Whinging about Mayday Google Update

20 replies
  • SEO
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So many people seem to be whinging about Google and their Mayday update.

Quit it! Why? Nothing has changed! The core fundamentals are still there! People just ignore them - bit like blind leading the blind. Someone says to blast a number of links off an automated platform - and all follow.

But noone actually thinks - SURPRISE SURPRISE.

CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT!

What has google been talking about for the last 18 months? What has been their key strategic direction when it comes to information free flow?

Clue?

CONTENT > CURRENT > FAST : RANKINGS


You have content that is new, related, current and informative to your niche - YOU WILL RANK!!!

It is actually funny now to see all these "SEO Specialists" [read: "ive got a degree in marketing and think I can con people but am clueless"] panic as all of a sudden over the past 2 weeks their efforts on building links arent altering rankings for their clients......lets blame Google!

Google are smart - this change was for the better.

Now hopefully - the crap from the market will either go bankrupt or just fizzle away to get into another Fad

Oh I like the village idiots still creating profile links and trying to make money off it by selling it as a service!

Christ
#google #mayday #update #whinging
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Oh Really?

    Do a search for "search engine" and the first result is "Dogpile"

    Yes, it is a B F Dogpile to us all!
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    • Profile picture of the author jayuk76
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Oh Really?

      Do a search for "search engine" and the first result is "Dogpile"

      Yes, it is a B F Dogpile to us all!


      You have just proved my point

      Dig into their content - now do you REALLY think their content would be linked if it was NOT fresh, current and viral?

      NO should be the answer you are looking for.

      Again - CONTENT - the links are all self serving based on content from the site.

      Bear in mind I am not saying DONT link build - I AM saying make the links of credible and related value.

      With the algo change with Google its pretty clear they are looking at content that is current.

      Want an example?

      Ahh sod it cant be asked....

      Need some food.
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    • Profile picture of the author dvduval
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Oh Really?

      Do a search for "search engine" and the first result is "Dogpile"

      Yes, it is a B F Dogpile to us all!
      Interesting that "search engine" isn't even in their title tag.
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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    Links are still a core, fundamental aspect of Googles ranking algorithm and will be for a long time, so links are by no means "dead", nor are they a waste of time.

    That said, Google is getting consistently better - and I personally believe just leapt forward quite significantly with the latest update(s) - at using its own judgement to "understand" content and detecting what content is relevant to certain keywords, and just what content is better full top.

    Now, before people shoot me for saying that and go on to say "prove it", just conisder the following points.

    Googles aim is to match people inputting a search query to the most relevant and *useful* content available to satisfy said search.

    In times when webpages about a specific topic / keyword phrase may be somewhat scarce and hence competition not that great, your somewhat thin, nonsensical "filler" content may be the best Google can offer up to a searcher. In that case, get the most/best links and you will win.

    For more competitive queries however, simply having the most links or a greater link velocity than other competing websites may not ever be enough to rank you in the top position, if your content still looks somewhat primitive, thin or less informational than that of other competing sites.

    In such instances, I believe Google is getting wise enough to make it's own judgement about that content based not only on the amount or strength of incoming links, or such things as keyword density.

    The links/votes based system of ranking is obviously open to manipulation and the number of people getting wise to how it works is ever-increasing. Although their PageRank mechanism goes so far to value links differently (for better or "worse"), making it a little harder for people to rank highly for competitive terms simply by link spamming (given that finding and building high PR links isn't something that can really be automated with ease, unlike is the case with low quality links), it is not the be all and end all anymore.

    If Google ever wants to truly be able to determine the best and most useful content for any given search, it needs a human-like judgement, and although that may not be possible for a long time to come (if ever), they are certainly focusing heavily on developing systems/algorithms to be able to make a relatively primitive guesstimation of whether a piece of content looks to be the best and most suitable, and whether it is deserving of the number of links it has relative to the age and quality of content (together with the number and quality of links pointing to *that* content) available on competing websites.

    Google is probably never going to (or at least, not for a long time) shift away from ranking content based heavily on links and PR / overall domain authority, but they are making progress towards being able to scrutinize content on a case-by-case basis to determine if a site looks genuinely deserving of the linkage it obtains in comparison to other sites, and whether it is wise to rely on that data to determine the ranking or not.

    The fact of the matter is, we've moved away from being able to manipulate Google by keyword spamming alone. The "number of votes" linking system made that more difficult. Thanks to PageRank, we've moved away from being able to easily manipulate rankings in many cases simply by link spamming to obtain the most links (without raising red flags with Googles spam team), since not all links are equal anymore. But with the development of complex systems and peoples willingness to sell links from high PR sites, that is no longer (if it has ever been) a "foolproof" way to determine rankings.

    The more Google does to make it harder for us to "cheat" our way to the top position, the more straight forward and logical the need for truly quality, information-rich, relevant, natural content.

    With every update Google is getting closer to that goal. It is coming to the point - if we aren't already at it - where trying to cheat top rankings using "technical methods" becomes harder than simply doing deep research and writing (or paying someone else to write) truly great content that adds value to and solves our visitors queries.

    When every webmaster/publisher publishes consistently good, well-researched content, the need to determine which deserves to be at the top will become somewhat moot, since all content on the first page(s) is likely to be as good as the competitions. Then it's really just down to people to vote - through links or any other means - to determine their overall favourite which will end up in the top spot.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jacob Martus
      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

      When every webmaster/publisher publishes consistently good, well-researched content, the need to determine which deserves to be at the top will become somewhat moot, since all content on the first page(s) is likely to be as good as the competitions. Then it's really just down to people to vote - through links or any other means - to determine their overall favourite which will end up in the top spot.
      Very well said. And I believe that is the case in many markets already. The top 10 or even 20 are full of great content so the only way left to determine quality is through backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author jayuk76
      Good Post

      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

      Links are still a core, fundamental aspect of Googles ranking algorithm and will be for a long time, so links are by no means "dead", nor are they a waste of time.
      I am solely referring to QUALITY of links. So agree.

      That said, Google is getting consistently better - and I personally believe just leapt forward quite significantly with the latest update(s) - at using its own judgement to "understand" content and detecting what content is relevant to certain keywords, and just what content is better full top.
      Spot on - and glad to see someone else in tune. I would even go as far as saying the Mayday change has been the LARGEST in around 7 years. Not sure about you - but there were certain things you could do with keywords on a domain for ranking and see results within 5-10 days - that is no longer the case as the "weight" of ranking with them has changed.

      For more competitive queries however, simply having the most links or a greater link velocity than other competing websites may not ever be enough to rank you in the top position, if your content still looks somewhat primitive, thin or less informational than that of other competing sites.
      You are eating my food! get away Couldnt agree more with you fella. There is now even greater focus on validity and quality of information then ever.

      In such instances, I believe Google is getting wise enough to make it's own judgement about that content based not only on the amount or strength of incoming links, or such things as keyword density.
      I would also add that with the predicative and analysis software they now have - they are pretty much fine tuning it to an exact match based on keyword,phrase,relevance and overall informative contents BASED on the search query

      The links/votes based system of ranking is obviously open to manipulation and the number of people getting wise to how it works is ever-increasing. Although their PageRank mechanism goes so far to value links differently (for better or "worse"), making it a little harder for people to rank highly for competitive terms simply by link spamming (given that finding and building high PR links isn't something that can really be automated with ease, unlike is the case with low quality links), it is not the be all and end all anymore.
      agree and this can only be good for SEO - as alot of the spam fly by night monkeys will simply [hopefully] disappear of become unstuck.

      If Google ever wants to truly be able to determine the best and most useful content for any given search, it needs a human-like judgement, and although that may not be possible for a long time to come (if ever), they are certainly focusing heavily on developing systems/algorithms to be able to make a relatively primitive guesstimation of whether a piece of content looks to be the best and most suitable, and whether it is deserving of the number of links it has relative to the age and quality of content (together with the number and quality of links pointing to *that* content) available on competing websites.
      I would add that they are actively leveraging systems right now and testing such platforms - inside googles infrastructure are things that not many would have had the balls to adopt as a company, be that there bespoke servers to deployment mechanism across there data centres. That aside - there analysis platforms are immense and I would go as far as to say that even within 2 years SEO will be on its head in terms of content.


      Google is probably never going to (or at least, not for a long time) shift away from ranking content based heavily on links and PR / overall domain authority, but they are making progress towards being able to scrutinize content on a case-by-case basis to determine if a site looks genuinely deserving of the linkage it obtains in comparison to other sites, and whether it is wise to rely on that data to determine the ranking or not.
      Hmmm - my take on this is that they are adopting some more weight on history of content and its relevance. I would be happy to put the mortgage of an Internet Marketing Copywriter on the fact that they run analysis on historic site date [be that 2-5-7 days] to also rank


      The more Google does to make it harder for us to "cheat" our way to the top position, the more straight forward and logical the need for truly quality, information-rich, relevant, natural content.

      With every update Google is getting closer to that goal. It is coming to the point - if we aren't already at it - where trying to cheat top rankings using "technical methods" becomes harder than simply doing deep research and writing (or paying someone else to write) truly great content that adds value to and solves our visitors queries.

      When every webmaster/publisher publishes consistently good, well-researched content, the need to determine which deserves to be at the top will become somewhat moot, since all content on the first page(s) is likely to be as good as the competitions. Then it's really just down to people to vote - through links or any other means - to determine their overall favourite which will end up in the top spot.
      Totally agree and I am of the opinion that change has been Good. We all want relevant good search results......and this hopefully will be the start of something that continues to get better - yet harder for the SEO cowboys.
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  • Profile picture of the author isaiasrosario
    Fresh New Content + Quality Backlinks = Good Rankings

    This has always been the way for me and it works great! Dont make things complicated we only live once
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  • Profile picture of the author joetheseo
    Originally Posted by jayuk76 View Post

    So many people seem to be whinging about Google and their Mayday update.

    Quit it! Why? Nothing has changed! The core fundamentals are still there! People just ignore them - bit like blind leading the blind. Someone says to blast a number of links off an automated platform - and all follow.

    But noone actually thinks - SURPRISE SURPRISE.

    CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT!

    What has google been talking about for the last 18 months? What has been their key strategic direction when it comes to information free flow?

    Clue?

    CONTENT > CURRENT > FAST : RANKINGS


    You have content that is new, related, current and informative to your niche - YOU WILL RANK!!!

    It is actually funny now to see all these "SEO Specialists" [read: "ive got a degree in marketing and think I can con people but am clueless"] panic as all of a sudden over the past 2 weeks their efforts on building links arent altering rankings for their clients......lets blame Google!

    Google are smart - this change was for the better.

    Now hopefully - the crap from the market will either go bankrupt or just fizzle away to get into another Fad

    Oh I like the village idiots still creating profile links and trying to make money off it by selling it as a service!

    Christ
    Google's entire search engine was built on Links and mainly Links alone. Google was actually called "Back Rub" back in the day because of this. Links aren't going anywhere unless Google COMPLETELY reinvents the wheel.

    The truth is that CONTENT has always been important, and it's still the same today... But that doesn't change anything as far as I'm concerned, all my sites are getting the same amount of traffic and rankings.

    I think it mainly effected SUPER long tail exact domains and people that were spamming translated garbage... Google just wanted to clean up the SERPS.

    IMO the "patented update" was Google adding in better linguistics into the algo... as well as Perhaps building in Category based rankings.. which would explain the drop in long tail a lot of people saw from autoblogs with random -generated content.

    Example: Someone types in San Diego Zoo .. I've got an article on my that includes the word San Diego Zoo but my site is about my personal life... Why should I rank on San Diego Zoo? I'm actually using a REAL example from one of my own sites.

    Before MayDay I actually was getting traffic from San Diego Zoo .. It made no sense.

    Something else to ponder... perhaps the algorithm no longer takes favor to X amount of character domains, thus explaining why the "Snipers" lost a lot of their traffic...

    Someone else on the Warrior Forum has already said it.

    Google CAN'T delete all the Adsense domains, because the Content Network makes up a HUGE portion of their revenue. But it's pretty damn easy to tweak Quality and Relevancy settings to filter out all the Bullcrap.



    My .02
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  • Profile picture of the author searchnology
    I won't go as far as to say this is completely wrong but the need for quality content AND backlinks are not mutually exclusive. They work together as they should.

    POINT 1. You can have THE BEST content in the world but if nobody votes for it by linking to your site IT DOESN'T MATTER. Your site won't rank and you won't get traffic.

    POINT 2. You can have a TON of backlink but if they aren't relevant to your site you won't rank for your targeted keywords.

    The recent update by Google has made a marked improvement in improving how the two items above work together.

    If your sites have any of the below attributes you have or will probably experience a decline in your SERPs.

    1. Thin sites made for advertising (adsense and autoblog sites)
    2. Thin sites with exact keyword domain sites
    3. Sites that have backlinks to just the homepage
    4. Sites that have backlinks with just a single anchor text

    5. Relatively new domains

    What's really ironic is that people complain about Google here but all of the information Google needs to combat spammy SEO tactics is in plain sight on this forum.



    Originally Posted by jayuk76 View Post

    So many people seem to be whinging about Google and their Mayday update.

    Quit it! Why? Nothing has changed! The core fundamentals are still there! People just ignore them - bit like blind leading the blind. Someone says to blast a number of links off an automated platform - and all follow.

    But noone actually thinks - SURPRISE SURPRISE.

    CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT!

    What has google been talking about for the last 18 months? What has been their key strategic direction when it comes to information free flow?

    Clue?

    CONTENT > CURRENT > FAST : RANKINGS


    You have content that is new, related, current and informative to your niche - YOU WILL RANK!!!

    It is actually funny now to see all these "SEO Specialists" [read: "ive got a degree in marketing and think I can con people but am clueless"] panic as all of a sudden over the past 2 weeks their efforts on building links arent altering rankings for their clients......lets blame Google!

    Google are smart - this change was for the better.

    Now hopefully - the crap from the market will either go bankrupt or just fizzle away to get into another Fad

    Oh I like the village idiots still creating profile links and trying to make money off it by selling it as a service!

    Christ
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by searchnology View Post

      1. Thin sites made for advertising (adsense and autoblog sites)
      Why don't you check on how this 'change' is impacting thefind.com, bizrate.com, nextag.com, wize.com and other professional, well funded, scrapper, uh, 'aggregation' sites?

      For the most part, they're doing better than before. Why? Killer site authority from having gotten those ever elusive quality authority links along with domain age and a few other 'secret' ingredients. That factor seems to beat the rap for thin content.
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      • Profile picture of the author searchnology
        I wouldn't call those thin sites....bizrate.com itself has over 15 million pages indexed.

        When I say thin 'made for advertising" sites I mean the simple sites ( i.e. Xfactor, Clickbump) that are out there with only 5 or 10 pages of content made solely to get Adsense clicks from long tail keywords.

        Aggregating and organizing existing content for contrast and comparison is actually a great business model (creditcards.com is a pure gold mine) but it is not of any worth when it is done just to add pages for Adsense ad clicks. That adds no value.

        ...bravo Google!



        Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

        Why don't you check on how this 'change' is impacting thefind.com, bizrate.com, nextag.com, wize.com and other professional, well funded, scrapper, uh, 'aggregation' sites?

        For the most part, they're doing better than before. Why? Killer site authority from having gotten those ever elusive quality authority links along with domain age and a few other 'secret' ingredients. That factor seems to beat the rap for thin content.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
          Well, my EMD clickbump template sites continue to rank well. It's all about on-page SEO (not just installing a template), and throwing a few backlinks at the pages. Nothing has changed. No awesome "content" needed either.

          I sure hope people stop going after these types of sites/keywords as that will just leave more money on the table for me

          Originally Posted by searchnology View Post


          When I say thin 'made for advertising" sites I mean the simple sites ( i.e. Xfactor, Clickbump) that are out there with only 5 or 10 pages of content made solely to get Adsense clicks from long tail keywords.

          Aggregating and organizing existing content for contrast and comparison is actually a great business model (creditcards.com is a pure gold mine) but it is not of any worth when it is done just to add pages for Adsense ad clicks. That adds no value.

          ...bravo Google!
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          • Profile picture of the author searchnology
            Congrats you are one of the fortunate ones....I can't speak to your sites since I've never seen them and know nothing about the competition but by and large those are the types of sites that have been hit the hardest in the SERPs...especially when combined with the other factors I listed previously.

            Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

            Well, my EMD clickbump template sites continue to rank well. It's all about on-page SEO (not just installing a template), and throwing a few backlinks at the pages. Nothing has changed. No awesome "content" needed either.

            I sure hope people stop going after these types of sites/keywords as that will just leave more money on the table for me
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
              What I just don't get....is we are talking 52 EMD domains here. Obviously it's a drop in the bucket compared to the world wide web. But, if this "big hit" did happen (for long-tail micro niche thin content sites), wouldn't you think it would have affected at least 1 of these 52? Note that I'm even first to admit it's pretty much crap content, but it works for the CTR.

              Originally Posted by searchnology View Post

              Congrats you are one of the fortunate ones....I can't speak to your sites since I've never seen them and know nothing about the competition but by and large those are the types of sites that have been hit the hardest in the SERPs...especially when combined with the other factors I listed previously.
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        • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
          Originally Posted by searchnology View Post

          I wouldn't call those thin sites
          They are thin in terms that the content is entirely scrapped product listings and nothing else of substance. If you or I attempted to do a site like this, it would be deindexed ASAP. Just ask anyone who's done a BANS, YACG or similar site based on affiliate feeds alone.

          Originally Posted by searchnology View Post

          Aggregating and organizing existing content for contrast and comparison is actually a great business model
          No doubt that it is, otherwise the companies I mentioned wouldn't have 7 figures of Silicon Venture capital money behind them, including money from former and current Google employees.

          Then again, you can't start a site like that without millions upfront from somebody who knows somebody because you'll be deindexed before you get started good.

          But, to get back around to the question at hand, the vast majority of my sites have either improved, some substantially, or stayed about the same.
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          • Profile picture of the author paulgl
            Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

            But, to get back around to the question at hand, the vast majority of my sites have either improved, some substantially, or stayed about the same.
            Ditto!

            Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Problem number one for that idea of content + current + fast = rankings:

    People ripping current content from news agencies AND (automatically) posting it fast, are getting top rankings with spam sites and copied content.

    Google needs to find a solution for this FAST, otherwise CURRENT RANKINGS will turn a piece of **** in a couple weeks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Content does not have to be new to be current. History doesn't change. I really think this push towards fresh content is ignorant of quality work documented documented at any point in time.

    I would also like to add that I think it is easier to SEO for terms now because the large 'authority' sites that rank high due to their internal linking no longer get the huge leap over the rest as they once did. Amazon pages are a piece of cake to over take now.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Google will never be perfect.

      It's not content per se, it's semi-valuable content, packaged
      in a visitor friendly environment. Does not have to be current unless
      you are a newsy site, niche, blog, etc. that includes tech updates
      and/or product updates or the like.

      Why would anyone think google would stop tweaking? They did not
      become #1 by staying the same thing they were in 2000.

      But, a good website is a good website is a good website. If the
      trash gets dumped, I'll stand up and cheer. I'm tired of the misinformation
      phony baloney that gets tossed around here by people whining of some
      google slap. If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

      There are other ways to get traffic. I'd say I spend most of my time
      generating traffic other than google. And lo and behold, that
      actually increases google traffic!

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    The quality of content is subjective and varies from reader to reader. I'm the dating niche, since I've seen most of the tips and hints before, and since I run a site in that industry, what newbies think as "mind blowing" was "so last year" to me. Thus, I would discount the quality of the content already.

    However, links on the other hand are not subjective.

    Links play a HUGE factor.

    I have a site that's written in ENGLISH with ZERO Chinese.

    But it's on page 1 number 1 for the Chinese keyword.

    I was just doing it as a test to see how much anchor text matters.

    It matters ALOT.
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