5 Fibs Offline Gurus Tell...

by max5ty 36 replies
1. I use to make a lot of money...right now I'm down on my luck...but I'm expecting a grand comeback.

Think about it. If they were making a lot of money at one time, what happened now that they can't still keep working their plan?

People have problems in their life but their "grand marketing plan" should still work.

2. Cold calling via phone works. Yes it does but you'll have to sift through loads of calls to get the slightest headway.

Most business owners won't talk to you when you "cold call" them. They're hammered on a daily basis by every newbie that just learned about cold calling. Save your money on that course.

Face to face selling works the best.

3. This is a real money maker. Well, if it was a real money maker, how do they have the time to put a whole course together about it...and then take the time to sell it to you? Oh, and by the way...in addition to my course I have a company that can handle your other needs. LOL...

4. I've been successful, now I'm gonna tell you how to do it...look for my latest course coming out. How do these "mega stars" have so much time to spend on a forum? Heck, I'm retired and still don't have hours to sit around and chat all day.

5. It's easy to make money offline. BS, it's not. Of course anyone selling you a load of BS and asking you to send them money will tell you it's easy...it's not.

I've spent almost 30 years in marketing/advertising and I can tell you first hand that you'll have to work your rear off...and most of the crap you hear from the "use to be somethings", or the "gonna be somethings", are only after your money.

Let's keep things real here folks.

Here's the plan...

1. Don't be all things to all people. Specialize in something.

2. Don't waste a lot of time putting your plan together. You can sit around for months trying to work out a system, then find out it's flawed after talking to your first potential client.

3. Fail quickly. This has been said before. No use spending a lot of time on a plan only to find out you didn't really know what the market wanted.

4. Grow some big ones. It's easy to sit around and dream up a plan...it's harder to put it into action the next morning when the sun comes up and you actually pull into your prospective customer's parking lot.

5. Don't try to be pretty or cute. I've known people who've spent weeks and months trying to get their pitch and material to look perfect...only to meet their first potential client and find out they weren't even in the ball park when it came to knowing what they wanted. Hurry up and find out fast.

6. Set a deadline for your plan. Sit down and set a goal. Be specific:

"I Bob Smith will make $10,000.00 by March 1, 2013. On that day I will go to the local Ford dealership and buy a new F150 truck. It will be black with gray interior. It will have chrome rims. On March 1, 2013 I will move out of my apartment and will move into an apartment at 2000 N. Main St...it has a two car garage. On March 1, 2013 I will quit my job at Speedys Clip Clamor and become a full time offline marketer".

You can be successful.

Read your plan every day. Eventually you'll start brain storming ways to make your plan happen.
#offline marketing #fibs #gurus #offline
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  • Profile picture of the author scottgallagher
    Max5ty,

    Interesting post. I surely am not coming on here thinking I'm in the guru league with people you might be thinking of, however I'd like to share some insight into your 5 things. While I agree with you on #1,3 and 5.....however I'd like to say a couple of things about #2 and #4.

    Cold calling via the phone does work. Calling unqualified leads with little practice, no script and poor execution will diminish results. You know with 30 years experience, face to face is what closes the deal, and I agree, however telephone cold calling still yields the best return...of course we teach our students to make an initial contact introducing hte cold call via email, prepare for each call with data on the prospect's business, research into calling only qualified leads, invitiing them to a no cost webinar / presentation, calling similar membership members (both a part of chamber) and never selling anything, simply requesting 15 minutes of their time face to face. This works, period. Although, I only have 21 years experience in B2B sales.

    Gurus don't have time to sit around all day and chat. While I have an agency that delivers the service, my greatest passion in life is being a servant. I make little in my information sales compared to my agency, but spend significant time in my information business because it's what I love to do with my time, helping others.

    I really appreciate your plan, and well put together!
    Signature
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    I teach entrepreneurs to build a sustainable Internet Marketing Agency with real value. I have many free resources and paid training programs available

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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Lies:

    1. Successful business people can turn unsuccessful so I can't say this is 100% something to watch for. But that said if they are selling you on a plan to make money they should be making money from it. Of course here is the secret.... most gurus make money by selling people products and coaching on how to sell to others. "You" are their customers. of course if they can sell you they may be able to help teach you how to sell others. But for every Zig Ziglar out there I would say their are 100 Rich Jerks who fake it.

    2. I don't think anyone is saying that cold calling it better than face to face. But if you are good at calling you may get a better return on your time since you will talk to a lot more people via phone vs in person. You have to figure out what works best for your product and service. As you move up the marketing ladder your closing percentage increases but the number of people you reach per hour decreases.

    Email: Loads of people but extremely few closes.
    Direct Mail: Takes more times, costs more and reaches less but will convert better.
    Phone: Way less people for your time but will close a nice percentage.
    In person: If you are good you closing percentage here can be 50% plus but you may only speak to 3 or less people per day.

    The higher the value the product or service the more you need to be in person.

    3. The real money maker is selling period. They make money selling to you and you make money selling to whomever. Can their training/product/whatever help you and your business? Maybe or maybe not but if you can't figure that out yourself it doesn't matter. They could hand you gold bars and you would lose money. Sooner or later it comes back to you. If you can't figure out rather a guru has value how on earth will you sell the value in what you offer?

    4. If I could make $200k/yr with one business but make $20 million a year training others to do it which should I do? That is where training comes into play. If they can train you to make a $200k business why shouldn't they do that and turn it into a bigger business? Of course if it is a system the question should walways be why wouldn't they just hire people to run the system vs. selling it. But true training has value. Once again you have to kn ow how to tell the difference between true value training vs. blowing smoke BS. Here's a tip... if it's cheap it is blowing smoke BS. But you have to be careful since smart businesses use loss leaders to gain clients. So maybe that $99 product seems too cheap. But it upsells well into a $500/hr training. If so that is where the money is and why the product is too cheap.

    5. Making money and being "relatively successful" is easy. Though it has more to do with the person vs. the training the get from a guru. You can make good money rather you are an employee or a business owner. And yes it will take hard work but more so smart work. I know many people who work a lot harder than I do. I know many people who work a lot more than I do. You know what 90%+ of them have in common? They make less money than I do. Reaching your potential has more to do with what happens between your left ear and your right ear than anything else. And don't blame your nose cause it isn't his fault.

    Do you need an education to be sucessful? Of course not.
    Do you need money to make money? Not really though you may have to make money with a different idea or business first to afford the one you want to do.
    Do you need a mentor to be successful? No but if you have a good one it sure helps.
    Do you need a "big idea" to make money? Not really. If you look back many of the most popular products out there were not the first. In fact many of them were copies. They just did it better. The iPod was a better MP3 player. The windows OS was a copy of the Mac OS which itself was a copy of the Xerox OS (as was windows to a point). Hell Legos were a copy of another toy and Transformers were merely a rebranding of serveral Japanese toy lines merged into one American one. You don't have to be first but you do need to be "better".

    The Plan:

    1. Agree 100%. Do one thing better than anyone else and people will come to you. Once you have your main things expand upon it. iPod becomes iPhone becomes iPad becomes iTV becomes iWatch(?).

    2. Plan but don't over plan. People don't understand the difference. You need a good plan but without acting and testing your plan is merely a dream.

    3. People underestimate the value of failure. Failure isn't what keeps you from your potential. Your "relative success" is. Hell even the guy one welfare is successful. he just won't admit he is 100% where he decided to be. Easier to blame others than work to better his life. I grew up on welfare. I ate the government cheese and lived in the projects. By 20 I made more than my mom(single parent) ever did in her life. By 23 I owned my first Corvette. And now I am in the top 15% for personal incomes. Was it hard? Honestly no... but it wasn't easy either. I could have played video games all day but that wouldn't have lead me here. But I will tell you this I still haven't reached my true potential because "relative success" holds me back. Only you personally can decide where you are willing to go and how close to your true potential you are willing to reach. At any point in life you can stop. You will be successful but will you truly be where you want to be and deserve to be?

    4. It doesn't take "balls". In fact most of the guys I know with the biggest "balls" haven't gotten where I have in life. Sometimes fear is a good thing. Afterall I can pull into that parking lot every day if I have the "balls" to. But if I am afraid I will do my best to make sure I close every single one of them I can so I don't have to keep doing it. Overcoming fear is huge. But when your "balls" are too big it just means you don't know when or how to be afraid. I like fear. If this was the DCU I'd be wearing that yellow ring. If you are not afraid you're not pushing yourself hard enough.

    5. Pretty and cute will get you so far. Back that up with sales skills and true knowledge and you will be powerful. You need a good pitch. If you are attractive you will sell more. But if you have no substance inside they will in time see past the pretty and cute. But always polish the surface. (advice I need to take when it comes to cars, I am a bad owner). People judge a book by it's cover but they enjoy it for the pages written within. You must have both.

    6. Goals are huge. And I love the "I will" or even future "I am"/"I have"/"I did" statements. If your goals are realistic you need to own them and expect them to happen. One of my current statements I use is "I own a GTR". In my mind I own this car. It is just a matter of me traveling to the point where I can drive it daily.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Do you need an education to be sucessful? Of course not.
      As it stands, I would argue forever against what you said as education is ESSENTIAL to success in anything. If you had said FORMAL education, I would wholeheartedly agree.

      And most of that education will come from actually doing something as opposed to just study.

      Another saying I like comes from defining experience ... is someone repeating their first week forever, or are they building and learning on past experience.

      Marvin
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

        As it stands, I would argue forever against what you said as education is ESSENTIAL to success in anything. If you had said FORMAL education, I would wholeheartedly agree.

        And most of that education will come from actually doing something as opposed to just study.

        Another saying I like comes from defining experience ... is someone repeating their first week forever, or are they building and learning on past experience.

        Marvin
        Very true education and learning IMO are two very different things. Learning and experience you need. But a formal education is worthless to about 90% of people who get it.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

          Very true education and learning IMO are two very different things. Learning and experience you need. But a formal education is worthless to about 90% of people who get it.
          "Wisdom is the daughter of experience." - Leonardo DaVinci
          Signature

          "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
      Very well put Aaron, especially #4 !!!
      I sell my own training course but I also have several high paying clients. It's not that difficult to do both and I doubt I would ever just sell my course. I like staying on the cutting edge of this industry and think I would lose touch if just sold coaching.



      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Lies:

      1. Successful business people can turn unsuccessful so I can't say this is 100% something to watch for. But that said if they are selling you on a plan to make money they should be making money from it. Of course here is the secret.... most gurus make money by selling people products and coaching on how to sell to others. "You" are their customers. of course if they can sell you they may be able to help teach you how to sell others. But for every Zig Ziglar out there I would say their are 100 Rich Jerks who fake it.

      2. I don't think anyone is saying that cold calling it better than face to face. But if you are good at calling you may get a better return on your time since you will talk to a lot more people via phone vs in person. You have to figure out what works best for your product and service. As you move up the marketing ladder your closing percentage increases but the number of people you reach per hour decreases.

      Email: Loads of people but extremely few closes.
      Direct Mail: Takes more times, costs more and reaches less but will convert better.
      Phone: Way less people for your time but will close a nice percentage.
      In person: If you are good you closing percentage here can be 50% plus but you may only speak to 3 or less people per day.

      The higher the value the product or service the more you need to be in person.

      3. The real money maker is selling period. They make money selling to you and you make money selling to whomever. Can their training/product/whatever help you and your business? Maybe or maybe not but if you can't figure that out yourself it doesn't matter. They could hand you gold bars and you would lose money. Sooner or later it comes back to you. If you can't figure out rather a guru has value how on earth will you sell the value in what you offer?

      4. If I could make $200k/yr with one business but make $20 million a year training others to do it which should I do? That is where training comes into play. If they can train you to make a $200k business why shouldn't they do that and turn it into a bigger business? Of course if it is a system the question should walways be why wouldn't they just hire people to run the system vs. selling it. But true training has value. Once again you have to kn ow how to tell the difference between true value training vs. blowing smoke BS. Here's a tip... if it's cheap it is blowing smoke BS. But you have to be careful since smart businesses use loss leaders to gain clients. So maybe that $99 product seems too cheap. But it upsells well into a $500/hr training. If so that is where the money is and why the product is too cheap.

      5. Making money and being "relatively successful" is easy. Though it has more to do with the person vs. the training the get from a guru. You can make good money rather you are an employee or a business owner. And yes it will take hard work but more so smart work. I know many people who work a lot harder than I do. I know many people who work a lot more than I do. You know what 90%+ of them have in common? They make less money than I do. Reaching your potential has more to do with what happens between your left ear and your right ear than anything else. And don't blame your nose cause it isn't his fault.

      Do you need an education to be sucessful? Of course not.
      Do you need money to make money? Not really though you may have to make money with a different idea or business first to afford the one you want to do.
      Do you need a mentor to be successful? No but if you have a good one it sure helps.
      Do you need a "big idea" to make money? Not really. If you look back many of the most popular products out there were not the first. In fact many of them were copies. They just did it better. The iPod was a better MP3 player. The windows OS was a copy of the Mac OS which itself was a copy of the Xerox OS (as was windows to a point). Hell Legos were a copy of another toy and Transformers were merely a rebranding of serveral Japanese toy lines merged into one American one. You don't have to be first but you do need to be "better".

      The Plan:

      1. Agree 100%. Do one thing better than anyone else and people will come to you. Once you have your main things expand upon it. iPod becomes iPhone becomes iPad becomes iTV becomes iWatch(?).

      2. Plan but don't over plan. People don't understand the difference. You need a good plan but without acting and testing your plan is merely a dream.

      3. People underestimate the value of failure. Failure isn't what keeps you from your potential. Your "relative success" is. Hell even the guy one welfare is successful. he just won't admit he is 100% where he decided to be. Easier to blame others than work to better his life. I grew up on welfare. I ate the government cheese and lived in the projects. By 20 I made more than my mom(single parent) ever did in her life. By 23 I owned my first Corvette. And now I am in the top 15% for personal incomes. Was it hard? Honestly no... but it wasn't easy either. I could have played video games all day but that wouldn't have lead me here. But I will tell you this I still haven't reached my true potential because "relative success" holds me back. Only you personally can decide where you are willing to go and how close to your true potential you are willing to reach. At any point in life you can stop. You will be successful but will you truly be where you want to be and deserve to be?

      4. It doesn't take "balls". In fact most of the guys I know with the biggest "balls" haven't gotten where I have in life. Sometimes fear is a good thing. Afterall I can pull into that parking lot every day if I have the "balls" to. But if I am afraid I will do my best to make sure I close every single one of them I can so I don't have to keep doing it. Overcoming fear is huge. But when your "balls" are too big it just means you don't know when or how to be afraid. I like fear. If this was the DCU I'd be wearing that yellow ring. If you are not afraid you're not pushing yourself hard enough.

      5. Pretty and cute will get you so far. Back that up with sales skills and true knowledge and you will be powerful. You need a good pitch. If you are attractive you will sell more. But if you have no substance inside they will in time see past the pretty and cute. But always polish the surface. (advice I need to take when it comes to cars, I am a bad owner). People judge a book by it's cover but they enjoy it for the pages written within. You must have both.

      6. Goals are huge. And I love the "I will" or even future "I am"/"I have"/"I did" statements. If your goals are realistic you need to own them and expect them to happen. One of my current statements I use is "I own a GTR". In my mind I own this car. It is just a matter of me traveling to the point where I can drive it daily.
      Signature

      Learn to become Digital, Internet and Social Media Marketing Consultant to Business Owners
      Click here to learn more - Internet, Digital and Social Media Marketing Training Course

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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


    3. This is a real money maker. Well, if it was a real money maker, how do they have the time to put a whole course together about it...and then take the time to sell it to you? Oh, and by the way...in addition to my course I have a company that can handle your other needs. LOL...

    4. I've been successful, now I'm gonna tell you how to do it...look for my latest course coming out. How do these "mega stars" have so much time to spend on a forum? Heck, I'm retired and still don't have hours to sit around and chat all day.
    Everything you said, except what I have quoted here is accurate, as far as I know. And because you have shown some smarts, I'm going to give you some insight here.

    3. "Well, if it was a real money maker, how do they have the time to put a whole course together about it". That's actually a question I've asked myself. Here is the answer. Some Gurus genuinely make their money compiling information and selling it. Sometimes by speaking, sometimes online. These are the guys you are talking about.

    But some, me included, are genuinely successful doing what they reach. In fact the first two years of my speaking and selling information, I still made far more from my core business. Now, it's about 50/50.

    Why do I speak? Why do I create DVDs, CDs, and courses? Because I genuinely enjoy talking to small business owners more than I do talking to consumers.

    I just really like selling. And I like selling to people who are like me. Business owners. That's the real reason, at least for me.

    4 How do these "mega stars" have so much time to spend on a forum? Heck, I'm retired and still don't have hours to sit around and chat all day.

    That's a legitimate question. Because I love to teach. I love seeing others learn and succeed nearly as much as I want to succeed myself.

    And, as much as it looks like I'm on here all day...I'm really grabbing 3-5 minute snippets of time while I'm waiting for something to upload, eating lunch (usually hours after it's in front of me), or I post after work. To be honest, the offline forum on the Warrior Forum is the only place I feel like I'm talking to a few people like myself.

    And I have a question for you.Do you ever travel? watch movies? enjoy sports? Why? Where do you find the time? Aren't you a successful business person? Why are you on the forum so much?

    I'm only speaking for myself here. And I appreciate questioning what you see posted. A critical mind is a huge asset.

    But don't you like taking time to help people that could learn from you? So do I. To me, it's a privilege...a reward of success The look in a young person's eye when they finally get something? Man, I'll take that all day long.

    I know how my posts sounds, but I assure you that everything I said is real.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sigh.... :rolleyes: Another one.

    My responses in blue...

    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    1. I use to make a lot of money...right now I'm down on my luck...but I'm expecting a grand comeback.

    Think about it. If they were making a lot of money at one time, what happened now that they can't still keep working their plan?


    So in other words, it's impossible for successful people to fall right?

    Question: Did you have your own marketing company for 30 years, or were you just a worker bee for someone else? Because I can see how a "worker" in someone elses company would miss this understanding, but not anyone who has ever been their own business person.

    There are 100 ways to fall from grace.
    In fact there are fortune 500 companies that would be destitute right this very moment if the government hadnt bailed them out. Multi million dollar businesses go out of business everyday due to mistakes or lack of foresights....HIGHLY successful men.

    Can you argue that?


    No , my question is not rhetorical. I'd really like to hear the answer.

    People have problems in their life but their "grand marketing plan" should still work.

    Again, you lack understanding here, even BASIC understanding.

    2. Cold calling via phone works. Yes it does but you'll have to sift through loads of calls to get the slightest headway.

    Who said it didnt take sifting through alot of calls?

    Can you point us to where some telemarketing guru said that?


    That is a given....you are making a mute point.
    The word "superfluous" comes to mind.

    Most business owners won't talk to you when you "cold call" them. They're hammered on a daily basis by every newbie that just learned about cold calling. Save your money on that course.

    Just like most business owners wont click your ad, or open your direct mail peice, or read your email, and MOST will flick the channel changer on your tv commercial. Whats the big news flash here?

    It's how marketing works. Numbers. Most people say no...Most people dont consider your ads... This is a basic fundamental understanding that marketers have and that "guru's" teach openly, so I dont get your point here or what backing you have for it.

    FACT: More warriors have succeeded, by proof of the testimonials, on this forum with telemarketing than all the other systems COMBINED..., so again, are you just blowing hot air assumptions? Where is your backing? I can whip out 50 testimonials right now and prove you wrong.

    Can you back what you are saying, or are we just blowing off steam?

    In fact; Here, I will give you some examples, and simultaneously "save them money on that course..." (as you suggested).

    Argue with this :


    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...rting-now.html


    Come back from reading that page and still try to make your point here.

    Moving on...


    "Face to face selling works the best".

    In some cases, depending on what you are doing, or trying to accomplish. No one argues that, in fact the above telemarketing report talks about Face to face selling at length...so again, we have a superfluous statement being made...

    3. This is a real money maker. Well, if it was a real money maker, how do they have the time to put a whole course together about it...and then take the time to sell it to you? Oh, and by the way...in addition to my course I have a company that can handle your other needs. LOL...

    You are truly grasping at straws. While I understand that it seems like a logical question, when you put the right SPIN on it, the fact is that just because people teach doesnt mean they don't "do", or more specifically havent "done"... Your chain of logic has alot of broken links in it.

    I myself teach 5 different business models that I used to do but dont do anymore, however I could do them any day like the back of my hand... and with actual testimonial backing I can prove to you that with my experience I have taught many of the very people reading this post to repeat those successes.

    You are making assumptions, probably based on some kind of resentment or imagined slight, because some other warriors critiqued one of your posts the other day.

    There are people right here in this forum that I know of personally who have 100 telemarketers in their call center and still do WSO's regularly.
    There are also people who own offline brick and mortar retail stores that teach here, and have reports available... But again, I can see you are trying to lash out at what you call "guru's" here, so lets move on and see where else this goes.

    4. I've been successful, now I'm gonna tell you how to do it...look for my latest course coming out. How do these "mega stars" have so much time to spend on a forum? Heck, I'm retired and still don't have hours to sit around and chat all day.

    Well if you are retired you can do whatever you want with your time right? It's not a matter of having time or not, its what you choose to do with your time, and alot of retired people have alot to offer and time to do it, and they have had very successful careers... It would be ridiculous to say (as you are) that its unlikely that a person ever had success just because they teach on a forum.

    5. It's easy to make money offline. BS, it's not. Of course anyone selling you a load of BS and asking you to send them money will tell you it's easy...it's not.

    I dont think anyone ever said it was easy, the fact is that 90% of the people out there dont have the same amount of motivation as the 10%. I dont think I have ever heard anyone say that offline is easy, your point here is unfounded, unless you can show us a guru who is saying its easy...?

    Have you read that claim somewhere , or are you just making this up?

    Can you point us to someone saying its easy?

    Point me to one person that says you dont have to sift through alot of numbers cold calling too while you are at it. Nobody said that, in fact we all preach the opposite, that a person has to be willing to "work".

    You made that up.


    I've spent almost 30 years in marketing/advertising and I can tell you first hand that you'll have to work your rear off...and most of the crap you hear from the "use to be somethings", or the "gonna be somethings", are only after your money.

    Well when someone sells a WSO, what do they want to make with their product? Money. Yeah you are right about that. "Houston we have a mental giant here".

    Point?


    Let's keep things real here folks.

    Yes, by all means, lets listen to YOUR seasoned advice now, the "real" guy, who doesnt think people should have time to teach others on forum.

    The one who has 30 years of successful experience, and is retired, but who doesnt think that retired people that give advice on forums could possibly have ever really had any success...
    but yet the real guy himself has almost 700 posts on a forum in less than two years.... We're all ears.
    This is just another trash "guru slamming" post. Im betting its aimed at particular people who you feel slighted by... Nothing new that we havent seen a thousand times. Did you get all your resentment out?

    Good.

    Hopefully my posts didnt just make you twice as resentful, but I would love to hear your logical comebacks SPECIFICALLY to the points I made here.

    I will give you an example of just one out of many successful endeavors, and you can "quote" me:

    "I ran a six figure telemarketing forum for over two years that I built from the ground up on a $14.00 investment and grew it to 4,000 members, but now I dont run it. I sold it to a major online software corporation".

    A: Want to argue that?
    B: Seem unbelievable?
    C: Think I dont know how to do it again even though Im NOT currently doing it?
    D: Think that because Im not doing it now, that means I never did it in the first place? :rolleyes:
    E: Think I would not be able to teach anyone else about the subject , or that the advice given would be worthless?

    Those are basically the points that your post implies.. Lots of holes in that logic. I would be interested in hearing your answers to all my questions specifically, but if not, I understand.

    Sorry for the harsh "defense" to your harsh "attack" on Warrior teachers... You jumped into that frying pan, I didnt.

    In truth;

    We see these attacks daily, they are nothing new at all, and we are well equipped and experienced to go toe to toe in these cases. You dont get very far as a teacher at the WF without encountering a few spinners and/or serial slammers.

    These kinds of posts fall into a common "type" category.

    -John

    Ps.

    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    I met Don Lapre on a couple occasions, he had many good ideas, a couple of which were never fully developed. He also had a few ideas that bombed...but who doesn't in business.
    It would be great to see you extend this kind of grace to your Warrior comrades, some of whome have had every bit as much success as a Don Lapre (Who fell from Grace more than once, and who also sold me a report that I made money from).

    It's clear here that you can selectively be graceful toward guru's who sell money making reports, when you "like" them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    OP's level of cynicism is at epic levels. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author seregap
    FACT: More warriors have succeeded, by proof of the testimonials, on this forum with telemarketing than all the other systems COMBINED...,
    great fact. can we see the numbers and research methods please?

    "I ran a six figure telemarketing forum for over two years that I built from the ground up on a $14.00 investment and grew it to 4,000 members, but now I dont run it. I sold it to a major online software corporation".

    A: Want to argue that?
    B: Seem unbelievable?
    yes. any sort of proof to back up six figures would be helpful, if you dont mind

    Can you back what you are saying, or are we just blowing off steam?
    thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by seregap View Post

      great fact. can we see the numbers and research methods please?



      yes. any sort of proof to back up six figures would be helpful, if you dont mind



      thanks.
      I owe you nothing. No explanations whatsoever. Have you paid me 10 grand that I need to jump through hoops and dig up all my credentials for you? No.
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      • Profile picture of the author CaptnJack
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        I owe you nothing. No explanations whatsoever. Have you paid me 10 grand that I need to jump through hoops and dig up all my credentials for you? No.
        Then why the hell did you bring it up in the first place?
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  • Profile picture of the author seregap
    no worries, personal income is personal.

    but how does
    there are 25 people in a row on the page I linked to saying "I made money".
    make
    More warriors have succeeded, by proof of the testimonials, on this forum with telemarketing than all the other systems COMBINED...
    a fact?

    how can you accuse someone of making bold statements by making such yourself not being able to back these up?

    You are making assumptions, probably based on some kind of resentment or imagined slight, because some other warriors critiqued one of your posts the other day.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by seregap View Post

      no worries, personal income is personal.

      but how does

      make

      a fact?

      how can you accuse someone of making bold statements by making such yourself not being able to back these up?
      I think its clear that if you read through the threads here you will see 2 out of three of the ones talking about sales are saying they made it from telemarketing. That is a guesstimate... but most people can make the jump and surmise that pretty easily just by reading around.

      As far as accusing someone of making bold statements....I can back mine up, I just dont feel like doing the work of gathering all the evidence for a poster I dont even know. And the question was directed at max5ty, who hasnt answered my own questions or even returned to the thread.

      By questioning what is painfully obvious about the fact that most of the sales in here DO come from telemarketing, its clear that you are trying to get a rise and everyone reading knows that. If you can read around this forum and you cant see that 2/3rds of the offline sales reports here come from telemarketing, then you are blind. I will leave it at that, anyone who questions that can read around and find out for themselves with no help from me.

      Now for this other rocket scientist below:

      Originally Posted by flnz400 View Post

      Lol, this is pretty funny, and accurate.

      If you watch closely, the people that push back the hardest, have sold, do sell, or will be selling... something here. You're ******* with the warrior ecosystem by bringing this up.
      Firstly,

      Im pushing back because, several Warriors have alerted me, and I know for myself that the OP was attacking one "guru" in particular, for lack of a better word.

      Secondly,

      You dont have to be brilliant to look down the first page of this subforum and read a thread that says in plain english that Im in the middle of writing a report right now for release.

      So, it's not like you are predicting this because you are such a great sleuth. Its all over the front page.

      But this is how you types do... you see somebody post about someones birthday on a thread, and then you go back to your little group and say "Im so brilliant , I did all this research and discovered this persons birthday". lol

      You read that they are releasing something, and you go back saying "i can watch peoples behavior and predict when they are going to release something...Just watch how right I am".

      There is nothing to be known about myself that hasnt been said in plain light right here on this forum, and if I released a report anytime, you wouldnt have predicted because of your unique insight, its because I SAID IT in a thread.

      Pat yourself on the back though...you are a genius.
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  • Profile picture of the author flnz400
    Lol, this is pretty funny, and accurate.

    If you watch closely, the people that push back the hardest, have sold, do sell, or will be selling... something here. You're ******* with the warrior ecosystem by bringing this up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by flnz400 View Post

      Lol, this is pretty funny, and accurate.

      If you watch closely, the people that push back the hardest, have sold, do sell, or will be selling... something here. You're ******* with the warrior ecosystem by bringing this up.
      Not to me. Being critical of claims is the backbone of rational thought. But the OP wasn't being critical in that way, he was saying things that simply were wrong. Personally, I don't believe anything until I see proof, even from friends.

      I know this..if someone posts 100 times, and you challenge everything they say..and they never contradict themselves...that person is probably telling the truth.

      On another forum, one in my core industry..for over a year a skeptical member asked me questions...wanted details...and wanted proof of my claims.

      Every few days he would post a long series of questions about how I did my marketing. For almost a year I thought "What a smart young man. He thinks like I do. I'll help him any way I can". A friend (on the forum) called me one day and said "Your wasting your time. All this guy is doing is trying to catch you in a lie".

      It affected me greatly. I honestly thought the guy was asking me for advice to help him in his business. Nope. I'm a grown man...and it depressed me for a couple of days.
      My thought was "What a waste of my time and his. He could have been learning, but he spent his time trying to pull aside the Wizard Of Oz's curtain"

      And all I had been doing for a year was revealing everything behind the curtain.

      I have a very strong BS detector, when it comes to marketing and sales. Better than most here. And I'm saying his in front of John, and the rest of you.

      John gets defensive far more than I think he needs to. Personally, I don't know why he bothers. And he has flaws. Just like all of us.

      But I've read hundreds and hundreds of his posts. I have a highly educated eye for sales and marketing experience. His experience is true. His wanting to help is real. Of that I am certain. You simply cannot post that many times without revealing yourself as a fake if you are. And he isn't.

      And John; If you keep picking at it...it will never heal.
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  • Profile picture of the author seregap
    By questioning what is painfully obvious about the fact that most of the sales in here DO come from telemarketing, its clear that you are trying to get a rise and everyone reading knows that. If you can read around this forum and you cant see that 2/3rds of the offline sales reports here come from telemarketing, then you are blind. I will leave it at that, anyone who questions that can read around and find out for themselves with no help from me.
    i guess you should have referred to "offline sales" subforum instead of "this forum" in your op then. it's not as "painfully obvious" as you feel otherwise, im afraid. would have saved you a lot of typing.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by seregap View Post

      i guess you should have referred to "offline sales" subforum instead of "this forum" in your op then. it's not as "painfully obvious" as you feel otherwise, im afraid. would have saved you a lot of typing.
      Isnt the Offline Sales subforum, where all the Offline Salespeople talk, about their Offline sales? Inst this thread about "offline" guru's?

      Do trolls really have that much trouble extrapolating?

      You are grasping at straws and trying to get a rise. Im done.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Isnt the Offline Sales subforum, where all the Offline Salespeople talk, about their Offline sales? Inst this thread about "offline" guru's?

        Do trolls really have that much trouble extrapolating?

        You are grasping at straws and trying to get a rise. Im done.
        Where is this offline sales sub-forum? I don't see it. Am I lost?
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  • Profile picture of the author seregap
    You are grasping at straws and trying to get a rise. Im done.
    lol. i dont need to get no rise. sorry, you are being too anal in your analysis of my possible motives. i dont build no reputation here to defend, nor i don't care about trying to destroy or support other's.

    i said what i said. and i meant what i said.
    i landed here browsing the WHOLE warrior forum, i dont leave in offline section, and found it amusing to see someone attacking someone's bold claims by even bolder claims, so i questioned. i genuinely believed you were referring to the warrior forum in general, so you can carry on being as defensive as you like, but it doesnt change the fact that it wasnt clear in you op, and there's forums outside "offline" as well.
    but i agree enough is enough, f it.
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  • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
    @John Durham - I'm on my iPhone so quoting is a PITA but Inlike your point (in blue) you make about even "successful" people falling from graces.

    I'd be remiss if I didn't openly admit that I've failed in SPECTACULAR fashion not once... but TWICE.

    Yup, I screwed up the first time, got back on the horse and did it again.

    Nobody's FAIL PROOF, not even a Guru.

    In fact, the first time I failed I went bankrupt with a "bang" and a friend of mine who is about a decade older than I and also in the information marketing business ( and is very successful) listened to me cry into my beer at a local pub.

    He listened... then said "cangratulations, you've just earned your first "stripe".

    The point? FAILURE is nothing to FEAR or frown at... or judge another person by. It is very much (often times) a part of SUCCESS.

    I'm sure many of us wear the scars of battle.
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    • Profile picture of the author jakesy
      [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    There's a saying where I'm from. The game is to be sold, not told.

    What is college? A 4 year wso. Very expensive.
    Self Help books? 200 page wso.
    The Warrior Forum? A free wso. Cost = your time spent sifting through the BS.

    You always pay for knowledge, with either time or money. Anyone who thinks you don't is a fool.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrjosco
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


    2. Cold calling via phone works. Yes it does but you'll have to sift through loads of calls to get the slightest headway.

    Most business owners won't talk to you when you "cold call" them. They're hammered on a daily basis by every newbie that just learned about cold calling. Save your money on that course.

    Face to face selling works the best.

    .


    Face to face selling MIGHT work the best. What industry are you selling to? If you are selling medical, for example, you aren't going to be getting to see a Dr. 'face to face' by walking in.

    You have to cold call to set appointments. In my industry, we have no choice but to cold call to set appointments.

    We make 100 calls to schedule 5-10 appointments to get 1-3 clients.

    The myth is anytime someone says "xxxx does not work. YYYY is better."

    False. It depends on the the location, the industry and the product you are selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    I think this horse was dead back in Feb...why is it being brought back around?
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
    Durham is probably out scamming some people via another method.

    As for this post by the OP. I love it. Hit the nail on the head. As always you see all the WSO fanatics come running out of the trenches defending themselves. They only make their money by hustling people here into buying WSO / their services, so it makes sense though.

    Face to face selling works the best.
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    "You shouldn't come here and set yourself up as the resident wizard of oz."
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    Durham is a hard guy to get a refund from that's for sure. But cold calling has its merits. Its not the best and only way to get clients
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  • Profile picture of the author samrand
    Just reading this thread for the first time and you could tell that post was
    one subliminal shot at John Durham. I hear people mention John was/is
    a scam but I never bought any of his products.

    All I know was that he brought a lot of value to his posts. I definitely
    miss his contributions around here.

    I really am curious to why he got banned. If anybody knows feel free to
    PM me. In my opinion that's a big loss for this section of the Warrior Forum.

    Other than a few notables like Claude, Bob, Jason Kanigan, iamnamless, pantera,
    Aaron Doud, Ken Michaels , there's nobody who I got more value from than John.

    If he really didn't do the things he talked about in terms of business experience than
    he is one smart and clever imposter (which I don't believe for a second).

    I do hope John did honor any refund requests if that was truly an issue.

    Hey John if you ever read this, thanks for your contribution to this part of the forum.
    I personally received a ton of value. Good luck with future endeavors.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
    As for his experience, it's hard to fake expertise, especially when it's around other experts. So I think he really know his stuff.
    For hypothetical sake. Is it hard to fake expertise around others who are faking it as well?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Andrew H View Post

      For hypothetical sake. Is it hard to fake expertise around others who are faking it as well?

      HA! That is a brilliant question!

      I see something like that every day. Someone telling a story that makes no sense...but the person hearing it doesn't know enough to know that it makes no sense.

      But specifically to Durham's cold calling stuff. Yeah, there are a few experts here that know quite a lot about sales and cold calling.

      His importing stuff? No idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    In all honesty hr knew his stuff imo. Now rather or not he applied his stuff to his own life is a mystery. All I know is my personal experiences. And he got me for a good one. Its situations like that make people skeptical about buying from random gurus.

    It makes us all look bad especially when we are all just trying to make a living.
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    It's hard to generalize in what works and what doesn't.

    Some do very well cold calling, some very well in social media, some in email etc....Do what you believe in and works for you.

    Try various methods, trial and error, keep learning and hone your pitches no matter what you are doing.
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  • To be honest with you, I think you are just venting because of other products that you have bought. I am 19, own a successful six-figure marketing company, and still find time to help people out by putting all of the information together that made me successful into one place for the public.

    Just because you can't see YOURSELF doing something, doesn't mean that there isn't somebody else that is actually motivated and is working ten times harder than you ever thought possible.

    So yes, it can be done... Guru is just a word, and anyone who calls themselves a guru is just trying to stick one to you. Anyone that proves success and their knowledge flows throughout all of their products are the true info product geniuses!
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