It's so Much Fun Outsourcing On ODESK! - Can't You Feel The Sarcasm??

You get what you pay for. A large number of people who come to me via Warrior Forum are looking for "cheap/affordable" designer or developer. If you offer someone pennies, the person will accept it only if he thinks that is his right price. Same goes with freelancing sites. When you hire someone, look for quality and not just the price.

what kind of project are you looking for ? PM me specifics and your budget

I find it also pays to specialize. If you find someone who is an expert in:
*drupal
*wordpress
*joomla
*seo
*programming
*design
*add others here........

There is a high probability that nothing is going to be done well.

I have build an outsourcing site similar to Odesk at earner.net. Was there anything you wanted that odesk did not provide as far as the software goes?

Or was it just the lack of ability to find the right person that was the issue?

Was there anything that odesk (or my site) could do to make it easier to translate programmer speak in to plain english?

Thanks

Why don't you look for people here? There are plenty of devs in the Warriors for hire forum.

Most respected boss sir, what you expect $2 hour per?

any luck on this one? If you're still in a jam, give me shout.
Though my prices would be a little higher than $900 for two months, maybe for 2 days, but not 2 months, or even 2 weeks. But you get decades of proven experience to go with that...
I accept pay after completion, when I then remove the code that would self destruct the application if payment goes defunct.
I know, typical American

I have stopped using outsourcing sites since I lost a few projects there. The best way I think you could get good programmers is to ask friends to recommend someone they know.
In fact, I got the last guy that developed a Twitter application for me at an event I attended.

The thing here is that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

It's even harder being that good programmer competing against tons of people willing to work on a project for pennies. Because sadly even if the person is unreliable, shady and/or new if they are cheap they get picked and someone like me who can't afford to work that cheap gets ignored. I have 10 years experience in PHP/HTML/JAVASCRIPT blah blah and can pretty much do any job available on places like odesk and warrior but sadly get outbid by some guy in another country that can live on $50/week... I can't :/

a lot of those low cost programmers have no concern for security or even come close to testing for vulnerabilities in the code. Their code may work as intended, but I see many that leave huge holes in their security, even for simple things to combat, like SQL injections. But I guess that doesn't matter to many looking for a deal, until it's too late.

To many people try to save a dollar going offshore to India or others thru GAF and sites like that. I have never not even 1 time found anyone that did not cost me more in the end then just using someone local. Most of these people get the job the outsource it themselves. So the work is being done for even less then you are paying. You get what you pay for is 100% correct. Use a trusted or referred company and spend the extra $. This will save you time and for sure money in the end. I only use these service when I need something translated. Other then that I stay far away.

Keep your money in the USA! If you need to go kick someones ACE for screwing you around it's a lot easier if you don't have to fly to India.

Did you hire someone who works for $2 per hour? oDesk is diluted with horrible freelancers to a point where the good ones quit because the rates have been pulled too low.

what are you after? i know a few good "english speaking" freelancers.

Generally because people who can do that are few and far between, and don't work for salaries.

Best shot for ODesk is to architect a solution first and then farm out well defined work packages.

Cheers

Yes, you can never seem to find someone you trust on there!

These are my keys to outsourcing success:

Create SUPER detailed .docs that explain EXACTLY what you need done. If you need a wordpress site created detail exactly from start to finish what you need done using 1. 2. 3. and it will get done.

DO NOT put verbiage in your .doc like this... 'Use your best judgment' or 'do what you think best' or 'im not sure about step 3. do what you feel', it will not get done or it will severely prolong the project.


If you do not know what you want then don't outsource it. Only until you know exactly what you need done and can fully document it then send it out for review to the freelancers. Use your internal team, friends or family to review ideas and theories but when sending offshore I suggest sending an exact .doc with the to do list.

For maintenance and small projects i use a program called SKITCH to make screenshots with arrows and circles so that it is exactly clear what i want done.

In my experience most offshore coders can follow an outline wonderfully and get all the tasks done easily and affordable. Once you start asking for their suggestions or leave too many options you leave a window open for deviation and things have gotten hairy for me at least.

I mostly outsource coding and design tasks as well as some marketing and when I go offshore I like to see 1 Project Manager to oversee the actual team that will be doing the work and like to talk with him before hand to get an idea of his skills. Then I like having access to the full team via skype as some of the actual coders only type english well and their spoken isnt as good which has not proven to be a problem for me in coding and design.

I have also made really good friends with my teams and plan to visit them next year and really get an insight on how I can better outsource to them and listen to their suggestions as well.

I know it takes extra time to do all this but if you do I feel you will be successful in your outsourcing endeavors. Using my formula I was able to get 4 really good teams that i now use solely and dont have to go through elance anymore ( I have started using fiverr lately as well). I have some really good teams I can share depending on your project if you want to PM me. Best of luck.

I'm an American programmer, born and raised in Georgia. I specialize in building PHP/MySQL website and/or applications. And can certainly understand your frustration with Odesk as I have the same frustrations from the opposite end of the situation.

Trying to get work on Odesk at the appropriate price is literally impossible due to the absurd prices these outsourcing companies are charging and the damage they are doing to the market with the crap they call programming.

Have you tried looking at another outsourcing site? I have used FreelanceSwitch and been really happy with it. They charge people to bid on jobs, so it filters out some of the penny bidders. It's free to post jobs though.

It also looks like there are some people here who could do a good job for you. And the advice has been good too. It's always best to find someone who your friends recommend. And if you can stay local that's even better. It's usually easier to communicate what you want when you can talk face to face.

I'm not fan of freelancing sites/freelancer. It's still better to hire a staff from an outsourcing company or staff leasing company. These firms assure you that their employees go through a rigorous screening process, passed through different interviews and have done lots of training. They also have supervisors and team leaders who manage their staff to ensure the quality of their work.

Its also good to point out that when the price is being paid in USD that the exchange rates are really bad right now.

The USD is down by about 50% from a couple of years ago.

For me who's usual clients pay in USD it makes a massive difference.

I live in Japan so need JPY. A couple of years ago $35 USD worked out to be about 4200 yen / hour.

Now $40 / hour only gets just over 3000 yen / hour.

If the USD declines any further it will be the US that has the source of cheap labor.

There have been lots of issues like that in oDesk. I've actually wrote an ebook which you can download for free, explaining the detailed steps, tips and secrets of where and how you can hire VAs at cheap rates.

I know I'm still fairly new to the forum but if anyone is looking for a programmer then you can PM me. I live in the US, speak and understand English fairly well ;-) I'm not saying I'm cheap but I'm also willing to negotiate depending on the project.

FACT: Sometimes you can find great people who work for less.

Lower rates do not always mean lower quality. Higher rates do not always mean higher quality.

If "You get what you pay for" always applies, then why is the same product available for sale at WalMart for less? Same goes for services.

I'm both a developer and a manager so I've been on both ends. I haven't used the freelancing sites much, but when I did I found a really good cold fusion developer.

I can tell you a few things that worked for me. For the guy I hired, it was his first job on Elance. It's possible that some candidates go the extra mile if it is their first project. They want a good rating so they can continue to get work.

Also, I was very specific about what I needed done. I didn't give the job out until I was convinced I was talking to someone who knew what they were doing and could do the job. I know at least one other developer would have been a disaster for my project. I only found that out by discussing my project in specifics. So, you can generally find out who not to hire if you can communicate the right way with them before giving out the project. At least for me that's the way it worked.

I now have a good cold fusion developer that I will use again if needed. So, when you find someone good you can just stick with them and not get stuck with unqualified candidates in the future. It just may take a few projects before you find the right person/team.

It is difficult to find good developers (not merely programmers) in any culture

some cultures discourage negative feedback...which leads to communication issues which lead to cost overruns

be as specific as you can. draw mockups. write out procedures.

most important, specify exactly what tests the software must pass to be accepted.

you do get what you pay for - but only if you're well-prepared, and a bit lucky