We seem to be going backwards lately

I'd like to think it's because people learn some skills, then they get too busy to post here. So the new crop of members are newbies asking the same questions as the last graduating class.

Those of us who just enjoy coming here and helping out get to help a new crop of marketers!

There's never anything new under the sun. If folks keep asking the same qs its probly cos those asking jst discovered that particular challenge and need answers, there was a time when everyone dishing out great advice was once green horned and confused too

If they seem to be asking the wrong questions (tho I think some are useful qs) that's part of being green

Everytime someone asks those questions a group of new people see the answers given to them and benefit one way or the other from the answers given, so while I can understand some of the frustration there's really nothing wrong with them asking if its done innocently.

As for non-experts giving advice and their opinions, I hate seeing people misled too but its the nature of a forum so you have to accept that since those people can't be muzzled (however much it might feel great to

I haven't posted in eons cos I don't have much time and a lot of the posts ARE to me uninteresting or unhelpful but again that's the nature of forums.

Anyway I think the recent posts about pricing and package deals have been helpful to some folks so they've done their job. For those that unfortunately get misled by some of the headtrash posted as qs and/or advice hopefully they read enough of the good posts to get back on track again asap or immediately.

Learning, making wrong turns, correcting mistakes, making wins, having fails, taking risks, etc etc are all part of business and life. You can't save everyone so don't try too hard or you'll definitely get frustrated

Cheers

Kunle Olomofe

Just had to chime in here and say I love this post Jason! And this is SO true!!!

Especially as newbies starting off, there is SO much self-talk and doubt about why and how you can't charge $XXXX+ or $XX,XXX+ for your services (I know, I was there!) and that's all it is---just your own self-talk that you have the ability to control and change.

Tweak your self-talk and watch your profits & opportunities grow!

I think people ask these questions over and over out of procrastination. *If I don't know what to charge, I can't possibly pick up the phone and sell my services* a.k.a fear. I used to do it, I just didn't ask the same question over and over, I just kept reading the same threads over and over lol

You can easily do a quick search and see what someone says they sell pretty much anything for, so when I see people asking these *technical* questions I just think they're intentionally (maybe subconsciously) trying to get caught up on the technical side of things so they can convince their self that they're not ready to get started. They're too busy getting started, to get started lol

Once you're actually ready to start and I mean have everything ready to go; your pitch, pricing, etc..You almost have to stay away from this forum for a while, because you will come back and see a thread where someone says *Cold calling sucks, try lumpy direct mail* or *direct mail sucks, I just sent 10 emails and got 2 responses* so now you stop doing what you're doing (that you were almost successful at, because if you do anything long enough it will pay off, I promise) and now you're back to reading the forums.

Get the information you need, which really is just a good script (email template, direct mail letter, etc), the service you want to provide, and find someone who needs and wants your service. You will find that once that sale comes in you have the ablity to quickly find a way to fulfill the service that you just sold even if you don't know how to do it yourself.

I *accidentally* sold Google Places to someone when I was first starting out and I didn't know what the hell Google Places was all about. lol He was just so excited about it, that's all he was interested in, he asked me if I could do that for him, I told him yes, but I need to look at his site, see what needs to be done, and I'll call him back and let him know the process. I only did that because I really needed to come back to the forum and figure out how to explain Google Places to someone lol I found what I was looking for and that ended with me finding a GREAT Google Places outsourcer and I was then able to add that to my list of services.

Ok I'm going on and on, the point is, figure out what you can provide, get a price together, and do some prospecting. Reading conflicting threads will just confuse you and this time next year, you'll still be reading and probably still asking the same questions. What worked for someone won't necessarily work for you, what didn't work for someone could work for you. The only way you'll find out is if you go looking for clients.

GREAT great advice.

The other side of this is that many people starting out are so
concerned with trying to get hired...to get paid...or in other
words concerned about themselves...that they're missing 2
VITAL points:

1. You need to focus on the business owner you're talking to
(not yourself) and put his needs first if you want to get him
onside and really serve him.

2. It really doesn't matter so much if you get hired when you're
starting out. Talking to business owners is the key to building
the skills you need.

If you just focus on getting better at that instead of being so
uptight about getting paid it's inevitable you'll get hired.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

P.S. When we first started OfflineBiz.com in 2008 two of the
earliest questions we got were:

What should I charge?
and
Should I work for free?

So the questions aren't really a new development limited
to what's going on lately in the Offline section of the
Warrior Forum.

And there's really nothing wrong with people asking what's
at the top of their mind.

That's the only way they can get the answer they need.

What's important is that they get an answer like the one
you've made in your post.

I mostly agree, but I continue to believe that it is excessively toxic to tell people that they can do anything, that the sky is the limit. To go for 10k contracts right out of the gate with no prior experience. That's just setting up people for failure, and then they say "this stuff isn't working" and they move on to the next thing.

You have to walk before you run.

You have to learn the basics of how selling and building websites works before you go and sign 10k clients.

All this WF nonsense about "just outsource it!!!!11" is just a gimmick. How are you going to do quality control if you outsource everything and don't have even basic knowledge of what you're selling. Not pointing at the original post here, you see this littered all over the warrior forums and WSOs aplenty.

If the point was "stop obsessing about the details and the most basic obstacle" I entirely agree. If it's just another "take action no matter the quality and consequences" then I don't.

You can find someone to pay just about whatever price you set <---- wisdom!!

however, i think it's all about the cycles. i mean rarely do ppl go interview for jobs to be a dentist before they get their dentistry degree. i think it's the same for offline marketers. we want to be prepared. we have to be the expert as our prospects are rarely unversed in seo and other offline marketing services pitches. it would be helpful if people sold more basic courses as you can really feel uncomfortable talking to prospect when you have no foundation of internet marketing.

Totally agree Mr Domino !

There are too many people who can (just about) do one thing and one thing only, and that's often due to a piece of software or WSO that does it for them. so they call themselves mobile marketing consultants and go off offering the one thing they can do.

Where is the longer term strategy for the businesses (their clients I mean not their own business) , what can be bolted on to complement the one thing they are offering, yes they may be able to hoodwink and BS their way into a few clients and then learn and grow from there, but the majority don't/won't and whilst I'm not on a crusade to save the business owners' bacon , there is a strong reason why there are so many business websites out there not working even at 5% capacity for the business owners , there are reasons why there are multiple social media accounts and FB fan pages etc set up that have no or way too little effective engagement on them etc etc and soon they'll be many reasons why businesses have dead end mobile sites with no thought out short and long term strategy in place.
The reason is because the dumbos that sold and delivered them haven't got a Scooby what they're doing, they may be able to talk the hind legs off a donkey or be well good at bullshitting or just have a WSO that shows off 'their' work so well that is sells for them to some, but they often have little idea what to do or where to take their clients businesses next.

Another dead end for the business owners out there and as someone said above, it's these people livelihoods that are being 'played' with and that just is not on.

If you can deliver one solution then deliver it for people who know how to utilise it, eg the experienced people on here who don't have the time or inclination to deliver the individual solutions (coding/design/tecchie etc) but know very well how to set in motion effective strategies for clients, and when you deliver it do it at a price point that reflects you haven't had any customer acquisition costs or customer services follow uip issues ie if you were charging £400 direct to the client, then charge less to the supplier as there is no CAC involved , see many don't even get that basic premise so how can they truly expect to benefit a business owner beyond the basic one thing they offer.
Now this may or may not deter some from taking some steps to try, you know what, I don't care cos I'm not peddling anything, if it stops 200 people winning 3 clients each and messing them up by just delivering one dead end ill considered solution that's not even the solution the business really needs but it's all they've got to offer, then good.
soap box away ;-)

I generally agree with what Jason is saying, but I put more emphasis on getting the knowledge and experience.

My sense is that a lot of the people posting basic questions should get more experience and knowledge before they even try consulting or providing services on their own. Learn best practices for whatever they offer. Learn how to manage outsourcing without getting hoodwinked and have enough resources to cover the cost of the rework if you do get hood winked...

Work for someone else for six months to a year. Study.

Many should also get more business operations, management, and marketing knowledge so they can ask the right questions about the prospect's or customer's business and provide the best solutions for that customer.

Also, many need to get more business knowledge so they can understand the legal/regulatory environment that the prospect is involved with. Such as the fee splitting issue with attorneys and real estate agents...

After all, providing internet marketing services and consulting is very, very important to the success or improvement of the client's business.

If they have the knowledge and experience, then they will have more confidence and the selling part will be easier - or they can outsource the selling part or partner with a sales person if needed.

Dan

I agree with Jason on this one.Make more conversations with prospective clients for more sales. Deidra also mentioned a valid point that "if you do anything long enough it will pay off....."

I had to use this same kind of logic with a friend of mines' brother who started his own digital agency recently. By taking on more clients by offering cheap services to 'begin with' will help them get started.

I tried to explain that 20 SEO clients at £200 per month is a WHOLE lot more hassle and costly than 2 clients at £2,000 per month. What it is that shocks me the most is that the difference in effort to actually obtain a £200 a month client compared to a £2,000 a month client is almost null. A lot of digital agency owners just don't seem to grasp this simple business concept, it puzzles me.

Hi Jason,

That was a free thinking thread that puts a finger on one or more of those unknown or "hidden" problems many face.

Your thread post is a good reminder about what is important in selling your product.

Thanks for the clarity.

LLS

I don't drink alcohol at all, Art.

My point was and is that there are not enough posts lately about communicating with prospects and turning them into clients. And start discussion about it. If you look, you'll see a lot of people agree with me. Maybe you should edit your post.

It DOES matter where you start, because a) it takes the same time and effort to get a lousy client as it does to get a great one, and b) you get typecast according to who you hang around with.

I don't offer $7 WSOs. Just sharing a fact.