Cold Calling Discipline Issues

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I haven't read all the threads about cold calling in here so forgive me if some of this has been touched on but I'd like to talk a little about a problem that easily arises when cold calling...

Right now I have a dozen or so telemarketers that generate leads for my remodeling company. I have two supervisors and one manager. The telemarketers are simply reduced to robots who are instructed to read the scripts and rebuttals word-for-word. They generate just enough interest with the homeowner to set an appointment to pass the call on to a supervisor who is experienced and can take over the call from there. This way the telemarketer can get back on the phones and continue their relentless prospecting.

I've read John Durham threads where he talks about how call centers are chock full of low level telemarketers making $9 an hour, closing thousands of dollars in deals daily. Well this is certainly true, which means you can do it too of course, but there's a problem with that.

The reason they do it with no problem is because their daily job consists of simply making calls and reading off a script for a few hours a day. Anything they close is simply a bonus or a way to make the hours go by more pleasantly.

Self discipline is a whole other game.

In mid-september, I wanted to get some two or three full time telemarketers to sell my direct mail services, primarily to help generate leads for my own ventures. I had outsourced a bunch on odesk and elance, getting scammed a couple times, having bad results, and a couple good results as well, but the problem was that I needed more reliability and also some people who could prospect and close the deal in entirety without having to simply generate leads.

So I recruited two guys who were with me years ago, who were both telemarketing managers for the past few years. I got both of them to leave their jobs because they trusted that my vision was good enough to make some serious money.

I put together some simple desks, phones, comfortable chairs, lots of whiteboards, leads to call, and let them go to work on a very high commission % and $$ per lead schedule.

These guys end up struggling to sell, even though they had tremendous amount of experience and expertise. They were going a week making calls without a deal, two weeks, etc.. then picking up small deals that were laydowns. Yet they were putting in lots of calls.

Until I got the phone bill and looked through the outgoing calls. They were fooling themselves, only making around 30-70 actual connects per day, sometimes as little as 20. I confronted them about this and they were shocked to see how little connects they actually made.

We discussed it and they realized how much time was actually wasted drinking coffee, chatting, going out to lunch, smoke breaks, etc...

They both felt that they were so good that call volume didn't really matter that much, that they didn't really need to use a script like the low level marketers, that they could wing it and close due to their expertise. WRONG!

They didn't have the rules and expectations that the low level telemarketers had, which kept them productive. They didn't have the self discipline to follow even what the peons were doing.

Structure and Strategy

So I implemented a firm strategy that would change their mindset and make them more productive (and profitable). Make 1,800 dials per week (360 per day) and I'll pay $800, but with a lower commission on deal sold.

This changed EVERYTHING. Their minds switched completely to making 360 calls per day minimum, rather than focusing on how many leads they set or deals they closed. It completely took the stuff they couldn't control out of the equation.

Within two weeks they had fully shifted their mentality to simply grinding through a few hours of calls per day in order to make $800, and turns out they've both made between $1,500 and $2,000 per week since! And the best part is... I actually pay less than what I would if they were simply making the 360 calls without the $800 incentive!!!


How this translates to your personal cold calling strategy

The whole point of this is that you can't just compare what a $9 telemarketer does every day to what you need to do per day. Even though it should.

Your current mindset is to close deals or set appointments, when really it should be about making X amount of calls, period. The $9 an hour telemarketer doesn't go to work with the goal of setting so many leads per day, they go into work to make calls for 4 hours or whatever, just like a daily job.

The electronics employee at walmart doesn't really give a crap about how much $$ they sell each day, they simply go to work and do their little tasks. Maybe they make some bonuses here and there. That's how they get through it without stress.

I know it's incredibly difficult to muster the self discipline to make a hundred or more calls per day without interruption, for days at a time, using a script, but that's what you need to do. Otherwise, most of you will stress the hell out of yourselves.

You can even fool yourself thinking that you put in a ton of work when really you f**king didn't. You probably made calls while you surfed the internet, drank coffee, pissed, texted, facebooked, smoked, and whatever other crap you did while you should have been straight up making calls. This is how you end up "calling" for 4 hours when you really only had an hour of actual phone time.

If you're going to cold call, shift your mentality to making X amount of calls reading your script verbatim, and don't stop to do ANYTHING until you reach that goal, maybe one 15 minute break in a 3 or 4 hour time frame, but that's it.

If you're cold calling and focusing only on whether or not you're setting leads, you're going to burn out faster than a kitchen match.

Focus on making X amount of calls and THAT'S IT. Let your script and the numbers do their job. Don't like that idea? Don't even get into cold calling, it's not for you.
#calling #cold #discipline #issues
  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    I bet 90% of people struggling to cold call or cold knock on here would succeed if they had a boss breathing down their neck to keep them accountable.

    Self-responsibility is a rarity. See the result of our past election for proof.
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    • Profile picture of the author bob ross
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      I bet 90% of people struggling to cold call or cold knock on here would succeed if they had a boss breathing down their neck to keep them accountable.

      Self-responsibility is a rarity. See the result of our past election for proof.
      Seriously, yeah. It's just funny how even the most experienced guys still struggle with it on their own.

      I've found that even little things like sitting in an actual chair, or putting a shirt and tie on, make a ton of difference in production when working at home where there's so many things to get sidetracked on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Bob Ross; Certainly a "Top Ten" post for the year.

        But, you have two people who actually want to sell. I think that's really one of the core secrets.

        Years ago, in the only single business program I've every used..that failed....

        I was hiring people to sell vacuums in people's homes. One of the lead generation ideas we used was to shampoo a room of carpet for free to demonstrate our vacuum (If you sell vacuums, worst leads ever).

        Anyway, the factory sent a guy to us, telling us to stop paying commissions on sales, and just pay for the demonstrations.

        I hired a dozen people, sent them out to shampoo carpet and sell..and they all completely forgot the selling part.

        No sales for one month. $20,000 in payroll (plus other overhead), but no sales. Why? The idea of selling simply never occurred to the reps. No matter what I said, they convinced themselves that their job was to clean carpets....for free...as some sort of PR stunt.

        I fired them all and went back to work.

        But something that really worked, was basing commissions on sales, but bonuses on activity.

        For example, by the 20th of the month, they may have 6 sales and 15 presentations. But if the hit 30 presentations for the month, they would get a $100 bonus on every sale made for that month. So, they already had sales, they just made more money on the sales they already made, if they kicked the activity in gear. So they would work extra hard the second half of the month on activity, which increased sales. But they never forgot that their sales were what powered the whole machine.

        So gain, you have two great guys that understand selling, but weren't active.

        We've all been there. And you just gave us a cure. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    We all need accountability.

    Most people that have "it" thrive when someone else -- a superior usually -- holds them accountable to certain behavior metrics.

    Remember, even top athletes, actors, and even Presidents have coaches to ensure peak performance.
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  • Profile picture of the author jrod014
    Hey Jake,

    Do you contract those making calls for you or did you hire them?
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    • Profile picture of the author bob ross
      Originally Posted by jrod014 View Post

      Hey Jake,

      Do you contract those making calls for you or did you hire them?
      The two main guys I have now calling were two telemarketing managers I recruited. I worked with them years ago when they were telemarketers.
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Jake,

        In part you wrote:

        I know it's incredibly difficult to muster the self discipline to make a hundred or more calls per day without interruption, for days at a time, using a script, but that's what you need to do. Otherwise, most of you will stress the hell out of yourselves.

        I must be from the wrong school because self discipline isn't difficult. If a guy wants more than minimum wage, he's gotta go get it. What's the driving force?

        Self discipline.

        I'm not arguing with you or saying you are wrong because you lived your story. I'm disheartened to hear the story.

        Oh well, maybe I am from too old of a school...

        Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    Great story. I don't think they have the mindset to work from home, or for themselves, or for you. You did a great thing by giving them minimums, but I'm with Sandalwood...anyone that WANTS to succeed will and doesn't need to be prodded. They just do it.

    We dial no less than 600 numbers a day - each. I was floored reading the 20 connects...what did they THINK was the problem?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Absolutely. Telemarketers need blinders on. I have never believed in alot of cross training for them. Also you keep them on a need to know basis. They need to be singularly focused. Singular focus is the thing that makes low level telemarketers bad asses.

    9 times out of ten they have an over active imagination about their level of effort when there is an issue with hitting quota, as you pointed out Jake, with the numbers. They think they are doing more than they are. Often when you show them they are embarrassed and quickly pick up the pace.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Absolutely. Telemarketers need blinders on. I have never believed in alot of cross training for them. Also you keep them on a need to know basis. They need to be singularly focused. Singular focus is the thing that makes low level telemarketers bad asses.
      You said a mouthful, my friend. I have no real experience with call centers where things are sold. But a lot of experience with telemarketers making appointments...and sales people.

      I made the mistake one day by holding a sales meeting about selling.
      One rep said people bought because we had the very best vacuum cleaner, and the only one that really worked.

      Claude "The Moron" Whitacre actually said something like. "No. They buy because we convince them that we sell the best machine for them. But any salesman worth his salt could show any machine, and prove it's the best. It's a matter of what they believe".

      One rep said "But no vacuum is as sturdy as the one we sell". I said "Sturdy and substantial are just the words we use. If I described it as bulky or heavy....it would kill sales, even though these are also accurate words to describe it"

      See, to me, it's all technique. All perception and selling. Nothing is the best anything. But I had trained these guys to be single focused believers. Now, they started to see that most of this was just a matter of your point of view.

      It killed six reps. Within a week six decent steady reps left. One stayed.
      And these were well trained, intelligent reps.

      For the vast majority of people, seeing all sides of an issue just leads to inaction and chaos.

      And I knew when I was half way through my little talk, that I was destroying their fixed point-of-view. The point-of-view that was making me money.......

      Human nature is an amazing thing to watch. Even when the person I'm watching is me.

      That was years ago, slowly I've learned to save employees from me sharing my 'wisdom" when it will confuse them and grind their activity to a halt.

      I should buy a pair of horse blinders just to remind me.
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      • Profile picture of the author bob ross
        Originally Posted by Mwind076 View Post

        Great story. I don't think they have the mindset to work from home, or for themselves, or for you. You did a great thing by giving them minimums, but I'm with Sandalwood...anyone that WANTS to succeed will and doesn't need to be prodded. They just do it.

        We dial no less than 600 numbers a day - each. I was floored reading the 20 connects...what did they THINK was the problem?
        Right, it was very evident to them once they realized the actual connects, especially once they know I have the phone records.

        All those minutes wasted here and there playing on facebook, texts, smoking, and whatever else add up substantially.

        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Absolutely. Telemarketers need blinders on. I have never believed in alot of cross training for them. Also you keep them on a need to know basis. They need to be singularly focused. Singular focus is the thing that makes low level telemarketers bad asses.

        9 times out of ten they have an over active imagination about their level of effort when there is an issue with hitting quota, as you pointed out Jake, with the numbers. They think they are doing more than they are. Often when you show them they are embarrassed and quickly pick up the pace.
        Right on brother!

        Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

        Jake,

        In part you wrote:

        I know it's incredibly difficult to muster the self discipline to make a hundred or more calls per day without interruption, for days at a time, using a script, but that's what you need to do. Otherwise, most of you will stress the hell out of yourselves.

        I must be from the wrong school because self discipline isn't difficult. If a guy wants more than minimum wage, he's gotta go get it. What's the driving force?

        Self discipline.

        I'm not arguing with you or saying you are wrong because you lived your story. I'm disheartened to hear the story.

        Oh well, maybe I am from too old of a school...

        Tom
        No you're definitely right but I think a lot of people here who take on cold calling aren't in desperate enough situations where they force themselves to stick to a script and daily goal of X dials. They think they can fart around and make what seems like endless calls, then get discouraged or sidetracked.

        If they just plopped their butts down for a few hours a day and did nothing but focus on calling, the money would be rolling in of course, but just having your smart phone on you is a recipe for disaster for most.

        Rearden had a good point above, that even the best athletes have trainers and coaches.
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      • Profile picture of the author bob ross
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You said a mouthful, my friend. I have no real experience with call centers where things are sold. But a lot of experience with telemarketers making appointments...and sales people.

        I made the mistake one day by holding a sales meeting about selling.
        One rep said people bought because we had the very best vacuum cleaner, and the only one that really worked.

        Claude "The Moron" Whitacre actually said something like. "No. They buy because we convince them that we sell the best machine for them. But any salesman worth his salt could show any machine, and prove it's the best. It's a matter of what they believe".

        One rep said "But no vacuum is as sturdy as the one we sell". I said "Sturdy and substantial are just the words we use. If I described it as bulky or heavy....it would kill sales, even though these are also accurate words to describe it"

        See, to me, it's all technique. All perception and selling. Nothing is the best anything. But I had trained these guys to be single focused believers. Now, they started to see that most of this was just a matter of your point of view.

        It killed six reps. Within a week six decent steady reps left. One stayed.
        And these were well trained, intelligent reps.

        For the vast majority of people, seeing all sides of an issue just leads to inaction and chaos.

        And I knew when I was half way through my little talk, that I was destroying their fixed point-of-view. The point-of-view that was making me money.......

        Human nature is an amazing thing to watch. Even when the person I'm watching is me.

        That was years ago, slowly I've learned to save employees from me sharing my 'wisdom" when it will confuse them and grind their activity to a halt.

        I should buy a pair of horse blinders just to remind me.
        Man this was a great post, it's so good to hear and discuss this stuff on here. Could be I'm just always happy to hear B2C stuff hah.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rearden
        That's some deep sh*t right there.

        Drink the Kool-Aid, drink the Kool-Aid...

        Then when you become a Product Agnostic or Product Atheist... lol.

        Where does the salesman fit who sees the short-comings of his product line, but can still sell it without letting its deficiencies go to his head?



        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You said a mouthful, my friend. I have no real experience with call centers where things are sold. But a lot of experience with telemarketers making appointments...and sales people.

        I made the mistake one day by holding a sales meeting about selling.
        One rep said people bought because we had the very best vacuum cleaner, and the only one that really worked.

        Claude "The Moron" Whitacre actually said something like. "No. They buy because we convince them that we sell the best machine for them. But any salesman worth his salt could show any machine, and prove it's the best. It's a matter of what they believe".

        One rep said "But no vacuum is as sturdy as the one we sell". I said "Sturdy and substantial are just the words we use. If I described it as bulky or heavy....it would kill sales, even though these are also accurate words to describe it"

        See, to me, it's all technique. All perception and selling. Nothing is the best anything. But I had trained these guys to be single focused believers. Now, they started to see that most of this was just a matter of your point of view.

        It killed six reps. Within a week six decent steady reps left. One stayed.
        And these were well trained, intelligent reps.

        For the vast majority of people, seeing all sides of an issue just leads to inaction and chaos.

        And I knew when I was half way through my little talk, that I was destroying their fixed point-of-view. The point-of-view that was making me money.......

        Human nature is an amazing thing to watch. Even when the person I'm watching is me.

        That was years ago, slowly I've learned to save employees from me sharing my 'wisdom" when it will confuse them and grind their activity to a halt.

        I should buy a pair of horse blinders just to remind me.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Claude, they say privacy fences make for better neighbors, familiarity breeds contempt. Its tempting to take telemarketers under your wing and tell them everything you know, but its best to keep them at some arms length, and keep them focused on just repeating the action that makes them successful.

    @ Reardon, I think the cool aid is a big part of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Claude, they say privacy fences make for better neighbors, familiarity breeds contempt. Its tempting to take telemarketers under your wing and tell them everything you know, but its best to keep them at some arms length, and keep them focused on just repeating the action that makes them successful.

      @ Reardon, I think the cool aid is a big part of it.
      What a great discussion, Guys.

      Talking about addicts as reps....and paying them bonuses at the end of the day!
      In my life, I've trained two reps that I would categorize as Great. One I took under my wing, and four or five years later was a master craftsman. He asked me one day if I taught him everything I know, I said "90%. But I keep forgetting the other 10%". The other was a cocaine addict. A great family man, and smart as a whip...but every few days he needed cocaine...He was the only natural talent I've ever met. I month after I hired him, he was performing at the top levels. Watching him think his way through presentations was a marvel to behold. he could have been Great. I caught him writing himself "bonuses" out of my checkbook, and it all ended. It's been 20 years, I wish him well.

      My single best canvasser (to register people for a free case of soda, with a demonstration) was a homeless alchoholic that I paid in cash daily. He was so productive, that he kept 5 or 6 reps busy on sppointments...by himself. I remember paying him a hundred or more each day for a few hours of work. One day he just stopped showing up.

      Reardon; I'm in a Dan Kennedy mastermind group. A couple of weeks ago, they had an event, the first one in 6 years I didn't attend. The facilitator of the group asked (at our monthly meeting) why I wasn't going. I said "I never drank the Koolaid."

      This is a group of business owners, all successful by any standard. He asked me to elaborate (an act designed to get me to submit to mild peer pressure). I said "I know how to make Koolaid. I know the formula. I even sell Koolaid. I can describe it's taste and benefits. But I never drank. I never will. It's just not my nature". And this group of friends let it go, and we moved on to other business.


      Reardon; You said "Where does the salesman fit who sees the short-comings of his product line, but can still sell it without letting its deficiencies go to his head?"

      Maybe I gave the wrong message. I would never sell a substandard product. That's a form of fraud. But I see not knowing limitations as a handicap. Knowing what your offer can and can't do, and how it really compares to alternatives, gives your arguments depth and power. But it also takes a little steam out of you. Now you are not working in a cause. Now it's just business. Now it's just math.

      I'm a fan of magic. There is something in me that has to know how it's done. A friend of mine is an accomplished Vegas magician and stage hypnotist. We both love watching great illusionists and seeing who can figure it out first. (He usually wins). But you know what?

      No magician believes in real magic. If they did, they couldn't perform the tricks. And there is a certain loss of joy in knowing how something really works.

      But, dear Reardon, all is not lost. There is skill. My magician friend and I know how Penn & Teller do every trick in their Las Vegas show. I missed one, and my friend told me how it was done.

      My friend gave me a DVD with a Penn & Teller show on it.
      Penn & Teller are so good, They can perform a trick, after they tell you how it's done..and you are still amazed. Their skill level is that high.

      Dan Kennedy can teach you a closing technique, and use that same technique to close you from the front of the room...during the same speech. He's that good. And the stuff he's selling is that good too.

      Your offer becomes an instrument that you play. The instrument no longer counts, it's the music you produce.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Dan Kennedy can teach you a closing technique, and use that same technique to close you from the front of the room...during the same speech. He's that good. And the stuff he's selling is that good too.

        Many times i have been in the qualifying process and the prospect
        will try and gian control by asking

        "are you trying to sell me something"

        I say "No" I am pre qualifying you, when I sell you some thing
        you will know it. and then I segway right back into the process,

        When i have all my ammo and ready to transition, I just say fairly bluntly
        Now i am going to sell you ...

        Not once have I had that back fire, it works really, really
        well on the corporate wannabes and people of that ilk.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          "are you trying to sell me something"

          I say "No" I am pre qualifying you, when I sell you some thing
          you will know it
          . and then I segway right back into the pitch,

          When i have all my ammo and ready to transition, I just say fairly bluntly
          Now i am going to sell you ...
          It gets a little tiring saying that something you said was brilliant.:rolleyes:

          In that little exchange, they tried framing themselves as the Alpha male (or Alpha female), and you took it away from them.

          I've done similar things, but if they have an employee or partner there with them, I immediately give them some status back. Just not from me.

          For example, after your exchange above (or my version, which is "I haven't decided yet")
          I might say to the employee "Your boss has a very nuanced understanding of human nature".
          It makes the prospect look smarter, and it makes me look even smarter because I'm judging and approving something the prospect said.

          I was showing a regional manager for Pepsi a vacuum cleaner in his home. He gave me question, I answered it. I guess you could cal it a close. He looked at me and said "That's a hell of a close!" I said "And it worked, didn't it."

          He said "It sure did". We're all salesmen.

          I just thought I would mention this.

          When someone says something like "You're a great salesman (or woman)",
          it can be a trap. It's a way of them saying "You are using techniques to sell, and I recognize that...so I'm not buying".

          They are crediting your sales skills as the reason they want to buy. Mostly this is on an unconscious level. Nobody is reasoning this out before they say it. In the beginning I would say something stupid like "Yes, I'm the top salesman in the state. I appreciate the compliment". You just listened to a sales killer.

          Only it's not a compliment. So eventually, I would say "Thank you. But it's not that I'm any great salesman. It's that we are lucky enough to find the exact best product to fit your needs. It's not me that's great, it's the product. I'm just explaining it."

          See? After I leave, they just have what I sold them. So I'm transferring any good feelings to the offer I'm presenting them. Advanced Kung Fu.
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        • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Many times i have been in the qualifying process and the prospect
          will try and gian control by asking

          "are you trying to sell me something"

          I say "No" I am pre qualifying you, when I sell you some thing
          you will know it. and then I segway right back into the pitch,

          When i have all my ammo and ready to transition, I just say fairly bluntly
          Now i am going to sell you ...

          Not once have I had that back fire, it works really, really
          well on the corporate wannabes and people of that ilk.
          I'm jealous cuz I never thought of saying "No, I'm prequalifying you" to a prospect. God is that great or what... That is my new line. It turns their head completely around. Now they have to qualify to get what I have. Love it...

          Yessir, love this forum. There's always a nugget worth more than its weight in titanium here.

          Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    John, I'm guessing that you've had this experience as well but crackheads, addicts or gambling addicts tend to be incredible as well, just not so reliable.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      John, I'm guessing that you've had this experience as well but crackheads, addicts or gambling addicts tend to be incredible as well, just not so reliable.
      For real. Anyone who has run a room will have stories out the wazzoo about them.

      They are the most brilliant pain in the asses ever... and when they show up
      they make gobs of money ... as long as you monitor them so they dont wind
      up making promises that are impossible to keep.

      The best salesman I have ever met, my personal frienemy was a closet recreational crack user for years.

      This guy was pure talent. Sold honest. He finally lost the fight a few
      years ago and is now a full blown addict with no future.

      what a waste.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Addictions unfortunately go in hand with telemarketing rooms it seems, the problem is when they run out, cant perform and start missing work...Alcoholics, coke heads...you name it. They arent all like that but half are. Its because call centers dont require employees to have back ground checks, or high school diplomas. Just a willingness to dial and make sales.

    Ps. This is also a reason why daily cash bonuses work real well in telemarketing rooms. Give a coke head, or any other kind of addict a chance to make $100 cash per day, you got yourself a dedicated daily worker... morbid but true.
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  • Profile picture of the author ColdCallCommando
    You're right. I remember when I first started cold calling my results were terrible, and I felt like I was putting in tremendous work. I wasn't until I started using Phone Burner which is a power dialer did the whole cold calling thing really start to pay off.

    Phone burner kept track of the calls and connects I made so it helped me not only monitor my performance, but also call a much much higher volume of leads.

    -The Cold Call Commando
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    Again...Ken is a genius. I LOVE this...

    ""are you trying to sell me something"

    I say "No" I am pre qualifying you, when I sell you some thing
    you will know it. and then I segway right back into the pitch,

    When i have all my ammo and ready to transition, I just say fairly bluntly
    Now i am going to sell you ..."
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