[FrankFields]

Ok, what happened to WebProsperity on the PIPS ? First, Success University and now WebProsperity, who's next?

I just got started with the PIPS two months ago and was totally excited and have spent tons of money to promote and now I'm seeing it ripped apart by all the sudden changes......

I was excited to join PIPS so it would be easier and more cost effective to promote just one link to six (6) different affilites.....The sales page and autoresponder was to do all the selling for you, but now?

I don't have the money to keep promoting the affilites Stone keeps cutting and I can't afford to keep joining more affilites he keeps adding....Am I missing something here?

Frank L. Fields

[Alan Mater]

I didn't even notice. What happened to "no more changes?"

I just started to build my WP downline (again). It doesn't bother me as much as it does to know there's been way too many changes being made. Granted, sometimes things are out of our control, as with SU, which is completely understandable. So what happened with WP that it had to be removed? Is this is permanent, and what program will take its place?

[BIll S]

Frank, I understand your frustration about spending
so much money! But you say you have been with PIPS
for 2 months, yet you have only made 3 posts here in
the forum.

If you would of came in here sooner and asked for some
advice you would of heard most of us telling you not to
upgrade to anything until you started to get sign-ups!

I know when your first starting out you want to put the
petal to the floor and earn thousands of dollars your first
month... Well, it does not work like that! You need to build
your business and gain momentum first. It takes time to
build a business and you need to stay within your budget.

Everything that is in the 30 days does not need to be purchased
within your 30 days! Once you start to build momentum you can
add different products or programs.

Build your business one block at a time; and you'll have a much
stronger foundation!

[Alan Mater]

Well said, Bill. It seems like we repeat ourselves way too often, doesn't it? I think it's about time the 30 Days Guide had some changes... for the better. That's just my opinion

[BIll S]

Alan, I agree the 30 days need some changes but
we all need to think about something...

Here me out...

Stone offers to build a website and give the knowledge
of building a Internet business for FREE!

If someone joins under me, and all the sign-up for is
Host4Profit and nothing else, Stone makes nothing!

The only way Stone can profit from someone joining
under me is this.

- Upgrade in GetResponse
- Upgrade in SFI
- Upgrade in Empowerism
- Upgrade in Traffic Swarm
- Join the new Lawn Chair Millionaire

And whatever is promoted in the 30 days!

Therefore, he has given us a free service if
nobody upgrades or buys! That is why he makes
it sound like a can't lose opportunity not to upgrade!

If nobody upgrades or buys he has no profits! Is he
hurting for money? NO! But if he could get them to
upgrade within 30 days he makes a commission.

Hey, I upgraded within my 30 days and then realized
that I needed to pull back the reins until more money
started coming in just like everyone else.

I remember not knowing what to do... I feel their frustration
but I also understand why Stone does what he does.

Let me ask you something...

What would you do?

Let me know, this could be something good!

[TheTiny1]

I know that I'm new here too some extent too. However, if you do the 30 day plan which I have gone over twice you will notice that Stone tell you that you should not upgrade anything until you start getting traffic flow in them. The Get Response is about the only thing he does encourage us up grade is Get Response because as you have also pointed out you don't want other peoples adds in your email to you list.
But I still would like to know myself what happened to WebProsperity that it was droped from the list. If for no other reason that just to know.

Bright Blessings
TheTiny1

[Alan Mater]

Hey Bill,

I understand your point and why Stone does what he does. Making money with the 30 Days Guide is a good business move on his part. However, I see more and more people signing up for those programs and sinking a lot of money when they don't really know what they're doing and not building their business. They need instruction on how to properly build their business and get it going, rather than being told that this or that program will "jumpstart" their success.

Admittedly, I haven't even looked at the 30 Days Guide in probably a year or more except to check out my PIPS sales page and some of the marketing tools. I know there's a lot always changing in there, and as TheTiny1 pointed, I guess Stone does say not to buy anything until you start making progress. That's good, and that's the way it should be.

My only point is that more emphasis should be placed on the free and actual working strategies that do produce results over time and less on the programs that people keep complaining about.

Cheers

[BIll S]

Alan, you're are preaching to the choir my friend.

I think there should be a program that we could
promote on the front end that gets people into
profit fast and is easy to sell. I have one that I
use and wish something like that could be implemented
with the PIPS program.

A front end product that gets results and some cash
in hand early so people will stay excited and not give
up! If everyone was to make money early, just think
of how much bigger your downlines would be!

About Web Prosperity, I'm assuming that he dropped
it because the pre-launch hype was not what was
expected. I dropped out once I saw the qualifications.
It's hard enough to give things away let alone sale
something!

Cheers,

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by BIll S

A front end product that gets results and some cash
in hand early so people will stay excited and not give
up! If everyone was to make money early, just think
of how much bigger your downlines would be!

About Web Prosperity, I'm assuming that he dropped
it because the pre-launch hype was not what was
expected. I dropped out once I saw the qualifications.
It's hard enough to give things away let alone sale
something!

Cheers,

Hey, now you're talking! Something like that would help for sure. It's hard to keep people to stay motivated.

When Web Prosperity was first introduced I joined and promoted pretty heavily. I built a downline of almost 20 (not too bad). Like you, after seeing the qualifications, I bailed out, as did many others. WP now offers a free account option, which I have. I have like three or four members in my new downline and don't make any money... not that I really care.

Getting rid of WP doesn't bother me one bit. Having to keep changing my PIPS sales page gets annoying, though.

[Patrician]

Bill - where do you get the idea Stone makes money from any of the programs???

This is not true. Your sponsor gets all the commissions from everything on the sales page. He gets the commissions from OPTIONAL add-ons in the training.

Unless you have joined directly under Stone from his personal sales page he doesn't get the commissions from anything on the sales page.

Maybe way up at some level in the matrix true - but the direct commissions go fully to the sponsor who owns the sales page.

Alan - Stone has been overhauling the training for months now. He frequently makes changes to it -

As for WebProsperity - you know one of my favorite cliche's is that 'everything is an experiment' - that was even before PIPS for me.

Nobody including Stone is a fortune teller. He will test something himself #1 and if he gets good results then he includes us #2. Sometimes it takes some time for things to show for better or worse.

What is that saying IM'ers love? "Definition of insanity - keep doing the same thing and expect different results" - something like that.

So why, if he sees #1 sales of PIPS has not been improved by adding a program and #2 sales are actually worse after adding something, AND #3 he sees that the program is generally not well received, WHY keep it? Why not keep trying new things until you get a fit? (as in the case of Empowerism, SFI, Host4Profit = the core of the core - haven't changed in years - programs have value. No problem.

Bottom line is Stone has not mentioned removing Web Prosperity to me although I do know he is working on some change right now - and I have just checked my personal email address for PIPS and don't see anything there either.

Did people receive emails about this or what?

[BIll S]

Pat, I re-read what I wrote and I do not
see where I said he makes money from
direct sales, I said he makes a commission from
people upgrading. Yes, it is true that someone
may not be in his downline, but in most cases I
assume they are.

The point I was making is that Stone offers a lot
for free. If people do not upgrade or buy from the
30 days he is not going to make any money from
those members!

I'm on his side, I was just explaining how I see it!

[Patrician]

Hey Bill - it is this statement:

The only way Stone can profit from someone joining
under me is this.

- Upgrade in GetResponse
- Upgrade in SFI
- Upgrade in Empowerism
- Upgrade in Traffic Swarm
- Join the new Lawn Chair Millionaire

What is true is this:

- Upgrade in GetResponse

Maybe as I say somewhere way up in the matrix we are all under him but if you look at the commission structures the direct sponsor is the one that gets the commissions.

No biggie, Bro.

[Alan Mater]

I'll have to take a look at the training. As I'm aware it's been receiving its own set of changes quite often for a while now, which may be why I haven't bothered to look.

Testing is important, and I know Stone will do what's best for not only him, but all of us as a whole, and I respect that.

[FrankFields]

Of course we did not receive any notice ! We never do ! We always find out the hard way...One day I'm promoting Success University & WebProsperity and the next day their gone from our PIPS link ! No explaination, no advanced notice, nothing.......

I have read all the information for both these companies and I do not see anything wrong or complicated with either.....I don't mind Stone adding more affiliates to the Plug-In Profit Site, but why not give us PIPS folks some options.....I/We work to hard to build these downlines only to see our "main" promotion tool remove them....

Now it's more expense for us to continue promoting them seperately from the PIPS link.....this may be ok for you guys that have been in this for awhile and have been able to build up a decent income return to promote more affiliates....but it's tough for the folks to do this in early months of building.....

And to add this stupid crap in the Training about the Million Dollar Bill...give me a break!! I used see that old promotion stuff back in the early 70's , way before the internet........

[FrankFields]

Bill,

I appreciate your comments, but I did not know what or how this forum worked until recently....Stone said in training focus on nothing but the 30 day training at first and you can learn the rest later....and later is here..

And yes, when I find something that is as exciting as the PIPS, I do put the petal to the floor....Not so much to make the cash fast, but to build a downline fast...I know the benefit will come later......When I do something, I go all out !!

In these first two months, it may not sound like much to some folks, but it does to me, I have sponsored 26 people, added over 80 blogs to my website, I have written a few articale of own, I have done much research and continue to do so.

And you are right in regards to using the PIPS as a start in business and it has been an awesome training guide, but building and promoting your own site and business website is even better for the future....

But as a newbie to the PIPS system, it drives me crazy to see to many changes, to fast and especially without some sort of prior notice.....I understand it's "his" business, but the changes he makes also dramatically affects us.....

I will continue to promote the PIPS, but I will now put more of my time and money into my own site....At least there I have control....

Thanks,
Frank

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by FrankFields

I will continue to promote the PIPS, but I will now put more of my time and money into my own site....At least there I have control....

Thanks,
Frank

Spending your time on your site is what you should be doing. Make changes, learn SEO, build backlinks, etc. You can promote whatever you want on your site. Put up some Clickbank products, PPL/CPA links, Adsense ads, etc. Add your own words and make your site unique from the rest.

It's too bad you didn't know about the forum until after the 30 days. I found out about it early, but of course the training has changed a lot since then as that was almost four years ago now.

[TheTiny1]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am new as I joined in March this year. I understand the idea that Stone advertised a 6 affiliate income streams at the time of my induction and as of right now the pips site as far as I can tell has 5. The training on day 3 still shows WebProsperity but that is the only place I can find it. It is not in the accounts page.
However, the idea was to have one page that signed up 6 different potential income affiliate streams. And as far as I can tell there has been but one official change and that was posted in this forum before it happened granted just before it happened. That being Success University's changes. Now I know I have to use "FREE" to the extreme because of budget limitations. However, If Stone finds that he can not in good consciounse and business sense continue a certain affiliate site anymore and I want to continue to use it all I have to do is use the free TS's to promote it. Cost; a few hours of my time each week building credits.
I have yet to come up with any real problems myself with these changes. But as long as I keep the banner on my web site then it is there for any visiters to see. So as you say concentrate on building and if pips can no longer show the affiliate site as one of it's sponsered then make the decision if you want to sink money into it or walk away. Some one who is making a lot of money from something and then decides that it is not worth it tell me a lot.
I do agree the $1mil business cards are retro. I still have a $1 mil bill from the 70's and so if I've managed to keep it this long then how long will your customer or lead keep it with your name on it?

These are my thoughts on this idea and I hope that you take them as I mean them. Take the advise of the ones Making the Big Money and you may find they know what they are talking about.

Bright Blessings
TheTiny1

[swfrances]

Web Prosperity has been removed from the selections on PIP website along with Success University.

[cmbwealth]

It seems to me everyone is forgetting that this is also our business. Stone is making decisions based on experience, but if Web Prosperity is something you want to keep promoting then keep it on your site and promote it.

I'm sure we are going to find out what is going on, as I can't see that Stone would dump it for no reason. He would be losing a significant amount of income then.

Has anyone considered that this may be a negotiation tactic that is going on? We as PIPS look at ourselves as a single person sitting in front of the computer, but we have to remember we are a group, and as a business Stone is working on something that will benefit us all - if we choose to follow.

Mark

[Patrician]

Trust me Stone doesn't make these decisions arbitrarily. He has a good reason. He will make an announcement shortly and you will see that his reasoning is for the good of everyone.

[tplahav]

Hi everyone, I was reading this all thread and here is my view.

I am glad Stone is testing new things all the time, it's good, I just wish he test these changes on a separate sales page, without changing ours. Only change them when there are final results.

I am also glad Stone dropped WP, I don't use it, so is my downline, I don't want to say "worthless", but I can't find another word to describe it. I don't think any PIPS member can benefit from it.

Free programs are good, but you can't make money from them.

Tanny

[Leon Bowes]

Frank, just because Stone took SU and WP off the sales page does not mean you cannot promote it. It is your website, if they work for you, promote them.

Leon

[kodak]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Trust me Stone doesn't make these decisions arbitrarily. He has a good reason. He will make an announcement shortly and you will see that his reasoning is for the good of everyone.

That we understand, but he should at least inform the PIPS owners of the reason why he prefer the changes and how it is beneficial to us. If 90% of PIPS owners have same opinion about the changes, he should understand the feelings. I am really surprised to see this type of alter behaviour from such a Guru like Stone.

[Malcolm Tindle]

Originally Posted by BIll S

Alan, you're are preaching to the choir my friend.

I think there should be a program that we could
promote on the front end that gets people into
profit fast and is easy to sell. I have one that I
use and wish something like that could be implemented
with the PIPS program.

A front end product that gets results and some cash
in hand early so people will stay excited and not give
up! If everyone was to make money early, just think
of how much bigger your downlines would be!

About Web Prosperity, I'm assuming that he dropped
it because the pre-launch hype was not what was
expected. I dropped out once I saw the qualifications.
It's hard enough to give things away let alone sale
something!

Cheers,

Hi Bill,

You have hit the nail on the head there, when I did the 30 days I was totally sold on the whole deal and to be fair to Stone he does tell everyone that the training gives advice on all the different ways to make money but doesn’t recommend newbies to go mad with their money in the early days,

My problem with that is that if you have just shelled out for a domain name and hosting fees then you are desperate to get started or at least I was. Being a great disciple of Stone’s I wanted to get my feet wet but all the options are for building a long term future with PIPS which is great but wouldn't it be fantastic if newbie’s had something to give them a bit of profit in the early days to avoid drop outs.

I also agree with Alan, I am getting a bit exasperated with the constant changes with the PIPS programs although I understand that Stone changes things and tweaks things for all the right reasons and he is a businessman at the end of the day. Web Prosperity is a prime example, it was the best thing since sliced bread and everybody should join but now it is removed which I didn't even know about and I thought we were going to have a period of stability.

regards,

Mal.

[Alan Mater]

I think the whole point here is that, as Mal put it, there needs to be stability in the PIPS program. I understand the only thing that's constant is change as Pat keeps saying, but there's more and more newbies coming in here and seeing so many changes and getting discouraged. It doesn't help their conscience any because they start to second guess the validity of everything, regardless of the facts.

There's plenty of proven and well established programs that could be added and safely kept as the core programs, and are also free. I'm not sure why there's a need to test new programs that keep coming out only to find they're not performing well, and then once again, removed.

That's the last of my two cents

[Patrician]

Well, the changes are hard for me too, but in the interest of reality, how far off the wall is this scenario?

WebProsperity: Brand new program. No track record. Respected principle owner (at least one anyway). So you go for it - every reason to believe it will be a good program.

... but how do you know what will happen in the future? You don't.

Most any new launch has wrinkles. So you give it a chance, you wait and see what happens.

You hope for the best.

Then you see that something(s) are not right - at this point it really is logical to take action.

Or just because people will whine would you just march in place?

To me, I am glad Stone has the courage to make a change or do whatever he needs to do for what he feels is best for his program.

People hate change. They resist it at all costs. It's wrong though, because you can't stop progress.

Let's review here:

Leisure Audio - who knew Kevin would die after he started the program? Did you? Rod did the best he could for as long as he could but then who knew he would disappear? Did you?

I don't think Kevin or Rod for that matter anticipated what would happen. How would Stone?

Having said that he let it go long before it actually tanked. Things just didn't seem right to him. It wasn't helping anything with this program, among other signs.

Success University - yes off and on again - there is no program I have seen that caused so many to leave PIPS as when he brought it on and made it a required program.

Then he reduced it to optional. Still so many complaints. Too expensive, etc.

So he got rid of it - more screaming. Then brought it back . (oh man)

OK so who knew they would merge with some other company and their price would go way up? NOBODY did.

Is it Stone's fault? Did he have any influence. NOOOOOO! Did they consult with their members and get approval for what they wanted to do? NOOOO!

Again here, sometimes you are 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' - so you just have to decide what you "think" is best and go for it.

... and again, people have full control of their own website - add, remove, change. If someone was forcing you to join or to quit programs for that matter, then I can see the changes would be a lot worse.

Having said that I do agree it is always disruptive but I don't see anyway to avoid it sometimes.

[TheTiny1]

You Know I was once told "People will resist change until it is more comfortable to change than remain the same".

I agree that change is a necessary part of life and the internet is a place of constant change. As for the constant whining about the change, well human nature being what it is, I don't believe it will ever stop.

My only wish here is that when Stone sees it necessary to make a change to the PIPS program that will effects PIPS or our PIPS website, that he lets us know that the change is coming or that he has made the change. Really I for one can care less of the reasons because he has his and I do believe that they are in the best interests of PIPS. After all this is his creation.

Let us know that the change is being made and then we atleast don't find out in a round about way as we did with WebProsperity. I don't think any PIPSter knew of the change until this thread came about.

That is the main point of all these posts I believe.

As with Allen I believe that I've put enough of my 2 cents worth into this.

Bright Blessings
TheTiny1

[mnyaga]

When registering for PIPS, I visited the WP site and could not really figure out how I was going to make money selling the products. I even did not understand how the products were going to help my life. So I was not convinced that another person could really need it and if it wasn't for the free membership, I would not have registered for WP.

I think time has revealed that the products are not on high demand and therefore no one can get a healty residue income from WP as it is now. It is good this fact came out in good time and Stone did not hold onto WP unnecessarily.

Good work Stone for letting go!