here are gonna be loving you.

        and that's it.

        So you are just a forum marketer. Wich is still good if it helps you make money.

        I'll tell you something really smart and then give you an advice.

        First the smart thing.

        More the Ego,
        lesser the knowledge.

        And know the advice:
        What a joke..

        Another one climbs out from the sewer.
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