A fundemental question: Cold calling and disales is unethical and sleazy, how would you defend this?

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Hi,

I have a quick question.


I was talking offline marketing with someone I know, and he said that cold calling is unethical and kind of sleazy.

His reasoning is that. If you put out a site advertising your services and marketed it, business owners that are genuinely interested in what you have to offer will approach you. Instead during direct sales and cold calling you backing the owner up into a corner, alot of the time, so to speak and if they were really interested they would have come to you, you wouldnt have to hunt out the business?

How would you offline warriors defend yourselves against these sorts of comments, not that you should, or have to, but if you wanted to....

Id be really interested to hear this discussion


Looking forward to your replies.


.......
#offline marketing #calling #cold #defend #disales #fundemental #question #sleazy #unethical
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    There are alot of guys around here saying that...if you will look up their post trail you will find that many of them just go from post to post talking about how other methods are sleazy but you dont see their students in the offline forum every week saying "I got a sale".

    I think some have built entire reputations on using words like sleazy but they are rebels without a cause and thats pretty much all you ever hear from them. You will find that their followers all use a similar "Nazi" kind of language

    Its actually funny once you notice how bad the pattern is, and how typical it is from them.

    Those will always be with us , pay them no mind. I guess ATT and all the other major companies just do it because they are sleazy?

    Hardly.

    Those folks are busier putting down our methods than they are teaching their own people to get sales. Mostly they just teach hate.

    Hope this helps.

    Ps. The answer is not to defend yourself, just say "Whatever loser" and move on to the next number...let them talk while you get sales and get the customers that arent knocking their doors down with that passive marketing.

    It sounds good, and they have a class of people who like their ears tickled,running around all patting each other on the back with no daily sales, calling others sleazy. LOl

    They are just pissed because cold callers have taken over the offline forum and they are actually getting sales and the concept has been proven a hundred times... The best they have is words like "sleazy"- too late to say "Ineffective" but they tried that last year... didnt get far. Now its just "sleazy". lol

    Tell that to my stockbroker friend Rob.

    Some even have entire blogs devoted to talking down about others methods... I feel sorry for their readers. Not much lean mean results driven value there.


    @ Mods: I put some more of this at the end of the thread in case you run out. Its pretty long.

  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    If cold calling is sleazy, the **** it. I'm sleazy. I just cold called a major European company about selling our video services, they just opened up a branch in our area and they put a lot of video online and they don't have an in house video department in my area. How else will they find me? Word of mouth? Google? Screw that, I'll tell them I'm here and and I'll keep calling until their hire me or tell us to get lost.

    When I started in TV working for ad agencies, they had no clue who I was. I would call, set up an appointment and give a pitch. When I was 22 I closed an 8k deal with an ad agency that I cold called, pitched, and followed up with phone calls for 2 months. Was that sleazy?

    When I called up every TV station in a 3 county area every week trying to drum up work and landed a few gigs and eventually my first job, was that sleazy?

    When I wanted my last job. I called, applied and followed up for a month and a half. Sleazy?

    When I called businesses about buying ad space and some did, was that sleazy? I don't get it. If it is, I'll take sleazy over starving. I hate cold calling. I hate doing it. But I will if it comes down to it. Because how else can you get in touch with dozens of potential clients for pennies. It's cheap.

    I don't believe in the "if you build it they will come" BS. If thats the case, why have commercials, or radio ads, or any form of advertisement? Cold calling is just the most direct method of asking for a sale. It's naked and raw and powerful and CHEAP, things that scare most people to death. They want it nice and clean and sugar coated.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

      they just opened up a branch in our area and they put a lot of video online and they don't have an in house video department in my area. How else will they find me? Word of mouth? Google? Screw that, I'll tell them I'm here and and I'll keep calling until their hire me or tell us to get lost.
      .
      And in the process you would probably find two more prospects so you wouldnt even care if they told you to get lost....or iof someone called you sleazy. You can always find more prospects where you got that one, and arent just moved by whatever the wind brings you.... You have CONTROL over your flow.

      People even call Donald Trump sleazy. and Bill Gates. The people who perpetuate that kind of vibe always will no matter what. Its their "M.O."

      (Maybe a Napoleon complex?)
  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    How or why would anyone waste time defending themselves
    or what they do against the personal bias of the ignorant?
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    • Profile picture of the author StrategicCheetah
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      How or why would anyone waste time defending themselves
      or what they do against the personal bias of the ignorant?
      Well said, I wouldn't even dignify them with a response of any kind personally.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    His reasoning is that. If you put out a site advertising your services and marketed it, business owners that are genuinely interested in what you have to offer will approach you. Instead during direct sales and cold calling you backing the owner up into a corner, alot of the time, so to speak and if they were really interested they would have come to you, you wouldnt have to hunt out the business?
    Based on THIS all marketing and advertising would be sleazy not just cold calling and direct sales. Chances are he doesn't mean it anyway. It's a defense mechanism people put up because nobody likes to be "sold."

    That being said, I would "defend" that the same way I always have, do, and will in the future. And that is with the following:

    "Ok. I see what you're saying. But if you're car is stalled on the railroad tracks with a train coming at you and you don't solicit my help or advice, is the ethical move for me to just let the train hit you because you didn't seek me out?"

    I would then explain to him the same thing I have explained in a lot of sales classes I have taught, and it's a very simple concept. It works like this:


    The JaceMan's 8 Simple Rules of Selling
    The first rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
    The second rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
    The third rule of sales is: ALL business starts with the sell.
    The fourth rule of sales is: Realize you're not a con artist; you're a solution finder.
    The fifth rule of sales is: PROFIT is NOT a FOUR letter word.
    The sixth rule of sales is: Ever had to tell your child no more than once? Yeah, make your customers do the same to you.
    The seventh rule of sales is: The customer will continue to benefit from the deal long after the commission is spent.
    The eighth rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.


    See, I believe if you keep these 8 simple rules close to your heart you won't be able to avoid success. The fact of the matter is, if you believe in what you're selling, then you have a moral and ethical obligation to share that chance or opportunity with other people. To have knowledge of something that can benefit them in some way and keep that to yourself would be selfish at best.

    Hope that helps!
    • Profile picture of the author HappyGayleen
      Originally Posted by JaceBarnett View Post

      Based on THIS all marketing and advertising would be sleazy not just cold calling and direct sales. Chances are he doesn't mean it anyway. It's a defense mechanism people put up because nobody likes to be "sold."

      That being said, I would "defend" that the same way I always have, do, and will in the future. And that is with the following:

      "Ok. I see what you're saying. But if you're car is stalled on the railroad tracks with a train coming at you and you don't solicit my help or advice, is the ethical move for me to just let the train hit you because you didn't seek me out?"

      I would then explain to him the same thing I have explained in a lot of sales classes I have taught, and it's a very simple concept. It works like this:


      The JaceMan's 8 Simple Rules of Selling
      The first rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
      The second rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.
      The third rule of sales is: ALL business starts with the sell.
      The fourth rule of sales is: Realize you're not a con artist; you're a solution finder.
      The fifth rule of sales is: PROFIT is NOT a FOUR letter word.
      The sixth rule of sales is: Ever had to tell your child no more than once? Yeah, make your customers do the same to you.
      The seventh rule of sales is: The customer will continue to benefit from the deal long after the commission is spent.
      The eighth rule of sales is: BELIEVE in what you're selling.


      See, I believe if you keep these 8 simple rules close to your heart you won't be able to avoid success. The fact of the matter is, if you believe in what you're selling, then you have a moral and ethical obligation to share that chance or opportunity with other people. To have knowledge of something that can benefit them in some way and keep that to yourself would be selfish at best.

      Hope that helps!
      I was going to write about how if you believe in what you're selling and know if will help someone you do them a DISSERVICE by not telling them about it. You said it so well. I will be quoting you to my sales consultants. I love your 8 rules. Thank you for your post!
  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    There isn't anything happening in a sales phone call that isn't also happening on a postcard, an email or any other kind of advertising.

    The word ignorant doesnt even begin to describe how far behind the 8-ball your pal is.

    I would invite him to go learn how to be a telemarketer...he will gain a whole new appreciation for the art....and he wil come to understand it IS an art. He will see there is nothing sleazy about it. Its a very logical process.

    This whole idea of waiting for customers to decide they need you...is about the stupidest thing I can fathom.

    If he walked into a town with 2355 business in..knowing full well that every single one of them would benefit from his services, whatever they may be...what is he going to do, put up a website and get himself ranked on local Google..then sit...and wait...and hope?

    I can tell you this....you can make 20 calls a day...and still reach FAR MORE people than will ever see him on a search engine. Regardless of any of those calls hooking a sale for a while..YOU STILL are getting exposure...people know you exist.

    The amount of people that actually go looking for something is a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of the amount of people that still actually need what your selling.

    The guy who figures out how to get to the rest of all those people first, is the guy who wins.

    There is only one thing Ive ever seen that has rivaled or surpassed successes I've seen or done with direct mail campaigns...and that is, telemarketing campaigns.

    DP
  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    All the big-swinging you-know-whats call cold over the phone or in person.

    Talked with a personal lines producer at breakfast this morning. There's a 28 year old killing it in commercial insurance about 50 miles away from where I live. Pulls down a half-mil a year in commissions.

    How does he do it? He picks up the phone book and dials. No leads, no SEO. Cold calls.

    All the top-rated publicly-traded sales organizations like Aramark, Cintas, all Med Device companies, software reps. Guess what sleazy sh*t they're doing?

    Cold-calling.
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      All the big-swinging you-know-whats call cold over the phone or in person.

      Talked with a personal lines producer at breakfast this morning. There's a 28 year old killing it in commercial insurance about 50 miles away from where I live. Pulls down a half-mil a year in commissions.

      How does he do it? He picks up the phone book and dials. No leads, no SEO. Cold calls.

      All the top-rated publicly-traded sales organizations like Aramark, Cintas, all Med Device companies, software reps. Guess what sleazy sh*t they're doing?

      Cold-calling.
      Good points Reardon, on another note:

      Once you are free, you want to share it! Abraham Maslows pyramid says that...: once we achieve liberation our desire most generally turns to "contribution",

      I take this as an indication that you have achieved some liberation.
  • Profile picture of the author Fox30
    IMHO...cold calling is an art and some of the biggest companies have become by cold calling.

    Cold calling does not mean that you have to lie to the prospect. With cold calling, you still have to find a benefit for your prospect that your product or service will be able to provide.
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I dont give a flying you know what if someone thinks it's sleazy. I'll continue making money why they continue trying to learn how to make money.

    Don't bother defending it... it doesn't matter. What matters is the end result.

    I'm doing companies a favor by reaching out to them, because without me, they would be stuck in their old ways and being a victim of mediocrity.
    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      The post certainly generated a lot of chatter. Unfortunately this has to be one of those "hidden assets" post. You know hidden asset as in a spy lurks among us.

      Probably works for some terrorist group that plans on bombing every TM room in the world plus John Durham's home office. Ouch, hate losing you John.

      Give me an effing break - defend??? - the jerk who made the remark, if he is a real person, probably uses scented toilet paper. Aaarrrgghhh matey, no use for those types. Make him walk the plank.

      OK, I'm back. The meds don't wear off as fast as they use to...

      No need to defend anything when you are talking to a fool. In fact, you want to get as far away as possible so people don't get you two confused.

      Just my 2¢...

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

      Well since we are on a marketing forum, full to the brim with marketing techniques, I would first like to point to the fact that there are hundreds of ways to "make sales" and "kill it" online.

      Cold calling is just some peoples preference. A primitive preference at that. Sure, people say that they rake it in by cold calling. More power to them. All they are doing is making their own businesses look like weaker stuff compared to others that use more intelligent forms of marketing.

      The reason i refer to cold calling as primitive, because what you are actually doing is phoning someone and asking them to give you some money. Literally, that is what you are doing. Now imagine someone you dont know, an absolute stranger, phoning your phone and asking you for some of your hard earned money. What would your reaction be? I'd imagine you'd be a little disgusted, irritated, annoyed.. those types of feelings..

      Of course companies like ATT cold call. Like I said there are NUMEROUS marketing methods. The most successful companies USE THEM ALL. So that's not to say that they get the lion's share of their customer's through cold calling because whether you'd like to admit it or not, cold calling just isn't that effective.

      Companies like ATT get the BULK of their customers through advertising. (TV, RADIO, MAGAZINES, PR, SPONSORSHIP, BILLBOARDS, DIRECT MAIL, POSTCARDS) They don't just pick up some telephones to make cold calls, and even if that was the only thing they did OFCOURSE they would be successful at it. They are a billion dollar company. At any one time they could have a building full of people making these supposed cold calls at the rate of 100 calls per minute. The average warrior forum member could NEVER achieve these numbers... they would have to make these calls all by themselves averaging maybe 50 calls a week at best. (How many clients do you realistically think you'd get by doing that) maybe 1 every odd month.. if your lucky.

      The long and short of it is that you could seriously do much greater things with your time. Cold calling is not the be all and end all of anything to be honest. But if that's what you prefer to spend you days doing, you know, annoying business owner's, pissing off gatekeepers, and getting the phone slammed down on you all day then go ahead.

      All that means is I'll have more clients to ever so diligently scoop up

      Good way to heat up a thread. Im not biting- too "primitive".

      Now that the purpose has been outed, by our friend Sandalwood, the troll will try to start asking for people to feed it, because it sees the fire dying as the question has been answered.

      It will be interesting to see the twist they use to play this one out... Strike one- Adrian didnt work.
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay Tom wants to play "mangle the opposition"- this ought to be fun to watch.

    Sure, enlighten us dumb folks "Username known as Adrian".
    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Okay Tom wants to play "mangle the opposition"- this ought to be fun to watch.

      Sure, enlighten us dumb folks "Username known as Adrian".
      I re-read the post (Adrian's) and it is so full of air it doesn't make sense. Look at TV ads. Are they the purest form of cold call or what? I mean they just telephone right into your space w/o bothering to ask. Geeshhh...

      Oh and adsense isn't cold calling. Nah, can't be. It's on the Internet. They don't appear on every freaking web page, even my sites so I better add that.

      We both would love to have a slam dunk in our pocket and never have to go near the phone again. Think of the vacation you could have even in TX, forgot the city.

      Yep, you could charge max $$$ for a WSO, appear on all the TV and Radio shows as the newest latest guru on sales. Corps would be lined up to buy you and sell Tony Robbins. I can't wait for the 3 better things.

      Just sayin'...

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Guys -- please don't try to convince these folks otherwise that cold calling is actually effective.

    I really don't need the competition.

    Oh yeah, got another cold calling success example:

    Dude 30 miles north of me sells the same insurance lines as I do -- 2 years ago he decided to stop spending $1000 to $1250 weekly on direct mail business reply pieces to generate leads.

    Instead, he started cold calling.

    Results? 300 Medicare Supplements sold (First year commissions $75k, not including the same level of commissions for the next 5 years each year), 180 or so life insurance policies sold ($140k first year commissions, not including around $10-$15 commissions years 2-10), and about $75k in annuity sales.

    $250k-$350k in first year commissioned business (NOT including the hundreds of thousands of renewal income he'll make each successive year the policy stays on the books) -- all from... wait for it... cold calling old people?
    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Guys -- please don't try to convince these folks otherwise that cold calling is actually effective.

      I really don't need the competition.

      Oh yeah, got another cold calling success example:

      Dude 30 miles north of me sells the same insurance lines as I do -- 2 years ago he decided to stop spending $1000 to $1250 weekly on direct mail business reply pieces to generate leads.

      Instead, he started cold calling.

      Results? 300 Medicare Supplements sold (First year commissions $75k, not including the same level of commissions for the next 5 years each year), 180 or so life insurance policies sold ($140k first year commissions, not including around $10-$15 commissions years 2-10), and about $75k in annuity sales.

      $250k-$350k in first year commissioned business (NOT including the hundreds of thousands of renewal income he'll make each successive year the policy stays on the books) -- all from... wait for it... cold calling old people?
      Rearden,

      Apaprently that doesn't work in Seabrook. Don't know that for sure, just guessing based on a post I read.

      Oh, almost forgot, that's how we built our ins agency. All the direct mail we sent out produced zero policies but they were professionally produced by a large ins co. Didn't come from a home office marketer who isn't a salesman. That must be the difference.

      Just my 2¢...

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Funny stuff.

    Wish Adrian would get on his real user name, or at least go by his real name instead of a fake one. For someone that does so much marketing, there is no record of him existing aside from trolling these threads.
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    "Primitive" isnt an insult?
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Another "funny" thing... is how Adrian claims to do classifieds, ppc, direct mailing, etc. etc. However..... he NEVER shows up in ANY thread about those things. He only shows up to bash cold calling.

    I have given help to others with SEO, Google Places/local, PPC, Email Marketing, Cold Calling, Direct Mailing, Craigslist and other classifieds...Why aren't you if you're capable of doing any of these things?
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Another "funny" thing... is how Adrian claims to do classifieds, ppc, direct mailing, etc. etc. However..... he NEVER shows up in ANY thread about those things. He only shows up to bash cold calling.
      Am I not saying this?

      Adrian is living up to every stereotype of his type... we may even know who he is already judging from his linguistic patterns. Not nearly as smart as he thinks.

      There are a few around here (Fakes) that Im ignoring....
    • Profile picture of the author Vladi Vasilev
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I dont promote anything. Im very proud of that. People come to my forum by either referal or by being interested in what Im saying and clicking themselves. I have never solicted a single opt in,.

    Hater. Lol

    You guys dont even bother me anymore, you are just funny.
  • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
    Personally John, I find it so comical that "Adrian" thinks you never do anything for anyone and have nothing to say about that which you are a master at...you are the reason I am on the fast track to success, and I know I am not alone.

    Pretty sure he must be blind... or just blissfully...ig... well you know... whatever.
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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  • Profile picture of the author JaceBarnett
    The accusation at hand may not need to be "defended," but I still think my 8 Simple Sales Rules is the answer. In general, the question isn't really about which form of prospecting is "sleazy." What is or isn't sleazy has nothing (or certainly very little) to do with how you got your list of people to call on or how you choose to reach them... nope what really defines what is sleazy or not depends on whether or not you're marketing something you do or don't believe in and whether or not your product or service has any value for those you're marketing to.

    If what you have can benefit someone else, there is NOTHING sleazy about putting it in front of them, regardless of the medium.

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