Backlink Campaign - domains with PR zero?

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  • SEO
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Wondering if I could get some feedback from the SEO experts in this forum. I am new to SEO - and just have a basic knowledge.

Last month, I employed an oganization to set up a backlink campaign for my new site.

The links were to be top quality and created on authority sites.

After this first month, I looked at the twenty domains that they had created, and noted that 15 domains have a page rank of zero, and the other five have a page rank of 3.

I have not included the domain names - but the diagram below shows on each line, the respective PR, Citation Flow, etc for each domain.

The SEO organization that I employed claim that PR counts for very little, and that they focus instead (via majestic) on Trust Flow (and citation flow).

Are PR zero domains worth anything? Should I continue into month two with this campaign?

#backlink #campaign #domains
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Are they talking about the PR of the page where your link actually shows up or the PR of the home page? Big difference.

    PR has not been updated in a long, long time, so it is not as useful to look at as it once was.

    I would look more at the type of links they are building and if they are relevant.

    If they are just doing blog comments, profile links, and flooding forums with posts, I would dump them.
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Mike, thanks for your reply.

      They have their own network of sites in place. And these 20 domains, created this month to link to me, have little or no relevancy to my niche. There is one anchor text, on each domain, linking to my domain, and that is it. The anchor texts have admittedly improved their respective keyword rankings in google for me. But has had little impact so far on my tiny website traffic.

      I had hoped for sites with good PR/domain authority, and links from other relevant sites, in my niche.

      It is a thousand bucks a month. Costly, for what it is IMHO
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Are they talking about the PR of the page where your link actually shows up or the PR of the home page? Big difference.
      sorry. I meant to answer this previously.

      Each domain has one page (homepage), if I recall correctly.

      so the PR is one and the same, I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author zubairg
    If you're paying $1000 a month for that, I'd dump it quick. You can get the same for a lot cheaper. For that budget, you can get decent links and rank pretty quick
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by zubairg View Post

      If you're paying $1000 a month for that, I'd dump it quick. You can get the same for a lot cheaper. For that budget, you can get decent links and rank pretty quick
      thanks for the reply, Zubairg.

      According to google analytics, I am getting on average between 25 and 45 visitors per day. Webalyzer and Awstats say I have between 100 and 200. Who to believe I believe google analytics. This traffic has been the same for ages.

      Regarding SEO, and getting good backlink work done - may I ask who you'd recommend? (I am new to this forum).
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    What niche are you in?
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      What niche are you in?
      bdsm dating type site (quality, classy, no nudity)
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by mistress View Post

        bdsm dating type site (quality, classy, no nudity)
        Ah. That's a tougher one to get good links in. So many places will not accept that type of content. Most people I know doing SEO in that niche are actually charging a good but more, but building relevant network sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author mistress
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          Ah. That's a tougher one to get good links in. So many places will not accept that type of content. Most people I know doing SEO in that niche are actually charging a good but more, but building relevant network sites.
          interesting (thanks for that point). I guess it is more difficult in this niche.

          I have actually researched and put together a massive list - of BDSM related websites (with PR data) to try and contact, and get a link.

          The website owners (often professional dominatrixes) can obviously create a free profile on my site (and in doing so, also get a link back to their own site).
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by mistress View Post

            interesting (thanks for that point). I guess it is more difficult in this niche.

            I have actually researched and put together a massive list - of BDSM related websites (with PR data) to try and contact, and get a link.

            The website owners (often professional dominatrixes) can obviously create a free profile on my site (and in doing so, also get a link back to their own site).
            Sounds like you are on the right track all on your own.
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            • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Sounds like you are on the right track all on your own.
              I agree with Mike. You've got a good start, now it's just a matter of getting through enough rejections to actually turn it into something...
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              • Profile picture of the author mistress
                Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

                I agree with Mike. You've got a good start, now it's just a matter of getting through enough rejections to actually turn it into something...
                Good point.

                I wonder what the return rate is like when sending back link requests.

                I can only imagine that it will be small - 10 percent or less, perhaps.
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            • Profile picture of the author mistress
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Sounds like you are on the right track all on your own.
              thanks, Mike.

              Maybe hundreds of direct links (from the niche) should be the main part of my strategy to get traffic......as opposed to building a private network blog, with tiered linking, and worrying less about google's latest algorithms.

              May I ask a further question.

              I am new to writing to website owners, requesting a back link. Is there a good template, or even some DO's and DON'T's when writing asking for a link? e.g. I did read of one angle - of finding a broken link on the other website and informing the owner about the issue.
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              • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
                Originally Posted by mistress View Post

                .....as opposed to building a private network....
                I know you were talking to Mike, but I will tell you that there is nothing wrong with building a PROPER link network for your niche.

                I'm in the penis enlargement industry pretty heavily and built a network just for that - so if I can do it in my industry, you can do it for yours. It works very well.

                But don't take these 1 page domains they are giving you as the ideal example for how to do it. In fact, it's pretty much a roadmap for how not to do it if you ask me.

                If you only have one site to worry about, then build some well developed sites that will stand on their own merit to link back to your main money maker.

                In the interest of not starting a heated debate in your thread between 3 guys here, I'm just going to cut it short there.

                But don't throw away building your own network - WHILE AT THE SAME TIME - getting all those links from already established, relevant domains.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

                  I know you were talking to Mike, but I will tell you that there is nothing wrong with building a PROPER link network for your niche.

                  I'm in the penis enlargement industry pretty heavily and built a network just for that - so if I can do it in my industry, you can do it for yours. It works very well.

                  But don't take these 1 page domains they are giving you as the ideal example for how to do it. In fact, it's pretty much a roadmap for how not to do it if you ask me.

                  If you only have one site to worry about, then build some well developed sites that will stand on their own merit to link back to your main money maker.

                  In the interest of not starting a heated debate in your thread between 3 guys here, I'm just going to cut it short there.

                  But don't throw away building your own network - WHILE AT THE SAME TIME - getting all those links from already established, relevant domains.
                  I agree 100%. Building a private network is a great way to go. Don't let what the clowns you hired dissuade you. That is a crappy example of a private network. Like GOY said, build well developed sites that will stand on their own merit.

                  As for the outreach question... I think one place people fail to look is social media. I don't want to go into too much detail here because some idiots will pick up on the idea and destroy it for the rest of us. As far as response rate though, trust me. It will be infinitely better through social media than email.

                  That's not to say do not do email too, but if you get a 5-10% response rate there, you are doing pretty good.

                  Don't just reach out asking for a link. Reach out to get their opinion on something. Start a conversation. In your niche, you might reach out and ask if they would mind answering a 2-3 question survey about if they find it is difficult to meet like-minded individuals and why, or where they have the most success finding people with the same interests.

                  I'm just thinking off the top of my head here. You know your niche far better than I do.
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                  • Profile picture of the author mistress
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    I agree 100%. Building a private network is a great way to go. Don't let what the clowns you hired dissuade you. That is a crappy example of a private network. Like GOY said, build well developed sites that will stand on their own merit.

                    As for the outreach question... I think one place people fail to look is social media. I don't want to go into too much detail here because some idiots will pick up on the idea and destroy it for the rest of us. As far as response rate though, trust me. It will be infinitely better through social media than email.

                    That's not to say do not do email too, but if you get a 5-10% response rate there, you are doing pretty good.

                    Don't just reach out asking for a link. Reach out to get their opinion on something. Start a conversation. In your niche, you might reach out and ask if they would mind answering a 2-3 question survey about if they find it is difficult to meet like-minded individuals and why, or where they have the most success finding people with the same interests.

                    I'm just thinking off the top of my head here. You know your niche far better than I do.
                    Mike, thanks for all your sterling advice and tips. Much appreciated.

                    I plan to get into social media marketing much more in the future. I have acquired a few books and PDF's on the topic. I am reading a PDF tonight on using pinterest for website marketing.

                    No success to date, for me, with twitter (despite following many hundreds and posting a few comments). I really need to learn more about how to successfully deploy it. As you say, and I can imagine it so - that there will be more chance of getting back links via dialog in social media.

                    I am going to give your 2 or 3 question survey some thought this week....see if I can develop it for this niche.
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                • Profile picture of the author mistress
                  Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

                  I know you were talking to Mike, but I will tell you that there is nothing wrong with building a PROPER link network for your niche.

                  I'm in the penis enlargement industry pretty heavily and built a network just for that - so if I can do it in my industry, you can do it for yours. It works very well.

                  But don't take these 1 page domains they are giving you as the ideal example for how to do it. In fact, it's pretty much a roadmap for how not to do it if you ask me.

                  If you only have one site to worry about, then build some well developed sites that will stand on their own merit to link back to your main money maker.

                  But don't throw away building your own network - WHILE AT THE SAME TIME - getting all those links from already established, relevant domains.
                  thanks for that advice. Appreciated. I wish I could locate the THANKS button in here, to thank you (and everyone else in here) who has been so kind.

                  Yes, I am no expert, but I also felt that the one page domains that I was given (15 of the 20 sites with zero PR) were a roadmap of what not to do.

                  If it were you - how many sites would you build, to point back to the main site?

                  And is there a cheap way of finding/buying and hosting them? Should they be on different servers/IPs to keep google happy?
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                  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
                    Originally Posted by mistress View Post

                    thanks for that advice. Appreciated. I wish I could locate the THANKS button in here, to thank you (and everyone else in here) who has been so kind
                    Oh that's no problem, I haven't done anything exceptional here. Beyond that, I can't speak for anyone else but to me, because of your niche, it's a semi-fun problem or task at hand - and as you can understand given my primary niche, your situation is a similar "game" to the one I have to play - so that's always fun.

                    Besides, you've been exceptionally polite and your communication has been polite, clear and concise - 3 qualities that aren't often seen here and I'm surprised this thread has remained sterile of any of the garbage posts/advice that can normally be slung around.

                    Lastly, I'm a part of the Alt community in Cleveland, so... you're kind of a special case to me.

                    Originally Posted by mistress View Post

                    Yes, I am no expert, but I also felt that the one page domains that I was given (15 of the 20 sites with zero PR) were a roadmap of what not to do.

                    If it were you - how many sites would you build, to point back to the main site?

                    And is there a cheap way of finding/buying and hosting them? Should they be on different servers/IPs to keep google happy?
                    Yeah, one page domains are pretty much the devil to me.

                    We are a bit different in how we might have to approach network sites, particularly different from link sellers, but even more than that - our niche selection is very suspicious. There's a lot of shady operators in our markets and because of that our network sites require a little more effort than in other markets. Require might be a strong word... but for me it's a requirement. My goal is always to be able to pass a manual review. I don't know that I actually would, but that is the vision that directs my efforts.

                    How many sites I would build is a tricky question because honestly I may never really "Stop" developing additional link assets over time. For me, it's less the case of building 20 sites and walking away and more of a long term mindset.

                    I might start off hot and heavy and build out 10 or 12 sites as quickly as possible just to lay a foundation - but after that I would take on a 'grinder' mindset and grind out another domain or two a month until the end of time.

                    They really don't take much time to create when you have just one topic to cover - the most difficult part for me was finding new ways to approach the same topic or finding new concepts for sites overall. You don't want everything to be a blog and truthfully very few of my network sites are blogs. There's a lot of business sites (yes, even in P/E), social resource sites, etc..

                    One tip that I've never really shared is to just surf the forums in that niche and look at what people link to. If they are linking to it, assuming that it is an honest link, then whatever that thing is holds some value to the community - and that's really how you want your network sites to be viewed. You want them to look like they could mean something to someone... I'm not saying to spend forever building this extremely big, helpful site - but cover the basics and do put in a little effort.

                    When we start talking about how to setup a link network, there are going to be a variety of opinions on the topic. Mike F. and Mike A. will likely have different opinions from each other and from me. It's like describing the taste of a hardboiled egg. Everyone will have their own way of thinking about it...

                    This is about where I would stop for now to avoid any 1AM fighting. I'll let someone else jump in if they are so inclined.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If I bought PR links I would expect the backlink pages to show the same PR being advertised, regardless how often Google updates public PR.

    Based on the 15 domain/page PR0 mentioned in OP, looks like you got hosed on the deal.

    If you bought the links here on WF, go to the sales page & have them explain why the backlink pages are PR0. I'm guessing you didn't by blog post links that rolled off the Home page.
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      If I bought PR links I would expect the backlink pages to show the same PR being advertised, regardless how often Google updates public PR.

      Based on the 15 domain/page PR0 mentioned in OP, looks like you got hosed on the deal.
      thanks for the response.

      the idea was to have sites created, linking back to mine, in an already established network (private network they have).

      But I was expecting and was promised, sites with high domain authority.

      I never expected PR's of zero.

      The organization told me when I asked yesterday, that PR counts for little - and it is more focussed on Trust Flow (in majestic).

      I am dubious.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post


      Based on the 15 domain/page PR0 mentioned in OP, looks like you got hosed on the deal.

      If you bought the links here on WF, go to the sales page & have them explain why the backlink pages are PR0. I'm guessing you didn't by blog post links that rolled off the Home page.
      Normally I would agree with you given the price but in this case the niche makes a huge difference. The SEO would have to be stupid to just drop those links along with his mainline customer resources. If I even touched that stuff I'd charge premium for it due to the risk it imposes or having to set up an individualized network
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  • Profile picture of the author zubairg
    Mike's right. For that niche, not many people will accept you, nor will you get high quality relevant links. Others in your niche build their own PBNs. With one month's investment, that's what I would do. Start building your own and continue adding to it to add relevant links and grow your network. That way, you are in full control of your network, your links.
    Takes more time, but results are much better. Drop me a PM and I may be able to point you in the direction of someone who can help you
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
    So you bought PBN links then. The links you got were by no means placed on authority sites because you won't find authority sites in most PBNs, private or public. What you will find is domains on which authority sites existed in the past.
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by SEO Power View Post

      So you bought PBN links then. The links you got were by no means placed on authority sites because you won't find authority sites in most PBNs, private or public. What you will find is domains on which authority sites existed in the past.
      thanks for the reply.

      The 20 domains all have only one page.

      When you say that one won't find authority sites in most PBN's - in your opinion, does that mean that such PBN's (e.g. with most having PR of zero) are pretty much useless?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    I used to be in the BDSM niche (used to sell lingerie, sex toys, BDSM gear), how I learnt SEO almost 15 years ago, still have my main two domains in moth balls (not used in over ten years to sell products!).

    Checked one the other day and number 8 for BDSM lingerie still (only PR1 as well).

    Not trying to sell you links, I don't sell links or trade them, I keep my first domains for sentimental reasons, made me a lot of money when I first started making money online :-)

    You never know, one day might go back into the niche.

    You are being ripped off with the links you bought, you are running a risk of a penalty for those links from the sound of things. I'd have them removed ASAP.

    For $1,000+ a month you could buy all sorts of promotion for your site that could act as link bait. It's a difficult niche to generate backlinks, like others have said when I cared about the niche I built my own PBN, for $1,000 a month you could build a half decent PBN in a year buying adult niche sites (porn sites etc...) for linking to your money site. Be careful, Google doesn't like low quality PBN's, the one page sites you bought links from sound like low quality sites. If I were back in your niche I'd look to link bait, nothing better than generating natural backlinks because webmasters want to link to something you offer.

    David
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    • Profile picture of the author mistress
      Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

      I used to be in the BDSM niche (used to sell lingerie, sex toys, BDSM gear), how I learnt SEO almost 15 years ago, still have my main two domains in moth balls (not used in over ten years to sell products!).

      Checked one the other day and number 8 for BDSM lingerie still (only PR1 as well).

      Not trying to sell you links, I don't sell links or trade them, I keep my first domains for sentimental reasons, made me a lot of money when I first started making money online :-)

      You never know, one day might go back into the niche.

      You are being ripped off with the links you bought, you are running a risk of a penalty for those links from the sound of things. I'd have them removed ASAP.

      For $1,000+ a month you could buy all sorts of promotion for your site that could act as link bait. It's a difficult niche to generate backlinks, like others have said when I cared about the niche I built my own PBN, for $1,000 a month you could build a half decent PBN in a year buying adult niche sites (porn sites etc...) for linking to your money site. Be careful, Google doesn't like low quality PBN's, the one page sites you bought links from sound like low quality sites. If I were back in your niche I'd look to link bait, nothing better than generating natural backlinks because webmasters want to link to something you offer.

      David
      thanks for the fascinating reply, David.

      Amazing how your keyword still ranks well on the old mothballed sites (and a PR of 1). I know what you mean re sentimentality. I was looking this morning in domaintools.com at an old site of mine, that I mothballed over 10 years ago. I had spent so much time working on it (was a music site), in the late 90s and early 2000s......and now it is derelict. *sad eyes*

      Thanks for the advice re google penalties. Yes, I am no expert, but these 20 sites look like low quality to me (a shell of a site, with a homepage and nothing else)

      When you mention building my own PBN in a year - how many sites would I need to buy? i.e. sites to put links back to my money site?

      I like the idea of link bait. Any bdsm type idea examples spring to mind?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    You should view a PBN as a very long term investment (if you go this route), it's not a case of throw a few hundred dollars at domain and some content, add your links to the money site and forget about them.

    You have to work on your entire network, building content and backlinks to everything so they are good quality sites which pass SEO value to your money site: if you make a PBN where all the network are money sites at least then everything makes money (that's what I did).

    Many internet marketers take shortcuts by buying expired domains with PR, but these are worthless, Google will delete the PR at the next update, so have not more value than a new domain. If buying domains with content be sure they haven't recently expired, I wouldn't buy a site that expired in the past 2 years and even then would want proof of decent traffic. BTW PR hasn't been updated this year, Google has moved away from frequent PR updates.

    So if the PBN is to have SEO value, it has to be a quality network that your average Internet user wouldn't know you built it for backlinks: AKA a 'real' site.

    IF you can find related sites to your niche for sale and they are reasonable quality, instant PBN.

    More hit and miss is link bait, when it works it's awesome, I've generated millions of backlinks through link bait. Don't have any good suggestions for the BDSM niche, anything I said on this would be a guess as I've been out of the niche for so long. Think about what would get you excited enough to link to another website.

    David
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

      Many internet marketers take shortcuts by buying expired domains with PR, but these are worthless, Google will delete the PR at the next update, so have not more value than a new domain. If buying domains with content
      Sorry Stallion but thats just totally wrong info.

      A) google does not delete PR because the domains are expired
      B) If a domain was expired for a long time it wouldn't have any PR because its fallen out of the index (not the same as being deindexed) not because of any action against the PR. Google just won't show Pr for sites that are no longer in their index.

      There are ton loads of great expired domains but they are grabbed up really quick so the ones left (like at expireddomains.net) are mostly junk because of that not because Google removes their PR
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