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Pausing Keywords with Ads Not Showig Top Right - Anyone do this?

by consultant1027
6 replies
  • PPC/SEM
    • |
When you get an ad to appear on top of the page (on the left) you sometimes (depending on the punctation in the ad) get a headline that includes part or all of your 1st ad text line appended to the headline.

Let's assume there is something in the 1st ad text that makes the ad much more highly targets. Like say the heading is "Buy Carpet Now" and first text line is "By Appointment Only"

If the ad appears on the left, the "By Appointment Only" is not going to be in the heading and you can bet you are going to get at least some clicks by people that scanned the page and didn't read the full ad.

If the advertiser wants to maximize conversion rate and maximize ROI on their spend, would it not be a great strategy to pause all keywords where the average position is greater than 3? (I realize sometimes no ads appear in top right or only two ads do.)

Let's assume there is not a huge difference in cost per click between positions 2-3 and positions 4-5.
#ads #keywords #pausing #showig #top
  • Profile picture of the author LucidWebMarketing
    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    If the ad appears on the left, the "By Appointment Only" is not going to be in the heading and you can bet you are going to get at least some clicks by people that scanned the page and didn't read the full ad.
    I think you don't give searchers enough credit here. I used to think that as well. But the data doesn't really support that notion. I'm sure there are some who'll click the first thing they see without reading but it seems to be a small percentage.

    I wish Google would show us data of when the description line is tacked to the headline or not. I see your point about people maybe reading only the headline. But the data does not seem to support that hypothesis, in particular ad extensions. If they appear to respond to extensions, why be influenced by them and not the actual ad?

    Typically, all keywords in a group, if centered around the same theme, will have the same ad position and similar CPC. You are talking about potentially pausing most if not all your keywords which defeats the purpose of advertising. A better idea would be to increase your quality and/or bid so that you do show more often above the SERPs, if data suggests you should be there and more often than not, that's where you want to be.
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    • Profile picture of the author consultant1027
      Originally Posted by LucidWebMarketing View Post

      I think you don't give searchers enough credit.
      When talking maximizing ROI, it doesn't matter how much credit I give them. All other things being equal if the longer headline has a higher conversion rate, it has a higher conversion rate, even if only 5% don't read past the headline.

      I used to think that as well. But the data doesn't really support that notion.
      A constant struggle in any forum. No actual data to view.

      ad extensions. If they appear to respond to extensions, why be influenced by them and not the actual ad?
      Interesting Hypothesis, but then this discussion would be about long headlines with extensions compared to short headlines with extensions. Anything and everything can make even some small difference.


      Typically, all keywords in a group, if centered around the same theme, will have the same ad position and similar CPC.
      I've seen this vary widely with many different groups in many different accounts.

      You are talking about potentially pausing most if not all your keywords which defeats the purpose of advertising.
      If defeats the purpose of low ROI advertising.

      A better idea would be to increase your quality and/or bid so that you do show more often above the SERPs, if data suggests you should be there and more often than not, that's where you want to be.
      I agree. But then we are in the top left with the extended headlines and this discussion becomes a moot point. You can't always afford to be up there for some keywords no matter how good your QS is.

      So the question remains. If the information in the first part of the 1st line of ad text after the headline is CRITICAL for targeting. Do you get better overall ROI by killing the low-page position keywords and putting more money into the ones that are "on the cusp" position 4 to boost them into the top left to get that critical phrase "WE ONLY SELL GREEN COLOR" into that larger, longer headline you get in the top left positions?
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  • Profile picture of the author badboy_Nick
    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    If the advertiser wants to maximize conversion rate and maximize ROI on their spend, would it not be a great strategy to pause all keywords where the average position is greater than 3?
    No - Here's why:

    Your ultimate goal is maximum PROFIT, not ROI percentage. You spend one buck per day and make 3 back at position 10 ... excellent. But if you spend one grand at position one and get 1500 back ... much better! Less ROI in percentage but more money.

    People tend to click more onto the ads at the very top, and the top 3 PPC ads look much better and yield a higher CTR. Costs will naturally be higher, but if you make more money that way who cares in the end

    Ultimately, it is all about maximum profit

    Nick
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    • Profile picture of the author consultant1027
      Originally Posted by badboy_Nick View Post

      No - Here's why:

      Your ultimate goal is maximum PROFIT, not ROI percentage. You spend one buck per day and make 3 back at position 10 ... excellent. But if you spend one grand at position one and get 1500 back ... much better! Less ROI in percentage but more money.

      People tend to click more onto the ads at the very top, and the top 3 PPC ads look much better and yield a higher CTR. Costs will naturally be higher, but if you make more money that way who cares in the end

      Ultimately, it is all about maximum profit

      Nick
      We're essentially talking about the same thing using different terminology. Yes it is about maximum profit, but max profit PERCENTAGE per unit sold. Let's say you sell 10-cent items, and in one month you made $1,000 profit - that sounds pretty good, but what if you had to sell $1 trillion worth of them to make that $1000. You get my point. Your ROI is how much profit percentage you get for your investment in advertising and other overhead costs to run the business. High ROI = High Profit Percentage - in general.
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

        We're essentially talking about the same thing using different terminology. Yes it is about maximum profit, but max profit PERCENTAGE per unit sold. Let's say you sell 10-cent items, and in one month you made $1,000 profit - that sounds pretty good, but what if you had to sell $1 trillion worth of them to make that $1000. You get my point. Your ROI is how much profit percentage you get for your investment in advertising and other overhead costs to run the business. High ROI = High Profit Percentage - in general.
        Hi consultant1027,

        I think you missed Nick's main point.

        If you focus primarily on maximizing ROI, you will almost always earn less total profits than you could have. Conversely, whenever you focus on maximizing total profit you nearly always earn a lower ROI then you might have been able to earn. The difference is that you can actually spend profits but you can never spend ROI.

        If the purpose of your campaign is to make money then you really should be using "profit" as you primary KPI, not ROI. Anyone who manages PPC campaigns long enough always come to this basic truth, it just seems to take some longer than others to get it.
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  • Profile picture of the author LucidWebMarketing
    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    When talking maximizing ROI, it doesn't matter how much credit I give them. All other things being equal if the longer headline has a higher conversion rate, it has a higher conversion rate, even if only 5% don't read past the headline.
    As Nick and Don said, maximize profits, not ROI. It's not the same thing.

    The thing is, do you know that your higher ROI or higher profit came from clicks on ads that had longer headlines? Unless I missed it, Adwords does not split the results for when you have a longer headline and when you don't.


    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    A constant struggle in any forum. No actual data to view.
    Understandable. I do have the data, lots of it, and do in fact analyze it in many ways, including impact of different ads on CTR and conversions. To me, I see no evidence that a majority of people will click the top ads without reading them. They do seem to read them because poorly written ads have poorer CTR.


    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    then this discussion would be about long headlines with extensions compared to short headlines with extensions.
    You have to take everything into consideration. If you make a hypothesis about long headlines, you have to weigh that with other factors and remove those influences.

    I don't think this can be truly resolved unless you conduct a study and ask a bunch of people why they clicked a certain ad: was it the longer headline, the extensions? Did they read the whole ad?


    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    You can't always afford to be up there for some keywords no matter how good your QS is.
    Normally, I won't shoot for the top positions unless the QS is seven or higher. If a keyword doesn't make profits, there's something else wrong. It could be the wrong keyword or, more likely, the landing page is a poor converter. QS and conversion rate I find are closely tied. If you have a good QS and not profiting from it, then few competitors are profiting from it and I can't see that happening much.


    Originally Posted by consultant1027 View Post

    So the question remains...
    Use tightly focused keywords. When you do that, there's no reason to kill a keyword.

    Say you sell round titanium widgets. You would of course have the keyword "round titanium widget". I would never kill that keyword, wouldn't make sense. What I would do is continue improving my ads until I get a good QS. Then I would make sure I bid enough to get the higher positions, preferably above the SERPs.

    Typically, I write ads taking into account that I will be in the top positions. I take into consideration that I will get a longer headline, even if I may not be on top right away. But usually, I will bid enough to get there and with my experience, I usually get a good QS, so maybe I'm the wrong one to ask. But I hardly ever kill a keyword. A group maybe, but not individual keywords.
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