Hire or DIY?

loubo44 · 11-04-2008, 09:31 PM

In the spirit of todays events....Lets take a vote..

What should a newbie IM learn or hire a pro to do? Is it worth learning things like PHP and photoshop when you can hire a pro to do it for you quicker than it would take you to learn?

I'm thinking HTML, CSS are a must to learn in IMO.

But should a rookie hire a programmer or attempt to learn it him or herself?
What about creating a mini site or writing sales copy?

Now I am not talking about someone who just plans to create and market just one product, but someone who is serious about marketing multiple products and creating their own content.....

ok, the polls are open!

globalpro · 11-04-2008, 09:43 PM

Hi,

My choice, and what I did, was start with HTML, CSS, etc. for working with web pages. Next would be learn to manage your hosting account, autoresponder service and the basics of your online presence.

From there, study what successful marketers are doing and how, then see how it fits your business model. Success breeds success.

A lot of what you do will be trail and error through testing to see what does and doesn't work, but this forum is a great place to get help. Asking questions, staying focused and giving as much as you get, go a long way towards building a successful business.

As for hiring a programmer, what is your need for this?

Also, what plans do you have for marketing online? There's a lot of ways to go, but you want to be able to work where you are at, instead of taking a scatter gun approach. Otherwise you will spread yourself out all over the place, which is a recipe for failure.

Thanks,

John

wayfarer · 11-05-2008, 10:02 AM

I would say, that if you spend all of your time learning and doing programming, you will have much less time for marketing your site and selling your product or products. However, if you have a background in programming already, it would be wise to learn some scripting, as it will allow you to save money. Finding a good programmer is difficult, and the expense can add up. I, for example, charge $40 per hour, and will never lower my rate due to the great demand for my services. Although there are many coders that will work at a lower rate, it is difficult to find anyone that is as well-rounded of a site-builder as I am.

CSS and HTML are not programming, but rather, are structure and display languages. I would say that it is definitely good to have some understanding of these, since they are so essential to the web, but I wouldn't dare to suggest that this type of coding is "easy", as there is a learning curve to learning to do front-end coding correctly, as well as issues with browser-compatibility that must be overcome. Dealing with Internet Explorer version 6 can be especially painful.

What you should be aware of, if you decide to hire people, is that the specialties of developers tend to be grouped into 3 basic categories:

Designers
Front-end developers
Back-end developers

Although there are many people that cross into multiple categories, people tend to be more of one than the others.

Designers are obviously people that are skilled in the graphic arts, and they tend to know something of HTML and CSS as well, though they are not usually as good at this as front-end developers.

I tend to be in category #2, front-end developers. These are programmers that work with designers, but usually in the modification of their designs. There are sometimes designer/developers in this category, but they are increasingly rare. Front-end developers are programmers, which mean they usually program the server, and deal with databases also, though their strength lies on the "front-end", or "client-side", which is the realm of HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and increasingly, a JavaScript library (I use jQuery).

#3, or back-end developers, are more pure programmers, which can mean anything from ASP.NET, to PHP, etc, and databases such as MS SQL, or MySQL. Because these people are usually very skilled at database design, their services are well-demanded, especially as the web moves rapidly from static to dynamic. These people are usually very logical, and often do JavaScript programming as well, but their skills are not usually as well suited for the fragile delicacy that is required for client-side scripting, including HTML and CSS, though they usually know these also.

I hope this helps give you an understanding of what you're up against. I encourage you to learn what you can, but also learn what your function is, so that you don't over-reach.

rlnorthcutt · 11-05-2008, 06:26 PM

Definitely get to know HTML and CSS - thats just the basics, and can really speed things up.

As for learning programming, thats a tricky one. TO a certain extent, I personally think a basic working knowledge of programming principals is a good idea - if/then, loops, variables, etc.

I wouldn't waste much time with it, but would take some time to look over the source code of the scripts you have and start to get familiar with them... spend 20 minutes a few times a week looking up functions in them and figuring them out.

Why?

Two very good reasons:
1) So if something breaks or you need a modification, you can speak enough "programming talk" to communicate clearly what you need. If your mechanic says they need to replace the transmission, you should know roughly what they mean and why they want to do it... even though you don't have the skill to do it yourself.

2) You can make minor modifications and tweaks to your scripts (after ALWAYS backing up the original!). Usually, this involves html and css... for example - you may want to change some of the text, style or messages in your scripts. Its handy to be able to peel back the cover, jump into the code and find those few bits you want to change.

Theres no need to learn to program from scratch, but getting familiar with your tools will only make you a better online marketer...

SO -
HTML and CSS - YES, learn it now, and keep learning
PHP, JS, Etc. - Yes, learn it slowly over time as you can

hughbanks · 11-06-2008, 04:20 AM

If a rookie has the money and no time, then don't waste time learning.
Hire and Fire.

For the other rookie.. I think it's important to know enough about everything just to be dangerous.
Not that one has to know how to write code or design an award winning graphic but just enough to get the job done to increase ones profit.

One can design any type of website without knowing how to write code. One can even write a program without knowing how to code it simply by coping and pasting things together from being able to read what it's doing.

Have you ever had a situation where you get an error on a page and it ends up being a stinking dot that caused it all. You may not know how to write code but if you know how to read it then you can find the dot.

Rookies should start out with visual editors and view codes while they design.
Over a period of time repetition makes way to learning what the codes look like and how it works.

No Matter how much you learn there is always more to learn. When you get to the point where enough is enough then it's time to make a payment to a professional.

Regards,

Bruce Hughbanks

yangyang · 11-09-2008, 09:07 AM

Basic opportunity cost analysis should help you here, which would determine if you need to DIY or hire someone based on 3 simple questions:

1. How much is your time worth? Or how much is your hourly rate if you are hired? For instance, Bill Gates' time is worth thousands of dollars per minute - so basically, he should hire other people for anything he wants done.
2. How much does a programmer / developer cost per hour?
3. Compare the 2 and choose the cost-effective one.

There are other factors to take into consideration though such as your long-term benefit after spending time in learning web development.

Emailrevealer · 11-09-2008, 01:34 PM

Buddy. I used to ask this question all the time. I spent a couple of years trying to hire people to "do it right" for me. After 2 years of hiring guys that did it wrong I now do it myself.

teenmoney · 11-09-2008, 01:38 PM

I think every internet marketer should have at least a basic knowledge of HTML and CSS. I think php can also be useful but not as necessary...

rwil02 · 11-09-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yangyang

...
1. How much is your time worth? Or how much is your hourly rate if you are hired? For instance, Bill Gates' time is worth thousands of dollars per minute - so basically, he should hire other people for anything he wants done.
...

You forgot the geek factor.
Sometimes Bill wants to get his hands dirty

robocallaghan · 11-09-2008, 03:42 PM

I would say spend your time learning to market and making sales!

html, css, php, salespages, squeeze pages etc etc... they are just tools.

Rob.

ywzqlee · 11-13-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yangyang

Basic opportunity cost analysis should help you here, which would determine if you need to DIY or hire someone based on 3 simple questions:

1. How much is your time worth? Or how much is your hourly rate if you are hired? For instance, Bill Gates' time is worth thousands of dollars per minute - so basically, he should hire other people for anything he wants done.
2. How much does a programmer / developer cost per hour?
3. Compare the 2 and choose the cost-effective one.

There are other factors to take into consideration though such as your long-term benefit after spending time in learning web development.

I definately agree with him.

wchua24 · 11-14-2008, 08:25 AM

you need to know this this stuff even for just a little to by successful in internet marketing.

Plinko · 11-20-2008, 01:04 PM

Personally, learning to program is great, but provides you with no opportunity to make money. You'd want marketing for that.

The only thing learning any technology will do for you is remove the limitations of that technology. That's what I found out. After trying to figure out how to make money online I found my time was spent figuring out the technology instead. I went to school, built some sites, got a job doing the same and soon I found out that technology had no limits for me. But the only way I knew how to make money was by exchanging my time for money.

Learning coding has a couple other benefits. When you hire a programmer you can set project parameters, coding standards, documentation requirements, etc. a little easier. Basically project management. Then when you hire a programmer you can both observe their progress and review their results with authority later. The only thing this will do is help you hire quality workers instead of script kiddie hackers, of which there are plenty. Some people don't mind that. Likewise, some people don't mind having their vehicle repaired by anyone who owns a wrench.

In short, I do think HTML, CSS are essential because they give you the ability to at least change text and colors as required, fix basic problems, or validate work, even if you use a CMS or free template. I'd save the PHP or other language programming skills for when you have more time or are comfortable with your income level. If you hire someone make sure they know how to design a program and not just churn out code. I wish I could give you better guidelines for hiring a programmer but it really is buyer beware out there.

11-04-2008, 09:31 PM	#1
loubo44 Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 56 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hire or DIY? In the spirit of todays events....Lets take a vote.. What should a newbie IM learn or hire a pro to do? Is it worth learning things like PHP and photoshop when you can hire a pro to do it for you quicker than it would take you to learn? I'm thinking HTML, CSS are a must to learn in IMO. But should a rookie hire a programmer or attempt to learn it him or herself? What about creating a mini site or writing sales copy? Now I am not talking about someone who just plans to create and market just one product, but someone who is serious about marketing multiple products and creating their own content..... ok, the polls are open!

11-04-2008, 09:43 PM	#2
globalpro John Burnette War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: S.E. USA Posts: 1,049 Thanks: 659 Thanked 208 Times in 175 Posts	Re: Hire or DIY? Hi, My choice, and what I did, was start with HTML, CSS, etc. for working with web pages. Next would be learn to manage your hosting account, autoresponder service and the basics of your online presence. From there, study what successful marketers are doing and how, then see how it fits your business model. Success breeds success. A lot of what you do will be trail and error through testing to see what does and doesn't work, but this forum is a great place to get help. Asking questions, staying focused and giving as much as you get, go a long way towards building a successful business. As for hiring a programmer, what is your need for this? Also, what plans do you have for marketing online? There's a lot of ways to go, but you want to be able to work where you are at, instead of taking a scatter gun approach. Otherwise you will spread yourself out all over the place, which is a recipe for failure. Thanks, John
	Rapid Action Profits Installs, Design and Consulting

11-05-2008, 10:02 AM	#3
wayfarer Web Developer Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Asheville, NC USA Posts: 420 Thanks: 18 Thanked 57 Times in 51 Posts Social Networking	Re: Hire or DIY? I would say, that if you spend all of your time learning and doing programming, you will have much less time for marketing your site and selling your product or products. However, if you have a background in programming already, it would be wise to learn some scripting, as it will allow you to save money. Finding a good programmer is difficult, and the expense can add up. I, for example, charge $40 per hour, and will never lower my rate due to the great demand for my services. Although there are many coders that will work at a lower rate, it is difficult to find anyone that is as well-rounded of a site-builder as I am. CSS and HTML are not programming, but rather, are structure and display languages. I would say that it is definitely good to have some understanding of these, since they are so essential to the web, but I wouldn't dare to suggest that this type of coding is "easy", as there is a learning curve to learning to do front-end coding correctly, as well as issues with browser-compatibility that must be overcome. Dealing with Internet Explorer version 6 can be especially painful. What you should be aware of, if you decide to hire people, is that the specialties of developers tend to be grouped into 3 basic categories: Designers Front-end developers Back-end developers Although there are many people that cross into multiple categories, people tend to be more of one than the others. Designers are obviously people that are skilled in the graphic arts, and they tend to know something of HTML and CSS as well, though they are not usually as good at this as front-end developers. I tend to be in category #2, front-end developers. These are programmers that work with designers, but usually in the modification of their designs. There are sometimes designer/developers in this category, but they are increasingly rare. Front-end developers are programmers, which mean they usually program the server, and deal with databases also, though their strength lies on the "front-end", or "client-side", which is the realm of HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and increasingly, a JavaScript library (I use jQuery). #3, or back-end developers, are more pure programmers, which can mean anything from ASP.NET, to PHP, etc, and databases such as MS SQL, or MySQL. Because these people are usually very skilled at database design, their services are well-demanded, especially as the web moves rapidly from static to dynamic. These people are usually very logical, and often do JavaScript programming as well, but their skills are not usually as well suited for the fragile delicacy that is required for client-side scripting, including HTML and CSS, though they usually know these also. I hope this helps give you an understanding of what you're up against. I encourage you to learn what you can, but also learn what your function is, so that you don't over-reach.
	Wayfarer \| join me on StoryBlorg

11-05-2008, 06:26 PM	#4
rlnorthcutt Spiritual Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 210 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 8 Thanked 47 Times in 26 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Hire or DIY? Definitely get to know HTML and CSS - thats just the basics, and can really speed things up. As for learning programming, thats a tricky one. TO a certain extent, I personally think a basic working knowledge of programming principals is a good idea - if/then, loops, variables, etc. I wouldn't waste much time with it, but would take some time to look over the source code of the scripts you have and start to get familiar with them... spend 20 minutes a few times a week looking up functions in them and figuring them out. Why? Two very good reasons: 1) So if something breaks or you need a modification, you can speak enough "programming talk" to communicate clearly what you need. If your mechanic says they need to replace the transmission, you should know roughly what they mean and why they want to do it... even though you don't have the skill to do it yourself. 2) You can make minor modifications and tweaks to your scripts (after ALWAYS backing up the original!). Usually, this involves html and css... for example - you may want to change some of the text, style or messages in your scripts. Its handy to be able to peel back the cover, jump into the code and find those few bits you want to change. Theres no need to learn to program from scratch, but getting familiar with your tools will only make you a better online marketer... SO - HTML and CSS - YES, learn it now, and keep learning PHP, JS, Etc. - Yes, learn it slowly over time as you can
	* WSO - PR4 and over 2700 Backlinks on Autopilot - Early Bird Special * * FREE Divine Openings for Warriors - Details on this WF thread * --> FREE LOA and Spiritual Books <--

11-06-2008, 04:20 AM	#5
hughbanks Active Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Coleman, Texas, USA. Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Hire or DIY? If a rookie has the money and no time, then don't waste time learning. Hire and Fire. For the other rookie.. I think it's important to know enough about everything just to be dangerous. Not that one has to know how to write code or design an award winning graphic but just enough to get the job done to increase ones profit. One can design any type of website without knowing how to write code. One can even write a program without knowing how to code it simply by coping and pasting things together from being able to read what it's doing. Have you ever had a situation where you get an error on a page and it ends up being a stinking dot that caused it all. You may not know how to write code but if you know how to read it then you can find the dot. Rookies should start out with visual editors and view codes while they design. Over a period of time repetition makes way to learning what the codes look like and how it works. No Matter how much you learn there is always more to learn. When you get to the point where enough is enough then it's time to make a payment to a professional. Regards, Bruce Hughbanks
	AWStatsViewMatic - A Super Quick way to view web log files. ScrollerControl.com - Designed to Target and Grab a Visitors Attention. Include Manage Pro - Because Nobody Likes Out-Dated Web Pages

11-09-2008, 09:07 AM	#6
yangyang Sky Marshal War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: kavoir.com Posts: 84 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking	Re: Hire or DIY? Basic opportunity cost analysis should help you here, which would determine if you need to DIY or hire someone based on 3 simple questions: 1. How much is your time worth? Or how much is your hourly rate if you are hired? For instance, Bill Gates' time is worth thousands of dollars per minute - so basically, he should hire other people for anything he wants done. 2. How much does a programmer / developer cost per hour? 3. Compare the 2 and choose the cost-effective one. There are other factors to take into consideration though such as your long-term benefit after spending time in learning web development.
	MySQL Content Databases - yellow pages, world hotels, lawyers, realtors, amazon books, golf courses, colleges, famous quotes, auto parts, dictionary, etc.

11-09-2008, 01:34 PM	#7
Emailrevealer Opperman Investigations Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Denver, NYC Posts: 797 Blog Entries: 13 Thanks: 19 Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Hire or DIY? Buddy. I used to ask this question all the time. I spent a couple of years trying to hire people to "do it right" for me. After 2 years of hiring guys that did it wrong I now do it myself.
	Catch a Cheater \|\|\| EmailRevealer Affiliate Program Cell Phone Forensics \|\|\| Reverse Email Search Reverse Email Lookup \|\|\| People Finder Search Trace Harassing Phone Calls \|\|\| Asset Search

11-09-2008, 01:38 PM	#8
teenmoney Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 84 Thanks: 18 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Hire or DIY? I think every internet marketer should have at least a basic knowledge of HTML and CSS. I think php can also be useful but not as necessary...
	Online Money for Teens

11-09-2008, 03:42 PM	#10
robocallaghan Building my IPhone Game War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: , , United Kingdom. Posts: 527 Thanks: 34 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Social Networking	Re: Hire or DIY? I would say spend your time learning to market and making sales! html, css, php, salespages, squeeze pages etc etc... they are just tools. Rob.

11-14-2008, 08:25 AM	#12
wchua24 Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Hire or DIY? you need to know this this stuff even for just a little to by successful in internet marketing.
	Free Blog Templates \| Internet Marketing

11-20-2008, 01:04 PM	#13
Plinko Technology Adviser Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 74 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Hire or DIY? Personally, learning to program is great, but provides you with no opportunity to make money. You'd want marketing for that. The only thing learning any technology will do for you is remove the limitations of that technology. That's what I found out. After trying to figure out how to make money online I found my time was spent figuring out the technology instead. I went to school, built some sites, got a job doing the same and soon I found out that technology had no limits for me. But the only way I knew how to make money was by exchanging my time for money. Learning coding has a couple other benefits. When you hire a programmer you can set project parameters, coding standards, documentation requirements, etc. a little easier. Basically project management. Then when you hire a programmer you can both observe their progress and review their results with authority later. The only thing this will do is help you hire quality workers instead of script kiddie hackers, of which there are plenty. Some people don't mind that. Likewise, some people don't mind having their vehicle repaired by anyone who owns a wrench. In short, I do think HTML, CSS are essential because they give you the ability to at least change text and colors as required, fix basic problems, or validate work, even if you use a CMS or free template. I'd save the PHP or other language programming skills for when you have more time or are comfortable with your income level. If you hire someone make sure they know how to design a program and not just churn out code. I wish I could give you better guidelines for hiring a programmer but it really is buyer beware out there.
	There's a difference between effective and efficient programming. Anyone can be effective. I strive to be efficient.