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[2014] New Interview with Dave Kurlan - Sales Force Developer - On Cold Calling

by Jason Kanigan
6 replies
Somehow it's been two years since my last interview with Boston-area sales force developer Dave Kurlan. Today we discuss phone prospecting, the topic of his latest article in Top Sales magazine. We cover:
  • Who is using cold calling to prospect? When should we use it?
  • The surprising truth about how many attempts are frequently necessary to reach prospect—and how the new phenomenon of “passive rejection” could be hurting you
  • How to start conversations effectively, particularly with the use of Pacing
  • How to leave voicemails that get returned—and what it takes today, including the odd connection between Halloween and prospecting
  • And more!


>> Click here to listen << (~15 minutes, no opt in required)


More info:

Top Sales magazine issue (Dave's article starts on page 16)

14 Top blog posts by Dave Kurlan ("What it takes to get appointments scheduled" is the one with his pacing recordings)

My 2012 interview with Dave (~45 minutes, and I just listened to it again--remains extremely valuable)
#2014 #dave #developer #force #interview #kurlan #sales
  • Profile picture of the author mindtech
    Thanks for this interview.... this is gold
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    • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
      Originally Posted by mindtech View Post

      Thanks for this interview.... this is gold
      It's a dang gold bar.
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      • Profile picture of the author Iqball
        Hello Jason, thanks for sharing the Dave Kurlan. Just finished listening and overall nothing special really.

        Some useful points and advisories on slower delivery on the initial cold call and not delivering the spiel straight off the shot of the bat.
        That is good.

        But, I strongly disagree with the how to leave effective voice mail advice given in the recording; the first message day 1 format is perfect, light and polite. That is all fine.

        But here is the point; leaving a voice message everyday for ten days straight ad nauseam to your prospect in a row! Are you kidding me??!! This will completely annoy the prospect. Dave Kurlan is saying the golden rule is "less is more" ? What he is actually advocating is "more is more" by way of daily voice mail version of spam! I know if I had the someone leaving me unsolicited messages everyday to call him back, I would think, oh it's that imbecile again and completely and fully expunge him from my memory forthwith.

        Not only that, Dave Kurlan on the 4th, 5th, 9th day suggests voicemail with choicest words such as is "need", "please" and "i am not good at this" _ (prospect will be thinking on hearing that one; yes my friend, you are definitely not good at this) This just comes across desperate and amateurish. And the other words, on the 10th day "you probably know who this is by now"? That is the killer because you now have the prospect thinking he is being stalked and running for the hills and hinterlands!

        Come on!

        Would not it be better and more refreshing to leave a short voicemail on first day, and then leave message on alternate days for e.g.

        Mon: Message
        Tue: Wait for Response
        Wed: Reminder Message
        Thurs. as Tues.
        Fri: Reminder Message

        So by pretty much end of week there is no response - move on to next prospect - end of the story.

        I believe it's a fine line. Yes of course some can take the more pushy aggressive hustler type of approach. But I think one must try to envisage the other side of the table and approach with tact.

        I am very surprised the Jason Kanigan as the popular Sales Expert here has endorsed this some of these very dubious techniques.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by Iqball View Post

          Hello Jason, thanks for sharing the Dave Kurlan. Just finished listening and overall nothing special really.

          Some useful points and advisories on slower delivery on the initial cold call and not delivering the spiel straight off the shot of the bat.
          That is good.

          But, I strongly disagree with the how to leave effective voice mail advice given in the recording; the first message day 1 format is perfect, light and polite. That is all fine.

          But here is the point; leaving a voice message everyday for ten days straight ad nauseam to your prospect in a row! Are you kidding me??!! This will completely annoy the prospect. Dave Kurlan is saying the golden rule is "less is more" ? What he is actually advocating is "more is more" by way of daily voice mail version of spam! I know if I had the someone leaving me unsolicited messages everyday to call him back, I would think, oh it's that imbecile again and completely and fully expunge him from my memory forthwith.

          Not only that, Dave Kurlan on the 4th, 5th, 9th day suggests voicemail with choicest words such as is "need", "please" and "i am not good at this" _ (prospect will be thinking on hearing that one; yes my friend, you are definitely not good at this) This just comes across desperate and amateurish. And the other words, on the 10th day "you probably know who this is by now"? That is the killer because you now have the prospect thinking he is being stalked and running for the hills and hinterlands!

          Come on!

          Would not it be better and more refreshing to leave a short voicemail on first day, and then leave message on alternate days for e.g.

          Mon: Message
          Tue: Wait for Response
          Wed: Reminder Message
          Thurs. as Tues.
          Fri: Reminder Message

          So by pretty much end of week there is no response - move on to next prospect - end of the story.

          I believe it's a fine line. Yes of course some can take the more pushy aggressive hustler type of approach. But I think one must try to envisage the other side of the table and approach with tact.

          I am very surprised the Jason Kanigan as the popular Sales Expert here has endorsed this some of these very dubious techniques.
          The thing about interviewing people is that you get exposed to different points of view. It was an interview, not a debate. And if I interviewed Grant Cardone, I'd likely get another approach.

          The takeaway is that it takes many more attempts to reach prospects than you probably expect. You have to be persistent. Nearly every salesperson is not. And I completely understood his point of "Well, they didn't call me back again, so it must not be important," which was the reason for this kind of persistence. Whether you call every day or every other day--and my customers know exactly what I recommend--is not really relevant in the face of that.

          And for the record, Dave is doing much better than you or I. He has more experience and at a higher level than I do. If that is what he is recommending to real companies, I'm happy to hear about it.

          Listen to what he has to say about training--the calls salespeople are making are terrible, even with some training. It takes time and ongoing reinforcement of technique to develop skill.

          It takes time for me to book these interviews, record them, edit and post them. Nobody else is doing this for the forum. NOBODY. And I do it for free. Keep that in mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author kessinger11
          Originally Posted by Iqball View Post


          Would not it be better and more refreshing to leave a short voicemail on first day, and then leave message on alternate days for e.g.

          Mon: Message
          Tue: Wait for Response
          Wed: Reminder Message
          Thurs. as Tues.
          Fri: Reminder Message

          So by pretty much end of week there is no response - move on to next prospect - end of the story.
          I have used the following approach in the past:

          Day 1 -- leave voicemail

          Day 3 -- if call not returned, leave second voice mail

          Day 7 -- leave 3rd voicemail

          Day 15 -- leave 4th voicemail, maybe including something about taking the prospect off the list. If he still doesn't call back. I will call again in 3 months or 6 months, depedning on the niche.

          I would agree that leaving a VM every day for 10 straight days seems excessive, and also time consuming, when trying to prospect. Put yourself in the prospect's shoes. Would you want to get a VM from someone for 10 straight days?

          Another example: In my spare time I coach my son's baseball team. There is another baseball coach whom I've purchased an info product, a DVD, in the past, so I am on his mailing list. His info was valuable and I would consider purchasing another product from him. However, I usually read the subject line of his email, if that, and then hit delete, because he sends me an email EVERY FREAKIN DAY. It is very annoying. This coach has probably missed out on a few purchases from me because I am so annoyed with him.
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          • Profile picture of the author Iqball
            Originally Posted by kessinger11 View Post

            I have used the following approach in the past:

            Day 1 -- leave voicemail

            Day 3 -- if call not returned, leave second voice mail

            Day 7 -- leave 3rd voicemail

            Day 15 -- leave 4th voicemail, maybe including something about taking the prospect off the list. If he still doesn't call back. I will call again in 3 months or 6 months, depedning on the niche.

            I would agree that leaving a VM every day for 10 straight days seems excessive, and also time consuming, when trying to prospect. Put yourself in the prospect's shoes. Would you want to get a VM from someone for 10 straight days?

            Another example: In my spare time I coach my son's baseball team. There is another baseball coach whom I've purchased an info product, a DVD, in the past, so I am on his mailing list. His info was valuable and I would consider purchasing another product from him. However, I usually read the subject line of his email, if that, and then hit delete, because he sends me an email EVERY FREAKIN DAY. It is very annoying. This coach has probably missed out on a few purchases from me because I am so annoyed with him.

            Exactly my point! Give the business owner some breathing space. And btw
            I bet you wanted to take the baseball bat to that coach also. Lol.

            Jason it is all fine and dandy to explore diversity of approaches and share
            in the community in this interesting thread for warriors to chime in.

            Please try to read exactly what I posted above, where I give some kudos to overall strategies
            /approaches presented in the interview you conducted.

            However the illusion is shattered by this 10 day continuous voice mail strategy.
            I just don't buy it. Period. In my mind that is persistence in the wrong direction.
            The top selling expert in the world could not sell that to me.

            Business owners are already in pressure cooker to run all their business processes
            on daily basis without dealing with daily badgering of voice mails from "some & same person".
            As the op above stated, constant emails everyday by some marketer annoys most of us.

            But fine, it's here to share and someone can go give it a try it out.
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