John Durham: Entrepreneur, Telemarketing Expert, Warrior … OWNER OF MANY FAILURES.

by John Durham 77 replies
Hey Warriors, I want to share something that is very close to my heart right now. This post isn’t about some secret skill, strategy, or a lesson on phone sales as usual. This post is for your encouragement, so that you can see we aren’t all some kind of glamorous big deal just because we have had some successes and maybe that will help you see more for your own life.

See, I’ve posted things that help a lot of people get into telemarketing, and many of them have been able to develop some very successful businesses from it. It is awesome to see and an awesome feeling to know that through my experience I have contributed in some way, to quite a few peoples success around here by sharing my experience.

This isn’t about what I have done in my career though. This isn’t about how many sales I’ve made, or how much money I’ve made. This is a post for those of you who are struggling. We all have struggles, we all have made mistakes, and we all want to better ourselves!

When I started out I made 8 dollars per hour as a telemarketer with both a wife and daughter to support… I lived in an apartment so bad that there were HOLES in the walls. In fact several, because for our first few years starting out, we were poor! Lol Shocker, I know.

Often even 30 days behind on rent and had to move from place to place a lot, sometimes even having utilities shut off and things of that nature.… JUST LIKE MANY OF YOU!

Don’t get me wrong, I was really good on the phone, but even being the best telemarketer… it still just wasn’t enough to make it. It wasn’t till later when I put those skills to work for ME in businesses of my own.

It took me a lot of trial and error to learn to succeed, because when I was a young father and husband, from a single mother, and I didn’t really have any reference point for how to succeed.

Telemarketing seemed like a way to learn some better skills than working in a factory…but I promise you, it didn’t pay much for a few years, so in short, my journey hasn’t ALL been big and glamorous, as you may gather from the stories of success I tell that came along later.

Why am I sharing this?

Because I feel a need to… Yeah I have seen some pretty amazing things on my journey, I wont even mention figures at this point as I have posted those all about this forum, but it hasn’t been all that some of you have probably perceived of when you hear only the stories of the successes, there were plenty of failures to go along with that, and start overs... which I don’t tend to focus on, but maybe I should share more on that stuff.

Again, I wish I can tell you how my life was an easy ride and I went to sales stardom overnight, and some of you may perceive that from hearing about all these more successful endeavors, but it wasn’t like that.

Okay, so Im pretty! I have that going for me...doesn’t mean anything. Lol (Pretty bald that is).

Believe it or not, sometimes I still have tough months if I don’t work my tail off… they arent a rough as the old days by far, and they are rough in a different way, but I still have them from time to time, and its okay if you are in those positions sometimes, you CAN work from that place, and you can still achieve.

Maybe you have had a rough go of it, and you cant even stand to HEAR me tell these stories because things arent going for you the way you hear me say they have went for me…believe me, where you are… I can relate to that.

Truth is:

I’ve been from a comfortable job earning a decent living married and upwardly mobile, to being in a cold apartment wondering how I’m going to pay for my next meal more than once, then climbed back up again and built a business of my own and had great years…only to fall yet again… It happens.

Looking back, it was all a learning experience that I am grateful for, but during the hard times it was scary.

No matter what kind of business you’re going into for yourself, you will experience times that are really scary. Fear is an interesting thing though, and it keeps many people from pursuing your dreams.

I hope to help you break some of that by knowing that I have been scared a lot too in my time. I feel like a Lion today, but it grew into that feeling from being a scared little lamb. If I was always srtrong, then I wouldnt be able to help people who are afraid, because I wouldnt understand them. So I am thankful for that.

I haven’t always been an angel either for those of you who think “Oh I am not goody two shoes, I cant succeed like these preppy people…”…Lol. If you only knew…

After my first couple of telemarketing jobs, I got a lucky break and entered the music industry for 7 years, got caught up in a lifestyle, started partying hard, and was even arrested with a drug possession charge. Actually, I got 2 charges from the same instance. Luckily I didn’t go to prison!

The path I was headed, was me digging 6 feet under and I was preparing a tombstone for myself. I wasn’t responsible at all, I wasn’t heading in the direction that I wanted. Getting busted, saved my life in some senses, even though it lost me my music career.

Back then home life wasn’t all pretty either, we weren’t the brady bunch I will tell you that… I was just real determined and dedicated to success, that doesn’t mean the whole world was perfect, maybe yours isnt either, and its okay, you can still work and move forward from there.

A few nights after I got busted… I just completely broke down. I came to the realization of what my life was amounting to. Again, Looking back, I could have died and not been able to provide for my daughter, and things started finally turning around for me.

I want you to know this.

I have been walked on, beaten, arrested, called names, and I have had to start over numerous times in life in order to be able to move forward. I have been divorced, more than once (didn’t learn my lesson the first time lol).

I have had many trials as a parent as a result of those years of undignified living, and it has been tough.

Somehow though I have been able to overcome all of that and have been able to see some brilliant successes that I never even dreamed possible, and I want you to know that wherever you are coming from, you can too!

Lastly,

Yeah I know, not everything I do even today makes everyone happy.

Just know that you can’t make EVERYONE happy, and some are going to be unhappy and hate you no matter what. Some are going to despise you because of your hard times, and others will despise you if you had a silver spoon and never had a hard time in your life…All I can do is try your best.

The beauty of life is that the mistakes you make, and the failures you’ve had, you can always learn from them and better yourself.

Each and every single one of you aspiring entrepreneurs, and even those of you who have been around the block already, you all have so much power to overcome struggles. You will have struggles, I promise you that, but all of you have the ability to overcome them if you are dedicated enough.

Going from being arrested, to proudly supporting my entire family, even TWO families now, with what I have been able to achieve out of all that, is a wonderful experience. What if I would have given up? Where would I be? What stories would I have to tell? Who could I inspire? Only people who dont need it?

We’re approaching Christmas, and I just want to give you all the gift of hope. You CAN accomplish your dreams. You may even be able to do it without telemarketing.

You can put your best foot forward and prepare to crush all the road blocks that are placed in front of you. You can learn from all the struggles you have, and conquer them. When you think you’re hitting rock bottom you either keep digging or you climb out. Either way, you have the power to succeed even if it takes a couple rounds of failure, kicking your ass!

Don’t let where you are now determine where you are going, don’t let your circumstances determine who you are, because who you are can change them.
No life hasn’t been a bed of roses always… but it has also been an amazing journey, and there is more to come.

Just keep pressing toward the prize, and take it from this projects kid… The person you become along the way is damn worth it!

I swear on the Bible!

Sincerely,

John Durham - Telemarketing Warrior
#offline marketing #durham #entrepreneur #expert #failures #john #owner #telemarketing #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Damn.. This thread is pretty refreshing. I love the transparency and your story, it really brings specific memories back for me. I know I've told my story quite a few times on here, I was in really bad shape when I first decided to give this business a go. I climbed out of a bad situation.

    What I don't tell people as often... all the times after that, that have been struggles, and bad situations lol.

    It's much easier to talk about the good times, and when you're unstoppable. You know what though? It probably IS more beneficial for many visitors on this forum to hear about our struggles more than our successes.

    We get caught up in a lot of different techniques and strategies, that people just browsing, can't wrap their head around. Hell, I remember you and someone else talking about take overs and some other terminology I never heard of lol.

    Success... sometimes success is just being able to climb out of a shitty situation. It's not about mansions, cars, being able to blow big money on stupid things.. Success for most aspiring members, is just to be able to provide for their family, doing something they love.

    Congrats to you... I have friends that had a lot of promise in their lives, they got caught up in a lifestyle too. Some never bounced back. My parents actually run a recovery group and I've seen far too many people never bouncing back. It's sad.. but when someone does, it really makes for an inspiring story.

    You brought up another good point, when you said:
    Don’t get me wrong, I was really good on the phone, but even being the best telemarketer… it still just wasn’t enough to make it. It wasn’t till later when I put those skills to work for ME in businesses of my own.
    I don't even consider myself as someone good at a lot of techniques... I think the bigger issue is the mindset. Some people can be good, but not in the right mindset.
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  • Profile picture of the author RiskTaker
    Nice to see someone discuss the power of failure and how its lead to success. Wonder why no one has ever posted a WSO on failing well lol ... guess not a market for that one.

    Keep it 100
    Signature

    Get Paid

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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by RiskTaker View Post

      Nice to see someone discuss the power of failure and how its lead to success. Wonder why no one has ever posted a WSO on failing well lol ... guess not a market for that one.

      Keep it 100
      Failure isn't sexy. We all fail though, the difference is in how we learn from failures and grow to be a better person, and turning that experience into a successful one.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by RiskTaker View Post

      Nice to see someone discuss the power of failure and how its lead to success. Wonder why no one has ever posted a WSO on failing well lol ... guess not a market for that one.

      Keep it 100

      Exactly.

      The idea here is that the people who cant even concieve making $100 let alone $100,000 hide in the shadows because they dont feel they fit in because of that, and are afraid to participate alot of times. Alot of people have never even seen the inside of a nice hotel, they dont know where they fit in with all this big talk.

      Thats okay, sales is a way to make money and learn big money skills, even for people who have never even seen the inside of a hotel. Its an opportunity for EVERYONE, not just big talkers with a ton of experience. As for me, mine came the hard way.

      Here's an example of starting over again even AFTER some really nice successes. It happens:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ess-phone.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Saluki Guy
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          My story of setbacks and failures may help others too.

          Not to get in a match to tell a bigger story to show-off.

          I had few friends at school and wasn't good at
          studying or sports. Left school at the minimum allowable age
          of 15.

          We lived out in the country on 5 acres, so I liked being around animals and the land.

          Got a job working on a sheep and cattle farm.
          Those type of jobs seemed quite easy to get back then.

          Moved on to bigger farms where there were more single shepherds
          working on them. This got me into beer drinking and driving while drunk.

          Ended up smashing up cars, wrecking farmers fences and getting caught by the police for
          driving under the influence of alcohol.

          The second time was before I was due to appear in court for the first charge.

          Ended up having a warrant out for my arrest.

          Got a lawyer to quash it.

          Lost my drivers license for 9 months and got fined,
          I forget now, something under $1,000.

          I lived 30 minutes from town, and the farm owner would take me into town when he or his wife went in. This was to buy my food.

          So now I saw the trouble my actions were causing others.

          Made the decision to go off booze altogether.

          Haven't touched it since.

          While at that job as Livestock Manager, I started buying investment homes to rent out.

          Bought 5 within 18 months.

          Had also invested in 3 Red Deer for breeding.

          Lost money on them as the prices dropped.

          Also got into Network Marketing with Herbalife.

          With my new sense of success I handed in my notice.

          That day will always stick with me.

          I was in a mess because of the responsibility I felt for looking after the sheep and cattle.

          And it was the yearly review time where we would plan out the next years goals.

          I knew if I didn't leave then, I would never start my entrepreneurial journey.

          So 2 major opposing forces were tearing me up.

          I went and spoke to the owner and blurted out that I was leaving and tears started running down my face.

          Man I was a mess!

          About a year into my new life I was bankrupt.

          One of the tenants stopped paying rent what ended up months. Took ages to get a court order to kick him and family out.

          Meanwhile I was mortgaged up to my eyeballs.

          Living in a bare house with a mattress on the floor.
          Would lie low so the debt collectors couldn't see me.

          To get away from them I lived in my car.

          Tried to negotiate with a bank to pay off the loan,
          or should I say, I said except my repayment plan or I will put myself into bankruptcy.

          They didn't accept so I followed through with my word.

          Went back living with my parents and got a part time job as a cook at KFC.

          Wasn't enough to live on so got Government welfare.

          Travelled to a fruit growing area and knocked on doors to see if I could get a job apple picking.

          Eventually got one then the season finished.

          Got a job pruning the fruit trees with a contractor and worked for him for a few years
          as he had work for most of the year.

          Worked like hell, Christmas days and other public holidays to save up.

          Managed to save up to buy a lawnmowing franchise in the big city of Auckland.

          I was a country boy at heart but grew to like the city life.

          After a couple of years I realized that if I could get good at getting my own customers,
          then I didn't need the Franchise.

          So really studied marketing and put what I was learning into practice.

          They had a buy back program, but couldn't sell my business.

          So I took a BIG gamble and walked out on the contract.

          100% of my clients came over to me.

          The Franchise couldn't touch me, even though they were very unhappy what I did.

          I started to measure
          the number of leads phoning in
          how many I converted
          What was the dollar sale
          frequency of service
          retention of clients
          and graded the clients

          The last one was crucial to sack the bad clients.

          With all my systems and high performance I was seriously looking at franchising.

          Problem was I had first hand experience of the low quality of franchisees being recruited and the amount of "baby sitting" they did.

          I spoke with a co-founder of NZ's largest home services franchise
          who wrote up franchise agreements for other's as well.

          She talked about the work and support needed to run the franchise system.

          So I thought stuff that, let's just sell a better business to guys and they won't have the ongoing monthly fees.

          So that's what I did.

          Built up from scratch and sold off a number of client bases of loyal, high paying and A grade ones.

          So from first entering into the Lawnmowing game to leaving, it was 11 years.

          I was forced out when struck by Shingles.

          Woke up one morning and it was as if my mind was taken from me, my energy was sapped
          and electric shocks going through my temple.

          It damaged my eye so in out of hospital for treatment,
          my knees and ankles had constant pain through worn cartledge in my joints.

          I had noises in my ears which stopped me from sleeping at night

          My body was a real mess.

          A few weeks into it I was able to think a bit clearer to see if can round up some guys to take care of my clients.

          The arrangement was they get 100% of the money.

          I just wanted them taken care of and when I got better I would still have a business.

          Well clients started to drop off.

          One of the guys told clients that I was selling and they may as well stay with him.

          So I did sell but about half the size of the business to when I fell ill.

          So I had to not get angry, and move on because it's stress that triggers Shingles.

          Thankfully I've got my mind back, Shingles have gone,
          the pain has gone from my joints, drug free, sleep well.

          And I'm back in business again.

          Oh just remembered, another tale of bankruptcy!

          I had a big fight with the Tax Department.
          Naturally caused a lot of stress.

          Wont go into details of the case,
          but I said the so called tax and penalties are B.S. and
          I'm not paying. And you'll not get anything out of me because there is a higher law in our country which supersedes yours, and that is the Justice Department.

          When a person is in bankruptcy, the Justice Department takes over all affairs and distributes all money.

          So I put my self into bankruptcy so they ended up with no money.

          Till the end they said they would be going after the bogus money owed.
          Didn't touch me after bankruptcy.

          I was able to get the Courts dispensation to carry on running a business.

          Anyway, that's a little about my life story.

          You might get some inspiration, don't know.

          Being in business is the greatest opportunity for self development there is.

          Make the most of it.

          Best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            I hope you guys take this the right way. I see a pattern. I've known hundreds of Entrepreneurs. One of the things they have in common is a real struggle early in life....and maybe not so early in life.

            I wonder how I would have turned out if my parents were both sane, my school life was normal, I got a job that paid well, I never drank or did drugs, or married the right woman the first time.

            What if I wasn't a shy clumsy teenager? What if selling came easy to me? What if ........

            Now......what if I didn't have a few mentors that showed me a better way. What if I wasn't used to struggling? What if things came easy and I didn't have to force myself to try again. What if I would have been a normal kid, a normal young man, a normal salesman?

            I wouldn't be Great at what I do. That's what.
            Scars are evidence of a triumph.

            Yup, I talk like that in real life.

            Ewen, John....you are examples of what comes out the other end after hardship.

            We are stronger than we think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob28x
    Thanks for sharing your stories John. I am at a low point as well right now, but having a hard time staying focused on one thing, and being motivated enough to do what it takes to make it happen. I guess you could say I am stuck at being a wantrepreneur right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Luuk Terhorst
    Great contribution John! Thanks for sharing.
    Signature
    If you dismiss the things that do not matter; if you remove those things from your mind and focus on what must be done; if you understand that your time is limited and decide to work now; only then will you be able to get to the finish line.

    "Unknown"
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  • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
    Here's a quote I got from a motivational video I just watched the other day that I think fits it nicely here.

    Being overwhelmed is part of the deal. Being confused means you're making progress. Being frustrated means you know where you want to be you're just not there yet.
    Great thread.

    Thanks,

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    "Got to keep on pushin,
    I can't stop now.
    Move up a little higher,
    some way, some how.
    'Cuz I got my strength,
    don't make sense,
    not to keep on pushin'."

    The words from the song in the Samsung commercial featuring LeBron. I notice the song because it didn't really fit the commercial to me.

    I use this song to motivate myself to get going(cold calling), to do tasks I don't want to do(email marketing). I helps me focus/ and have gratitude for my ability to run my business. Many people don't have the fortitude to keep pushing through the tough times, I do, and I am truly grateful for it.

    Thanks, guys for some down to earth inspiration.
    Signature



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  • Profile picture of the author Bayo
    Great thread John as always.

    It reminds me of something that I've shared many times with coaching students and anyone that would care to listen, for the simple reason that it shows everyone has their own challenges along the way.

    There was a significant point in time along my journey where things were so tough that my wife and I had to choose between buying a load of bread and milk or a loaf of bread and just one other item. We were at that point because we could not afford to buy three items to make up what we would eat for the next couple of days as our meal.

    It was that tough, but it also was the turning point where I made the life-changing decision to do whatever it takes to live life on my terms and never again be in a situation where I wouldn't be able to offer my family even the basics in life.

    While that hasn't been the only 'hard knock' along the way, I thank God for the experience because if it hadn't happened, things probably would not be what they are today. A lot more might have been taken for granted.

    The lessons continue.

    BAYO
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Here is how I started out 23 years ago...

    As for me, I just never had anyone in life to really show me how to be a man... So it took me years to figure it out. I knew that the factory life wasnt what I wanted... I knew there was more. All I ever wanted to do was play music.

    I had started playing in bars as a country guitarist by age 13, but by age twenty it still wasnt working out, so I played on weekends for extra cash, and the rest of my life was just trying to figure out how I could make money in the real world.

    There really wasnt anything other than chicken plant work in the Area I came from in Arkansas, where I had worked when I was seventeen, also playing in bands on weekends...When someone told me they could get me on at a publishing company in Indiana as a songwriter... So I packed up my pickup truck, left my wife and daughter in Arkansas with my parents, and my plan was to go there and get set up in a place and bring them on... had big dreams that things would be awesome.

    The last thing my grandfather ever said to me was that Arkansas was no place for a young man to raise a family, that I should get out and come back when I retire....

    Well I got to Indiana, and stayed with my cousin, and the Pub deal didnt happen... So not wanting to look like a fool and go back to Arkansas with my tail between my legs... Having no education because I had quit school to play in a band full time at 13, I took a factory job in some boat factory in Elk hart Indiana.

    This guy was from new Zealand "Charles"... he had investors for some new kind of life raft he had created, and he had this little assembly line set up... He paid me ten bucks per hour... there were like two other guys, later there would be about five.

    Well I worked 14 hour days with Charles hand in hand to churn out hundreds of these boats, because I wanted all the hours I could get, in order to get a place and get my family to there with me.

    I finally had enough to get us some kind of crummy place but it was at least a start. Worked my tail off. Sweat pouring everywhere, no air con in that factory and terrible burnt rubber smell but the good thing was that he would let me work all the hours I wanted, so I just worked until I couldnt stand up anymore, every day.

    Then a few weeks later I drove back to Arkansas, got a trailer and picked up my wife and daughter and brought them back to Indiana.

    He gave my wife a job too, and so for a little while there we both worked...and things started looking up, and Charles from new Zealand became such a good friend. He and his wife became "our" friends.

    He told me that once the factory expanded out I was going to be the head honcho, and I believed in him. We all had great plans.

    Then one morning we came in and he said there were only going to be two more days of work- taking down the factory. Suddenly his investor had backed out.

    For a minute I thought he was joking, but he was serious.

    It ended right there.

    To make matters worse , it was the end of the month and rent was due… I hadn’t planned for this.

    I was devastated.

    Here I was in the middle of the freezing winter with a baby and a young wife and a foot an a half of snow on the ground….two days worth of pay, the rent due, truck almost out of gas…

    I couldn’t find any work anywhere because Elkhart was about the RV industry and it had recently taken a hit and that’s where all the work was… but people were getting laid off like crazy.

    So I took a job as a bus boy at shoneys.

    The pay was only two dollars and ten cents per hour plus tips.

    Well that was enough to feed us every night, and buy milk and pampers… but it wasn’t enough to cover all the bills… so we ran late on rent, and somehow were able to stay for the rest of the next month, but things weren’t going my way, I even sold my blood at one point to buy food (still have the scar from it, because I did it several times during that period) because the town was depressed and there was no work and my schedule at shoneys was only 20 hours per week.

    Like I said, we lived day to day on tips, and my pay was only once every two weeks and it wasn’t much, maybe a couple hundred dollars.

    I was in deep shit.

    Finally we got kicked out of our apartment.

    So… I took that little paycheck and I moved us into a hotel, a little cheap rat hole.

    It didn’t even have a refrigerator, I had to put my daughters milk in the back of my truck (luckily it was filled with snow, and that was our refrigerator.

    We ate things like tuna and macaroni…lol It was bad.

    To make matter worse, my truck broke down and I ended up having to walk 3 miles to work everyday, in the snow, and for TWO DOLLARS AND TEN CENTS PER HOUR!

    This wasn’t working out.

    Next thing you know my work schedule was slowing down and I knew I wasn’t going to make it.

    So I called my father in law… because he was pretty rich, but he was also an asshole.

    I said “Can you just take my wife and daughter on until I can get around this….I don’t care to live on the street till I get through this, but I cant put THEM through that.

    He said “You are a man, and its your family, you work it out”. And He wouldn’t take them.
    Talk about a lot of pressure, we were about to get kicked out of the hotel too.

    I had made a friend who knew what we were going through , and that friend invited me to bring my family to his home and stay for a few weeks till we could get on our feet.

    So ashamedly I did…that meant giving up shoney's, because he lived in south bend , an hour away. So he took us in and helped me fix my truck… and I went looking for work.

    Couldn’t find any, so I tried selling rainbow vacuum cleaners, walking door to door in the snow. It didn’t work out, I was too desperate and it showed.

    Finally some place called consolidated construction gave me a job…for 8 bucks per hour setting appointments for construction salesman, and that’s where my telemarketing journey began.

    If anyone wants me to continue this story let me know… I think its pretty interesting, but its getting long.

    - John Durham - Telemarketing Warrior
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I don't want the newer ones on their entrepreneurial journey,
      to think that John and I are a couple of old grandfathers sitting on the verandah talking past glory days.

      We prefer to keep them to ourselves because they are a distraction from moving forward with our goals and plans.

      When you spend too much time looking back at the past, you stop yourself from moving forward.

      However, it can't hurt in finding out a bit of our background
      so that we've had to overcome our struggles to get where we are now.

      There are bound to be others here that have had bigger and more daunting obstacles to overcome than what has been told here.

      Knowing this just may make a stronger inner strength for some of you.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    That's what Im thinking Ewen, the amazing part is that I DID end up seeing success in telemarketing beyond my wildest dreams... and I did get to go to Nashville later and play with top musicians...

    It slowly starts working better from here but there were many starts and stops... I made it out of this above situation through telemarketing, but the troubles wouldnt be over yet...

    I do think its important for others to see these kinds of things. Some are born with a silver spoon, and good examples of how to be successful in life, but many others are lost trying to figure it out on their own...they arent alone, and you CAN overcome the odds.

    Anyway, Im enjoying the reflection, have always kind of wanted to write this stuff, but dont want to force it on anyone, if there is interest I will type on as I get the opportunity.

    You kinda remind me of Charles by the way!

    - John Durham - Telemarketing Warrior

    Ps. I want to thank a friend on this thread , who I wont name, for urging me to write it. Frankly over 5000 posts I have already talked about almost all of this, but people dont put the pieces together, and all they hear is "Hundreds of thousands of dollars" , which later happened... but its good to see it all in one lump so you can assimilate it.

    Not that my story is any more interesting than anyone elses, but I have alot of followers, and some of them dont read all the posts, even more of them do, but again, the pieces are so scattered, and they want to understand my journey, so I dont mind writing it if someone wants to know...all in one bite where it can be assimilated.

    I also want to thank you and bayo and others for being so open about yours too!

    How does this apply to offline and not mind warriors?

    Its the story of how an offliner over came his odds.

    -John
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      John, I don't carry the past as shame or as a badge of honour.

      Just accepting of it.

      Besides hanging around younger ones that are driving fast forward
      in business is much more interesting than my past.

      People want real solutions for the challenge in front of them now.

      Who the fck is Charles BTW? lol

      P.S. Read your last post and found out about Charles from NZ.

      Best,
      Ewen

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      That's what Im thinking Ewen, the amazing part is that I DID end up seeing success in telemarketing beyond my wildest dreams... and I did get to go to Nashville later and play with top musicians...

      It slowly starts working better from here but there were many starts and stops... I made it out of this above situation through telemarketing, but the troubles wouldnt be over yet...

      I do think its important for others to see these kinds of things. Some are born with a silver spoon, and good examples of how to be successful in life, but many others are lost trying to figure it out on their own...they arent alone, and you CAN overcome the odds.

      Anyway, Im enjoying the reflection, have always kind of wanted to write this stuff, but dont want to force it on anyone, if there is interest I will type on as I get the opportunity.

      You kinda remind me of Charles by the way!

      - John Durham - Telemarketing Warrior

      Ps. I want to thank a friend on this thread , who I wont name, for urging me to write it. Frankly over 5000 posts I have already talked about almost all of this, but people dont put the pieces together, and all they hear is "Hundreds of thousands of dollars" , which later happened... but its good to see it all in one lump so you can assimilate it.

      Not that my story is any more interesting than anyone elses, but I have alot of followers, and some of them dont read all the posts, even more of them do, but again, the pieces are so scattered, and they want to understand my journey, so I dont mind writing it if someone wants to know...all in one bite where it can be assimilated.

      I also want to thank you and bayo and others for being so open about yours too!

      How does this apply to offline and not mind warriors?

      Its the story of how an offliner over came his odds.

      -John
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Ewen,

    Charles is the guy with the boat factory in my story above from New Zealand. No, the past isnt a badge of honor at all. I would FAR prefer to say I have always had the midas touch. lol Im not proud to tell it at all trust me... but Im feeling a need to.

    I also agree that people need solutions for NOW...and I wholeheartedly believe that Telemarketing for offline business is one of them, and have proven it in my own life and the lives of hundreds, or maybe even thousands of others!

    Would love to hear more of your own story by the way. I DO think this is interesting. Many people here have struggles....alot more people come here because they have no idea how to succeed in life, than come here with professional back grounds, they are searching for an answer, they dont come HAVING them... I think that by seeing how someone else who was clueless and didnt have answers found them could be inspiring.

    Some of us just busted right out of the gate coming from solid backgrounds and have it all together and have never NOT been that way, but many more come because they have never had any reference point for how a person like them could see the light of success, and they hope someone can relate.

    Knowing that you have been there can help some trust you and understand that you can relate to where they are, thus, you can "reach" them, and help them better. Not everyone needs that but some do.

    The big excuse in life is "Yeah, thats how it works for YOU, but you dont understand where I'm coming from..."

    BS. Yes I do, I have went from selling my own blood and not even graduating from high school to being a master in an amazing field...I know you can come out of ANYTHING!

    -John Durham
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


      Would love to hear more of your own story by the way.
      Since we are going down memory lane,
      here's a video of the land I use to walk and ride on horseback over before the manager shown in the video took over.

      Not telling horror stories though.

      Best,
      Ewen

      PGG Wrightson Stud Tour 2012 - Tangihau Station Angus Ep. 13 on Vimeo
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Since we are going down memory lane,
        here's a video of the land I use to walk and ride on horseback over before the manager shown in the video took over.

        Not telling horror stories though.

        Best,
        Ewen

        PGG Wrightson Stud Tour 2012 - Tangihau Station Angus Ep. 13 on Vimeo
        Very cool.

        Well alot of it was horrible to go through, but more so than a horror story its the story of someone who stumbled out of the gate and didnt get their footing for awhile. Then they got up and ran like a race horse.

        Will put some more up later....Work to do now.

        Ken, the story moves on...

        -John
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Hey bro, I for one understand where you are coming from. I applaud your tenacity.

    The basic tenant for life, for relationships, for business is ... "shit happens"
    You know some of the tribulations I have went through.

    If little old me can survive and then thrive, so can you ...

    so can anyone.

    I have never met a single person that was considered a success of any nature ...
    that has not gone through a personal hell or two.

    As some say... It takes 10 or so times before it sticks.
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    Selling Ain't for Sissies
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ken,

    Sometimes God works in mysterious ways.

    What if theres a person out there going through the same, reading the Warrior forum with big hopes, and thinking "Yeah, but those people dont know what Im going through, I cant succeed like they can... They have never been where I am..."

    Thats who this helps. Yeah my story has some horrific points lol... believe me, but I was determined and so anyone can be. Trust me. As a result of not just laying down and dying I have also seen some successes that would blow the average persons mind. Very thankful for that, but it didnt come free.

    Thanks bro.

    -John Durham

    Someone let me know if you want the next chapter. If not it will stop here. I wont force feed it to anyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        We all have stories, experiences, talents, successes, failures and achievements. I think sharing them as you guys did has to help someone put their situation into perspective.

        I'd share some of mine but why start a comedy show in a serious thread?

        Glad you gentlemen took the time to talk about your past. I know there are folks reading this thread who can relate and will take the next step to improving their particular lot because of it.

        Have a great day,

        Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Someone let me know if you want the next chapter. If not it will stop here. I wont force feed it to anyone.
      John; Of course we want to know. How someone, who does what we do...get there? What else would we want to read?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post


      Lol, a man of few but powerful words.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Just quietly watching it all over here in the corner.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Pretty good story, John. Continue. I have certainly had royal failures and have learned from them and thank God each day for having survived them.

    I think the more I learn, the more I have no idea what the hell to do! One thing I have learned is the world of business changes at such lightning speed...what works today, may just not work tomorrow and having an open-mind and a propensity to test what may or may not work has equaled success to me. For those that cannot adapt this way, at least from my experience, fail finally!


    I have given plenty of advice and taken advice that worked, but it changes constantly so much so that by the time you tell someone what works, it is out-moded (really realized this seeing inside Google's mouse trap).

    The thing about failure that I am trying to teach my stepgirls and nephew is that sometimes you have to risk failing in order to learn what works. It is a super hard lesson until you are forced into it by circumstances. And don't ever think you are going to be a success forever (as I said above, world is changing too fast).

    I think I am going to sit and write a similar story if not for just my own sanity. I was not exactly born with a silver spoon but my family did well until one day, very young, my entire life changed in one week from comfort and control to a 180 degree reverse of that. It has happened so many times in my life I seem to expect it now. I learned that at 8 years old and am so happy I did because I can trace all my business and life decisions back to that moment. In other words, that failure or tragedy made me grow up whether I wanted to or not.

    A couple lessons I have stood by are nothing matters more than health (as Ewen said, without it, nothing exists). It has taken 43 years of life to truly appreciate that lesson. When you are younger and in a romantic mode, you can certainly think that your family or wife is the most important thing and there is no way you are so selfish to say YOUR health is more important, but until you are minutes from death, you are not going to see it. Without health, all else is gone. I saw my Grandfather that lived to 90 y/o (more than twice my age) use this as his major motivating maxim and to this day can't see how he lasted that long without it. He actually died very suddenly in relatively perfect health.


    Another lesson, as you said, not everyone is going to like you or what you do and you simply cannot help everyone. I have REALLY pissed some people off in the past in business and regret what I did, but at the time had no knowledge to continue that path and remain alive. I try to make up where I can if possible but have not stopped life for the purpose of “dwelling on failure”. It is my one regret promising something I cannot deliver. But I know people cross paths exactly when they need to learn a lesson from each other, whatever that lesson may be and whatever the outcome. THAT my friend was a hard lesson more than not eating or almost being thrown in jail for something that had 100% nothing to do with me (yeah that's a good story that made me once and for all believe in Karma!).


    Anyway, I recall reading a section of a book once about “failing foward” and will look this up as it is 100% applicable.


    Good luck, my friend.
    Signature
    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks John, you and I have talked about the hero's journey some in the past...in a word, thats what its been. You actually helped me define it.

    Please, we would love to hear your story!
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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    As a person who is recovering from a severe rough patch, I'm interested in hearing more. One of the things I learned about myself during the rough patch is that I had no one to depend on but me. I mean, we all know this, but it became a source of strength. I knew if I were going to survive and get out of this mess it would be up to me to solve it, and I did, I came back from the edge. Now I'm starting to climb the mountain again and learn from almost going over the cliff.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    how 'bout the crap that comes along with making money.

    I believe that an alarm sounds off somewhere notifying everyone that you're doing well and suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork needing some kind of emergency loan!
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Seems a common thread here, taking 100% responsibility for their results and
      pulling themselves out of the mess.

      I knew that was the BIG lesson for me.

      I knew if I was going to play the game of business at full tilt,
      then I knew I could not blame anybody else, nor was anybody going
      to do it or help me.

      In a way it was stop being a cry baby and grow up.

      Our egos and self righteous selves want everything cosy and comfortable.

      When things don't turn out the way the spoilt ego wants it kicks up a fuss.

      We gotta tame the silly thing.

      Or go back to your mommy and get her to bring you milk, cookies and a blanket!

      Some people want security over freedom.

      That's fine.

      I chose freedom long ago.

      I understand their choice and it's not for me to poke a stick at their choice and beliefs.

      Just leave me to my choice.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Finally back in a position to be online after a few days visiting people for holidays... Looking forward to continuing this thread... I have alot of haters... I guess like Bob Says, about people coming out of the woodwork looking for loans... Being phenomenal at what you do... and being comfortable with the fact that you are phenomenal at it, can cause people to come out of the wood work and hate you because you are excellent at what you do... Part of success is surviving those kinds of people...and perhaps another part Im learning is to not let people know that YOU know, you are good... because it brings out the utter, black as coal ugliness in some. Thats another lesson of being great in your field. Its not just people wanting loans that come out of the woodwork. Sometimes you have to learn to hide your light for your own good and not let it shine so brightly as to wake up the grumpy people who live in the dark and live FOR the dark.
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  • Profile picture of the author jideofor
    John, you are my hero.

    I have been away from WF due to my insability to raise some money and implement your website design model via cold calling after school and graduation 3 months ago.

    I laid my hands on domaining and was able to make $500 after a $10 investment... I also have about $1500 deal pending and therefore with that, I will start cold calling in 2013. It isnt easy anywhere, especially being a Nigerian. I thank God that I am getting somewhere.

    I read about your "Newbie Read this..." thread when you first created it in 2010 and that inspired me in a no small measure. I am also grateful to other warriors who give as you have also done.

    God bless you all.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Ralph
    Great story, really motivating. Just the kind of story to drive me into success during the new year! Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    I was really good on the phone, but even being the best telemarketer… it still just wasn’t enough to make it. It wasn’t till later when I put those skills to work for ME in businesses of my own.
    Mr Durham, you paint yourself into way too many corners. Even this thread, which is likely damage control for a recent sideshow, contains fantasy peacocking. It's just all so unnecessary.

    Stating that you were the "best telemarketer" (thus one can assume an elite closer) and it still wasn't enough to pay the rent is a good example of how you direct the eyes of scrutiny to look your way.

    The top sales guys are pulling $250k a year on up while working for someone else. They are living in semi-affluent neighborhoods up to gated communities. Down here in the real word that career position is enough. It's more than enough.

    I think you're probably an okay telemarketer, but I also have to wonder if you've seem more success working in telemarketing or working this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      Mr Durham, you paint yourself into way too many corners. Even this thread, which is likely damage control for a recent sideshow, contains fantasy peacocking. It's just all so unnecessary.

      Stating that you were the "best telemarketer" (thus one can assume an elite closer) and it still wasn't enough to pay the rent is a good example of how you direct the eyes of scrutiny to look your way.

      The top sales guys are pulling $250k a year on up while working for someone else. They are living in semi-affluent neighborhoods up to gated communities. Down here in the real word that career position is enough. It's more than enough.

      I think you're probably an okay telemarketer, but I also have to wonder if you've seem more success working in telemarketing or working this forum.
      First of all, an average telemarketer makes about 8-15 dollars per hour... depending on what industry they are in and who they work for. Even the very best closers in 90% of the call centers still make barely enough to pay the rent.

      The fact that I was paid a low salary as an "employee" telemarketer, is no indication that I wasnt an elite closer. So your thought on that is meaningless, everyone knows most telemarketers are underpaid.

      Secondly, even as a manager of telemarketers who can run a team of 100 people and sell 19,000 websites in one year, I was not a millionaire and never claimed to be one. I claimed to be what? A telemarketing manager, who broke records and was devoted and GREAT at his job.

      Did I not?

      Do you know a telemarketing manager that makes over 50k per year? They are HIGHLY rare...and what they are paid is not an indication of their talent level because frankly most good ones are worth more than six figures.

      I made 36k personally as a telemarketing manager who revolutionized a team and sold almost 20,000 websites.

      I never said I made a million dollars selling 19,000 websites as a telemarketing manager. I received a normal telemarketing managers pay...and I lived in a normal house, not a mansion, that a person with an average telemarketers pay would live in.

      The pay was not amazing, however the accomplishment itself was still amazing, and record breaking.

      Here is my point... in the days when I was a telemarketer, and in the days when I was a telemarketing manager... I made a regular telemarketers pay, and a regular telemarketing managers salary.

      I have never claimed any different.

      Now I ask you...how does that indicate that I was not the absolute best in my field?

      Have YOU ever lead a team to sell 20k websites?

      So back to the point:

      How does the fact that I was underpaid for my talent indicate that I wasnt phenomenal at what I did?

      Piece those facts together and tell me how you came to the conclusion that I was not an elite closer just because I had trouble paying rent.

      I know MANY elite closers who make ten bucks per hour just because they dont know they can do better outside of a job.

      Your way of extrapolating does not lead to any valid reason for saying that what I claim is not true, to any person who lives in the real world.

      My evidence is in the fact that to this date there is no more successful teaching in the offline forum (note: I did not say teacher "er") , with more success stories from newbies who say "I made money" than with the teaching I have brought forth.

      If there is one, more power to him, but I havent seen it. Thats not arrogance, just fact. Its not for my glory, but for the glory of the concepts that I present...and the people those concepts have helped.

      You know why that is?

      Because Im the best at what I do. Thats why.

      Argue that. Show me one other teacher in offline that has produced more success for more people...who can say they actually made money from his advice.

      Pardon the seeming arrogance, Im just defending myself on fair ground.

      Your pointing to my income at that time in no way suggests that I wasnt what I said I was.

      My teaching, and more so the effectiveness of it, cannot be argued.

      Seriously, how can you argue with hundreds of testimonies saying they made money....that tells you that what I teach is the real deal.

      The reason I teach it well, is because I have LIVED it...and it comes across with the conviction of one who has lived it, and it delivers the results that prove I know what Im saying, for others.

      Because of people like yourself though, admittedly I may not be able to teach it anymore here... and that is a crime to all of the people who have been inspired and whose lives have been changed by the things you mock...the mockery that contributes nothing to anyones success and helps people in no way. Except for those who sell shiny bullets.

      I dont care about John Durhams ego...my mission is bigger than that, something you probably wouldnt understand...you have to have a heart for PEOPLE to get it.

      No good deed goes unpunished.

      -John Durham

      Ps. Thank you for at least giving me credit that I might be an okay telemarketer...and yes I have experienced much more success with that in recent years than on the WF... However what REALLY counts, if one cares about what really counts, is that what I have taught has set alot of people free...and those who come against only harm the future people who could experience the same breakthroughs through the teaching.

      Call me what you will... I dont serve you. You are not the one who I wish to please.

      Pea cocking... is what YOU call it... thats because thats how you percieve. Im sorry if righteous indignation comes across as cocky in print.

      Try offering people something that can help them...instead of bashing those who you feel get too much credit... Credit is not my aim, its just what comes naturally when you are good at what you do, and people get results from it. Sorry.

      so tell me....How did I paint myself into a corner, as you say? I dont feel cornered at all. Just misconstrued, by people who are seeking scandals, instead of seeking to truly help anyone.

      I have aired everything INCLUDING my personal problems and struggles on this forum... it doesnt take a private investigator to figure me out.

      Still nothing that indicates Im not elite at what I do, and that I cant teach people to make money through learning the skills I have mastered both in hardcore practice and at teaching others both on and/or offline... In fact; the evidence suggests that alot of people learn, grow, and make money from it.

      Argue that, then you will have something.

      You could catch me in a cheap hotel with five hookers smoking a crack pipe, and it wouldnt devalue what Im teaching here, or take away the success stories that are piled up from what I teach, because of the value of the teaching.

      -John
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Argue that. Show me one other teacher in offline that has produced more success for more people...who can say they actually made money from his advice.
        That is an unfair call John, there are many talented and well respected people in offline who do also give freely their advice so that others may profit and I would say where people have made money.

        I wish that the whole telemarketing thing had it's own sub forum so that it did not retract from the main offline section maybe I am wrong on that.

        As for making money and being the best, FFS if you can sell 20K websites in a year you need to stop being the worker and become the owner as you should be rolling in money.

        Maybe that is your next step that you refer to ?

        Cheers and the best to your 2013
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          That is an unfair call John, there are many talented and well respected people in offline who do also give freely their advice so that others may profit and I would say where people have made money.

          I wish that the whole telemarketing thing had it's own sub forum so that it did not retract from the main offline section maybe I am wrong on that.

          As for making money and being the best, FFS if you can sell 20K websites in a year you need to stop being the worker and become the owner as you should be rolling in money.

          Maybe that is your next step that you refer to ?

          Cheers and the best to your 2013
          I dont argue that there are other successful teachers, and because Im going to quit some will surpass the amount of success stories and testimonials I have to my name.

          On another note, the fact that you express the wanting for telemarketing to have its own subforum reflects the attitude of many others, and thats why they are offended. The effectiveness of it has made it a hot topic, but I dont agree that it should be separated because it is a function of offline marketing. The problem people have with it is that is (as you stated) detracts from other forums, and people are attracted to it...and that inhibits other marketers. I cant help that, its really not my fault.

          As far as a telemarketing manager who should be an owner...yes, I agree, but that was one developmental stage and yes my story does go on, and I was able to accomplish more after that...which I will build upon as time permits... I have not told an untruth on the WF, suffice it to say that... my story does get better as you will read on. It may be the last story you hear from me on the WF, and it will be as true as anything else I have ever posted.

          What you just posted here says 3 main things:

          1: Others are offended that this teaching attracts people from other areas - Sorry.
          2: Its offensive to others that I am aware of the fact that I have more testimonials than anyone else- I apologize for that too. Again, its not my fault, and perhaps I should pretend I dont know it.
          3: A telemarketing manager should be able to be an owner- Not so- but in my case, yes you are right, and I did later move on to realize that.

          Most of the problem people have with me is that they are offended that this message has detracted from other messages. You stated that clearly, and you were precise.

          I will solve that problem for them and step back after I finish this thread.

          -John

          Ps. You are scolding me for saying my teaching has produced the most success stories, but you still arent proving I am wrong. The only thing I can apologize for is the fact that my saying it offends people.
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          • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Ps. You are scolding me for saying my teaching has produced the most success stories, but you still arent proving I am wrong. The only thing I can apologize for is that fact that my saying it offends people.
            ? no one is scolding you buddy, just trying to get some balance stop looking at every reply as somebody taking a shot at you because they are not.

            As for proving you wrong it really is also the wrong angle, because nobody cares in a nut shell, it does not offend people, just people get tired of hearing it over and over.

            A successful person does not go around having to spell out how good they are in fact most will play it down.

            A true story my old pop told me when I was a kid.

            "Pop tell me why your a successful man" ( and he was for his neck of the woods ) his reply "Son it is not for me to tell you how successful I am because it means nothing as to what I think about myself" he then went on to say "It is what other people say about me, that is important, It's about what they think that matters thats the gage on how I know if I am out there doing good things" or words to that effect.

            Anyway John I am not rocking your boat or against you so please stop looking at everyone who replies as an arch enemy.
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I dont aergue that there are other successful teachers, and because Im going to quit some will surpass the amount of success stories and testimonials I have to my name.

            On another note, the fact that you express the wanting for telemarketing to have its own subforum reflects the attitude of many others, and thats why they are offended. The effectiveness of it has made it a hot topic, but I dont agree that it should be separated because it is a function of offline marketing. The problem people have with it is that is (as you stated) detracts from other forums, and people are attracted to it...and that inhibits other marketers. I cant help that, its really not my fault.

            As far as a telemarketing manager who should be an owner...yes, I agree, but that was one developmental stage and yes my story does go on, and I was able to accomplish more after that...which I will build upon as time permits... I have not told an untruth on the WF, suffice it to say that... my story does get better as you will read on. It may be the last story you hear from me on the WF, and it will be as true as anything else I have ever posted.

            What you just posted here says 3 main things:

            1: Others are offended that this teaching attracts people from other areas - Sorry.
            2: Its offensive to others that I am aware of the fact that I have more testimonials than anyone else- I apologize for that too. Again, its not my fault, and perhaps I should pretend I dont know it.
            3: A telemarketing manager should be able to be an owner- Not so- but in my case, yes you are right, and I did later move on to realize that.

            Most of the problem people have with me is that they are offended that this message has detracted from other messages. You stated that clearly, and you were precise.

            I will solve that problem for them and step back after I finish this thread.

            -John

            Ps. You are scolding me for saying my teaching has produced the most success stories, but you still arent proving I am wrong. The only thing I can apologize for is that fact that my saying it offends people.
            John, I actually agree with you, your teachings HAVE created a lot of success stories. You didn't invent telemarketing though, just teaching it in a way that makes sense to a lot of people here. When I first read what you said, I thought about it for a minute and you're right.

            I don't think anyone here has produced as many success stories, at least since I have been on this forum. I remember first joining everyone was talking about the telemarketing report, and then the bower method and then something else. Nobody else here has done that.

            I think Bob Ross is the only one somewhat close with the 9X12 thing. I have helped a few... but I simply do not like people as much as many of you do lol.

            That being said... Weren't you going on about Russ quitting the WF? Now you're going to do the same thing? You're a warrior, are you not?

            People might say things, people might hate you, people might trash you, but in the end, does it really matter? You're a man of faith, how many times in the Bible were people ridiculed and treated a certain way only to come out of it much stronger?

            If your posts are filled with truth, and you enjoy helping people as much as it seems, then it is cowardly for you to even threaten quitting from a forum you care about. If you quit, quit because you want to spend more time with family or on your business itself, don't quit because other people want you to. That's stupid.

            Happy New Year man... Be the warrior that you've been proud to be all this time. Put your war paint on and rise above the rubble.
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        • Profile picture of the author digichik
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          I wish that the whole telemarketing thing had it's own sub forum so that it did not retract from the main offline section maybe I am wrong on that.
          Perhaps it's time you fully understand that 'Offline' is nothing more than good old fashion sales, telemarketing/cold calling by telephone, is a large part of that. I think you have become caught up in the vernacular of the WF, that somehow 'Offline' is something special. It is just sales, nothing more.

          Now, once you grasp this, you can begin to understand the value of the information that John Durham has contributed to this forum; once you do that you'll begin to see how his freely sharing information, tips, scripts has helped many people financially, mentally and spiritually.

          Much of the information he shares freely would have cost many of us thousands of dollars to learn and time many didn't have to spare. His information has flattened the learning curve for many, so they could start earning money quickly.

          Additionally, what I appreciate about John Durham is his keep it real posts. He shows us the good, the bad, the ugly and the profitable John Durham. He is no deity, just a man. Most of the time he encourages us to find our better selves. He has helped many people, me included.

          Now maybe you would do yourself some good and go research what SALES is all about. Maybe then you'll be able to contribute more positively to the Offline (Sales) Forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
            Originally Posted by digichik View Post

            Now maybe you would do yourself some good and go research what SALES is all about. Maybe then you'll be able to contribute more positively to the Offline (Sales) Forum.
            Maybe you should pull your head back in and make sure you know what your ranting about before your fire crap out, your reply is very far from reality and offensive.
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            • Profile picture of the author digichik
              Not ranting, but perhaps your problem is lack of comprehension, truly understanding what people are saying. I responded to a direct quote from you. (See quote box).
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              • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                Originally Posted by digichik View Post

                Not ranting, but perhaps your problem is lack of comprehension, truly understanding what people are saying. I responded to a direct quote from you. (See quote box).
                I made a statement that indicated I wished for a seperate forum ( and was open and honest about that ) and I might add it was not made in a negative way but intended as a positive thing to highlight or give the subject a more concentrated exposure.

                And from that you rant a tirade of crap and tell me i need to understand and to learn how to sell rady rady on your soap box of almighty?

                Being the polite person I am I won't say ^&)*&. You have a nice day.
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                • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                  Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

                  I made a statement that indicated I wished for a seperate forum ( and was open and honest about that ) and I might add it was not made in a negative way but intended as a positive thing to highlight or give the subject a more concentrated exposure.

                  And from that you rant a tirade of crap and tell me i need to understand and to learn how to sell rady rady on your soap box of almighty?

                  Being the polite person I am I won't say ^&)*&. You have a nice day.
                  What is your signature supposed to mean? Boob? (•), or is that the eye?
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                  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                    What is your signature supposed to mean? Boob? (•), or is that the eye?
                    lol thanks for the giggle it was a bullet point at one stage when i had some gigs listed, but i got spammed by people here peddling seo stuff and decided to remove my info pretty well to stop the spammers hitting me up as i was tired of it, that was just a carry over and I added the jingle as a bit of fun.

                    It will change soon as I have a new gig to post up but it was fun for a while.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeXtReview
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      I think you're probably an okay telemarketer, but I also have to wonder if you've seem more success working in telemarketing or working this forum.
      Who cares which is true?
      Really?

      Why is it SO important to YOUR ego or life to kick him?

      2013 will only tell which way John goes.
      Truly John this can or cannot be your year!

      Just keep focused on supply quality to your customers from here on in.

      Good 2013 to everyone here.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    I for one hope that is NOT your last post.

    And if it is, i hope you stay in touch

    p.s.

    Time heals all wounds. So does over powering bad with good.
    Signature

    Selling Ain't for Sissies
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    JohnDurham,

    ...Let it be said that we were men who pursued, achieved, and inspired greatness in all areas, and let that spirit infect all of those read these words, or who ever come across one of us in this life!
    If you stop saying and writing the words, how will this continue to come true? You are not speaking to the haters and the doubters. You are speaking to those who need and want to hear what you have to say. So Keep On Saying It.

    You are blessed enough to have figured out some of your calling, don't stifle you own personal growth by giving into negativity.

    Keyword -- Lion
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    John... as I'm drinking on this New Year, while trolling the WF... I want to share a quote with you.

    "It doesn't matter if they love you or hate you... as long as they know you"
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  • Profile picture of the author pmarketing
    Great post, John! I really needed that.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I apologize for a bit of defensiveness, it comes from being under alot of attack recently... Still my reactive responses are a little defensive admittedly, and by acknowledging my successes as a teacher here, it does come across as arrogant, as I have went out of my way to point them out.

    I know I didnt invent telemarketing, and I dont need to proclaim it other than out of defensiveness...however on the Warrior forum I AM the first telemarketing teacher of significance who has brought forth any real significant content on the subject, and it HAS affected alot of people for the positive, and even spawned new avenues for other teachers who would not have even likely been able to share deeply on such a subject without being shot down, had I not taken all the blows before they came into the picture and paved a way, because people HATED the subject of telemarketing before I proved 100 times here that it was the most viable way for a newby to get sales.

    If you dont believe it, look at my earlier posts and see that battles I had to endure to keep this teaching from getting totally squashed by silver bullet sellers in the beginning, and make it a viable subject to talk about in depth enough to really sink in.

    I will leave it at that. I am satisfied with that accomplishment. Now it will be talked about forever, in almost every offline thread, and people will continue to see sales from it regularly.

    This is not ego, as it seems...its just me superfluously stating facts that are admittedly reactive responses derived from recent attacks directed toward me personally. I do apologize for that defensiveness.

    As far as this being my year on the Warrior forum...No, its not going to be, I can tell you that for fact, because I am going to withdraw myself from doing this anymore, due to the way it detracts from other sub forums causes me to be the subject of alot of hate.

    These attacks below the belt, by very evil people who do not know the consequences it could cause, or at least I hope they dont (if so they are even more evil than I can imagine) even extend to my personal life issues and are misconstrued heavily to the point where could affect issues that are way more important and crucial than teaching here... ie; there are high stakes going on with my grandchildren right now, and its simply not worth it to allow myself to be crucified publicly in ways that could jeopardize that, just because other promoters are offended by my attempts to do good work here, my confidence in what I do, and the fact that it attracts attention.

    I do feel the teaching I have left behind will continue to help others, and I do feel it has spawned alot of other great teachers on the subject. Nuff said.

    Though I have said nothing wrong even in these last few posts, they will be also used to trash me... Its just not worth it.

    Some will say Good riddance, and others will say "Wow, how sick that people have nothing better to do with their life than to exploit good teachers and trash them".

    In closing,

    My track record offline validated that I was a good teacher long before the Warrior Forum, and I love the WF, but I dont need it in order to feel confident of that. I was just sharing with it. Thats all.

    -John

    Ps. I am sorry Rus for what I said. I guess pride comes before a fall. To all of those who have been supportive thank you, and thank you digichic for reminding me of the opening lines of the telemarketing report volume three, which I sincerely hope will be true with all of my heart.

    Pps. To my fellow warriors in arms, I say unabashedly that "I love you", and that is genuine and will never change. I also love the forum, and Allen Says and Paul Myers and all the leaders who have been my own inspiration through the years. Thank you.

    I do not quit posting out of weakness , but rather out of love for my family, as you know I love battle, but not at the risk of my case of which some of you are aware.

    May 2013 be your greatest year ever Allen Says, you do a great work here and you have changed my life permanently for the better in 50 different ways.



    -John

    Iam nameless and Ken, you guys know you are in my heart.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      John; If you leave, they won.

      Know that you have made an influence. On some a huge influence.

      About six months ago, I left a forum in my core industry because one...one person was trashing me. But I just couldn't take any more of his bile.

      That was a mistake.

      It would be a mistake for you to leave. Even though I have never met you, I think of you as a mentor and friend. As I know many here do.


      Oh, and one more thing....

      It should have been "Iamnameless, Claude, and Ken, you guys know you are in my heart."

      What am I, chopped liver?
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    John, I hope you are not taking what I said as the reason, What I said about another forum was in a positive way so you further enhance your topic and for that I copped a tirade of crap which was uncalled for.

    Maybe I needed to explain further but to leave because of that is crap, further if it was because of that need not worry as I wont be on here very much as I have a full years worth of work I want to sink my teeth into.

    Like others I will also echo that walking away is not the answer to solve problems and I wish you well as you move forward.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Its all good guys, lets just let it rest and be what it is. Im still here, just not in the form I used to be. Thank you for your encouragement and the kind words. I am forever a Warrior. I was one of the first Warriors, even though it was mostly lurking and admiring, and this is where I come from... I have had my time in the Warrior limelight, and it was good. Now its time to step back and just flow into the crowd again. I wanted one time to be like the Warriors I looked up to, I got that, just like I got a music deal, and just like I got a liquidation deal, and just like I accomplished bringing myself from zero to prosperity...and all those things were great. Now its time to focus on something else, and be thankful to be a part of Warrior history.

    Thank you for being so receptive to what I've offered.

    -John
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    I really don't care so much for the "well if you're so good, then why aren't you a millionaire" type of faulty logic.

    No matter how good you are at telemarketing or sales, you can be replaced by a monkey or two who can be taught to follow a working system. This limits the amount you'll make if you're working for someone. This is why it's crucial for biz owners to systemize everything so that if your top guys leave, you can simply fill the space with a new monkey.

    Also, it allows you to retain control so that your top elite guys never feel that they are irreplaceable. "Don't want to follow instructions? Gtfo because there's lots more who want to take this job and make money."

    A ten dollar an hour telemarketer can be trained to produce almost the same production as the most elite cold caller around, believe it or not. Which is why even managers (like John said) aren't ever going to make big $$.

    Even in sales, where highly systemized selling processes can produce monkeys that close 30% or more... the very top elite salespeople might only be a 40% closer. The real money is made by employing an army of trained callers and closers, using a system that works just by following it to a T. Everyone makes money and everyone can move up that way. The weak get replaced with no sweat off the company's shoulders.

    Best salesman I ever met was Tony D., who I worked with and managed for a few years before I had my own business (and also ended up employing him for a short while). He made hundreds of thousands year after year like clockwork. I don't ever think I saw him with less than $2500 to $5000 in commission checks each week, ever.

    Yet he was indebted to me for thousands, always needing to pay his rent or buy food or pay for his imaginary sick grandchild. He lived in his car for a whole week in front of the office because his landlord threw him out until he paid the rent. He was a total financial mess. He'd blow every dime he got on the horses. He lived in a crappy apartment next to a hells angels clubhouse in a run down neighborhood, drove whatever piece of crap car he could find (last one had duct tape for a window), and he looked like a pile of sh*t.

    Yet he'd sell the pants off you, me, and 99% of everyone else around here no matter WHAT product or service it was for the most part. But by the faulty logic that a lot of you have here, no one would believe for a second that he was making $300k per year in straight commission sales, if he tried to offer advice or insight on here.

    On the other side of the coin, I spoke with a guy last year who was a 30+ year brand consultant for some seriously large corporations. I was at his summer mansion that he visits for like two weeks per year. Here's a guy living in a picturesque country mansion for a couple weeks per year, driving luxury cars, working as a brand marketing consultant to the biggest companies out there, and he was struggling to find ways to sell his New York Sharp Cheddar Cheese that his house staff made to the local community.

    I guess my point is that there's some very talented people who have character issues, financial woes, and plenty of other personal demons that prevent them from reaching the 'look of success' to match their skills.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Actually Bob (Jake), my wife and I were separated one time, during one of my endeavors, after I started building an offline business selling websites, I got obsessed with working and she thought I was flirting with one of my clients...

    Anyway, I grossed over $600,000 within just a few short months... that business only lasted about 9-10 months... then calamity came because of inherent flaws in the foundation of the business (it was selling websites), because I got in too much of a hurry building it, we were selling alot faster than I could keep up, and just didnt think things through enough ahead of time, so I ended up having to close it and handed all of my clients over to another company with an infrastructure that could handle them better...

    During that time I had 6 telemarketers, and a really nice, plush Nashville office... I had even opened another office across town, in a cheaper area...and hired five more for a short time in the end, because I thought more money would solve the issues and more sales, but it just got me into deeper admin trouble. I have always been better at creating sales, and training and recruiting champion teams, than at managing the admin side...

    Here is my point... during 6 of those nine to ten months I lived in a hotel, and slept in my office 50% of the time (we had showers, and a weight room ... it was an upscale shared office space kind of thing...). The last thing on my mind was looking for a glamorous home...I was building a business.

    So, just because someone says "Hey I made over $700,000 in sales in _______ year...", or whatever, and they dont have a big house, doesnt mean what they are saying isnt true.

    I have a few examples similar because I have always been one to get fascinated with an idea and work it till I succeed.... Much like when I decided I wanted to champion an income producing forum from the ground up and did (right here in front of your eyes), and also much like the liquidation thing.

    If people here hadnt seen me build the forum with their own eyes, they would question that too, because somehow success seems amazing to people. If it surprises you, then you werent expecting to win in the first place has always been my thought. Your plans SHOULD succeed. The telemarketing forum was a six fuigure per year forum...but if you knew me, you know I can give away six figures to the poor and not even blink an eye...it doesnt mean I live in a mansion believe it or not. Its just the way I am, not an Angel, its just they way I operate.

    On the Alibaba thing (liquidation loads), I got an idea one day, didnt know how to do it, and I sat down alone and figured it out step by step, and ended doing hundreds of thousands in sales or the next few years... that thing was brokering bulk loads of liquidation merchandise overseas via Alibaba... Didnt mean I was a millionaire, but you might agree that making 50k deals over the internet without even picking up the phone is still pretty cool!

    On another occasion, I took a telemarketing room for a friend of mine from 18k per month to over $260,000 per month within a span of about 6 months.

    Once you get the right idea, and something is on the right track it can explode FAST.

    I am much better at creating success and money than at managing either of them.

    My friend, who I would name, but wont because he would get pestered, later sold that $260k per month company, and it ended up being transformed from a mere model search website, into an MTV show called "Perfect 10".

    None of these things made me rich. But the accomplishments themselves made me rich inside. If I talk about rich experiences, and rich hotels, and meeting famous people, its because in my music days, although I made only 60 to $70,000 per year, everything else I did was paid for by my music company- hotels, even clothing- fancy dining, ashrams, spiritual retreats...all that.

    So I have lived a rich life alot, even though I have never been what one might call rich, as far as having a million dollars actually in my bank account at one time.

    In my days working for the modeling company, I also traveled all over America, and stayed in nice hotels, and met modeling industry execs, and was surrounded by beautiful people.

    That didnt make me a millioniare.

    My best Friend, who is still my best friend today built the largest wallpaper manufacturing plant on the planet earth... he owned two Jags, which he changed out every year for the new models... a big house, had 200 employees, and when I walked into his factory or any of the company functions they had I was treated like royalty in every way.

    So I am familiar with very rich things, even though I myself may not have been rich.

    The stories I have told on the WF are all 100% true, whether I am a millionaire or not. None of the accomplishments I speak of are false, and unless you know someone who has sold thousands of websites, I dont know anyone who has sold more than me...so I am qualified to teach it.

    You get it Bob...

    In the last telemarketing room I managed in 2007 for someone else, my best people made 15 bucks per hour, and many didnt even have cars and rode the bus to work, still they could outsell 90% of the people on this forum I guarantee.

    I cant help what people perceive through their filters. I only tell my experience. I have been very blessed, and though most of my management days were in the 40k range, and my music days in the 60-70k range... I was treated like a king by these companies to very rich things and I never had to pay my own way for anything. Doesnt mean I lived in a mansion, but I spent alot of time in some.

    Also I want to say for one person in particulars benefit...if you think a person has to be a star in order for their band to open up concerts for one...you are just ignorant. Im sorry.

    Some people feel I have raised my name to a pretty high level on the Warrior Forum, which also has not made me rich but has been a great satisfaction...well, in a place with 500,000 members thats pretty exceptional right?

    So why is everything else so hard to believe?

    -John
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  • Profile picture of the author pmarketing
    I totally agree with you , John.
    I am reading your posts and learning from you alot. Every dollar I make using your selling techniques is a dollar made by you. Thank you!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by pmarketing View Post

      I totally agree with you , John.
      I am reading your posts and learning from you alot. Every dollar I make using your selling techniques is a dollar made by you. Thank you!
      Along those lines, I have people running all over the place saying "John Durham is lying and saying his own team sold 19,000 websites in a year"... When in fact the hundreds of people who bought the Bower report know that I never made such a claim, and that I ran a team of 100 telemarketers, who I referred to in the report as my team, as the GM, under no uncertain terms... Its not uncommon for a GM to refer to his team as "my team", although in my case I backed it up by making it clear that I did not own the company.

      In that role I created systems and sales processes for the company which facilitated the sales, aside from training, managing, motivating, and recruiting the telemarketers...for John Bowers company".

      Specifically COM 1 (the call centers name), which at the time was located on Nolensville road in Nashville Tn, and represented a website called "bizonthe.net" which later sold to "Prodigy" as a matter of public knowledge with over 80,000 offline clients under their belt, for over 800 million dollars.

      I havent been unclear about this, and there was not even an IMPLICATION that I owned the company, much less a lie.

      This is why I feel the need to state these things, because of this thing "look John Durham Lied"....

      There is no lie, never was, and there was never even a hint of one, and hundreds of people who read the report know that.

      Some even went so far as to look up Com1, and bizonthe.net, and the prodigy sale to prove it, and prove my words, which were confirmed.

      I was the leader of the sales team who accomplished that, the trainer, the creator of sales scripts and processes... and when the law changed to where they couldnt charge peoples phone bills and the company's sales halted as a result, because the telemarketers failed to make the jump to closing credit cards..., I actually rewrote the closing scripts, divided the team up into telemarketers and closers, by taking low performing cold callers ansd turning them into "processors"...creating a "processing" department... (T,O,System) that got sales back to moving again at a regular pace, and basically , YES, saved the call center with those moves.

      As far as my personal sales...

      Just as the above is true, and has never been lied about, I will also say, just as truly, that I myself personally have sold hundreds of websites, aside from the ones sold by the teams I have lead, as both an entrepreneur and a telemarketer in a booth.

      If I lied about my team selling 19k websites in a year, or lead anyone to believe I owned the company, then hundreds of people who purchased the Bower report must be just "seeing things".

      Am I qualified to speak on how to sell offline services? Highly!

      -John
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  • Profile picture of the author iamchrisgreen
    John ... thank you for your honesty.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by iamchrisgreen View Post

      John ... thank you for your honesty.
      Thank you Chris, if you read 2 posts above, maybe you can confirm what Im saying in it. I believe you read the bower report. Good to see you btw.

      What Im defending is that some say Im lying about things that one could clearly read my posts on WF, any day of the week, and see that I have been honest about; working 24/7 like an Obessesed, crazed, and possibly even POsessed person, to "sleuth" things that, anyone who wants to, could easily read in my own posts.

      I always present a clear separation as to when I was running my own company, and when I was managing someone elses.

      One could easily take things out of context and make it look otherwise, but if you keep it in context, and look at the body of what Im doing here, the closest thing you will find to a lie is a casual remembrance of dates or such... Hell Im 43 years old, I dont remember the exact time of day something happened 15 years ago.

      Gimme a break, still it can be colored to look like a horrible atrocious lie though, if taken out of its context. Some specialize in doing just that, and make an art of it, not to mention a "living".

      I have never been anything but honest about my experiences here...and one would have to work aweful hard making a presentation against me to color it that way. When I say "context"...look at the body of my work, if you wish, and you will see its all there. Right here on the WF.

      Even the tough experiences with DHS... arent shocking to the people in off topic. Not only have I shared with them openly, and comprehensively, but they have supported me through the whole process as good friends.

      This stuff is no news to anyone who follows my posts, but it is made to look like some big newsflash when someone takes 10 posts out of five thousand and pieces them together extrapolating them , using obscurantism and conjecture, to make them look like something else.

      You will notice the snippets arent generally linked to the actual post they are taken from, because in context they wont look the same, or serve the ugly purpose... that is done intentionally.

      Again, it honestly doesnt take a sleuth. I have most of the stuff people "investigate" posted here over time in an honest and open way... Again; even the "shocking" personal battles which I have shared with my off topic friends openly before anyone else did. My off topic friends know that.

      I may not always be grammatically correct, but surely you can see that Im not stupid. Also, surely you can see that , for whatever its worth, I am a man who knows how to train salespeople and keep them motivated.

      If you are one who seeks telemarketing knowledge and motivation, surely you can get some from my posts, which have been posted for that very purpose.

      On another note:

      I have mentioned 50 different times on this forum, without any reason to feel ashamed amongst friends, that when I was in my twenties I did alot of partying in the music business, sometimes with drugs... Even put up a pic of myself being wasted after a show... I havent ever felt the need to be disingenuous with my friends here.

      My OT friends also know that, it isnt news to them. However I can promise you I have never been to prison as people are claiming through conjecture, as fact. I dont think its unusual for a person to do those things when they are younger... so I dont see the big deal. It sure does LOOK like a big deal when you spin it right though.

      This stuff is only horrific if its made to look like a shocking secret...fact is there was never any secret, its all been talked about openly on the forum here. Who cares what happened with a guy 20 years ago? Who cares if a guy in his mid twenties did some drugs?

      Is it really that shocking honestly?

      Whats shocking is the length people will go to in order to expose someone elses nakedness for sick pleasure, with no regard for the damage they do and no understanding of what they are really doing- for publicity and to get people opted into a list, and simultaneously claiming they do it for charity, and for the good of others.

      Truth is though...I have already talked about all these things all over the forum, and never for a moment felt a need to hide them. I feel it inspires people to see that some of their mentors have seen troubles in their life.

      Although I do now feel a need to defend against the way snippets of my genuine openess are being used against me, out of context, to color up stories. Yeah, you feel a little violated.

      To my adversary,

      "Look, JD is posting insanely, he's going crazy..."

      No Im just posting... and sharing like I always do. Thank me, you are riding my coat tails, and everyone knows it. Im the biggest story your career will ever have, and you wont be able to follow it up after this, and everyone knows THAT too. String it out as long as you can , and opt in as many people as possible, because you wont have anywhere to go after this.

      There is NOTHING sincere or good about your intentions; that , and your deceitfulness is even becoming common knowledge to your own audience.

      You even openly expose them for exposing others, in good faith, against your own stated promise of protecting their anonymity while soliciting them to help you...

      Wisdom:

      "Be careful not to travel with men, and cast your lot with men who delight in seeking to shed innocent blood, because invariably they will turn on you, and your own blood will eventually be what they seek".

      If you see a man who feeds on every bit of trash around him, and you see that NO ONE and No THING is sacred or off limits to him...then be careful not to be around when he gets hungry and runs out of trash. You may just start looking like a fried chicken leg, (alleged) friend or foe... doesnt matter. When someone shows you what they are, right in your face, believe them, and dont be dumb enough to think you arent fair game yourself if it ever serves their obsessed purpose.

      -John
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  • Profile picture of the author pmarketing
    John, the only people who are saying "John Durham is lying .." are the ones who never did anything in their own life. That is pure jealously. It is much easier for them to call you a liar than to admit themselves being a lazy loser.
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    • Profile picture of the author tingram112
      Hey John, You're awesome man. I've been going through your 5.0 Pitch report and using it to call people who need websites. It's helped me so much create a great script that rocks and teaches what a lot of marketers don't teach you which is fundamental sales skills.

      I've bought a lot of gadgets and gizmos but the most single valuable system I ever learned was your system of creating killer scripts and then being disciplined about making those calls.

      It's kind of silly when people who aren't in the trenches criticize others instead of getting to work and helping others. If "Success in Business" were a theme park we'd have the biggest baddest rollercoaster! Even Jay Abraham has talked about "deals that have died a thousand deaths" and having a really rough start in the beginning.

      Thanks again! Your training has really helped me learn those finer details of personal selling that I really needed. Here's to even greater success in 2013!

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Tom, appreciate that. All I do is teach what I learned in a booth. I use to have quotas... I used to have a boss over my head saying "Hit the quota or clock out"... I HAD to hit the quota, and I even learned to BEAT it... many millions of telemarketers hit the quota daily.

    What we teach here is no a scam, its just classic sales principles. I dont see how that is bad, its the same thing they teach daily in telemarketing rooms all over America' the same principles and techniques that build multimillion dollar companies.

    Im simply teaching people they can use the same concepts in their home offices to get some sales. Thats all. No scam, no unworkable systems. Im teaching what I learned in a booth myself, and I managed the way I was taught by other great managers.

    Here is the truth:

    If you do it for yourself, then you make more money than you would doing it for a boss. Thats all I relay.

    -John
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      s.

      Im simply teaching people they can use the same concepts in their home offices to get some sales. Thats all. No scam, no unworkable systems. Im teaching what I learned in a booth myself, and I managed the way I was taught by other great managers.
      -John
      No ... you are not. You are teaching "soft" being nice, allowing leeway.

      Management generally is NOT as nice to people as you are.

      Management is NOT as forgiving.

      Management says. F.U. make me money or go away, no excuses.

      I have been there I get it.

      You are more then a teacher. You are a motivator.

      Which in my eyes is better.

      The shit that is being thrown around right now, even if it is " or was " 100% true.

      who cares ... F' it .... you are a motivator. Like tony and others....
      Signature

      Selling Ain't for Sissies
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Ken... I try.

    You are right, if people think Im cocky, then they havent worked in a real world call center yet ie:

    Telemarketer: "The leads suck, this isnt working"

    Manager: "are you saying you saying you cant fill the job description? If not clock out I have six apps in front of me, and if so then quit whining and dial more...you might get 6 sales like Bob over here".

    Believe it or not, that attitude produces success. People only whine when they think its an option. Otherwise they hit the quota.
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    • Attachment 16123


      we live in a world of technology, but sales must be guarded by men with phones.

      Who’s gonna do it?

      A content writer, an engineer,
      a techie in fear of his own PC Shadow… that won’t leave his basement?


      JD has greater exposure then you can possibly fathom.
      You weep for the “Internet holy grail” and “riches with a click of the mouse”, and curse the (tele)marketers; you may have that luxury.

      You may have the luxury of not knowing what JD knows :
      That the change in Traditional, Offline marketing, while tragic, probably saves many a small business and warrior/entrepreneur ….. and…..
      that his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, is productive and helps others.

      You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at your high tech, geek (virtual)parties you want JD on that wall, you need him on that wall.

      He uses words and phrases like sales, self-improvement, tele-marketing, fastest way to get sales with little investment, selling yourself, closing, persistence, a #’s game, handling objections, keep dialing, believe you can do it, don't take it personally....

      …. using them as the backbone to help warriors trying to start up, make sales happen, do better, and to defend something.

      You use them as a punchline.

      He has neither the time nor the inclination, to explain to people who rise and sleep under the blanket of the very technologies (how is telemarketing different from mobile marketing – it’s a phone, it’s doing marketing) he leverages and then questions the manner in which he provides it.

      I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way.

      Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a phone and see if you can stand your ground.

      Either way, I don't give a damn what you think.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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    • Profile picture of the author Bewley
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I get these every week. Even got another one the other day from a guy saying he made a sale from the Alibaba report! Thats cool! Kind of different from the telemarketing stuff...

      I dont generally post "email" or PM testimonials (which these arent BTW), unless a person expresses thats what its for. I also dont ask people if I can post their PMs... that doesnt seem cool to me. Never solicit public praise, if it comes it comes, and never exploit peoples private messages. To me it seems predatory and overly ambitious to even ask. If they want something expressed publicly they will put it on a thread, however, as you can imagine, people PM success stories alot too, and this is just a FRACTION of the ones posted on the forum here.

      I would imagine if I out right asked people to testify I would get more testimonials, but I dont, not on my sales pages that I can remember, and not in my follow up emails... If they do offer one, then they just do. I already know it works.

      No bragging here, just thankful that it helps people.

      -John

      Here is a free copy of the report BTW if anyone wants one: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...rting-now.html

      Ps.

      While we are on it, I also N-E-V-E-R say anything like "Dont forget to hit the thanks button" (Taboo!) or ""Dont forget to thank me" , it's just bad form in my opinion. If people want to express appreciation, they will, IMO it's not cool to ask for it.
      Many people get hammered for having a dodgy sig, or a sig that could be deemed to be beneficial to the poster, as a consequence of the posts & the topics discussed in a thread.

      This guy seems to be breaking all the rules - it's almost akin to blatant self-promotion or a mini pre-sell, the likes of which only belong in the War Room or in a WSO. I've seen people get banned/suspended for much less.

      Is this one rule for one, & another for the rest of us?
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

        Many people get hammered for having a dodgy sig, or a sig that could be deemed to be beneficial to the poster, as a consequence of the posts & the topics discussed in a thread.

        This guy seems to be breaking all the rules - it's almost akin to blatant self-promotion or a mini pre-sell, the likes of which only belong in the War Room or in a WSO. I've seen people get banned/suspended for much less.

        Is this one rule for one, & another for the rest of us?
        The mods do as they see fit according to the variables they understand, its called "fairness" and making a "judgement call". Something which you dont see in alot of other forums. In this world there are laws and there are also judges. If laws by themselves could determine everything just by the written word, without considering the variable, then there would be no need for Judges.

        There are rules here, and there are mods here who understand the rules, and they also try to consider where a person is coming from and determine intent.

        Over 5000 something posts, you would think that I myself might understand some things about that as well, that you may not, and also you might think, with such a large body of work, that I wouldnt be dumb enough to blatantly do something to ruin it.

        Again, Im not stupid, and neither are they.

        Perhaps you dont understand all the variables to be able to draw such a conclusion. As far as the link in my previous post... It leads to a free report that is RARE in the fact that it doesnt require an optin, and there isnt a single affiliate link in it. I say RARE because its one of the few reports on the forum that REALLY comes free with no strings attached, and is given with a true helpful, free intent. There isnt a single thing in the report that leads you anywhere but to the FREE knowledge in it. At very least, none that benefit me through affiliate commissions or lead to any of my sites...only resources that I have no affiliation with, and do not benefit from.

        Thats why there is a whole thread on it that has not been deleted in a year.

        The rules apply to everyone, and some do get deleted when they post a free report, because its clear there is a selfish intent. With this one there clearly isnt.

        The post I made above which you only partially quoted, contained 20 testimonials from people on the forum saying they made money from my reports. The purpose was not to sell anything but to defend myself against another person who said no one makes money from my reports, and was HORRIBLY wrong.

        It wasnt to sell anything and only linked to a free report where others could get the same knowledge for FREE, but I see clearly why certain people would want to complain about that post being there. Its all good.

        On another note, Im not bothered by a deleted post, because unlike those who complain about it, I have had TONS of posts deleted over my time here...its all part of the way it works, and its okay. If I shouldnt be here, they would boot me out like anyone else.

        -John
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        • Profile picture of the author Bewley
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Again, Im not stupid, and neither are they.
          No, they are not, are they. Looks like they made (using all the variables) a considered judgment call.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

            No, they are not, are they. Looks like they made (using all the variables) a considered judgment call.
            And Im fine with that and wont call them unfair. I guarantee they still dont think any less of me, neither do I of them.Whats your point?

            It's clear that you really didnt want that post being seen, and were offended by it, and gained some sort of satisfaction... It got deleted. I still dont say the Warrior forum is unfair or complain... It doesnt bother me in the slightest.

            On the other hand, you got it deleted as you wished, and you are still complaining.
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

            No, they are not, are they. Looks like they made (using all the variables) a considered judgment call.
            He's not linking to a WSO, or something that makes him money in his sig... it is a free report shared with everybody. What's the big deal? No opt in, no affiliate offer, no upsell, just free information.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

              He's not linking to a WSO, or something that makes him money in his sig... it is a free report shared with everybody. What's the big deal? No opt in, no affiliate offer, no upsell, just free information.
              It was a small victory for a small person. Im over it...hope they got their kicks.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    Its an amazing post. I strangely find such posts very very inspiring. A lot of people think that reading success stories of others will inspire and motivate them. However, in most cases, those posts make the people feel impatient or inferior in some way.

    On the other hand, reading posts which reveal people struggling and failing many times, have a strange effect. They make you feel stronger and increase your own determination and will power. Thanks for the awesome story.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author srodoks
    Thnks for sharing john
    great contribution
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Some people ask why most of my house block is filled with food plants
    (sweet potato, bananas, various fruit trees, yam, paw paw, multiple kinds
    of spinach and greens, mango, chickens, guinea pigs etc etc).

    My first thought when someone asks me that question is "man you've never
    been poor."

    If times get tough at least I don't have to buy food.

    And no I haven't eaten guinea pig yet but when they're munching
    away on the grass in my back yard I often think to myself "Live it
    up fellas...if it gets bad enough you're going to be delicious."


    When time gets tough sometimes all you can do is all you can do
    for a while.

    But try to be objective.

    Look for the obvious solutions to your problems that you might be
    missing.

    And know that if you're taking action that will make things better
    then better days are coming.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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