How in the Hell is this site ranking for this KW?

14 years ago

Well,FFL is in the description and it is in the site's content and it has a lot of backlinks.

The site IS about FFL and Google knows that based on the content.

Thanks

Signature

Greg Schueler - Wordpress Fanatic... Living The Offline Marketing Dream...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280517].message }}

Colin Theriot

14 years ago

Yeah, SEO is not the only indicator of whether a site will rank well. It's a good guess, and SEO factors are how Google's algo guesses, too. But also, is the site good? If it is, Google will tend to reward it if they can tell just by crawling it, whether or not they are good at technical SEO or backlinking.

Google strives to make it so SEO doesn't need to exist at all, and good websites with no SEO will rank better than terrible websites with perfect SEO.

Thanks

Signature

Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do.
Join my free copywriting group on Facebook: http://CultOfCopy.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280539].message }}

Crew Chief

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

hxxp://federalfirearmslicense.com/

Ranked #3 for "ffl"

Federal Firearms License

Offers a detailed, step-by-step kit to get you your Federal Firearms License (FFL).
federalfirearmslicense.com/ - Cached - Similar
#3 | PR: 3 | Y! Links: 510 | Y! .edu Links: 0 | Y! .gov Links: 0 | Y! Page Links: 380 | Y! .edu Page Links: 0 | Cached: - | Yahoo position: 8

Keyword not even in title or URL, less than 10% of anchor text contain FFL my IBP says site is optimized at 13% for a top 10 listing for this KW.

What am I missing because this should not be remotely possible. I's there something bla ck hat going on here that I am missing? WTF?

Google says About 26,500,000 results (0.08 seconds) For "FFL"

The domain name for FFL is dead on; couple that with the few BLs and you've got the answer to your question.

The Google BOTs have factored in that FFL and FFLs are in all likelihood first and foremost referring to Federal Firearms License and then possibly Fantasy Football League, etc., etc.

It's sort of like when a person Google's "REO"

Are they referring to:

(a). REO Speedwagon
(b). Real Estate Owned
(c). Regional Ecosystem Office

The BOTS have decided that first and foremost, people typing in "REO" are searching for Real estate owned and secondly REO Speedwagon.

So the answer to your question is "No!" There's nothing flaking going on; they just snagged a great domain name!

Giles, the Crew Chief

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Tools, Strategies and Tactics Used By Savvy Internet Marketers and SEO Pros:

ProSiteFlippers.com We Build Monetization Ready High-Value Virtual Properties

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280583].message }}

Christian Fox

14 years ago

Wow... I am not so sure there is virtually no content on the site and it has nowhere near the backlinks of any other top ranked listing.

Are you sure Google sees Federal Firearms License as FFL also I would argue FFL as in fantasy football league would definitely win the toss on the assumption based on the terms popularity.

Check the site, there is nothing to crawl it's half a page and almost zerop content... I am still perplexed.

I have the same domain however with hyphens and .net ext

Time to do a little experiment...

But also, is the site good?

No, it sucks....badly

Well,FFL is in the description and it is in the site's content and it has a lot of backlinks.

Yes but I would argue title and url would both weigh more heavily...Agree? Also that is not a lot of backlinks per the competition and less that 10% use the term in the anchor. That is bad in itself.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280653].message }}

Crew Chief

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

Wow... I am not so sure there is virtually no content on the site and it has nowhere near the backlinks of any other top ranked listing.

Are you sure Google sees Federal Firearms License as FFL also I would argue FFL as in fantasy football league would definitely win the toss on the assumption based on the terms popularity.

Check the site, there is nothing to crawl it's half a page and almost zerop content... I am still perplexed.

I have the same domain however with hyphens and .net ext

Time to do a little experiment...

No, it sucks....badly

I checked the site and you are right, IT SUCKS royally!

This one is close to home for me because I've got a number of sites just like that. I rank high on some three characters acronyms related to real estate. The thing is, I never set to rank on them!

When I researched and starting tracking as to the reason(s) why, it came back to the domain name and the closely related content factor.

In this case, when a person searches for FFL, the search is almost always related to: obtaining a firearms license. Check your GKT for confirmation.

Giles, the Crew Chief

Thanks

Signature

Tools, Strategies and Tactics Used By Savvy Internet Marketers and SEO Pros:

ProSiteFlippers.com We Build Monetization Ready High-Value Virtual Properties

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280746].message }}

VegasGreg

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

Yes but I would argue title and url would both weigh more heavily...Agree? Also that is not a lot of backlinks per the competition and less that 10% use the term in the anchor. That is bad in itself.

I would disagree. While those 2 items ARE factors in the equation (allegedly), they are only 2 factors of 200+ that Google claims to use.

A 'Title' can be anything a webmaster wants it to be and may or may not be relevant to the site and Google would catch that, so I wouldn't say that Google woulf rate that part highly.

The 'url' is also a very small factor in the 200+ variables used in the equation. Yes, a keyword rich domain can help, barring all other factors, but think of all the BIG sites that rank highly for keywords that have nothing to do with the url. (EX: search for any physical product keyword and you will usually get ebay.com and amazon.com)

Just my thoughts, and yes, I agree the site looks "crappy", but it serves the purpose for anyone searching that term and sometimes that is all that matters.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Greg Schueler - Wordpress Fanatic... Living The Offline Marketing Dream...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281583].message }}

dburk

14 years ago

Hi Christian,

This is just one of millions of examples that demonstrate that Google does not rank pages based on the number of backlinks, PageRank, amount of content on the page or any kind of subjective judgement of the "quality" of the content.

Google simply ranks pages based on a relevancy score.

It seems that you assume that Google is not able to recognize that FFL is a commonly used abbreviation for the term: Federal Firearm License. Actually they do recognize this abbreviation and you can easily confirm this by observing the keyword terms that are automatically made bold on the SERP.

Since Google recognizes this common abbreviation they clearly see this keyword included both in the title and the URL, so your assumptions regarding this aspect of SEO were wrong. Again, you can confirm this by observing which terms are made bold on the SERP.

Additionally, you seem to be thinking of relevancy as an absolute and exclusive value. Google clearly treats relevancy as a relativistic value. Which means a single term may have a degree of ambiguity and be relevant towards multiple topics, i.e. "apple" is relevant for the fruit, the computer, the music company, pies, recipes, etc. and Google has no difficulty recognizing this as demonstrated by their SERP.

This post from Google's Blog discusses these capabilities: Official Google Blog: Helping computers understand language

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

* Get Results - Outsource Your PPC Management |
* Don Burk Advertising & Marketing - www.donburk.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2282608].message }}

Christian Fox

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Christian,

This is just one of millions of examples that demonstrate that Google does not rank pages based on the number of backlinks, PageRank, amount of content on the page or any kind of subjective judgement of the "quality" of the content.

Google simply ranks pages based on a relevancy score.

It seems that you assume that Google is not able to recognize that FFL is a commonly used abbreviation for the term: Federal Firearm License. Actually they do recognize this abbreviation and you can easily confirm this by observing the keyword terms that are automatically made bold on the SERP.

Since Google recognizes this common abbreviation they clearly see this keyword included both in the title and the URL, so your assumptions regarding this aspect of SEO were wrong. Again, you can confirm this by observing which terms are made bold on the SERP.

Additionally, you seem to be thinking of relevancy as an absolute and exclusive value. Google clearly treats relevancy as a relativistic value. Which means a single term may have a degree of ambiguity and be relevant towards multiple topics, i.e. "apple" is relevant for the fruit, the computer, the music company, pies, recipes, etc. and Google has no difficulty recognizing this as demonstrated by their SERP.

This post from Google's Blog discusses these capabilities: Official Google Blog: Helping computers understand language

Thanks, yes I was wrong about G not seeing Federal Firearms License as FFL I confirmed this with the GKWT as well. Also the domain is aged as well so this is helping also I am sure.

I'll check that link

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2282706].message }}

Christian Fox

14 years ago

I'll do that thanks... Yeah bizarre I never even considered going after this due to the massive competition. I should be able to easily outrank that site...

Wow just checked the GKWT spot on! Another lesson learned... never assume anything.

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280757].message }}

Social-Media-Marketing

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

hxxp://federalfirearmslicense.com/

Ranked #3 for "ffl"

Federal Firearms License

Offers a detailed, step-by-step kit to get you your Federal Firearms License (FFL).
federalfirearmslicense.com/ - Cached - Similar
#3 | PR: 3 | Y! Links: 510 | Y! .edu Links: 0 | Y! .gov Links: 0 | Y! Page Links: 380 | Y! .edu Page Links: 0 | Cached: - | Yahoo position: 8

Keyword not even in title or URL, less than 10% of anchor text contain FFL my IBP says site is optimized at 13% for a top 10 listing for this KW.

What am I missing because this should not be remotely possible. I's there something bla ck hat going on here that I am missing? WTF?

Google says About 26,500,000 results (0.08 seconds) For "FFL"

26MM results is really no indication of competition. You'd need to look at the # of results w/ FFL in the title, in the URL, in both title and URL, in anchor to really get a good picture.

That being said... The site has some decent backlinks...

In particular they have a DMOZ entry w/ FFL in the link text AND the description. They even have directory links from several "fake DMOZ" sites with FFL in the link text. LOL As you can see, many sites scrape DMOZ and re-publish the DMOZ content on other sites. This is one reason getting into DMOZ can be such a great thing. It's almost like article submission where other blogs will republish your ezinearticles.com article.

They also have links from very relevant pages on other sites like FFL Top 10 Questions which have FFL in the page name, page title, content, etc.

How does Google determine if your URL is relevant to a search query? They look to title, h1, h2s, content, link text of inbound links to that URL, etc. to see if those elements contain the search phrase, variations of the search phrase, or close synonyms of the search phrase.

So how do you think Google determines if a page that links to yours is relevant to a search query (therefore, making your page more relevant)? They look at title, h1, h2s, content, link text of inbound links of the page that links to your page to see if they contain the search phrase, variations of the page, or close synonyms of the search phrase.

But if I had to guess... the DMOZ entry and all of the copies of that directory on the web are likely the primary reason.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Personal Injury Attorney - Marc Phillipon

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2280940].message }}

paulgl

14 years ago

Is ffl a real word keyword by a real world searcher?
If it isn't, and I can't imagine why anyone would search for
ffl, then google has got to decide on the fly what you are
searching for. It's a crazy search, so expect crazy results.

Now if you do a search for:
how to get a Federal Firearms License
The site shows up because it is spot on. They claim they will
indeed show you "how to get a Federal Firearms License."

It's not a bad example.

Looks like a low comp niche to be sure.
It appears that as stated, google expects most people who search for
ffl to mean Federal Firearms License. But again, I can't fathom anyone
doing a search for ffl by itself.

Google prides itself on giving the searcher as close to what they
want at any given time. But sometimes they have to guess. And
sometimes they get it wrong. Taking a weird search and getting
weird results is proof of nothing. I have always asked where people
get the time to do this stuff, and why they even do it.

paul

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281209].message }}

Christian Fox

14 years ago

I looked at their links with SEO Spyglass and you are right the DMOZ is probably helping...

Still it is an odd position for this weak site me thinks...

26MM results is really no indication of competition. You'd need to look at the # of results w/ FFL in the title, in the URL, in both title and URL, in anchor to really get a good picture.

Agreed,
HIGH...
intitle:ffl inurl:ffl inanchor:ffl
About 176,000 results (0.31 seconds)

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281246].message }}

Mike Grant

14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Is ffl a real word keyword by a real world searcher?
If it isn't, and I can't imagine why anyone would search for
ffl, then google has got to decide on the fly what you are
searching for. It's a crazy search, so expect crazy results.

Now if you do a search for:
how to get a Federal Firearms License
The site shows up because it is spot on. They claim they will
indeed show you "how to get a Federal Firearms License."

It's not a bad example.

Looks like a low comp niche to be sure.
It appears that as stated, google expects most people who search for
ffl to mean Federal Firearms License. But again, I can't fathom anyone
doing a search for ffl by itself.

Google prides itself on giving the searcher as close to what they
want at any given time. But sometimes they have to guess. And
sometimes they get it wrong. Taking a weird search and getting
weird results is proof of nothing. I have always asked where people
get the time to do this stuff, and why they even do it.

paul

"ffl" receives 10k exact per month.

Thanks

Signature

Speed Kills Manifesto - The Single Most Overlooked Tactic - Proven to Increase Conversions 100% Overnight, Traffic 240% in 3 Days

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281543].message }}

Mike Grant

14 years ago

I never understood why people use the number of "competing" pages as a sign of how difficult it is to rank.

Use the first 20 results on G to determine how difficult the niche is.

"ffl" is not a difficult keyword to rank for, at all. If you know what you're doing, youll be on page one in less than a month.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Speed Kills Manifesto - The Single Most Overlooked Tactic - Proven to Increase Conversions 100% Overnight, Traffic 240% in 3 Days

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281447].message }}

Highdefinition 14 years ago

Then you should ask Adobe how in the hell they ranked for "click here"
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2281501].message }}

sabun

14 years ago

Another thing to remember is that Google rankings are not necessarily spot on all the time ... i have seen many other examples where some rubbish website is sitting comfortably on first page for years ... besides, there can be some redirecting stuff going on.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2282684].message }}

How in the Hell is this site ranking for this KW?

Trending Topics

How did you turn it all around?

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

best high quality crypto traffic.

Some interesting stats about brand comms