Can I outrank ANY website, simply by doing more?

14 years ago

I truly believe that I do more than a number of my competitors and I have yet to outrank them...it might be a matter of time...either that or page rank/domain age has a LOT more to do with it than I'm realizing. I am up against some competitors that no nothing about IM, have NO backlinks to their site, NO paid ads, etc. but they've been around for awhile so they've stayed ahead of me in rankings...I'm hoping that will change soon though. Only been in this niche for 3 months so we shall see...

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mattlaclear

14 years ago

It's all about the quality of your backlinks too. So if your comp is hitting PR5 sites and you're hitting PR8's and above you'll end up winning the battle. So the idea is to focus on getting those high pr links as well as getting dofollow backlinks on .edu and .gov domains.

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Adam Roy

14 years ago

I was always curious about the whole impact of a domains age on SE rankings.

I mean who's to say because a site with all the same stats, but years older is any better than the next?

That's pretty much how I feel about it.

I mean take "make money online" for example. Type that into google and look at the first result....No noobie or anybody else is going to learn anything too unique or useful on that website.

However it's old and has a crapload of backlinks...

SEARCH ENGINE SPIDERS ARE ASSHOLES AND I'D SQUASH THEM AND MAKE IT RAIN FOREVER IF I COULD!

I've always been curious about how to get .gov and .edu backlinks.

How do people find those?

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JamesMSpacey 14 years ago

Originally Posted by friend

I've always been curious about how to get .gov and .edu backlinks.

How do people find those?

You could always go blackhat and hack into government websites and write your own link!

The easiest way to start getting these is to look for .gov/.edu sites with forums, blogs and profile pages you can set up. Just do a few Google searches for "inurl:.gov+inurl:blog" etc
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JamesMSpacey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by friend

How do I determine EXACTLY what needs to be done to outrank a particular competitor for a keyword phrase?

SEO Elite or similar software will tell you how the #1 positioned site got there (ie what sites their backlinks are on and what their on page SEO is like) and then all you have to do is do what they've done and a little bit more. Of course, if they have 1 million PR4 backlinks you're going to be struggling!

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DougBarger

14 years ago

There are other factors too.

Here's one for example:

Simply registering your domain name for 2 years, instead of 1
can give you the edge (because you appear to be there for "the long haul"
instead of just grabbing a quick domain, if that makes sense.)

So if all other factors remain equal, domain age and length of registration
can give you preference.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DougBarger

Simply registering your domain name for 2 years, instead of 1
can give you the edge

Another bit of common nonsense propagated by companies selling domain registration. Google's primary algorithms, from what I've observed, don't take any domain ownership data into account.

To answer the original question...

If you want to see how it's done for a highly competitive niche, Google on 'make money online' and take a look at Moola Days. That site was started in 2009 and rather rapidly went to page #1 for this highly competitive term.

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DougBarger

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Another bit of common nonsense propagated by companies selling domain registration. Google's primary algorithms, from what I've observed, don't take any domain ownership data into account.

To answer the original question...

If you want to see how it's done for a highly competitive niche, Google on 'make money online' and take a look at Moola Days. That site was started in 2009 and rather rapidly went to page #1 for this highly competitive term.

You may think it is non-sense based on your own limited observations,
but the fact of the matter remains, it has come from very reliable sources
and not domain registration companies alone either.

In fact, in the patent awarded to Google, this very issue was determined
to be a factor

in weeding out those website owners who were not as committed to their domains as not being as legit as those who registered for longer periods of time.

There are plenty of documented supports for this and not just based on my own experience.

Here is one article addressing the issue and going into more depth
as to why length of registration is considered to be a factor Google uses
in determining the legitimacy of websites.

http://www.searchengineguide.com/bil...-your-rank.php

Let's face it. You can say all you want to about it,

but if Google doesn't deem your site as "legit" as your competitor,
it doesn't take rocket science to determine which site
gets the edge.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DougBarger

You may think it is non-sense based on your own limited observations,
but the fact of the matter remains, it has come from very reliable sources
and not domain registration companies alone either..

Sorry, but this is total Cargo Cult SEO BS. Why don't you actually do some testing for yourself rather than regurgitating second hand stuff used to con people into buying stuff they don't need through a GoDaddy affiliate link?

Here's what you do to test...

Go buy some domains that have been dropped and deleted by ICANN. Make sure that in their previous life they were used for BANS, YACG or something else that Google hates and they were deindexed. Try to get them reindexed as if they were new domains.

Second, do like Mooladays and register a domain for 1 year at first. Go get links like crazy, especially good solid authority links. See if you get a 'penalty' or not.

Bottom line, Google doesn't track registration information in their primary algorithm, drops, ownership changes, ownership length, etc. They do use it as a secondary algorithm for reinclusion requests and in some other instances that involve manual or semi-automated processes.

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DougBarger

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Sorry, but this is total Cargo Cult SEO BS. Why don't you actually do some testing for yourself rather than regurgitating second hand stuff used to con people into buying stuff they don't need through a GoDaddy affiliate link?

Here's what you do to test...

Go buy some domains that have been dropped and deleted by ICANN. Make sure that in their previous life they were used for BANS, YACG or something else that Google hates and they were deindexed. Try to get them reindexed as if they were new domains.

Second, do like Mooladays and register a domain for 1 year at first. Go get links like crazy, especially good solid authority links. See if you get a 'penalty' or not.

Bottom line, Google doesn't track registration information in their primary algorithm, drops, ownership changes, ownership length, etc. They do use it as a secondary algorithm for reinclusion requests and in some other instances that involve manual or semi-automated processes.

No to all 3 of your insults based on false premises, namely:

1.No BS.
2.No con
3.No godaddy affiliate link

Don't assume I haven't done my own testing and I don't appreciate
your insinuations, personal attacks or presuming "motives" other than
sharing what I believed could be helpful to take in consideration
when registering domains for the exact purposes I have already stated.

It's fine to share your opinions in the discussion, but when you go
trying to insinuate someone is helping for reasons which aren't true,
then you have crossed the line from discussion and into personal attack.

And it's simply not true.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DougBarger

It's fine to share your opinions in the discussion, but when you go
trying to insinuate someone is helping for reasons which aren't true,
then you have crossed the line from discussion and into personal attack.

That's because I get so freakin' tired of cargo cult SEO know-it-all's like you who read something somewhere on a popular SEO blog where the objective is to sell products/memberships and/or get affiliate link clicks and then regurgitating either limited information or just outright nonsense here. If you want to call me calling you out for spreading false information that you, by your own admission, heard second/third hand a 'personal attack', fine.

Bottom line, once again, just to see if you can actually listen, Google does not track domain registration information in their primary ranking algorithms.

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Clint Butler

14 years ago

The short answer is Yes you can outrank any of those number one sites in such hard keywords as Make Money Online, Weight Loss, etc etc but it is going to take time, link building, proper star alignment and a host of other things that even the best of us can't really predict. Today its content and backlinks that are most important, tomorrow it could be whether or not your paying Google to do your SEO. That is why everyone tells you to go after the easier keywords, its realistic, and if your just starting out and you go after Make Money Online, your going to get frustrated because you won't get page 1 or even page 10 any time soon without a great deal of work. Do yourself the favor, learn how to get into the long tail keywords page 1 rankings then as you get better and better go after the big boys.

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Adam Roy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Butler

The short answer is Yes you can outrank any of those number one sites in such hard keywords as Make Money Online, Weight Loss, etc etc but it is going to take time, link building, proper star alignment and a host of other things that even the best of us can't really predict. Today its content and backlinks that are most important, tomorrow it could be whether or not your paying Google to do your SEO. That is why everyone tells you to go after the easier keywords, its realistic, and if your just starting out and you go after Make Money Online, your going to get frustrated because you won't get page 1 or even page 10 any time soon without a great deal of work. Do yourself the favor, learn how to get into the long tail keywords page 1 rankings then as you get better and better go after the big boys.

I'm all over those long tails

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Vis

14 years ago

Don't focus on backlinks solely for ranking... Keep using long tailed keywords, original unique content and corrent page SEO. Over time you will get ahead of the competitors as long as you keep bringing fresh updated original content and your visitors coming exactly for that.

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Tron2k

14 years ago

Good advice thanks for this!

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Kella Bella

14 years ago

I'm gonna have to say no only because I thought the same thing so I looked up some sites on seospyglass for a few places showing up in the top 3 searches and I found a few where sites 1 and 3 had about 2000 backlinks but site 2 only had 10-I still don't get how it got ranked but that alone shows ya that links alone don't make the site.

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Jusiam

14 years ago

Try to buy a domain with the keyword that you are targeting.Also check the level of competion, especially the domain age and the PR of the competing sites. I usually check the first two pages of the search engine. This will give you an idea whether to go for the phrase.

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paulgl 14 years ago

For a very small, limited number of niches, yes.

But google is not stupid. They have authority sites that
they will love, and continue to love. Just you doing "more"
will never unseat them. Google does not work like that.

Paul
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GeorgR.

14 years ago

Can I outrank any site in the SE's simply by providing more of the following than the #1 result?

All Keyword phrases in all the right places for on page seo.

All Proper internal link structure and use of LSI's

More backlinks to the particular page ranking in the SE's

If I have all of these things in place...What would be preventing me from acheiving #1 results?

I would actually say its possible "in theory", one factor which could be a problem is domain age of competing sites. IF you compete against some very established 7 year old site it will be very hard to outrank such sites.

The other factor is that Google has "tagged" some sites in some niches as "untouchable" authorites where it might be 100% impossible to outrank them. (Aka "branding". Eg. Try to outrank the big insurance companies like allstate, or try to rank for pepsi or coca-cola

Google assigned those sites ultimate authority and there is no way that you can outrank allstate for "insurance"... their status is "fixed" in Google so to speak)

But otherwise i DO think its basically possible just by keeping consistent....people do this all the time.

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jasonmorgan

14 years ago

The short answer is Yes you can outrank any of those number one sites in such hard keywords as Make Money Online, Weight Loss, etc etc but it is going to take time, link building, proper star alignment and a host of other things that even the best of us can't really predict.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I'm gonna have to say no only because I thought the same thing so I looked up some sites on seospyglass for a few places showing up in the top 3 searches and I found a few where sites 1 and 3 had about 2000 backlinks but site 2 only had 10-I still don't get how it got ranked but that alone shows ya that links alone don't make the site.

The internet is not transparent. Just because you can't see backlinks doesn't mean they aren't there. This has nothing to do with black-hat techniques. It's smart and clever webmasters covering their tracks.

But google is not stupid. They have authority sites that
they will love, and continue to love. Just you doing "more"
will never unseat them. Google does not work like that.

I don't believe this.

I would actually say its possible "in theory", one factor which could be a problem is domain age of competing sites. IF you compete against some very established 7 year old site it will be very hard to outrank such sites.

Domain age is only a piece of the puzzle. And there is nothing stopping someone from investing in an aged domain.

The other factor is that Google has "tagged" some sites in some niches as "untouchable" authorites where it might be 100% impossible to outrank them. (Aka "branding". Eg. Try to outrank the big insurance companies like allstate, or try to rank for pepsi or coca-cola

Google assigned those sites ultimate authority and there is no way that you can outrank allstate for "insurance"... their status is "fixed" in Google so to speak)

So you're saying that Geico or another major insurance company could never rank #1? I don't buy this either.

In short, can you rank #1 for any keyword. No. You don't have the resources, money or knowledge (and this goes for all of us) but you can rank very well for a lot of keywords that many believe are out of reach.

It all depends on how bad you want it.

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kkchoon

14 years ago

Hey guys, start a new thread, setup the test by purchasing aged domain and proves other wrong. Taking action better than just confusing everyone.

Most of the time both are right - you just said it from different perspective, only the test can clearly tell the truth.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kkchoon

Hey guys, start a new thread, setup the test by purchasing aged domain and proves other wrong. Taking action better than just confusing everyone.

Most of the time both are right - you just said it from different perspective, only the test can clearly tell the truth.

Yep, it's all a matter of perspective where the cargo planes will land.

YouTube - Cargo Cult

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Can I outrank ANY website, simply by doing more?

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