So will SEO'ers just start relying on historical data?

1SEOcom

9 years ago

You can use majestic.com and check them. Just be careful which sites you choose to use.

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hipeopo02 9 years ago

But the links you are checking are not showing accurate info. What are you checking at this point? Link quantity?

I'm doing more guessing about link profiles than I'd like to lately...
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- Mike Anthony 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by hipeopo02
  
  But the links you are checking are not showing accurate info. What are you checking at this point? Link quantity?.
  
  eventually you will have to rely on another metric like DA or PA to look at link profiles.
  
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SEO-Dave

9 years ago

You have made the assumption everyone is currently using PageRank as a major factor in deciding where to gain links.

Although PageRank is important, it's not the be all and end all of the value of a backlink. There's no value in a PR6 link if the domain has been penalized for selling links for example, it won't pass any SEO benefit.

If a site has been penalized it probably won't rank for anything even remotely competitive.

IME best way to determine the value of links is quality of rankings, if you are targeting a phrase the best links are from sites ranking high for those phrases. In a perfect world you would gain links from the top 10 for a SERP, but that rarely happens.

I no longer try to build backlinks, I create link bait (something worth linking to, the links tend to be better quality). If I were still chasing backlinks I'd look at my current rankings for SERPs and look for sites also ranking similar to my site.

Let's say I wanted to be number 1 for the phrase Cheap Text Links (currently number 2: I don't care about this SERP, just an example).

I'd analyze the pages ranked near mine (1, 3, 4, 5 etc...) and find the high quality ones, contact their owners and offer to trade links between the pages that are ranking for that SERP. I'd link from my high ranked page to theirs for a link back.

I would only trade links from and to the pages that are ranked, not a link directory or other crappy page and would offer a contextual link built into the content and would want the same back in return.

Since both webpages are targeting the same SERPs the links will benefit both sites significantly. You are linking to a page Google considers relevant to the SERP and you are gaining a link from a page Google considers relevant to the SERP.

If you have a page ranking number 25th for a phrase you are interested in, contact the websites ranked 20-30 and explain the benefit of you linking the pages together in a contextual way: both sites gain a lot. Do the due diligence, you only want trades with high quality sites.

David

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hipeopo02

9 years ago

so basically copy the competition and reach out to other webmasters. Yeah I guess there is no reason why that shouldn't still work regardless.

I guess the stem of my concern was more in expired domain buying. How accurate is the average link profile now? Even with multiple profiles from the same domain from different backlink checkers.

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SEO-Dave

9 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

so basically copy the competition and reach out to other webmasters. Yeah I guess there is no reason why that shouldn't still work regardless.

I guess the stem of my concern was more in expired domain buying. How accurate is the average link profile now? Even with multiple profiles from the same domain from different backlink checkers.

Why do webmasters still think expired domains retain their SEO power?

Google changed how it treats expired domains ages ago: this is from 2003 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/10036.htm (GoogleGuy is Matt Cutts BTW).

Unless Google reverted how it resets PR of expired domains they hold little if any SEO value. Last time I tested expired domains (many years ago) the PR reset and there wasn't any SEO benefit in owning them: content didn't rank any faster.

I don't see Google changing things back considering how many try to manipulate rankings buying expired domains.

Would love to see an expired domain that was PR7 two years ago that's even PR4 now without significant work on new backlinks. Of course you can rebuild the PageRank, but that's no different to starting with a new domain.

There must be webmasters here who before PR stopped updating have bought PR3, PR4, PR5, PR6 expired domains only to find months later (after a PR update) the PR is all gone even though the backlinks which created the PR still exist and they never generated any traffic from the domains.

I've read some say PR/SEO benefit is reset only if the content isn't related to the original site, or you can recover it by rebuilding the site with the old content (WayBack Machine): I've tested this, didn't work.

I've not seen an example yet where there's conclusive evidence any PR/rankings weren't down to new link building.

Only reason I might buy an expired domain with PR is to sell it to gullible newbies trying to take SEO shortcuts. Assuming PR doesn't update by January I'm letting some PR3 domains expire (SEO test sites that carry penalties) and I bet someone will register them thinking they'll benefit from the PR.

I look forward to all the I'm full of shit comments from those who sell PBN's etc..., yep, no vested interest there :-)

Note: I have no vested interested in convincing anyone not to buy expired domains. I no longer buy expired domains, I don't sell PBN's, just telling you how it is. Save your money, expired domains from a direct SEO perspective are a waste of money and time.

David

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hipeopo02

9 years ago

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

Google changed how it treats expired domains ages ago: this is from 2003 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/10036.htm (GoogleGuy is Matt Cutts BTW).

Yes, links have to be recrawled. Once they are recrawled the domain is reassessed. When PR was still being updated I had a few sites that dropped in PR (PR3===>PR2 and PR2===>PR1) My new rankings were based on the links that stuck after I put new content on the domain unless the few pages of content that I added to the domain were worth a PR2 rating in G's eyes hahaha...

I don't think expired domains lack any SEO value but it is clear to me that expecting to lose PR juice from expired domains after links are recrawled is common practice these days.

I try not to look at PR because as more time goes by it's becoming a useless metric but it was nice back in the day when it actually meant something.

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SEO-Dave

9 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

Yes, links have to be recrawled. Once they are recrawled the domain is reassessed. When PR was still being updated I had a few sites that dropped in PR (PR3===>PR2 and PR2===>PR1) My new rankings were based on the links that stuck after I put new content on the domain unless the few pages of content that I added to the domain were worth a PR2 rating in G's eyes hahaha...

I don't think expired domains lack any SEO value but it is clear to me that expecting to lose PR juice from expired domains after links are recrawled is common practice these days.

I try not to look at PR because as more time goes by it's becoming a useless metric but it was nice back in the day when it actually meant something.

Did you add new backlinks after buying the expired domains?

PR2, PR1 are easy, one new link can easily generate that level of PageRank, so if you built new backlinks the PR could be due to those.

To be sure you need an expired domain that had much higher PR when it expired (PR5+) and after re-registering there were no new links added and it didn't loose it's PR after at least one PR update. If after two PR updates or 6+ months without building new backlinks the PR has mostly held (PR4 for example) you have evidence the PR wasn't reset.

I did this test years ago with lots of domains, (PR3, PR4 and PR5 home pages) they lost their PR within a couple of PR updates (this was when we had public PR updates roughly every 3 months).

I've not seen a single test that held high PR, you'll see real examples like yours where at first viewing it sounds like some PR held, but the PR is so low (PR2) that one new link could generate the same result.

I bet no one here over the past 5 years has bought an expired PR6 that held even PR5 one year later UNLESS they built high quality backlinks which would account for the PR.

I've looked at some (not all before anyone comes in and says they hide their domains) of the sites the PBN sellers (those that deal with expired domains) here own and they are poorly ranked, if there was so much value in these expired domains why don't I see their sites in the SEO SERPs I target? If you can buy a PR7 expired domains and use it's PR they should be dominating the SERPs.

If it worked you could make a fortune, why on Earth would they sell PR4, PR5, PR6, PR7 domains cheap?

David

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hipeopo02 9 years ago

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

Did you add new backlinks after buying the expired domains?

Nope.

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

If it worked you could make a fortune, why on Earth would they sell PR4, PR5, PR6, PR7 domains cheap?

In my niche a PR5 was the highest PR on a domain Ive come across in the aftermarket. It was selling for $4000 which, although looked like a great domain (niche relevant with a killer backlink profile), was NOT worth $4000 to me at least.

Also it depends on what you do with the domains. "End users" like me build sites on them. I can't imagine what an expired domain does without any content on it. People swear by 301 tactics but it seems like G would cap that real quick.

Either way, I have noticed jumps in serps when I link my money sites to these repurposed domain sites. those jumps equaled money for me in the form of affiliate earnings.

Google analytics going dark and now bye-bye public PR updates. Slowly cutting off the flow of info is what G seems to be doing now.

Maybe one day the phrase "SEO is dead" won't be such a joke after all...
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nik0

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

Why do webmasters still think expired domains retain their SEO power?

Google changed how it treats expired domains ages ago: this is from 2003 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/10036.htm (GoogleGuy is Matt Cutts BTW).

Unless Google reverted how it resets PR of expired domains they hold little if any SEO value. Last time I tested expired domains (many years ago) the PR reset and there wasn't any SEO benefit in owning them: content didn't rank any faster.

Dude is getting more ridiculous every day.

Typical attention whore I suppose.

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

Why do webmasters still think expired domains retain their SEO power?

Google changed how it treats expired domains ages ago: this is from 2003 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/10036.htm (GoogleGuy is Matt Cutts BTW).

Unless Google reverted how it resets PR of expired domains they hold little if any SEO value. Last time I tested expired domains (many years ago) the PR reset and there wasn't any SEO benefit in owning them: content didn't rank any faster.

TOTAL ABSOLUTE,,,,CLEAR.....OBVIOUS....UNDENIABLE.....lo ad of junk. I have bought expired domains and they do not automatically lose PR when they expire

Stop junking up our SEO forum with your utter nonsense stated as fact

Would love to see an expired domain that was PR7 two years ago that's even PR4 now without significant work on new backlinks.

That because two years dormant the domain will lose links. Sheesh not because it was reset by Google.

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SEO-Dave 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

That because two years dormant the domain will lose links. Sheesh not because it was reset by Google.

That's not what I meant, never said anything about a domain being dormant for 2 years.

I meant a PR7 domain that had expired, gone to auction, someone acquired it 2 or more yeas ago (basically right after it was available). Quickly added content, so it was live again (minimal expired time).

I'd like to see a domain like that which still holds most of it's pre-expiration PR. PR6 home page would strongly suggest the PR didn't reset.

BTW using 2 years as the time frame since it's almost 1 year since the last PR update and need a couple of PR updates to be sure what the PR is.

Most recent public PR updates:

December 2013
February 2013
November 2012

If a domain was acquired 2 years ago it's gone through 2 public PR updates.

For those who have acquired expired domains with PR5+ two plus years ago have they tended to loose most of their PR by the last PR update (December last year)? Dropping to PR3 (easy to get to PR3) would suggest so.

When I did tests and didn't work on new backlinks the PR reset to 0. Because of this not seen the need to test recently.

BTW I didn't say the public PR resets when they expire, the public PR reports the pre-expired PR until a PR update, sometimes 2 updates depending on how close to the update the domain expired.

Public PR was always out of date by weeks/months even on the day it publicly updated: vaguely recall years ago someone ran tests and figured out public PR was 6-8 weeks out of date on the day it updated. Don't know if that was accurate, if it was the current PR we see is from October 2013.

David
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- Mike Anthony 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SEO-Dave
  
  I meant a PR7 domain that had expired, gone to auction, someone acquired it
  
  I had to stop right there because reading such cluelessness is too painful to keep on reading
  
  Domains that go through auction go there BEFORE they expire and if bought through auction do not expire at all.
  
  totally and absolutely clueless even of how the market works
  
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Calum Jones

9 years ago

David, I own a niche-relevant expired domain. I rebuilt the site. The pages get crawled faster (can tell by the cache date intervals) and get indexed a lot faster than they do on fresh sites. I do prefer to catch expiring domains though, if only it wasn't so difficult to find the decent ones.

By the way public PR is officially retired and is never ever being updated again. It's official.

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SEO-Dave

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Calum Jones

David, I own a niche-relevant expired domain. I rebuilt the site. The pages get crawled faster (can tell by the cache date intervals) and get indexed a lot faster than they do on fresh sites. I do prefer to catch expiring domains though, if only it wasn't so difficult to find the decent ones.

By the way public PR is officially retired and is never ever being updated again. It's official.

That's not proof Google passes any SEO ranking benefit to a domain that's expired.

Have you owned the domain for a couple of PR updates, did it maintain it's PR without you adding links that could account for the current PR?

Consider the links to an expired domain will still exist, Google can still find and follow them to the domain. If you bought an expired domain with a reported PR7 and it had half a million backlinks, that's half a million ways that domain can be found by Googlebot which a new domain won't have.

There's value in fast spidering and indexing, but it doesn't mean the content will rank higher. Ranking higher is why webmaster tend to spend a fair amount of money on expired domains with PR.

Spidering (Googlebot finding/roaming your site), Indexing (Google deciding what from your site to add to it's index) and Ranking (where in the index it shows up for relevant searches) are separate.

David

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Kevin Maguire

9 years ago

Originally Posted by SEO-Dave

Why do webmasters still think expired domains retain their SEO power?

Google changed how it treats expired domains ages ago: this is from 2003 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/10036.htm (GoogleGuy is Matt Cutts BTW).

Unless Google reverted how it resets PR of expired domains they hold little if any SEO value. Last time I tested expired domains (many years ago) the PR reset and there wasn't any SEO benefit in owning them: content didn't rank any faster.

David

The Green Mile Cheese slid off cracker - YouTube

Dave, there's no easier way of explaining it without educating you. And I don't want to do that to be honest.

You are mixing up what a domain buyers perception of what might be a bad domain "an old drop". With how Googles crawler would see an old dropped domain.

The crawler only reads a server response. It never pops over to whois to see if the site has a human owner. If Google where looking at Whois data, why would anyone need to index a site? At best it puts that failed page on a clock, to return a positive response after x crawls, days, weeks. Nothing to do with PR I'm afraid.

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Kevin Maguire

9 years ago

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire

oops............

The oops are nonstop with Dave. He clearly does not understand that auction domains do not expire, he has no knowledge of the countless people who have bought PR expired domains and kept PR (no one will burn up a domain in public just to deal with him) and he didn't even read his "source" - a Forum post.

It says changes to whois ARE NOT how the alleged algo would work and more importantly by the end of the thread he misses these observations

I suspect it's the former, that Google is unable to accurately discriminate between the old links and the new ones.

yes... it is obvious they cannot tell the difference between new links and old links. It would be much easier to just add a penalty and be done with it. Perhaps some new links this month would work for next month?...............................

It seems that the filter doesn't even work btw: I see lots of expired domains using the old PR to spam the index

So even his 11 year old source from a forum thread confirms it didn't work.

ooops indeed

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godoveryou 9 years ago

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godoveryou

9 years ago

For those who have acquired expired domains with PR5+ two plus years ago have they tended to loose most of their PR by the last PR update (December last year)? Dropping to PR3 (easy to get to PR3) would suggest so.

Not true, but what am I going to do... Post the URLs just to prove you wrong?

You've really managed to destroy this thread with crap advice 'SEO' Dave. There are some topics that you've proven that you should avoid and they seem to all be around link building... Since you're not going to go away (although several of us here really wish you would) just... Try to stop screwing up threads where you obviously don't have the experience to back it up.

Telling Mike and nik0 why they are wrong about expired domain based link building would be like writing a manual teaching me how to run a server farm for link spam.

The point is that you are really beginning to demonstrate how little you know as compared to individuals who specialize in a segment of the industry.... But that doesn't stop you. It's as if you either have no shame, always have to be right no matter what kind of ass it makes you look like, or just don't know any better.

It really doesn't matter in the long run. I've sat back, said nothing and watched the quality of the forum decline over the past 2 weeks - and you've been a part of what has helped that happen. Good job, 'SEO' Dave.

Maybe, just maybe, one day you'll be a real marketer too!

I can't wait to hear more about your clients. I'll make a pot of coffee and refresh the thread every 45 seconds in hope that you'll bless us with more of your war stories and vast experience. Oh, s'mores! Yes, s'mores... We should all gather around a campfire to hear your tales, but nothing too scary now... I don't want to have nightmares.

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SEO-Dave

9 years ago

Originally Posted by godoveryou

Not true, but what am I going to do... Post the URLs just to prove you wrong?

You've really managed to destroy this thread with crap advice 'SEO' Dave. There are some topics that you've proven that you should avoid and they seem to all be around link building... Since you're not going to go away (although several of us here really wish you would) just... Try to stop screwing up threads where you obviously don't have the experience to back it up.

Telling Mike and nik0 why they are wrong about expired domain based link building would be like writing a manual teaching me how to run a server farm for link spam.

The point is that you are really beginning to demonstrate how little you know as compared to individuals who specialize in a segment of the industry.... But that doesn't stop you. It's as if you either have no shame, always have to be right no matter what kind of ass it makes you look like, or just don't know any better.

It really doesn't matter in the long run. I've sat back, said nothing and watched the quality of the forum decline over the past 2 weeks - and you've been a part of what has helped that happen. Good job, 'SEO' Dave.

Maybe, just maybe, one day you'll be a real marketer too!

I can't wait to hear more about your clients. I'll make a pot of coffee and refresh the thread every 45 seconds in hope that you'll bless us with more of your war stories and vast experience. Oh, s'mores! Yes, s'mores... We should all gather around a campfire to hear your tales, but nothing too scary now... I don't want to have nightmares.

So what you are saying is if I don't agree with the regulars here I should be quiet because the regulars don't like it?

Could you get to gether with the others and list what I'm allowed to believe/post, don't want to upset you again :-)

If I get to 700+ posts will I be regular enough to be always right like you?

You make it sound like YOU own the forum and have some power over others, it's very funny.

If I'm so wrong why not prove it?

PM me some URLs that fit the description I'd consider proof or you consider proof. I have a very long term reputation to manage, if I posted your URLs online it would damage my reputation.

I do like people who rather than discuss the message, they attack the messenger. Shows their lack of ability to have a reasoned debate.

BTW What clients have I discussed? I haven't offered SEO services for years. Though that pot of coffee does sound nice :-)

David

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MikeFriedman

9 years ago

I've had a ton of sites I bought that retained their PR through 4-5 updates or more, ranging from PR 3 to PR 6.

I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that this happens.

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SEOCrate

9 years ago

PageRank hasn't been a good measuring tool for years now.

The future is to rely on backlink checkers (Ahrefs, Majestic, OSE) and analyze the data yourself.

You can also simply use basic analysis tactics, such as, how reputable or popular a website is.

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Kevin Maguire

9 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

Now that it's 99% certain that public PR updates are all done what solid info do SEO'ers have to go on? How can you check backlinks when you can't value a single link anymore from a PR perspective?

I should take the time to answer the OP.

To me this is all just one big joke, I mean did PR ever really play a factoring roll in query result I've competed for?

No, never, not even once for that matter.

The only thing between me and position #1 are the other sites competing for the keyword. Removing a page rating metric for me, removes it for them too, now what?

Nothing changes

My objectives remain the same, as do my abilities. Simply put, removing PR is a nuetral move, that will have no impact on much of anything. So all I have to do now is find better links and better places to get links from then my comp, Ok so what's changed since yesterday?

I know what a good link profile looks like, what good anchor text looks like, what a good page looks like, what webspam looks like, how to spot all sorts of things better then my comp.

And there's a shitonne of historical data laying around, that some crazy Russian armed with a laptop and a bottle of vodka, won't R/E. There was simply no huge monetary gains to be made from such a project as there would be now. I'd be hard pressed to think that such a heavily traded commodity would ever be let go so easily by so many industries built around it, without a sit down with a coder happening somewhere.

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hipeopo02 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire

So all I have to do now is find better links

Oh is that all?

"better?"

is that a new metric?
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timpears

9 years ago

You check http://majesticseo.com
You need to see what Trust Flow and Citation Flow. Check the anchor text to see if the links are spammy or a lot of Asian phrases not good. Check the backlinks to see what type of websites they get their links from.

Check Bulk Page Authority and Domain Authority Checker to see what PA and DA are.

Most important thing is to check the referring website and anchor text to make sure you are not seeing spammy links.

That is about the extent of my knowledge. There might be more, but if you verify those things, you should be pretty good to go.

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larrypaul

9 years ago

To check for more amount of back links there are various tools available like backlink checker, majestic SEO, Open Site Explorer all of which would help generate backlinks..

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