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What Happened To My Page Rank Here?

by bburko01
13 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Hello Everyone,

Here's my scenario: 2- 3 years ago I built a website for a friend's auto repair shop. However, whenever I built it we could not get control of the original branded domain form the previous owner so I built the site using a more Exact Match Domain (EMD). The EMD site has ranked very well for multiple main keywords.

Due to all the praise I hear about the SEO benefits of using a branded domain name for a local business I went through a lot of trouble to get control of the branded domain from the shop's previous owner.

About a month and a half ago, I took the branded domain and built a home page for the auto repair shop. After I did this I saw a slight improvement in the Page ranking for the EMD website.

This past weekend (9/28) I built and posted three more main pages on the branded domain highlighting the shop's main services.... Back to the EMD site: since posting the new pages on the branded domain, the EMD site has fallen off the front page all together! This morning I pulled the newest pages that I posted on the branded domain on (9/28) in hopes that it will restore the page rank of the EMD site.

Looking for some advice and direction. 1) What penalty (if any - webmaster tools did not show any penalty or problems) did the EMD site get hit with after posting the new pages on the Branded Domain? 2) How can I restore the page rank of the EMD site if pulling the pages from the Branded Domain doesn't work? 3) Is it better to have a branded domain for a local business? And if so, how do you switch focus from an old, established, well ranking EMD site to a new Branded Domain without suffering loss of page rank of the EMD site while bringing up the Branded Domain?

Many thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer. I've found it difficult to find reliable info about this scenario online.

Brian
#happened #page #rank
  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    Hey Brian.

    Unless the domains were sharing links or linking to each other, this scenario has nothing to do with pagerank. Pagerank is a calculation based on inbound links to a document and is independent of a random third party site unless that site is directly involved with the linking page somehow.

    That having been said, there's all sorts of possible scenarios that could by connecting the domains and creating a conflict...

    Do both domains have the same business contact information on them? There may be a temporary problem with Google determining which one represents the business.

    Are both domains hosted on the same or geographically close servers? If the same, that might be something to consider.

    Are both domains registered in the same way... Public Whois, same registrant, same registrar. When combined with one of the two above, that could be a problem.

    Do both domains share similar content?

    Whatever the case may be, you've got to find out what is connecting the two and separate it. I'm not a big local SEO, but I do know that Google tends to get twitchy when it looks like one business uses multiple domains - it's considered to be "flooding the market" - as in an attempt to grab more of the top 10 slots then 1 business ethically should by using multiple domains to rank.

    Some guys never report a problem with it... Others do. I don't really care enough to evaluate it but it might be something for you to at least consider, even a little bit.

    Then there is a wild card being that maybe it had nothing to do with you and there was an algo adjustment that didn't favor the first site... Happens all the time. Several times a day actually.

    So, consider these things and what you can do to find the connections between the domains and isolate them.

    Or... Just do what you should have done to begin with, move the old site to the branded domain and 301 it, then let nature take its course as they say.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

      I do know that Google tends to get twitchy when it looks like one business uses multiple domains - it's considered to be "flooding the market" - as in an attempt to grab more of the top 10 slots then 1 business ethically should by using multiple domains to rank.
      Agree 100% with this. This is most likely your problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blaine Smitley
      Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

      I do know that Google tends to get twitchy when it looks like one business uses multiple domains - it's considered to be "flooding the market" - as in an attempt to grab more of the top 10 slots then 1 business ethically should by using multiple domains to rank.
      I agree with you Goy, Ive seen this myself.

      Was approached by a local car dealer a few months back and did an assessment for them. Problem was that last year they were ranking on the first page about middle ways for their main terms but wanted to be higher.

      On 2 occasions over the period of this last year they hired 2 different so called Automotive SEO agencies. Both major players in the Internet marketing for the auto sales niche. Both of them supplied a new micro site for this company on new keyword rich domains. Of course they used their state of the art automotive site templates. Whatever those are.

      When they finally got to me this year, all 3 of their domains including the first one they had that was on the first page in the middle of the serps last year had fallen back 5 pages or more in the returns.

      I explained the problem to them and I quoted them a fair price to get them straightened out. They said they'd get back with me.. I called about a week later to do a follow up, and found out that they'd found somebody to help them a lot cheaper..

      They hired REV LOCAL. And REV LOCAL (drum roll please)

      Built them a new micro site on an advanced platform to go with their other 3 sites.

      I checked about two weeks ago and now their original site along with the 3 new micro sites are back past the 8th page of returns where nobody goes.

      I've looked at it as a free case study in how to use multiple domains to tank a local companies website and cost them countless thousands of dollars in income. What's amazing is that they paid extra to kill themselves online.

      Sometimes less is more. A lot more.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Hard to say without seeing the domains involved but having multiple domains targeting a single niche isn't a problem. Heck, Google even does double/triple page ranking per keyword for a single domain.
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    • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Hard to say without seeing the domains involved but having multiple domains targeting a single niche isn't a problem. Heck, Google even does double/triple page ranking per keyword for a single domain.
      As someone who does it all the time in the P/E space, I know what you mean. But I don't have a physical business address listed on the site, the sites are never on the same IP at the very least, etc...

      When you start combining specific elements from both domains that join them together (like addresses, etc) then there might be an issue...
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

        As someone who does it all the time in the P/E space, I know what you mean. But I don't have a physical business address listed on the site, the sites are never on the same IP at the very least, etc...

        When you start combining specific elements from both domains that join them together (like addresses, etc) then there might be an issue...
        Yep. Google treats the local SEO space differently than "traditional" SEO (for lack of a better word).
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Some good guesses here of which I think same physical address (in a local result). IP or content might be the best but I will throw one more as a possibility

          The EMD just slid by itself for totally unrelated reasons. Coincidences like that happen all the time. I'd even check personalized results to see if it was ever really ranking where the OP thought it was.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

        When you start combining specific elements from both domains that join them together (like addresses, etc) then there might be an issue...
        Agreed that's a touchy area with Google (phone/address) but there's still local examples on Google SERPs using the same local info.

        One example, I'm looking at a local landscaping business in Tampa, FL right now, when I search the phone number in double quotes it returns multiple EMDs that are targeting the same keywords. This one small business has two different obvious EMDs ranked on the first page of Google SERPs for their main local keyword.

        Search some local small business phone numbers in double quotes for any major city/niche, I'm sure you'll find multiple domains that rank for the same keywords with the same phone#.
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        • Profile picture of the author bburko01
          Hey Yukon,

          Thanks for your input here. Just curious, what are your thoughts on that type of approach?

          Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author bburko01
    Thanks to all who replied. I should've checked here to begin with. My original issue was how to get the Branded Domain ranked in light of the fact that the EMD domain had been ranking well on it's own for a long time.

    All this reading I've done says that branded domains are better than EMD. So, GOY, you think it wisest to take the content from the EMD and move it to the branded domain and do a 301 redirect from the EMD to the branded domain? Should I leave even a landing page on the EMD with a link to the branded domain?

    I appreciate your help folks.
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    • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
      Originally Posted by bburko01 View Post

      So, GOY, you think it wisest to take the content from the EMD and move it to the branded domain and do a 301 redirect from the EMD to the branded domain? Should I leave even a landing page on the EMD with a link to the branded domain?
      At this point, I can't give you a 100% answer other than that you are going to have to pick a direction and run with it. Obviously this two domain thing isn't working out, wouldn't you agree?

      Anyways, when you 301 a site - and we are talking about a legit 301 job here, yes you want to move the content to the new domain name and then 301 on a page level so that each old url redirects to the url that the content is now at on the new site.

      If you do that, nothing - nothing at all - should be left of the old domain. Every page of it should now redirect to a page on the new domain.

      Make sure you really read up on how to move domain names properly before trying it because it sounds like you are unfamiliar with how it should be done - and screwing this up could turn a bad situation into a nightmare.

      That having been said, does the old content even fit with the theme of the new brand domain? Does it mesh well with the messaging and what not?

      When we are talking about a business entity, there often has to be far more care taken with the direction and feel of the site than if we were talking about something like "GOYS-SPAMMY-PE-SITE.AWESOMESUACE"

      The real thing I guess I'm trying to drive home is that this is a series of judgement calls that you have to make - and the result of those judgement calls has to produce a quality end-product that doesn't look like a disjointed mess that nobody can find.

      I can't sit here in my lil' office and tell you what you need to do to sites that I can't see for a customer I don't know. I'd love if I could because I'd make a career out of that - but really you're the one in the hot seat right now and it sounds like you've dug yourself a hole already.

      The best I can do it kinda nudge you with some generalizations but... I mean... I can't tell you what the clear right move to make is at this point. I'm sorry, and good luck.
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      • Profile picture of the author bburko01
        Thanks so much for your help. I'm going to give it a few days and see what happens with it. I checked the EMD's placement in the SERPS and it's actually coming back up... number 6 on page 2 right now. Weird. I couldn't find it even 8 pages back as of last friday (10/3).

        I'm no guru at this but not a total newb either. I understand what you're talking about but have never done it that's all. As far as the theme goes, these sites are built on WP and am using same theme on both.

        As far as the content goes... I only made a total of 4 pages so far for the new branded site. I basically rewrote the content from the EMD. When I do the 301 of the EMD, dare I ask, is it best to write all new content or can I just move the content from the EMD to the Branded domain?

        Thanks so much. I appreciate your time and help.

        Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    Well somebody needs to report those cheaters
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