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SEO pricing for client..need advice?

by mrtrance
21 replies
I need to send over an SEO proposal to a potential client that was my referred to me from my current client (also in the same niche but different area). The business is along the lines of a tech school that offers various certificates/degrees which you can complete in 12-18 months. Tuition for each student is round the $10K-$15K and most will get some of sort of government financial aid to cover portions of this cost. They would like to keep their rankings that they have now and also rank for other new keywords as well.

So based on how much each new lead that converts will generate what sort of pricing for SEO should I go in with? Right now they are doing PPC, print ads, etc. I didn't ask exactly how much they are currently spending on total advertisements per month. Is that something I should ask them before I get my pricing done?

I was thinking of going in with like $1497 initial fee (which would be first months SEO fee plus initial setup/optimization) and then $1297/mo for like 5 keywords. What do you guys think? Is there some other way to come to a figure that would make sense for me and them? I don't want to come in really high where they might object, but also I don't want to underprice myself. Since it is a referral they are eager to start right away and have already agreed to a new web design for $1500.
#needed #pricing #seo
  • Profile picture of the author kebertt
    Never underprice your work, it will have a negative effect on the clients expectations. Consider how much time this is going to take you? are you outsourcing the work? what kind of budget do they have for marketing? what are they currently spending on marketing? what is a student worth to them?

    Before throwing out a number, make sure they understand the value of SEO and what it can do for their profits. No one can give you the "right" answer; use your discretion .
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  • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
    First, ask them to do an internal audit of how much 1 new student is worth in terms of profit each semester. This is important in terms of your pricing and your clients expectations because when you ask for 5k because you are adding 20-25k for them it isn't unreasonable because you have shown them what you can generate.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

      First, ask them to do an internal audit of how much 1 new student is worth in terms of profit each semester. This is important in terms of your pricing and your clients expectations because when you ask for 5k because you are adding 20-25k for them it isn't unreasonable because you have shown them what you can generate.
      So asking them about this and getting this type of data from a potential client is not something out of the ordinary then I assume. I think I will get this info before calculating my price point. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author troxik
    Don't underprice ^^
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  • Profile picture of the author ksetu
    Here is a simple way to price it:

    You can take them through this calculation to show the value and how your pricing fits into it:

    Total traffic of all keywords combined together = 1000/m [ based on adwords tool data]
    conversion - 1% [assumption, you can take their numbers]
    => Sale/month - 10
    => ProfitValue/Sale - $5000 [assumption, you can take their numbers]
    => Total ProfitValue - $50000

    You Charge 10% of their profit - $5,000/m

    Above is based on assumed figures. Talk to them and get realistic figures. But above should give you some idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

      Here is a simple way to price it:

      You can take them through this calculation to show the value and how your pricing fits into it:

      Total traffic of all keywords combined together = 1000/m [ based on adwords tool data]
      conversion - 1% [assumption, you can take their numbers]
      => Sale/month - 10
      => ProfitValue/Sale - $5000 [assumption, you can take their numbers]
      => Total ProfitValue - $50000

      You Charge 10% of their profit - $5,000/m

      Above is based on assumed figures. Talk to them and get realistic figures. But above should give you some idea.
      Thanks for that info.

      When you are talking about conversions are you referring to number of people that actually enroll and become a student divide by the number of people that click on their site? But if there are roughly 1000 combined searches say for 5 or 10 keywords I would say they might get 20% of those(if ranking in top 5) so that would be 200 searches total and if we say 1% conversion then 2 new students a month with 5K profit for each so taking 10% of that that would put me at $1K/month. Is that correct?

      When asking them about conversions now (since they might not know how many actually sign up from thru the site) should I be trying to find out how many actually get in contact with them from all their marketing methods and then from those how many sign up? When I talked to them they mentioned they get like 10 new students a month. But I would need to know how many overall came to their site whether from Adwords, paper advertising, etc. correct?

      One thing that I'm concerned with this the search data from Google Adwords keyword tool. When I select "Exact" match some of the keywords I would want them to be ranking for are way under 100 searches per month. Should I be doing "Phrase" instead when dealing with local clients?
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      • Profile picture of the author ksetu
        In this calculation I have directly assumed the traffic to be 1000 assuming a total search volume of 5000 and 20% CTR. Note that I'm saying traffic not search volume here.

        And if client doesn't know about conversion of any specific channel - you can make some fair assumptions or just take a ball-park figure from them for the conversion across all of traffic channels. You can ask how many queries do they get every month and how many they get enrolled. That should give you some idea.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
          Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

          Correct, as you are quoting for a fix number of keywords - that's what you need to do. If they want to target more keywords at same time - they need to pay accordingly.
          Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

          In this calculation I have directly assumed the traffic to be 1000 assuming a total search volume of 5000 and 20% CTR. Note that I'm saying traffic not search volume here.

          And if client doesn't know about conversion of any specific channel - you can make some fair assumptions or just take a ball-park figure from them for the conversion across all of traffic channels. You can ask how many queries do they get every month and how many they get enrolled. That should give you some idea.
          Would you say 5 keywords is a good number to work on at a time or per month for local clients using your calculations and/or if we want like 10% of the profits as you have indicated? How do you determine what the initial number of keywords to be for your fees?

          So for keyword research for local clients you use the Google Keyword tool using broad, phrase, or exact match to come up with 5000 number in your example? What if the 5 keywords I choose at first only have combined search volume of 500 or less in exact match and taking 20% of that then 1% of that gives only 1 new student per month. I guess the key here is picking right keywords, but then again there are many searches for keywords that don't even show up in Google's KW Tool.

          Can you give some more insight on your kw research method?
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  • Profile picture of the author ksetu
    In fact there is another approach which we use sometimes:

    Keyword 1 - Volume: 2000/m, CPC Value:$10
    Keyword 2 - Volume: 1500/m, CPC Value:$8
    Keyword 3 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
    Keyword 4 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
    Keyword 5 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5

    Expected CTR if You Get Them Ranked Among Top 5 = 20%

    Keyword 1 Commercial Value = 2000X0.2X $10 = $4000
    Keyword 2 Commercial Value = 1500X0.2X $8= $2400
    Keyword 3 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
    Keyword 4 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
    Keyword 5 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500

    Total Value Generated By You: $ 7900

    You Take 10% = $790/m

    Again you need to put the correct figures based on adwords tool data.

    Feel free to let me know if you need any help regarding the proposal or seo service.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

      In fact there is another approach which we use sometimes:

      Keyword 1 - Volume: 2000/m, CPC Value:$10
      Keyword 2 - Volume: 1500/m, CPC Value:$8
      Keyword 3 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 4 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 5 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5

      Expected CTR if You Get Them Ranked Among Top 5 = 20%

      Keyword 1 Commercial Value = 2000X0.2X $10 = $4000
      Keyword 2 Commercial Value = 1500X0.2X $8= $2400
      Keyword 3 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 4 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 5 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500

      Total Value Generated By You: $ 7900

      You Take 10% = $790/m

      Again you need to put the correct figures based on adwords tool data.

      Feel free to let me know if you need any help regarding the proposal or seo service.
      So in my proposal should I indicate a certain number of keywords that we will be targeting at at time each month? So if I say I will be charging $2000/mo for 5 keywords and then once we achieve good rankings we can shift focus to next set of 5 keywords and so forth? Is that how you do it for local clients?
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      • Profile picture of the author ksetu
        Correct, as you are quoting for a fix number of keywords - that's what you need to do. If they want to target more keywords at same time - they need to pay accordingly.
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    • Profile picture of the author kylemarvin
      Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

      In fact there is another approach which we use sometimes:

      Keyword 1 - Volume: 2000/m, CPC Value:$10
      Keyword 2 - Volume: 1500/m, CPC Value:$8
      Keyword 3 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 4 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 5 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5

      Expected CTR if You Get Them Ranked Among Top 5 = 20%

      Keyword 1 Commercial Value = 2000X0.2X $10 = $4000
      Keyword 2 Commercial Value = 1500X0.2X $8= $2400
      Keyword 3 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 4 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 5 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500

      Total Value Generated By You: $ 7900

      You Take 10% = $790/m

      Again you need to put the correct figures based on adwords tool data.

      Feel free to let me know if you need any help regarding the proposal or seo service.
      When you say CPC value, where are you pulling that metric? Also, are you valuing total traffic of that keyword or expected SEOT (as Market Samurai calls it)? Cause if you are asking 10% of the total value of one keyword, you need to be in the top 2 positions to make that worth i, because last I checked, of organic SERPs, #1 gets 40%, #2 gets 12%, #3 gets 8%, and on down from there.

      I just wanted to see if I am getting the correct numbers based on your formulas here, and thanks for sharing!
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    • Profile picture of the author FrozenEyes
      Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

      In fact there is another approach which we use sometimes:

      Keyword 1 - Volume: 2000/m, CPC Value:$10
      Keyword 2 - Volume: 1500/m, CPC Value:$8
      Keyword 3 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 4 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5
      Keyword 5 - Volume: 500/m, CPC Value:$5

      Expected CTR if You Get Them Ranked Among Top 5 = 20%

      Keyword 1 Commercial Value = 2000X0.2X $10 = $4000
      Keyword 2 Commercial Value = 1500X0.2X $8= $2400
      Keyword 3 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 4 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      Keyword 5 Commercial Value = 500X0.2X $5 = $500
      How do you present this qoute to your potential client?
      Do you show them Adwords stat so they know where the price/data came from or you just show this computation?
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      • Profile picture of the author ksetu
        If you really need to show the proof, you can take a screenshot of adwords tool data and insert in your proposal. It looks attractive and authentic - as the data is direct from horse's mouth.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
    Just an update on what I was able to find out from the client.

    They are currently spending about $15K/month on all their marketing channels combined. Conversions overall is around 10% from what they told me. I asked how much profit is in 1 student that is enrolled and they told there is no profit right now. They need to increase the lead volume and quality of them.

    I asked about what sort of budget they had in mind for the SEO project and they are open as long as it gives them results.

    Since we don't know the exact value of one student it becomes hard to punch the numbers and give them monthly fee as ksetu suggested.

    So any other suggestions on how to structure the pricing for this client?
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

      Just an update on what I was able to find out from the client.

      They are currently spending about $15K/month on all their marketing channels combined. Conversions overall is around 10% from what they told me. I asked how much profit is in 1 student that is enrolled and they told there is no profit right now. They need to increase the lead volume and quality of them.

      I asked about what sort of budget they had in mind for the SEO project and they are open as long as it gives them results.

      Since we don't know the exact value of one student it becomes hard to punch the numbers and give them monthly fee as ksetu suggested.

      So any other suggestions on how to structure the pricing for this client?
      Looking for some feedback on this. Anyone have any further insight to share?
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      • Profile picture of the author ksetu
        If you don't know what's the value you are generating for client, there is no sure-shot way to come up with figures. Either you must find that out or you end up quoting a number which is either exorbitant or ridiculously low.
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        • Profile picture of the author FrozenEyes
          Originally Posted by ksetu View Post

          If you don't know what's the value you are generating for client, there is no sure-shot way to come up with figures. Either you must find that out or you end up quoting a number which is either exorbitant or ridiculously low.
          You were right.
          If I based on adwords CPC with their keywords its too low!
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  • Profile picture of the author FrozenEyes
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    • Profile picture of the author ksetu
      In my calculation context, CTR is the ratio of number of times you got the click and the number of times your sites gets listed in top 10 ranking against customer's query.So if your site gets 100 impression and only 20 of them clicked to visit your site - that's 20% CTR.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Don't worry if you overcharge them they'll soon kick you into touch. Why not see what your costs wil lbe to rank them and double it? So it costs you $500 per month charge them $1k. You are only managing it right? After a year ask how is it going, are they happy? Maybe increase a touch. Think win/win instead of "how much can I take them for"
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  • Profile picture of the author FrozenEyes
    Is there a way to change currency on Adword Tools?
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