Thinking of shipping this EDDM App

18 replies
The Bob Ross postcard method idea is great. It creates a solid way for any business to market effectively at a great price.

I have gotten the "start-up" itch again, and I have been drawing up lo-fi wireframes (designing the user experience) regarding a niche app to make it easy for any business to get in on an EDDM mailer.

The workflow would require the business owner to...
  1. Go online
  2. Select a square
  3. Select copywriting template (or create their own copy)
  4. Upload an image (wildcard feature, may not include in first shipment)
  5. Pay for their portion
  6. Invite other business owners using CloudSponge and Social Media
  7. Check out

I'd just outsource the entire widget - printing, distribution etc. to a third party.

To really make this valuable we we were thinking of including a proprietary affiliate marketing apparatus. That is to say, any reseller should be able to simply provide a unique link to a merchant. When an order is initiated successfully, that agent receives credit instantly via PayPal

The affiliate part of things will be huge. Let's say a business owner in Milwaukee is the first to buy a square. We'd like affiliates to become aware of that so they can blast their lists, or call their clients in that zip code to fill up additional squares.

The challenges we are looking at involve simplicity. One question we are looking at is how many squares to start out with? 6, 9, 10, 12?

Nonetheless, I'll be shipping something out the door - likely under a very limited beta in one city this summer.... Would like you guys' thoughts about features, etc.
#app #eddm #shipping #thinking
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    How much less would you charge if they did it themselves vs you doing it?

    And how would you sell them on this idea it is worth it.

    EDDM is great and one of the best ideas ever posted here but you need to remember the following.

    1. Most people do not know what it is. So you have to explain it to them.
    2. Most people will not see why they would benefit from it. So you have to sell the benefits for them.
    3. Most business owners are not techy. So would they be able to do this?
    4. Most business owners are busy. So why not do it for them.

    It is always great to innovate. But sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel.

    I see how this would benefit you? aka less work.

    But how would it benefit clients?
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Aaron points out very good considerations.

    Here is how I approach it....While I realize that "EDDM" is slowly making its way into business consciousness....I don't pitch any of my direct mail campaigns as "its EDDM"

    I never bring up EDDM. How I mail these post cards off is quite frankly none of my clients business.

    Additionally...if they know I'm using the EDDM process then they know how much I'm paying in postage....and by law, you as a marketer can charge anything you want for postage...I like to build in another penny or two when I can.

    You never want your client to know any aspect of your costs whatsoever.

    From my clients perspective, he sees that he's buying some space on a co-op mailer, and he'll be one of maybe 8 other ads or 20 ads or whatever...depending on the size of card I'm using, and the quantity of that particular run.

    That's all he needs to know.

    You create an app that makes it easier for him to "do more of it himself" ...you really are just cutting off more ways for you to make a profit.

    I fly by the mantra of....make your client dependent on you to do everything for him.

    You start leading them down the road of "do it yourself" or showing them neat online resources..and they will keep going and going until you are eventually out of the picture.

    Your app, if anything...would be a great tool for other marketers...this way, their work becomes simplified and you plug these guys into your system and hopefully your making some markup on the print and fulfillment side too if you can find or develop decent sources.

    I have an opinion about letting business owners design their own ads...I discourage it at every opportunity...firstly because a lot of them don't know what they are doing, and their stuff ends up looking like cheez wiz, and their offers are so sissified, that no one will bother with it anyway...Secondly, its one more profit point for me, and it gives me control of quality.

    On a co-op mailer...quality ads are absolutely paramount for your products survival and longevity. You have to get your merchants to make fantastic offers. unique offers. This is the primary thing that gets the public anticipating the next card.

    Now, your system sounds like there would be more template based stuff....and that could certainly help matters.

    anyway, just my 2.

    DP
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      How much less would you charge if they did it themselves vs you doing it?

      And how would you sell them on this idea it is worth it.

      EDDM is great and one of the best ideas ever posted here but you need to remember the following.

      1. Most people do not know what it is. So you have to explain it to them.
      2. Most people will not see why they would benefit from it. So you have to sell the benefits for them.
      3. Most business owners are not techy. So would they be able to do this?
      4. Most business owners are busy. So why not do it for them.

      It is always great to innovate. But sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel.

      I see how this would benefit you? aka less work.

      But how would it benefit clients?
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Aaron points out very good considerations.

      Here is how I approach it....While I realize that "EDDM" is slowly making its way into business consciousness....I don't pitch any of my direct mail campaigns as "its EDDM"

      I never bring up EDDM. How I mail these post cards off is quite frankly none of my clients business.

      Additionally...if they know I'm using the EDDM process then they know how much I'm paying in postage....and by law, you as a marketer can charge anything you want for postage...I like to build in another penny or two when I can.

      You never want your client to know any aspect of your costs whatsoever.

      From my clients perspective, he sees that he's buying some space on a co-op mailer, and he'll be one of maybe 8 other ads or 20 ads or whatever...depending on the size of card I'm using, and the quantity of that particular run.

      That's all he needs to know.

      You create an app that makes it easier for him to "do more of it himself" ...you really are just cutting off more ways for you to make a profit.

      I fly by the mantra of....make your client dependent on you to do everything for him.

      You start leading them down the road of "do it yourself" or showing them neat online resources..and they will keep going and going until you are eventually out of the picture.

      Your app, if anything...would be a great tool for other marketers...this way, their work becomes simplified and you plug these guys into your system and hopefully your making some markup on the print and fulfillment side too if you can find or develop decent sources.

      I have an opinion about letting business owners design their own ads...I discourage it at every opportunity...firstly because a lot of them don't know what they are doing, and their stuff ends up looking like cheez wiz, and their offers are so sissified, that no one will bother with it anyway...Secondly, its one more profit point for me, and it gives me control of quality.

      On a co-op mailer...quality ads are absolutely paramount for your products survival and longevity. You have to get your merchants to make fantastic offers. unique offers. This is the primary thing that gets the public anticipating the next card.

      Now, your system sounds like there would be more template based stuff....and that could certainly help matters.

      anyway, just my 2.

      DP

      Thanks guys, I could have done a better job explaining things.

      Building a truly great product is hard. Really hard. Fortunately, Lean Start-Up principles allow you to gain a significant advantage in product development.

      To that end, I will be selling air via PPC later this week. I have an amazing video I produced through my own company with a simple landing page / user interface. The goal is simply to get them to take all necessary actions (stopping short of paying) necessary to facilitate their order.

      I have actually branded the product to be congruent with the name of the site. In other words "EDDM aint cuttin it." It's 8 letters, 2 words, 3 syllables. Far more memorable to write and speak than "EDDM"

      DP you hit most nails squarely on the head.

      I've been sketching out wireframes to simplify, simplify, simplify.

      The core value prop here is that even though EDDM is awesome - it's cost prohibitive to do a solo mailer if your average ticket is $50....

      So in a nutshell, I'm designing and will be testing through "air" different variations of the UX and making edits to site copy and video until I get 40% conversions.

      Keep in mind these folks will have come from organic, PPC, and referral traffic. So, there should be high commercial intent to purchase marketing services.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Cool concept. The best part is that someone looking to sell the service doesn't have to start from scratch learning how to do everything and building a team to design, write, print, and mail the cards, contracts, legal, accounting blah, blah.

    This is a complete product that someone can just go and sell. Right now.

    So, while I think you are initially looking at this as a simple tool for businesses to use EDDM, the REAL business you are in is allowing people a simple way to offer the service.

    Your target isn't the business owner, it's the marketer. This is something I can drop right into my existing product line to make more money with little additional prep work.

    I think you are solving a real problem and as long as you stick to LEAN it could work.

    You could probably sell a few hundred of this app right here on WF. That would be your beta group and would also get you some initial revenue on the project.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

      Cool concept. The best part is that someone looking to sell the service doesn't have to start from scratch learning how to do everything and building a team to design, write, print, and mail the cards, contracts, legal, accounting blah, blah.

      This is a complete product that someone can just go and sell. Right now.

      So, while I think you are initially looking at this as a simple tool for businesses to use EDDM, the REAL business you are in is allowing people a simple way to offer the service.

      Your target isn't the business owner, it's the marketer. This is something I can drop right into my existing product line to make more money with little additional prep work.

      I think you are solving a real problem and as long as you stick to LEAN it could work.

      You could probably sell a few hundred of this app right here on WF. That would be your beta group and would also get you some initial revenue on the project.
      I was thinking this was marketed to businesses. But marketed to marketers who would use it to simplify the process is a great idea.

      I didn't get the concept at all but now do.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
        Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

        I was thinking this was marketed to businesses. But marketed to marketers who would use it to simplify the process is a great idea.

        I didn't get the concept at all but now do.
        I won't be building anything marketed to marketers. I'm inspired by GoAnimate.com (who is crushing it). They made the tough choice: "do we market to creators, or to business people."

        They created a product that took something very complex and simplified it.

        If they can do it for animated video, you're saying it can't (I can't) do it for an 8 x 12 card?

        It's pretty simple.

        Merchant see video, then merchant has the option to "buy square" or leave site.

        Your product sucks if you can't convey it in seven words or less... Thus...

        "Reach every mailbox for five cents each."

        So, the CTA is simple; "click here to reach every mailbox for five cents each."

        Then they can click on a square. "Choose where you want your ad to be on the grid."

        After they click square; there's a new screen where they can type their ad (limited by words), or select pre-professionally written templates and swap out their business name for the generic one.

        So let's recap.

        There's a video that explains to them how they will "reach every mailbox for five cents each." Ex; "Direct mail works, but its really expensive. Unless you are a huge company - it simply doesn't add up... Invest in FRUITTYSQUARESâ„¢ (that is not the name) squares with other local non competing business owners to reach everyone's mailbox for five cents each."

        Embedded in the video is a call to action. Next to the video (see goanimate.com) there's a quick "name, e-mail" --> submit capture.

        Then, the next screen, they pick their square.

        The next screen, they pick their copy.

        The next screen they pay.

        The final screen, they share (e-mail, FB, Twitter).

        The hard part of this is the affiliate backend.

        The consumer facing product is ridiculously easy to do. In other words, I could build this for myself do voice blasts in targeted zip codes and crank em out.

        To give it to the world... and all marketers will require some savvy product design.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    So this is direct to business?

    I guess I don't get the how part. or the why for the business.

    Do they save money? I'm not even sure you save money.

    And you have to set up each area you will target and then get them to the website and get them to buy. Just seems easier to sell this directly vs. using a website. Since you have to sell them on wanting to do this (aka use the postcard method).

    I'm not going to be searching to do this. After a couple of post cards go out maybe you could get people to do it this way since they know the post card and the brand.

    I'm just being honest here. I just don't see how this is a better way of doing it. It would be easier to just sell it directly. And much faster to fill the cards.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      So this is direct to business?

      I guess I don't get the how part. or the why for the business.

      Do they save money? I'm not even sure you save money.

      And you have to set up each area you will target and then get them to the website and get them to buy. Just seems easier to sell this directly vs. using a website. Since you have to sell them on wanting to do this (aka use the postcard method).

      I'm not going to be searching to do this. After a couple of post cards go out maybe you could get people to do it this way since they know the post card and the brand.

      I'm just being honest here. I just don't see how this is a better way of doing it. It would be easier to just sell it directly. And much faster to fill the cards.
      Aaron,

      You are a genius in a lot of respects. You really are. But this is not the first post when I explained some "tech stuff" where you found yourself lost.

      How will business owners get there? Check out the Google keyword tool; type in "advertising ideas" and do an exact match search. Do you see the monthly opportunities in PPC (better yet SEO) there?

      Ok, what about that random business owner in Lincoln, Nebraska. How do you get 11 others to join him? CloudSponge; he imports his co-business owner contacts, and each business in succession does the same.

      An alert goes out to an area affiliate; "get on your horses because John's Auto just signed up!"

      Any business can go to EDDM Experts.com and do a campaign. They can go right there and reach 10,000 homes for $3,000.

      This helps them reach 10,000 homes for $500.

      Average direct mail response rate? 2% (depending on who you ask). Let's call it 1%

      So, a business just paid $500 for 100 new walk ins... is that not value?

      Here's the thing Aaron. The best products come about as someone is trying to solve a product for themselves. How do you scale an "EDDM / Bob Ross post card force?" Answer; you need to rely on technology.

      So that thinking lead to a realization...

      "Take the EDDM thing, rebrand into something else." I used the name "FruittySquares" as an example / glimpse into where I am headed here.

      "FruittySquares" is now the product, NOT EDDM...

      So, I sell 12 squares for $500 each. That grosses me $6,000...

      I outsource the whole widget (including distribution) for $3,000...

      I've made a profit (before paying affiliates) of $3,000...

      I win.

      Business owner wins.

      Affiliate wins.

      It's easy to just build this for marketers... That's a cop out.

      How do I get featured in Inc.?

      How do I cash out for a billion?

      Eh.. If all else fails, I'll have a sick referral program in place.

      BY THE WAY...

      START LOCAL; GO GLOBAL.

      A year or two of crushing it in one small city will make it a ton easier to scale up and out...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        Average direct mail response rate? 2% (depending on who you ask). Let's call it 1%

        So, a business just paid $500 for 100 new walk ins... is that not value?
        You haven't done a single direct mailing in your entire short life. You're nuthin' but a PIKER.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

          You haven't done a single direct mailing in your entire short life. You're nuthin' but a PIKER.
          Why does that even matter if I am providing an interface for folks to reach homes at five cents each? I think you don't understand that the entire widget would be outsourced to someone who has / does / know what they are doing.

          I get a cut from my software.

          I am making software so that guys like you can eat better. Make more money...

          You're right - I don't have tons of direct mail experience... But product design comes naturally.

          :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Something to consider...you will ramp this thing up a lot faster if you actually promote it in an area using direct mail...scout out a few starter businesses and add them to your own co-op mailer. ( to pay for majority/all of your cost)

    Relying on Google and other internet based things for leads? ...Ranking on Google locally is weak sauce compared to direct mail exposure. On Google you sit and wait until 6 or 7 per month of the 2367 local businesses in that town, decide to go looking on Google for some marketing...or...you get in the face of all 2367 of them at once in the mailbox.

    The other thing I'd suggest is...don't put your fricken price so damn low

    For example, if people will pay $3000, then they'll also pay $2600 right? ...and that still leaves you some wiggle room for a cheap client who can only pay $1500 or what have you.

    You drop clear down to $500 and your just throwing away $1100+ profit for no logical reason.

    I think your idea has merit, and you should at least give it a try.

    DP
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Something to consider...you will ramp this thing up a lot faster if you actually promote it in an area using direct mail...scout out a few starter businesses and add them to your own co-op mailer. ( to pay for majority/all of your cost)

      Relying on Google and other internet based things for leads? ...Ranking on Google locally is weak sauce compared to direct mail exposure. On Google you sit and wait until 6 or 7 per month of the 2367 local businesses in that town, decide to go looking on Google for some marketing...or...you get in the face of all 2367 of them at once in the mailbox.

      The other thing I'd suggest is...don't put your fricken price so damn low

      For example, if people will pay $3000, then they'll also pay $2600 right? ...and that still leaves you some wiggle room for a cheap client who can only pay $1500 or what have you.

      You drop clear down to $500 and your just throwing away $1100+ profit for no logical reason.

      I think your idea has merit, and you should at least give it a try.

      DP

      Thanks for this...

      I figured 12 x $500 = $6,000... It makes it more broadly accessible.

      What is called a "viral co-efficient" will be the driver of this. Once it reaches critical, the laws of logarithms take over.

      Think about it, there is the element of competition; "you or your competitor in this square" and also scarcity; "only 1 spot per business type." You sprinkle a game mechanic in, tighten up those viral loops, get that ONE fortuitous Tweet, FB share, article, TV mention, etc. etc.... and it's on.
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      • Profile picture of the author cruisinman
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post


        What is called a "viral co-efficient" will be the driver of this. Once it reaches critical, the laws of logarithms take over.
        Something is going to take over all right . . .
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    What is called a "viral co-efficient" will be the driver of this. Once it reaches critical, the laws of logarithms take over.
    I hear Big Bee is teaching a class on quantam salesmanship.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I have started and stopped two replies this evening. I just want to say it isn't the tech that I don't get. It is the sales process. You seem to believe this will work so I wish you luck but I do not agree.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      [

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      I hear Big Bee is teaching a class on quantam salesmanship.
      No. Read "The Lean Start-Up" by Eric Ries. There's some good stuff on viral co-efficient in Wikipedia. Essentially, you should strive for a 1:1.

      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      I have started and stopped two replies this evening. I just want to say it isn't the tech that I don't get. It is the sales process. You seem to believe this will work so I wish you luck but I do not agree.
      The cool thing is that it will cost me pennies to find out.

      I'll have a landing page set up and will simply direct targeted traffic there to see if folks bite.

      Most people "don't see how stuff will work." That's human nature. You sell cars right? Read the history on that. How many people didn't "see how it would work?"

      READ THE LEAN START UP by Eric Ries. You will learn how to test ideas and get through the build measure learn feedback loop without losing your shirt.

      I will know in about 14 days and for a spend of about $500 - whether this would work.

      If entrepreneurs started looking to WF for validation... We're in sad shape.

      Simple stuff bro. I am selling squares.

      Squares that are used to generate customers.

      Come up with an idea, build a landing page quickly on Unbounce and "smoke test."
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  • Profile picture of the author SashaLee
    BigBee,

    What you're trying to do is automate a process. Bravo!

    What you are really doing is setting up a sort-of mind map process that you can follow for yourself (or others) to take action on a campaign.

    Unfortunately, your app won't be able to handle some real-life direct mail grief:

    1. Customers not paying for their ad in time
    2. Customers wanting terms on their ad payment
    3. Printers delaying the printing schedule by one day - causing you to miss deadlines promised to your customers
    4. Artwork not up to scratch
    5. Mail just not getting delivered

    You're also putting an app in place of the sales process, which is cool - except I don't know of one entrepreneur who will hand over 500 clams without knowing to whom and to where it's actually going. Picking a box on an app won't cut it. I'll want to see an actual sample - that is I'll want to hold it in my hands.

    And this statement:

    "I'd just outsource the entire widget"

    That's where your idea collapses. Outsourcing requires more management than most consider. People bandy this term as though it were the panacea for business success. In reality, if your business depends on one outsourced solution you have no business model at all. Once one piece of that puzzle fails, disappears, doesn't perform, get's ticked off at you, the process comes to a screeching halt unless you have a complete management of the process.

    All that being said - prove us wrong. Build your app and when we read about it you'll be entitled to come on here and rub our noses in it. Best of luck to you.

    All the best,

    Sasha.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by SashaLee View Post

      BigBee,

      What you're trying to do is automate a process. Bravo!

      What you are really doing is setting up a sort-of mind map process that you can follow for yourself (or others) to take action on a campaign.

      Unfortunately, your app won't be able to handle some real-life direct mail grief:

      1. Customers not paying for their ad in time
      2. Customers wanting terms on their ad payment
      3. Printers delaying the printing schedule by one day - causing you to miss deadlines promised to your customers
      4. Artwork not up to scratch
      5. Mail just not getting delivered

      You're also putting an app in place of the sales process, which is cool - except I don't know of one entrepreneur who will hand over 500 clams without knowing to whom and to where it's actually going. Picking a box on an app won't cut it. I'll want to see an actual sample - that is I'll want to hold it in my hands.

      And this statement:

      "I'd just outsource the entire widget"

      That's where your idea collapses. Outsourcing requires more management than most consider. People bandy this term as though it were the panacea for business success. In reality, if your business depends on one outsourced solution you have no business model at all. Once one piece of that puzzle fails, disappears, doesn't perform, get's ticked off at you, the process comes to a screeching halt unless you have a complete management of the process.

      All that being said - prove us wrong. Build your app and when we read about it you'll be entitled to come on here and rub our noses in it. Best of luck to you.

      All the best,

      Sasha.

      Sasha,

      1. Customer not paying on time = moot. There will be a "check out" button to which a hold will be placed on their CC until the card fills up. Tons of SaaS companies use this method. "Reserve now, get billed later." Check out CrowdTilt for an example of this.
      2. Not sure what you mean about customer wanting terms on their ad payment; it's really simple; there will be a video which will explain why "buying these squares and putting a coupon / offer in them makes sense." They will have the choice to either buy the square or let the competitors do it. (Great copywriting will be key to this whole thing.)
      3. I reached out and have spoken with EDDM Experts. The team is rock star / awesome. Anything shipped will have been built upon a custom API which funnels all completed card orders to their system. They are the best in the world at what they do.
      4. This is simple because there will be one standard template for the entire card, plus a selection of templates to select from for individual ads. Testing is cheap, it's a few photoshop mock ups done for $100 each...
      5. Cannot control the USPS... But again, EDDM Experts works wonders. Did you know folks are using them right now to outsource the Bob Ross post card method?

      Rather than asking for validation from Warriors. Here is how I will know whether or not this thing sink or swims... Lean Start Up mechanics are AWESOME.
      1. Finishing up my animated explainer video
      2. Got a nice logo
      3. Will build 4 or 5 different landing page variants on unbounce
      4. Purchase PPC to derive targeted traffic.

      People will landing on various versions of my landing page and respond to the CTA. I'm only testing to see what percentage of people click; "get started now."

      40% clicking that first CTA gives me pause to test the next UX / UI element. Through iterative testing over two weeks, I'll know if I have something or not. Cost to me? Less than $1,000.

      No opinion of any Warrior will prevent me from testing (for free if I wanted through cold calling) the merit of any of my ideas.

      I encourage any Warrior with an original thought to share, but test and take the opinions of others with a grain of salt.

      The most valuable opinions come in the form of pointed questions.

      Ignore conjecture, and test first.

      Fail fast...

      "Move fast and break things" - Mark Zuckerberg.
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