Attacking Competitors in Ads

32 replies
I own a local service company. I have a national competitor that has been written up by a local newspaper and covered by the local news for ripping off customers. I've actually found dozens of news articles about them nationwide.

Unlike us, they don't actually have a local office, warehouse to stock product, a showroom, trucks or real employees. They use tracking numbers that go to a call center. Most of their ads use different names because they get so many bad reviews and have been deindexed by the BBB. They have local subs that do the work for a percentage of the job. I have hired a few of their former subs and the stories of how they rip these guys off is hideous. When they come to us these guys have very little training and no certifications. The problem is that this company doesn't pay these guys anything unless they sell a certain amount on each job. It's over $300, and this is impossible without doing some underhanded things to customers. They were caught here on tape breaking things in peoples homes so that they could replace the parts, so that the bill was more than $300. This companies' practices seem to be hurting the industry as a whole.

My question is: In print, I run against these guys in Valpak and Money Mailer. Should I address this directly in my ads?
#ads #attacking #competitors
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Do the general buying public know about this dark side?

    We need to get to understand what they already know
    before we can come up with the right approach.

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      Do the general buying public know about this dark side?

      We need to get to understand what they already know
      before we can come up with the right approach.

      Best,
      Ewen
      A lot of the general public doesn't really know. This particular company generally copies my offers and runs ads next to mine. That's why I have a hard time setting myself apart from them in this medium.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        A lot of the general public doesn't really know. This particular company generally copies my offers and runs ads next to mine. That's why I have a hard time setting myself apart from them in this medium.
        Cool.

        A starting point can be to come up with a service guarantee that they
        wouldn't dare match.

        I've done a $1,000 payout for non-performance in a previous business
        I owned. Nobody dared do that.

        Then put a copyright symbol and notice on every ad
        so you are legally protected.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Cool.

          A starting point can be to come up with a service guarantee that they
          wouldn't dare match.

          I've done a $1,000 payout for non-performance in a previous business
          I owned. Nobody dared do that.

          Then put a copyright symbol and notice on every ad
          so you are legally protected.

          Best,
          Ewen
          This is an excellent idea. I've just never been able to create a guarantee that, Frankly, I could honor. I know some local heat and air guys that promise service in an hour, or you don't pay. There is no way we could do this. We sometimes book out for weeks.

          I could do a price guarantee, but I don't much like this because we are not the cheapest folks in town.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

            This is an excellent idea. I've just never been able to create a guarantee that, Frankly, I could honor. I know some local heat and air guys that promise service in an hour, or you don't pay. There is no way we could do this. We sometimes book out for weeks.

            I could do a price guarantee, but I don't much like this because we are not the cheapest folks in town.
            Another area to work on is the trust factor.

            By adding brand images like BBB, big name media like TV and Radio,
            current member of your trade association, only hire certified staff,
            member of trade association, Yelp reviews, testimonials.

            Best,
            Ewen
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            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Another area to work on is the trust factor.

              By adding brand images like BBB, big name media like TV and Radio,
              current member of your trade association, only hire certified staff,
              member of trade association, Yelp reviews, testimonials.

              Best,
              Ewen
              On our home page sidebar we have:

              BBB accredited
              Angie's List Super Service Award Winner
              Links to our social pages
              Testimonials
              Links to our company google plus page(reviews here)
              Links to our yahoo company page (reviews here)
              Employee Bios
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                On our home page sidebar we have:

                BBB accredited
                Angie's List Super Service Award Winner
                Links to our social pages
                Testimonials
                Links to our company google plus page(reviews here)
                Links to our yahoo company page (reviews here)
                Employee Bios
                Other people have experienced the same ad going into
                another media and giving different results too.

                Have you tested between going to website and not
                for call to action?

                Best,
                Ewen
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                • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                  Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                  Other people have experienced the same ad going into
                  another media and giving different results too.

                  Have you tested between going to website and not
                  for call to action?

                  Best,
                  Ewen
                  No Ewen, I have never tried that. That only scares me because our worst leads come from web forms. Our high converting customers come from phone calls. We try to get them to call us in our print ads.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                    Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                    No Ewen, I have never tried that. That only scares me because our worst leads come from web forms. Our high converting customers come from phone calls. We try to get them to call us in our print ads.
                    What I'm going through a long list on a checklist as to what maybe going wrong...
                    sending them to a website rather than going for the ph call would be one.

                    Best,
                    Ewen
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                    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                      What I'm going through a long list on a checklist as to what maybe going wrong...
                      sending them to a website rather than going for the ph call would be one.

                      Best,
                      Ewen
                      There is nothing going wrong. I'm looking for improvements. Ewen, you always add value to the conversation, so I do appreciate your input. It's much appreciated.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                        There is nothing going wrong. I'm looking for improvements. Ewen, you always add value to the conversation, so I do appreciate your input. It's much appreciated.
                        Sorry, wrong word "wrong".

                        I should of said improvements.

                        Best,
                        Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author WhipStrip
    I would say no. If you conduct your business the right way, perform work on time and as agreed, handle customer issues quickly and with integrity your business will take care of itself.

    Bashing them, when the customer does not know the depth of their issues as you do, will only come across as petty...
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by WhipStrip View Post

      I would say no. If you conduct your business the right way, perform work on time and as agreed, handle customer issues quickly and with integrity your business will take care of itself.

      Bashing them, when the customer does not know the depth of their issues as you do, will only come across as petty...
      I understand that this may be a bad approach if not done with some tact. As I stated before, this company uses my offers as fast as I can create them. They even created a Microsite with my company name.

      Btw, we do about 5,000 projects a year, so our business does extremely well. This is more an issue with swinging back after someone has struck you.
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      • Profile picture of the author umc
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        Btw, we do about 5,000 projects a year, so our business does extremely well. This is more an issue with swinging back after someone has struck you.
        Just beware. In sports the guy that retaliates is the guy that always gets caught and that gets the penalty. You have a good thing going and don't want to detract from it by getting into a fight for all to see. They obviously are ready to be petty, and you don't know that they might not up the ante even farther than they already have. I understand the desire to punch back though. Those people sound horrible.
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      • Profile picture of the author mojo1
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        They even created a Microsite with my company name.
        You might be able to actually retrieve a snapshot of the site they created with your company's name using these websites: screenshots.com and https://archive.org/web/
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Get out if valpak and start sending your own postcards direct to consumers. Don't play your competitors game.

    They use your company name on a website? Go talk with a lawyer about that one... They may be able to do something for you... Or... Use it to your advantage.

    Take your anger and transform it into marketing energy and kick some competitor butt!
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleTA View Post

      Get out if valpak and start sending your own postcards direct to consumers. Don't play your competitors game.

      They use your company name on a website? Go talk with a lawyer about that one... They may be able to do something for you... Or... Use it to your advantage.

      Take your anger and transform it into marketing energy and kick some competitor butt!
      I've taken offers that I've run in my print ads and placed those on large postcards for EDDM. To date, I've done 6 EDDM campaigns and mailed to a list once. I've never come close to making a return on my investment.

      My last campaign of 5000 postcards only got 3 leads and 2 sales. I did not even gross my initial investment. I have 3 magazines that I run ads in for the same cost. Full pages to 120k homes. Each pull 20-30 leads a month. I actually paid $1900 for a magazine that these same offers got 46 leads and the ad only cost me $1800.

      Thanks for the response. I appreciate it very much, but I've tested postcards, and they just don't give me a return.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I agree with what American Muscle has said.
    Get a lawyer if they are using your business name.
    If they are, and getting clients, you could have grounds for a lawsuit for loss of wages.
    If they are trashing your company, you could have grounds for a slander lawsuit.
    Regardless, talk to a qualified attorney.
    Also, get out of ValPak. Use direct response in your marketing.
    Only mail to targeted prospects, don't blanket the city with offers to people that aren't going to call anyway.
    If they can use your offers, make your offers unique and trademark them.

    The closest I would get to trashing them, is just saying something like... "As always, do your research before contacting us, or any (niche) business"

    But, I would be more focused on being unique and not giving them the opportunity to copy you by going direct.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Lessard
    Great advice from Ewen!
    I would also say the following.

    You mentioned you are doing well. Do you know EXACTLY why you are doing well?

    I mean do you track, test and truly understand why customers are choosing to buy from you over that other company when they make that choice? If not find out. Ask them.
    When you know do EVERYTHING you can to amplify that reason.

    Also you can differentiate yourself without directly attacking them.
    Things like "Make sure to buy from a BBB accredited firm" etc...

    Be VERY careful though. If they are playing dirty and notice you taking pot shots it will take them 30 minutes online to post total lies about you on ripoff sites and it can totally ruin you. Contrary to what you may think there is absolutely no way to have that stuff removed once its up.
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by plessard View Post

      Great advice from Ewen!
      I would also say the following.

      You mentioned you are doing well. Do you know EXACTLY why you are doing well?

      I mean do you track, test and truly understand why customers are choosing to buy from you over that other company when they make that choice? If not find out. Ask them.
      When you know do EVERYTHING you can to amplify that reason.

      Also you can differentiate yourself without directly attacking them.
      Things like "Make sure to buy from a BBB accredited firm" etc...

      Be VERY careful though. If they are playing dirty and notice you taking pot shots it will take them 30 minutes online to post total lies about you on ripoff sites and it can totally ruin you. Contrary to what you may think there is absolutely no way to have that stuff removed once its up.
      This is a great question. I would like to think that it's because we do something exceptional. The truth is that we pick up a lot of work because other people just don't answer their phones or follow up with their customers the right way. My company was started in 2001, and I bought the place in 2009. We've grown about 500%. Other than doing a hell of a lot of marketing, we just do a great job of converting leads in to cash. We don't have non revenue producing jobs in the company. Even the person that does the billing has incentives on sales production. Everyone is sales trained and their ability to up sell greatly effects their income.

      1. We answer our phones, even if it's 2am. The phones are forwarded to me after hours.
      2. We run offers and specials everywhere we can find.
      3. Our entire staff is sales trained and gets incentives for performance.
      4. We track leads and conversions aggressively in our CRM.
      5. We set sales goals and know what is expected from everyone to meet those goals.
      6. We follow up until one of us dies.
      7. We always look for places to test new ads. We cut non performers.

      The best thing that we did during the recession was buy up phone numbers for businesses in our niche as they folded. I've got 4 or 5 numbers remote call forwarded in to my office by doing this. This is the easiest money a local company will ever make.

      If you are looking for ways that I have differentiated the business. I've tried from day 1. I have never found a way. Every distinction we own is shared by another business in my niche.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        I would never mention any of my competitors in my ads. Why would you tell a prospects that you even have competitors?

        I've had people call me, because a competitor mentioned my name in an ad (in a bad way, of course). And they just had to check me out. Yes, I've made sales that way.

        Never, never, never mention a competitor in an ad. In any way.

        When you mention a competitor, you are spending money...advertising them.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I would never mention any of my competitors in my ads. Why would you tell a prospects that you even have competitors?

          I've had people call me, because a competitor mentioned my name in an ad (in a bad way, of course). And they just had to check me out. Yes, I've made sales that way.

          Never, never, never mention a competitor in an ad. In any way.

          When you mention a competitor, you are spending money...advertising them.
          I agree when it comes to print, but a good way to get some sales from people who never would have heard from you is mentioning competitors in PPC. You're usually able to get a good CPC and get attention from their branded keywords. Great way to fill up your funnel if they're a bigger brand than you.

          In any other form of advertising, I agree with you.
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  • Profile picture of the author shelialhodges
    There are many ways attacking competitor , but does not main you will doing bad to them all you need tell the market what is the advantages you have even not mentioning your competitor. if you have better services i am sure your business will be success.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
    I've worked with a lot of HVAC guys.

    There should be no reason that you can't turn a profit on EDDM. Offer a $99 tune-up. 1 in 16 will turn into new installs.

    Regarding positioning...

    If you are careful and persistent then you can become known as the Honest HVAC guy. Nobody trusts anybody in your industry.

    I wrote a report on how to legally steal repair and install calls from your competitor - if you want to take a look, pm me.
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

      I've worked with a lot of HVAC guys.

      There should be no reason that you can't turn a profit on EDDM. Offer a $99 tune-up. 1 in 16 will turn into new installs.

      Regarding positioning...

      If you are careful and persistent then you can become known as the Honest HVAC guy. Nobody trusts anybody in your industry.

      I wrote a report on how to legally steal repair and install calls from your competitor - if you want to take a look, pm me.
      I'm not in the HVAC business. All of my EDDMs had a $69 tune up offer. At the clip that EDDM produces leads I would have to spend $6000 to get 16 leads. If 1 turned in to an install I'd be in real trouble. Our average install is only $1100. Why spend .30 per home when I can put the same offers elsewhere for 1.2 cents each? Ive never once had any of my magazines or coupon books perform as poorly as EDDM. My print ads get 1 million impressions per month. This stuff has been tested, and EDDM gets trounced every time I run it with identical offers. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        I'm not in the HVAC business. All of my EDDMs had a $69 tune up offer. At the clip that EDDM produces leads I would have to spend $6000 to get 16 leads. If 1 turned in to an install I'd be in real trouble. Our average install is only $1100. Why spend .30 per home when I can put the same offers elsewhere for 1.2 cents each? Ive never once had any of my magazines or coupon books perform as poorly as EDDM. My print ads get 1 million impressions per month. This stuff has been tested, and EDDM gets trounced every time I run it with identical offers. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
        Well, without looking at your copy we are really flying blind.

        That's a really low response rate.

        My guess is that you sent to either the wrong neighborhoods or the copy was bad?

        Where are you located?
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        • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
          Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

          Well, without looking at your copy we are really flying blind.

          That's a really low response rate.

          My guess is that you sent to either the wrong neighborhoods or the copy was bad?

          Where are you located?
          I'm located in an extremely high income area, and the neighborhoods that I focus on are surely the right market. The copy that I put out can't be that bad. These same offers pull over 300 new leads a month.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    I've seen Rob's ads and they're pretty good. The value he's getting from the reduced cost of advertising in shared mailings is definitely worth focusing on more than solo mailings. This is exactly why I love shared mailings. If he was advertising on a shared 9x12 to even a third of the people his magazine ads are going to, I think he'd outperform the magazines, but unfortunately he doesn't have that option.

    Rob, here are some suggestions:

    1. If you know that the other company uses subs and you don't... try weaving into your ad that you carry workers comp and have employees, and that the customer should always ask for proof before hiring anyone. If someone is looking at both your ad and the competitors, this could be the solution to getting the business over them. Those springs are dangerous and can scare the sh** out of people to know some no comp subcontractor could be injured and the homeowner held liable. It may take some thought to work this into an ad (it's easy to work in the pitch though of course) but I bet it will pay off.

    In order to prevent that company from taking business from you, particularly when running ads together, you have to find your strongest advantage that will push the prospect to you. Something bulletproof.

    Fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain, so instead of trying to promote better service or quality (which doesn't mean much these days), hit them hard with some fear.

    If you were to look at it very simply, most people would pick an installer who promoted workers comp, real employees and no subcontractors rather than someone who promotes a showroom and trucks and uniforms.

    If you truly have this advantage, you have a HUGE advantage and should prominently make it a part of your ad in addition to special offers. Just keep in mind that high quality service claims mean nothing in an ad. All it does is make you look more expensive. Those things ONLY matter after the sale.

    No one is going to think "oh jeez these guys have actual employees they must be highest price in town!"

    But if you come off in your ads as some mega-professional outfit a lot will see your competitor as a better 'value'. So shift gears and go for the things that are critical to the prospect, but that your competitor can't deliver on.

    2. Start mailing to your customer list and start doing radius mailings. Get b&a pictures of jobs and get them on postcards with a super special offer just for neighbors. Send these EDDM to the carrier route(s) you're installing on. Order 5k-10k of these and just mail them out as you do jobs.
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      I've seen Rob's ads and they're pretty good. The value he's getting from the reduced cost of advertising in shared mailings is definitely worth focusing on more than solo mailings. This is exactly why I love shared mailings. If he was advertising on a shared 9x12 to even a third of the people his magazine ads are going to, I think he'd outperform the magazines, but unfortunately he doesn't have that option.

      Rob, here are some suggestions:

      1. If you know that the other company uses subs and you don't... try weaving into your ad that you carry workers comp and have employees, and that the customer should always ask for proof before hiring anyone. If someone is looking at both your ad and the competitors, this could be the solution to getting the business over them. Those springs are dangerous and can scare the sh** out of people to know some no comp subcontractor could be injured and the homeowner held liable. It may take some thought to work this into an ad (it's easy to work in the pitch though of course) but I bet it will pay off.

      In order to prevent that company from taking business from you, particularly when running ads together, you have to find your strongest advantage that will push the prospect to you. Something bulletproof.

      Fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain, so instead of trying to promote better service or quality (which doesn't mean much these days), hit them hard with some fear.

      If you were to look at it very simply, most people would pick an installer who promoted workers comp, real employees and no subcontractors rather than someone who promotes a showroom and trucks and uniforms.

      If you truly have this advantage, you have a HUGE advantage and should prominently make it a part of your ad in addition to special offers. Just keep in mind that high quality service claims mean nothing in an ad. All it does is make you look more expensive. Those things ONLY matter after the sale.

      No one is going to think "oh jeez these guys have actual employees they must be highest price in town!"

      But if you come off in your ads as some mega-professional outfit a lot will see your competitor as a better 'value'. So shift gears and go for the things that are critical to the prospect, but that your competitor can't deliver on.

      2. Start mailing to your customer list and start doing radius mailings. Get b&a pictures of jobs and get them on postcards with a super special offer just for neighbors. Send these EDDM to the carrier route(s) you're installing on. Order 5k-10k of these and just mail them out as you do jobs.
      These are all good ideas. Is there a way to personalize these EDDM postcards for each area without it breaking my budget?

      Such as, putting the name of the neighborhood in the headline when I mail to that zone.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Sounds to me this is what your ads could be about. All the things you DON'T DO that your competition is known for and which scares or concerns consumers since as you say, "This companies' practices seem to be hurting the industry as a whole".

    Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

    they don't actually have a local office... or real employees.
    They use tracking numbers that go to a call center.
    Most of their ads use different names because they get so many bad reviews and have been deindexed by the BBB.
    They have local subs that do the work for a percentage of the job. I have hired a few of their former subs and the stories of how they rip these guys off is hideous.
    When they come to us these guys have very little training and no certifications.
    this company doesn't pay these guys anything unless they sell a certain amount on each job. It's over $300, and this is impossible without doing some underhanded things to customers.
    They were caught here on tape breaking things in peoples homes so that they could replace the parts, so that the bill was more than $300.
    Especially that last one about breaking things to run up the consumer's bill.

    The rip off stories could probably be a few ads in a series.

    This would all be under the umbrella of providing consumer education, no?

    So you could run an ad without mentioning names and just citing these concerns that have been in the press, right?

    And with that, a guarantee that's NOT going to happen with your guys?

    Because you're on a mission to do the right thing, just because it's the right thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      One way to differentiate yourself is to come up with
      a proprietary X Point methodology on the way you do things.

      When you break something down into the steps you take,
      prospects see that the outcome doesn't happen by chance,
      therefore there seems less risk in taking you on compared to the rest.

      Advertise it and copyright it.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        One way to differentiate yourself is to come up with
        a proprietary X Point methodology on the way you do things.

        When you break something down into the steps you take,
        prospects see that the outcome doesn't happen by chance,
        therefore there seems less risk in taking you on compared to the rest.

        Advertise it and copyright it.

        Best,
        Ewen
        Ewen, I respect you a lot and there's a lot of things you post on that I really don't care about, but this post right here is in my opinion one of the most valuable things I've seen you post, and maybe the most valuable thing I've seen on this forum.

        I would love to see you go into more detail or show some case studies in a separate thread if you care to expand on that. I think a lot of people would gain value from that.
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