Hard sales is out

10 years ago

That is the way it works in the big world...

But it is the salesmen job to take the initiative and generate the leads they are sitting on there asses .Alec is most likely coming in to turn things around!

Did you hear what that one salesmen said ?
Leads are shit!
So I guess him sitting on his ass is going to fix it ?

It happens everyday in real life when sales # are down and most of the time works...

I haven't seen this move but from your clip it looks good along with accurate to how it works.

I worked at many (3) fortune 500 companies as a sales consultant/partner sometimes ABC is the gospel !

ADT Security is one of them that ran a few offices like that !

If you aren't closing then you aren't getting a check.

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jimbo13

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ATAC

If you aren't closing then you aren't getting a check.

Doesn't mean you need to be Hard Selling.

Caveat: In the UK people define hard selling as:

Wearing people down by trying to make them buy things they don't need or want with cheap gimmicky closing techniques.

People who do that are presenting to poorly qualified prospects and focusing on the close without finding any real open.

No offence but this is considered American style in the UK.

Dan

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

Doesn't mean you need to be Hard Selling.

Caveat: In the UK people define hard selling as:

Wearing people down by trying to make them buy things they don't need or want with cheap gimmicky closing techniques.

People who do that are presenting to poorly qualified prospects and focusing on the close without finding any real open.

No offence but this is considered American style in the UK.

Dan

Dan; Except for in the movies, and maybe the lowest form of salespeople...this kind of selling really doesn't exist.

I've read sales books that say things like "Always Be Closing'" but they are written by the worst salespeople. They also teach flippant answers to objections, and "bear trap" closes. These things only work on the simple minded, and are only used by uneducated salespeople.

It isn't "American selling", it's just bad selling. Selling that way has a name, it's called "Beginner selling".

And so far, every movie that has salespeople in it, shows them as either completely incompetent...or con men.

I just wish that nobody sold this way. But they still exist.

by the way, the 7 day cooling off period? In the US, it's 3 days. Smart law. It got rid of some of the scum.

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jimbo13

10 years ago

Was it ever in?

I think companies in the UK were infatuated by all things American in the 1980s so thought this was actually a good way to sell things.

7 days cooling off period pretty much killed it in the UK.

Dan

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trader909

10 years ago

yeah there's no need for the hard pressured sell. Sure be a good salesman, know your product inside out, close the deal....etc

But coming across pushy,needy, even aggressively isn't on and shouldn't be needed. It's a big turn off.

They also said big mouths, life and soles of the party, that think thy are the best salesman aren't

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NewParadigm

10 years ago

Hey you, put that down! Coffee is for closers!

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trader909

10 years ago

Sorry boss ^^

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misterme

10 years ago

Here's where it comes from: the boiler room type operations. This mentality still exists with the crowd who believe a good salesperson can "sell ice to Eskimos." In other words, to persuade people to buy things they don't need. Of course, getting people to buy stuff you know they don't need means your choices are somewhat unethical because you could choose instead to be selling something to people who need that something.

Some time ago I had started working in a car dealership and the sales manager told us how he fired two new salespeople who in their first two weeks had an impressive 80% closing ratio. What??? He explained: they were cherry picking the leads. He wanted every person who walked into that dealership to be given the full sales process from top to bottom, no matter where they were in the sales funnel. So he fired them. Of course to the sales person investing the time to do the full monty with every one just because they walked onto the lot means presenting to unqualified leads, those with bad credit, tire kickers, et al. Good for the dealership playing numbers like a casino house does, but not so good for the individual salesperson looking to use their time the most profitably.

I've found the best selling opportunities are when you're presenting to someone who can benefit from what you offer, is willing and able to pay your price, and also importantly, when you sell in a way which maps to the way their mind goes from 0 to Sold (note to Claude: don't you dare swipe that as a title for a book! I've got first dibs on it.)

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

He wanted every person who walked into that dealership to be given the full sales process from top to bottom, no matter where they were in the sales funnel. So he fired them. Of course to the sales person investing the time to do the full monty with every one just because they walked onto the lot means presenting to unqualified leads, those with bad credit, tire kickers, et al. Good for the dealership playing numbers like a casino house does, but not so good for the individual salesperson looking to use their time the most profitably.

Misterme; These salespeople were taught that for two reasons;
1) It slightly increases the number of sales for the dealership.
2) The sales manager doesn't have to do it.

This "Pitch everybody that breaths" idea is why salespeople quit.

In my industry (retail vacuum cleaner sales), I still hear 'trainers" say "Everyone gets a demonstration". And it does increase sales. But it kills any chance of that customer coming back, if they don't buy.

We've all been in a store like that at one time or another. We get demonstrated to..with no reason....when we are in a hurry....and we never go back.

Prospects pursued run away. Magnets..not arrows.

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jimbo13 10 years ago

Claude

I don't imagine it is usual practice in the US now. More of a 1980's thing maybe some of the 1990's especially prevalent in the Home Improvement Industry which is why many In Home Sales Consumer Laws popped up.

Rightly or wrongly if you ask people in the UK which nation is pushy they would say US which is why it is seen as American style.

Americans might think we are quaint and reserved or uptight or something yet we're actually... ermmm okay then you can have that.

What Jason writes is very similar to how sales have always been over here. More of a natural conversation which I imagine you subscribe to.

Thing is many books etc, Youtube clips are of, or written by Americans (low end as you say) so that plus Films, warped new sales peoples reality as to what sales should be.

Bit like young men thinking war is like Call of Duty until their buddy gets his arm blown off.

Dan
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Jason Kanigan

10 years ago

Misterme: OMG all presentation and zero qualification? Sounds VERY old, time-consuming and pointless. Terrible.

Claude: unfortunately this is the way the public sees selling. Herb Tarlac from WKRP In Cincinnati. Trying to push them into bad deals that are to the seller's advantage, not the buyer's.

The mindset as sellers we need to be in is looking for opportunities that are to the advantage of BOTH the buyer and the seller. And to remember that buyers are skeptical. They know all about this pushy style of selling. (So do all the professional corporate buyers of the world; as an operations management student, I took courses on unraveling traditional selling long before I knew anything about sales.)

So EXPECT buyers to lie to you. They have to! For their own safety from bad salespeople.

If you can demonstrate to them that you're not out for their cash, but instead a solution to their problem that benefits both of you, they will open up and start sharing some of the Truth about what is really going on in their world. Then you have a huge leg up on any competition.

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socialentry 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

as an operations management student, I took courses on unraveling traditional selling long before I knew anything about sales.)

They seriously teach you anti-sales techniques in uni??? :confused:
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bob ross

10 years ago

Hard selling is still alive and thriving (particularly in the home improvement industry in America.); although it has certainly become a different sales game since consumers are much more aware as well as informed (or have google at their disposal).
No matter where you live, I bet there is a dominant window and siding business locally that's using somewhat hard sell tactics with sales reps routinely making $100k+, closing any bare-bones qualified individual with a home and a pulse.

I'm a fan of the hard sell; so long as it's something you truly feel they can benefit from and feel good about selling. I guess it comes down to what you consider "hard sell".

Thard selling I don't agree with is if you're selling something you personally know will not be good for them, as well as when you take advantage of someone by brute pressure alone.

Hard selling to me is assuming they are going to buy from the get-go, not taking no for an answer, and doing everything you can to close the deal right now.

A truly good closer will be able to accomplish all that without coming across as a sleazeball. The sales appointment that requies strong closing will be like a roller coaster with points of very high tension and unease, but ending in a rewarding and satisfying conclusion.

Most of the time there will be lots of no's, and often the conversation will come to a point where you are on the brink of losing the sale but manage to bring it back. This is the large percentage of deals that an average closer will never be able to land, and often they are the most rewarding and lucrative.

A good closer knows how to manipulate and control the conversation to where the prospect literally closes themselves.

If you were employing lead generators and salespeople you'd want them aggressively selling, right? I cannot tell you how many times I have had my sales guys report back from an appointment telling me the lead was really interested and wants a call back next month... then I call that guy on speakerphone immediately and close the deal.

To me, personally (not saying it's the right thing for you), I hate the thought of calling a hundred people before I can find someone qualified enough. I rather adjust what I'm selling or tighten my list (or both) so that I can start seeing results within twenty minutes of calling, that way there's at least some action while you wait for whatever big fish you're looking to stumble across.

If I can get someone to open up a dialogue with me I want to be able to offer them something I can make some cash on and turn them into a long-term client. It's good for them them just as much as myself.

To be honest, when I prospect, my personal opinion is that I'm doing you a favor by offering what I have and I'm going to do what it takes to get you to take advantage it.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

If you were employing lead generators and salespeople you'd want them aggressively selling, right? I cannot tell you how many times I have had my sales guys report back from an appointment telling me the lead was really interested and wants a call back next month... then I call that guy on speakerphone immediately and close the deal.

Jake; I'm gritting my teeth just reading about that call. I've had a few thousand just like it. To me, it's a necessary evil, because the vast majority of salespeople simply cannot be trained well enough to sell at a high level. So I would take the calls, close the sale..and the rep would think they sold something. It is nice to know, that someone else shares that experience.

Originally Posted by bob ross

To me, personally (not saying it's the right thing for you), I hate the thought of calling a hundred people before I can find someone qualified enough. I rather adjust what I'm selling or tighten my list (or both) so that I can start seeing results within twenty minutes of calling, that way there's at least some action while you wait for whatever big fish you're looking to stumble across.

Let's say 2-3% are really prospects that will buy with no real resistance. That's what marketing is for, to find those people. You know that.
And guys that only show the easiest 1%, still think they sold something.
But I'm with you on this one. Maybe 25% or more are qualified, and will buy...if handled the right way. They will take skill...a sort of dance...patience....ability to direct the flow of the conversation, a single minded purpose....and tenacity. And when we are done, nobody know that we just did something, most people would find impossible.

The only reason I don't engage in these "Battles" is because I don't need to..and I'm losing interest. But every once in a while, I'll close a hard one, just to make sure I still can.

Originally Posted by jimbo13

Claude

I don't imagine it is usual practice in the US now. More of a 1980's thing maybe some of the 1990's especially prevalent in the Home Improvement Industry which is why many In Home Sales Consumer Laws popped up.
Dan

Dan; If the customer perceives that they are being pressured...it's clumsy, and unskilled.

What we see as selling in the movies isn't real selling. Just like surgery we see in movies isn't real surgery. people who write movies don't know how to sell, so they use the stereotypes we are all familiar with.

Even people in the US almost universally think of selling as something ...beneath them. I've closed sales that most would think impossible (I'm not alone here). But to the uninitiated observer, it was just a pleasant conversation. Detecting subtle shifts in attention and attitude, guiding interest one way or another.....It's like a symphony. To the uninitiated...it's just music.

It's very difficult to teach so that it can be really absorbed.

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jimbo13

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Even people in the US almost universally think of selling as something ...beneath them.

Shows you about perception then Claude.

I have not been to the US for 20 years, yet for some reason had it in my head that due to Americas get up and go culture which was basically essential to get the country going in the first place, sales people had a certain amount of respect.

Maybe it is 1st and 2nd generations that have this attitude and 3rd generations onwards are comfortable and forget on whose backs they got there.

Then again, that is also a guess.

I can't imagine that Andrew Carnegie or Thomas Watson looked down on any sales people.

Yet I suppose an IBM Finance Director today would look down at a mere computer tabulating machine sales rep. :rolleyes:

Dan

PS: Talking about Thomas Watson I like his sales line. I adapted it in the past for something.

Something like: 'I know you don't have/want a tabulating machine or you would have come into our office and bought one. I'm just here to ask you why you don't want/have one?

And then he took it from there. Got all the objections out front in a completely casual non pressure, friendly manner. Smart.

This is what I would be saying to people who didn't have websites or whatever, if I was inclined to sell what people here do.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

I can't imagine that Andrew Carnegie or Thomas Watson looked down on any sales people.

It's because they sold. I don't know a single high profile CEO that couldn't sell. I'm only speaking from a limited experience.

Originally Posted by jimbo13

PS: Talking about Thomas Watson I like his sales line. I adapted it in the past for something.

Something like: 'I know you don't have/want a tabulating machine or you would have come into our office and bought one. I'm just here to ask you why you don't want/have one?

And then he took it from there. Got all the objections out front in a completely casual non pressure, friendly manner. Smart.

This is what I would be saying to people who didn't have websites or whatever, if I was inclined to sell what people here do.

I actually like that line from Watson very much. It sure is a conversation starter.

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jimbo13 10 years ago

I read that he did ok?

Dan
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socialentry

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

Hard selling to me is assuming they are going to buy from the get-go, not taking no for an answer, and doing everything you can to close the deal right now.

If you were employing lead generators and salespeople you'd want them aggressively selling, right? I cannot tell you how many times I have had my sales guys report back from an appointment telling me the lead was really interested and wants a call back next month... then I call that guy on speakerphone immediately and close the deal.

I never worked in any places that taught "hard sell" so I'd just like to ask a q:

What do you say if the prospect comes up with

"I'm on a job"
"I'm driving"
"I'm doing X Y Z"
"I'm taking care of kids"
"I am doing XYZ paperwork , I'm trying to concentrate"

I'm sure there is an elegant (middle way) way to respond to this between the stereotypical Hollywood salesman and simply asking for a better time to be calling back.

I kind of ignore it the first time to see if its just a knee-jerk relation, but doing the second or third time is ,well, I do it clumsily

I'm really curious because I really don't like callbacks, I really hate chasing people.

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bob ross

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Jake; I'm gritting my teeth just reading about that call. I've had a few thousand just like it. To me, it's a necessary evil, because the vast majority of salespeople simply cannot be trained well enough to sell at a high level. So I would take the calls, close the sale..and the rep would think they sold something. It is nice to know, that someone else shares that experience.

Right, and it's almost always the simplest things that close the deal. You want to smack the rep on the head for not seeing the opportunity. And yes, I'm very familiar with that backwards logic they usually come up with in their heads that makes them think they sold it. Doesn't matter how great of a demo they did or how excited they got the prospects... they couldn't close the deal and would have made nothing!

What really burned me is when I would close their deal via a discount, and then have to hear the rep tell me later that if I didn't discount and close them now they would have called back and bought at full price!

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Let's say 2-3% are really prospects that will buy with no real resistance. That's what marketing is for, to find those people. You know that.
And guys that only show the easiest 1%, still think they sold something.
But I'm with you on this one. Maybe 25% or more are qualified, and will buy...if handled the right way. They will take skill...a sort of dance...patience....ability to direct the flow of the conversation, a single minded purpose....and tenacity. And when we are done, nobody know that we just did something, most people would find impossible.

The only reason I don't engage in these "Battles" is because I don't need to..and I'm losing interest. But every once in a while, I'll close a hard one, just to make sure I still can.

Yep, it's like a chess game where we're a dozen moves ahead of the opponent but an outsider would have no clue what we're doing. It really is an elegant symphony of things going on.

Originally Posted by socialentry

I never worked in any places that taught "hard sell" so I'd just like to ask a q:

What do you say if the prospect comes up with

"I'm on a job"
"I'm driving"
"I'm doing X Y Z"
"I'm taking care of kids"
"I am doing XYZ paperwork , I'm trying to concentrate"

I'm sure there is an elegant (middle way) way to respond to this between the stereotypical Hollywood salesman and simply asking for a better time to be calling back.

I kind of ignore it the first time to see if its just a knee-jerk relation, but doing the second or third time is ,well, I do it clumsily

I'm really curious because I really don't like callbacks, I really hate chasing people.

I, like you, hate callbacks. That doesn't mean I don't do it but yeah I hate them as much as you do or more.

I do have a good response that will help you on getting past that 2nd or 3rd "I really need to get back to work..." blabber.

I'm glad you ignore it the first time, because weak closers quit when they hear those things. My general response to the FIRST time they give me one of those lines is "I understand, let me just ask you a quick question..."

And if I'm getting somewhere on this call but they bring it up again I use this:
"I totally understand and I'll be out of your hair in a minute but let me tell you WHY I think you can benefit from this..."

This statement works because:
1. You're not asking them permission. You're still in control over everything so you're not losing authority but you're not sounding like an asshole. You're actually being very reasonable about it.

2. You're giving them a reason for why it's so important to keep listening and that there's a good reason for them to take some time to focus on this.

An alternative method that works well is (and is more 'theatrical') is to simply tell them you have no problem getting back to them at a more convenient time. As you gather the details of when and where to call them back you'll find that their guard will be almost completely down at this point.

Then as you finish the details you simply ask them a casual question or two regarding what you're offering. When their guard is down and they think they have 'avoided a pitch' they usually will answer your questions which lead you right back into the pitch!

Example:

Them: "Look I'm in the middle of doing inventory right now I can't talk"

You: "Oh I understand, no problem is it OK if I send you some info in the mail?"

Them: (relieved!) "Yeah that would be good can you do that?"

You: "Sure, what's the best address to send it to?"

Them: "2500 James St..."

You: (in a very relaxed non-rushing tone) "Alright awesome, what would you be most interested in getting info on... a mobile site or a text marketing package?"

Them: "probably both I guess, I mean I'm always interested in anything that brings in business"

You: "Yeah I hear ya! You know I was thinking you're probably so busy it's hard to put together any kind of marketing isn't it? That's what's so nice about our text marketing, you don't have to do anything except tell me what you deals you want me to send out to people.

Have you been doing anything to keep your customers coming back more often lately?

And you're back in the pitch (with their guard down even lower)!

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

What really burned me is when I would close their deal via a discount, and then have to hear the rep tell me later that if I didn't discount and close them now they would have called back and bought at full price!

I laughed out loud when I read this. I can't count how many times I either closed a sale on the phone, or closed one in a home (with the new guy demonstrating) where I had to discount or offer a premium...and then the rep complains. "They were going to call us back next Tuesday and pay full price!".

And every new rep went through a dozen "Going to buy next week" sure sales. :rolleyes:

And every new rep thought "This guy is different. He promised...as soon as his insurance settlement came in...he would buy".

Ahhhh memories.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

The reason the sales "losers" where getting the "close" or get fired speech is because none of them ultimately took responsibility for their own failures.

Instead they made excuses which blamed any one but themselves. The company PAID for their leads so they didn't even have to drum their leads up on their own.

Yeah, I agree. The leads are provided? Don't complain about the quality. In the movie though, the reps were extremely weak.

But someone sending in a card because they want to know more about a resort property? Those are worth their weight in gold.

If I had lead cards that cost me hundreds of dollars each to generate...I'd never give them to anyone in that office. Maybe the Pacino character. but the rest? No.

I was hired once to improve an offices production. I spent the day in training their "reps". What a bunch of whiners and losers.

The owner was afraid of upsetting the reps, and hid in her office. I fired them all. And they all left. I told the owner that we would hire a new crew that wasn't already ruined (by the owner). She called them all that evening, and they came back the next day. I walked in, saw them, turned around, and walked out.

Not every memory of those times was a fond one.

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kenmichaels

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The owner was afraid of upsetting the reps, and hid in her office. I fired them all. And they all left. I told the owner that we would hire a new crew that wasn't already ruined (by the owner). She called them all that evening, and they came back the next day. I walked in, turned around, and walked out.

Not every memory of those times was a fond one.

I have had to do that. It's not fun. My very first office had out grown itself.
I had to find and prep a new place. It took some time. I handed the reigns
over to someone i trusted. That was a huge mistake.

The sales staff ran through leads like a hot knife thru butter. Sales went down.
Charge backs went up. I put everything on hold went back to fix things.
It was so out of control .... more then anything were the lies to sell.

I spent two weeks on site trying to retrain. After two weeks I just
fired all but one guy. They were ruined.They were going to ruin me.
It was my only option. The one guy and I got one the phones
and between the two of us were able to keep all the bills paid
and eventually get it growing again.

I learned so many lessons from that. Most are ones I still use today.

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Matthew North

10 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

I never worked in any places that taught "hard sell" so I'd just like to ask a q:

What do you say if the prospect comes up with

"I'm on a job"
"I'm driving"
"I'm doing X Y Z"
"I'm taking care of kids"
"I am doing XYZ paperwork , I'm trying to concentrate"

I'm sure there is an elegant (middle way) way to respond to this between the stereotypical Hollywood salesman and simply asking for a better time to be calling back.

I kind of ignore it the first time to see if its just a knee-jerk relation, but doing the second or third time is ,well, I do it clumsily

I'm really curious because I really don't like callbacks, I really hate chasing people.

Think about if YOU were driving or deep in concentration and were interrupted by a cold caller. Would YOU want the salesperson to try and barrel through your resistance or respect that it's simply a bad time?

On a note related to OP, I think there are two paradigms you can approach sales and success with people in general:

You can be someone that assumes their value socially with people and has a belief that they are enough exactly how they are. You detach yourself from outcome and have the self-trust that if there's a fit they will buy from you without the use of manipulative tactics or hard selling.

You want to make the sale a little less than the customer wants to buy. You push the prospect away more than you persuade. This style is counter-intuitive which is why it works; you lean back and they will learn forward to rescue you. (as Jason would say.)

Only people who understand and have practiced sales for years will know why this psychology is effective.

The other paradigm is using the hard sell, tie-downs, double-downs, yes ladders, pushing, objection handling, closing, pitch anything moves! Keep hitting them in the face and one of you will eventually curl up and submit. How fun.

I think most people learned how to sell this way because that was the status quo. And it does work well when you are fearless with a lot of natural ability. But it's exhausting, adversarial and most people really aren't that stupid. They will figure out what you're doing, either during the presentation or after the sale has been made. Would YOU like to be sold and pushed into a decision you weren't sure you wanted to make? Is this a good way to start a relationship with someone? lol

Matthew.

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KingOfContentMarketing

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

Hard selling is still alive and thriving (particularly in the home improvement industry in America.); although it has certainly become a different sales game since consumers are much more aware as well as informed (or have google at their disposal).

You speak the truth. I was talking to a relative in the basement waterproofing business in the Midwest. I was talking about how sales is changing, less hard sell. He just laughed and said their salespeople are still the same as 30 years ago: More Glengarry Glen Ross than Ari Galper.

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misterme

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross:
If you were employing lead generators and salespeople you'd want them aggressively selling, right? I cannot tell you how many times I have had my sales guys report back from an appointment telling me the lead was really interested and wants a call back next month... then I call that guy on speakerphone immediately and close the deal.
Jake; I'm gritting my teeth just reading about that call. I've had a few thousand just like it. To me, it's a necessary evil, because the vast majority of salespeople simply cannot be trained well enough to sell at a high level. So I would take the calls, close the sale..and the rep would think they sold something. It is nice to know, that someone else shares that experience.

Claude Whitacre; I'm gritting my teeth just reading about that call. I've had a few thousand just like it. To me, it's a necessary evil, because the vast majority of salespeople simply cannot be trained well enough to sell at a high level. So I would take the calls, close the sale..and the rep would think they sold something. It is nice to know, that someone else shares that experience.

What part do you think "the guy with authority is calling me, not just a sales person" may influence those sales?

Originally Posted by KingOfContentMarketing

You speak the truth. I was talking to a relative in the basement waterproofing business in the Midwest. I was talking about how sales is changing, less hard sell. He just laughed and said their salespeople are still the same as 30 years ago: More Glengarry Glen Ross than Ari Galper.

Maybe it really depends on the type of people being called on. Because if you do Glengarry Glen Ross to my clients, guaranteed you won't make a dime. But be like Ari Galper, and make thousands.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

What part do you think "the guy with authority is calling me, not just a sales person" may influence those sales?

I don't know precisely, but I know that the "Boss is on the phone" helped.
The other part that helped, was that I could really find out what the problem was. Usually it was as simple as lowering the down payment, extending payments, giving something for a trade in...or letting them keep their trade in.

The reps were smart people. They just had no idea why we did what we did. So, to them, some problem would be insurmountable. Usually it wasn't. By the time they were trained well enough to do all this "negotiation" on their own...they were gone.

It also helped (phone closing) that the prospect thought that they were getting a special offer, not available to everyone. And it sounded more real coming from the Owner.

It was hugely effective, but I've lost my taste for any of it.

By the way. When a vacuum cleaner salesman comes to your home, it's almost assumed that you can negotiate. It's just the Zeitgeist with in home salespeople.

A high end Photographer? You're the professional, not your boss. Different animal.

Although, the last few years I sold in home, I just presented myself as the owner, and negotiated myself, if needed.

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misterme

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

When a vacuum cleaner salesman comes to your home, it's almost assumed that you can negotiate. It's just the Zeitgeist with in home salespeople.

A high end Photographer? You're the professional, not your boss. Different animal.

Oh, maybe if it's for life or death surgery, but there are always those prospects who look to negotiate with anything else. You know there's a certain number of plays in the prospective client playbook no matter the industry.

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KingOfContentMarketing

10 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

Maybe it really depends on the type of people being called on. Because if you do Glengarry Glen Ross to my clients, guaranteed you won't make a dime. But be like Ari Galper, and make thousands.

That's no problem. (See what I did there?

)

I agree and I think he was overstating it somewhat, but that particular firm had a rep for hard selling.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

We keep talking about Hard Sell VS Soft Sell.

To me, it's far more like "uneducated clumsy selling" VS "prepared, trained, invisible selling".

I've hard closed lots of people that say "Man, am I glad you didn't pressure me like that other guy". I really was selling hard....But, to them, it just felt like a conversation among friends.

Originally Posted by misterme

?
Maybe it really depends on the type of people being called on. Because if you do Glengarry Glen Ross to my clients, guaranteed you won't make a dime. But be like Ari Galper, and make thousands.

"You've obviously had a bad experience with that kind of salesman. Tell me about it." (See what I did there?)

"You seem to like the way Ari Galper sells. Tell me, what do you like most about that approach?"

HA! KingOfContentMarketing! Two can play at this game!

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Horny Devil

Banned 10 years ago

Hard sales don't exist. It's known as intelligent sales, conducted by an astute student of the human cerebral make-up. Soft sales is for wusses, apprentices, and wannabes. End of.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Hop on over to the WSO forums, or read some of the current top marketers sales letters and you find all the HARD SELLING you could ask for.

If you are playing off of peoples fears, emotions, greed, or vanity you are HARD SELLING.

It doesn't matter what the approach is, subtle or in your face; if you grind on any of the above you are hard selling. PERIOD!

Originally Posted by Horny Devil

Hard sales don't exist. It's known as intelligent sales, conducted by an astute student of the human cerebral make-up. Soft sales is for wusses, apprentices, and wannabes. End of.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Hop on over to the WSO forums, or read some of the current top marketers sales letters and you find all the HARD SELLING you could ask for.

If you are playing off of peoples fears, emotions, greed, or vanity you are HARD SELLING.

It doesn't matter what the approach is, subtle or in your face; if you grind on any of the above you are hard selling. PERIOD!

Rus; I agree with you about hard selling in sales letters. In fact, I can't think of another profitable way to do it. The same as on TV commercials, infomercials, ads, any kind of marketing.

But in person selling is different. Nobody really talks like a marketing piece, and it's a one sided conversation. In other words, I would never talk in person, like I do in a sales letter.

Just a thought.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

One can still hard sell in person Claude, its very easy to be subtle and use peoples greed, vanity, or fear of loss against them.

Like you said, those who are masters are already 12 moves ahead in the prospects minds, they don't stand a chance.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Rus; I agree with you about hard selling in sales letters. In fact, I can't think of another profitable way to do it. The same as on TV commercials, infomercials, ads, any kind of marketing.

But in person selling is different. Nobody really talks like a marketing piece, and it's a one sided conversation. Just a thought.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

One can still hard sell in person Claude, its very easy to be subtle and use peoples greed, vanity, or fear of loss against them.

Like you said, those who are masters are already 12 moves ahead in the prospects minds, they don't stand a chance.

HA! Using people's greed, vanity, and fear?

I never thought of that as hard selling. I just thought of that as selling.

No, no, no, I do all of that. Just not as blatantly as in a sales letter.

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ConsultJoseph

10 years ago

What's the movie where this clip came from? If I would hear that speech from a boss, I would have walked out and resigned. If the company would treat their agents who bring sales like garbage, sayonara my friend!

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bob ross

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Good sales people don't waste their time on unqualified prospects.

Ain't no money in it. If you're in sales and management is forcing you to present to the unqualified, find the door. Life is short.

Yeah which is why it's best to have lead generators that filter them out or at least cut out the prospecting part and spoon feed interested people to a closer.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Some great responses on this thread but I'd like to point out something.

The ABC & AIDA sales methods are NOT HARD SALES techniques and equating them as hard sales techniques shows the misconceptions people have about sales. (Maybe because of this movie in some cases.)

So back to this clip.

The reason the sales "losers" where getting the "close" or get fired speech is because none of them ultimately took responsibility for their own failures.

Instead they made excuses which blamed any one but themselves. The company PAID for their leads so they didn't even have to drum their leads up on their own.

The boss that showed up had already proven himself successful at closing with the SAME lead source.

The movie really points out major flaws in "people" not sales. The plot line is all about the "Glenn Gary Glen Ross" leads.

You know, the "GOLDEN" leads, and if only we could get those leads we'd close deals. We'd also be the 900k a year, wearing a watch that's worth more then your car closer.

Also, if I was paying a ton of money generating warm leads for my sales force and all they did was say things like, "the leads are shit" and just made excuses you can bet your last dollar I'd be giving them the same speech and yeah if they didn't like it? FU! there's the door pal, I'll hold it open for you on the way out.

Why is this my perspective?

For YEARS I sold in insurance restoration which is a DREAM COME TRUE sales environment.

EVERY prospect has to have the product/service, EVERY prospect only pays a small fraction of the total cost, their insurance covered the rest.

I'd hire sales people and still get the same damn excuses you watched them come up with in this clip.

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Jason Kanigan

10 years ago

I know we don't always read everyone's signatures, so I'd like to make an unrequested plug for Claude's ONE CALL CLOSING book. It's in the War Room, and you can get it through the link in his signature. That's a few lines up.

I'm reading it now. The response to the Price question alone is worth your time.

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Hard sales is out

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