Value Page PR vs Domain PR in profile backlinking

14 years ago

Originally Posted by reynaerde

Hi there,

I'm pretty new to internet marketing so I hope this is not a silly question:

When you're building profile backlinks, would you rather focus on the pagerank of the domain or of the forum itself?
It seems that on some sites the forum has a way lower PR than the domain, is it still worth your while to put a profile there?
Or should I not focus so much on PR?

Focus on the pagerank of the domain.

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Shaktimaan

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Social-Media-Marketing 14 years ago

Originally Posted by shaktimaan

Focus on the pagerank of the domain.

This is absolutely incorrect. I suggest you read The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine (the blueprints for what became Google) as well as their patents on PageRank.

If a site is PR10 but you get a link from a PR0 page on that site then you got a PR0 link NOT a PR10 link. The PR of the page linking to you is divided over all of the outbound links from that page (NOT that site).
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- Tom Goodwin 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Social-Media-Marketing
  
  The PR of the page linking to you is divided over all of the outbound links from that page.
  
  I know this wisdom spouted by many SEO "gurus" out there. Heck, it sort of makes sense that it *should* work like that.
  
  BUT, when you actually look at how many sites are getting PR, this is certainly not this case. Terry Kyle and I have been studying domains for sale (checked for fake domain, etc.), including purchasing quite a few over the past couple of months.
  
  What has really shocked us, is how many sites that we are looking at (in the PR4-5 range), appear to be getting almost all of their link juice from one or only a handful of inbound links. Guess what? On almost all of these pages there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of do-follow outbound links on those pages. If the link juice really was divided by the number of outgoing links, these sites would not have any PR (or least not the PR that they do have).
  
  I'm not saying that there might not be some decrease in link juice the more outgoing links, but the common wisdom that link juice degrades rapidly when the number of outgoing links increases appears to be false in our research.
  
  Tom
  
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jasonmorgan

14 years ago

Focus on the pagerank of the domain.

Wrong.

Focus on the pagerank of the actual page your link is on.

Read this posting, it touches on this issue a little bit and it's coming from the mouth of someone way better at this stuff than I am.

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Tom Goodwin 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Wrong.

Focus on the pagerank of the actual page your link is on.

Or perhaps both?

I personally combine profile links on high PR domains with no PR on the actual page, with a handful of decent PR page comments or whatnot, and that combo usually works exceptionally well for me.

Certainly one can rank very well with entirely PR NA pages. I do it all the time.
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bucketheads

14 years ago

I think too many people focus on PR more than they should.

Surprisingly there are a lot of people that would give up 9 related links with low PR for one high PR link. To me this is not a great idea, especially when you can get a link from all of these sites.

But if you are gonna focus on PR, I am pretty sure it is based on the page that the link is on and not the domain.

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kkchoon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by shaktimaan

Focus on the pagerank of the domain.

I second you on this opinion, let me explain a bit in the next section...

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Wrong.

Focus on the pagerank of the actual page your link is on.

Read this posting, it touches on this issue a little bit and it's coming from the mouth of someone way better at this stuff than I am.

The posting you refer to tells you this -

Get "quality link", by definition, a quality link is with direct PR (the higher the better), and the closest to the domain the better, plus only had 1 OBL to your desinated page!

That's what Daniel refer to as quality link!

Think about this - does Angela & Paul backlinks qualify as "quality links"? Nope! there is not one WSO profile link packet qualify Daniel's definition.

Why does he still think Angela backlinks work? The answer is simple - Even if you can't get the best quality backlinks, with the combination of many High domain PR links, you still get the same effect as 1 quality link!

I did ask Daniel to show us some tips for harvesting quality link, however, even with his new tool, we still have to boost the PR in someway.

If this is the case, using Angela backlinks + backlink booster should have similar effect.

As for me, I still rely pretty much on profile backlinks, and from time to time it work for me! High domain PR links will gain PR overtime, that's why Angela's backlink alone works so well!

Originally Posted by Social-Media-Marketing

This is absolutely incorrect. I suggest you read The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine (the blueprints for what became Google) as well as their patents on PageRank.

If a site is PR10 but you get a link from a PR0 page on that site then you got a PR0 link NOT a PR10 link. The PR of the page linking to you is divided over all of the outbound links from that page (NOT that site).

Nope, he is correct on this one.

A direct PR page link will always be better than no PR page link, even with the domain PR is high.

That's why Daniel prefer backlinks with PR, not backlinks with Domain PR.

This doesn't means Angela backlinks don't work! It just mean 1 direct PR link will be a lot better than No PR profile link!

My question is - How do you get those "quality link"? Is it easy to acquire?

If profile links is totally useless, how can it boost our PR?

Same to XRumer here, if a blast of XRumer would boost your backlinks, doesn't it do the same to your page?

You see, what is the real problem with XRumer, why does it cause so much trouble to new site?

Reason: The number of links you gain over time vs The number of links you lost!

One of the biggest problem with XRumer is - You get 10K links today, and you lost 9.5K tomorrow! That's a big flag to Google - You are spammer!

Even so, and established website won't be affected much, because of the trust rank it gained over a period of time.

Originally Posted by bucketheads

I think too many people focus on PR more than they should.

Surprisingly there are a lot of people that would give up 9 related links with low PR for one high PR link. To me this is not a great idea, especially when you can get a link from all of these sites.

But if you are gonna focus on PR, I am pretty sure it is based on the page that the link is on and not the domain.

Suggest to me a way to find these quality link?

Profile link with High Domain PR is the easiest way to get backlinks, and it work for me.

I agree to Daniel a quality link is far more valuable than a profile link, but who cares if my link is not a "quality link"? As long as it work for me, in the long run!

Why do we emphasizes high domain PR link?

1. High PR domain passes more link juice than low PR domain
2. High PR domain passes higher trust rank, and new site / new page need certain amount of trust rank
3. High PR domain links always counted by Google, while most lower PR domain links will be filtered!

This are my conclusion of profile backlinks.

See Angela backlinks for more testimonials...

Kok Choon

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jasonmorgan

14 years ago

The posting you refer to tells you this -

Get "quality link", by definition, a quality link is with direct PR (the higher the better), and the closest to the domain the better, plus only had 1 OBL to your desinated page!

That's what Daniel refer to as quality link!

Think about this - does Angela & Paul backlinks qualify as "quality links"? Nope! there is not one WSO profile link packet qualify Daniel's definition.

Why does he still think Angela backlinks work? The answer is simple - Even if you can't get the best quality backlinks, with the combination of many High domain PR links, you still get the same effect as 1 quality link!

I did ask Daniel to show us some tips for harvesting quality link, however, even with his new tool, we still have to boost the PR in someway.

If this is the case, using Angela backlinks + backlink booster should have similar effect.

As for me, I still rely pretty much on profile backlinks, and from time to time it work for me! High domain PR links will gain PR overtime, that's why Angela's backlink alone works so well!

In other words...

a quality backlink page (according to Daniel) has pagerank, the higher the better and the fewer outbound links the better.

Profile backlinks like what Angela and you offer would be considered low quality backlinks. This doesn't mean they don't work (we all know they do) but they are a quantity of quality approach.

There is no evidence that the pagerank of the domain has any effect on the value of a pagerank N/A page unless internal linking allows pagerank from the domain to filter down to the N/A page.

As a means of artificially creating higher quality backlinks, backlink-boosting is used.

The post I liked too and what Daniel said back up what I stated.

Focus on the pagerank and quality of the page you're backlink is on.

If it is a low quality backlink then use a means of backlink-boosting to turn it into a higher quality backlink.

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reynaerde 14 years ago

great info, thanks everyone!
One more question: by boosting your backlinks, what exactly do you mean?

I thought it was more a matter of making sure your profile page got crawled/indexed? Or should you try to get good links to your backlinks? Like get profiles to point to your OTHER profile links? that seems like a LOT of work.. or is there a simpler way?
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poker princess

14 years ago

By increasing quality backlinks you will see a rise in PR as well as a good amount of increase in your traffic.

Basically concentrate on traffic and not PR. If you are looking for some quality backlinks find some in your niche which has some decent traffic.

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kkchoon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

In other words...

a quality backlink page (according to Daniel) has pagerank, the higher the better and the fewer outbound links the better.

Profile backlinks like what Angela and you offer would be considered low quality backlinks. This doesn't mean they don't work (we all know they do) but they are a quantity of quality approach.

It depends on how you define quality backlinks.

Daniel never said Angela backlinks is "low quality", it just don't have the quality of a direct PR page.

One important thing for the quality backlink - How do you get it? Where do you get it? Buy it?

In theory, these kind of backlinks are very good, but you can only obtain it through - white hat method, link building doesn't really exists!

If you think building bunch of low quality backlinks to boost your backlinks into high quality backlinks, that's what you call high quality backlink...

I am not sure that's a good way to proceed, the reason is simple, if you can boost your backlinks, why don't you boost your site directly?? Does it justify the time and work to boost your backlinks while you can just boost your site directly?

Don't forget this - link juice degraded when you boost it through another site.
Anyone who used Angela backlinks would know this - they work rather well, as compared to many types of backlinks:

1. Better than Article backlinks
2. Better than Bookmarking backlinks
3. Better or similar to comment backlinks

I'm not making this up, I can send tons of article, bookmarking and comments backlinks to my page and see the ranking rise, but only needed a few of Angela backlinks to move those page up!

What Daniel referring is High Quality backlinks, and Angela backlinks is considered Quality backlinks; Article, Bookmarking and Comment will be considered normal backlinks.

Low quality backlinks will be something like XRumer service - Low Domain PR with low stick rate - that's low quality backlinks.

Until today, you are the first to call Angela backlinks - low quality!

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

There is no evidence that the pagerank of the domain has any effect on the value of a pagerank N/A page unless internal linking allows pagerank from the domain to filter down to the N/A page.

As a means of artificially creating higher quality backlinks, backlink-boosting is used.

The post I liked too and what Daniel said back up what I stated.

If what you said is true, Daniel would not said that Angela backlinks work!

We can do simple experiment on this:

I'll send tons of N/A page link from high PR domain, in your theory, these kind of links shouldn't work, it should not raise the page ranking, right?

But my experience tells me otherwise, Angela backlinks does work! I can easily rank for low to medium competition keyword, what do you think about this?

Some higher competition keywords need mixing of link type, when join force together with Linkvana, the effect increases dramatically!

What I suspect is this - Google implement filter to those N/A page link, only when your page has multiple type of backlinks, those N/A page link starts to count.

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Focus on the pagerank and quality of the page you're backlink is on.

If it is a low quality backlink then use a means of backlink-boosting to turn it into a higher quality backlink.

Until now I've yet see how to find massive "high quality backlinks", can you share some tips for us to find these backlinks?

If you think boosting those backlinks to turn into higher quality backlinks is the way - why not just directly boost your page? Because if you are using the "low quality" backlinks to boost your backlinks and it works, why not directly send it to your page to boost your pagerank?

If those "low quality" backlinks doesn't work, why does it able to boost your backlinks... this doesn't make sense.

What I think is - Google implement some kind of filters for N/A links, only in certain condition those links will be counted, what we need is to make it count!

Boosting links is one way to go, expensive way!

Originally Posted by reynaerde

great info, thanks everyone!
One more question: by boosting your backlinks, what exactly do you mean?

Daniel suggested XRumer can do the tricks. However, I think you can use any kind of backlinks to boost the backlink itself!

Originally Posted by reynaerde

I thought it was more a matter of making sure your profile page got crawled/indexed? Or should you try to get good links to your backlinks? Like get profiles to point to your OTHER profile links? that seems like a LOT of work.. or is there a simpler way?

I just don't think backlink to backlink justify the time and effort - but this I might be wrong. Unless boosting those backlinks is the only way to make your link count, I would rather boosting my page directly!

Kok Choon

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reynaerde

14 years ago

Thanks a lot again for your great answers, this is really helpful!

Thanks

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Value Page PR vs Domain PR in profile backlinking

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