If I can reach thousands of households, what would convert well?

by ckbank
21 replies
Hi everyone,

I want to market to households in my city and basically my target demographics is everyone. I don't have experience in selling and converting to a general population. What are some online or offline (affiliate or dropship) products that may convert well with the general population?
#convert #households #reach #thousands
  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I don't know. Your "target" market isn't very targeted at all.
    It seems as if you are just going to be throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.
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    • Profile picture of the author ckbank
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      I don't know. Your "target" market isn't very targeted at all.
      It seems as if you are just going to be throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.
      I disagree. Dentists, doctors, plumbers and etc., they all target the general population. Out of a 100 people, there will always be at least 1 or 2 that need these services. So, when I asked that question, that's what I had in mind. Lastly, I haven't heard of any company reaching out to households and surveying first and then selling. They just go out there and sell. They don't ask, "would you buy this, and if so, when can I come back and try to convince you?"
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      • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
        Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

        I disagree. Dentists, doctors, plumbers and etc., they all target the general population. Out of a 100 people, there will always be at least 1 or 2 that need these services. So, when I asked that question, that's what I had in mind. Lastly, I haven't heard of any company reaching out to households and surveying first and then selling. They just go out there and sell. They don't ask, "would you buy this, and if so, when can I come back and try to convince you?"
        Just because someone else does something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
        An intelligent dentist would target the people that could afford his services.
        Then, narrow that down to new homeowners.

        New homeowners may need a new dentist. But only marketing to the people that can afford their services will result in an even better conversion rate.

        Sure settle for your one or two. Or do some research and find a target market.
        That doesn't neccesarily mean a survey. I don't know where you got that idea.

        You can do research online and look at the average household income for that area.
        Thus, further drilling down your target market.
        If it's something like a pizza place. Then drilling down to no more than 10 miles away.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          I see the OP has abandoned us, and we are now talking about something entirely different. Oh well, it was kind of fun.

          Bob Ross: If the ads are so small on the postcards, what kind of offers are there? Driving the reader to a website? Free offers? Money off coupons?
          I read your 9x12 report, and thought it was a great program for selling local businesses advertising.

          Anyway, it was good chatting with you and vndnbrgj.
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          • Profile picture of the author bob ross
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I see the OP has abandoned us, and we are now talking about something entirely different. Oh well, it was kind of fun.

            Bob Ross: If the ads are so small on the postcards, what kind of offers are there? Driving the reader to a website? Free offers? Money off coupons?
            I read your 9x12 report, and thought it was a great program for selling local businesses advertising.

            Anyway, it was good chatting with you and vndnbrgj.
            You too Claude. vndnbrgj is one of the better guys on here too.

            The ads aren't really small, they're 4x2 and bigger. Coupons work best and food tends to get the best returns by far. The more food coupons on there the better, people love that.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

        Lastly, I haven't heard of any company reaching out to households and surveying first and then selling. They just go out there and sell.
        ... and just why do you reckon they do that?

        Maybe they are just dumb right?

        Or maybe they figure striking while the iron is hot is a more efficient way?

        I disagree about one thing....many companies survey first. Its called "prospecting". Like you said, you just havent heard of it I guess. We do it when we engage in appointment setting.

        I agree about the 1-2% and dont think that targeting the general population is anything less than "targeting" a demographic. The demographic is just "the general population". Its not a bad idea. Many companies do it.

        The general population has interest in cars, and mops and brooms and vaccuum cleaners and food, and windows and roofing and siding... (The last two are mostly the "homeowner" demographic actually). Lots of things appeal to the general population, like "Life insurance", "Health Insurance".... all kinds of stuff.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          ... and just why do you reckon they do that?

          Maybe they are just dumb right?

          Or maybe they figure striking while the iron is hot is a more efficient way?

          I disagree about one thing....many companies survey first. Its called "prospecting". Like you said, you just havent heard of it I guess. We do it when we engage in appointment setting.

          I agree about the 1-2% and dont think that targeting the general population is anything less than "targeting" a demographic. The demographic is just "the general population". Its not a bad idea. Many companies do it.

          The general population has interest in cars, and mops and brooms and vaccuum cleaners and food, and windows and roofing and siding... (The last two are mostly the "homeowner" demographic actually). Lots of things appeal to the general population, like "Life insurance", "Health Insurance".... all kinds of stuff.
          John; With mailings done by bulk mail, you can target homeowners and income (to a degree) by routes. You probably already know that. This is for everyone else.

          The huge advantage of these mailings is the cost of mailing. And the cost is dwindled much further by sharing space with other advertisers.

          For example, I use a coupon magazine that gives me two 8 1/2 X 11 ads (inside the magazine) for a total of $700 a month. The magazine goes to 25,000 homes in my immediate area. That's 3 cents a home for two full sized ads. So I can afford a lot of waste in this mailing. This bundled mailing is very useful for businesses on the list that Bob Ross posted....because the mailing cost per person is so low.

          This method is less effective than one offer on a postcard (everyone looks at the postcard. More space to sell), but the economies of scale make it profitable.

          Sometimes I'll buy 3 or 4 pages in the magazine. As long as the offers are different. Yeah, food offers are always the best. And it keeps the magazine (or oversized postcard) from getting thrown away.

          But in this shared advertising format, I'm happy with a .1% response. Because these are buyers. Good stuff here.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    Lawyers
    Furniture Stores
    Chiro's
    Insurance Agents
    Real Estate Agents
    Liquor Stores
    Bakeries
    Pizza
    Restaurants
    Car Washes
    Oil Changes
    Plumbers
    Electricians
    Jewelers
    Gift Shops
    Gold Buyers
    Dentists
    Optometrists
    Bottle Redemption
    Pest Control
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      Lawyers
      Furniture Stores
      Chiro's
      Insurance Agents
      Real Estate Agents
      Liquor Stores
      Bakeries
      Pizza
      Restaurants
      Car Washes
      Oil Changes
      Plumbers
      Electricians
      Jewelers
      Gift Shops
      Gold Buyers
      Dentists
      Optometrists
      Bottle Redemption
      Pest Control

      And the big advantage is that all of these businesses can be started with no start up money, no training, and no overhead.

      Sorry, your list was great, but I couldn't help myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    Car Dealers
    Kids Fun Centers
    Health Food Stores
    Drug Stores
    Burger Joints
    Chinese Take-out
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    Hi everyone,

    I want to market to households in my city and basically my target demographics is everyone. I don't have experience in selling and converting to a general population. What are some online or offline (affiliate or dropship) products that may convert well with the general population?
    I mean this in the nicest way. You have no targeted market. The best advice I can give you is to buy your advertising cheaply. The worst way to aim at birds when hunting, is to aim at the flock. You aim at one bird.

    In other words, trying to sell to a "general population" means you are excluding the 99.999% of the population that won't want whatever it is that you are going to sell. You're excluding them...but you are still paying to reach them.

    I own a retail store that sells vacuum cleaners. Everyone has one. That's pretty general. And the only way I can make my advertising work is to buy at such low prices that any response would pay. The amount I pay for advertising is the reason my ads pay. And I'm a very competent ad creator. I even wrote a book about it.

    You are wrong about the "out of 100, 1 or 2 will need this".
    It may be one out of a thousand, or one out of ten thousand. I know why you believe what you believe, but it's not true.

    A dentist advertising to a population of 50,000 may get two or three new patients from a great ad. How often do you go to the dentist? Not very often.
    But a dentist may make $5,000 from a new patient. So, that's why they advertise.

    If you are going to sell something general, you should pick an appeal that sounds specific, but isn't.

    Allergies, pets, headaches, debt, earning money, raising kids, building confidence, meeting your next true love, staying warm in winter, looking good, losing weight....are all things that apply to a huge section of the population, but the reader will think "That's about me!"

    Most of these are also extremely competitive niches.

    I'm guessing that you have a list of a lot of local names and you're thinking "This has to be valuable!" Maybe. But I'd sure rather have a list of names of people who just spent $1,000 on a (pretty much anything). THAT list, I could sell something to. Now, you have something to work with.

    You said:
    They don't ask, "would you buy this, and if so, when can I come back and try to convince you?".

    What would you say if someone asked you that question?
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    • Profile picture of the author ckbank
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I mean this in the nicest way. You have no targeted market. The best advice I can give you is to buy your advertising cheaply. The worst way to aim at birds when hunting, is to aim at the flock. You aim at one bird.

      In other words, trying to sell to a "general population" means you are excluding the 99.999% of the population that won't want whatever it is that you are going to sell. You're excluding them...but you are still paying to reach them.

      I own a retail store that sells vacuum cleaners. Everyone has one. That's pretty general. And the only way I can make my advertising work is to buy at such low prices that any response would pay. The amount I pay for advertising is the reason my ads pay. And I'm a very competent ad creator. I even wrote a book about it.

      You are wrong about the "out of 100, 1 or 2 will need this".
      It may be one out of a thousand, or one out of ten thousand. I know why you believe what you believe, but it's not true.

      A dentist advertising to a population of 50,000 may get two or three new patients from a great ad. How often do you go to the dentist? Not very often.
      But a dentist may make $5,000 from a new patient. So, that's why they advertise.

      If you are going to sell something general, you should pick an appeal that sounds specific, but isn't.

      Allergies, pets, headaches, debt, earning money, raising kids, building confidence, meeting your next true love, staying warm in winter, looking good, losing weight....are all things that apply to a huge section of the population, but the reader will think "That's about me!"

      Most of these are also extremely competitive niches.

      I'm guessing that you have a list of a lot of local names and you're thinking "This has to be valuable!" Maybe. But I'd sure rather have a list of names of people who just spent $1,000 on a (pretty much anything). THAT list, I could sell something to. Now, you have something to work with.

      You said:
      They don't ask, "would you buy this, and if so, when can I come back and try to convince you?".

      What would you say if someone asked you that question?
      If what you are saying is true, then Bob Ross' postcard system is a complete waste of money and time for business owners (total sarcasm). Some people report conversion rates of 10 - 20 % (no sarcasm).
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

        If what you are saying is true, then Bob Ross' postcard system is a complete waste of money and time for business owners (total sarcasm). Some people report conversion rates of 10 - 20 % (no sarcasm).

        ckbank: (If that is in deed your real name)

        What I said is true. I have nothing to gain by lying to you. And I'm speaking from decades of advertising experience.

        I have not seen Bob Ross's postcard system. I've seen 20% responses from lists of current active customers, although that would be exceptional.

        But postcards cold mailed to the general population? Even 5%? I've never seen it. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying that I've never seen it out of thousands of mailing for myself, my clients, or anyone I've ever met. Even the greats.

        I have a strong suspicion that there is something missing here. Some thing you haven't said that changes everything. Like "postcards mailed to a list of people who just bought from you" or "postcards included with orders shipped out to buyers" or "Postcards mail to dentist patients offering a free checkup and cleaning". But it couldn't be that, because you said to everyone.

        In other words, there is much more to this story. But I gave good information based on what you posted.

        Added after I looked up one of my WSOs:
        Wait a minute! Are you talking about Bob Ross's 9 X 12 postcard system? If you are, then you need to read it over again. And learn what a "response rate" is. Multiple businesses advertising on each side of a postcard? Even a huge postcard? Maybe. But 10% response for any one of the advertisers? It would take extraordinary evidence to convince me of that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Just Curious
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


          But postcards cold mailed to the general population? Even 5%? I've never seen it. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying that I've never seen it out of thousands of mailing for myself, my clients, or anyone I've ever met. Even the greats.
          What is a decent response rate for B2B postcards cold mailed?
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Just Curious View Post

            What is a decent response rate for B2B postcards cold mailed?
            Here are the variables;
            Are the prospects past customers or just random businesses?
            Are you targeting specific businesses, and personalizing the offer?
            Are you selling something, or getting an opt-in for an online newsletter?
            Is it from "One plumber to another" or from "One person to another person who happens to own a business"?
            What does the copy say (this can help or hurt the results by a factor of ten or more)?
            Are they used to buying what you are selling?

            But if you are sending an offer for something for free (that they want) or something they regularly buy...maybe 1%. But that extremely rough average is useless. What is your Return On Investment? Nothing else matters.

            For example, I have an ad in my retail niche that brought in a return of 44 to 1 for several years. (meaning $44 return for every $1 in mailing cost). But the response rate was one in one thousand. It went out as part of a coupon magazine.

            I helped a local pizza parlor with a postcard mailing.The headline was;
            "Only Your Street, Only Today. One Large Pizza With Everything $10."

            It got about an 8% response rate. Which means every new customer cost about $6.00 to bring in the door....and they wanted a $10 pizza.
            The promotion was successful, because the pizza guy understood (after a tedious lecture from me) that he was measuring the Lifetime Value of a new customer against that $6.00 cost to acquire.

            The right way to think about this is: "How can I make money if only one person in a thousand respond?". If you have an answer to that, maybe you have a business.

            I mail out postcards to meeting planners in sales organizations. I'm offering them something for FREE that they really want "How To Be The Hero At Your Next Convention And Get Attendees Vowing To Return Next Year". It's a booklet-sales letter. It's Great. And I offer to mail it to them for free. The postcard is addressed directly to them. But I get about a 2% response. THEN the selling starts. So I may mail out 2,000 postcards for every booked speaking gig. And it's a small universe, so I'm relying more on cold calling by phone now.

            Throwing out percentages is extremely misleading, that's why I hesitate.. There is so much more involved. And this isn't a direct mail forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author jayspann
    I tried to use Every Door Direct Mail for a local big chain gym. The great part... the 14 cents it cost per piece... The bad part... it didn't work.

    We used a piece that has been pulling like crazy to hot list of niche magazine buyers and some supplement buyers and was getting a GREAT response.

    That was costing us a about a $1 per mailer but we were getting $3 back each just in the first 30 days after each campaign. So 3 to 1 just on the front end.

    So I had the brilliant idea that hey every needs to work out right? So lets save a ton of money and do the cheap mailer to everyone thru the USPS.

    Long story short we lost our ass. OK it was that bad.. we made almost $900 off a $4k spend. It wasn't good.

    Moral of the story... the list or your market is WAT more important than what your selling or how your selling it.

    Jay Spann
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  • Profile picture of the author NYC Partners
    I would have to say you should probably focus on the local marketing aspect. Almost any business becomes a valid target, and most of them probably need your help and have no way to even know about it because they are so busy running their business. The program "Local Mobile Fusion" was great for my education on this subject.

    Hope that helps... have a great day!

    Sincerely,
    Roman
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    The list is absolutely what's important like others said. If you can reach more people on a targeted list than you can reach your targets + saturating for the price, then go for targeted mailings.

    Dentists can do extremely well with postcard mailing if lots are sent (particularly to homes with children) and sent often. Postcardmania.com does more dental postcard marketing than anyone and they have some really cool success stories.

    There are some businesses that it doesn't make sense to target, like pizzerias. If you're sharing a card like my 9x12 system, then saturation makes sense because you can reach a ton of targets for really really really cheap. The fitness center could spend $2k and get the whole back of a 9x12 and reach 10,000 people for example, hitting all the targets and then some. But doing a solo mailing, you should be looking at hitting targets.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    And yes about response, 10 or 20% would be for the entire shared card, not one offer. I have had liquor/pizza/bakeries get extremely high responses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    When your target is everyone your target is no one... simple as that.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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