5 Fibs Offline Gurus Tell...

Max5ty,

Interesting post. I surely am not coming on here thinking I'm in the guru league with people you might be thinking of, however I'd like to share some insight into your 5 things. While I agree with you on #1,3 and 5.....however I'd like to say a couple of things about #2 and #4.

Cold calling via the phone does work. Calling unqualified leads with little practice, no script and poor execution will diminish results. You know with 30 years experience, face to face is what closes the deal, and I agree, however telephone cold calling still yields the best return...of course we teach our students to make an initial contact introducing hte cold call via email, prepare for each call with data on the prospect's business, research into calling only qualified leads, invitiing them to a no cost webinar / presentation, calling similar membership members (both a part of chamber) and never selling anything, simply requesting 15 minutes of their time face to face. This works, period. Although, I only have 21 years experience in B2B sales.

Gurus don't have time to sit around all day and chat. While I have an agency that delivers the service, my greatest passion in life is being a servant. I make little in my information sales compared to my agency, but spend significant time in my information business because it's what I love to do with my time, helping others.

I really appreciate your plan, and well put together!

Lies:

1. Successful business people can turn unsuccessful so I can't say this is 100% something to watch for. But that said if they are selling you on a plan to make money they should be making money from it. Of course here is the secret.... most gurus make money by selling people products and coaching on how to sell to others. "You" are their customers. of course if they can sell you they may be able to help teach you how to sell others. But for every Zig Ziglar out there I would say their are 100 Rich Jerks who fake it.

2. I don't think anyone is saying that cold calling it better than face to face. But if you are good at calling you may get a better return on your time since you will talk to a lot more people via phone vs in person. You have to figure out what works best for your product and service. As you move up the marketing ladder your closing percentage increases but the number of people you reach per hour decreases.

Email: Loads of people but extremely few closes.
Direct Mail: Takes more times, costs more and reaches less but will convert better.
Phone: Way less people for your time but will close a nice percentage.
In person: If you are good you closing percentage here can be 50% plus but you may only speak to 3 or less people per day.

The higher the value the product or service the more you need to be in person.

3. The real money maker is selling period. They make money selling to you and you make money selling to whomever. Can their training/product/whatever help you and your business? Maybe or maybe not but if you can't figure that out yourself it doesn't matter. They could hand you gold bars and you would lose money. Sooner or later it comes back to you. If you can't figure out rather a guru has value how on earth will you sell the value in what you offer?

4. If I could make $200k/yr with one business but make $20 million a year training others to do it which should I do? That is where training comes into play. If they can train you to make a $200k business why shouldn't they do that and turn it into a bigger business? Of course if it is a system the question should walways be why wouldn't they just hire people to run the system vs. selling it. But true training has value. Once again you have to kn ow how to tell the difference between true value training vs. blowing smoke BS. Here's a tip... if it's cheap it is blowing smoke BS. But you have to be careful since smart businesses use loss leaders to gain clients. So maybe that $99 product seems too cheap. But it upsells well into a $500/hr training. If so that is where the money is and why the product is too cheap.

5. Making money and being "relatively successful" is easy. Though it has more to do with the person vs. the training the get from a guru. You can make good money rather you are an employee or a business owner. And yes it will take hard work but more so smart work. I know many people who work a lot harder than I do. I know many people who work a lot more than I do. You know what 90%+ of them have in common? They make less money than I do. Reaching your potential has more to do with what happens between your left ear and your right ear than anything else. And don't blame your nose cause it isn't his fault.

Do you need an education to be sucessful? Of course not.
Do you need money to make money? Not really though you may have to make money with a different idea or business first to afford the one you want to do.
Do you need a mentor to be successful? No but if you have a good one it sure helps.
Do you need a "big idea" to make money? Not really. If you look back many of the most popular products out there were not the first. In fact many of them were copies. They just did it better. The iPod was a better MP3 player. The windows OS was a copy of the Mac OS which itself was a copy of the Xerox OS (as was windows to a point). Hell Legos were a copy of another toy and Transformers were merely a rebranding of serveral Japanese toy lines merged into one American one. You don't have to be first but you do need to be "better".

The Plan:

1. Agree 100%. Do one thing better than anyone else and people will come to you. Once you have your main things expand upon it. iPod becomes iPhone becomes iPad becomes iTV becomes iWatch(?).

2. Plan but don't over plan. People don't understand the difference. You need a good plan but without acting and testing your plan is merely a dream.

3. People underestimate the value of failure. Failure isn't what keeps you from your potential. Your "relative success" is. Hell even the guy one welfare is successful. he just won't admit he is 100% where he decided to be. Easier to blame others than work to better his life. I grew up on welfare. I ate the government cheese and lived in the projects. By 20 I made more than my mom(single parent) ever did in her life. By 23 I owned my first Corvette. And now I am in the top 15% for personal incomes. Was it hard? Honestly no... but it wasn't easy either. I could have played video games all day but that wouldn't have lead me here. But I will tell you this I still haven't reached my true potential because "relative success" holds me back. Only you personally can decide where you are willing to go and how close to your true potential you are willing to reach. At any point in life you can stop. You will be successful but will you truly be where you want to be and deserve to be?

4. It doesn't take "balls". In fact most of the guys I know with the biggest "balls" haven't gotten where I have in life. Sometimes fear is a good thing. Afterall I can pull into that parking lot every day if I have the "balls" to. But if I am afraid I will do my best to make sure I close every single one of them I can so I don't have to keep doing it. Overcoming fear is huge. But when your "balls" are too big it just means you don't know when or how to be afraid. I like fear. If this was the DCU I'd be wearing that yellow ring. If you are not afraid you're not pushing yourself hard enough.

5. Pretty and cute will get you so far. Back that up with sales skills and true knowledge and you will be powerful. You need a good pitch. If you are attractive you will sell more. But if you have no substance inside they will in time see past the pretty and cute. But always polish the surface. (advice I need to take when it comes to cars, I am a bad owner). People judge a book by it's cover but they enjoy it for the pages written within. You must have both.

6. Goals are huge. And I love the "I will" or even future "I am"/"I have"/"I did" statements. If your goals are realistic you need to own them and expect them to happen. One of my current statements I use is "I own a GTR". In my mind I own this car. It is just a matter of me traveling to the point where I can drive it daily.

Everything you said, except what I have quoted here is accurate, as far as I know. And because you have shown some smarts, I'm going to give you some insight here.

3. "Well, if it was a real money maker, how do they have the time to put a whole course together about it". That's actually a question I've asked myself. Here is the answer. Some Gurus genuinely make their money compiling information and selling it. Sometimes by speaking, sometimes online. These are the guys you are talking about.

But some, me included, are genuinely successful doing what they reach. In fact the first two years of my speaking and selling information, I still made far more from my core business. Now, it's about 50/50.

Why do I speak? Why do I create DVDs, CDs, and courses? Because I genuinely enjoy talking to small business owners more than I do talking to consumers.

I just really like selling. And I like selling to people who are like me. Business owners. That's the real reason, at least for me.

4 How do these "mega stars" have so much time to spend on a forum? Heck, I'm retired and still don't have hours to sit around and chat all day.

That's a legitimate question. Because I love to teach. I love seeing others learn and succeed nearly as much as I want to succeed myself.

And, as much as it looks like I'm on here all day...I'm really grabbing 3-5 minute snippets of time while I'm waiting for something to upload, eating lunch (usually hours after it's in front of me), or I post after work. To be honest, the offline forum on the Warrior Forum is the only place I feel like I'm talking to a few people like myself.

And I have a question for you.Do you ever travel? watch movies? enjoy sports? Why? Where do you find the time? Aren't you a successful business person? Why are you on the forum so much?

I'm only speaking for myself here. And I appreciate questioning what you see posted. A critical mind is a huge asset.

But don't you like taking time to help people that could learn from you? So do I. To me, it's a privilege...a reward of success The look in a young person's eye when they finally get something? Man, I'll take that all day long.

I know how my posts sounds, but I assure you that everything I said is real.

Sigh.... :rolleyes: Another one.

My responses in blue...

This is just another trash "guru slamming" post. Im betting its aimed at particular people who you feel slighted by... Nothing new that we havent seen a thousand times. Did you get all your resentment out?

Good.

Hopefully my posts didnt just make you twice as resentful, but I would love to hear your logical comebacks SPECIFICALLY to the points I made here.

I will give you an example of just one out of many successful endeavors, and you can "quote" me:

"I ran a six figure telemarketing forum for over two years that I built from the ground up on a $14.00 investment and grew it to 4,000 members, but now I dont run it. I sold it to a major online software corporation".

A: Want to argue that?
B: Seem unbelievable?
C: Think I dont know how to do it again even though Im NOT currently doing it?
D: Think that because Im not doing it now, that means I never did it in the first place? :rolleyes:
E: Think I would not be able to teach anyone else about the subject , or that the advice given would be worthless?

Those are basically the points that your post implies.. Lots of holes in that logic. I would be interested in hearing your answers to all my questions specifically, but if not, I understand.

Sorry for the harsh "defense" to your harsh "attack" on Warrior teachers... You jumped into that frying pan, I didnt.

In truth;

We see these attacks daily, they are nothing new at all, and we are well equipped and experienced to go toe to toe in these cases. You dont get very far as a teacher at the WF without encountering a few spinners and/or serial slammers.

These kinds of posts fall into a common "type" category.

-John

Ps.

It would be great to see you extend this kind of grace to your Warrior comrades, some of whome have had every bit as much success as a Don Lapre (Who fell from Grace more than once, and who also sold me a report that I made money from).

It's clear here that you can selectively be graceful toward guru's who sell money making reports, when you "like" them.

OP's level of cynicism is at epic levels. LOL

great fact. can we see the numbers and research methods please?

yes. any sort of proof to back up six figures would be helpful, if you dont mind

thanks.

no worries, personal income is personal.

but how does
make
a fact?

how can you accuse someone of making bold statements by making such yourself not being able to back these up?

Lol, this is pretty funny, and accurate.

If you watch closely, the people that push back the hardest, have sold, do sell, or will be selling... something here. You're ******* with the warrior ecosystem by bringing this up.

i guess you should have referred to "offline sales" subforum instead of "this forum" in your op then. it's not as "painfully obvious" as you feel otherwise, im afraid. would have saved you a lot of typing.

lol. i dont need to get no rise. sorry, you are being too anal in your analysis of my possible motives. i dont build no reputation here to defend, nor i don't care about trying to destroy or support other's.

i said what i said. and i meant what i said.
i landed here browsing the WHOLE warrior forum, i dont leave in offline section, and found it amusing to see someone attacking someone's bold claims by even bolder claims, so i questioned. i genuinely believed you were referring to the warrior forum in general, so you can carry on being as defensive as you like, but it doesnt change the fact that it wasnt clear in you op, and there's forums outside "offline" as well.
but i agree enough is enough, f it.

@John Durham - I'm on my iPhone so quoting is a PITA but Inlike your point (in blue) you make about even "successful" people falling from graces.

I'd be remiss if I didn't openly admit that I've failed in SPECTACULAR fashion not once... but TWICE.

Yup, I screwed up the first time, got back on the horse and did it again.

Nobody's FAIL PROOF, not even a Guru.

In fact, the first time I failed I went bankrupt with a "bang" and a friend of mine who is about a decade older than I and also in the information marketing business ( and is very successful) listened to me cry into my beer at a local pub.

He listened... then said "cangratulations, you've just earned your first "stripe".

The point? FAILURE is nothing to FEAR or frown at... or judge another person by. It is very much (often times) a part of SUCCESS.

I'm sure many of us wear the scars of battle.

There's a saying where I'm from. The game is to be sold, not told.

What is college? A 4 year wso. Very expensive.
Self Help books? 200 page wso.
The Warrior Forum? A free wso. Cost = your time spent sifting through the BS.

You always pay for knowledge, with either time or money. Anyone who thinks you don't is a fool.

Face to face selling MIGHT work the best. What industry are you selling to? If you are selling medical, for example, you aren't going to be getting to see a Dr. 'face to face' by walking in.

You have to cold call to set appointments. In my industry, we have no choice but to cold call to set appointments.

We make 100 calls to schedule 5-10 appointments to get 1-3 clients.

The myth is anytime someone says "xxxx does not work. YYYY is better."

False. It depends on the the location, the industry and the product you are selling.

I think this horse was dead back in Feb...why is it being brought back around?

Durham is probably out scamming some people via another method.

As for this post by the OP. I love it. Hit the nail on the head. As always you see all the WSO fanatics come running out of the trenches defending themselves. They only make their money by hustling people here into buying WSO / their services, so it makes sense though.

Durham is a hard guy to get a refund from that's for sure. But cold calling has its merits. Its not the best and only way to get clients

Just reading this thread for the first time and you could tell that post was
one subliminal shot at John Durham. I hear people mention John was/is
a scam but I never bought any of his products.

All I know was that he brought a lot of value to his posts. I definitely
miss his contributions around here.

I really am curious to why he got banned. If anybody knows feel free to
PM me. In my opinion that's a big loss for this section of the Warrior Forum.

Other than a few notables like Claude, Bob, Jason Kanigan, iamnamless, pantera,
Aaron Doud, Ken Michaels , there's nobody who I got more value from than John.

If he really didn't do the things he talked about in terms of business experience than
he is one smart and clever imposter (which I don't believe for a second).

I do hope John did honor any refund requests if that was truly an issue.

Hey John if you ever read this, thanks for your contribution to this part of the forum.
I personally received a ton of value. Good luck with future endeavors.

Sam

For hypothetical sake. Is it hard to fake expertise around others who are faking it as well?

In all honesty hr knew his stuff imo. Now rather or not he applied his stuff to his own life is a mystery. All I know is my personal experiences. And he got me for a good one. Its situations like that make people skeptical about buying from random gurus.

It makes us all look bad especially when we are all just trying to make a living.

It's hard to generalize in what works and what doesn't.

Some do very well cold calling, some very well in social media, some in email etc....Do what you believe in and works for you.

Try various methods, trial and error, keep learning and hone your pitches no matter what you are doing.

To be honest with you, I think you are just venting because of other products that you have bought. I am 19, own a successful six-figure marketing company, and still find time to help people out by putting all of the information together that made me successful into one place for the public.

Just because you can't see YOURSELF doing something, doesn't mean that there isn't somebody else that is actually motivated and is working ten times harder than you ever thought possible.

So yes, it can be done... Guru is just a word, and anyone who calls themselves a guru is just trying to stick one to you. Anyone that proves success and their knowledge flows throughout all of their products are the true info product geniuses!