22 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
22 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

First time out, and I picked a "winner" (NOT!)...

by TimothyW
18 replies
Or maybe it's more accurate to say, a winner picked me.

I got my first website design client. She was on a strict deadline to get this done.
She was a real pain in the butt. She claimed she sent me stuff, but she never did -- then she'd get upset with me, implying that I really did get the stuff, but lost it, etc.
Basically real judgmental + snotty -- even when things were her fault.

Note: I did NOT get any money up front. I wanted to get through this, just so I could get my first job/client.

So anyway, I get the site done on time. I send her an invoice (paypal) for what I think is a very reasonable price (six page site - $250).

I'm thinking, well I held up my end of the bargain -- she'll just click a few buttons and pay me via paypal.

It turns out she says she'll pay me right after I give over the WP password to the site -- WHICH I DID (trusting her).

Then silence for several hours (no further contact from her).

So I'm sittin' here thinking I just gave her the keys, and I'm left holding the bag.

THEN she texts saying she'll pay me after I give her the FTP (I'm not even sure I know what she means by that, and there's a chance SHE doesn't even know what she means by that (sounds like it's something another person told her she needs so she can have the website totally)!!

THAT'S when the mental alarm went off in my head -- I am NOT gonna give her next (final) request until she (friggin) pays me! So, I tell her that in a text (kindly!)

Now -- more radio silence from her -- it's been many hours.

So what's your sense? Was she out to swindle me from the beginning? Will she be paying me at all / ever?

I don't understand why she's not cheerfully and immediately holding up her side of the bargain? What could the reluctance be, besides "I'm not gonna pay you at all, suckah!!!"???

Please advise.

Thanks!

-- TW
#picked #time #winner
  • Profile picture of the author copymyideas
    Do you have terms of business outlined on your website or attached to your email correspondence with this client?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9255865].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Originally Posted by copymyideas View Post

      Do you have terms of business outlined on your website or attached to your email correspondence with this client?
      Ummm - nope. I'm doing the "ready, fire, aim" approach. After I get some traction (if any), I'll dot all the i's and cross the t's.

      -- TW
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9255870].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Proof that whomever you learned the ready, fire, aim, approach is full of complete crap! Even more so if you're new!

        Create her a author or contributor account and send her the log in details. Keep the main admin account for yourself until she pays you.
        If she doesn't pay you delete the site and learn from the experience.

        Don't work with snotty bitchy business owners for any amount of money.

        So you don't know what FTP is?

        Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

        Ummm - nope. I'm doing the "ready, fire, aim" approach. After I get some traction (if any), I'll dot all the i's and cross the t's.

        -- TW
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256070].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author copymyideas
    I would strongly suggest doing this before starting any more work. My terms have in them the right to charge interest (at quite a high rate) for invoices that are not paid within 14 days of issue. One little reminder to any late payers of this is usually enough to get the bill paid within hours!

    As far as this client is concerned do you still have access to change or remove the site? I would suggest this sort of action as a last resort until payment is made
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256032].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    You have to get at least half the money up front every time before you start any work for a client...that's the lesson on this one.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256118].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    Or maybe it's more accurate to say, a winner picked me.

    I got my first website design client. She was on a strict deadline to get this done.
    She was a real pain in the butt. She claimed she sent me stuff, but she never did -- then she'd get upset with me, implying that I really did get the stuff, but lost it, etc.
    Basically real judgmental + snotty -- even when things were her fault.

    Note: I did NOT get any money up front. I wanted to get through this, just so I could get my first job/client.

    So anyway, I get the site done on time. I send her an invoice (paypal) for what I think is a very reasonable price (six page site - $250).

    I'm thinking, well I held up my end of the bargain -- she'll just click a few buttons and pay me via paypal.

    It turns out she says she'll pay me right after I give over the WP password to the site -- WHICH I DID (trusting her).

    Then silence for several hours (no further contact from her).

    So I'm sittin' here thinking I just gave her the keys, and I'm left holding the bag.

    THEN she texts saying she'll pay me after I give her the FTP (I'm not even sure I know what she means by that, and there's a chance SHE doesn't even know what she means by that (sounds like it's something another person told her she needs so she can have the website totally)!!

    THAT'S when the mental alarm went off in my head -- I am NOT gonna give her next (final) request until she (friggin) pays me! So, I tell her that in a text (kindly!)

    Now -- more radio silence from her -- it's been many hours.

    So what's your sense? Was she out to swindle me from the beginning? Will she be paying me at all / ever?

    I don't understand why she's not cheerfully and immediately holding up her side of the bargain? What could the reluctance be, besides "I'm not gonna pay you at all, suckah!!!"???

    Please advise.

    Thanks!

    -- TW
    The name-calling (snotty) and blaming of others is not helpful to you. YOU created this situation; YOU allowed it to happen. Take responsibility for it.

    Always have an admin account that you can change passwords with. If it's your property--your website, your domain, because the client hasn't paid for it yet--you can call the host to reset the password for you if you get locked out.

    Get at least 50% payment up front, and make sure you are satisifed with doing the work for that 50% if that's what you get stuck with.

    Choose your clients more carefully in the future. You choose your clients, whether you think you do or not.
    Signature
    >> How To Grow Your Online Business [FREE Training Video, No Opt-In, from 10+ Year Vet]

    >> For Agency Founders: The Fast Shortcut To Selling SEO, Leadgen, Webdesign & Other Services
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256124].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Thanks for all the advice.
    I'll update this thread if/when she pays / doesn't pay.

    Fingers crossed.

    -- TW
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256157].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Tim,

      We attract the type of clients we feel we deserve. Think about that one.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256596].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Here's a tip when hiring clients... Hire SLOW and FIRE fast.

    And, Jason is right. You created the problem rushing to get your first client. If you never get paid at least you learned a valuable lesson.

    Cut your losses and Keep Moving Forward!
    Signature

    David Hunter | Duke of Marketing
    www.DukeOfMarketing.com
    www.BibleAndFriendsYouTube.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Change the WP admin info back so you have access to it. Do NOT give her FTP information.... it is on a test server or is it on her actual domain? If it is on the domain, take the site down with a message that says: This website is unavailable because "Business name" hasn't paid their bill.

    I wouldn't even accept payment from her at this point... I'd email her and say you have by the end of the day or I'm filing a complaint with the BBB and taking the website down.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256808].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Change the WP admin info back so you have access to it. Do NOT give her FTP information.... it is on a test server or is it on her actual domain? If it is on the domain, take the site down with a message that says: This website is unavailable because "Business name" hasn't paid their bill.

      I wouldn't even accept payment from her at this point... I'd email her and say you have by the end of the day or I'm filing a complaint with the BBB and taking the website down.
      It's been another several hours + still no payment. She has already changed the WP admin password, so I cannot get control of that again.

      I think I will take the site down like you suggest.
      I have to be sure I can put it back up with a few clicks - I don't want to really delete it.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256994].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

        It's been another several hours + still no payment. She has already changed the WP admin password, so I cannot get control of that again.

        I think I will take the site down like you suggest.
        I have to be sure I can put it back up with a few clicks - I don't want to really delete it.
        No need to delete.

        Just call the host, get the password set back for you...(or use phpMyAdmin which I forgot about, but was mentioned below)

        ...create the non-payment announcement page like Nameless suggested, and redirect the home page to that. Simple.

        You can also get the PC Hide Pages plugin and hide all the existing pages so nobody can see them. If she pays later, you turn that off and they'll be visible again.
        Signature
        >> How To Grow Your Online Business [FREE Training Video, No Opt-In, from 10+ Year Vet]

        >> For Agency Founders: The Fast Shortcut To Selling SEO, Leadgen, Webdesign & Other Services
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257232].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Brooks
    Log in via phpmyadmin, change the admins email to yours, reset the password, you now have access to the WP site you created.

    Hope you get paid, i know how sucky you must feel (Been in your boat before!)
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257245].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      It's been another several hours + still no payment. She has already changed the WP admin password, so I cannot get control of that again.

      I think I will take the site down like you suggest.
      I have to be sure I can put it back up with a few clicks - I don't want to really delete it.
      You can change it through the database within 1 minute.

      Originally Posted by Alex Brooks View Post

      Log in via phpmyadmin, change the admins email to yours, reset the password, you now have access to the WP site you created.

      Hope you get paid, i know how sucky you must feel (Been in your boat before!)
      Yeah, or you can create an md5 hash of whatever password you want while you're at it.



      If you have access to the cpanel and host, then its all yours... you can access whatever you want. If you need help, I can regain access for you if you want, just PM me your skype info.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author chaotic squid
    Sounds like a learning experience. I'd recommend that you stop promoting yourself as a web designer, because your giving the rest of us a bad name and you clearly don't know what you're doing.

    Take some time (maybe a few months or even longer) and learn web design first. How can you not know what FTP is?

    Some other tips:
    Stay away from clients who are in a hurry, or at least charge them a huge premium. When people are rushed things get sloppy and people have shorter fuses. Be ready to deliver, as your reputation is on the line

    ALWAYS get money upfront. Usually if it's less than like $800 I take 100% right away. Anything larger I do 50% upfront and the rest when the project is almost complete. I'll be 90% done and ask for the rest before I put in the finishing touches and release any files.

    Never (try not to) get into a fight with a client. Sounds like you escalated the problem even more. Document all communication. There's even project management services that help document/make communication easier for projects and teams.

    Lastly...
    A six page site for $250? dirt cheap prices like that are only going to attract people who will treat you like dirt.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257287].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Good advice -- thanks.

      Yes, I do know what FTP is -- just not in the context she was using it in.
      As I said, I don't even think she knew what she meant in that context.

      About not advertising myself as a web designer...

      Ummm, what did you say you were when you first started out?

      It's a "chicken or egg" thing. I choose to do it this way -- plus all my ads (craigslist) clearly say that I am just starting out, etc. etc.

      So, I am not misrepresenting "the industry." I am not putting myself out there as an expert at all!

      Hey -- gotta start somewhere.

      I'm taking action -- and tryin' to get traction!!

      -- TW


      Originally Posted by chaotic squid View Post

      Sounds like a learning experience. I'd recommend that you stop promoting yourself as a web designer, because your giving the rest of us a bad name and you clearly don't know what you're doing.

      Take some time (maybe a few months or even longer) and learn web design first. How can you not know what FTP is?

      Some other tips:
      Stay away from clients who are in a hurry, or at least charge them a huge premium. When people are rushed things get sloppy and people have shorter fuses. Be ready to deliver, as your reputation is on the line

      ALWAYS get money upfront. Usually if it's less than like $800 I take 100% right away. Anything larger I do 50% upfront and the rest when the project is almost complete. I'll be 90% done and ask for the rest before I put in the finishing touches and release any files.

      Never (try not to) get into a fight with a client. Sounds like you escalated the problem even more. Document all communication. There's even project management services that help document/make communication easier for projects and teams.

      Lastly...
      A six page site for $250? dirt cheap prices like that are only going to attract people who will treat you like dirt.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257385].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author chaotic squid
        Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

        Ummm, what did you say you were when you first started out?

        It's a "chicken or egg" thing. I choose to do it this way -- plus all my ads (craigslist) clearly say that I am just starting out, etc. etc.

        So, I am not misrepresenting "the industry." I am not putting myself out there as an expert at all!

        Hey -- gotta start somewhere.

        I'm taking action -- and tryin' to get traction!!

        -- TW
        It's true that we all have to start somewhere. I do give you credit for taking action. However, when someone pays you for a service you have to conduct yourself professionally which means knowing how to properly ask for payment, document communication/files exchanged, have a contract in place, be in control, be aware of deadlines, being able to answer questions, etc...

        I started by building a bunch of sites myself, with my own time and money. That way I could improve my skills and if I messed up, no foul. It's true that my first few paid projects were lower priced, but I knew that I deserved to get paid more than peanuts, so I never quoted anyone less than $600 for a site.

        It's true that the more you charge, the more respect you get from your clients.

        My point is...your new, so charge what you're worth but not so low that you attract the bottom of the barrel clients who will walk all over you.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257444].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I put up a gigantic "SUSPENDED" pic on the front page.

    She ended up paying after all. (reluctantly)

    Also -- I should point out -- that suggestion of putting up a banner saying the site was suspended because of lack of payment, is not good. I'm pretty sure there are bad legal ramifications if you announce publicly that someone didn't pay -- even if it's true! -- so I just put "suspended."
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9260025].message }}

Trending Topics