So... You TM gurus? Durham, Ken, Kanigan, Nameless?

Agreed. My first thought was: "great - if I find out your leads are junk, you'll replace them with... wait for it... more junk."

On the flip side, if the guy is offering a legit service and I'm a complete tool when it comes to selling, how do you offer a guarantee and not lose your ass?

As for the "deal" - there really isn't much more to tell. My gut tells me that his web site is what it is. He offers "seo", but has "a guy" to handle whatever small amount of seo business he pulls in. Doesn't offer web design, etc. He's a late middle-aged under-achiever who figured out a way to supplement his wife's income and do OK. That's my take, based upon the conversation. If I can close a couple leads out of 10 at $50 each, I'll be just dandy - and won't have to dial for dollars.

As for the rest of the "cold calling is/isn't worth it" conversation...

I understand the reticence to buy into cold calling. I understand the "it's something that guys do for $10 and hour" mentality. The truth, though, is pretty much as IAMNAMELESS told it. It's pretty much free, and is a way to bring in business. If you're a huge ass company, it's a way to be extremely profitable. You've got the bankroll, and you bring in a guy like Durham to deal with the cattle. Pay him well, and he sifts through the crap to find the gems. Over. And over. And over. You foot the bill, and in the end, you're rolling in dough. Personally, I've found that while it is profitable, I simply don't like it. If my back were up against a wall, I would be knocking out calls tomorrow, all day. As it isn't, I do other things. Hopefully, I'll be smart enough to work things out so that I don't HAVE to dial for dollars ever again. No guarantees though.

Moving on...

NAMELESS - I am ALL EARS if you're feeling particularly generous about the "other sources" of leads that you mentioned. I wouldn't expect you to give much away, but I'm always open to learning. Not holding my breath, but I'll keep my PM box cleared out just in case... If nothing else, I've never heard of business.com, so I'll check it out.

Thanks for chiming in, fellas...

I didn't mean to spin it, it is just how it came across to me. I wasn't really attacking you, but a lot of people have that same mind set and then they spin it out of control.

As for it not being cost effective... everything on this forum is relative, and subjective, not concrete. Somebody that is just starting out, yeah, it is cost effective. It is cost effective because they don't need to put money into it, they can just get started. It is relative. Is it cost effective for you to be on the phone all day? Maybe not... It all depends and can be different based on your situation.

Some people literally, are broke. They don't have a single dollar to do anything with, so outsourcing isn't even an option. I was one of those people before. It all depends on where you are.

The average pay someone can make, has everything to do with this thread. Going on still about how it CAN BE ideal for someone to be making calls and doing it themselves. Many people on here have been trying for months to get a sale, doing it their own way. Cold calling is the easiest way to make money quickly, without investing money.

Anyway, the reason I brought up the amount of money... is because you said:

And then...

And that is why I said even an average caller will make 4-5K/mo, easily.. in take home.

That is a pretty good return for them, and for the business.

From what you said, it seemed like you thought it was a waste.. If you outsourced it, or had a TM staff, then I clearly didn't see that, and didn't understand why you said that if you did.

Maybe I took it the wrong way, I dunno. I'm not trying to twist your words, just how I saw it.

For the most part. Three guys in total. One has 30 years in TM. He is averaging 400 calls a day. No one-call-closes, but he is doing it all over the phone. Nothing in person, and is the least productive of the three. Guy is afraid of his own shadow, but somehow can get it together on the phone.

Guy #2 has experience in TM - donations for the sherriff's office, setting remodeling appointments, lawn care leads, etc. He is setting his own appointments, and for the most part closing them himself. He's light on tech knowledge, so about 20% of the time I make a phone call as "the boss" and seal things up, answer specifics, etc.

Guy #3, the most productive, is 23. He is the only one that I have actually sat down with face to face. The others are 2-4 hours away. He reminds me of the kid from The Boiler Room. Balls the size of watermelons, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He is strictly pounding pavement, door to door. Doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks, and could outsell me with his eyes closed wearing a stained shirt any day of the week. Fairly tech savvy - can't do it himself, but can talk about web sites, social marketing, SEO, etc. Kid has a hard-on for Youtube, which helps. That's what I actually enjoy, so I'm better at the upsell.

They all get the same split. Eventually that will have to change, but I'm only in month #2 with them on board. They're all making me money, and I'm not yet at the point where my time is worth SO MUCH that I can focus on who is making me the most.

Again, pretty much. If I could call some very warm leads and have a shot at closing 2-3 out of 10, over the phone, without appointments... yeah, I'm OK with paying $50 a piece for them.

Nothing is that easy, but I'll play along. I am pretty low key. I offer a service that works for small businesses. I explain it, hit the basic pain/need points, and show how I intend to actually make them money. Simple, but it has worked well enough for me. I started off at $497 when I was doing it by myself. It didn't take long to realize that regardless of the price, the objections were the same. $500, $1000, it's all the same. Price doesn't really matter.

I'm not a rank beginner, although I can see how I might come across that way. Did some basic TM in college, owned a mortgage company for 8 years, and had a piece of the family manufacturing business for about 5. Small place with 6 employees. We went from doing about 500K when I started, to 950K when I left. The doubling came from the addition of a web site, some basic SEO, extremely targeted hard core email campaigns, and a lot of dialing from yours truly. Targeted dialing, though. I only had 500 potential customers in the US. When I called I knew who I was looking for and why they should speak with me. We had a very, very unique product that was "almost" as good as another well-known product - and could comfortably sell it for half the price. Whole different ballgame from this internet marketing stuff.

Price point starts at $997 and goes up. I don't nickle and dime. We typically handle content, graphic/logo design, etc. Lots of hand holding. Car lots, tattoo shops, etc. tend to fall in the $1500 or so range, with eCommerce sites in the $2500 range, depending on complexity. If it's out of my ability I shoot for the stars and expect to outsource it. Haven't landed one of those yet. Billy Bob's Cafe is $997.

No worries on the questions. Ask away. There is so much Bull$hit in here that I welcome a real discussion, even if that means I have to post every once in a while...