how do your seo clients make a roi?

Great thread.

So, I definitely get the great advantages of getting leads on your own and selling them. I just question whether I can do that. I've tried something similar -- a county directory sort of thing. It's done well all in all, but it doesn't really drive many leads. Maybe the information I provide is too generic....

I think it would be much easier to rank for the local business keywords -- with the local business sites. Obviously with google local/maps -- but also I think "real" businesses have many build in advantages with google and those advantages are likely to increase. Real locations, real customers, real reviews, pictures, videos, etc....

Of course the problem is their sites aren't "good".

But, we are uniquely positioned to go in and make them good relatively easily I think. So, it seems to me there is great untapped value in helping clients improve their websites. I think there are some pretty simple things we can do for them that will result in oh, maybe 10 times the number of leads to their sites. I mean just some basic keyword targeting, getting them on google plus local/maps -- shooting a few videos to add to their site, their google plus page, youtube, optimizing their pages for conversions --

It just seems like most of us could spend even a few days working a typical small business website and the work we could do in those 20 or 30 hours would over time result in LOTS of additional income to that business.

And, it seems to me this is a relatively easy value add and nearly risk-free, guaranteed.

So, it seems like it would be a win-win for me to walk into a business, tell them I'll improve their website, bring them more leads and if they don't get those leads, they pay me nothing.

What a great relationship. Everyone's happy.

The hard parts are

1. Valuing the leads.

2. Tracking them.

Here's my ideas on those issues.

Value -- simply use the average google adwords price for their main keyword and multiply it by say 50 -- assuming a conversion rate of 2%.

So, if the adwords click would cost $3, then a lead is worth $150.

And, tell you what Mr. Business owner, I'll deliver it to you (using your own website) for $100. You can't get a lead cheaper anywhere else. AND, to boot, you get your website dramatically improved and this will have many other benefits to you that you don't pay me for -- word of mouth, credibility in your field, maybe speaking enagements ,etc -- all that brings you more clients and you don't pay me anything for all that.

But, we've got to track this stuff.

The forms on the website are easy.

It's the darn phone that's a tough nut to crack.

I like the idea of putting a tracking number in an image so the official business number stays the same and no negative effects on NAP's.

But, even with that, I think you lose tons of calls from especially mobile users who just see the number on the google local/maps listing or on various other directory type websites and just call. And, this is happening more and more.

So, my idea to capture those and avoid any tracking number problems is to have the business owner get a good VOIP service which tracks all incoming calls. VOIP also allows multiple numbers to be inexpensive. So, he asks all employees to have family and friends use a new number he sets up. And, if he runs offline campaigns -- he can use a different number. Over time, we get it so more and more -- all the calls coming into the main business number are leads. And the business owner and I both review that report every month and weed out whichever ones for whatever reason weren't leads.

It's imperfect, but maybe a better option than

1. trying to capture leads without using the client's website and
2. using a tracking number that has NAP issues and misses more and more calls.

But, the main thing about all this is the idea that if we truly add value, we will be rewarded for that in the end. It helps to work with trustworthy business owners of course. But, the key is bring true value to the marketplace, track that value as best you can, and reap the rewards.

Imagine if I could do this with say 50 businesses. Theoretically, in a year, I could "do" 50 businesses (1 a week) -- and hey, if a few screw me over, oh well, i have lots more. And, some would be so happy with what happens that they'd surely hire me to do more, and more, etc.

Or, again in theory, after doing this with 50 businesses I might well have enough passive income coming in from all the leads to all the sites, that I'm set.

So, critiques? I welcome any criticisms of this model as that might save me a lot of trouble...

thanks!

It is usually better to get clients where their average customer value is a larger number because they have more wiggle room to pay for marketing services on client acquisition and retention.

The one things you have to recognize those is JohnLogar is talking about SEO services. Not once did he mention strictly Lead Gen services. With SEO, it is so much easier to get a client to sign up for a contract for a few thousand dollars a month when they are selling services/products for a $50,000-$100,000 per customer.

With Lead Gen, as long as YOUR ROI with a client is manageable, then it does not matter what their customer value is...I have a client that does holistic therapy and her average customer value is $24 dollars and lifetime value is $310. I charge her $15 a lead with a follow up commission of $15 if they return for a second appointment. This might not sound like much money but it costs me around $25 a month in time plus expenses when averaged out over 1 year. In 1 year it costs me $300 to do the work for her and last year I was able to make $1800 in revenue from that contract. Now in the overall scheme of things it does not sound like much but to me it is more money and that is what I am about...

So do not worry too much about the customers average value as long is it works out for you in terms of ROI for your own business.

I just started the lead gen site so I can't tell from experience, but just imagine 1800dentist except most of the traffic is through SEO

OK, so I was talking to my girlfriend that's been in the apartment managing business for a long time: they track their referrals from 3-4 of the largest apartment "directory" sites. Let me re-phrase that: these apartment directory sites give them their own toll-free # as well as a unique email address being set up. They can track the performance of each ad in each directory with 100% accuracy (assuming no technical issues are involved). She said those directory sites work very well for her properties and their ROI justifies the ad cost.