THE PRICE IS TO DAMN HIGH!

10 years ago

Price IS directly related to self-esteem...both the buyer's and the seller's.

We as the seller have control over our own, and filtering for the right buyer's.

I will share a "secret" about price that is so obvious people don't ever think of it:

The people who have money have money.

The people who don't...don't.

But who do most of the sellers in this forum go after?

...

I'll say it again, a different way. For someone who has money (a thriving business, good cash flow, dough in the bank), paying you a decent sum in exchange for your expertise is EASY. They simply move the money from their bank account to yours.

For someone who doesn't have money (a lousy business, nonexistent cash flow, no dollars in the bank), paying you is a struggle that needs to be figured out. They rob from Peter to pay Paul. They gamble with this decision. Their last hope and roll of the dice is you.

Stop dealing with crappy businesses and inept business owners. It's that simple. I did.

Struggling prospects have too many problems. This idea of "I'll fix them, and take 20% of the gross of their increase!" is a pipe dream.

Take a struggling bar with a $300,000/year revenue. Behind with their suppliers and creditors. Always churning through staff. Not sure how to promote effectively or deliver the simple result of a fun night out for their customers.

Along you come. EVEN IF you really can help turn things around--and you probably can't, because the issue is likely with the owner, who is almost assuredly lazy, disorganized and wants something for nothing OR ELSE they would have figured it out by now--and let's say you get them a 20% bump in income...that's only $60K.

Where do you think that $60K will go, exactly?

Not to you.

It's already spoken for. That money needs to go to the suppliers and creditors. You won't see it.

Take a booming furniture store with $2 million/year revenue. Solid fulfillment, great products, competent, stable staff. An owner who is involved, able and you don't have to educate about marketing...they already know what to do.

They can easily afford your additional expertise. You swiftly get them a 20% bump in income. That's $400K. Pretty quick payback on your services, huh? And you can comfortably charge more, because the size of the problem you're solving is bigger than the pub's. Nobody has any issues paying you. There's lots left over for profit.

I'd like to share a final thought about price. Good prospects value competent expertise. When they find someone they can rely on to delegate and carry out a task--any task, really--you can hear them mumble, "THANK GOODNESS...SOMEONE I CAN TRUST TO DO THIS." There, right there, is value beyond the problem-solving skill you bring to the situation. In other words, these business owners will happily pay for the privilege of working with someone they don't have to handhold.

By filtering for the right prospects and using the Monetizing the Problem technique, I never run into the price objection.

Maybe the real reason many people here have trouble with price is they're not really competent at delivering a product or service...? Leaping from thing to thing every month in hope of finding the magic bullet? Could that be where the seller's self-esteem and connected Price problems lie? Not a popular thing to say, but that never stops me. Niche down, stick with it, and watch your price rise.

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mak25 10 years ago

Great post Jason. You hit the nail on the head.
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globalpro

10 years ago

I started out offering WP websites for $500 because that is what the local market was used to paying. I figured out after doing a few, that I wasn't charging enough.

Not a self-esteem issue, just didn't know any better.

Where they were/are doing a 5-6 page HTML site, I was/am doing a lot more.

WP adaptive desktop with built-in mobile version
Custom graphics
schema optimized plugins - address, hours and testimonials
on page SEO - content, images, videos
site maps and analytics (create a Gmail account to do this)

I threw in more than that to get the work, which I don't do any more, but the above takes a lot of time and effort. And, since my name is on it, I won't sacrifice the quality or excellence I do things with.

After a couple of sites, I figured out I could make more money, with less work, if I got a job at WalMart.

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

I'd like to share a final thought about price. Good prospects value competent expertise. When they find someone they can rely on to delegate and carry out a task--any task, really--you can hear them mumble, "THANK GOODNESS...SOMEONE I CAN TRUST TO DO THIS." There, right there, is value beyond the problem-solving skill you bring to the situation. In other words, these business owners will happily pay for the privilege of working with someone they don't have to handhold.

This is exactly the conclusion I came to and how I have started pricing what I have been offering all along. Am a lot happier and has opened the door to do more consulting for marketing a business and getting paid what I feel I am worth..

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

Let's consider this an objection.

'The price is too high" is a general statement that really means something specific....For example, it can really mean....
"I don't have the money right now to buy this"
"I can buy it cheaper somewhere else"
"I always complain about price as a bargaining tactic"
"I just don't want to buy it, and can't think of a better objection"
"I don't like you personally"
"I don't want this badly enough"
"You haven't shown me a good enough return"
"I was just quoted a lower price yesterday, and this looks like the same thing"

To be fair, I don't think I've heard this as an objection in the last 5 years.

But if I did, I would just say the end of "The price is too damn high!"..

I would say "Too high?"...and wait them out. They will likely become more specific, or you'll see that it's simply a stall.

One thing I would do is talk about price before you get too deep into a presentation..

It's impossible to hear the price at the beginning....let you go through the presentation...and then say "Your price it too damn high".

They may come up with something different, but not that specific objection.

And as Jason eluded to in his post. You create price resistance. There wasn't any before you walked in the door. The only exception I can think of is if you are selling a commodity , that the buyer is very familiar with...and your offer is not different in any way.

In which case, you haven't done your job.
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sdentrepreneur

10 years ago

I am doubling my prices because of Jason Kanigan !!! Then I will fly him to San Diego for a JNO !!! James Night Out !!! LOL...you know you wanna be in my pictures with the girls....

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

Price IS directly related to self-esteem...both the buyer's and the seller's.

We as the seller have control over our own, and filtering for the right buyer's.

I will share a "secret" about price that is so obvious people don't ever think of it:

The people who have money have money.

The people who don't...don't.

But who do most of the sellers in this forum go after?

...

I'll say it again, a different way. For someone who has money (a thriving business, good cash flow, dough in the bank), paying you a decent sum in exchange for your expertise is EASY. They simply move the money from their bank account to yours.

For someone who doesn't have money (a lousy business, nonexistent cash flow, no dollars in the bank), paying you is a struggle that needs to be figured out. They rob from Peter to pay Paul. They gamble with this decision. Their last hope and roll of the dice is you.

Stop dealing with crappy businesses and inept business owners. It's that simple. I did.

Struggling prospects have too many problems. This idea of "I'll fix them, and take 20% of the gross of their increase!" is a pipe dream.

Take a struggling bar with a $300,000/year revenue. Behind with their suppliers and creditors. Always churning through staff. Not sure how to promote effectively or deliver the simple result of a fun night out for their customers.

Along you come. EVEN IF you really can help turn things around--and you probably can't, because the issue is likely with the owner, who is almost assuredly lazy, disorganized and wants something for nothing OR ELSE they would have figured it out by now--and let's say you get them a 20% bump in income...that's only $60K.

Where do you think that $60K will go, exactly?

Not to you.

It's already spoken for. That money needs to go to the suppliers and creditors. You won't see it.

Take a booming furniture store with $2 million/year revenue. Solid fulfillment, great products, competent, stable staff. An owner who is involved, able and you don't have to educate about marketing...they already know what to do.

They can easily afford your additional expertise. You swiftly get them a 20% bump in income. That's $400K. Pretty quick payback on your services, huh? And you can comfortably charge more, because the size of the problem you're solving is bigger than the pub's. Nobody has any issues paying you. There's lots left over for profit.

I'd like to share a final thought about price. Good prospects value competent expertise. When they find someone they can rely on to delegate and carry out a task--any task, really--you can hear them mumble, "THANK GOODNESS...SOMEONE I CAN TRUST TO DO THIS." There, right there, is value beyond the problem-solving skill you bring to the situation. In other words, these business owners will happily pay for the privilege of working with someone they don't have to handhold.

By filtering for the right prospects and using the Monetizing the Problem technique, I never run into the price objection.

Maybe the real reason many people here have trouble with price is they're not really competent at delivering a product or service...? Leaping from thing to thing every month in hope of finding the magic bullet? Could that be where the seller's self-esteem and connected Price problems lie? Not a popular thing to say, but that never stops me. Niche down, stick with it, and watch your price rise.

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savidge4 10 years ago

It really doesn't matter what price point you are at.. you will always hear "that's to much" and sometimes it really means "That's to much"

If you are on the top of the scale and doing big stuff... there will always be the clients that Aspire" to be big and seek your services, and in the end.. you cost to much.

You could be working the absolute bottom like many outsourcers, and I talk to a few. They hear "That's to much" over a $100 website.

The bottom line is this, that's to much is 1 of 2 things. Its a bargaining position or its the truth ( in the eyes of the client )

Regardless of the root cause be it self esteem or some psychological state of mind.. It still is 1 of 2 things.

The key is how quickly you can determine which of the 2 it is. ( without lowering the price to figure it out! )

Claude points out that he is not sure he has heard this as an objection in at least 5 years. Thinking about it.. I don't think I have either. I will say I have heard it, because it was a matter of fact ( which is different than an objection ). The clients were not willing / able to pay the price for the service.

The OP made mention he charges $500 to set up a wordpress site.. it ruffled a feather or 2... the truth is I charge more than that ( basic 3 pager client provides all the text and images I am now at $750 )
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akazo

10 years ago

Anyone just starting out should bookmark this page or copy and paste it into your reference notes - you do make notes of the great advice you receive here right?

On the flip side, there are people out there who are just trying to take advantage of business owners. How many posts do you see where people start by saying how much they want to make and ask what they should do to justify their rates. They couldn't care less about adding value, and it shows.

However, for the people who are legitimately adding quantifiable value, this is gold - memorize it!

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gjabiz

10 years ago

Every once in a blue moon, the stars align, and the thread created becomes a golden thread of knowledge.

Such as this thread has become.

Fantastic stuff gentlemen. Thank You.

gjabiz

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pietjeplukt

10 years ago

most of the time when people complain about the price of a product it is because they are low on cash and they would like to try the product and see what it is all about, but they are not serious enough, they are not making a commitment, and yes all these things tie in directly with their self esteem and other psychological factors, at least that is my view on it, based on my experience

cheers!

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by pietjeplukt

with their self esteem and other psychological factors,

cheers!

I've heard this a few times.

I disagree (based on my understanding of what you mean).
The person selling is the one who's self esteem, positioning, posture, tone of voice, cadence, affects the sale. You can give a person temporary self esteem. You give them certainty. That's a primal need.

Don't you compliment them on what they have done before? Don't you help them justify previous buying decisions? Don't you ask their opinion on something they know about?
Don't you give them credit for an idea?

They feel good about themselves, while you are there, and they feel good about you.

If they feel better about themselves, because of meeting you, that's half the battle.

Now, if they are at the bottom of the barrel, and they themselves have the lowest prices, buy the lowest priced service, sell only to price shoppers.....

I'll bet if you looked hard enough, you would find something they splurge on. A hobby, a collection, travel, something.

This only works well when selling in person. But there is something they care about deeply, a charity, a cause, again...something they splurge on....

I would get them talking about that thing. And then equate what I was selling to that passion.

I was in an apartment once with no almost furniture. The guy there had a $1,000 car, and almost nothing else. But he raised geckos (the little lizards) in his apartment. He loved them. It was his passion. And he sold them. At the time, I sold a $1,500 vacuum cleaner.

So I spent a half an hour talking about his gecko collection, and looking at everything he had to take care of them. We started (Meaning I started) talking about germs, bacteria, how the entire population in his apartment could die, without the proper filtration...and from humans kicking up dander from walking around. The health of the geckos.

That became the focal point. At the end, he bought a $1,500 Gecko farm air purification unit.....that also happened to vacuum his floors. I focused on what was important to him. What gave him his feeling of self worth.

I was talking to a furniture store owner about my local online marketing service. He couldn't care less about being online, or rankings. But he mentioned that he was training his son to take over. Maybe in 5 years. He glowed when he talked about it. It was a something he cared about deeply.

So, I switched the conversation to 5 years in the future. What would advertising be like? The economy? Competition? Younger buyers, different media.....he started thinking about how hard it may be for his son. The uncertainty.

And we then talked about how online wasn't for him, but in the future it would be something his son would need to take care of. I talked about the advantages of being online for years...how it helped rankings, and how in the future online would be the media to advertise in.

I talked about how he worked so hard to put the store together...and how he wanted to make sure it stayed in his family...and in the future..wouldn't it help if there were a steady stream of customers, month in..month out...that came in from seeing his online videos, and websites? Wouldn't that make the transition easier for his son?

You know the rest of the story.

Anyway, pitching to a business owner changes when you are talking to a father. I just started talking to a father, and not a business owner. And earlier I was talking to a gecko farmer...not a consumer.
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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Well personally I charge a minimum of $500 to install a WordPress site and many people will say I'm ripping off the customer because it's a very simple task right?

If you are saying that you charge $500 to install WP and change the admin, then yes - you are ripping people off.

You can choose to look at that as having 'healthy self-esteem.' I'd define it as an 'overinflated sense of self-worth lightly seasoned with an opportunistic and craven mind-set.' Hey - but that's just me. What the hell do I know? It appears many of the mavens applaud your outlook.

While people may be ignorant enough to pay you $500 for that tremendous service you offer, once they find out what's involved (and they will) and that you are basically charging $3000 an hour you can kiss them goodbye for any future work and rest assured they'll be trashing your name far and wide.

Hey, but if you take pride in what you're doing and you sleep well at night, go for it.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Cheers. - Frank

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

The people who pay me my fees don't have the time or inclination to learn to install WordPress. They aren't looking for some one to teach them or let them watch over my shoulder as I do it for them. They spend their time running their business instead of learning to install WordPress. lol

I used changing the admin as just "ONE" example of things I've learned about installing WordPress that isn't in the Wordpress codex of instructions.

I didn't feel the need to bullet point the whole list in order to justify my fees on the forum or any of it's readers.

Cheers to you to BigFrank!

P.S. I can't help but think that the prices your charging is why you live in a van down by the river?

Originally Posted by BigFrank

If you are saying that you charge $500 to install WP and change the admin, then yes - you are ripping people off.

You can choose to look at that as having 'healthy self-esteem.' I'd define it as an 'overinflated sense of self-worth lightly seasoned with an opportunistic and craven mind-set.' Hey - but that's just me. What the hell do I know? It appears many of the mavens applaud your outlook.

While people may be ignorant enough to pay you $500 for that tremendous service you offer, once they find out what's involved (and they will) and that you are basically charging $3000 an hour you can kiss them goodbye for any future work and rest assured they'll be trashing your name far and wide.

Hey, but if you take pride in what you're doing and you sleep well at night, go for it.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Cheers. - Frank

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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Cheers to you to BigFrank!

P.S. I can't help but think that the prices your charging is why you live in a van down by the river?

Don't worry about me, my friend. I'm doing just fine. lol

Cheers. - Frank
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DABK

10 years ago

First, this is the whole thing Rus said on this:
"Perhaps we are offering to set up a WordPress site for a client and install plugins and then optimize the site for their niche"

In case you missed the part you missed the first time, here it is again: "and then optimized the site for their niche."

I had wordpress sites installed for me, without optimization for the niche and with optimization for the niche. I installed some 50 of them myself, and optimized for the niche.

Optimized for my niche included photos, some slide-style videos, all with titles and descriptions that used nicely my main keywords. I paid $397. Next time I order, I'll gladly pay the same or more. Up to $650. Because it saved me a lot of time that I can use to obtain things that are worth more than $650 to me.

I bought 3 months ago. My figure for my ceiling price has been fluctuating between what I paid and $700 (my guy's standard price is a bit under $700).

To make my point extra clear: I sometimes go out and eat steak for $20 and sometimes for $60, and I know it's the same stupid cow that died for me to eat, but I don't always feel I was taken advantage of when I pay $60, though sometimes I do.

And, by the way, I can do steak at home, too. And it comes out tasty as hell, most of the time and cost me a lot less.

The short version: there are various markets. You choose which market to play in.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

If you are saying that you charge $500 to install WP and change the admin, then yes - you are ripping people off.

You can choose to look at that as having 'healthy self-esteem.' I'd define it as an 'overinflated sense of self-worth lightly seasoned with an opportunistic and craven mind-set.' Hey - but that's just me. What the hell do I know? It appears many of the mavens applaud your outlook.

While people may be ignorant enough to pay you $500 for that tremendous service you offer, once they find out what's involved (and they will) and that you are basically charging $3000 an hour you can kiss them goodbye for any future work and rest assured they'll be trashing your name far and wide.

Hey, but if you take pride in what you're doing and you sleep well at night, go for it.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Cheers. - Frank

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internetmarketer1

10 years ago

The people who have money have money.

The people who don't...don't.

But who do most of the sellers in this forum go after?

-------

I think this pretty much sums up offline marketing in its complete form. You don't go after the small business that isn't ready to pay you; you head out to the business owners who are ready for your expertise and money.

You cannot expect to gain another big set of cash unless you churn out your clients for the price that you deserve to be paid. This is very easy to forget at times.

Good thread. The OP started it off yell, but Jason hit it even better, and I'll have to give this thread the credit it deserves for making the mark on pricing for offline clients. And it's opened my eyes even more to keep approaching the businesses who KNOW about marketing, are WILLING to pay for good marketing, and won't complain about price being too high

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Jason Kanigan

10 years ago

Originally Posted by internetmarketer1

The people who have money have money.

The people who don't...don't.

But who do most of the sellers in this forum go after?

-------

I think this pretty much sums up offline marketing in its complete form. You don't go after the small business that isn't ready to pay you; you head out to the business owners who are ready for your expertise and money.

You cannot expect to gain another big set of cash unless you churn out your clients for the price that you deserve to be paid. This is very easy to forget at times.

Good thread. The OP started it off yell, but Jason hit it even better, and I'll have to give this thread the credit it deserves for making the mark on pricing for offline clients. And it's opened my eyes even more to keep approaching the businesses who KNOW about marketing, are WILLING to pay for good marketing, and won't complain about price being too high

Well-explained point.

That bit about finding clients who already understand marketing makes life a lot easier.

However, you cannot just run out there and go after big companies. You have to have a level of collateral to give them the confidence that they can hand you the keys to their baby. I've been doing this for 3 years and still keep revising upwards. It's an annoying, constant revising of targets. Learning how to approach the new target market. Finding out where the new prospects are. Figuring out the new niche's processes.

This is an ongoing process if you really want to grow your business, not one you figure out once and live with for the rest of your life. I have talked about it here and here.

People can aim higher now, though. There ARE better clients you can find and get now, with whatever you have...IF you can competently deliver a product or service.

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misterme

10 years ago

Folks, Russ has a point. That self esteem issue - or related issues - is behind what affects some people. With Sellers, it affects them because they'd personally never pay that much themselves, so it acts as an inhibitor in having others pay it. Or they feel they're defrauding people by asking for too much... and it's all the little voice in their head. Like fleas trained to believe they can't jump higher or elephants trained to believe they can't rip that peg in the ground right out like water that's keeping them in place.

For Buyers, they feel it's too much to spend they're not worthy of it, it's a sin to spend that much on this, what will everyone else say, and all those voices.

Even someone like Jordan Belfort gets into how one needs to recognize and counter that trait in prospects when selling them.

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David Neale

10 years ago

Or sometimes the price just IS "TOO DAMN HIGH!"

I've been doing this for 19 years now (selling Internet services of some kind to Local Business) and I've actually NEVER heard those words!

I'm sure many thought it... but nobody has ever actually said it.

In the last year I have seen more pressure on prices than ever before. In our area the market has become flooded which has created a "buyers" market to some degree.

But as is always the case... "this too will pass"

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by David Neale

Or sometimes the price just IS "TOO DAMN HIGH!"

I've been doing this for 19 years now (selling Internet services of some kind to Local Business) and I've actually NEVER heard those words!

I'm sure many thought it... but nobody has ever actually said it.

In the last year I have seen more pressure on prices than ever before. In our area the market has become flooded which has created a "buyers" market to some degree.

But as is always the case... "this too will pass"

The objection is different from "I can't afford it".

To me, if someone would say "The price is too high", that would reflect on how well I showed value. In fact, I honestly don't remember ever hearing it...out of 12,000 presentations. But I've sure heard "I can't afford it" often enough.

The objection "I can't afford it" is given to reflect an inability to pay. Even though you can hear "I can't afford it" when the reality is, it's one of a hundred or more reasons they really don't want to buy. And sometimes, it's just a reflex. They always say "I can't afford it", in the same way some people say "How are you?" .

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Well personally I charge a minimum of $500 to install a WordPress site and many people will say I'm ripping off the customer because it's a very simple task right?

Greetings. I just wanted to apologize to the OP. While I'm bright enough to know that it's impossible to discern tone or inflection in any forum post, I reacted poorly as this just came across to me as mean-spirited and gloating, as if to say, "Hey - look how much I get for basically doing nothing that requires any real skill."

I think had you written, "I charge $500 minimum for building a site in WP, that is properly configured to preclude future problems," I would not have reacted as I did. I have taught kids in the 3rd grade how to install WP, change the admin, and protect against brute-force attacks by changing the login URL. Yes - third grade. :-)

So - my apologies to you and to anyone that I might have offended.

Oh, and FYI - I don't get out of bed for anything less than $500. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Greetings. I just wanted to apologize to the OP. While I'm bright enough to know that it's impossible to discern tone or inflection in any forum post, I reacted poorly as this just came across to me as mean-spirited and gloating, as if to say, "Hey - look how much I get for basically doing nothing that requires any real skill."

I think had you written, "I charge $500 minimum for building a site in WP, that is properly configured to preclude future problems," I would not have reacted as I did. I have taught kids in the 3rd grade how to install WP, change the admin, and protect against brute-force attacks by changing the login URL. Yes - third grade. :-)

So - my apologies to you and to anyone that I might have offended.

Oh, and FYI - I don't get out of bed for anything less than $500. lol

Cheers. - Frank

Frank: I am very offended. And the rumor is that you'll get into bed for a lot less.

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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Frank: I am very offended. And the rumor is that you'll get into bed for a lot less.

That's very true Claude, but getting me into to bed for $500 is the easy part. It's paying the $1000 to get me out of bed, again, that's the killer.

It's along the lines of when I go to the zoo I need to purchase 3 tickets. One to get in and two to be let back out again.

Cheers. - Frank
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Gladiator

10 years ago

THE PRICE IS TO DAMN HIGH!

I thought this was the guy that was talking about the rent being too high when he was running for government position a few years ago!

Ok I have absolutely no problem with self esteem Issue, Trust me on this!!

But If you start with $500 just to install WordPress, where do you go from there?

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savidge4 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Gladiator

But If you start with $500 just to install WordPress, where do you go from there?

The answer to that would be UP!
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Success is an ACT not an idea
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- Gladiator 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by savidge4
  
  The answer to that would be UP!
  
  Up and out!
  
  Been there, done that!
  
  To each it's own, good luck!
  
  Thanks
  
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  Are You A Sick Marketer?
  
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THE PRICE IS TO DAMN HIGH!

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