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My First Big Opportunity

by PaulintheSticks
39 replies
Last week I had a phone meeting with the owner of a pretty successful local web development co. I'm considering partnering with just for outsourcing my services and possibly selling for them

During the phone conversation I was feeling like a fish out of water because the owner was telling me about all his projects and everything his company was doing and most of it was way over my head and had my head spinning.

After the conversation, I thought - this guy is way out of my league. What was I thinking telling him I'm a business consultant? I started feeling kind of depressed about the whole thing because the main thing I want to do is help small business owners improve their business...ya know be a consultant. And by that I don't mean selling SEO or facebook pages, I mean sitting down and strategizing and helping businesses to grow and be more profitable.

Apparently he likes me and told me to stop by sometime just to meet in person and talk. I really didn't want to because I didn't want to make a fool of myself but I was going to be in town and figured worst case scenario I would just ask questions, let him do the talking and not put my foot in my mouth.

So we met Wednesday and had a long meeting and mainly talked about what he was doing. It was obvious he was impressed even though I really didn't say that much so after the meeting he gave me a tour of his facility and hired me to do some copywriting.

That night I was reviewing everything he was doing and came up with the fundamentals of what seems to me to be a no-brainer strategic plan that could boost his sales, profits and gross margins by probably at least 25% in short order. How did I do it? The book named How to Get Everything You Can Out of All You've Got by Jay Abraham.

During my review, it was like everything that Jay talked about really crystallized for me and I realized this guy was really good at building sites, making deals and all the technical and creative stuff but was missing a fundamental business strategy and had no clue about positioning, competitive analysis, referral programs, upselling, etc. I couldn't believe how much easy money he's leaving on the table.

So I just sent him a text asking him if he's interested in boosting sales, conversions and gross margins by at least 25% and told him I was working on a strategic plan that I'm sure he would want to talk over. And the coolest thing is, the text did not seem like I was pitching him whatsoever. I have a lot of confidence that I can deliver the goods.

Now I just need to figure out how to get as much value for my services as possible. I know I've built a good amount of credibility with him already but I wonder how he'll react if I tell him the strategic plan is going to cost $5000?

Since he charges $3000 for a simple website thats little more than a web brochure, maybe my pricing is too low. I guess when I pitch him, I'll give him a few ideas that would easily be worth a few thousand alone and then go from there. I guess I really need to work on a formal pitch and presentation. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts and insights.
#big #opportunity
  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Nice going Paul!

    For me, what works best is this: During your meeting with him when you lay it all out, start at square one with a legal pad. On one page lay out the first aspect of your plan.

    Here is the critical part, don't just tell him about it. Actually let him build the plan with you right there in the meeting. This means all of the questions you will be asking him after he hires you, you ask him now during the pitch. Jump right in and start working with him as if you were already hired.

    Then, when you complete that first stage, instead of flipping to a new page you tear that page out and leave it on the table - making sure to rotate the pages to face him. It's even better if you guys can be on the same general side of the table "working together" but this can be hard because most meetings are set up across from each other. Now go to stage two and do the same thing.

    Before you know it, it's been an hour, you have five pages of your planning that is specific to his business right in front of him and he can really SEE and is already invested in the plan.

    For pricing, you aren't too high at all. In fact, I would probably ask for a $3,000 retainer and $600/mo +expenses (depending on how you will be working, I usually meet once or twice a month and do the rest on the phone) over the next six months while implementing the full plan.

    This price is really dependent on the type of work. If, using his numbers, you could possibly add 100k to his bottom line over the next two years, then a $10k investment is not a hard sell. I would be sure to only use numbers you are comfortable with because any uncertainty will mess up your closing.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Thanks Dan.

      The problem is that this plan is not hard to understand or implement and one of the key strategies is to add low cost value (and of course communicate that value) and raise prices since his main competition is at a much higher price point. My concern would be that after I lay out the plan, he says he's not interested and decides to implement the plan himself! I don't want to give away the farm. Obviously I could be general about it and show him how the plan will be devised and talk to him about competitive analysis and positioning without being specific. Otherwise there's nothing stopping him from taking my ideas and running.

      In terms of pricing the plan, its really interesting how the format has a huge impact on the perceived value. Jay Abraham's book could be worth millions to many companies. Could you sell it for more than $50? Of course not. Its a book. But applied to a formal strategic business plan printed in color in a binder, its worth 100+ times that amount. Interesting how that works isn't it?

      Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

      Nice going Paul!

      For me, what works best is this: During your meeting with him when you lay it all out, start at square one with a legal pad. On one page lay out the first aspect of your plan.

      Here is the critical part, don't just tell him about it. Actually let him build the plan with you right there in the meeting. This means all of the questions you will be asking him after he hires you, you ask him now during the pitch. Jump right in and start working with him as if you were already hired.

      Then, when you complete that first stage, instead of flipping to a new page you tear that page out and leave it on the table - making sure to rotate the pages to face him. It's even better if you guys can be on the same general side of the table "working together" but this can be hard because most meetings are set up across from each other. Now go to stage two and do the same thing.

      Before you know it, it's been an hour, you have five pages of your planning that is specific to his business right in front of him and he can really SEE and is already invested in the plan.

      For pricing, you aren't too high at all. In fact, I would probably ask for a $3,000 retainer and $600/mo +expenses (depending on how you will be working, I usually meet once or twice a month and do the rest on the phone) over the next six months while implementing the full plan.

      This price is really dependent on the type of work. If, using his numbers, you could possibly add 100k to his bottom line over the next two years, then a $10k investment is not a hard sell. I would be sure to only use numbers you are comfortable with because any uncertainty will mess up your closing.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    PS Love the legal pad idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    I wouldn't worry too much about giving away your plan. Just take your notebook with you Plus even if you had a plan that guaranteed $1billion in new revenue, 99 out of 100 wouldn't take action to implement it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Congratulations, Paul. Keep us posted.
    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

      even if you had a plan that guaranteed $1billion in new revenue, 99 out of 100 wouldn't take action to implement it.
      I was just talking to a business owner friend that feels the same way. I guess I'm not nearly as cynical and am thinking more like maybe 90 out of 100. The trick is finding that small percentage who are open-minded and goal oriented. Obviously that's why its so important to qualify people quickly before investing much time.

      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Congratulations, Paul. Keep us posted.
      Dan
      Thanks although I'll feel a lot more celebratory after I get a check and watch this guy's business take off.
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      • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        I was just talking to a business owner friend that feels the same way. I guess I'm not nearly as cynical and am thinking more like maybe 90 out of 100. The trick is finding that small percentage who are open-minded and goal oriented. Obviously that's why its so important to qualify people quickly before investing much time.
        I meant this as addressing any hesitancy to walk him through your plan. He'll end up partnering with you or not taking action implementing your plan himself w/out you. Good luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

          I meant this as addressing any hesitancy to walk him through your plan. He'll end up partnering with you or not taking action implementing your plan himself w/out you. Good luck!
          Thanks and yea, I understood you. I just don't think the complacency is as bad as my friend and you think.

          One of my friends is a creative genius and swears he came up with the idea for the M&M's candy characters and pitched it to Mars Candy (don't know the details). They thanked him for the idea and not to long afterwards the M&M's characters showed up in their commercials.

          I used to own a health food store and sometimes people would come in and pick my brain, then run over to Walmart and buy their vitamins. So I see it as the same principle except instead of saving a vitamin buyer $5, it could save a business owner thousands just by handing most of it over to a support person to implement. Maybe I'm wrong though.

          My friend thinks I'm wasting my time as he tried to do something similar with his property mgmt co. and he said prospects always thought his ideas and plan were great but wouldn't part with the money. Obviously that doesn't really mean much though. I really only have my time to lose so I'm not that concerned.
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          • Profile picture of the author taranisman
            Good luck, Paul. I have been doing some cold-calling to get clients and I know how you feel. Sometimes I wonder if when I get them signed up, will I actually be able to do the work? I know that I will, but it's sure nice when you get the first few out of the way and build some confidence.
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            • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
              Originally Posted by taranisman View Post

              Good luck, Paul. I have been doing some cold-calling to get clients and I know how you feel. Sometimes I wonder if when I get them signed up, will I actually be able to do the work? I know that I will, but it's sure nice when you get the first few out of the way and build some confidence.
              Thanks. The key for me has just been taking action. I really haven't spent much time trying to sell anything. Just been putting myself out there, talking to people and focusing on helping them instead of making money.

              Good luck to you too.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        I was just talking to a business owner friend that feels the same way. I guess I'm not nearly as cynical and am thinking more like maybe 90 out of 100. The trick is finding that small percentage who are open-minded and goal oriented. Obviously that's why its so important to qualify people quickly before investing much time.



        Thanks although I'll feel a lot more celebratory after I get a check and watch this guy's business take off.
        It's about taking the steps.
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        • Profile picture of the author taranisman
          What's really hard to find are business owners that haven't been burned by a Rep management or SEO guy promising them the moon and of course not delivering. I've run into that a few times where they said they paid someone for that already and it didn't do much. That's why I'm staying away from SEO for a while. At least with ORM, they can see actually results and profit increases.
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  • Profile picture of the author soothsayerpg
    Since you are stuck and luckily you had vision a good conversion boost plan to fill up the gap you are lacking (Also, its a good diversity for you to make him focus on that) and it'll give you more time to prepare to at least some background to what he is knowledgeable on. Time is the only enemy you have for this and with your wits i know you can pull this all out
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Paul,

    I would approach it this way........

    You can make a lot more money for him...... Right?

    I would go in and pitch results....... this makes you stand out.... instantly....

    Charge him nothing upfront.......

    Split the "new" revenue........

    Or.....

    You could pitch him results.... and say....

    Usually, I charge $3,000 to setup my system. I'm so confident in my ability to make more money for you.... I'll need nothing upfront..... All I ask is the first $3,000 comes back to me to offset my setup costs... Then, we can split the "new" revenue.....
    The tricky part with this is.......

    You would need a well thought out contract...... I would be sure to have your Attorney include a section where the client is expressly forbidden from using your "sales strategy" outside your agreed business venture....

    As with all contracts, it would probably be difficult to actually get financial compensation if he violates it... At least, it will put it in the back of his mind he could be sued.... This is usually deterrent enough.

    All The Best,

    Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

    Legal Disclaimer: I am not a Lawyer.... But, I have played one on TV.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by RichBeck;7687018
      You could pitch him results.... and say....

      The tricky part with this is.......

      You would need a well thought out contract...... I would be sure to have your Attorney include a section where the client is expressly forbidden from using your "sales strategy" outside your agreed business venture....

      As with all contracts, it would probably be difficult to actually get financial compensation if he violates it... At least, it will put it in the back of his mind he [I

      could be sued[/I].... This is usually deterrent enough.
      Thanks Rich. Those are some good ideas to consider but a contract forbidding him to use my sales strategy isn't realistic. That would be like an author saying, you can read my book, but you're not allowed to apply any of the strategies. I mean you can't forbid him to follow up with prospects or to communicate value can you?

      Also, this is not like running a ppc campaign where its pretty much cut and dry what the roi is. Its a business plan. There is way too much that's out of my control, to guarantee increases in profits or revenue. If there is an economic downturn or if his partner quits or if he doesn't implement the strategies/tactics or he gets in an accident or a million other possibilities why he might not make it happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        Thanks Rich. Those are some good ideas to consider but a contract forbidding him to use my sales strategy isn't realistic. That would be like an author saying, you can read my book, but you're not allowed to apply any of the strategies. I mean you can't forbid him to follow up with prospects or to communicate value can you?

        Also, this is not like running a ppc campaign where its pretty much cut and dry what the roi is. Its a business plan. There is way too much that's out of my control, to guarantee increases in profits or revenue. If there is an economic downturn or if his partner quits or if he doesn't implement the strategies/tactics or he gets in an accident or a million other possibilities why he might not make it happen.
        Paul,

        That is true..... It would be nearly impossible to forbid him from using your strategy...........

        But, what I was looking at in that case is attempting to keep him from directly copying or using your complete sales process and funnel.... and cutting you off.....

        Getting paid based on monthly revenue is definitely tricky... It is a lot easier sale for business owners to pay you based on results....

        Every Tom, Dick and Harry "promises" they can help business owners make more money.... That has become a tough sell...

        Even if you can actually increase their revenue by $100,000 per year, many business owners would be reluctant to pay you a one time fee of $10,000....

        I'm not saying they are "wise" in how they run their businesses... But, that is the reality...

        Take Care,

        Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Paul,
          Getting paid based on monthly revenue is definitely tricky... It is a lot easier sale for business owners to pay you based on results....
          Every Tom, Dick and Harry "promises" they can help business owners make more money.... That has become a tough sell...
          Even if you can actually increase their revenue by $100,000 per year, many business owners would be reluctant to pay you a one time fee of $10,000....
          Really good points. Thanks Rich. Maybe I'd be better off just trying to get him to hire me as a consultant....for $250/hour

          But I could always pitch it and see what happens. Never hurts to try, right?
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Getting paid based on monthly revenue is definitely tricky... It is a lot easier sale for business owners to pay you based on results....
          Rich, Just wondering if you can clarify that statement? Other than monthly what results would you be paid for? Net profit?

          Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

            Rich, Just wondering if you can clarify that statement? Other than monthly what results would you be paid for? Net profit?

            Thanks.
            Paul,

            I would want to be paid a percentage of the increase in gross revenue. This percentage would vary greatly depending upon the type of business.

            All The Best,

            Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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            • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
              Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

              Paul,

              I would want to be paid a percentage of the increase in gross revenue. This percentage would vary greatly depending upon the type of business.

              All The Best,

              Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
              I could see this working much better on a digital project affiliation than a brick & mortar operation with offline bookkeeping.

              As I mentioned earlier, what makes you think offline business owners are going to show you their books? And even if they did, how do you know they are real, when they have every incentive to hold out on you?

              If your efforts are worthwhile to them, they'll keep paying you for results - as long as they make the calculation that they need you to keep it up. It is your challenge to make sure they see the value without knowing exactly how you are doing it or at least without wanting to replicate all of your efforts in house.
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              • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
                Originally Posted by rocket2uranus View Post

                I could see this working much better on a digital project affiliation than a brick & mortar operation with offline bookkeeping.

                As I mentioned earlier, what makes you think offline business owners are going to show you their books? And even if they did, how do you know they are real, when they have every incentive to hold out on you?

                If your efforts are worthwhile to them, they'll keep paying you for results - as long as they make the calculation that they need you to keep it up. It is your challenge to make sure they see the value without knowing exactly how you are doing it or at least without wanting to replicate all of your efforts in house.
                I'm going to have to agree with you on this but as I mentioned this is a strategic sales & marketing plan that in large part is not difficult to implement. There is no way to implement the plan without the owner knowing exactly what I'm doing. And if the plan is laid out there is nothing stopping someone from running with it without me.

                That's why I'm thinking the plan should be revealed and implemented in stages with a small up front fee to get it started and then options once results are achieved.
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                • Profile picture of the author DABK
                  Would selling the plan separate from everything else be a solution?

                  Marketing plan $x.00
                  Implementing the plan $x.00

                  or, if they'd rather,
                  teaching their staff how to implement for $x.00

                  Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

                  I'm going to have to agree with you on this but as I mentioned this is a strategic sales & marketing plan that in large part is not difficult to implement. There is no way to implement the plan without the owner knowing exactly what I'm doing. And if the plan is laid out there is nothing stopping someone from running with it without me.

                  That's why I'm thinking the plan should be revealed and implemented in stages with a small up front fee to get it started and then options once results are achieved.
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                  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Would selling the plan separate from everything else be a solution?

                    Marketing plan .00
                    Implementing the plan .00

                    or, if they'd rather,
                    teaching their staff how to implement for .00
                    DABK,

                    Definitely! I have seen that as a solution....

                    The trick is you need to sell them on what results they can expect.... without telling them "the how".....

                    For the marketing plan, it would be tough sell for even $1,000.... They are buying something blindly....

                    Once you tell them exactly what it is, they don't need you... They can simply say they are not interested... Then, turn around and implement it themselves.....

                    All The Best,

                    Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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              • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
                Originally Posted by rocket2uranus View Post

                I could see this working much better on a digital project affiliation than a brick & mortar operation with offline bookkeeping.

                As I mentioned earlier, what makes you think offline business owners are going to show you their books? And even if they did, how do you know they are real, when they have every incentive to hold out on you?

                If your efforts are worthwhile to them, they'll keep paying you for results - as long as they make the calculation that they need you to keep it up. It is your challenge to make sure they see the value without knowing exactly how you are doing it or at least without wanting to replicate all of your efforts in house.
                rocket2uranus,

                I would have no desire "to see their books"... That is inconsequential.....

                You do not see "their books." You have records kept on the JV.... It would be setup contractually to handle the details.....

                Being paid for performance like this is nothing new.... Sales organizations have being doing this for many decades..... This is not something "revolutionary" that sprang from IM......

                Most small business owners have been approached by dozens of SEO, Social Media and other so called "experts".... All "promising" results... If they only open up their checkbook for several thousand dollars a month....

                Many that have taken that "leap of faith"... failed to break even... Some made nothing.....

                You have to be very good to overcome these negative experiences, overcome the "new" skeptics and get them to pay your full rate straight away.....

                You really need to talk them into having faith you will actually make them more money than the thousands they will pay you.... each and every month.... Good luck with that...

                Which is easier to sell?

                1. I think I can make money for you. Pay me thousands up front each month... Have faith you will make this back... and more...

                2. I know I can make you thousands more per month... You pay me nothing up front... You only pay me a portion when I make you money...

                The second offers risk reversal.... This will convert at a much higher rate than the first....

                All The Best,

                Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author seby233
    Hello Guys,
    Im sorry but I don't know how to post a new topic.

    I have a question.

    It's ok to put the same subtitles as tags? its this duplicate content?
    How long business is the static websites with 5-10 articles?

    I want to make a magazine blog and post each 2-3 days, in past I had 5 niche static blogs with about 10 articles on each and with adsense as type of monetize and now earning are droped
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum

      Originally Posted by seby233 View Post

      Hello Guys,
      Im sorry but I don't know how to post a new topic.

      I have a question.

      It's ok to put the same subtitles as tags? its this duplicate content?
      How long business is the static websites with 5-10 articles?

      I want to make a magazine blog and post each 2-3 days, in past I had 5 niche static blogs with about 10 articles on each and with adsense as type of monetize and now earning are droped
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7691601].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Paul,

    Don't make this too complicated. And speaking as a longtime business owner, you should forget about the idea that he would agree to any plan which makes him open up his books to you. That is none of your concern, nor should it be.

    While I don't love the idea of working for results only in a consulting situation, I can see where it is an appealing competitive strategy. I have an alternative for you to consider...

    You could set up stages (milestones) to the plan, at natural breaking points. First payment up front, to get the ball rolling. You can make it nominal (like $500) if you feel you need to, though that doesn't seem to be the case here. After that, you only get paid upon reaching one of the agreed upon milestones, at which point your bill is due.

    That protects him from you flaking out on him. And it protects you if you structure the milestones correctly. Make sure you are holding back enough detail about how you do what you do - that is proprietary after all, right? That is what you do, and not everyone out there can do it like you can.

    I hope this is helpful. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author winz
    Congrats Paul
    Good story
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I disagree with you Rocket....

    I get paid a fee for Step 1
    The next couple of steps are based on contingincey.
    I have never had a problem with them "opening" their books.
    Its all about tracking. You need to know what was brought in. Simple as that.

    They don't have every incentive to hold out on me.
    I did one thing, they made money.
    I have several more things I can do.
    Why would you stop paying me, or short me, knowing we were only getting started?
    This has never happended to me.
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    - Neale Donald Wilson -
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Rich,

    I get risk reversal, and I am all for it. Notice, I proposed one of my own above.

    The problem is that the OP is not talking about a JV, he is talking about a vendor-client relationship.

    In a JV, generally speaking, you have two vested partners, both of whom are equally entitled to accounting where their interests converge.

    In a vendor-client relationship, you have no such equity. You have a salesperson and a customer, and the two are more adversarial by nature. The customer wants the best deal possible, and the salesperson wants the biggest paycheck possible.

    In this scenario, most customers are not going to share specific data on how much money is being made. Maybe a rough estimation can be had by tracking conversions, but in the offline world that is an imperfect process. There will be exceptions to the rule, as there always are. but I would not build a business model around them.

    In the end, the customer will only keep his wallet open as long as the salesperson can keep delivering the value. That is the important concept. Expecting your paycheck to based on actual sales that you have no right to see is a recipe for eventual disintegration.

    If that is really what OP wants, he would be better off becoming a commissioned sales rep.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by rocket2uranus View Post

      Rich,

      I get risk reversal, and I am all for it. Notice, I proposed one of my own above.

      The problem is that the OP is not talking about a JV, he is talking about a vendor-client relationship.

      In a JV, generally speaking, you have two vested partners, both of whom are equally entitled to accounting where their interests converge.

      In a vendor-client relationship, you have no such equity. You have a salesperson and a customer, and the two are more adversarial by nature. The customer wants the best deal possible, and the salesperson wants the biggest paycheck possible.

      In this scenario, most customers are not going to share specific data on how much money is being made. Maybe a rough estimation can be had by tracking conversions, but in the offline world that is an imperfect process. There will be exceptions to the rule, as there always are. but I would not build a business model around them.

      In the end, the customer will only keep his wallet open as long as the salesperson can keep delivering the value. That is the important concept. Expecting your paycheck to based on actual sales that you have no right to see is a recipe for eventual disintegration.

      If that is really what OP wants, he would be better off becoming a commissioned sales rep.
      rocket2uranus,

      You got it.... I would not want a vendor-client relationship....

      If customers don't know how much money they make, I suggest they close their business.... They shouldn't own one...

      The customer keeping his wallet open is not a problem at all... Anyone with basic sales skills can keep that ball rolling...

      The huge problem is getting the client to open his wallet and pay thousands upfront on blind faith.... and continue to pay...

      As for...

      Expecting your paycheck to based on actual sales that you have no right to see is a recipe for eventual disintegration.
      Now, that is interesting.... You really think a client relationship is more likely to go "bad" if they pay me based on how much money I make them? Wow!

      I know it is more likely to go "bad" using your method.... Because you want them to pay based on "blind faith" each and every month...... The first month you don't bring them "enough" money, they'll be taking their business to one of the other couple dozen people who called in the last week...

      In the model I mentioned, I DO have a right to know exactly what revenue is coming in... because that is contractually stated....

      It is not something that is a surprise... I'm not barging into their Accountant's office and demanding "private" information... We mutually agreed on a business relationship.....

      You see one model as being optimal.... I see another... We can agree to disagree on this...

      Take Care,

      Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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      • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
        Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

        Now, that is interesting.... You really think a client relationship is more likely to go "bad" if they pay me based on how much money I make them? Wow!

        I know it is more likely to go "bad" using your method.... Because you want them to pay based on "blind faith" each and every month...... The first month you don't bring them "enough" money, they'll be taking their business to one of the other couple dozen people who called in the last week...
        Hey Rich,

        I think we are saying essentially the same thing. The JV model is the only way this really makes sense. I never said anything about blind faith.

        I just think it is unlikely that enough B&M businesses are willing to use that JV model to build a business plan around it. It is my feeling that the OP needs alternate plans so he can find the one that fits each situation best.
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        Fifteen Lessons I have learned over 15 years and six businesses (or, My 1000th-Post Manifesto)
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    I was just reading Jay Abraham's Getting Everything You Can book last night and he talked about how he would give seminar prospects actionable information they could implement before signing up that would make them at least as much as the cost of the seminar.

    This was my plan from the get go. Give him enough valuable information at no charge (and maybe even implement it) that would pay for the cost of the plan. Then he'll likely be calling me.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

      I was just reading Jay Abraham's Getting Everything You Can book last night and he talked about how he would give seminar prospects actionable information they could implement before signing up that would make them at least as much as the cost of the seminar.

      This was my plan from the get go. Give him enough valuable information at no charge (and maybe even implement it) that would pay for the cost of the plan. Then he'll likely be calling me.
      Paul,

      I would provide them with actionable information they can implement.....

      But, I would never implement it for them..... That will cost you time and money....

      The providing of "free services" upfront in hopes of later business gets you freebie seekers and cheapskates most of the time.

      There is a very rare occasion where you'll get a client willing to you at a "professional level"...

      Why?

      You are always "training" your clients.....

      If you train them to expect everything at little or no cost, that is what they'll always expect.

      If you simply provide them solid... actionable information and they actually take time to review it, they will see it is something they should do..... BUT, people are lazy... Most will not want to put in the time and effort....

      That is where you come in....You offer to implement it for a fee...

      All The Best,

      Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    Hey guys,

    I've got an idea. In order to qualify my client to make sure he's serious and his intention is not just to take my plan and run with it, I thought I might ask him to deposit $1000 into an escrow account. Then I will start implementing the plan.

    If he's not happy or doesn't feel the plan can easily boost his sales and profits by 25% within one year, he can end the process at any time within the 1st week and withdraw his $1000. Otherwise, at the end of one week, I am able to withdraw the money and we continue the process. I realize there is really no protection for me but at least it gives me faith that he is serious. Any thoughts?

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heart Cardio
    Best of luck to you Paul. Hope that all works out for you and everything associated with this.
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    Atrial Fibrillation - Stroke - Arrhythmia - Heart Attack Information
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    The best advice my early mentor ever gave me was this...

    It's sounds like a great idea to work on the basis of increased
    profits but unless you have absolute and total access and control
    of how those profits are generated and calculated you better get
    all the money you can up front... period... no exceptions. It's fine
    to build in some residual back end money but if you ever receive
    it just do the happy dance and move on because it won't happen
    often.

    HOT TIP OF THE DAY: The people who get the most money up front are the
    people who have the highest level of belief in what they do and how it will benefit
    the client. Their level of belief drives everything they do and say and has the
    greatest influence on the client's decision of all factors involved.

    Believe... ask... receive... that's how it works.

    Footnote: You better be able to deliver.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

      There is way too much that's out of my control, to guarantee increases in profits or revenue. If there is an economic downturn or if his partner quits or if he doesn't implement the strategies/tactics or he gets in an accident or a million other possibilities why he might not make it happen.
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      It's sounds like a great idea to work on the basis of increased
      profits but unless you have absolute and total access and control
      of how those profits are generated and calculated you better get
      all the money you can up front... period... no exceptions.
      I'm with you. What I'm going to do is provide him with the plan to make it happen for a flat fee as DABK suggested. Then he can retain me for the implementation if he wants to.

      HOT TIP OF THE DAY: The people who get the most money up front are the
      people who have the highest level of belief in what they do and how it will benefit
      the client. Their level of belief drives everything they do and say and has the
      greatest influence on the client's decision of all factors involved.
      Believe... ask... receive... that's how it works.
      Footnote: You better be able to deliver.
      Love it! Thanks.

      Some may think it a tough sell but I have the utmost confidence that my plan will pay for itself at least 10X over so I'm going to go for it. All he can say is no.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      The best advice my early mentor ever gave me was this...

      It's sounds like a great idea to work on the basis of increased
      profits but unless you have absolute and total access and control
      of how those profits are generated and calculated you better get
      all the money you can up front... period... no exceptions. It's fine
      to build in some residual back end money but if you ever receive
      it just do the happy dance and move on because it won't happen
      often.
      EXACTLY. This is what I have been trying to communicate, but next to you I sound like a Neanderthal. Thank you for adding some eloquence to the point.

      Real life is different than the movies. And IM is different than B&M. Without control over the process, guess which party gets screwed?
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      Fifteen Lessons I have learned over 15 years and six businesses (or, My 1000th-Post Manifesto)
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