MY TELEMARKETING EXPERIENCE! (COLD CALLING - IT WORKS)

by Jon Martin 73 replies
This is my first month here (although it seems like it's been much longer!) and I came to terms with the fact that COLD CALLING works, quite quickly. Being a teen who worked in a call center in the past myself, I knew the power (and sometimes, stress) of telemarketing.

I remember sitting there, reading a dull and incoherent calling script for a company, trying to book estimates for thermal windows and doors. It was a boring job to say the least, but I made it fun by competing. I wanted to be the best telemarketer in the building, and after a bit of practise I was.

However, I was so discontent with the fact that I wasn't able to change up the script to my own liking. Nothing crazy or drastic, just a few intelligent changes to hopefully book some more leads, be more productive, and hopefully garner some commissions.

The call center would usually average about 2 LEADS / 3 hour shift (per outbound agent). I usually did 3 or 4 per shift. I remember one day, the manager was home ill, and I was at my wits end. At that point, I didn't care about keeping the job - in fact, I wanted to quit.

I had gotten into small debates with this manager over the script in the past. It's not like I was a bad employee or anything .. in fact the manager favored me over the majority of the agents in the room, simply because as a 15 year old I was booking twice the amount of leads than some of the 40 year old's in the building.

When I noticed that the manager was not in, I decided to take it upon myself to prove a point. I wanted to prove to the manager that his script was preventing agents from making more money for the company. I was no expert marketer at the time (and I'm still far from it) but I KNEW that I could write up a script in a matter of minutes that would BLOW THE CURRENT ONE AWAY in terms of conversions and call center averages.

And so the second I noticed the manager being away, I took a piece of paper and a pencil, and I wrote my own version of the script. It took me about 6 minutes to write an opening and a number of popular rebuttals to utilize.

That day, while neglecting the company's script and using my own modification, I booked 12 leads.

The next day, I walked into work knowing that the boss would be very happy upon looking at the previous day's statistics. I also knew that he was way too egotistical to come to the conclusion that a 15 year old wrote a script in a matter of minutes of which dominated his own.

I walked into the room, and was greeted by him with a huge grin. He obviously heard about me breaking all time company records the shift prior.

"Woah, Jon! I heard you had quite the day yesterday," he stated with delight. "How'd you pull it off?"

"I used a script that is rendered to actually be effective to the prospects this company is calling. Oh, and if you don't mind I'd like to give my notice. I don't intend to continue my employment here by the end of the month."

And with that, I sat down, went through my 3 hour shift and went home; only to return a week later to collect my final paycheck.

I didn't need the job. It was part-time, and it wasn't good pay. I'm just a 16 year old, so it's not like I had bills to pay at the time. I knew that I was too good to be working for somebody of whom was ignorant to change and placed his ego before business.

As it turns out, a friend of mine who continued on working there informed me a couple months later that the manager had gone through my calls that day and actually taken the modified script I used and decided to begin enforcing it verbatim with the entire call center. He came to terms with the fact their initial calling script was far from efficient and even took the opportunity to take the one I made.

Leaving that telemarketing job was one of the best decisions I've made thus far in my marketing career. If there's any lesson to take from this true (and hopefully somewhat entertaining) story is that It's all in the pitch.

Cold calling works. Take some action and find out for yourself. :]
#offline marketing #cold calling #experience #telemarketing
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    ~Yeah great...

    BUT the big question is why do you have to keep trying to get new business every day?

    This is what gets me about "cold calling". You have to spend how many hours of each day cold calling new bizz? Why? Why not simply go for 5-10 high paying montlhy clients and then you do not have to slave away making those cold calls. And when do you actually get any work done?

    Is that the life you want? Every day...claling strangers selling to them? What happened to buisness? Passive income?

    My 2 cents and I have no doubts i am going to get flamed to death here soon. (i know who by)

    BUT if you have to keep cold calling for new biz...something is wrong with your business modul. I can understand the need to do it to start with or even every so often if clients drop out....but every day? That isn't right.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      ~Yeah great...

      BUT the big question is why do you have to keep trying to get new business every day?

      This is what gets me about "cold calling". You have to spend how many hours of each day cold calling new bizz? Why? Why not simply go for 5-10 high paying montlhy clients and then you do not have to slave away making those cold calls. And when do you actually get any work done?

      Is that the life you want? Every day...claling strangers selling to them? What happened to buisness? Passive income?

      My 2 cents and I have no doubts i am going to get flamed to death here soon. (i know who by)

      BUT if you have to keep cold calling for new biz...something is wrong with your business modul. I can understand the need to do it to start with or even every so often if clients drop out....but every day? That isn't right.

      Good luck.
      Did I say that I cold call every day? No. Of course not. I probably do 2 sessions a week at most currently, and it's been working well thus far. I don't spend the entire day doing it either - usually just a morning or two a week.. and it's WELL worth it. I don't see an issue with spending a couple hours cold calling in order to secure a couple clients.

      By the way, you're making it seem as though cold calling only relates to small sales, and that going after monthly "high-paying" clients is a better approach. Did it ever occur to you that one's prospects do not always have to be simple everyday consumers? People cold call all types of niches, not just for smaller scale sales such as web design, etc. I know of people who make cold calls to construction companies and architect's and make $20,000+ sales at a time. Cold calling isn't at all just for small scale operations. It depends who you're calling.

      Not that there's anything wrong with these smaller scale operations, either. I'm content spending 4 hours on the phone to make a $500 sale with potential for future transactions, the sale of alternative services, and referrals. I think that's pretty good money for a teenager, and I don't see a problem with that.

      Not everybody can go straight to making 5-10 "high paying" monthly operations.. but they can probably get there via learning the ropes and cold calling.

      Cold calling is a fantastic way to reach prospects in which may be interested in one's products or services, and I feel like you're completely underestimating the resiliency and power of it in a general sense.

      I thank you for your opinion but if you do you're research you'll find a TON of success stories even just on WF from users of whom have tried their hand at cold calling and SUCCEEDED dramatically.

      Thanks,
      Jon.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    My remark was more about cold calling in general than on your post. But thx for the reply.

    My point being.....if you have to keep cold calling for business maybe something is wrong with your business?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    99% of sales people are going to have to continue prospecting their entire lives.

    I've talked to veteran insurance salesmen who run out of referrals and family members to sell to around the 7-9 year mark. There comes a point where one simply has tapped out whom they can work. Therefore, they go back to what they KNOW works -- they hit the streets, bang on doors, cold call, work a business reply direct mail system, etc.

    Unfortunately, I think a lot of the sales process has been co-opted by charlatans selling "marketing systems" that really target the "lazy factor" all of us have. Nothing sounds better than a six-figure business, where all the business calls YOU, and you don't have to go any further than your kitchen table (wearing nothing but your underwear, of course) to make it happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    If you don't keep talking to new people/prospects, your business will die.

    I'm totally for using multiple marketing techniques, but nothing has ever worked for me as well as picking up the phone and having a relaxed conversation with another person.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author Jacer
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        I don't know of 1 business owner who will cut a check for a $15 barbecue stand let alone a $20,000 deal with someone who reached them via a cold call.
        This is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read on this forum...
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        • Profile picture of the author mike_lucas
          Originally Posted by Jacer View Post

          This is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read on this forum...
          I have to agree 100% with that statement. On the other hand, it seems some are positioning for their next WSO and when someone say anything bad about it they get to flaming and defensive.

          We do emailing and it works.
          We do cold calling and it works
          We do letters, post cards and flyer and it works

          We even have have a few sales guys folks who just walks in a business and sell cold calling i.e door to door and guess what... it works.

          It required testing and testing and more testing. The problem is so many here are looking for the magic bullet , the WSO, the gets 20 clients in a hour "make 10,000 your first week crap" they are not willing to put the time and effort. Then when they hit a small hurdle they move on to the next WSO, or Sell a WSO theory that is most likely junk and just another that "theory".





          There is a lot of helpful information on this site it just getting harder to weed thru the increasing amount of junk .
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          • Profile picture of the author abbot
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            You know what...

            I'm sick of seeing the constant battle about what works. Why don't you guys just get out there and DO IT. Quit sitting on a forum and critiquing what works and what does not. IT ALL WORKS. And it's all part of a marketing plan that all business SHOULD have in order to grow.

            Yellowpages sells millions of dollars in websites and phone page ads every single year by cold calling...

            Vistaprint branded themselves as the "go to" for business cards through direct advertising and TV ads.

            Dan Kennedy has proved over and over again that direct mail pieces work. Just read a couple of his books...

            Affiliate marketers make a full time income just by having a golden email list

            You should start to see a trend here. It ALL works and these companies/individuals have the bank accounts and clientele to back it up.

            It's called MARKETING ladies and gentlemen. The idea is to develop a plan that includes as many lead gen funnels as possible.

            I'm sick of looking around this MARKETING forum and seeing all this BS. If you have a problem with cold calling DON'T COLD CALL, if you think direct mailing is out dated DON'T MAIL. Quit sitting on here and bashing these different MARKETING methods.

            IT DON'T MATTER WHAT WORKS BEST. It's all part marketing which is the foundation for ANY business. A good cold caller can make 6 figures a year easily. A good copywriter can make 6 figures a year easily.

            I will always keep the quote "Always Be Closing" near and dear to me. And I think some of you should too. It don't matter HOW you are closing or WHAT method you are using to generate the leads. The important part is that you are CLOSING, SELLING, PUTTING MONEY IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, GROWING YOUR BUSINESS.

            No one here has room to bash, I just listed companies that use the same methods that you are bashing to make more money then you can even dream of making.

            If people would put as much effort into their business as they do on this forum these stupid discussions wouldn't even be present because you would actually be making money

            You are forgetting the point of being on this forum in the first place. To take and receive information. Not to break these methods down and bash them only to say you have a better way of doing it. If you do, then good for you. Go make it happen and teach someone how you do it along the way...
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            • Profile picture of the author onlinevideoguy
              AWESOME!! You Nailed It Man, With Facts!! Right on!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        $20,000 a deal through cold calling? Why don't we keep things 100% realistic here.

        Thats not unreal;istic at all Adrian. What do you think stockbrokers do?

        In fact I have made $20,000 deals through EMAIL.
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      • Profile picture of the author philboy uk
        I would be interested to know your motivation for writing these comments.

        I am just suprised that such a successful entrepeneur as yourself , would
        see any value in spending time arguing with people that you obviously have
        little regard for.

        Could not see Richard Branson getting up in the morning and feeling the need to spend time ,justifying his business plan on a forum, I am sure he puts his skills to more worthwhile uses, and his results speak for themselves.



        Waiting to be educated.

        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        $20,000 a deal through cold calling? Why don't we keep things 100% realistic here.

        I don't know of 1 business owner who will cut a check for a $15 barbecue stand let alone a $20,000 deal with someone who reached them via a cold call.

        Not everyone can start off with 5-10 high paying monthly contracts? Excuse me? Well what is high paying to you? $600, $1000? Because when I started out I ran Flyer campaigns and Direct mail pieces that secured me my first 5 clients all paying above $1.5K each.. I practically started my whole organisation off of Direct advertising.




        Okay, so what about your current clients? It is a known fact that it costs more in time, money and effort to find new customers than it does to service your existing ones.

        Ever heard of upselling? ...That is how money is made in this industry.

        But sure, some time should be delegated towards finding new customers.. But there should always be an automated system in place.

        Cold calling takes up hours of precious time.. and produces very little in return.

        I know that I can set up a high converting DM campaign, get some good quality flyers printed, have them distributed during the first week of every month and then sit back as all the leads come in..

        This leaves me more room to focus on my current clients, and improve my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Calling gives you quick feedback, a yes or a no. Marketing can result in a very slow sales cycle. I'm for using everything you can to get incoming leads, but calling in my experience gets you the quickest results.

    'Course, getting your offer out in front of a salivating marketing will work fast, too...but you have to know where is that market is.
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  • Profile picture of the author rolltide
    Adrian,
    Can you give us some more info on the flyer system you use? All about having different lines in the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Adrian...

    My father, who sold his business for millions, had all his salesmen cold call.

    This is how he got into some of his biggest accounts.

    Fortune 500 companies... Pharmas... Software development people... all cold call.

    Targeted, direct marketing DOES work... but so does cold calling. For thousands upon thousands of successful salespeople.

    Why is that so hard to comprehend?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    Are you just making this up? Because in your other thread you state that your first cold call was very recently and about selling web design.

    Here - http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...peechless.html

    Quote 1 - When I finally made my FIRST EVER cold call, I didn't know what to expect.. but I prepared a script and off I went. I went on google and found a roofing company with a TERRIBLE website (looked like it was straight out of 1995!) and decided to make the call.

    Quote 2 - This was all from my first cold call ever - beginners luck? I am actually speechless. I'm meeting with this guy on Monday at the company headquarters and I am anxious and excited. I can't believe this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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      • Profile picture of the author mil0x
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        It seems people around here seem to lie to push the idea that cold calling works.

        Disgusting if you ask me.
        You're right, it is disgusting, all those liars.
        I guess companies that are spending multi-million dollars per month to pay their telemarketers wages get no positive ROI whatsoever. They just like to throw their money away.
        Right?
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
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          • Profile picture of the author mil0x
            Cold Calling only converts at a 1:100 ratio giving you a conversion rate of a mere 1%.. So this means that for every 100 phone calls you make you are only likely to close just 1 deal.. and that '1 deal' isn't even guaranteed.
            Making 100 calls a day takes about 90 minutes - that is if you manually dial.
            So that would mean 1 sale a day. 1 sale can easily be in the $1,000+ range. So what's so horrible about cold calling again :confused:

            The average warrior does not have thousands of telemarketers on their payroll.. They do not have buildings full of telemarketers who generate millions of calls per day..
            No, they don't. And that's the beauty of cold calling isn't it? One can pick up the phonebook, and start dialing with their phones. In the beginning they may only close 1 out of 200 dials. Then you'll quickly grow to the 1/100 level typically. So you spend anywhere from 90 minutes to 3 hours hitting the phones to land a $1,000+ deal. You could do this 3 times a week and work the other 2 days on getting the actual work done OR you can outsource it and make 5+ sales per week. So that's $3k-$5k per week without any startup money - according to your own theory of ''only'' 1 out of 100 converting.
            So what's so horrible about cold calling again?

            .. and how long does it take to make 100 calls? half a day? a whole day? a week?
            It takes about 90 minutes as stated above. Perhaps you should try it once?

            Look, apparentely you get good results from your direct mail/flyer campaign or whatever it is. Good for you. I just don't see why you have to bash a very established marketing method that has proven time after time to be greatly effective when you clearly have no experience actually doing it (the suggestion that 100 calls might take half or a whole day or even a week)..
            Be open is all I'm saying.
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      • Profile picture of the author mak25
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

        Blah, blah, blah, I'm spouting the same old sh*t.

        I have nothing to contribute, except to bust the b*lls of those who prospect by phone.

        Blah, blah, blah, just more condescending BS to spew.

        I'm disgusting if you ask me.
        You know Mr. Tex-ass, I've watched your MO.

        You seem to crawl out from under your rock whenever a thread about prospecting by
        phone seems to appear.

        You add nothing constructive. All you seem to do is belittle those who choose a method
        that fits them.

        If you're so successful as you claim to be, I have yet to find any thread started by you
        that educates, informs, and teaches your methods of prospecting.

        By that I don't mean a bullet list of activities you find to be more advantageous than
        phone prospecting. Any knucklehead can do that.

        I mean a meaningful, insightful, step-by-step instructive thread outlining and detailing
        the many ways you have found to be far superior than, as you call it: "crank calling".

        If you can't man-up and start such a thread to once and for all prove and educate to those
        who would greatly benefit from your self-proclaimed superiority, then may I suggest one simple act for you:

        Crawl back into your hole and beat-it punk.

        Your condescending ways may be a glimpse as to your true personality.
        And that for me, truly disgusts me.

        Peace.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

          ~Yeah great...

          BUT the big question is why do you have to keep trying to get new business every day?

          This is what gets me about "cold calling". You have to spend how many hours of each day cold calling new bizz? Why? Why not simply go for 5-10 high paying montlhy clients and then you do not have to slave away making those cold calls. And when do you actually get any work done?

          Is that the life you want? Every day...claling strangers selling to them? What happened to buisness? Passive income?

          My 2 cents and I have no doubts i am going to get flamed to death here soon. (i know who by)

          BUT if you have to keep cold calling for new biz...something is wrong with your business modul. I can understand the need to do it to start with or even every so often if clients drop out....but every day? That isn't right.

          Good luck.
          Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

          My remark was more about cold calling in general than on your post. But thx for the reply.

          My point being.....if you have to keep cold calling for business maybe something is wrong with your business?
          The big question, is why would you stop seeking out NEW business? Why have 10 monthly clients when you can have 100? Why have 100 when you can have 1,000?

          That makes no sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnDavid
    So let's have a race...

    You send out a DM campaign...I'll pick up the phone...

    I'll have a new client before you even get to the post office.

    I like to do target mail also...but the phone is still the most potent, least expensive, and greatest relationship starting device on the planet. It's all in how you approach it.

    It's not worth arguing about, it all works. What doesn't work is sitting around wondering what does work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    I'm sure it does, but just makes me wonder if OP is out to publish a WSO or something. LoL I remember reading his original thread on his first cold call ever and how it was a massive success. Now I am like hey, wait a minute.

    If indeed he is lying, which is what it definitely looks like, then he is just making the successful cold callers on the forum look bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    Amazing how a thread can go from one thing to the next real fast around here...

    Look guys - EVERYTHING works if you work it. And EVERYONE has their own method to the madness and tends to stick with what works for them. If it produces great results for them, then what's the fuss?

    Think about it - Is it hurting your business or taking money out of your pocket because someone is using a method that you don't use or don't care for?

    The back and forth here is like a football player who excels at football telling a basketball player that the only way to be a "real athlete" is to play football. If the basketball player gives it a shot, he may not be good at it. I think you get my point...

    This subforum is to talk about and share strategies and ideas relating to offline marketing, not to try to debunk other people's methods. It's a complete waste of time and does nothing more than make you look silly in the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

      Amazing how a thread can go from one thing to the next real fast around here...

      Look guys - EVERYTHING works if you work it. And EVERYONE has their own method to the madness and tends to stick with what works for them. If it produces great results for them, then what's the fuss?

      Think about it - Is it hurting your business or taking money out of your pocket because someone is using a method that you don't use or don't care for?

      The back and forth here is like a football player who excels at football telling a basketball player that the only way to be a "real athlete" is to play football. If the basketball player gives it a shot, he may not be good at it. I think you get my point...

      This subforum is to talk about and share strategies and ideas relating to offline marketing, not to try to debunk other people's methods. It's a complete waste of time and does nothing more than make you look silly in the end.
      Only a couple of individuals are trying to "debunk" other methods.

      I'm also a copywriter--and I make a whole lot more money per copywriting project than helping people sell better. And I design websites, but you don't even see me talking about that here.

      Unlike some other people, my income doesn't revolve around forum marketing. So there's no need for me to try and say something else doesn't work.
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      • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        Only a couple of individuals are trying to "debunk" other methods.

        I'm also a copywriter--and I make a whole lot more money per copywriting project than helping people sell better. And I design websites, but you don't even see me talking about that here.

        Unlike some other people, my income doesn't revolve around forum marketing. So there's no need for me to try and say something else doesn't work.
        No worries Jason - wasn't singling anyone out here in particular, but just thinking out loud in general. You've posted a heck of a lot more helpful tips and contribute a lot of GREAT stuff than 95% of the people here.

        Some people, on the other hand - no so much...
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      • Profile picture of the author mak25
        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        Unlike some other people, my income doesn't revolve around forum marketing.
        Wow Jason, that's a low blow.

        Just curious though...if that's a fact, why is your signature bigger than a breadbox?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    Wasn't trying to debunk his method. Just pointing out some inconsistencies.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxrezn
    Cold calling, direct mail, and SEO are tools of the DEVIL!!!! Repent fellow offliners sinners and join Browningism where we market our services at farmers markets and on milk cartons.
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  • Profile picture of the author payoman
    What the hell is going on here? Since when was cold calling expensive/hard to do/low yield? Have you seen my threads? 7.4k last month from cold calling alone? >_>

    Mind = boggled
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  • Profile picture of the author kenneth69
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
      Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

      Are you just making this up? Because in your other thread you state that your first cold call was very recently and about selling web design.

      Here - http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...peechless.html

      Quote 1 - When I finally made my FIRST EVER cold call, I didn't know what to expect.. but I prepared a script and off I went. I went on google and found a roofing company with a TERRIBLE website (looked like it was straight out of 1995!) and decided to make the call.

      Quote 2 - This was all from my first cold call ever - beginners luck? I am actually speechless. I'm meeting with this guy on Monday at the company headquarters and I am anxious and excited. I can't believe this.
      Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post

      Mav I was just about to post the same thing.

      It seems people around here resort to creating lies to push the idea that cold calling works.

      But we all know who is behind these false accounts.

      Disgusting if you ask me.
      Let me clear up the "confusion" here.

      Yes, I did do work at a call centre from September 2011 - February 2012. The thread I posted previously was a reference to my first cold call ever as an INDIVIDUAL -- a reference to my first try at what I had been researching in the forum of which I was sharing my experience.

      I have yet to ever fabricate anything. If you want proof of me working at that facility, I'll provide it in a heart beat. I would benefit nothing from wasting time writing up a false story. Everything here is 100% ACCURATE and if you feel as though it's not, that's up to you, but I have no problem providing proof.

      This was supposed to be a neat story from my past as a telemarketer in order to encourage those of whom are looking to get into cold calling. Those of whom think I'm contributing to this forum just to market a future WSO are ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS.

      I'm a new member here, and I already love the Offline Marketing Forum. I was simply trying to contribute here and share some past experiences. My apologies if there was any misunderstanding between my job of which consisted of outbound cold calls months and months ago and my efforts to break into cold calling individually, as frequently discussed in this forum.

      Sorry for any confusion there. Hopefully at least some people can enjoy the story. If not, I'm sorry to hear.

      It seems this thread has become something much more than the discussion of my experience here, but rather a debate between the advantages and disadvantages of cold calls. Intriguing.

      Thanks to everyone who was not so quick to throw me under the bus, and I'm sorry to every person who was misunderstood. I should have clarified.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
        Originally Posted by Alanis Morissette View Post

        Let me clear up the "confusion" here.
        Sorry about the confusion.

        The wording of the first thread about your amazing first cold call ever just made me actually think it was your first cold call ever and not as an individual.

        Thank you for clearing this up.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
          Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

          Sorry about the confusion.

          The wording of the first thread about your amazing first cold call ever just made me actually think it was your first cold call ever and not as an individual.

          Thank you for clearing this up.
          You're welcome! Tbh when I made that thread I wasn't even thinking about my days in a call center haha. It was fully focused on my journey of making cold calls to local businesses for my web design project. Irrelevant of one another but I can understand the confusion! Should have clarified.

          Thanks for reading though!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    LOL but such a big "signature box" to advertise in this forum for free.........Bit hypocrytical me thinks!

    Unlike some other people, my income doesn't revolve around forum marketing. So there's no need for me to try and say something else doesn't work. Jason Kanigan | Did you miss my FREE Offline Sales Training? | I write WSO Copy that Sells
    $ SALES ON FIRE: 1-on-1 Call Gets Rid of Your Cold Calling Fears FOREVER ...
    $ Or Get the Recorded Version if you're on a budget - CLOSING AUG 11
    $ STOP GETTING HUNG UP ON with my Call Training and Script Consultation
    $ Localincomelab.com interviews me on selling | How To Get ME as your Webinar Guest
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    i am not saying that. But it doe seem ro be many peope biz module. So they aren't Int marketers or product producers but phone sellers. If you spend 10 hours a day ,makjnig 100 + calls to get 1 new cusotmers. Where does that leave you any time at all to service existing clients, upsell, create new products etc?

    And isn't this simply a job then? Slave to time?

    I can fully understand say hittign the phone to get 20+ clienbts but then stop and build it up more passivley or just upsel lcurrent customers.

    If you keep selling $100 web sites.....nothing else. It's a daily grind. Not a business.

    Oh and a lot of scams are promoted via the cold calling route. So you might be guilty by "association" I knew a company in Sotuh Africa that sold bogus fake wine invesmtents to US Dr's. ($900M over 8 years they took..got closed down in 2002.) Obviously with scam it's not about word of mouth or legit advertising methods. Personally, I wouldn't touch anything made by a cold call. I might look into it....but I'd be so annoyed at the cold call taking my time up I doubt it.

    The big question, is why would you stop seeking out NEW business? Why have 10 monthly clients when you can have 100? Why have 100 when you can have 1,000?

    That makes no sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      If you spend 10 hours a day ,makjnig 100 + calls to get 1 new cusotmers. Where does that leave you any time at all to service existing clients, upsell, create new products etc?

      Please excuse me, but if it takes a person 10 HOURS to make 100 calls, they need serious assistance.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      i am not saying that. But it doe seem ro be many peope biz module. So they aren't Int marketers or product producers but phone sellers. If you spend 10 hours a day ,makjnig 100 + calls to get 1 new cusotmers. Where does that leave you any time at all to service existing clients, upsell, create new products etc?

      And isn't this simply a job then? Slave to time?

      I can fully understand say hittign the phone to get 20+ clienbts but then stop and build it up more passivley or just upsel lcurrent customers.

      If you keep selling $100 web sites.....nothing else. It's a daily grind. Not a business.

      Oh and a lot of scams are promoted via the cold calling route. So you might be guilty by "association" I knew a company in Sotuh Africa that sold bogus fake wine invesmtents to US Dr's. ($900M over 8 years they took..got closed down in 2002.) Obviously with scam it's not about word of mouth or legit advertising methods. Personally, I wouldn't touch anything made by a cold call. I might look into it....but I'd be so annoyed at the cold call taking my time up I doubt it.
      Bro... there are a lot of scams going on that are done through email, craigslist, TV, direct mailing, etc. Telemarketing isn't the only route for that, you know this!

      You might be annoyed at the cold call, but when I call, I'm offering something someone needs.

      The goal isn't to just slam the phone 12 hours a day, but you can. You don't need to be the one working on the projects. I know that I work on some of the projects I sell, but I also have a full team I delegate tasks to. The majority of my time is spent on revenue generating activities.

      I don't cold calling selling $100 websites... I sell $1,000 websites all day. EVERYONE goes with $35/mo hosting/maintenance, most people I upsell more than that.

      100 calls will take me MAYBE 2 hours to make. With an average price point of $1,000 per site, and 100 calls per sale (for me I'm at about 1 per 50 calls), an 8 hour day brings you 4 sales. $4,000/day.... $20,000/wk....$80,000+/mo.

      I will NEVER be happy with what I have as passive income that just comes in monthly. I ALWAYS work to expand the brand, and get new customers as well as introducing old customers new services.

      I've been saying this for the past year, to people cold calling, and people sending DM, people using classified ads, etc. There is a difference between making sales and building a business.

      There is no point, in being satisfied where you are, because once you're happy with that, that is going to be the downfall of your business. I respect the point you're making, because passive income is definitely needed, but realistically, I know that most people who do this, will never be satisfied with a certain amount of income.

      For me... its more than the money. I have specific goals I want to meet.

      You're smart sloanjim, you already know all this but you got me rambling lol! I think everyone can appreciate your point, but you also know as well as anyone else, an entrepreneur wants to see their baby grow into a star. It's more than the money.... sometimes its even more than the goals you set. I personally have become addicted to building businesses, learning different techniques, becoming a student of my industry, and on top of that making some money to play around with.

      We all already know, the phone is amazing to get some quick sales. We know that direct mailing is a very useful tool, it works awesome and I absolutely love it. It's probably my favorite form of marketing because testing the conversions is FUN to me. PPC, we all know works if you have an optimized campaign and know what you're doing... there are SOO MANY forms of marketing that WORK. Even email marketing works... I've been boosting my sales doing a few things different with email marketing and it has been phenomenal.

      I can appreciate every form of marketing.... I just don't understand why other people want to put one form down. Why? Your personal thoughts don't change the efficiency and effectiveness of a marketing technique. I don't like have flyers stuck on my windshield, it pisses me off, but I know they convert... everything converts. That's marketing.

      I think everyone here has something they can learn from other people.

      I don't think we need to make claims in order to make people "be on our side" or back anything up. Everything works... there is no sense in trying to talk down another form of marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    I am sure running dow the street naked with your web site name tatooed to your backside might get a few clients.....but you want to do it?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      I am sure running dow the street naked with your web site name tatooed to your backside might get a few clients.....but you want to do it?
      You are right, getting teenagers to walk down the street in boiling sun passing out flyers and being underpaid is much more becoming.

      Sending people mail in important "legit" looking packages, just so they can open it it in the middle of their busy day, only to find out it is a solicitation is much better.

      Never mind how many of them view it and say "God Im so tired of getting this trash in the mail" and literally throw it away, cursing under their breath at the people who keep wasting their time making them open junk mail.

      You are right, thats much more civil.

      Influencing people into thinking they need to pay you $5000 for something you outsource to the Philippines for $100 bucks- taking advantage of poor under paid talent, instead of paying them what you would an American... is much more civilized "positioning".

      I can tell you that when I outsource to another country, I pay them what I pay an American.

      Positioning, and appearances are not the same as true "worth". You confuse the two. Conversion is conversion, no matter how you position it. And the cost of making 5 sales with a telemarketer is no higher than the cost of doing it via direct mail, only you get results faster, and you actually provide a good opportunity for a person to make money with you and to develop as a business person in the process.

      And perhaps when you have thousands to spend on direct mail, and can withstand the time frame of getting a pipeline going , it is more effortless. I will give credit where it is due.

      Telling people who cant afford that, that they are scum for doing everything they can with what they have is much more humane.

      I feel you sloanjim.
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      • Profile picture of the author payoman
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        You are right, getting teenagers to walk down the street in boiling sun passing out flyers and being underpaid is much more becoming.

        Sending people mail in important "legit" looking packages, just so they can open it it in the middle of their busy day, only to find out it is a solicitation is much better.

        Never mind how many of them view it and say "God Im so tired of getting this trash in the mail" and literally throw it away, cursing under their breath at the people who keep wasting their time making them open junk mail.

        You are right, thats much more civil.

        Influencing people into thinking they need to pay you $5000 for something you outsource to the Philippines for $100 bucks- taking advantage of poor under paid talent, instead of paying them what you would an American... is much more civilized "positioning".

        I can tell you that when I outsource to another country, I pay them what I pay an American.

        Positioning, and appearances are not the same as true "worth". You confuse the two. Conversion is conversion, no matter how you position it. And the cost of making 5 sales with a telemarketer is no higher than the cost of doing it via direct mail, only you get results faster, and you actually provide a good opportunity for a person to make money with you and to develop as a business person in the process.

        And perhaps when you have thousands to spend on direct mail, and can withstand the time frame of getting a pipeline going , it is more effortless. I will give credit where it is due.

        Telling people who cant afford that, that they are scum for doing everything they can with what they have is much more humane.

        I feel you sloanjim.
        Wait, so you have never actually sold Web Design + SEO?

        Because I would assume you outsource those services if you did sell them?

        Also John, I wouldn't have thought you considered outsourcing for low-wages a bad thing?

        If they are willing to work for that amount, that is their choice. Just as it's any American's choice to work at McDonalds. If you choose to eat junk food and become obese, that's your choice. If you choose to work for peanuts, that's your choice too.

        I read somewhere that some people value security much more than money. So perhaps that is what these Filipino people want, more than money?

        I don't know, this just struck me as a little odd coming from you?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by payoman View Post

          Wait, so you have never actually sold Web Design + SEO?

          Because I would assume you outsource those services if you did sell them?

          Also John, I wouldn't have thought you considered outsourcing for low-wages a bad thing?

          If they are willing to work for that amount, that is their choice. Just as it's any American's choice to work at McDonalds. If you choose to eat junk food and become obese, that's your choice. If you choose to work for peanuts, that's your choice too.

          I read somewhere that some people value security much more than money. So perhaps that is what these Filipino people want, more than money?

          I don't know, this just struck me as a little odd coming from you?
          Payoman, I promise you with all my heart that

          A: I have sold more web design than any single person on this forum including main discussion people. Possibly even "combined" and I say that not arrogantly, just stating what is in all probability a fact.

          We arent talking a few clients, we are talking TENS OF THOUSANDS of clients.

          B: Yes I do outsource, and I pay people outsourcers pay that I can mark up, but it is FAIR pay, and its equal pay that I would pay ANYONE for that job... and often more than they ask for because I dont allow people to belittle themselves when working with me.

          I even got into a semi arguement with a graphic designer right here on the forum the other day because they wouldnt accept the pay that I thought they were worth, because they are from Africa- That means nothing to me- only talent and worth. I dont want bad karma for taking advantage of people just because they dont see their worth. I am smart enough to be fair and still make profit.

          C: The longer you get to know me, the less odd you will find that.

          You HAVE to mark up outsourcers work, but you dont have HAVE to take advantage of their low self esteem just because its there, you can choose to make money and simultaneously bring UP the people around you.

          -JD

          Ps.

          Just like Im sure you have read my "power posting" report for free.

          You can get business from forums, which we loosely call forum marketing, but as you can see by my example , you dont HAVE to try and fool people into thinking you dont make money at it- you CAN put out a free report and teach them to do it right for themselves as well...and help the ones who help you to help themselves and grow.

          Im about making money, and also about "bringing people up".
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          • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            A: I have sold more web design than any single person on this forum including main discussion people.
            That is a very bold statement. I hope there is truth behind this. i.e can you back up this claim? - If not, we all know what this is called. (It begins with the letter L)
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

              That is a very bold statement. I hope there is truth behind this. i.e can you back up this claim? - If not, we all know what this is called. (It begins with the letter L)
              Murdock,

              I have already backed it up a 100 times and had doubters here do everything but access my personal bank account to verify it, and have even called my past clients and employers to check me out.

              I built a company for a man with a handful of telemarketers into selling 50 million dollars worth of web design business and having 100 TMS in his first year and a half of starting it , and the company later sold to prodigy international (on record) for over 800 million dollars with over 80,000 web clients across america, under my management and using my scripts, and under my live training and motivation.

              Then I went on and did it for 3 other companies and created for MYSELF an offline affiliate army of 2000 people who all paid me 300.00 just to become an affiliate...

              TODAY, Im walking proof on the warrior forum that I have risen to the top of my ONLINE training career about as high as a man could go.

              I have a six figure forum, that I dont even work on half the time... but plan to get back to working in more.

              I am my own proof. Its clear Im an above average achiever even in a place as huge as the warrior forum.

              I have more thanks than posts because I cant even COUNT how many people I have helped make their first offline sales here.

              And Im running out of fingers on the people I have helped to promote themselves online as well.

              I dont speak unsurely.

              Ps. These claims were proven long ago, but if you think Im smart enough to stay in the Warrior game as an over achiever this long, which is clear, then do you also think Im dumb enough to blow it at this stage with a big lie?

              The problem you are having is that kind of success is unbelievable to you, and I understand. Its almost unbelievable to me too...but its true.

              Now do I make 50 million dollars per year personally ? No.

              Have I sold hundreds of websites personally? Yes, maybe even more than a thousand.

              Have I trained telemarketers to sell 10's of thousands of clients and watched over every sale myself? Yes.

              Have I seen just about every form of telemarketing success and failure and worked with it hands on personally to help others produce?
              Yes.

              Am I the absolute best in my field...? Yes, but Ken Michaels is also on that level, so Im not alone.
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              • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                I have already backed it up a 100 times and had doubters here do everything but access my personal bank account to verify it, and have even called my past clients and employers to check me out.

                I built a company for a man with a handful of telemarketers into selling 50 million dollars worth of business and having 100 of them in his first year and a half of starting it , and the company later sold to prodigy international (on record) for over 800 million dollars with over 80,000 web clients across america, under my management and using my scripts, and my training.

                Then I went on and did it for 3 other companies and created for MYSELF an offline affiliate army of 2000 people who all paid me 300.00 just to become an affiliate...
                Prove it.

                Not so many people on this forum are easily fooled anymore John.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                  Prove it.

                  Not so many people on this forum are easily fooled anymore John.
                  I have done proven it a million times. You are no one to me to make me do it again. Look up my post trail and find it all yourself. You are nobody for me to prove anything to.

                  I have to prove it every time a new cycle comes into this forum and my last round was my last round of proving the same point a hundred times.

                  You think you are unique sizing me up and challenging me?

                  You think I havent withstood this crap before?

                  Dont be lazy. If you want to know me then look it up.

                  You can start with "bizonthe.net" that was the first company located on Nolensville road in Nashville tennessee, the call center that promoted the site was called com 1 and I was the general of that army. Its easy enough to verify with a little homework.

                  Thats just the "beginning"...

                  But on another note... you saying "prove it" to me, and critisizing me is laughable.

                  I have forgotten more about selling websites than you will know in the next ten years!

                  Perhaps after you check me out an apology will be in order. I will wait for it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
                    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                    You are nobody for me to prove anything to
                    That is very harsh.

                    If you won't prove it to me, then at least you'll prove it to the rest of the forum?

                    I have forgotten more about selling websites than you will know in the next ten years!
                    This is also very harsh. I am just someone who want's to learn

                    If someone makes claims I think that they must then offer some validation to prove the claims as something more than unsubstantiated or false.
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                    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                      Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post


                      If someone makes claims I think that they must then offer some validation to prove the claims as something more than unsubstantiated or false.
                      like your buddy adrians claim to be making 70 mill a year ?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
                      Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                      That is very harsh.
                      If you won't prove it to me, then at least you'll prove it to the rest of the forum?
                      Can't you read? He already has.
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                      "Be the hero of your own movie."
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                    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                      Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                      That is very harsh.

                      If you won't prove it to me, then at least you'll prove it to the rest of the forum?



                      This is also very harsh. I am just someone who want's to learn

                      If someone makes claims I think that they must then offer some validation to prove the claims as something more than unsubstantiated or false.
                      No murdock, you are not just someone who wants to learn,. If you were I would greet you with love and not harshness. You are someone who joined adrian in the thread that got closed in bashing cold callers.

                      If your demeanor toward me changes mine will too. As far as proving to the rest of the forum. I have made this claim for years, and have had threads 200 posts deep proving it, you think I would still be here if I didnt come out clean in the wash?

                      I dont have time for another proving thread, and this round of Warriors is no different from the last.

                      Like I said, look up the prodigy international buyout of bizonthe net, then look up com1 and find out who ran that place. That will be the beginning.

                      Why should I have to prove anything, that I have already proven, when you are smart enough , and so are 100,000 other warriors to investigate. Im not that stupid.

                      Unlike some I use my real name that I have always used, Im easy to track, there is nothing to hide. I have gone as far as even listing my physical street address here, trying to debunk people who thought I was fake.

                      Unlike some who claim to make 70 million and have companies that no one can find.

                      ps. One of the guys you were arguing with on that thread has built a 40 million dollar company that he DID actually own, and another that you were arguing with had made 100k that same WEEK!

                      It was laughable.

                      Dont underestimate people.
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                    • Profile picture of the author abbot
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                      This is also very harsh. I am just someone who want's to learn
                      Good luck with learning anything. You might as well prepare yourself for failure right now. If you were here to learn you would have an open mind to any and all advice given. Instead, you choose to bash someone who has helped this forum for years and made people their first "independent money".

                      Who are you to even call someone out? What have you contributed here? NOTHING.
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                      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                        Originally Posted by abbot View Post

                        Good luck with learning anything. You might as well prepare yourself for failure right now. If you were here to learn you would have an open mind to any and all advice given. Instead, you choose to bash someone who has helped this forum for years and made people their first "independent money".

                        Who are you to even call someone out? What have you contributed here? NOTHING.

                        Its okay Abott,. I eat haters like this for breakfast everyday, he's going to end up changing his username by the time Im done with him.
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                        • Profile picture of the author abbot
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                          Its okay Abott,. I eat haters like this for breakfast everyday, he's going to end up changing his username by the time Im done with him.
                          I just don't get it..

                          What is the point of snooping around a marketing forum looking for places to stir up trouble?

                          Disappointed with their own lives?
                          Not happy with their success?
                          Mad at the world?
                          The method didn't work for them?
                          ol' lady isn't satisfying them?

                          NONE of these are appetizing reasons to bash a marketing method(s) were new people are trying to learn.. Hell..Id rather walk around downtown handing random people fliers..at least I would be productive. You think doing this is going to start a business?

                          When I first started I had NO choice but to make money. I had a child, and had to provide for him. I scrounged this forum for a week for some info then hit the roads with my own marketing plan. You think it was a good marketing plan? Hell no it wasn't..but it made me my first thousand dollars in which I spent on diapers, toys, and food for my son.

                          As things progressed I learned more and more. I didn't care what people said worked, I did it anyway. That's because I had that burning NEED for success. This HAD to work, there was no way out.

                          Until some of these people are faced with the same circumstances they will never understand why trash talking is completely unacceptable. I didn't have the time of day to sit and do this a year ago. I was either working my night job, eating, sleeping, or marketing my own business on every spare second I had. I remember slowly taking away an hour of sleep each night until I got to the point were my body could function on 4 hours a sleep every night. I worked 8 hours a day at my "job" and that left me with 12 hours a day to market and grow my business. Now you think I would ever consider spending an hour of it on a forum were people are bashing this method or that method? NO. I would do my own methods and produce results that these people are claiming to be unrealistic...

                          They need to think again...
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                          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                            Originally Posted by abbot View Post

                            I just don't get it..

                            What is the point of snooping around a marketing forum looking for places to stir up trouble?

                            Disappointed with their own lives?
                            Not happy with their success?
                            Mad at the world?
                            The method didn't work for them?
                            ol' lady isn't satisfying them?

                            NONE of these are appetizing reasons to bash a marketing method(s) were new people are trying to learn.. Hell..Id rather walk around downtown handing random people fliers..at least I would be productive. You think doing this is going to start a business?

                            When I first started I had NO choice but to make money. I had a child, and had to provide for it. I scrounged this forum for a week for some info then hit the roads with my own marketing plan. You think it was a good marketing plan? Hell no it wasn't..but it made me my first thousand dollars in which I spent on diapers, toys, and food for my son.

                            As things progressed I learned more and more. I didn't care what people said worked, I did it anyway. That's because I had that burning NEED for success. This HAD to work, there was no way out.

                            Until some of these people are faced with the same circumstances they will never understand why trash talking is completely unacceptable. I didn't have the time of day to sit and do this a year ago. I was either working my night job, eating, sleeping, or marketing my own business on every spare second I had. I remember slowly taking away an hour of sleep each night until I got to the point were my body could function on 4 hours a sleep every night. I worked 8 hours a day at my "job" and that left me with 12 hours a day to market and grow my business. Now you think I would ever consider spending an hour of it on a forum were people are bashing this method or that method? NO. I would do my own methods and produce results that these people are claiming to be unrealistic...

                            They need to think again...
                            Believe it or not, there are those that have a marketing plan just based on talking trash on those that are successful. They run their hidden agenda with fake user names, fake claims, and a blog that they update taking stabs at some of us, and using affiliate links on another blog to sell fountain pens... so yeah, it's safe to say they aren't very successful.

                            Most members can see, who here is helping and who is here wanting to just stir **** up.
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                            • Profile picture of the author abbot
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                              Believe it or not, there are those that have a marketing plan just based on talking trash on those that are successful. They run their hidden agenda with fake user names, fake claims, and a blog that they update taking stabs at some of us, and using affiliate links on another blog to sell fountain pens... so yeah, it's safe to say they aren't very successful.

                              Most members can see, who here is helping and who is here wanting to just stir **** up.
                              You see..I get all that. That's in every industry. I just don't see WHY. Your here to form your own business, your own money making machine, to learn, and to give...THAT'S IT.

                              I guess I just lived a different life then most people. having a son at 20 years old makes you grow up quick..at times I think some people should be faced with that FEAR, NEED, and DRIVE for one day. They may see that this is uncalled for. If you really NEED something, you will do anything to get it. Apparently these guys don't NEED this too bad...

                              Wouldn't you rather spend the day accomplishing something? With all the BS they type, they could probably have a hella sales letter going on right now..
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              • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                the company later sold to prodigy international (on record) for over 800 million dollars, under my management and using my scripts, and under my live training and motivation.
                Then I went on and did it for 3 other companies and created for MYSELF an offline affiliate army of 2000 people who all paid me 300.00
                I am interested in the legitimacy of these claims.

                Because allegedly John was the reason that a company sold for nearly $1BILLION.

                He also claims to have made $600,000 from an AM campaign, but yet his signature points to a website where he is trying to sell phone scripts at $300 a pop.

                Something just isn't adding up here.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                  I am interested in the legitimacy of these claims.

                  Because apparently John was the reason that a company sold for nearly $1BILLION. He also claims to have made $600,000 from an AM campaign, but yet his signature points to a website where he is trying to sell phone scripts at $300 a pop.

                  Something just isn't adding up here.
                  It would probably also not add up to you that my friend David Weinberg built a 300 million dollar company (DW Wallcoverings) starting with 26k, and he now lives in a spare bedroom at his moms and cant afford to fix his trucks alternator.

                  Great heights sometimes lead to great falls.

                  I dont expect most people to understand that kind of success. I dont expect you to also believe that I have co written songs with the top producers in Nashville and have recorded with the greatest musicians of all time... but I did.

                  It is the life of an achiever of great things, to be misunderstood constantly by people who dont get the mentality.

                  You may see me selling $300.00 scripts, and not know me, but 4,000 warriors who are members of my forum, know that its worth six figures per year and I only currently visit it twice per month...

                  I would bet that given your logic you wouldnt even believe six figures, for a guy selling three hundred dollar scripts, but its right in front of your face. You probabl;y wouldnt even believe that I have sold 80k just on WSO pro itself in the last two year and have 3 other processors to boot, but ANYONE can go look it up...

                  There are alot of things that you may not believe. Huge success is unbelievable to most.

                  My friend I referred to...nobody even CARES that he made a 300 million dollar company anymore, because he's broken from it... but he is 100 times the man than 99 out of a hundred men who will ever shake his hand will ever be.

                  In any event. Yes my claims are true, and Im sorry that you cant make the jump of making it all add up. But read this post carefully so I dont have to answer the same questions over.

                  Again, you are not trying to learn, you are trying bash someone who you think fancies themselves a guru, because your ego cant handle that a person hangin out in a forum, could possibly have surpassed your own success that far...

                  Fact is there are TONS of people here who have made tens of millions that you probably wouldnt believe. Im not going to bear the cross for all of us this time.

                  BTW:

                  Whats so hard to believe about a man saying he was the GM for a company that went public?

                  lol

                  Did I say I made 18billion dollars?

                  No I said I sold 50 million dollars worth of business, and personally trained 100 telemarketers to sell over 20,000 websites in a years time if you look up the consistent claim I have made for years now.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
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                    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                      Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                      Well John if this is true, then what type of publishing deal did you have? What Publishing company where/are you under contract to?

                      Again, we aren't easily fooled anymore.




                      This is very true John. So please don't side step my earlier question. You said and I QUOTE



                      Were you really the reason that a company sold for nearly $1Billion?

                      I think it is only right that the members of this forum be presented with some proof to substantiate these claims.




                      That claim is only consistent because nobody has called you on it.

                      But if I am wrong, then surely it would be very easy for you to provide everyone with some proof?
                      Okay, so you want to be David and come out with your slingshot thinking you are going to kill Goliath.

                      One of the publishing companies I have songs published with is rowest records, the owners name is Brent Rowan, we have co written 5-6 songs together, and he is a top producer on leanne rymes Garth Brooks records and 300 other recording artists from sawyer brown to peter cetera that I dont have time to list. That is just ONE of my publishers. His website is online, if you are fortunate enough to get ahold of him, and yes he DOES sometimes answer his emails, he will confirm that you.

                      I have also written a slew of songs with 400 top forty hit songwriter charlie craig who recently passed away on "we aim high" records and publishing...we cut all our demos at the old RCA studios, or at Arista...regularly.

                      I have also published songs With an independent nashville company called Davinci Publishing.

                      I also had an Artist management contract with Atlantis management group...

                      If you look up BMI and ascap they have records of every published song in the industry, that are accessable to literally any street bum...and you will find my claims to be true.

                      As far as being easily fooled, the way you are looking to me right now- you ARE one. But keep it up, you will get the fools reward.

                      Moving on... Again, you are trying to hang me on a cross and make me do work I have already done, dont be ignorant, you looked up prodigy, look up the rest.

                      On your other point, dont give yourself the credit of thinking you are worth sidestepping even to me...lol I expound because thats who I am, and aside from being a 300 millionaire, my friend is a big enough man to woop your punk A$$ for agreeing with me that nobody cares...

                      Now as to this:

                      Am I the reason the company sold for 18 million...?

                      Yeah Murdock, I negotiated the deal for it to go public and everything....:rolleyes:

                      Here is what I said and its the last time I will repeat it, I dont know what your problem is or if you just arent reading my answers or what...

                      I said I wrote the call scripts, I trained the telemarketers, I oversaw 20,000 sales to website clients all over america, and yes my training and scripts were the reason the company's telemarketing rooms were selling enough to be considered worth a buy out.

                      You are spinning my words and its getting irritating... I never said "Im the reason they sold for 18 billion"... read what I said and approach me with intelligent questions that dont have a spin on them, and that at least SLIGHTLY indicate that you read the previous answers.

                      You are messing with a guy that you cant beat right now...but go ahead.

                      BTW are you still holding to your innocence that you just want to learn...? Because I think your motives are showing a bit.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
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                        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                          Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                          Some may find it offensive that you refer to someone as David, and yourself as Goliath.



                          John, all of this should be on record on a least 1 website. Crediting you as writer..

                          So again, I ask that you show us the proof.

                          At least a list of websites that everyone on this forum can navigate to and see this information as fact.

                          Shouldn't be too difficult. Unless it is a Fib.



                          This is harsh and I deem it as highly abusive language. I dont expect someone who supposedly can generate $1Billion for someone to be so angry and threatening, for no reason.



                          Please John, don't mix your words now.

                          You CLEARLY said and I quote





                          Yes, that is because your claim very CLEARY stated that under your management, they sold for 800 MILLION.

                          John really, all I want to SEE not READ is proof.

                          Every time you reply, you add another unsubstantiated claim.

                          How about you show some evidence. How about you demonstrate to everyone that you are trustworthy John?
                          [/QUOTE]

                          It was 800 million and I was just responding to your words, and mistook the b for an 8 because I have been writing scripts all night and am tired.

                          Now as far as me claiming Im the reason it sold for that much, even in your very quotes I still dont see me claiming that. I see me claiming that I trained the telemarketers, wrote the scripts and oversaw the sales of 20,000 websites in a year that I managed... I will take it further I even saved the owners ass by writing to scripts and teaching the telemarketers to credit card close when they changed the billing laws so that you were no longer allowed to bill on peoples phone bills...

                          NEVER did I say Im the solitary reason it sold and went public...Your arguments are getting weaker and less substantiated.

                          you have called me on an eyesight mistake. OOOOH dont trust John... he mistook a "B" for an "8"!!!


                          Lets all follow Murdock now! He can see better! lol

                          I was just going along with YOUR line, I have said 800 million from the beginning before ever came here, but it was worthless to go back and say that so I went along with your figure... mistakenly, it was a "b".

                          Okay going back...you said I thought 18 billion, and I retaliated saying million, simply because Im tired right now, typing fast, and am making typos left and right.... again you can google this stuff.

                          You actually said 1Billion, and I misread the b.

                          In either event, my TIRED logic adds up better than your best thought out logic.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Murdock Lois
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                            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                              Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                              Funny you say that John.

                              I have checked both Ascap and BMI and found not one mention of a john Durham.

                              Furthermore, you have provided nothing in the form of evidence to support your unfounded claims.

                              I have no wish to argue with an untrustworthy character.
                              No you havent. I know that for a fact.

                              How can you argue with me if you cant even do basic research?

                              I will come back later and check and finish this debate... I have no more time for you right now.


                              I dont weant to open another can of worms for you to spin because none of them will have the same details I just gave you except for my stuff...so when you find it, you will see the details I gave you...however there are probaly 20-30 John Durhams on BMI and ASCAP...

                              It ridiculous to say you couldnt find a mention of a John Durham.

                              In any event, here is your motivation: You want to make a name for yourself by beating me in a debate, and thats ALL you want.

                              You are riding the coat tails of someone you see as greater than yourself, because you dont have anything legit to offer.

                              I have seen it 100 times, the mods have seen it 100 times...you are the only one here who thinks you are doing something new.

                              It would be interesting to know how much your IP has in common with others who use the same language in arguments BTW.
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                            • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
                              Originally Posted by Murdock Lois View Post

                              Funny you say that John.

                              I have checked both Ascap and BMI and found not one mention of a john Durham.

                              Furthermore, you have provided nothing in the form of evidence to support your unfounded claims.

                              I have no wish to argue with an untrustworthy character.
                              It's obvious you did ZERO research and never bothered to search for a thing. While I don't know John's full name, you can't deny him this:


                              That's just ASCAP - I didn't even check BMI.

                              John - don't waste any more of your time on this troll. It will all blow over soon enough and everyone will be able to get back to business. You don't need to prove anything to him.
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                              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                                Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

                                It's obvious you did ZERO research and never bothered to search for a thing. While I don't know John's full name, you can't deny him this:


                                That's just ASCAP - I didn't even check BMI.

                                John - don't waste any more of your time on this troll. It will all blow over soon enough and everyone will be able to get back to business. You don't need to prove anything to him.
                                Thanks for that. I wasted more than just my own time with this guy....If I had been less tired ot wouldnt have gone there, but he caught me running on fumes, and I wasnt at my best...

                                Wont happen again. Thanks again.
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                                • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                                  Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                                  I wasnt at my best...

                                  Wont happen again. Thanks again.

                                  Even when you are not at your best, you still help people and motivate them.

                                  At some point in their life, probably when its most needed,
                                  someone will read this thread, and see what you have done, and think
                                  to themselves, if this guy can do that, so can I.

                                  The guy who is trying to start problems, and knock you down, doesn't
                                  even realize that in a round about way, he is actually building you up,
                                  and helping you achieve your ultimate goal,

                                  which is helping and motivating those that need it.

                                  IMO, the joke is on him.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                                    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                    Even when you are not at your best, you still help people and motivate them.

                                    At some point in their life, probably when its most needed,
                                    someone will read this thread, and see what you have done, and think
                                    to themselves, if this guy can do that, so can I.

                                    The guy who is trying to start problems, and knock you down, doesn't
                                    even realize that in a round about way, he is actually building you up,
                                    and helping you achieve your ultimate goal,

                                    which is helping and motivating those that need it.

                                    IMO, the joke is on him.

                                    Nice to think of it that way. Thanks guys. I really felt bad walking away from this... Not being in the hot seat so much as just the dark energy of it all... but you helped me see the "light" Ken. So very cool.

                                    -John

                                    Ps. Guys if you want to know who one of "MY" hero's is here, its Ken Michaels. After having gotten to know him a bit more, his accomplishments far outweigh my own, and he is a good guy with a good vision of the world... and if you are one who wonders "Is Ken really that arrogant?"- I think its more that he just knows what he's talking about, and so he speaks in absolutes, as if his word isnt subject to question, so it sounds that way sometimes, because he's very sure, and rightfully so.

                                    Edit: Lol, just figured out who this guy is.... I wont even do him the justice of posting it. Nor myself the harm. But suffice it to say now I REAAALLLY feel stupid giving him the time of day. I thought he was nothing before, but its worse that that...lol

                                    Okay I definitely wont be getting sucked into this again.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
                                  Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                                  Thanks for that. I wasted more than just my own time with this guy....If I had been less tired ot wouldnt have gone there, but he caught me running on fumes, and I wasnt at my best...

                                  Wont happen again. Thanks again.
                                  At least you know how to debate intellectually and make valid arguments. It was a fun read! I understand that it's best not to waste your time and energy on that sort of thing though.

                                  Thanks for adding some educational value to the thread, at the very least!
                                  Signature
                                  "Be the hero of your own movie."
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Hmmm John I was taking the P**. I wouldn't actually recommend wlaking down the street naked to advertise.

    and I never once mentioend using flyers so why are you now going on about that?

    Thx

    Originally Posted by sloanjim
    I am sure running dow the street naked with your web site name tatooed to your backside might get a few clients.....but you want to do it?
    You are right, getting teenagers to walk down the street in boiling sun passing out flyers and being underpaid is much more becoming.

    Sending people mail in important "legit" looking packages, just so they can open it it in the middle of their busy day, only to find out it is a solicitation is much better.

    Never mind how many of them view it and say "God Im so tired of getting this trash in the mail" and literally throw it away, cursing under their breath at the people who keep wasting their time making them open junk mail.

    You are right, thats much more civil.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      Hmmm John I was taking the P**. I wouldn't actually recommend wlaking down the street naked to advertise.

      and I never once mentioend using flyers so why are you now going on about that?

      Thx
      Because flyers and have been the main subject of discussion here...among cold calling naysayers... I was comparing it more to the other forms of marketing that some consider better "positioning" and killing many birds with one stone..., coupled with your feeling that cold calling is bad "positioning".
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Burritt
    This is true of many things, but, from my experience, especially true in phone sales:

    "Anything works, nothing doesn't"

    "Ready, FIRE, Aim"

    "Much easier to steer when you're already moving"

    "How many people have you prospected today?"

    "Practicing the Basics wins ballgames"

    "Make up in Quantity what you lack in skill"

    "All skills are learnable, if we are teachable"

    "Stop organizing your desk, and pick up the phone"
    "Don't get another cup of coffee, until you pick up the phone"
    "Turn off the email, and pick up the phone"
    "Pick up the phone.....

    "Pick up the phone.....

    "Pick up the phone.....

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  • Profile picture of the author rehomenetwork
    Personally, cold calling has always been the best way to gain contacts in a certain location. I always use to do col calling for insurance with a cold call software product.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Dude, it IS on a website, did I not just tell you to look up BMI and ascap? The performing rights organizations with records that any street bum can access?

    How can you be smart enough to debate me if you cant even read?
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  • Profile picture of the author asiamaria
    @ Murdock Lois if you spend this much time and dilligence on your business as you do in trying to take some one down then I guess your business must be a huge success.

    Yea theres plenty of rip offs around, so what, sales pages and bold claims wont make you successful anyway, its how you think, how you implement, why not implement and see what results you get?

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by asiamaria View Post

      @ Murdock Lois if you spend this much time and dilligence on your business as you do in trying to take some one down then I guess your business must be a huge success.

      Yea theres plenty of rip offs around, so what, sales pages and bold claims wont make you successful anyway, its how you think, how you implement, why not implement and see what results you get?

      Lee

      My apologies as well Maria, if I werent tired from working all night I probably wouldnt have even given this person the time of day. Suffice it to say that you would have to be in second grade not to be able to find any John Durham's on the two major performance rights associations on the planet that ALL the sonmgwriters who ever lived in our century HAVE to go through. (or sesac but Im not on sesac, although there are probably John Durhams on it). Im out.

      I have an important cause to work on today.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMNomad
        I like the idea of cold calling to supplement my other burgeoning methods.

        One very positive outcome I received in doing direct-sales is instant feedback on my pitch, which the orginal poster alludes to. I am sure cold-calling can offer the same benefit.

        I helped a friend sell his deodorant stick at a tradeshow. In two hours I was able to refine the message to only a few words that dramatically pushed up sales for the remaining time at the show: "chemical free deodorant" was all I needed to say to start the conversation.

        Getting instantaneous feedback from your prospects is very powerful. Listening for what they respond to and what pushes them away helps clairfy your message.

        I appreciate this post, but wish it would be less about debate and more about what works for you. I can make my own decisions after trying your ideas. I am looking to open my mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
          Originally Posted by IMNomad View Post

          Getting instantaneous feedback from your prospects is very powerful. Listening for what they respond to and what pushes them away helps clairfy your message.
          I agree! Thanks for the input.

          Off topic: Has anybody ever told you that you look awfully similar to Jeff Probst? lol! Maybe it's just the picture.
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  • Profile picture of the author nfb1204
    Great Post trying to get over my fear of the phone!
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