Have I been hit by some kind of penalty??

53 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Hey guys,

Two of my keywords have had a crazy google dance. From page 1 to out of top 100, back to page 1, out again.
I haven't really done any sketchy SEO tactics, so I'm wondering if this is normal, or if I've been hit with some kind of penalty..??
Is there any way to know?

Below are my ranks for the keywords:

#hit #kind #penalty
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Did you verify the results manually? Sometimes it is just a case of a crappy rank tracker.

    EDIT: Or it is this biting you in the ass... http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...s-warrior.html
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Did you verify the results manually? Sometimes it is just a case of a crappy rank tracker.

      EDIT: Or it is this biting you in the ass... http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...s-warrior.html
      I this started happening before I purchased any links. But yeah, I'm starting to get nervous about those links I purchased... Considering asking them to delete them, even though it would be wasted money.. The articles and the pages just don't look good
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  • Profile picture of the author creaturelocaljohn
    You might be. Yeah, buying links is the quickest way to acquire them but if Google noticed that, you will be severely penalized. Penalized sites lose rankings for their keywords for 6 months or more. In fact, many penalized sites never fully recover their rankings
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by creaturelocaljohn View Post

      You might be. Yeah, buying links is the quickest way to acquire them but if Google noticed that, you will be severely penalized. Penalized sites lose rankings for their keywords for 6 months or more. In fact, many penalized sites never fully recover their rankings
      The thing is though, I didn't buy any links before this happened. I bought my first links on Monday, so it can't be that..

      Also, these keywords are for "shop xxxx" (xxxx being a brand name) and "xxxx shop".
      However, I'm still ranking well for "xxxx online shop", "xxxx clothing", "xxxx fashion", all for the same landing page..
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  • Profile picture of the author Blaine Smitley
    If you have analytics installed on your site you should go have a look at them and see what your traffic did during those periods.

    Having the benefit of reading the whole thread inclines me to agree with Mikes initial assessment of a rank tracking issue. If you don't see a corresponding traffic drop in analytics then you're freaking for nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by Blaine Smitley View Post

      If you have analytics installed on your site you should go have a look at them and see what your traffic did during those periods.

      Having the benefit of reading the whole thread inclines me to agree with Mikes initial assessment of a rank tracking issue. If you don't see a corresponding traffic drop in analytics then you're freaking for nothing.
      I manually checked the keywords, and can't find my page in any of the results.

      Checked analytics though, and can't see much fluctuation in traffic, so maybe I'm freaking for nothing.

      One thing I'm noticing in analytics is that even though ranks for that specific landing page have been increasing, the traffic is staying pretty much the same
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  • Profile picture of the author danparks
    This probably won't help you much, but ... here goes any way.

    I actually started a thread on this type of subject many months ago. I had a client with a couple of keywords that jumped between ranking about #2/3 to #100 or so - on almost a daily basis!

    I had done nothing unusual as far as SEO compared to many other sites I worked on. Never did figure out why keywords were up and down *for a couple of months*. Eventually, though, without doing anything different, the keywords settled into the top 5 of results. I can only guess that it had to do with something with Google's algorithm that couldn't be worked out algorithmically, and then later on with a Google algorithm update, things settled down.

    I know, not much help. All I can say is that perhaps all might not be lost. Things might work out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Avocado Plugins
    Two things I would recommend doing. First please get Webmaster Tools if you haven't already and make sure you don't have any crawl errors, your robots file can be accessible.

    Then go to Google Speed Insights and measure the speed of your site load time - if it is way too low like in 40s or 30s then that could very well be the reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by Avocado Plugins View Post

      Two things I would recommend doing. First please get Webmaster Tools if you haven't already and make sure you don't have any crawl errors, your robots file can be accessible.

      Then go to Google Speed Insights and measure the speed of your site load time - if it is way too low like in 40s or 30s then that could very well be the reason.
      Thanks for this!

      Just checked webmaster tools, and it has no crawl errors.

      I then went on to check "Time spent downloading a page (in milliseconds)" (is that what you mean?)
      It says:
      High: 361
      Average: 56
      Low: 35

      Does that tell you anything?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    If your in a position that doesn't actually get any traffic, should it still be called a penalty? A Penalty usually implies a negative.

    0+0=0

    I can't see it. If anything, it's a positive. It frees up time from tracking words that don't rank for anything. And are swimming around peripheral search results. You could use that time to build some more links.
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      If your in a position that doesn't actually get any traffic, should it still be called a penalty? A Penalty usually implies a negative.

      0+0=0

      I can't see it. If anything, it's a positive. It frees up time from tracking words that don't rank for anything. And are swimming around peripheral search results. You could use that time to build some more links.
      You mean there is no negative with going from rank 9 to rank "not in top 100"?
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  • Profile picture of the author sweezeter
    Google always tests big algorithm updates on certain keywords before they roll out, and then roll back to legacy algorithms after receiving enough data. My guess is you may be apart of that, likely the Penguin update coming soon. This helps them verify the results, test CTR and bounces from the new results vs the old results and allows them to refine a bit before causing pandemonium.

    Hows your backlink profile look?
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by sweezeter View Post

      Google always tests big algorithm updates on certain keywords before they roll out, and then roll back to legacy algorithms after receiving enough data. My guess is you may be apart of that, likely the Penguin update coming soon. This helps them verify the results, test CTR and bounces from the new results vs the old results and allows them to refine a bit before causing pandemonium.

      Hows your backlink profile look?
      It's a bit thin (77 referring domains), but all real links.
      Working on building good, real links now (contacting blogs etc)
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  • Profile picture of the author bodmov
    It is important what kind of link have you bought. And how they recognize it, if true. What do you mean by paid link? Link in footer, in sponsored post in private blog network? If the link has been recognized then, these positions are possible.

    Give me more information about this link.

    If you want, pm me with exact link. I'll help.
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by bodmov View Post

      It is important what kind of link have you bought. And how they recognize it, if true. What do you mean by paid link? Link in footer, in sponsored post in private blog network? If the link has been recognized then, these positions are possible.

      Give me more information about this link.

      If you want, pm me with exact link. I'll help.
      The links I bought were crap, to be honest, so let's forget about them.

      But I'm now getting some good links from relevant blogs. I'm not buying them, but I'm contacting the blog owners telling them about our new collection and getting write-ups.
      So these are all relevant blogs in our niche.

      Not sure how much PR counts anymore, but got links from a PR 31, 36 and 44, all in our niche (streetwear/fashion). Beginning to think this is the way to go..
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      • Profile picture of the author sweezeter
        Originally Posted by fashiononline View Post

        The links I bought were crap, to be honest, so let's forget about them.

        But I'm now getting some good links from relevant blogs. I'm not buying them, but I'm contacting the blog owners telling them about our new collection and getting write-ups.
        So these are all relevant blogs in our niche.

        Not sure how much PR counts anymore, but got links from a PR 31, 36 and 44, all in our niche (streetwear/fashion). Beginning to think this is the way to go..
        That's exactly the point. You are likely a part of the subset being tested for the new penguin update.

        Those crap links you built are gonna cause you to drop when Penguin is rolled out. I'd start fixing that now or start a new website.
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        • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
          Originally Posted by sweezeter View Post

          Those crap links you built are gonna cause you to drop when Penguin is rolled out. I'd start fixing that now or start a new website.
          The crap links were added last week, and have been removed now.
          The sudden drop in rank happened way before that, so it has nothing to do with it.

          I'm still out of Top 100 for those search terms, even though their 100% relevant, and I haven't done anything spammy.. It's really strange.
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      • Profile picture of the author danparks
        Originally Posted by fashiononline View Post

        Not sure how much PR counts anymore, but got links from a PR 31, 36 and 44, all in our niche (streetwear/fashion). Beginning to think this is the way to go..
        Maybe that's just a typo, but if not, then you need to brush up on PageRank, as PR doesn't have values like 31, 36, 44.
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        • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          Maybe that's just a typo, but if not, then you need to brush up on PageRank, as PR doesn't have values like 31, 36, 44.
          Sorry, meant DA
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  • Profile picture of the author 10kaday
    google rankings sway,sometimes the littlest stuff sets it off. What you need to is just keep working on it and should stabilize soon
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  • Profile picture of the author counzila
    Google confirmed they just change their algorithms again and now its not any more backlinks generated keyword support ranking now its about CF/TF ratio so this new changes might be effect to your keyword with back links i just thought CF Citation Flow TF trust flow
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    • Profile picture of the author sweezeter
      Originally Posted by counzila View Post

      Google confirmed they just change their algorithms again and now its not any more backlinks generated keyword support ranking now its about CF/TF ratio so this new changes might be effect to your keyword with back links i just thought CF Citation Flow TF trust flow
      Where does this stuff come from? Seriously? Please share your super secret algorithm update secret that supports this claim.
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by counzila View Post

      Google confirmed they just change their algorithms again and now its not any more backlinks generated keyword support ranking now its about CF/TF ratio so this new changes might be effect to your keyword with back links i just thought CF Citation Flow TF trust flow
      That doesn't even make any sense, as you're saying that Google will now rely on CF/TF ratio - domain authority metrics from a third party? Sure, it can be somewhat useful to look at CF/TF, but that's for us outsiders - Google isn't going to use metrics from other sources.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Yeah, you might need to use the disavow tool. Also, just go into Webmaster Tools. They will tell you if you have gotten a penalty. Look for the manual action page.
    Signature

    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author khuram007
    Buying links is a bad business. Focus on your content people will start referring you in their own content.
    My organization has over 3000 links including gov and edu links
    And i hardly created 50 links out of these 3000.
    If you want to verify
    www.braindirector.com
    you can
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by khuram007 View Post

      Buying links is a bad business. Focus on your content people will start referring you in their own content.
      My organization has over 3000 links including gov and edu links
      And i hardly created 50 links out of these 3000.
      If you want to verify
      www.braindirector.com
      you can
      It's a different ballgame when running an ecommerce site though..People link to good information and funny stuff, but it's harder to get links to a store..
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  • Profile picture of the author khuram007
    Focus on your website and making it as authoritative as possible while making it even easier for the visitors to understand the website.
    braindirector has a score of 97 out of 100 when it comes to user experience. We are bent on making the user experience 100 out of 100.
    Explain your content very nicely and have necessary links ready for users. When someone visits your website, he should feel rather impressed not confused.
    Would you believe it?
    Just by adding a few more links like our mission etc. We experienced over 100+ boost in new visitors, unique visitors and pageviews.
    Treat your website as a piece of art. Work on each single element. Make it vivid, make it clean. Tell you visitors they you do. Tell them what they should expect from you. Tell them what value do they get from your website. Search engines will pick up on this information and they will reward you for this like they did in our case.
    Articles and pages on your niche is one thing.
    What i am saying is to explain your niche as well on your website. There is a huge difference. In my experience you will get rewarded in multiple ways.
    For example, after defining our website on our website (we are always working on this "defining ourselves as clearly as possible") another search boost that i noticed was for my own name
    Google bumped me up in the search results, My name is khuram imtiaz
    If you google my name
    You will find a guy in glasses on first page (results from images) that is me and there is another tiny pic that is also me.
    and you will find a post on first page titled" Googles mistake caught"
    That is also by me. And that will take you to braindirector website.
    Just by defining ourselves we managed to beat even years old websites for some of their keywords with no seo help from any company.
    I can't stress it enough. Define yourself, explain yourself, explain what you do, why you do, explain how do you add value to peoples life. Explain who you are.
    Have all this information on your website.
    I Strongly Disagree With Article Submission
    Instead of submitting data to other websites, sumbit your introduction. Submit articles on who you are and what you do. Make it about you NOT ABOUT AN ARTICLE YOU WROTE. Spread and distribute YOURSELF.
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  • Profile picture of the author khuram007
    It is hard because we were told it is hard and we believed it without questioning it.
    Isn't it funny that we believe everything that some of the so called SEO GURUS tell us?
    Come on, they are humans after all.
    What do you sell on your store?
    come up with a list.
    and it will be easier for you to get linked.
    There are millions of people writing about cosmetics, cars, trucks, dressing and what not.
    You can come up with a win win situation.
    Offer a small discount for their members and they will happily write a post about it. Why? Because it adds value to to their website and to their members.
    Don't want to offer a discount?
    Make friends with some of these guys and ask for their help. They can introduce you to their audience.
    Heck! Offer your audience a small discount for referring others.
    Have weekly or monthly winners,
    Sky is the limit.
    I could go on and on and on.
    Bottom line
    If you can add value to other people's life, your website can be a hit.
    And please never forget that it is not the content but the value it offers. It is always about the value. If you would ask me to choose one of the following two
    1. watch a funny movie
    2. buy a shirt and save myself a few bucks.
    Trust me, i'll buy the shirt first.
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  • Profile picture of the author sohilsingh121
    May be your website hit by Google's Updates.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Masondavis
    Yeah, you might need to use the disavow tool. Also, just go into Webmaster Tools. They will tell you if you have gotten a penalty.
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    • Profile picture of the author sweezeter
      Originally Posted by Masondavis View Post

      Yeah, you might need to use the disavow tool. Also, just go into Webmaster Tools. They will tell you if you have gotten a penalty.
      Disavow is a pointless waste of time, even google tells you explicitly to remove the link and to not rely on the disavow tool.

      Remove the links or call it a day, submitting blindly to the disavow and praying to matt cutts won't hep your rankings.
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  • Profile picture of the author jdudley
    Not sure if this applies but I've heard that Google latest mood swing is against private blog networks.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jdudley View Post

      Not sure if this applies but I've heard that Google latest mood swing is against private blog networks.
      There's a difference between public & private link networks, custom built private networks targeting a single niche aren't a problem.

      Public link networks like being sold as WSOs, yea, easy target for Google. In that case you never know If Google is the next buyer looking to expose a public link network with random niches building links on the same backlink domain/pages. Anyone could expose a typical WSO public link network, all you have to do is buy the gig & wait a month for the links to be indexed by 3rd parties like AHREFs, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
    I just bumbed out of Top 100 for 3 more keywords related to the other ones. I have NO spammy links to these sites, and they'e 100% relevant. (we sell abcd legging, and we just dropped from page 1 to "outside top 100" for keyword "abcd legging")
    There is also nothing about penalty in Webmaster Tool.
    How can this be happening?
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  • Profile picture of the author danparks
    I don't think anyone mentioned duplicate content yet. Could that be it? I just had a client that got hit with that issue after the latest Panda. It turned out that his home page products each had their full product descriptions (as they appear on the individual product pages) pulled onto the home page, along with the thumbnail images. The descriptions didn't appear in the browser, but they were visible to Google (even a simple "View Source" showed all the description text). Screwed up theme, as that should never happen. He got rid of the descriptions on the home page and within a few days his keywords all bounced back.

    Not saying that exact situation matches yours, but have you dug around and really checked if there's duplicate content (that maybe you got away with before this latest Panda, but not now).
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by danparks View Post

      I don't think anyone mentioned duplicate content yet. Could that be it? I just had a client that got hit with that issue after the latest Panda. It turned out that his home page products each had their full product descriptions (as they appear on the individual product pages) pulled onto the home page, along with the thumbnail images. The descriptions didn't appear in the browser, but they were visible to Google (even a simple "View Source" showed all the description text). Screwed up theme, as that should never happen. He got rid of the descriptions on the home page and within a few days his keywords all bounced back.

      Not saying that exact situation matches yours, but have you dug around and really checked if there's duplicate content (that maybe you got away with before this latest Panda, but not now).
      Thanks for the tip, but we've actually spent a lot of time developing the texts for our landing pages. They are 100% unique, they are informative, and they're completely relevant to the keywords.
      That's why I really don't understand this
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  • Profile picture of the author whlookup
    You can also ask Google directly if there was a manual action taken against your site.
    Here is a link https://support.google.com/webmaster...er/35843?hl=en

    They do reply ( although sometimes it takes time to get a reply from them )
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  • Profile picture of the author Rossyjordin
    Interesting one...CHANGE THE WORLD FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
    Many people on blackhat forums are talking about a possible Google algorithm update being tested or rolled out. So, the best thing you can do is wait and see where your site settles. I have no doubt that the next Penguin update is going to be released soon based on what a Google employee said.
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    • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
      Originally Posted by SEO Power View Post

      Many people on blackhat forums are talking about a possible Google algorithm update being tested or rolled out. So, the best thing you can do is wait and see where your site settles. I have no doubt that the next Penguin update is going to be released soon based on what a Google employee said.
      Suddenly, today, I made a huge jump in rankings!!
      Not gonna pop the champaign yet, as I might be back out tomorrow, but made some serious progress on some competitive keywords I've been working on for a long time!

      Check this out
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      • Profile picture of the author sarah maegan
        Originally Posted by fashiononline View Post

        Suddenly, today, I made a huge jump in rankings!!
        Not gonna pop the champaign yet, as I might be back out tomorrow, but made some serious progress on some competitive keywords I've been working on for a long time!

        Check this out
        Interesting!! This might be a Penguin refresh!
        Many at the webmaster community are talking about huge shifts in SERPs.
        But still Google and Webmaster blogs like SEJ, SEL, SEW keeping mum. Why?
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      • Profile picture of the author sameerzaman
        Yes it does often happens due to bad backlinks,be careful
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    You need to read the content and all the relevant context links especially the one from 18mths ago and the graphic about linear progression vs timeline, if not that's up to you but we're not writing it again. This has been in play for 3-4yrs and they are just getting warmed up - it's a bite-sized hors d'œuvre - not even a starter or main course.

    The further you are up the '2014 onward' line (established small business retailer/service provider) the more chance you have to ride out the corporates (Amazon, Google) exerting top-down pressure - startups begin at the crossover point - not a good place.

    Everything has a starting point - it's said a butterfly causes hurricanes in other parts of the word, efficiency is eCommerce's butterfly. But don't take our word or that of the consultnats implementing/architecting systems for the corporates exerting the pressure - just wait 12mths or so - we get to free up time for something else which is always good.

    Everyone seems to think the corporates don't know what they are doing - read the Amazon/Google/Walmart article from 18mths ago - the architects knew back in 2010/11 how to neutralise Google for the next 7-10yrs - long enough to ride out the cycle.

    It's interesting, had the same problem over on reddit forex forum - the hedge fund gave us a trade setup which everyone slammed - deja vu, except the setup nailed it within 3pips of 100s pips move and the exact reverse move - currently up 200pips on the trade - they suddenly all went very quiet. They say it’s not what you know but who you know! When you're looking back at the end of next year - ecommerce works at a slower pace - it will just all go very quiet - like the forex trade!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      You need to read the content and all the relevant context links especially the one from 18mths ago and the graphic about linear progression vs timeline, if not that's up to you but we're not writing it again. This has been in play for 3-4yrs and they are just getting warmed up - it's a bite-sized hors d'Å"uvre - not even a starter or main course.
      I'm sure your complex theories on big business are fascinating and all that, but why do you have to keep posting them in replies on seo threads that have nothing to do with your rants? This is about the tenth thread I've seen your stuff on, and it never has anything to do with the question that's posed.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    If you take standard metrics business SEO (backlinks, press releases) are just 2% of a business revenue stream. It is just one pawn on the chessboard, there are other factors (pawns) that also influence the ranking - then you have the main pieces that come in to play such as platform, pricing, hosting architecture. Google see the whole chess match and forward plan many moves ahead (in this case years) - if you see the whole match and strategy you can adjust.

    We were trying to help level the playing field - small business only see one or two pawns and one move at a time - they think after the other player made their move - it's a very quick match for Google even when then use a small percentage of their 2,000% efficiency - they are the grand chessmasters.

    It's perfectly fine for small business to see just one pawn and not forward plan - but they will have to go back and start over being completely crushed. Plus those grandmasters won't want to play with them again - so they have to learn the slow incremental way playing up the ranks while everyone is being crushed - not our idea of fun but there you go.

    We know how to bypass the ranks and spent the last 1yr explaining it - but they don't ask any questions - just assume that they know the strategy against a grandmaster. Makes no difference to us as we already have the strategy - we might not win against Google - very few can in the general market unless they have 2,000%+ efficiency (niche is different) - but we can make a draw which is the key - no loss of emotional or financial capital and can pick our next targets with clarity - beats losing within a few moves completely destroying your confidence and having to start again – most give up and do something else.

    We have found one key thing in this past 1yr, everyone at small business levels believes you have to work your way up the ranks and follow in the previous footsteps of everyone else - that's not our thing as we know there are also ‘less traveled’ – ‘more efficient’ paths to the same end destination.

    You just need experience to follow them which is where ourselves and the consultants above us came in. So we are winding all this down as there really are better things to do than 'explain' that we have already taken those alternative routes - guiding inexperienced trekkers is not efficient and increases your own risk - doubly so when you're not being paid for it. People are just going to have to come across them for themselves along with all the associated risk of having no idea where that path will lead them as Google closes down the main paths!
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      If you take standard metrics business SEO (backlinks, press releases) are just 2% of a business revenue stream. It is just one pawn on the chessboard, there are other factors (pawns) that also influence the ranking...!
      I'm sure the OP appreciates this information, which really helps to explain the loss of rankings in his particular case. /sarcasm
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    We just gave ourselves our own clarity "guiding inexperienced trekkers is not efficient and increases your own risk". The smallest projects (not companies) we worked on were $millions (D), implementation consultants $10s millions (TD), architects $100s millions (ED). Google (2,000%) and Apple (4,000%) are ADO - the architects are working on that one.

    It's like us trying to take an F grade climber and F/PD trek company up a D/TD grade mountain because all the other routes are already closed or will be by the time they get there - it's stupid. We're off - can be found on Twitter if necessary (our walkie talkie). All the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author khuram007
    This is hilarious. Seriously. Most of the comments.
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  • Profile picture of the author khuram007
    That is why i said that most of the comments were hilarious.
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  • Profile picture of the author fashiononline
    I'll keep watch the next days, and let u guys know if this was just a hiccup or if there's some larger changes brewing
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