What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections

askloz · 07-28-2009, 05:19 AM

Hey techno guru's.

Does anyone know what would be the best set up / equipment that can hold as many concurrent connections as possible?

User base will be around 10,000 users simultaneously. One query per connection.

And anyone know the prices for such setup hardware / software configurations.

Cheers

L Chandler · 07-28-2009, 03:19 PM

I would imagine you would need a dedicated or at the very least high level VPS that has a lot of memory and processing power. Don't have specifics though but I would start with a stronger, bigger server.

askloz · 07-29-2009, 11:32 AM

Thx, but was looking for more technical specs really that will handle 10,000+ concurrent connections.

L Chandler · 07-29-2009, 03:29 PM

Maybe what would work better is if you posted the specs of what you have or have in mind. This is an wide open question and very difficult to answer without a starting point know what I mean?

maxleadford · 07-29-2009, 08:33 PM

Number of concurrent connections isn't as important as:
1) the resource cost of the connection
2) the length of time that connection is in use from a given application.
3) amount of reading versus writing over the connections (ie - you may want separate, replicated databases where you have master write server and slave read servers for less locking)

If you employ caching mechanisms (content level, data level, connection level) and have a proper distribution of indexes for your queries, you're not going to need 10k concurrent connections unless you've sorted out a lot of other factors and have craaaazy traffic. You'll most likely be disk bound due to your data access strategies long before you hit 10,000 concurrent connections.

Then again, I'm speculating completely because you've not shared any info about the system architecture at all.

This is similar to asking which car should you buy to get the most horsepower? Is this question relevant if you're planning on driving on a super curvy road that's going to be wet, muddy and uneven? Definitely not.

To growth and success,

Max Leadford

ryanstreet · 07-29-2009, 10:18 PM

Most shared hosting servers will only allow a max of up to 50 simultaneous connections, so you will absolutely need a dedicated.

With as many connections as you are speaking of, you should consider a Database exclusive Box. Have one setup for your hosting and use a dedicated server to host your database. That way, you can have an entire box devoted to maintaining your database and connections.

As your need rises, you can get a write server and a box to send cache copies to other boxes with a load handler to top it all off.

Honestly, you can talk to your hosting providers and they can set a lot of this stuff up for you.

I hope this helps.

askloz · 07-30-2009, 05:03 AM

I dont know, that's why I am asking, if I was a server techno geezer, I wouldn't of asked some help from the "guru's" here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L Chandler

Maybe what would work better is if you posted the specs of what you have or have in mind. This is an wide open question and very difficult to answer without a starting point know what I mean?

askloz · 07-30-2009, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxleadford

Number of concurrent connections isn't as important as:
1) the resource cost of the connection
2) the length of time that connection is in use from a given application.
3) amount of reading versus writing over the connections (ie - you may want separate, replicated databases where you have master write server and slave read servers for less locking)

Trust me, it is, cost is not an factor here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxleadford

If you employ caching mechanisms (content level, data level, connection level) and have a proper distribution of indexes for your queries, you're not going to need 10k concurrent connections unless you've sorted out a lot of other factors and have craaaazy traffic. You'll most likely be disk bound due to your data access strategies long before you hit 10,000 concurrent connections.

Well I do need more than 10000 connections, i wouldn't of asked otherwise.

Come on please guys,as much as I appreciate the replies, not one of you have come out with any specs, if you're not 110% familiar with servers and their capability and can not recommend a certain type, spec, where to get it, etc, please dont post.

With respect.

maxleadford · 08-30-2009, 04:15 PM

askloz,

You ever find your answer?

Without any more information on your project, the best I have to offer beyond what I mentioned above...

#1 - Set up a Master "write" box that takes all incoming data and shares that across multiple "read" Slave systems through batched / delayed INSERTs.

#2 - Add a memcache session handling box that caches the "write" data so that the "reads" come through for the client doing the writes until the new data is propagated to the Slave systems.

#3 - This should hold for a while with some horizontal scaling of memcache & read/Slave systems.

#4 - Once the writes become excessive, adding a full write-caching layer will allow additional throughput.

This sort of scaling solution will allow you to grow beyond 10,000 connections and makes some room for incremental upgrades of your hardware as newer / faster resources become available. Trying to set up a single machine to run 10,000 connections is a big deal when you have it working and then the system dies for some unknown reason. Scaling through an array of hardware raises your chance of system failure, but it also increases resilience.

If you haven't, you might also consider looking into something like Hadoop.

To growth and success,

Max Leadford

Ken Durham · 08-30-2009, 06:59 PM

Systems engineering is not a free service in most instances and no one is going to freely spec out a system design for you.
If cost is not a factor then hiring a consultant would be wise.

With that many hits concurrently you will want to cluster servers, have failover servers, and have a systems administrator to run it all.
Then what about a mail server? Do you plan on sending mass email?

How about security? A firewall needs to be set up, preferably on it's own box if security is a major issue.

Will you be co-locating your servers or renting them? Your security is only as secure as the people that have access to it.

There are other factors that need considered also, so there really is no one answer.
How DB intensive is the site?
Do you plan on running a banner management system?
Is the site world wide or just open to specific countries?
What about a development server? You don't want to develop on your live servers I wouldn't think.

Is there any Credit card processing?
You have issues when dealing with the Credit Card companies. There are conditions that you must follow including security specs that need to be filed quarterly with your merchant services provider. Or face up to $20,000,000 in fines from Visa. You must have PCI security measures in place along with disaster procedures. All of your servers and equipment must be PCI compliant also. Including any routers and software used.

And that is just scratching the surface. For such a system planning needs to be done. Not just a single system purchased.

Good luck

seasoned · 02-06-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by askloz

Hey techno guru's.

Does anyone know what would be the best set up / equipment that can hold as many concurrent connections as possible?

User base will be around 10,000 users simultaneously. One query per connection.

And anyone know the prices for such setup hardware / software configurations.

Cheers

I'm curious, HOW did this end up? MYSQL has problems with locking, and handling terminated connections. USUALLY that ends up as broken connections and/or corrupted indexes. HECK, at THIS rate, ORACLE has similar problems! Netezza(a database selling for HUNDREDS of thousands to MILLIONS) SUPPOSEDLY can handle UP TO 2000 select connections! That is a HARD limit! M/S SQL would cost a BUNDLE to even have the potential to TEST this, and I'm sure you know how windows is ANYWAY! And M/S CLUSTER servers have a 2000 limit! At least that is what was advised last I knew by M/S.

As with THIS site? Most of the "users on" have either left their computers, or are GHOSTS! STILL, I have seen database problems HERE also.

Steve

07-28-2009, 05:19 AM	#1
askloz DailyTradingSystem.com War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom. Posts: 2,766 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 151 Thanked 264 Times in 207 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Hey techno guru's. Does anyone know what would be the best set up / equipment that can hold as many concurrent connections as possible? User base will be around 10,000 users simultaneously. One query per connection. And anyone know the prices for such setup hardware / software configurations. Cheers
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07-28-2009, 03:19 PM	#2
L Chandler Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NC , USA. Posts: 27 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Social Networking	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections I would imagine you would need a dedicated or at the very least high level VPS that has a lot of memory and processing power. Don't have specifics though but I would start with a stronger, bigger server.
	Lynette TechBasedMarketing

07-29-2009, 11:32 AM	#3
askloz DailyTradingSystem.com War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom. Posts: 2,766 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 151 Thanked 264 Times in 207 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Thx, but was looking for more technical specs really that will handle 10,000+ concurrent connections.
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07-29-2009, 03:29 PM	#4
L Chandler Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NC , USA. Posts: 27 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Social Networking	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Maybe what would work better is if you posted the specs of what you have or have in mind. This is an wide open question and very difficult to answer without a starting point know what I mean?
	Lynette TechBasedMarketing

07-29-2009, 08:33 PM	#5
maxleadford Active Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pennsylvania, US Posts: 30 Thanks: 2 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Number of concurrent connections isn't as important as: 1) the resource cost of the connection 2) the length of time that connection is in use from a given application. 3) amount of reading versus writing over the connections (ie - you may want separate, replicated databases where you have master write server and slave read servers for less locking) If you employ caching mechanisms (content level, data level, connection level) and have a proper distribution of indexes for your queries, you're not going to need 10k concurrent connections unless you've sorted out a lot of other factors and have craaaazy traffic. You'll most likely be disk bound due to your data access strategies long before you hit 10,000 concurrent connections. Then again, I'm speculating completely because you've not shared any info about the system architecture at all. This is similar to asking which car should you buy to get the most horsepower? Is this question relevant if you're planning on driving on a super curvy road that's going to be wet, muddy and uneven? Definitely not. To growth and success, Max Leadford
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07-29-2009, 10:18 PM	#6
ryanstreet CoolRyan.com is Now Live! War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dayton, OH, USA Posts: 308 Thanks: 35 Thanked 191 Times in 22 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Most shared hosting servers will only allow a max of up to 50 simultaneous connections, so you will absolutely need a dedicated. With as many connections as you are speaking of, you should consider a Database exclusive Box. Have one setup for your hosting and use a dedicated server to host your database. That way, you can have an entire box devoted to maintaining your database and connections. As your need rises, you can get a write server and a box to send cache copies to other boxes with a load handler to top it all off. Honestly, you can talk to your hosting providers and they can set a lot of this stuff up for you. I hope this helps.
	Cool Ryan: Web Development Services

08-30-2009, 04:15 PM	#9
maxleadford Active Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pennsylvania, US Posts: 30 Thanks: 2 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections askloz, You ever find your answer? Without any more information on your project, the best I have to offer beyond what I mentioned above... #1 - Set up a Master "write" box that takes all incoming data and shares that across multiple "read" Slave systems through batched / delayed INSERTs. #2 - Add a memcache session handling box that caches the "write" data so that the "reads" come through for the client doing the writes until the new data is propagated to the Slave systems. #3 - This should hold for a while with some horizontal scaling of memcache & read/Slave systems. #4 - Once the writes become excessive, adding a full write-caching layer will allow additional throughput. This sort of scaling solution will allow you to grow beyond 10,000 connections and makes some room for incremental upgrades of your hardware as newer / faster resources become available. Trying to set up a single machine to run 10,000 connections is a big deal when you have it working and then the system dies for some unknown reason. Scaling through an array of hardware raises your chance of system failure, but it also increases resilience. If you haven't, you might also consider looking into something like Hadoop. To growth and success, Max Leadford
	Hit the Thanks in the lower right if you found this post useful. Thanks! ;-) Kiva.org - Help aspiring entrepreneurs by giving low sum loans.

08-30-2009, 06:59 PM	#10
Ken Durham Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesterton, IN Posts: 923 Thanks: 129 Thanked 193 Times in 153 Posts	Re: What's the best Servers / MYSQL types to hold as many concurrent connections Systems engineering is not a free service in most instances and no one is going to freely spec out a system design for you. If cost is not a factor then hiring a consultant would be wise. With that many hits concurrently you will want to cluster servers, have failover servers, and have a systems administrator to run it all. Then what about a mail server? Do you plan on sending mass email? How about security? A firewall needs to be set up, preferably on it's own box if security is a major issue. Will you be co-locating your servers or renting them? Your security is only as secure as the people that have access to it. There are other factors that need considered also, so there really is no one answer. How DB intensive is the site? Do you plan on running a banner management system? Is the site world wide or just open to specific countries? What about a development server? You don't want to develop on your live servers I wouldn't think. Is there any Credit card processing? You have issues when dealing with the Credit Card companies. There are conditions that you must follow including security specs that need to be filed quarterly with your merchant services provider. Or face up to $20,000,000 in fines from Visa. You must have PCI security measures in place along with disaster procedures. All of your servers and equipment must be PCI compliant also. Including any routers and software used. And that is just scratching the surface. For such a system planning needs to be done. Not just a single system purchased. Good luck
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