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Two pages with closely related keywords

by Caleb Papenhausen
18 replies
  • SEO
    • |
My home page keyword is "Knockerball MN". Is another page with the keyword "Minnesota Knockerball" too close? Would they "cannabalize" each other in your opinion?
#closely #keywords #pages #related
  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    The easiest way to answer that question is to search for each in Google and see if you get identical results.

    I should also suggest that pages do not "cannibalize" each other. One may rank higher than the other for either or both terms. I suppose a more important question is, is there any point in creating two totally different pages about the same exact thing?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

      I suppose a more important question is, is there any point in creating two totally different pages about the same exact thing?
      Really? think Silo structure for a moment.. page after page after page about the same subject. Replicating content based on topic / keyword is the name of the game. One piece of content targeting a specific term aint going to cut it as you get into mid to high comp terms. You have to learn how to build and point juice to pages you want propagated to the top. How do you do that? you write pieces of content targeting the same keyword and interlink them together - building and passing juice.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by Caleb Papenhausen View Post

    My home page keyword is "Knockerball MN". Is another page with the keyword "Minnesota Knockerball" too close? Would they "cannabalize" each other in your opinion?
    Those are technically 2 very separate keywords.. so you would actually want to create those pages.. but lets for the sake of discussion say the are "close". Why does it really matter.. one beats out the other and you have better positioning and get more traffic - either way, you win. what would be even better is if both pages ranked in the same serp listing.

    If the idea is to use content as your main vehicle to getting traffic, you want to duplicate and beyond pages that have terms you are wanting to target. Its in the inner linking that will actually make the juice flow into the directions you want. ( more advanced concept ) at the very least replicating content targeting the same keyword gives Google a better idea what your site is about. Nothing wrong with it at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Those are technically 2 very separate keywords.. so you would actually want to create those pages
      If you believe the full name of a state and the abbreviation for it are two different queries, I suppose you think a query with the numeral "1" is different than one with the word written out - "one". Likewise, a two word phrase with the words reversed isn't any different, either.

      If you check the search phrases, yes, the results are ever so slightly different because of the YouTube videos and a slight shift by one position at most. You should also notice that the same exact page is ranking for both for each website - not a different page.

      Better idea - how about optimizing your one page for both so that it shows up for both queries?

      I understand optimizing two different pages for different search terms like "golf clubs for sale" and "discount golf clubs". This is simply not that case!
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        If you believe the full name of a state and the abbreviation for it are two different queries,
        This has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe. This is straight up FACT... for the love of sliced bread.. do a search! there are actually 3 ways to search something local. Just the term itself ( plumber ) the term city and state abbreviation ( plumber San Diego CA ) and then finally term city and the state ( plumber san diego California ).

        Lets start looking at the 3 pack.The 3 that are listed don't always change but you will see the order they are displayed in change across the 3 possible methods for typing something in. Then you get into organic.. again changes may not be sweeping.. but there is without question differences

        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        I suppose you think a query with the numeral "1" is different than one with the word written out - "one".
        OMG.. really? do a search for "xbox 1" and "xbox one" look at the top 10 and come back and tell me the first page serps are exactly the same THEY ARE NOT

        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        Likewise, a two word phrase with the words reversed isn't any different, either.
        "red widgets" and "widgets red" NOT THE SAME.

        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        If you check the search phrases, yes, the results are ever so slightly different because of the YouTube videos and a slight shift by one position at most. You should also notice that the same exact page is ranking for both for each website - not a different page.
        Lets break down the red widgets example:

        Red widgets top 10

        Website devel
        thesaurus
        sitepoiint
        amazon
        ranks.nl
        nodered
        urbandroid
        books.google
        Wikipedia

        Then lets look at widgets red

        Widgets red top 10

        Website devel
        Amazon
        thesaurus
        ranks.nl
        urbandroid
        wolframalpha
        apple
        nodered
        popsci
        books.google

        Sure the "pages" may be the same... but just LOOK at the position shifts.. see that say Wikipedia falls all the way back to position 18 in the second search quarry.

        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        Better idea - how about optimizing your one page for both so that it shows up for both queries?
        So put red widgets and widgets red in your URL and your title and in the header and splitting the difference in image names and image alts... you would could and cant get equal value with splitting optimization.

        How about writing both pieces of content and inner link the 2 and start developing better context relationships within the content on your site?

        Here is the deal.. from the standpoint of doing SEO for someone else ( IE getting paid to do it ) the concept is just not reasonable. But when you are building a site for yourself, eeking out every last drop of traffic makes all the sense in the world.

        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        I understand optimizing two different pages for different search terms like "golf clubs for sale" and "discount golf clubs". This is simply not that case!
        Keep in mind.. I'm straight up old school.. ive been goofing with this crap since the mid late 90's back when keyword stuffing was an actual method to getting better rank. When making adjustments to a page and having to wait 3 to 6 months and in some terms a YEAR to wait for google to update the serps.

        Back when there was a difference between singular and plural ( there technically still is, but its is not as bad as back then ) you could either write content in all plural ( didn't always read to well ) or you could write content in both and once say your all plural page got decent rank redirect to the better reading page.

        Back before hrefs and moz and majestic.. back before there were even tools to display page rank. Back in the day when you wanted to get better rank you would have to go in and manually analyze the competition's page do search after search to locate some of the back linking back when SEO was WORK.

        Sure Google has come a long way... sure the tools have gotten better... but the cold reality is, is there still exists these minor anomalies that can be taken advantage of. IF every visitor counts how could you not take advantage of it? ( I am sure most wont... and that's the point - it can play out as an advantage )
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

        If you believe the full name of a state and the abbreviation for it are two different queries, I suppose you think a query with the numeral "1" is different than one with the word written out - "one". Likewise, a two word phrase with the words reversed isn't any different, either.

        If you check the search phrases, yes, the results are ever so slightly different because of the YouTube videos and a slight shift by one position at most. You should also notice that the same exact page is ranking for both for each website - not a different page.

        Better idea - how about optimizing your one page for both so that it shows up for both queries?

        I understand optimizing two different pages for different search terms like "golf clubs for sale" and "discount golf clubs". This is simply not that case!



        It's completely different SERPs for OPs keywords, matter of fact one is a Mega Sitelink with no ads which is the best you can possibly get.


        Notice the page title for the #1 ranked domain/page (KnockerBall Minnesota), they've branded the full state name (repetitive site wide). Most likely backlink anchor-text for exact keyword (brand name (Minnesota)).




















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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          It's completely different SERPs for OPs keywords, matter of fact one is a Mega Sitelink with no ads which is the best you can possibly get.


          Notice the page title for the #1 ranked domain/page (KnockerBall Minnesota), they've branded the full state name (repetitive site wide). Most likely backlink anchor-text for exact keyword (brand name (Minnesota)).
          And they say EMD is dead! LOL
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            And they say EMD is dead! LOL


            EMDs don't don't matter.

            The branding (Minnesota) can be be repeated on a bazillion pages and anchor-text.

            Folks around here tend to think all they should worry about is the Home page (EMD).
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              EMDs don't don't matter.

              The branding (Minnesota) can be be repeated on a bazillion pages and anchor-text.

              Folks around here tend to think all they should worry about is the Home page (EMD).
              yes around here EMD is way over shot.. but I would suggest in LOCAL. the rules may be a slight bit different. Look at local results in general... you see edm A LOT. A good portion of them are redirects - which I might add defies common SEO logic.

              But again general organic search EDM aint squat.. Keywords in the URL no matter where they are carry equal weight.

              And again with LOCAL the home page IS the only thing you have to worry about.
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        • Profile picture of the author Caleb Papenhausen
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          It's completely different SERPs for OPs keywords, matter of fact one is a Mega Sitelink with no ads which is the best you can possibly get.


          Notice the page title for the #1 ranked domain/page (KnockerBall Minnesota), they've branded the full state name (repetitive site wide). Most likely backlink anchor-text for exact keyword (brand name (Minnesota)).

          Should I then add Minnesota everywhere throughout the site?

          Also, I have the domain knockerballminnesota.net but I have not assigned it to anything yet. What file structure should I use when assigning it, "parked domain"?

          If you had to give me three things to focus on to win over the term Knockerball Minnesota, what would they be?
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Caleb Papenhausen View Post

            Should I then add Minnesota everywhere throughout the site?


            Minnesota is a keyword, so yes, use Minnesota on the site.

            Don't spam out the site with keyword stuffing.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOtraveler
    If you check the SERPs for both queries, you`ll see the same top results but slightly different starting from postion 5, so probably, you could manage to rank both pages. Still, two pages targeting almost the same keyword probably make you spread the internal links instead of concentrating them on one most relevant page, this also splits up backlinks between the pages wich lowers the number for each.

    However, in case one of the pages is your homepage - this shouldn`t be too confusing for the search engines to choose which one to rank higher. This also shouldn`t be an issue in case you only have two pages targeting similar keywords, and not a buch a of pages staffed with the very same keyword.
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    • Profile picture of the author Caleb Papenhausen
      Originally Posted by SEOtraveler View Post

      If you check the SERPs for both queries, you`ll see the same top results but slightly different starting from postion 5, so probably, you could manage to rank both pages. Still, two pages targeting almost the same keyword probably make you spread the internal links instead of concentrating them on one most relevant page, this also splits up backlinks between the pages wich lowers the number for each.

      However, in case one of the pages is your homepage - this shouldn`t be too confusing for the search engines to choose which one to rank higher. This also shouldn`t be an issue in case you only have two pages targeting similar keywords, and not a buch a of pages staffed with the very same keyword.
      One is my homepage. Would it be advisable to then create the page but make sure it points to the home page? And if so, if the page is say 500-1000 words, how many in text links is too many?
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelkoehler92
    NO they wont cannabalize each other. One thing that could happen is you could find both each page close to each other on SERP. SInce that happened with me.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    Seriously? As an example of proof you are going to use an invented nonsense word that nobody would ever really search for? I guess you answered everything savidge4 except the actual question. You did not show that there were DIFFERENT pages ranking for any of the keywords. There is some slight jostling of position but it is the same URL displaying for those websites.

    Go ahead, create a completely different, valuable page for the two terms that have the exact same meaning. I'm sure it will be a great website. Nowadays, you can create just one and optimize for all three.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

      Seriously? As an example of proof you are going to use an invented nonsense word that nobody would ever really search for? I guess you answered everything savidge4 except the actual question. You did not show that there were DIFFERENT pages ranking for any of the keywords. There is some slight jostling of position but it is the same URL displaying for those websites.
      Invented nonsense word? which one is that? red widget? with 28,000,000 million related pages or did you mean widget red? with 30,000,000 related pages. widget ANYTHING is far from made up... its actually a GREAT term based on its data sets.

      As for some slight jossling.... in the made up example I gave... there were pages removed from the top 10, and others introduced. If 90% of search traffic comes from page 1.. that's HUGE The traffic separation alone between 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 can be mind numbing. then throw in a local search into the mix and the change up in the 3 pack shifting from position 1 to 3 is what? a 300% fold difference?

      Oh wait.. maybe it was xbox one that was made up?

      Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

      Go ahead, create a completely different, valuable page for the two terms that have the exact same meaning. I'm sure it will be a great website. Nowadays, you can create just one and optimize for all three.
      Nowadays? if mediocrity is how you do business maybe.

      lets change this up a bit.. lets name a product say "Floral Print Halter Maxi Dress" and the searcher after making that search decides they want blue.. you do understand that the searcher will probably add the word "blue" to the existing search string right? So we now have a search for "Floral Print Halter Maxi Dress blue". Common thinking and general SEO is going to produce pages with titles and H1's and all that for the term "blue Floral Print Halter Maxi Dress" right? we can agree on that ( I sure hope so )

      Look at the serps in this one.. blue floral.. lulus is kicking tail and taking names - kinda impressive right... but what about the color flipped term... a term that probably still has high value because of the tendency to add things like color to the end of a search string. Yes Lulus is #1 here as well, but the multiple listings are gone...

      The best part about this total random selection of a search term is look at the linked product in Lulus #1 listing.. its not even BLUE In terms of Commerce.. that's just straight up death. People will see the other maybe related lulus links under the same serp and skip them because the #1 listing didn't have what they wanted why would the #3 and #4 listing have it?

      So here is the real question... if you have a #1 for the term "red widget" and based on analysis you see that your #8 listing for the same page under the term "widget red" is getting a decent amount of serp impressions but just not many clicks.. do you actually risk your #1 position for the probably more dominate term by tweeking it to rank better for the 2nd term or would it be safer to produce a new piece of content to go directly after the terms that is falling behind?

      In super low comp terms.. yes you can get multiple variant terms to rank pretty well with 1 page.. but once you get to where there may be a bit more comp, that task is not so simple. I find it easier to push a new page for ranking.

      And in terms of how my site looks... I personally keep track when I am developing variant term pages.. be it in woocoomerce or wordpress I will actually place the page as "hidden" within product or post listings, but maintain the page within the site map. Basically I am you know playing with this whole new concept called "landing pages"
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Papenhausen
    Also, I have a seperate site bubblesoccerminnesota.net on the same server, the knockerball site is in a subfolder. Would it be better to have it on an entirely different account/server.

    As you can see, I'm also second on those results too, but I get the local boxes to myself for those quiries. I started with this site and expanded to the knockerball site to capture that traffic only 2 months ago. Is is possible that the age of the site is playing a big role here for the Knockerball site still? Or does domain age not really make that much difference?
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I have had city + keyword and keyword + city.

    Google said the number of searches for the same.

    It showed the same page o' mine for both terms, in the same position.

    So, I got the same number of impressions for both terms. However, keyword + keywords got anywhere between 300 and 400% more clicks.

    These days, I'm #7 for the keyword; #3 for city + keyword, number 3 for keyword + city, number 7 for keyword plus city and state abbreviation; #9 for keyword + city and state name spelled out. All show the same page.

    I have the same page that targets the main city and pages that target surrounding cities... For some, Google shows both pages on page 1; for some it does not.

    What matters is a combination of how well I've optimized the page for the main city for the smaller city and how well I optimized the page for the small city for the small city and keyword combo.

    Because I can have 2 pages on page in SERP's, I create 2 or more pages for the same keyword (keyword + city, city + keyword, or word 1 and word 2 vs word 2 and word 1 (if people search that way). The result, I end up with more traffic and calls.

    In other words, my experience backs up Savidge.
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