Dating = Selling?

10 years ago

I have had several Pick Up Artists (PUA) tell me the way I sell is very similar to their techniques.

When you're agreeing with authenticity to what the prospect is saying, you are increasing the level of reality you both have. At that point the prospect is more likely to communicate the truth to you, and share more details. After all, if we're greeted with stony silence or "No, that's not how it is" to what we say, we tend to shut down, don't we?

The key here is sincerity. Don't try to fake it.

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misterme

10 years ago

Yet another article which misleads by citing something incorrectly. That's not really "interrupting" her, that's not what's at work here that gets her to like you more. By actually listening to her and letting her know you understand her, it validates her. That's the purpose of the occasional "I know" and “That happens to me all the time!” Lets her know you're paying attention and that you understand her. Compared to the legions of guys an attractive woman meets who go on and on about their careers and possessions, self absorbed and can't remember one thing she said about herself, that's what makes it appealing.

So yes, lots of parallels to the sales world. The sales person who goes on and on about themselves, their company, their product, is like the self absorbed guy who likes to talk about himself. It's a turn off.

Listening to the customer, understanding them, not making them feel invalidated as some tend to do even unknowingly, makes the customer feel you get them.

On a first date, a woman screens the guy. She wants to know if he's a potential keeper. She's looking for any reason not to see him again. If he's ignorant about something she told him about herself, he's out. Likewise, the sales person doesn't pay attention to what you've said about what you're looking for and pushes their agenda, comes off as salesy, full of hype - you're out.

In both situations, they'll smile, say it was fun, but you'll never see them again.

* I want to add I'm not saying to do this just for the sake of doing this. Making this part of your behavior, in your love life and in business, just is a good thing.

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Aaron Doud

10 years ago

I think the articles point was the timing.

Men by nature tend to wait for breaks to talk. Women tend to talk over each other.

By talking over a woman in a positive and reenforcing way you create positive feelings in the female prospect.

it's not about agreeing. Sales and life 101 tells you to always agree with a prospect. It's about how to time those agreement to be interruptions (maybe not the best word) vs. normal male vocal interactions.

This article is about timing. By getting your timing better you can close more sales (including dates). But the best timing is counter intuitive to males so you have to consciously train yourself on it and to handle males and female timing differently.

The article merely lays the groundwork it is about thinking how you can put it into action that you can make it better.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

I read the article. The timing may be incidental. Or interrupting someone's speech is a display of dominance, and some women may respond to it. No real idea here.

But Misterme's idea confirming you are listening sounds pretty darn solid.

Personally, I wouldn't interrupt anyone ever, when selling.

Because, when people do it to me...it shows a lack of respect...even when they are agreeing with me.

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Aaron Doud

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I read the article. The timing may be incidental. Or interrupting someone's speech is a display of dominance, and some women may respond to it. No real idea here.

But Misterme's idea confirming you are listening sounds pretty darn solid.

Personally, I wouldn't interrupt anyone ever, when selling.

Because, when people do it to me...it shows a lack of respect...even when they are agreeing with me.

I feel the same way as you are aware. I hold back and wait for pauses. This is a male way of thinking according to this and to me that makes sense based on thinking of observations I have seen over the years.

Females tend to talk over each other. This can be both positive and negative.

So while a male will likely feel disrespected or like the other person is trying to dominate them a female will feel a connection as long as it is done in a positive manner.

I'd love to see more studies done on this. Based on this study and personal observation (which this study made me consciously aware of) I believe that changing timing points for a male vs. female prospect could be used to increase sales.

Is it going to double someone's sales? I doubt it.
But is it another tool in the box? Yes.
Could this be a game changer for a male selling in a female dominated client base? Yes

It doesn't change anything other than the timing.
We are already doing active listening (I hope).
We are already agreeing with the prospect (I hope).

All we are changing here is the timing of how we do it. It's foriegn to me and I will 100% admit that. But it also seems clear to me why some interactions with females in sales and dating have failed when viewed thru this lens.

When I get a chance I plan to go to the mall and make some female clothing sales observations and see if i can pick up on the natural pattern. And I hope to find a gay man making sales to women. I know from my own experience and other sales managers that gay men dominate in an environment with female clientele like clothing sales. I suspect that the gay men will exhibit the best use of this for a straight male to emulate.

Been a while since I did holiday sales observations. Hell since I have done non-RV sales observations honestly. One of the greatest things you can do as a sales professional IMO is sales observations. I've been slacking on that and it is time to change it up.

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massiveray

10 years ago

Over analysing guys.

Pick up originated from cold calling and uses similar terminology, that's where the similarities end.

I'm not trying to **** any of my clients, well, maybe one!

You want to learn sales, learn sales.

You want to learn dating, learn dating.

Don't learn one and try to make it fit into something else, they are what they are!

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Aaron Doud

10 years ago

Originally Posted by massiveray

You want to learn sales, learn sales.

You want to learn dating, learn dating.

Don't learn one and try to make it fit into something else, they are what they are!

So in a date you are not trying to sell them on anything? I see selling (if we even want to call it that) as a very basic form of human interaction. One that can be seen in a variety of lights and called many different things.

Sales is simply the art & science of convincing others of the mutual benefit of a specific thing.

In dating that might be as simple as convincing them that dating more would be fun or as complex as convincing them to sleep with you.

In marketing it might be convincing someone to cut out a coupon or make a phone call.

In parenting it might be convincing your child to go to bed.

As a manager it might be convincing an employee why following a procedure is the right way to do the task.

As a teacher it might be convincing a student that learning math has value.

The list can go on and on. We use the skill better known as selling in a multitude of ways throughout our day. Yet we often pretend what we are doing isn't selling. But step back and you will realize that is exactly what it is.

Is each interaction slightly different due to the people, relationships, and terms being discussed? Of course. But each interaction plays out based on certain basic rules.

If you truly want to be great at selling you are mastering far more than getting grandma to hand over the check. And you need to learn to be aware of things like this study. To the untrained eye it seems like it is unrelated. But to the observant they see a way to gain better mastery of the art that is selling.

BTW if you don't believe watching for studies like this and using them to further your selling isn't a great idea I would point you to Derek from Social Triggers. His entire business is based around finding these studies and creating content that explains how it relates to selling and marketing.

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misterme

10 years ago

Originally Posted by massiveray

Over analysing guys.

Pick up originated from cold calling and uses similar terminology, that's where the similarities end.

In both cases, dating and sales (if your clients are women), you're still dealing with what women want. And in particular, how they communicate.

Originally Posted by Aaron Doud

All we are changing here is the timing of how we do it. It's foriegn to me and I will 100% admit that. But it also seems clear to me why some interactions with females in sales and dating have failed when viewed thru this lens.

It's not about timing. Guys talk to offer solutions and women speak to vent and share. So she says, "I can't believe what Suzie did at work today that messed things up for me" (dating scenario) or "the last thingamajig I bought really messed up on me" (if a sales situation) and the guy's likely to try and fix things with a "well you ought to tell Suzie..." or "upgrade to our latest thingamajig and make sure you enable the whatchamacallit function" when all she really wants is to share her story with you so that you understand. And you indicate that you relate to her not by interrupting but by making those noises which signal you're listening and empathize while she speaks otherwise she won't think you're listening: "uh huh" "it's terrible that happened to you" "you must feel awful about that."

OK? It's not about timing when to cut in and taking over the conversation. It's accompanying her conversation.

While she's telling you what happened and how she feels, as the sales person,you're going to hear what she wants.

And she wants to know that you get her.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

It's not about timing. Guys talk to offer solutions and women speak to vent and share. So she says, "I can't believe what Suzie did at work today that messed things up for me" (dating scenario) or "the last thingamajig I bought really messed up on me" (if a sales situation) and the guy's likely to try and fix things with a "well you ought to tell Suzie..." or "upgrade to our latest thingamajig and make sure you enable the whatchamacallit function" when all she really wants is to share her story with you so that you understand. And you indicate that you relate to her not by interrupting but by making those noises which signal you're listening and empathize while she speaks otherwise she won't think you're listening: "uh huh" "it's terrible that happened to you" "you must feel awful about that."

OK? It's not about timing when to cut in and taking over the conversation. It's accompanying her conversation.

While she's telling you what happened and how she feels, as the sales person,you're going to hear what she wants.

And she wants to know that you get her.

Wow. I must admit, you have a real handle on this. It's maybe the area I have the most problem with, relating to a woman's mode of thinking.

You may be a better Master Salesman than I am. But I'm not petty about these things.:rolleyes:

Shut up.

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misterme

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Aaron Doud

I am saying this is an added piece on top of that. Based on the difference in how women talk to each other and how men talk to each other and backed up by this dating study.

That was an excellent example you scripted out, Aaron.

This is talking about the timing of the interaction and how what they call interruption and what I would personally call "talking over" is the preferred method that women like even if the person talking to them is male.

This form of "collaborative communication" (which might be the best term for it) where one voices similar and supportive thought by taking over from the woman vs. waiting for her to be done.

You know what? I think the article's not about timing but that you see "timing" as the device through which this technique is deployed.

I see it more as a flow process.

Just make sure when you cut in to finish her thoughts, that you've got her thoughts perfectly nailed.

Because if you don't... oh woe to you if you don't! WOE!

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Wow. I must admit, you have a real handle on this. It's maybe the area I have the most problem with, relating to a woman's mode of thinking.

You may be a better Master Salesman than I am.

I had incentive to figure this part of life out. I lost someone dear to me partly because I didn't understand such things. And I didn't want that to ever happen again.

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BigMoneyRay

10 years ago

Interesting study. You have to make sure to keep a balance. You dont want to always interrupt the person, but you also dont want give the perception that you are idly listening instead of engaged in the conversation.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Definitely worth testing if selling to women.
Again, per the article, it's not a rude interruption,
but to validate or agree with them. Women do
seem to talk over each other (and me) and not
consider it rude when it is in this sense.

The women I supervise will also quickly let one
know when it is a rude interruption - as in
changing topics or disagreeing.

Dan

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Aaron Doud

10 years ago

misterme I agree 100% what you are saying. I am not disagreeing with that.

I am saying this is an added piece on top of that. Based on the difference in how women talk to each other and how men talk to each other and backed up by this dating study.

"Uh-huh" and stuff like that is just common courtesy. Anyone here who can sell is doing that.

As for "fixing" vs. "understanding" I hope everyone is aware of that difference in communication styles between men and women. If not that could be a topic to add into this discussion or to make it's own.

What this study is talking about is something different. This is talking about the timing of the interaction and how what they call interruption and what I would personally call "talking over" is the preferred method that women like even if the person talking to them is male.

This form of "collaborative communication" (which might be the best term for it) where one voices similar and supportive thought by taking over from the woman vs. waiting for her to be done.

Kind of reminds me of how a DJ is supposed to run one song into the next but get the beats to match up during the switch. When done correctly it pumps up the room more than letting one song end and the other begin. Well based on this communication flows in a similar way for women so pump them up buy letting their voice flow into yours, theirs thoughts and ideas made whole and reenforced by yours.

A very simplistic model of this would be in a clothing store. The prospect is looking at how she looks in the mirror.

Prospect: "I just don't know. It's just..."

Salesperson:"Too Flashy. I can see it in your eyes."

Prospect: "Yeah I know it's my high school reunion and I should want to get notice.."

Salesperson: "but that just isn't you. You're no longer the wall flower but you don't want everyone staring either. I have an idea why don't you head back to the dressing room and give me just a moment. There is a dress that came in just the other day that will make people notice but won't force you to be the center of attention."

Prospect: "Thanks Karen for understanding."

Salesperson: "No need to thank me.... we've all been there. Now let's make you look amazing. I'm sure there is a certain someone there who we needs to make sure knows he choose poorly."

I know that is cheesy and lame but I think you get the point. The connection is about their thoughts flowing into yours. You can't do that the same if you wait till they finish. Guys get annoyed by that but we see women do it all the time.

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massiveray

10 years ago

Lollypops...

I didn't read the article but I'm flat out saying this right now, if you're talking to women the same way that you sell whatever you're selling, you're talking to women wrong.

And no I am never trying to sell myself on a date, the thought of people doing that frustrates me.

As does comparing talking to a woman to selling.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by massiveray

Lollypops...

I didn't read the article but I'm flat out saying this right now, if you're talking to women the same way that you sell whatever you're selling, you're talking to women wrong.

It's pronounced "Wrongishly". They are doing it wrongishly.

Now, use it in a sentence. Wait...I just did.

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shawnlebrun

10 years ago

Yes... dating IS selling yourself.

It's about being likable. It's about being genuinely interested in the other person... and showing that by listening 95% of the time.

It's about learning how to deal with your fear.. specifically dealing with the fear of rejection and just taking action.

In selling... it's all about providing value to the other person's life. That's true with dating as well.

In selling, it's all about finding a win-win situation where BOTH people get what they want. Same with dating.

I've learned that there ISN'T much we do in life that doesn't include some aspect of selling or persuasion.

in almost every single case of the top sales people I know... they are all likable. They just have a likable air and quality about them. This would probably also get you further in dating as well...

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Aaron Doud

10 years ago

Originally Posted by shawnlebrun

I've learned that there ISN'T much we do in life that doesn't include some aspect of selling or persuasion.

My belief as well. It's why learning how to handle (and master) the personal interaction we call selling is so important. If you can sell anything the world is yours. No matter what you choose to do.

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shawnlebrun

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Aaron Doud

My belief as well. It's why learning how to handle the person interaction we call selling is so important. If you can sell anything the world is yours. No matter what you choose to do.

Exactly.

Like it or not... if you're going to deal with other people... you gotta sell yourself. On dates, on job interviews, on sales calls, in a group of friends deciding on movie or restaurant to visit.

Here's selling in my house....

Me: Hey hon, wanna watch the Red Sox tonight?

Wife: no thanks, I'm not a big baseball fan

Me: Why, they're one step away from winning the World Series?

Wife: Let's watch Grey's Anatomy instead

Me: PACK YOUR SHIT NOW!!!

Well, okay, not really... but still, we sell ourselves all the time in life.

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

I wanted to include a typical example of me selling my wife. Remember, I'm a Master Salesman.

Claude "I want to eat that gallon of ice cream myself"

Cheryl "But honey, we talked about this. A gallon of ice cream will make you fat"

Claude "So now you're calling me fat?"

Cheryl "No dear. You're beautiful. I just don't want you to be unhealthy"

Claude "You mean so I can keep supporting you? That's pretty selfish!"

Cheryl "No, I want you to be healthy because I love you"

Claude "But you wouldn't love me if I gained weight?"

Cheryl "Of course dear, I would always love you no matter what"

Claude (Changing gears) "Ha! Prove it! Right now!"

Cheryl "Honey, I'm busy picking up your Hot Wheels toys. Maybe later"

Claude "No! Now! And wear that maid outfit"

Cheryl "But I'm very tired from cleaning up the soup you threw all over the carpet. It would just be Pity Sex"

Claude "I'll take it!"

Claude closes another one with cutting edge verbal manipulation....and pity.

Claude "Machiavelli" Whitacre

Added later; I showed my wife this and she laughed out loud. She sounds exactly like this post. And when I'm playing with her...I sound exactly like this post. What an amazing woman.
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shawnlebrun

10 years ago

Claude.... ice cream, Hot Wheels, maid outfits...

Thanks for the ideas!!

And that was a masterful "close" at the end... hope you don't mind if I steal this for my own use tonight!

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Dating = Selling?

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