Bing PPC Keyword Quuestion

16 replies
  • PPC/SEM
  • |
Hey guys!

I am doing PPC with Bing using a landing page..

So I start running an ad with a big amount of keywords and I see which ones convert or have a high CTR to the offer, so I then narrow down the keywords to about 15-20 keywords..

I create a new campaign and add those keywords to it, so the campaign totals 15-20 keywords now. My first problem is should I be using Exact, Phrase or Broad options when I add the narrowed down keywords?

Also, my second problem is that I seem to be paying a lot more per click for those narrowed down keywords as well as not having as much traffic (i know the drop in traffic is quite obvious, anyway...) so I find myself blowing through my budget ($20-$30 per day) and making 1 sale ($36-$42), some days i make a loss, some days I break even etc.. I cant get it consistent at all.

If anyone could advise me or help me out here I would be really grateful and would appreciate it so much!

Thank you for reading!
Thanx in advanced
#bing #keyword #ppc #quuestion
  • Profile picture of the author solarwarrior
    Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

    Hey guys!

    I am doing PPC with Bing using a landing page..

    So I start running an ad with a big amount of keywords and I see which ones convert or have a high CTR to the offer, so I then narrow down the keywords to about 15-20 keywords..

    I create a new campaign and add those keywords to it, so the campaign totals 15-20 keywords now. My first problem is should I be using Exact, Phrase or Broad options when I add the narrowed down keywords?

    Also, my second problem is that I seem to be paying a lot more per click for those narrowed down keywords as well as not having as much traffic (i know the drop in traffic is quite obvious, anyway...) so I find myself blowing through my budget ($20-$30 per day) and making 1 sale ($36-$42), some days i make a loss, some days I break even etc.. I cant get it consistent at all.

    If anyone could advise me or help me out here I would be really grateful and would appreciate it so much!

    Thank you for reading!
    Thanx in advanced
    The key to profitability is maintaining high CTR and high quality score.

    This allows you to get lower CPC and hence increase your profit margin.

    Consistency can be improved by increasing the conversion rate of your landing page.
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  • Profile picture of the author dburk
    Hi StringFingers,

    I see so many issues to address in your post, so I will just touch a little on the most glaring issues.

    Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

    So I start running an ad with a big amount of keywords and I see which ones convert or have a high CTR to the offer, so I then narrow down the keywords to about 15-20 keywords..
    A single ad used for a "big amount of keywords" is the wrong approach for a Search campaign. You need to start with many tightly focused ad groups. Each ad group should have a tightly focused topical theme, and contain ads written for that specific topical theme.

    To recap, you need many ad groups, and many ads each tailored for the specific keywords within the ad group, for a "big amount of keywords". Each ad group needs to contain at least 2 ads, each written to test a different selling point for that ad group.

    Nothing in your post indicates that you made an attempt to normalize your data. CTR will vary a great deal based on ad position, so you must compare CTR based on a consistent ad position to determine if it is relatively high, or relatively low. Was that done?

    One of the most significant influences on CTR is the quality and relevancy of your ad text for the search term that triggered your ad. The method you describe to narrow your keywords seems to indicates this was not tested in any way, therefore I would suggest that your keyword selection decisions were likely flawed. I suspect there are many opportunities to optimize the performance of each keyword by testing various ad text using highly specific ad text and significantly different selling points.

    Now this is crucial to understanding how to manage a PPC campaign, so pay particular attention to what I am about to share. It isn't keywords that you should be narrowing your focus on, it is search terms.

    Search terms are not the same thing as a keyword. a keyword has the capacity to trigger ad impressions for many different search terms. Some of those search terms may be very profitable, while others are not. How you structure your account has a lot to do with which search term will be matched to a particular ad, and it is the relevancy of the ad to the search term (not keyword), and the commercial intent behind that search term that impacts CTR, and conversions. When narrowing your focus, forget keyword data, use search term data instead. The Search terms report is your friend.

    Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

    I create a new campaign and add those keywords to it, so the campaign totals 15-20 keywords now. My first problem is should I be using Exact, Phrase or Broad options when I add the narrowed down keywords?
    Using the proper campaign structure allows you to manage your original ad groups without the need to create a new campaign.

    You should definitely be using exact match, and you can use all 3 match types. You need to manage your campaigns at the individual keyword level and different match types should be considered as a separate keyword to be managed individually.

    When using phrase and broad match keywords be sure to make extensive use of negative match keywords. As stated above, it is the 'search terms' that need to be isolated and optimized through the proper selection of keywords, match types, and account structure.

    Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

    Also, my second problem is that I seem to be paying a lot more per click for those narrowed down keywords as well as not having as much traffic (i know the drop in traffic is quite obvious, anyway...) so I find myself blowing through my budget ($20-$30 per day) and making 1 sale ($36-$42), some days i make a loss, some days I break even etc.. I cant get it consistent at all.
    Bing is a competitive auction, and as such CPC prices are set by your competitors. Naturally the better performing keywords will have a higher cost, so that is a good sign. CPC is just a metric, not a KPI, don't be concerned by how high, or low the CPC is, just by how much profit it can generate.

    If you are hitting your daily budget limit then you have not yet optimized you budget, try increasing your daily budget so that you are not hitting it on most days. Think about it, why would you want to limit your budget on your most profitable days? Instead control you ad spend by managing your bids, not through an arbitrarily set daily budget.

    For that small amount of traffic and conversions, it is completely unreasonable to expect it to be consistent on a daily basis. you need to be getting dozens of conversions per day to expect it to be anywhere near consistent on a day-to-day basis. Think about it, If you are getting 2 orders every 3 days, or 3 orders every 2 days, it is mathematically impossible to have daily consistency. Instead use a longer time span, like conversions per week, or month, to make decisions, you simply do not have enough data, in your case, to use daily numbers for analysis and decision making.
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    • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
      Thank you so much for that reply, really insightful.. I understand the majority of what you're saying and now i see my problems.. I'll give this a go and fix them up.. However, there is 1 thing i don't understand, the difference between search term and keyword.

      As I understood, keyword is something like eg: "weight loss pills that work fast"
      Search term is simply: "weight loss pills"

      Is this correct or am I getting them mixed up?
      Thank you, look forward to your reply!
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    dburk has it right, too many people do not keep things simple a few keywords for their ad, and have the keyword in title, in the ad, and the landing page. its alot of work, but heck if it was that easy everyone would quit their crappy 9 to 5 job and do it.

    Its our bread and butter, we do rediculously well with BING, but its hard work to get there!

    But if you put the hard work in with PPC, quickly you will learn what works, and what doesnt and go from there. The KISS principle is basically one of the best things you can within this environment.
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  • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
    Thank you guys a lot for your replies, really helped me.
    I created a new campaign in Bing last night with several adgroups like dburk suggested and made 2 or more ads per adgroup.

    It brought my CTR from campaign to landing page to almost 3%, considering it was 1% or lower before (I think this is good, not sure if it actually is).

    I'll report back here after a couple of days testing
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  • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
    Right, so I created a few adgroups for a specific campaign and 2 or 3 ads for each adgroup, they have about 50 keywords in each all [exact] and the ad is related to the keyword. My CTR from ad to landing page has increased from about 0.8% to almost 2.5% but traffic is very low.. I mean overnight I only got about 500 impressions on the ad. I have pretty high bids on keywords, some even $1.50.

    How can I increase traffic? Should I maybe change from exact to phrase or Broad?

    Thanx for the help
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Hi StringFingers,

      Do not change from exact to phrase and broad. Instead, add phrase and broad match keywords in addition to the exact match keywords. However, be warned that the broad match keywords will likely bring you lots of poorly targeted traffic.

      You should not attempt using broad match keywords without first doing keyword research to identify likely irrelevant search terms that those broad match keywords will trigger ad impressions for. Add those irrelevant search terms as negative match keywords to the appropriate ad group. But do not stop there, run frequent Search Terms reports to find all of the irrelevant terms your broad, and phrase match keywords are triggering impressions for and add those as negative match keywords as well.

      Ideally, you should also analyze your Search Terms Report for relevant keywords that have multiple searches and have not yet been added as exact match keywords. Go ahead and create ad groups for those keywords as well.

      Those steps should be considered the most basic and essential tasks for managing PPC campaigns, you have little chance of success without performing those tasks on a routine basis.

      HTH
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      • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
        Originally Posted by dburk View Post

        Hi StringFingers,

        Do not change from exact to phrase and broad. Instead, add phrase and broad match keywords in addition to the exact match keywords. However, be warned that the broad match keywords will likely bring you lots of poorly targeted traffic.

        You should not attempt using broad match keywords without first doing keyword research to identify likely irrelevant search terms that those broad match keywords will trigger ad impressions for. Add those irrelevant search terms as negative match keywords to the appropriate ad group. But do not stop there, run frequent Search Terms reports to find all of the irrelevant terms your broad, and phrase match keywords are triggering impressions for and add those as negative match keywords as well.

        Ideally, you should also analyze your Search Terms Report for relevant keywords that have multiple searches and have not yet been added as exact match keywords. Go ahead and create ad groups for those keywords as well.

        Those steps should be considered the most basic and essential tasks for managing PPC campaigns, you have little chance of success without performing those tasks on a routine basis.

        HTH
        Thank you for this reply too, im working on it right now!
        Getting everything up to scratch
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

      Right, so I created a few adgroups for a specific campaign and 2 or 3 ads for each adgroup, they have about 50 keywords in each all [exact] and the ad is related to the keyword.
      Hi StringFingers,

      50 keywords in a single ad group, for a search campaign, is likely way too many. While there are some exceptions, in most cases there should be no more than 5 or 10 keywords in a single ad group. There is almost certainly opportunity for improvement on an ad group with 50 different exact match keywords. typically, the tighter your ad group focus the better the performance when you also write ads that are just as specific.

      Please bare in mind, it isn't a specific number of keywords that matter, just that all the keywords in s single ad group be focused on the identical topic using nearly identical words and phrases. And that the ads written for that ad group also should be as specific as possible to those precise keywords.

      Ad text that is simply "related", is not as effective as ad text that is extremely relevant. Extreme relevancy requires very tightly focused ad groups, typically 5, or fewer, keywords.
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      • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
        Originally Posted by dburk View Post

        Hi StringFingers,

        50 keywords in a single ad group, for a search campaign, is likely way too many. While there are some exceptions, in most cases there should be no more than 5 or 10 keywords in a single ad group. There is almost certainly opportunity for improvement on an ad group with 50 different exact match keywords. typically, the tighter your ad group focus the better the performance when you also write ads that are just as specific.

        Please bare in mind, it isn't a specific number of keywords that matter, just that all the keywords in s single ad group be focused on the identical topic using nearly identical words and phrases. And that the ads written for that ad group also should be as specific as possible to those precise keywords.

        Ad text that is simply "related", is not as effective as ad text that is extremely relevant. Extreme relevancy requires very tightly focused ad groups, typically 5, or fewer, keywords.
        Thank you for the reply,t his was really helpful, I'm narrowing them down right now. And changing all my ads to be extremely relevant. I managed to get 5%+ CTR from ads to landing page, so I assume in heading the right direction. I'm really grateful for your help man, seriously. I'll mention I managed to get a conversion yesterday 126% ROI
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  • Profile picture of the author ottoroberto
    bing is not good. 1000 click not sales. go away with bing
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    • Profile picture of the author StringFingers
      Originally Posted by ottoroberto View Post

      bing is not good. 1000 click not sales. go away with bing
      I got a sale after 7 clicks last night, so I have no idea what you're mad about :p
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by StringFingers View Post

        I got a sale after 7 clicks last night, so I have no idea what you're mad about :p
        yes that is awesome.

        BING is the shiznah, at the moment, we are doing $900 dollar profits on most of our campaigns.

        Yesterday profits were $638 straight to lander with funnel. Basically its lots of testing, but With $100-$200 you are paying for data, then just upscale. Pretty simple.

        Well done, and keep going for more results.

        Use the long tail words on BING that no one else is, they still get great traffic, and easy to get sales with.
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  • Profile picture of the author WilsonHorne
    Not trying to hijack the thread but how you guys keep your CTR up when you have 20+ campaigns running at any given time? Doesn't it get little to time-consuming?
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Originally Posted by WilsonHorne View Post

      Not trying to hijack the thread but how you guys keep your CTR up when you have 20+ campaigns running at any given time? Doesn't it get little to time-consuming?
      Hi WilsonHorne,

      Yes, it does indeed get time consuming.

      A lot of people do not realize how much work is involved in managing PPC campaigns. Not only is it important to spend time daily on your campaigns to keep cost and performance in line, you are in a competition with other advertisers for those few top ad slots, and your performance needs to be superior to most competitors or the bulk of your new business for this channel will be lost to those competitors.

      It helps to a have a well defined process in place, lots of automation, and a well trained staff. We use project management tools like Asana, to keep track of every single task and to make sure that tasks are on schedule we hold daily Agile management style tactical meetings.

      PPC advertising is not for the casual marketer, you need to be all-in, or go home. The fact that so many new advertisers have success points to how lucrative it can be if you are willing to do the work. Sadly, there are many new advertisers that aren't prepared to do the work and those are the ones that you hear complaining that they lost money or that it is too expensive.

      Google setup the AdWords Partner program because they realized most advertisers were failing when left to learn how to manage campaigns on their own. The best way to get into this type of advertising for many businesses is to partner with an agency that specializes in PPC Management. Otherwise, you are going to need to develop the skills and knowledge of those agencies, because you are going head-to-head in competition with agency specialists.
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