How Google ranks - Interesting Thoughts.

11 replies
  • SEO
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Imagine the following:

You go on Google and type "Curry recipes", and up in the top results come several Internet Marketing sites because they feature an article about "Curry Recipes" somewhere...

Imagine you enter "Insurance" in Google, and the top position coming up is an entry at Oprah's site where she is giving some advice about life insurance.

Or you enter "SEO" in Google....how high is the chance that a myspace site is coming up featuring someone on myspace whose site is on SEO?

--> WILL NOT HAPPEN!

On one of my own sites (SEO, Affiliate Marketing related) i noticed i can rank pretty well with related keywords and content..IM stuff and reviews, adwords, keyword research. But how high is the chance that i put an article on my SEO BLOG which i could optimize for "The best Cooking Recipes"? --> ZERO

The thought behind this is that Google gives a site an authority in regards to a certain theme -this "authority" does not have ANYTHING to do with pagerank, by the way. Regardless whether your site has PR0 or PR7 - there must be a classification scheme which Google uses to attest relevancy to your site, and therefore hypothetical ranking potential in regards to content (like an article.)

I want to find about the criteria how Google gives sites such relevancy,which makes one site rank well for one subject, but not for another.

The questions here are:

-) Does Google "scan" a site and collect information, keywords and the overall theme and puts the site into a category, of some kind?

-) Or does this happen dynamically, eg. simply based on the fact how keywords will rank for a particular site, over time.
Example: Google doesn't really "know" about what a site is actually about, but in time the traffic and keywords, the ranking is what creates authority by itself...without google having a "record" of the site *per se*?

I was pondering those questions yesterday because there was this interesting WSO recently where the method is to analyse a site using ALEXA...analyze the keywords which drive traffic to a particular site.

For example: Squidoo, Ezine, Hubpages etc.

The theory behind this system is to assume that it is easier to rank on such a "general" web2.0 site (eg. ezine, squidoo etc.) using content which is targeted and optimized around such "high traffic keywords".

Example: An alexa keyword analysis would yield that Squidoo gets indeed MOST of its traffic for the keyword "mafia wars cheats". You can also check in Google, a Squidoo lens on the subject is indeed #1 for the phrase "mafia wars cheats".

Thought again:

In my opinion there is no doubt that Google gives sites an authority in regards to a subject, but this is not clear to me for general sites which can have ANY kind of subjects, like Squidoo or Ezine.

So does the fact that Squidoo ranks #1 for "mafia wars cheats" (plus lots of traffic going to Squidoo for this keyword) make Squidoo an "authority" on this subject?

Or does Google maybe give such "theme-authority" to some sites, but leaves those social web2.0 sites "neutral" with the potential that ANY subject *could* rank mediaum-high on them? (But never really OUTRANK a real authority site? Otherwise we would see myspace, hubpages, ezine occasionally outrank established "authority" sites - but this is hardly the case!)

In that vain also the thought that for a desired future high ranking of a keyword the best strategy is indeed to build a authority site first (eg. a wordpress blog) tightly around some topic, say "SEO". Then let the site establish itself, put content on it frequently. Sooner or later Google thinks that the site is highly relevant and the ranking possibility for a SEO subject is WAY higher than simply making a blogger blog about the same subject and hope that the blogger blog would rank! (Which it very likely wont)

And i am still debating whether according to that system with the keyword research using Alexa it would really be EASY now to rank on Squidoo for "mafia wars cheats" because Squidoo became an authority for this...so it must be easier to rank?!
#google #interesting #ranks #thoughts
  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    Have you tried posting a completely unrelated article to your blog and doing your standard SEO work on it? I think you might be surprised by the result.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      Have you tried posting a completely unrelated article to your blog and doing your standard SEO work on it? I think you might be surprised by the result.

      Andy
      Are you serious? Is this your experience? I might need to do some tests in that regard.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kennyh
    Google uses a number of factors to determine both relevancy and authority. It combines what you think your site is about ie the keywords you optimise for, with what others think it is about ie where backlinks come from and how they are described in anchor text.

    The authority of the linking site determines how much weight Google gives its 'opinion.' And the aggregate of the weighted backlinks and your own content determines Google's view of your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author dreamer111
    it is good to come out with these kind of experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author sherone
    Now I'm so confused about Almighty Google's Algo.
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Hi GeorgR.,

      While you have done an excellent job of laying out your position, I believe you are a bit off on the premise of website themes. But you are not off by much.

      Search engines do not consider the overall theme of a website per say, instead they consider the "web" in which your page is contained. That includes all the pages that you link to, as well as the pages that link to yours. While your "web" may contain many pages from your own website, it also may contain few or none at all.

      It's important to understand the fundamental concept that search engines rank web pages, not websites. They consider the "web" in which your page is contained, irrespective of your "website theme". That is why backlinks play an important role in influencing the relevancy of your web page to a particular keyword.

      Your website topic or "theme" could influence your page, but only to the extent that you have applied relevant internal links. This is one reason that your internal link structure can play a significant role in optimizing your web page. However, you are not dependent on internal links if you can find external links that are relevant. In fact you are likely to find even more benefit from external links. The best option is to use both relevant internal and external links.

      You should also consider the benefit from relevant outbound links. The keywords used in the anchor text of your outbound links have a substantial impact on the relevancy of your page. The combined influence of both inbound and outbound links make up all of the influence of your "web".

      That is why you can have a page, that is totally irrelevant to your website theme, rank very high for a keyword that is relevant to the "web" of pages that it is contained within. To see a few excellent examples of this look at Wikipedia.org, HowStuffWorks.com, eHow.com or About.com. These sites use internal link structure very effectively with keywords as anchor text to relevant internal and external pages. Some more examples would include EzineArticles.com, HubPages.com, Squidoo.com, Yellowpages.com, Youtube.com, Wordpress.com, Blogspot.com, NYTimes.com, etc...

      The bottom line is that you can influence your pages's relevancy score by placing links to and from relevant pages. Those pages do not need to be part of your website. Of course using your own website is easy and effective when done properly, but for competitive keywords you will need that extra power from external links to outperform your competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    By being aware of trustrank and how trusted sites/pages link to/from your own through topical relevancy (ie, basic LSI), you can rank for different subjects on pages that even link to internal pages on different subjectsYou can increase this if you are linking to and from related content on that subject on the page.

    You can also increase the influence of this "change" of subject by being aware of co-citation of links to your site.

    So the chances are far from zero if you are aware of what can influence Googles ranking decisions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post


    In my opinion there is no doubt that Google gives sites an authority in regards to a subject, but this is not clear to me for general sites which can have ANY kind of subjects, like Squidoo or Ezine.
    You are on to something with this but I am not certain its refined quite as narrowly as you state. Don't make anyone tell you that Google does not rank sites just pages. Its well known that the site your page is on has elevating factors. The exact term is domain authority. So the domain level can and is important - not just the page

    I've seen some evidence that there MAY be authority based on subject but in order to be positive about it you would have to isolate the other things that could cause the alleged affect.

    Lets say that Warrior forums ranks highly for a few IM related keywords (they actually do). Is it because it is seen as an authority on Internet marketing or because the content on the forum thread tends to have more related words for the keyword (leaving backlinks out of it as well as some threads have little or none.). In other words sites that are about a particular subject tend to cover those issues much better as far as a search engine is concerned.

    You'd have to define a way to separate those factors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amitywill
    Personally I don't think Google does look at the 'theme' of a site
    when it comes to getting a good ranking. Just look at wikipedia,
    about.com and all the other BIG sites that have information on
    all topics. Wikipedia ranks for everything yet it's not based on any
    one 'theme'.

    I've also got a review site that isn't based on any one theme but it
    has 97 pages on the first page of Google so whether you look at the
    big sites like wiki or the small sites like my one theme doesn't seem to
    be any considerable factor when it comes to ranking.

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Amitywill View Post

      Personally I don't think Google does look at the 'theme' of a site
      when it comes to getting a good ranking. Just look at wikipedia,
      about.com and all the other BIG sites that have information on
      all topics. Wikipedia ranks for everything yet it's not based on any
      one 'theme'.

      I've also got a review site that isn't based on any one theme but it
      has 97 pages on the first page of Google so whether you look at the
      big sites like wiki or the small sites like my one theme doesn't seem to
      be any considerable factor when it comes to ranking.

      Will
      Amytiwill, without knowing details (because i dont work for Google ) i think its actually more complicated and not always clear.

      For example: It was about a year (?) ago when Google did some significant (!) changes..maybe some of you remember. The changes involved basically to give certain sites a "default authority"...the keyword here was "branding".

      While, before that change, you could theoretically rank very well eg for "insurance" by doing some heavy SEO - now you see allstate, statefarm, and see MANY more edu and govs, and of course wikipedia and more of such "preferred" sites. ( I have no doubt that wikipedia might be one of those sites also. )
      They key here is that Google does INDEED have preferred sites, the rankings there do NOT follow our common "SEO Logic" - but come indeed to a big extent from whatever authority Google "gave" that site BEFORE any SEO is done.

      From that point of view this can also very much distort an analysis of ranking factors, their backlinks and so forth..simply spoken: Pepsi.com will ALWAYS be #1 for "pepsi"...

      The problem is that we don't really know whether eg. wikipedia has such a Google love - or whether wikipedia ranking results are more the result of "natural" factors like nr of backlinks which they certainly have also.
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