My story and my last post in this section of the forums for a long time or maybe forever.

by 72 replies
With much consideration I've decided that I won't be posting in this section of the forums for a long ass time maybe even forever. I'll get to that at the end of the post though but first my story.

I've been a salesman/business owner for most of my life. My first experience in selling was when I was 13 years old and wanted to go on a Boy Scout sponsored 18 day 50 mile back pack trip over the continental divide in Wyoming.

My father who was a life insurance salesmen who worked directly under W. Clement Stone told me that if I wanted to go I'd have to raise as much money as possible on my own to pay for the trip, "IF" I put in a good showing and fell short he'd make up any difference financially to ensure I had everything required for the trip.

So I decided that I could do it and knocked on doors all over the city selling vehicle first aid kits to home owners to raise the money. As it turned out my father didn't have to pitch in that much money to complete the funding required. The next year it was another 50 mile back pack trip through Yellowstone National park and for that I raised 100% of the funds needed!

That began my journey of being self sufficient so to speak and of course it began my salesmanship journey.

Fast forward 5 short years and I enlisted in the US ARMY as a combat medic and stayed in the Army for very close to 8 years.

Upon being honorably discharged my first job out of the ARMY was a telemarketing job for a credit repair company. Within the first month or two, "can't remember exactly", I was in first chair out of a room of about 16 telemarketers. First chair meant I was the #1 salesmen in the company and I remained there until I was told I was being made the telemarketing manager.

Fast forward again to 2009! Between having been a telemarketing manager and 2009 I had owned two roofing companies, a Japanese restaurant, minority owned medical supply company and a Bridal shop.

Some were successful and some weren't "as" successful. Much learning went on during these times.

Up until 2009 the last brick and mortar company I owned as a successful insurance restoration roofing company, but something happened in 2009 that changed my life forever.

What happened to me I've only shared with a handful of people and have never made public but I think it's OK now to say it.

In the summer of 2009 I had an accident that left me partially disabled. They type of disability that left me requiring assisted ambulation. There's no need to go into the specifics of my injury so I won't be going into that.

I kept my roofing company going as long as possible but found it near impossible to oversee things in the field like "I" wanted so I eventually let the company go.

This left me with two decisions to make about my life.
1. I could take the welfare disability route and live off the government for the rest of my life and pretty much be trapped in a shitty lifestyle living in a hole somewhere playing internet games and smoking a lot of pot. or.
2. I could take what I head learned about online marketing and ranking for my own roofing company and start offering it to local businesses.

So I told myself, as long as I have a damn mouse and internet connection I can make money and not depend on ANYONE to support me.

So I started dragging my ass out into the field canes and crutches in tow and began offering services for online marketing to small businesses.

That's how I got my start in the online/offline marketing world.

Since then I've created some products for my peers, GPScraper, Google Places Zen Master, Review Sentry, and a few minor WP Plugins and released them here on the Warrior Forums for my peers. Of course there's been my posting here as well.

Lets get to why I've decided to no longer post in this section of the forums. It isn't going to be pretty and my reasons aren't directly pointed at any single person here.

Basically I've become very tired of reading many posts about how I made X$ doing this, X$ doing that, how to make X$ doing bla bla bla. Its like it turned into a mini WSO section of the forums and there really isn't anything of substantial value being posted any longer in "MY" eyes.

I started off posting in this section and replying to threads to guide and give people direction in their businesses because I've personally got 20+ years of being self employed under my belt.

Sadly though, it seems this section of the forums has turned into a lot of self pontificating and positioning that doesn't really offer that much help to anyone, in my opinion for the most part. As such coming here and reading posts has just become a major waste of my time and has turned into a time sink for me.

This is how I feel and of course there are some that will agree with me and there will be some that don't. For those who don't, personally I don't care because it has no effect on me or my business. = )

My parting counsel for any one who's willing to listen.

There are two things I'd like to share with you if you are wanting to make money to improve your life.

1. If you are going to be in business, then be in business. Learn about running a business, learn about business principles. Learn COGS, Learn margins, learn processes and systems. Learn how to charge enough to stay in business. Learn to build a business in such a manner that if you have an accident your business can survive in your temporary absence, if it can't you've only created a job.

2. If you find you don't want to commit 100% to the above but still want to make extra money then realize the fact that you can still make money but that you are only creating a job for yourself and you are probably better suited to being a service provider to those who have committed 200% to being a business and offer services that they need. You'll fair much better and be much happier.

Pretty basic advice but if you think about it, it's what separates the men from the boys in the business world.

My parting comment is to wish every single one of you the best in life, best in business and the best in everything you do. If you put your mind to it you CAN achieve anything you want and nothing can stand in your way, not even canes or crutches!

I'll still be lurking from time to time this section of the forums just to see what's going on but you won't find my posting here any longer.

Peace to every one!

Russ
#offline marketing #forever #forums #long #post #section #story #time
  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Russ...
    I for one will miss reading your posts. I know what you're talking about, and I don't blame you.

    Thank you for all that you have done for this forum, it didn't go unnoticed!

    ~Theresa
    Signature


  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Sorry to hear about all that, Russ...and WF is distracting from running a "real" business!

    People in general do NOT commit 100% to succeeding. Most drop out at the first bit of resistance. I hope this bothers someone into committing.

    However, there are things of value posted here.

    We'll miss you!
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Russ, that is a Wuss quitter attitude.

    Alot of people when they arent the life of the party at all times say "Im going to take my ball and go home".

    In my own case...

    There are 200 people in this forum who can say I helped them make actual MONEY (ooops is that self pontificating?), not just sold them a report. ...so it isnt self pontification, its teaching...no not lecturing "teaching"- Actually getting the point through to peoples heads where they can use it.

    Help someone make a sale and your feelings will change. Just because you are posting doesnt always mean people are getting it... if you want people to get it and they arent, then re look at the way you are presenting.

    Quit being so "cool" and lose it a little bit to help inspire the holy shit out of someone where they want to jump up and take action, and come back saying "WOW I got a sale!"

    So many people around here I see saying the WF isnt worth their time because they arent getting what they want out of it.... Why not think of what you can GIVE it?

    Give it passionately... change someones internal feelings with it...

    I believe you are an old school salesman personally....and I believe you are have alot to offer, but before I let you wuss out let me say this... Even if you have alot to offer... no one will get it if you are constantly telling all the beginners they are bottom feeders because they arent full blown consultants doing it the Michael Hiles way... People want to make money and thats why they come here...because they dont know how and they want to learn...

    Let them develop as a pro, and if you want to help them, then get them to the fastest result, as quick as possible and let them experience a victory within a week of picking up what you are laying down...Then they will have success and they will be encouraged to become more of a professional consultant, and you may not have gotten them all the way there, but you PUT them on that road.

    I have heard on certain peoples blogs about self pontificating and being drunk on ones own arrogance... Thats all the green monster talking. You are bigger than that.

    It hurts to get advice from a guy like me, and it feels a bit insulting, because you may say "I have been doing this as long as that person and I dont get the attention... and nobody listens to me..."

    Thats BS...

    Childish.

    Im sorry, and I can separate issues, I have alot of admiration for you in some areas, but this is just being a big baby.

    We are all allowed that at times, and when you decide to come back... I for one will be glad to see you.

    Ps. This post may seem non relevant to the OP but Im looking at the bigger picture of what you have been communicating over several posts now.
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    When have I ever said anyone was a bottom feeder because they "weren't doing it the Michael Hiles way"?

    I haven't nor would I ever.

    And let me clear something up. I don't make money by teaching people how to make money. I just go do it. If you can learn from my experience, great. If not, carry on. There was a day and time when this forum was about real discussion about business, business development, growing a business.

    Then it turned into a pre-sales shuck and jive fest for WSOs. I'm still interested in discussing building a business. If that discussion isn't here (which it really isn't), then I'll just find the meaningful conversation somewhere else. I suspect that's where Russ is at as well.
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      When have I ever said anyone was a bottom feeder because they "weren't doing it the Michael Hiles way"?
      To quote me verbatim... is to miss the point entirely. I dont think anyone said EXACTLY that but you and I have have had a love hate relationship for years now on certain points... there are two sides of the fence and there are teams on both sides... the team on the other side of mine, which you respectfully have been on many times... thinks that certain other kinds of marketers are bottom feeders, selling cheap services... blah blah blah, because they dont understand the reasoning behind why certain people teach the beginners like they are beginners...

      By simply following post trails one can discover that some people get 90% of their posting mileage from belittling others... and then talking stuff that is so far above peoples heads that if there were a forum for it, only fortune 500 company CEO's could even UNDERSTAND it to participate.

      To me personally, value is delivered by what you can actually HELP people with, so you have to determine if the kinds of things you are saying, can really help the kinds of people you are saying it to.

      So with that being said... SOME of the stuff that is talked about here is valuable to a guy who has a multi million dollar corporation,which is great, but wont help a person who is the average warrior forum member much.

      Effectiveness is determined by helping people, not by impressing them, nor telling them they are all doing it on a level that could not possibly even come close to ones vast understanding of business...

      Thats all cool, but just dont cry when nobody gets it.

      Anyway, back to your point... Im sorry I should have stated it differently.

      Im not addressing Rus post.... Im addressing Rus current state of being, judging from about 20 posts I have read over the last couple of months.

      Anyway, I can see where this is going. If this is Rus last post, I just wanted make him think hard about what it really is- Its quitting.

      If being a member here wasnt valuable to you then you wouldnt have been for so long, and you wouldnt have offers in the WSO section...it clearly is an important part of your life....so walking away from it isnt being noble. It's "quitting".

      If it was anyone else I would have kid gloves on, but Rus is a seasoned Warrior. If he is going to not mind babying out...then Im not going to mind telling him that he needs to re look at why.

      I had better get out of here so people can come attack and I can take my licking and keep going. I know this post wont be popular.

      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      There was a day and time when this forum was about real discussion about business, business development, growing a business.

      Then it turned into a pre-sales shuck and jive fest for WSOs. I'm still interested in discussing building a business. If that discussion isn't here (which it really isn't), then I'll just find the meaningful conversation somewhere else. I suspect that's where Russ is at as well.
      Tell that to Iamnameless who raked in 100k a month ago, on the talk from this forum, or tell that to Ken Micheals who can show you pictures from inside his call center organization.

      Saying we dont really talk about business here is waaay over the top, and just plain BS to anyone who got their start right here in the last few years. They are saying "What do you mean? The WF changed my whole life and saved my family with its talk, and I got started by this non business talk you are saying isnt worth your time!"

      It still talks about business, and your generalization there just proves my point. Me thinks thou has protested too much and went overboard, and that makes your point not credible, because its CLEAR that people do learn to start businesses here from the dialogue that goes on here.

      To say there is no meaningful talk here about business would not make sense to a guy who was about to lose his home a month ago, and was able to save it by learning from the talk here.
    • Profile picture of the author mike_lucas
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      When have I ever said anyone was a bottom feeder because they "weren't doing it the Michael Hiles way"?

      I haven't nor would I ever.

      And let me clear something up. I don't make money by teaching people how to make money. I just go do it. If you can learn from my experience, great. If not, carry on. There was a day and time when this forum was about real discussion about business, business development, growing a business.

      Then it turned into a pre-sales shuck and jive fest for WSOs. I'm still interested in discussing building a business. If that discussion isn't here (which it really isn't), then I'll just find the meaningful conversation somewhere else. I suspect that's where Russ is at as well.

      Agree 100% you can tell that almost 75% oft the post is pre selling a WSO or post selling a WSO.

      There are few I even brother to read anymore sadly Russ's Topic's and post was one of them Hope your change you mind.
  • Profile picture of the author dave147
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    It's not an either/or proposition John. If what you insisted were true, sites like http://www.quora.com wouldn't exist. People from all levels of business are there to engage without monopolizing the discussion with their "let me teach you how to make money" stuffs. It's like... genuine engagement about genuine business (at all levels) without the shuck and jive.
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      It's not an either/or proposition John. If what you insisted were true, sites like http://www.quora.com wouldn't exist. People from all levels of business are there to engage without monopolizing the discussion with their "let me teach you how to make money" stuffs. It's like... genuine engagement about genuine business (at all levels) without the shuck and jive.
      Okay, well my daughter needs me, so I have to go, but I will say this before I do, and as always I have enjoyed the head banging...

      People who "monopolize" (such colorful words from finger pointing ones) with the "Let me teach you" mentality, are the same people who "HELP TEACH others... and those others actually grow banks accounts instead of attitudes.

      To say that there is nothing worth participating here for, is just waaay over the top. It exemplifies the exact kind of thing Im talking about.

      This is the WARRIOR forum...Its all about making money...people teach it, people do it, people sell reports about it, and people learn from those reports and come back with testimonials saying "I made money". What are looking for?

      What do you need to feel like something is worth your participation.

      Yall have a good one , Im out. Im going to go enjoy some money my OFFLINE business made and take my daughter to lunch. Later Gator.
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Wrong. I don't have a "let me teach you" mentality.

    That's where we differ.

    And the Warrior Forum WAS all about making money. Not "buy my report" and come back to post your tesimonial in my thread making money. There's a difference.

    Maybe that's why there AREN'T more of those big headed, yucky CEOs of big companies HERE but indeed ARE over at Quora.com - in droves. A place where even newbies who haven't sold a single thing can engage with the likes of Dave Morin (path.com), Jimmy Wales, Declan Dunn (I mean, even a direct marketing TITAN like THAT doesn't frequent WF?? WTF?), Marc Andreesen, et al. I mean... who would want to engage with people like THAT when we have everything we need right here. LOL

    Maybe it's about the kind of engagement and the tone that has shifted. I can only speak to my own perspective, but that's what has driven guys like me (and apparently Russ) away. Maybe the WF really ISN'T all about buy this report - it was just turned into that. The result is clear.

    The difference is engagement for the purpose of genuine engagement (with a genuine purpose to actually help people). That's what I am looking for. And I am looking for it with people LIKE ME, those who are interested in LEARNING lots of different things, not just one trick or two from a $37 ebook. I want to learn from people who aren't making $100K a month. I want to learn from people who make $100K an hour. The reason I'm where I'm at is because that's the way I always was - even at the very beginning. I didn't want to mess with Robin... I wanted to talk to Batman.
    • Profile picture of the author jtchaschowy
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Maybe it's about the kind of engagement and the tone that has shifted. I can only speak to my own perspective, but that's what has driven guys like me (and apparently Russ) away. Maybe the WF really ISN'T all about buy this report - it was just turned into that. The result is clear.
      How does the forum benefit best? From the sale of a WSO or from a really successful thread that gave tons of free information out to people who in turn made thousands of dollars from that free information?

      The forum is all about the WSO,,, So you can't blame the section for the degradation it has endured. It started out amazing, with stuff like this thread, the thread that got me into this career.

      But realize the target market of this website is people who want to buy WSO's. The majority is infact people who want to be marketed to, and the people selling reports are catering to them.

      Is this to say that the forum is useless? Absolutely not, I still check here frequently because it's good to see what your peers are up to, and every time I come here there will be a beneficial thread to me and my business. But I don't expect the entire forum to be full of Gold 24/7, that's quite outlandish to expect from a free internet marketing forum.
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Wrong. I don't have a "let me teach you" mentality.

      That's where we differ.

      And the Warrior Forum WAS all about making money. Not "buy my report" and come back to post your tesimonial in my thread making money. There's a difference.

      Maybe that's why there AREN'T more of those big headed, yucky CEOs of big companies HERE but indeed ARE over at Quora.com - in droves. A place where even newbies who haven't sold a single thing can engage with the likes of Dave Morin (path.com), Jimmy Wales, Declan Dunn (I mean, even a direct marketing TITAN like THAT doesn't frequent WF?? WTF?), Marc Andreesen, et al. I mean... who would want to engage with people like THAT when we have everything we need right here. LOL

      Maybe it's about the kind of engagement and the tone that has shifted. I can only speak to my own perspective, but that's what has driven guys like me (and apparently Russ) away. Maybe the WF really ISN'T all about buy this report - it was just turned into that. The result is clear.

      The difference is engagement for the purpose of genuine engagement (with a genuine purpose to actually help people). That's what I am looking for. And I am looking for it with people LIKE ME, those who are interested in LEARNING lots of different things, not just one trick or two from a $37 ebook. I want to learn from people who aren't making $100K a month. I want to learn from people who make $100K an hour. The reason I'm where I'm at is because that's the way I always was - even at the very beginning. I didn't want to mess with Robin... I wanted to talk to Batman.
      Michael, I was referring to you pointing at others insinuating that everyone at the warrior forum has a "let me teach you" mentality. While on that note...whats wrong with it , if people learn and prosper?

      On another note, whats wrong with wanting to teach others?

      Personally I consider that to be the greatest part of posting here, finding out that our advice helped someone.

      After a nice lunch with my daughter I was questioning myself about coming back to this thread and killing my own buzz but I have to tell you that for someone so obviously intelligent, you prove everything Im saying with every post you make. Im going to call it a hierarchy mentality.

      Any credibility that my post may have is DOUBLY confirmed when someone reads your responses.

      Its a hierarchy mentality... I seriously dont know why anyone would even come to the warrior forum at all if every visit their posts are filled with little things about how it is beneath them in so many senses, and how it used to be. I was here in 99 and I was buying reports just like people do now, from Allen himself even... it hasnt changed. I was learning and it was helping me be a better offline call center manager, and later owner...and eventually where NOTHING else helped nearly as much, the Warrior forum taught me ALL kinds of things, and I have accomplished some cool things I never knew I could from hanging out and learning things here...

      Thats not even the coolest part... NOW, i get to see others experience the same growth and Im the one that gets to be a part of it as a guide in alot of cases, and as a now seasoned warrior..

      Perhaps Im so altruistic because for me myself it has been the biggest blessing and I never even WROTE a report until 2010, up to that point I was one of these "starry eyed" warrior fans that ate everything up and I still do drink the cool aid because this place has taught me to accomplish alot of things...and I dispense the cool aid nowadays in hopes that some others will have the same fighting chance, and I dont think we do it any differently now than we ever did.... For ten years I lurked and only posted here and there, and I ate up everything the gurus wrote and I learned things from them, yourself included as you know well. You have even been a coach to me Michael. Im not bashing a character ever... Im bashing the things that person is saying...

      Re read your posts.... Its like some snooty girl saying "I can get a better man..."... Im saying "go for it then, and quit standing around letting grass grow under your feet...".

      While others are saying the Warrior forum is (I believe I have heard you use terms like ) "Marketing Incest...", and that its not up to snuff with the big fortune 500 kind of mentalities...My mentally is "Get the hell out then".

      I swear no ones feelings will be hurt if you evolve to a "higher" plane. The warrior forum will still be goin on ten years from now.... It was sucking people from the search engines when it found you and me...and long after we are gone it will still thrive.

      If you feel its above you then go find someplace you like better and dont feel the need to come back just to point fingers and tell everyone how inferior the mentality here is...

      While you are doing that we will keep on truckin.

      I probably shouldnt have stopped back here... But yeah. I dont think I will feel the need to apologize later for this one.

      Still, much love brother.... I argue your premise, and I wish to correct your attitude if possible in this scenario, but as a person I still appreciate you.

      The attitude that you feel this forum is beneath your standards is okay... but the need to come back here and point it out to people who are learning and growing is very uncool.

      This post may seem altruistic and ignorant and not even COOL.... But I dont care about looking cool or being pretentious Michael, when it comes to helping people Im about being real and meeting them where they are. Because if you dont do that, then you can baffle them with bullshit, but you cant help them make money with who they are and from WHERE they are, and they may never get to feel the way we do.

      Most people get sick of the Warrior forum about the time every quits buying their M.O.

      -John

      Lol

      Laughing at myself for thinking this thought: Quora.com can kiss my warrior ass.

      When I "accuse" Russ of wussing out what Im really saying is "Dont be get your panties all upset, and get mad at all the wso sellers, just because people arent buying reputation management software, and others have googles scrapers.

      Its like "The Prophet" talking about a man who walks away from a feast after he had his fill and calls everyone who stayed behind "gluttons".

      Half the people who hate WSO sellers are mostly pissed because they got some competition with their software.

  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    The real problem in my eyes, is that certain people hang out here WAY TOO MUCH in the first place.

    Then they realize one day "damn I'm wasting a lot of time" so rather than moderate their own behavoir, they seek out justifications for leaving. Kinda like how alcoholics go to AA and assume they have some disease. Its the easy way out if you ask me. "Lets invent some overgeneralized explanation that will remove the obligation to change the way we think and moderate our own behavoirs". Instead of trying to control their own behavoir, they approach addiction from this extreme disease oriented mindset. It is that type of extreme thinking that leads to addiction in the first place. Always seeing things in black and white rather than seeing things for what they really are. And I know I'm ranting right now but this is coming from someone who went to NA for 6 years.

    The ONLY TIME you start to take a forum "too seriously" is when you are spending THAT MUCH TIME on a forum in the first place. Same way drug users spend too much time using drugs, and they begin to assume they have all these deep rooted problems... JUST BECAUSE they like to use drugs. Its like a reverse logic that makes no sense.

    I love WF. Some times I get in my own addictive cycles coming here 7 days in a row, and posting for hours at a time. And I notice that during those times, I take on a totally different personality. I become arrogant, I start to feel like I need to "save" WF or something. Its ridiculous. But because I know how *I* work, I'm always on top of my own behavoir. I'm always questioning my own explanations for things, and I ALWAYS reject ANY explanation that is overgeneralized in nature.

    When you visit WF at the right intervals, it allows you to extract quality better from the forum. To me its all about numbers & math.

    If I assume that 90% of the threads will have no relevance to what I'm doing, and will most likely suck... that tells me that coming here every day is a waste of time. If you space things out, like once every 1-2 weeks, you'll see fresh threads, some of the same old stupid threads, but overall, its a much better use of time.

    If you're trying to sell something on WF, then you are chained to the forum in a different way. But even people who try to sell stuff, give a lot of useful information away for free. Things I would NOT know w/out coming to WF. Which is why you would NEVER see me leave.

    I don't care if people are trying to position themselves. Why? Because its easy enough to tell when they're doing it. I focus on the quality of the information they're giving. If the quality is great, I'll read their stuff, regardless of whether they're trying to sell reports or not. Because its not like I have to buy their report to learn more about what they're saying.

    Take Midasman for example. Every single post that guy makes is for positioning purposes. However, I still have the choice to skip right over his threads, or waste a couple seconds and see what they're about.

    But taking them so seriously, where I feel like I need to leave, seems far too extreme for my tastes. Its that same type of black & white thinking that only leads to more problems in the future. I'll find another forum, I'll feel good for a bit (because I have to otherwise I have to question how I think lol). Then in 6-12 months I'll just make new generalizations about the new forum I'm at. I've never hung out on "Quora" before, but something tells me you can't escape greed regardless of where you go. Thats just me.

    -Red
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    That pretty much sums up my browsing now, on a very limited basis overall actually. Maybe once a month for a morning. I find myself skipping over more and more - and really sort of missing the old levels of engagement. I'm not interested in saving anything. I just don't engage or participate all that much anymore.
    • Profile picture of the author umc
      If the good posters leave, this place only gets worse, right? Noobs like myself really appreciate the good posters and would hate to see them leave. I do agree that pushing WSO's is out of control, and from buying them I can say that some sellers are scummy as can be. The amount of spam that I get from them is astounding.

      Anyway, you should have told your story here before, Rus. That is remarkable and so admirable, to rise above life circumstances instead of wallowing in them. Good for you! I've actually got questions about one of your points for us to take to heart, but there's no use asking if you won't respond.

      I hope that you stick around. If not, I at least wish you the best. Sounds like you're the kind of guy that will be good wherever you go. Oh, and don't hide your disability, be proud of all that you've accomplished and realize that it can inspire others. So many people give up and take the easy road. You hustled and impacted the trajectory of your life in a new way. That is awesome.
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Anyway there has been a lot that really side tracked the point of the thread. I feel ya Russ... its why I haven't been as active lately, there aren't as many things I find myself being interested in. You probably just need a break from it..

    Thank you for sharing your story. Shame you won't be around to share more of your experiences with people that desperately need honest advice and help.
  • Profile picture of the author socialbacklink
    I've definitely been more quiet lately. I've just been busy with my businesses. I honestly don't think it's really any different than anywhere else though. There is always a bunch of people who won't take action, someone is always selling something, and hopefully people who give up great info.

    There really is a lot of great info on here and new info being given regularly. I've pulled out quite a bit of good stuff on Craigslist. I've done some testing and it's worked very well. But, I do agree with Red. Some people spend WAY too much time on here.
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    John, you're spending an awful lot of time on me personally here today. You're the one who called me out personally in this topic from the getgo. I had nothing to do with this discussion.

    What did you think I was going to do? Let you monopolize the conversation (again) after making it personal?

    Now you've descended into some sort of "this is our trailer park, we know it's a trailer park and if you don't like our trailer park you can get out" rant.

    Ativan bro. Or at least a couple shots of Jaeger.

    And you're presenting a whole bunch of broad assumptions about me this or me that, when there are many, many others who feel the same way. They've also stopped posting a lot as well. I'll be your emotional target because I stepped up to defend myself from your personal attack here this morning. I realize you don't like to be challenged in any fashion, and that you really do believe your word is gospel. But it jist ain't so my friend. If you can't figure out how to navigate these waters without going on a personal assault - maybe it's YOU who should take a breather.
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post


      Now you've descended into some sort of "this is our trailer park, we know it's a trailer park and if you don't like our trailer park you can get out" rant.
      No its more like this is our bethesda, the place where alot of people become whole... and your own post here is trying to minimize what Im saying and reduce it to a mere rant... I understand.

      Michael, you and I debate, I always hope, objectively. Sorry if this one got a little personal... I attacked because I truly have had alot of epiphanies at the Warrior forum that have been life changing... When someone says the WF is beneath another forum... sorry if it seems uncool but my loyalty kicks in a little.

      Sorry if you want to use words like "trailer park"... reminds me of a lawyer I hate, who constantly uses colorful words to add emotional substance in the mind of listeners to points that otherwise would have none at all.

      Im out this time.
      Later guys.
  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    Wow, and people say I rant. I don't think anyone besides those posting in this thread are getting anything out of it...let's hug and move on. Or just move on.

    Can't we all just get along?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I have no probs with John or really anyone. I can count the people I genuinely hate in life on about 3 fingers and the most heinous internet debate could never rise to the level of that hatred with me. In fact, I'd buy John a big beer and have a great time with him in person.

    I still think the Warrior Forum has slid in the past year or so. A lot of other people do as well.
    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
      Banned
      Well....I wasn't gonna jump in here BUT....when someone brings my name up, because I'm a "Doer" and Very Assertive.... I feel a need to repond;

      Example being the following from "Red";

      Take Midasman for example. Every single post that guy makes is for positioning purposes.

      "Positioning? Positioning for what? To sell WSO's? To try and "Sell MY Stuff....to WF people?

      I was one of Allen's "Founding Members" ($39 Membership) NEVER put up a WSO....NEVER wanted to! THIS Forum is NOT....MY niche! This is a $7 to $17 "niche"! MY niche is "Successful"...."Direct-Sales" people who make money "Face-To-Face"....NOT those who "depend on their Keyboards" to earn money!

      MOST of the people here get physically sick when the mention of "DIRECT" sales is mentioned. MOST of the people here are young.....MOST of the people here have NEVER started a biz or ever wanted to.

      So....why do I post up the stuff I do?

      It's sort of MY WAY of "giving back". Before I started first business (Burglar Alarm Sales to small biznesses and homeowners)....I was a "Techie"...a Nerd-Turd"....quiet, reserved and with an INFERIORITY Complex.

      Electrical Engineering was my choice at the University. Then, 2 wks into my 1st job at General Electric Corp, I discovered I had replaced a man who was FIRED...just b4 qualifying for his "Retirement Benefits".

      I went home that day and told my wife that I was NOT going to spend my "working days" at a Co that would bounce me out b4 my "vested rights" kicked it!

      So...I told her I was going to start my own biz. I didn't know what it would be but I was going to spend every spare minute HUNTING for what I felt I could make money with.

      Fortunately....within a few mos I saw an Ad in the "Biz-Op" section of the Wall Street Journal. Went down to their offices in Florida and bought their "Start-Up Kit". Came home and put $500 into my new bank account and proceeded to build it up to where I had 17 employees.

      Sold that biz and "retired" to the Aspen, CO area where I started an "Advertising" biz....helping small biz increase their biz.

      "NEW Ideas" was my bailiwick. I LOVED finding "NEW" marketing promotions and products. I was ADDICTED to finding them AND...trying them out.

      And I especially became interested in "Advertising and Marketing" promotions when my wife opened a retail Antique Shoppe.

      So....since 1980 I've been in this biz. And...even when my wife closed her Shoppe a few yrs ago, I continued on...seeking, then trying, Advertising and Marketing IDEAS! I LOVE this stuff.

      So...back to "MY PURPOSE for being HERE"! It's NOT to get "Positioning" for any WSO's or even for any of MY stuff!

      The programs I sell are from $500 up to $5,000! (Ooops! I lowered my "Holiday Bonus Cards" program to $295 last week) NO WAY is the WF a place to even think about selling "FACE-TO-FACE" STUFF!

      I've "Done my thing"! I've lived a pretty good life. Nice home! Nice Family! Debt Free with Mucho-Dinero in BankO and "Lead Buckets in back yard"! So....WHY do I post MY kinda stuff here?

      Maybe I can provide INSPIRATION to someone! MAYBE someone will understand "How" I get some of my Money-Making Ideas and put them to use.

      I have NO INTENTION of trying to SELL any of my "stuff"....HERE! However...when I DON'T provide ALL the Details or divulge my SOURCES, some of the people here get "ticked" and resort to calling me names (Phony, Liar, etc) Which "stirs me up" once in a while and...when I respond to these attacks I sometimes "go overboard" and get Banned for awhile.

      However....again....my SOLE PURPOSE of posting here....is to....impart some of my knowledge that....MAYBE my info will HELP someone! (I don't think the over 1,000 Thank You's I've received were from "pulling their arms" or "bullying-them" as one attcker commented)

      For example: here's some info on my most recent project;
      (Note: the following is NOT for "positioning for a future WSO or trying to "Sell" it to anyone HERE....info that could cause someone to think, "Hey! That's a pretty good IDEA! Maybe I should look into this and see if I can make a GO of it!")

      One of my many "Advertising" projects had to do with Mailing Discount Coupons to New Residents every month!

      I found that NewComers to my area;
      Had Money
      and
      Were looking for places to spend it!
      (Dentist, Doctor, Insurance Co, House Painter, Interior Decorator, Plumber, Electrician, Roofer, Florist, Yard Worker, Pest Control...etc)

      These New Residents (whether Home Buyers or Renters) are the BEST PROSPECTS to contact!....enticing them with some kind of offer to VISIT....one of my clients!

      So....every month I'd PRINT my "Welcome Neighbor Coupons"....insert them into envelopes...apply postage and Mail them to these New Residents.

      So...now that we're in the "Mobile Device" culture....what if I were to;
      MAIL my "Discount Coupons" to these Newcomers ONCE....and yet have the "Discount Coupons" CHANGE....EVERY WEEK....WITHOUT having to Mail Again?

      What if the 1st Mailing was a "Refrigerator Magnet" that contained a QR CODE that the NewComer could SCAN with their Phone and ....up comes a "Discount Directory" showing a DIFFERENT Discount than the first?

      And....I would NOT have to do any more "Printing or Mailing"! All I'd have to do would be to CHANGE THE DISCOUNT DEAL ON MY WEBSITE the QR Code brings them to!

      Now....let me ask you who are reading this;
      Is THIS a "cool idea"? Is THIS "feasible" and "workable" and "Possible to make some SERIOUS MONEY WITH?

      Would businesses and professionals in YOUR AREA be willing to PAY to be in a program that could bring them Clients, Customers or Patients...every month WITHOUT having to pay for printing & mailing (ala Val-Pak)????

      Well...let me tell you....THEY WOULD GLADLY pay to be IN a Program like this!

      Now....as I mentioned above; I am NOT "positioning" myself for a WSO or to try and sell this HERE! It is now UP TO YOU to figure out the details on this (if you care) and find the sources for materials. I simply provided the Basic Idea.

      In one of the programs I brought up here, regarding Fridge Magnets, people who emailed of PMed me got HIGHLY PEEOED when I would NOT provide them with WHERE I GET MY MAGNETS! I was NOT about to simply hand over info that took me DAYS to find and test out.

      Now....I am SURE....someone HERE will find something "negative" to say about this post or some way to "attack" me....it's IN their nature!

      However....someone else MIGHT "see some possiblities for them to MAKE SOME SERIOUS CASH" by developing this idea further!

      If so...GO FOR IT!

      Don Alm....providing "fodder' for the Negaters AND the Possibility Thinkers here
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    And John.

    I also said that if you provide value in your WSOs, fine. I've never bought one of yours, so I can't say one way or another.

    Knowing your experience, I would speculate that you would try to provide value.

    I can also say that 100% (THAT'S ALL OF THEM) of the other "offline" WSOs that I have occasionally purchased to simply gauge what level of information and product is being sold -- have been 100% unmitigated, rehashed crap. Garbage the seller should be ashamed to put their name on, let alone sell. But hey... PT Barnum and stuffs.... Harvard MBA in a PDF... no really... serious... with an OTO...

    So if "YOUR KIND" is "purveyor of poo" to the level of a municipal sewage treatment plant... well, if you waller around in the septic tank, don't get pissed off when someone happens to yell "something stinks like crap around here".

    But if you're creating a great product for a specific market that provides genuine value - fine. YOU SHOULD BE.

    I'd be happy to review your next WSO. But YOU have to agree to print my review unaltered, 100%. If it's a great product, I will say so. If it sucks balls, I will say so.
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Michael I think you and I are going to be the only two people on this thread who understand such a strange chemistry but I could argue with you all day and you are one of the very rare people in life that I could still like the whole time, and want to go have a beer with afterwards.
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    You absolutely know that 100% without any shred of doubt that I meant what I said about having a beer and a great time.

    AND

    And I have to give it to you... you did realize (albeit a second or two too late) that you got trolled when i flipped the moral high ground switcher on you.
  • Profile picture of the author MarcMcroy
    Wellll as a 10 year lurker (hell maybe longer than that)
    May I add, that in the years I've been in and around, I have seen this conversation happen more than once. The names all change, but the words are almost cut and paste..(um not kidding) even down to the trailer park thing. From somebody like me that doesn't make a kabillion a year. I kinda dig the WF, maybe a trailer park but its like the trailer park all the real peeps you like to call friends live in and look out for each others stuff. If its time to move out to the burbs thats cool, shouldn't try to be a hurricane in a trailer park though, should just quietly disappear IMO. Kooks, IMers Extrodinaire, and fledglings alike, don't change a thing. This site is perfect for what it does and and the information and idea exchanges. This a new nic but im in and out. These ideas have helped me personally realize many of my own dreams and yep frustrations too~ friends ya'll stay steady~~~ Im a fan and just thought I'd let ya know you're appreciated
    Marc
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Dadgum moral high ground switch. God I hate that one.
  • Profile picture of the author tjonesga
    ...............WOW..............
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