Freelancer.com

Go Back   Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Search Engine Optimization
Register Blogs Social Groups CalendarHelp Desk

Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 20th October 2010, 10:07 PM   #51
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
Nope. Links from this site have actually been devalued and try seeing if a link from DP gets you a big boost anymore .

Try again. Eventually you must by the sheer odds come up with a good point to counter the evidence that is overwhelming against you.

Still waiting how your Goldmine (lol) of SEO is so much better than all the SEOs in the world who recognize that linking to spam can hurt a site. Warriors is such a funny place.

I think Warriors had a drop in PR this year as well but I maybe wrong about that. NO one said the sites would vanish just that the links would have less juice. Next I guess I will hear from you that the more out going links on a site doesn't decrease the link juice going out on the individual links (all things being equal). Do you even know how PR works? Thats pretty laughable. No wonder you think I push advanced SEO. You are in the stone age.
PR? No I dont - perhaps you could explain it?

On the subject of PR dropping and warrior - are we to infer from your veiled innuendo that PR is solely manipulated by outward links to sites of certain "caliber"? Again, your inference is like the voodoo seo used in the example blog post you initially cited as a credible 3rd party resource to backup your initial theory. If X happened after Y happened, then therefore Y is the causation of X. I walked by a black cat on friday and my page rocketed to #1 in hte serps - therefore I shall walk by black cats every friday - en masse ... LOL .... Mike you may have created Black Cat SeO!

Perhaps you best not try and explain PR, and spend the time "in deep research" from more "real SEO's" < --- perfect example of inane condescending tone you take. Sorry - proclaiming authority - ever so repeatedly - only works on certain people.

Seriously mike - u think you're the only one on this forum capable of reading the work of others and putting it into practice. You draw personal attacks like bees to flowers mate - because you're one condescending SOB - guised as "telling it like it is" on your quixotical Crusade Against Automated Backlinks systems.

So warriors PR dropped - if that were true [ home page or some main forum pages are u referring to? ] or does the "site" have PR - lol ... Just say it did drop for sake of example ... why did it drop? in the context of this thread you are "insinuating" / inferring one thing - be specific .. outbound links TO a "bad" neighborhoods? [ btw - how the hell do you link TO spam? ] I see how a link is spam - but LINK TO SPAM ... r u making this crap up as you go?

Are outbound links to bad places cause for pr drop or in your lame example anecdotal blog post ... errrrr .... case study ... page level 24 hr. de-indexation ... or serp dance or.... ???? make up the mind which is it?

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 20th October 2010, 10:20 PM   #52
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post
PR? No I dont - perhaps you could explain it?

On the subject of PR dropping and warrior - are we to infer from your veiled innuendo that PR is solely manipulated by outward links to sites of certain "caliber"?
Nope. You can assume that your referencing Warriors as an anti-thesis of my argument is poorly conceived as such. Thats all. Wasn't making a case study of warriors just pointing out that your argument is as hollow as it usually is. The rest of your post was all emotional rambling so I'll skip it. Maybe I was wrong and the odds that you will make a good point are so low you may never do so.

Do you or do you not have any evidence to go against the MULTIPLE sources I have pointed to and have seen in my own experience that linking to spam sites can hurt a site.

Never mind.

I think its obvious by your veeering off into personal barbs that you are devoid of any substance on that issue. You have a good night though.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 20th October 2010, 10:20 PM   #53
Troy
War Room Member
 
Fraggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,998
Thanks: 839
Thanked 575 Times in 367 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post
[ btw - how the hell do you link TO spam? ] I see how a link is spam - but LINK TO SPAM ... r u making this crap up as you go?
Google can programatically decide what they think is spam. They built their search engine around the idea of knowing what a good article is, I am sure there are some smart guys working there who can also define what makes up a 'bad' site; it could amost be the opposite.

Fraggler is offline  
Unread 20th October 2010, 10:39 PM   #54
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post
Google can programatically decide what they think is spam.
He knows what the phrase means. I clarified it on the first page and the example link he is claiming to be able to counter specifies what the links were. He is just trying to save face because he can't produce any evidence that linking to bad neighborhoods doesn't hurt websites. Spam sites are sites within industries well known for spamming - Porn, gambling Viagra to name three. Google sees certain links on sites and they can tell that they are likely to be spam.

But hey if he wants me to use another term thats fine. He and Tom have been arguing the whole thread as if no link pattern from a site can hurt rankings or link juice of the site holding the link. Its total, absolute and utter garbage on their parts. When asked point blank to say that its BS that the practice of mass link blasts by spammers can't hurt the sites that they leave their links on they scurry away like mad ants to some secondary issue without addressing the central premise that is undeniable by all that have studied this. they know the answer but they

A) can't bear to admit that I am right
B) Don't want to be seen in an open forum admitting that what they advocate is hurtful both to the sites they use and potentially damaging to the strength of the links placed over time.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:11 AM   #55
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 1,319
Thanks: 669
Thanked 215 Times in 138 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

I have no interest in reading or responding to any of Mike's bull**** but I wanted to back up Tom and say that I was the one who received the PM from Allen himself stating that backlinking products are allowed again.

As Tom suggested, I wouldn't imagine there to be an announcement about it at all, but to my knowledge they are fair game again and I will be starting some WSO's in the near future that wouldn't have been allowed previously.
halfpoint is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:38 AM   #56
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
He knows what the phrase means. I clarified it on the first page and the example link he is claiming to be able to counter specifies what the links were. He is just trying to save face because he can't produce any evidence that linking to bad neighborhoods doesn't hurt websites. Spam sites are sites within industries well known for spamming - Porn, gambling Viagra to name three. Google sees certain links on sites and they can tell that they are likely to be spam.

But hey if he wants me to use another term thats fine. He and Tom have been arguing the whole thread as if no link pattern from a site can hurt rankings or link juice of the site holding the link. Its total, absolute and utter garbage on their parts. When asked point blank to say that its BS that the practice of mass link blasts by spammers can't hurt the sites that they leave their links on they scurry away like mad ants to some secondary issue without addressing the central premise that is undeniable by all that have studied this. they know the answer but they

A) can't bear to admit that I am right
B) Don't want to be seen in an open forum admitting that what they advocate is hurtful both to the sites they use and potentially damaging to the strength of the links placed over time.
Nice try Mike ...

Stay focused in the context - u do like to move in and out of different ones as it suits your needs.

One breath you talk about people here on this forum and BL forums spamming using x rumer and auto bots et al for their $$$ sites and affiliate and MFA's ... then the next breath you're talking about spamming forums and boards with the top 3 big taboo's - pharma - porn and gambling. Currently there is a difference in the "bad-ness" of these neighborhoods.

90% of the "profile" spammers reading your drivel and posting here are NOT spamming with porn/gambling/pharma links are they - and that is part of my point that totally flew over your head - or you cared to ignore intentionally. And no u did NOT specify and categorize outward links to sales pages/MFA sites vs. outward links to pharma/porn and gambling in your initial post. General consensus on this forum is that spam is spam - because they are so irritated by it. But is a outward link to a clickbank product or a innocent enough MFA site viewed by google the same as a link to a PORN site - in the context of bad neighborhoods?

Hence the point was and is that your theory that backlink spam will ultimately crush all sites that allow do-follow links - because they are ALL over run with spammers -and we should all just stop it because its self defeating folly cus these links are doomed to be devalued to google [ any day now ]- is just that - your theory.

This is the 3rd thread [ i think ], where youve tried to prove that your theory is fact. But the fact is - people are rapidly scaling up the serps using profile links via the tools and methods you claim dont work [ or are doomed to fail - any minute now ]

OMG!!! I have a profile link created with x rumer on a site that a moderator lost interest in and let go unchecked - its become over run!
The asian pharma spammers and russian porn kinds now own it! ... Ohhhh what shall I do! I better go delete that link from my over all link profile before google ever finds its! The sky is falling - the sky is falling ...

If spam'ish links unto themselves in forums and profile killed sites authority and rankings - then warrior would be a negative 10 PR and its pages would NOT rank page one on google near instantly with quadruple indent listings - as there more spammy outward links in hte SEO PPC forum per capita than probably any other forum ive seen [ that isnt over run by spammers - the definition of which is its own debate]

The vast majority of sites that most profile linkers are posting on are NOT over run by porn/pharma/gambling spam and likely wont be. For every 1 of those that happens theres 1500 more where it doesnt - and the internet is NOT a static or shrinking site end sum game here.

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:45 AM   #57
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Its total, absolute and utter garbage on their parts. When asked point blank to say that its BS that the practice of mass link blasts by spammers can't hurt the sites that they leave their links on they scurry away like mad ants to some secondary issue without addressing the central premise that is undeniable by all that have studied this.
Mike,

What is your point? the above quote - or the title of your thread and this phrase?

Quote:
Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Theres been enough debates on if that happens directly as a result of massive spam linking but there is another angle that hasn't been discussed often that pretty much guarantees that massive backlinking will eventually lose power across many sites.
Please explain then why Warrior forum and Backlinks forum are NOT De - Indexed

The same links in the sigs and profiles here, are whats being posted on the other forums you claim are being killed.


Interesting position that my several posts of multiple paragraphs are "scurrying away" like an ant - its just a little hard to respond to which "angle" - context - or REAL SEO [ LOL ] you wish to migrate to yourself - when you dont quite get the responses you desire.

You posted a theory, and used a very odd blog post as a "case study" when it was nothing more than a voodoo ... this happened once to me for 24 hrs .... so it is a new SEO Law - anecdotal story. Sorry - that blog post source is just not a valid article proving anything to anyone ...but you.

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:56 AM   #58
Warrior Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

I think that Google takes the low fruit here. All of them are their only link to buy a popular packages, and that undercover for a list of FFA sites and devalue the link juice, and put them in a visual array. They do not even need to search for them using special algorithms that just follow the money, so to speak.

seopackages is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:03 AM   #59
Pete Young
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 2,439
Thanks: 488
Thanked 631 Times in 434 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by seopackages View Post
I think that Google takes the low fruit here. All of them are their only link to buy a popular packages, and that undercover for a list of FFA sites and devalue the link juice, and put them in a visual array. They do not even need to search for them using special algorithms that just follow the money, so to speak.

[quote=bgmacaw;2747695]
Quote:
I think Google grabs the low lying fruit here. All they have to do is buy those popular "link packets" and such incognito to get a list of FFA sites and devalue their link juice and put them in the visual inspection queue. They don't even have to search them out via special algorithms, they just follow the money, so to speak.
is this not funny you have the same post as post number 13 ?

the very crap some of us are talking about / here on our dinner plate / we all know what prime stunted growth marketing does now i suppose.

i will add a pointers here for players that is getting more common / the user name is moving from fred1234789 to a key word

/ user name = seopackages
/ we have seeded keys in our sig = seo consultant seo companies
/ our good friend rattled off 5 posts in under a minute flat

/ love em
tryinhere is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:29 AM   #60
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
jazbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Norfolk, England.
Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 9
Thanks: 33
Thanked 351 Times in 264 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Oh Mike. A lot of us remember that a few months ago you were selling "unique" links with a roboform submitter etc on one of your sites. You were peddling profile links.

Now you appear to have re-invented yourself as a "real seo" and everyone else is wrong, again.

If the value of user-generated links is diminishing, perhaps you could explain this blog post from Rand over at SEOMoz from August:

SEOmoz | I'm Getting More Worried about the Effectiveness of Webspam

I especially like this quote as an example:

"On nearly every commercially lucrative search results I pull up these days, I see bad links pushing bad sites into the top rankings at Google."



Now I would class him as knowing a bit more than most people about SEO (unless you disagree?).

jazbo is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:34 AM   #61
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
jazbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Norfolk, England.
Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 9
Thanks: 33
Thanked 351 Times in 264 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Another point that counters this. If you read some of the better dark hat forums, you will read some pretty knowledgeable people TRYING to get sites sandboxed as experiments.

I have read about people throwing thousands of xrumer, senuke and scrapebox links at new domains full of spun content and guess what - the sites still rank.

I also read about experiments to knock competitors down with the same experiments. And guess what, those competitors in every single case study I have seen COME BACK STRONGER.

Sorry but the premise of this thread it completely based on general theory that in reality is not true.

jazbo is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:43 AM   #62
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
jazbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Norfolk, England.
Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 9
Thanks: 33
Thanked 351 Times in 264 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Mike, you took a pop at Tom by suggesting he posted less and had something to sell. You took your own thread off topic.

Why do you have to create these train wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
That was a fine ad but its not part of this thread topic. This is about the third or fourth time some mass spammer has derailed the thread with personal attacks and innuendos. I was merely responding to it not opening the door for an ad for your link spam site .

I have no qualms with you marketing for yourself and Terry as you always have. Its just not honest though to claim that because the product was never in your name you were not involved in selling it. I have seen it. Plus you have always had a signature link Tom. never seen you without one WHICH I want to make clear again is fine except for the pretending that you have never been deeply involved in selling on Warriors even as you are right now.

Sheesh a little honesty goes a long way. At any rate this thread is about the subject of the opening post. Not whether someone who questions link spam is suspicious, what happens elsewhere or who or what goes on there when and if I build relationships online or offline or any other derailing strategy.

jazbo is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:45 AM   #63
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
jazbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Norfolk, England.
Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 9
Thanks: 33
Thanked 351 Times in 264 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

The reason for that, as I and others predicted, is that if you take the link discussion out of WF, Allen loses money and traffic, I reckon his revenue is down a good 25% from WSO postings since the witchhunt on link products.

Money always speaks loudest in the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adamv View Post
The wso section does have some backlink products in it now. I've even seen Angela's packets back in there recently.

jazbo is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:46 AM   #64
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

[quote=tryinhere;2753430]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post


is this not funny you have the same post as post number 13 ?

the very crap some of us are talking about / here on our dinner plate / we all know what prime stunted growth marketing does now i suppose.

i will add a pointers here for players that is getting more common / the user name is moving from fred1234789 to a key word

/ user name = seopackages
/ we have seeded keys in our sig = seo consultant seo companies
/ our good friend rattled off 5 posts in under a minute flat

/ love em

OMG this forum is doomed!!! a spammer is about! Did this page become de indexed?

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 07:32 AM   #65
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

90% of the "profile" spammers reading your drivel and posting here are NOT spamming with porn/gambling/pharma links are they - and that is part of my point that totally flew over your head
No the part that flew over your head is that I never mentioned anyone in particular in the OP, You just started foaming at the mouth that I dare mention the reality at all. that s what always starts these arguments and the usual spam crew comes charging in Tom, You,Pat, Jeremy, Jazbo et al . You just don't want anyone posting negative about the misuse of mass spamming because thats what you push. So simple question

Does xrummer allow the mass propagation of spam links? Of course it does. You asked for a lesson in PR and I think you need it.

PR is not an unlimited resource. Every followed outbound link has juice that is directly tied to the PR on the page and thats a result of all the PR flowing though a site and directly to the page from outside sources. The more links coming out of a page and a site overall the less value the individual links have

THIS IS BASIC KINDERGARTEN LEVEL SEO.

Its embarassing that people who who hold themselves out as backlink and SEO gurus would argue against the premise that the more backlinks that can be dropped on a site the less power the links will have. Heres what you should state instead

That because this phenomenon is real it is best to find as many sites that are NOT targeted by mass link spammers because over time those links WILL retain more juice. that would make a smidgeon of sense instead of arguing against the obvious fact that the more spam on a site the less value the links have.

Before you confuse yourself more (if thats possible)the whole Porn, Gambling spa links etc is just an explanation to your nonsense about not understanding what linking to spam meant. Its not the whole scope of the OP. Quantity of links themselves can and are indicative of spam.

Good grief. If you are newbie or follow this nonsense advice of theirs skip this thread entirely and do some research on google and you will see how far these guys are off.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 07:56 AM   #66
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

Hence the point was and is that your theory that backlink spam will ultimately crush all sites that allow do-follow links - because they are ALL over run with spammers -and we should all just stop it because its self defeating folly cus these links are doomed to be devalued to google [ any day now ]- is just that - your theory.
No its not my theory at all. Its your strawman to slide out of being proven wrong. Nothing in the OP stated that all site would be crushed by backlink spams. Its pretty silly too. Most sites don't even allow you to leave links.

Quote:
This is the 3rd thread [ i think ], where youve tried to prove that your theory is fact. But the fact is - people are rapidly scaling up the serps using profile links via the tools and methods you claim dont work [ or are doomed to fail - any minute now ]
Again your strawman. If they didn't work (however not by themselves in truly competitive serps) then people wouldn't be tempted to use them. My point is that over time they lose value both because the sites lose juice to give when they are over run and because they get deleted in mass quantity. You can fool people who don't examine backlinks but the facts are when you go through the backlinks of almost any serious spammer you can see that even links that are showing in the portfolio have already been deleted. You can argue all you want but it generally takes more forum backlinks now to rank than it did before. You argument again is flat.


Quote:
If spam'ish links unto themselves in forums and profile killed sites authority and rankings - then warrior would be a negative 10 PR and its pages would NOT rank page one on google near instantly with quadruple indent listings - as there more spammy outward links in hte SEO PPC forum per capita than probably any other forum ive seen [ that isnt over run by spammers - the definition of which is its own debate]
Actually no it doesn't. you don't see porn post for example often if at all on Warriors. Talk about bogus case studies. You just proved you will put one up when it suits you and beg for it as long as it doesn't indict your mass spam captcha breaking ways. Warriors continues to rank because its achieved critical mass as an authority site among Internet marketers and routinely gets on page good Pr pages linking to it. Constantly. So the effects of having multiple links is offset by the incoming PR. Sheesh do better analysis. Now tell me how DP gives you a big boost int he serps. LOL

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 08:41 AM   #67
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
That because this phenomenon is real it is best to find as many sites that are NOT targeted by mass link spammers because over time those links WILL retain more juice. that would make a smidgeon of sense instead of arguing against the obvious fact that the more spam on a site the less value the links have.
Because you are hell bent on proving that single sentence - which would make all your past efforts of link building - crusading - blathering etc ... and selling your half baked quasi automated link building app - all perhaps finally mean something - you are totally blinded by any other perspective than the one you have.

If I didnt know any better - Id say you just also tried to convince us that PR is a 1 way street - a function solely of outbound links.

But then you can seem to settle in a what a "link to SPAM" is - it moves - as you need it to, to assist your position.


Quote:
PR is not an unlimited resource. Every followed outbound link has juice that is directly tied to the PR on the page and thats a result of all the PR flowing though a site and directly to the page from outside sources. The more links coming out of a page and a site overall the less value the individual links have
Quote:
THIS IS BASIC KINDERGARTEN LEVEL SEO.
What you think people are arguing about ... what you want them to be arguing about with your position - isnt necessarily what they are arguing about. Because you can't see it - grasp it - doesnt make it so.

Your laughable authoritative declarations of superior seo skills and "knowledge" dont make it so either.


Quote:
Actually no it doesn't. you don't see porn post for example often if at all on Warriors. Talk about bogus case studies. You just proved you will put one up when it suits you and beg for it as long as it doesn't idict your massspam ways.
Well - when you can come back to us with what you finally want to call or define as a spam link- link to spam or over run by spam is ... Sybil ... i think we might eventually get somewhere. It must be awesome to juxtapose your realities by the minute. Make up your mind.

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 08:43 AM   #68
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazbo View Post
Oh Mike. A lot of us remember that a few months ago you were selling "unique" links with a roboform submitter etc on one of your sites. You were peddling profile links.

Now you appear to have re-invented yourself as a "real seo" and everyone else is wrong, again.
Jazbo don't be so patently dishonest. You were in many debates I had WHILE I was selling a profile link package and you know perfectly well I was against MASS spam bots from then particularly ones that broke Captcha. You were right there with this same crew complaining against my position. Just like I have said often in this thread I said then - moderation. Anyone can go though my posts and see me making arguments against mass bots even then. You might disagree with my position but honesty should not have to suffer. Your re-invent nonsense is a plain lie.

Profile links are a way for young sites to get links, traffic and then noticed. I'm all for it in moderation but I am for building real businesses with return traffic and that have something people want to link to. Going forward when people get trained by you guys in the ways of mass bots they can't really say they have any security. If you rank on running a bot so can the next guy. It takes no skill. Quite a few of you know this as well. thats why you can see you buying links, domains with PR and other things. To the credit of some you have begun to teach your customers more than profile links but some of you have nothing else to offer. When i teach I try to teach people ALL about link building not over emphasized easy, played out no skill solution for everything. Part of that process is showing people the downside of one or another approach which I will continue to do despite your protests.

Quote:
"On nearly every commercially lucrative search results I pull up these days, I see bad links pushing bad sites into the top rankings at Google."
You're confusing the point. The OP had nothing to do with how well the site receiving the links does it was about what it does to the site that links out not in. Try again - this time by reading the OP. I've already quoted Rand 's studies on the premise of the OP. His research confirms it so you are stuck. Just not reading the thread is all.

Quote:
Mike, you took a pop at Tom by suggesting he posted less and had something to sell. You took your own thread off topic.
Pure distortion. I never took a pop at Tom. Dennis took a pop at me and I said many sellers stopped frequenting Warriors. I referenced Tom as agreeing that many had stopped or reduced their posting.

All your other points in this thread are off since you obviously haven't read whats in it but are just intent on distortion. Anecdotal nonsense about what Wicked Fire forum posters say against respected research companies? Thats pathetic and worse no one is talking about the benefit to the spammers. Its the detriment of the spammed that the OP is about and the overall trend of that site losing link juice in individual links.

Constantly off point.

Look it may be shocking to your group but there are people who want to build businesses by showing respect to sites and not being on lists all over the internet of being captcha breaking spammers. None of you could do SEO for real companies with your tactics and you can't compete in any niche where real businesses are truly competitive. Thats a fact and that says it all.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 08:51 AM   #69
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
None of you could do SEO for real companies with your tactics and you can't compete in any niche where real businesses are truly competitive. Thats a fact and that says it all.
Perhaps comedy is more your thing Mikey? Dat was a GEM!

May we all get up off our collective genuflected knee's now your excellency?

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 08:57 AM   #70
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

His excellency Mike - from on high - hath announced to all us mere SEO peasants ...

Quote:
You're confusing the point. The OP had nothing to do with how well the site receiving the links does it was about what it does to the site that links out not in. Try again - this time by reading the OP.
Hence why I saved the OP - because even you can keep track of your freakin point!

One of the main premises of His Excellency's First proclamation ...

Quote:
but there is another angle that hasn't been discussed often that pretty much guarantees that massive backlinking will eventually lose power across many sites.
there's for or 5 more sentences that make the reader of the initial proclamation - led to believe the focal point is NOT just the damage to the site getting spam links [ a still yet ot be defined term by His Excellency ] - but that the link builders efforts will be fruitless ultimately - and that Mikes ever so smart methods of quasi-automated link building on super special web sites and pages that will never get removed - never get de indexed or never do anything but increase in PR value via his super top secret inner circle guru seo power players method.

If only we'd all juts listened to him months ago.

- excuse me Im off to go get my "sky is falling" preparedness kit! It came up #2 in the serps - thanks to the quality link building and content creation guru's at Overstock.com - the buy it now button was surrounded by a ton of quality content! like ... just the sku # - the price - and 3 sentences not even containing the keyword[s].

Next up ... gotta go convince the insurance industry they arent a REAL Business. They wont take that too well meethinks. Wonder if theyve hear his excellency's proclamations they arent a real biz or in a competitive niche?

Hey Mikey/ Sybil - whatever your highness cares to be atm - good luck mate - its always fun in your classic trainwreck threads.

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 09:19 AM   #71
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Referrals - Here let me help you out. thankfully the OP is there and untouched

Quote:
massive backlinking will eventually lose power across many sites.

Here's how that works

Its a known fact that Google DOES penalize sites that link to spam and that the power of links from those sites deteriorates as a result. You may not be responsible for who links to you but you ARE responsible for who you link to . Sites that don't keep out tools like Xrummer (link spam bot but there are others) eventually get hammered by a good amount of clearly spam links. Google then identifies these links and if the number of spam links reaches an undisclosed level begins to lower the value of the links FOR EVERYONE using that site and the page in the search engine falls.
Crystal clear. Many sites would see the individual power of their links detiorate on a site by site basis. Not that you could not use additional links from other sites to counteract it but sites that get hammered will continue to decline in their links power site by site. that is that the constant use of bots to slam sites would make Those links less valuable and have in fact if you understand any metrics of how PR is divided and detiorates when passed through a link

You've got nothing referrals. I continue to ask basic seo questions and you run away from them. I gave you studies by Rand , the study he referenced and reconfirmed, and then a whole slew of serps results that you can see SEOs talking about the same REAL and proven fact.

Now you are reduced to insinuating I said out bound links determine a sites PR. LOL.

SO here s how I am going to play it. I don't have more time to waste. I'll ask you the question again and if you run away and fail to answer it then any impartial person will see you are ducking from it.

A) Does the amount of links on a site not deteriorate the power of the individual links as it increases?

B) Are you willing to say flat out now that whatever a site links to CANNOT affect the ranking of a site?

You've all dodged long enough. Let s see if you have another good dodge in you. Answer it. Its basic to this discussion.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 09:22 AM   #72
Advanced Warrior
 
Join Date: 2010
Posts: 934
Thanks: 0
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

The search engines are picking up on massive links in a very short time, and when folks start to see their sites plummet in the search rankings they will realise doing that is the reason
dagaul101 is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 09:24 AM   #73
HyperActive Warrior
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:

OMG this forum is doomed!!! a spammer is about! Did this page become de indexed?
LOL! I love this thread!!
seolearner09 is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 09:30 AM   #74
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post
Next up ... gotta go convince the insurance industry they arent a REAL Business. They wont take that too well meethinks. Wonder if theyve hear his excellency's proclamations they arent a real biz or in a competitive niche?
I love it. Puuuurfect.. Please show us the site you are ranking for the major term "insurance" with forum/profile links?

insurance - Google Search

is that you with State farm at #2? LOL

no? auto insurance?

http://www.google.com/search?q=home+...9faa430ac3503f

So Geico I am guessing.
So you work with Geico and they use spambots? I am impressed . LOL

Or did you mean Home insurance?

http://www.google.com/search?q=home+..._ENUS343&cad=h

so thats you at number two with All state?

Okay Life insurance then
http://www.google.com/search?q=home+...9faa430ac3503f

Prudential, metlife or...Wikipedia?

Please don't show us some weaker long tail. Show us in one of these competitive serps in the industry you just made a claim for. We'd all love to see it. thats the other thing that would make a great thread but you would/will whine at. Just how effective are profile links . No doubt great in long tail and less than really competitive niches but you guys hype it up way beyond their true power. Truth is in most really competitive serps it is RARE to find a site ranking with just spam bot links.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 09:46 AM   #75
Advanced Warrior
 
Jacob Martus's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 837
Thanks: 153
Thanked 216 Times in 147 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
Please don't show us some weaker long tail. Show us in one of these competitive serps in the industry you just made a claim for. We'd all love to see it. thats the other thing that would make a great thread but you would/will whine at. Just how effective are profile links . No doubt great in long tail and less than really competitive niches but you guys hype it up way beyond their true power. Truth is in most competitive serps it is RARE to find a site ranking with just spam bot links.
Surely there are some competitive insurance keywords besides just the term insurance. I'm sure they are all quite competitive, even these 'weaker long tails'.

I'm enjoying the thread, but I thought I would jump in there. That's all, return to battle.
Jacob Martus is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 10:46 AM   #76
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

So tell me Mike,

Where do these superior SEO,s and "proper businesses" get there links from?

Are you saying that we can only be serious and thus try and make some dollars if we are lucky enough to be in a position to pay top dollar for a serious and superior SEO?

There are plenty big business out there who pay for links, this isnt your holy white hat seo that you are talking about.... is it?
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 11:46 AM   #77
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot the Ball View Post
So tell me Mike,

Where do these superior SEO,s and "proper businesses" get there links from?
Partnerships (formal and otherwise). Sure really big companies get it from advertising but many small businesses develop partnerships/relationships that make their customers link to them and other related businesses.

Quote:
Are you saying that we can only be serious and thus try and make some dollars if we are lucky enough to be in a position to pay top dollar for a serious and superior SEO?
Nope. I advocate using the links at your disposal to start out with including profile links. I just don't advise on running the sites over because

A) Its not very nice of you and karma is a stinger
B and more importantly) when you get into the mass run em over mentality you lose out in the long run.

By the way great timing to answer both points raised. I just a few minutes ago got an email from a site. It was to inform me they were giving me a PR 4 link. Know why I got the opportunity? I didn't run the guys site over. I abided by his rules. I acted as a partner to what he was doing and trying to achieve. I've been on blogs where in a few minutes you could determine whether the owner/blogger is reasonable. Instead of trying to spam him and get my links deleted I joined in and struck up a relationship with him. I could do that because a bot wasn't doing everything. I saw the site and knew the opportunity that a bot wouldn't see. I got a link thats a nice addition to a link portfolio you could reverse engineer all you want you can't duplicate.

I don't care what the niche is except it was something I/my customer had an interest in (in this case it will be relevant) because I didn't have to fake interest in a way that people can see through as spam attempts. as to how an unrelated wrong/neutral anchor text link can still be used effectively? Figure it out

Works for forums too. I've build relationships with admins too. You can go ahead and spam them on your N/A profile page. that might help a bit but meanwhile I can post out in the open in a thread that has PR. I make sure its relevant and i don't abuse it. Look at warriors. Do you realize how influential Allen and Myers are? Many forum owners could send piles of traffic and sales to your site by recommendation but they won;t if you spam them. Again if a bot was doing everything I wouldnt see the opportunities. I can still use profile links AND I can get links on pages WITH actual PR because I am not setting a bot and walking away for hours at a time.

Quote:
There are plenty big business out there who pay for links, this isnt your holy white hat seo that you are talking about.... is it?
Answer your own question because it seems pointed like you think you know the answer. I don't know anyone that considers buying links as White Hat as you are fully aware since you've been in these debates before. You can spit on white hat all you want. I believe in balance and not running over sites. I do things that some wouldn't call white hat but my commitment has never been to stay in a label but to respect peoples property and benefit from the relationships that builds.

If an owner tells me he has a link spot and he wants me to pay for it I consider it. Its his site and his property. Do I rely on that kind of thing? No but I'll take it whether someone calls it white hat or black. I'm not violating the site.

So often white hat is just black hat with common sense and respect. Broaden your horizons instead of having a knee jerk reaction to everything that isn't black hat/Spam.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:11 PM   #78
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Mike,

I pretty much use blogs like you have stated, creating thoughtfull coments that add to the debate and also using forums just like you. I also pay outsourcers to create spam profile links too, so you can see I,m not averse to either method.

The problem is though, you yourself have just stated you will use forum profiles to get a site going, this is no different to what you are arguing against ... even if you only left a link on ten of those forums .. is this not spam?
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 12:11 PM   #79
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
bgmacaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Atlanta GA Metro Area, USA.
Posts: 3,621
Blog Entries: 5
Thanks: 308
Thanked 920 Times in 639 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power


bgmacaw is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:07 PM   #80
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot the Ball View Post
Mike,

I pretty much use blogs like you have stated, creating thoughtfull coments that add to the debate and also using forums just like you.

The problem is though, you yourself have just stated you will use forum profiles to get a site going, this is no different to what you are arguing against ... even if you only left a link on ten of those forums .. is this not spam?
Where in the Op did I state to avoid all definition that people have for spam? Point it out to me. I could have sworn it was about hammering sites with bots not a post about all things that people consider spam.

I don't agree that all profile/forum links are spam. So the problem is yours not mine. I've seen too many forums where its quite allowed - including the one you are on right now (as long as its in your sig.). Are you arguing that signature links here are spam?

Angela had a great post about a year ago of what she considered abuse. Even though the site allowed backlinks she showed a screenshot of someone who had left like fifty or so backlinks on a profile page.

Point is just because a site is good enough to let you leave a link doesn't mean that you have to abuse it, circumvent their rules, break their captchas and send bots to post links. or leave so many links it degrades their site.

If a site allows you to leave a link or two and you use it to drop a thousand its abuse and closer to the point if a site says hey we'll allow you a link but just fill out the captcha as a real person looking and interacting with our site its still abuse not to do it just to leave your link.

the whole - you leave a link while showing respect for the sites wishes so it gives me the right to leave a link while not abiding by the sites wishes - is a lame excuse. Not saying you are necessarily saying so but watch if you don't see people seizing upon that old and tired argument as a justification for mass bot link spamming.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:16 PM   #81
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Same question again Mike,

How is your link NOT spam?

I think everyone would agree that leaving 50 links IS spam, how do you police that? No one can be accountable for everybody yet you are trying to differentiate by saying your links are ok but everyone else,s are garbage.

Your link isnt surrounded by some magical halo, what makes you think YOUR link is so special and anyone else's isnt worthy?

Made by software or not, its still a link.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:19 PM   #82
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot the Ball View Post
Same question again Mike,

How is your link NOT spam?
You got your answer. Now you try answering before demanding more then I'll answer again if you didn't get it.

Do you consider signature links here spam even though they are clearly allowed for?

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:29 PM   #83
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
You got your answer. Now you try answering before demanding more.

Do you consider signature links here spam?
No I do not, the forum allows signatures.

Now answer me this, when you sold your link software, did you consider it would be used for spam ..... just maybe??

You owned up to dropping link profiles, did you ever consider it could be called spam .... just maybe ?

My guess is it didnt matter one iota what it was used for while you were making some dollars, so less of the preaching please.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 01:55 PM   #84
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Ohhh boy ... you've really trapped me into a really complicated corner - you really should consider playing more poker! LOL ...

Quote:
A) Does the amount of links on a site not deteriorate the power of the individual links as it increases?

B) Are you willing to say flat out now that whatever a site links to CANNOT affect the ranking of a site?
A. No [ because, whats the mystery element you want to conveniently leave out of this equation? SEO 101 that you elect to neglect ]

B. No - because that would be just as asinine as your initial premise and blanket statement.


One of the reasons why i find your intial assertions to be such utter self aggrandizing rubbish [ to help you feel better about your petty little SEO mantra / crusade and wanna be application ] is that - what you've either purposefully neglected to consider or discuss in your new SEO Law's and Proclamations is ... new and frequent inbound links to said over - run forums/sites.

I was hesitant to bring it up because, well - my app does it ... and before we got to that I was hoping you'd create the trainwreck before it got to that point - and it has become yet another oh so predictable one - so there's really not much harm or bias in mentioning it now.

There's 1,000's now and growing "profile link spammers" whom you assert are killing their golden geese by over running forums with outbound link spam, who are doing actually just the opposite of your idiotic proclamation - had you not been so busy frothing at the mouth - you'd of realized it Mike with mere minutes of "reasearch".

I and my customers [ now over 1000 of them ] are actually pointing links BACK to the poor helpless victimized forums "profile pages" you allege we are suffocating with outbound leakage. [ my link on a profile page is just slaughtering the internet ... LOL - laughable really ]

Actually my inward link ratio is 20 x 12 x 2 : 1 links in for every one profile outbound.

20 energizers x 12 sites x 2 passes = 480 links pointing AT the forum profile pages for every 1 outbound I / we place [ approx ]

There's 10 other applications on the web now doing the exact same thing for even more 1,000's of people ... errrr ... correction ... Evil Forum Spammers.

I'm going home to tell the missus I just killed the internet... still rolling LMAO

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:02 PM   #85
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

It makes not one slightest bit of difference how you try to dress it up Mike.

You sold software that enabled people to leave profile links in forums and you profited from that, yet you are here now condeming nasty evil software users as killing the link.

Here's a profound message, the software doesnt kill the link, the user might derail some efforts but who can control what the user does?

The world is moving on and you with your rants aint going to stop that, just like me whinging about yet more job cuts aint going to do nothing but get myself all wound up.

Adapt.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:12 PM   #86
Backlink Energizer
War Room Member
 
4morereferrals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 414
Thanked 431 Times in 289 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Good then a link on a site that allows it is not spam even by your definition. Claiming that a link is spam by virtue of it being a link is bogus.

So you are chasing your tail. Case closed.
You do like your big bold proclamations and absurd blanket statements - gotta give ya that.

So then a link on a profile page is spam? LOL if they didnt "allow it" - how could it get there? bot or wanna be bot ... or manual labor?

Is there some new magical profile link making bot I havent seen yet that changes the forum owners/moderators settings to turn ON profile page links and set them to the opposite of "rel=nofollow"

Send me the link to it - even if its an affiliate link ...

me thinks you Mike are the one offended - cuz well you too are a profile link spammer ... just a closet type ...

Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
4morereferrals is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:19 PM   #87
Advanced Warrior
 
Jacob Martus's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 837
Thanks: 153
Thanked 216 Times in 147 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

Nope. I advocate using the links at your disposal to start out with including profile links. I just don't advise on running the sites over because

A) Its not very nice of you and karma is a stinger
B and more importantly) when you get into the mass run em over mentality you lose out in the long run.
Mike,

You're still running the sites over even if you place the links manually in your situation. You sell a software which helps people make profile links. So while someone using a bot is making tons of profiles, you are also making tons of profiles via you yourself, and your customers.

There is really no difference. Some people use bots and build lots of profile links. You do them manually. The only difference is that your way takes more time. People using bots are no different than you selling a product that lets many many people make profile links.

Hypothetical example:
I use a bot and make 100 profile links a day.
You sell a product that allows 10 people to build 10 profile links per day.

In both examples, there are 100 links being built. The only difference is that one way is more acceptable because someone is behind the computer, clicking I agree and filling out a captcha, while the bot is doing that work for someone?

There is really no difference. Just because you do things manually does not mean that the sites want you or your customers profiles. What's the difference really? The only difference I can see is that you think it's better to do profile links manually. I bet if you were to ask a forum owner which person they liked more, they would have an equal amount of anger at both groups; the ones who use bots, and the ones who still abuse the forum manually.

I really don't have a bone to pick here. I don't use bots, and I very rarely use forum profiles anymore. I just don't see how doing things manually is any better than using a bot. They are both doing the same thing. And you selling a product that allows many people to make forum profiles is no different than 1 guy running a bot. Your customers may very well place more links than someone using a bot.
Jacob Martus is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:21 PM   #88
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post
... new and frequent inbound links to said over - run forums/sites.

I was hesitant to bring it up because, well - my app does it ..
LOl there we go - a product ad. and ad to solve the problem created by the problem that mass spam creates to boot. the famous backlink your weak backlinks technique. Wow thats new.


You havent answered the question at all. You've just danced around it. obviously if you pour more PR juice into the sites they will hold up until they are blasted by more and weakened again. I said as much in answering your nonsense about WF being the anti-thesis of my argument - that providing additional Pr counteracts the decay effect.

So point number one stands. You are right I boxed you into a corner to display your ignorance. the fact that you don' know you are is hardly a surprise. No matter how much pr you want to flow into a site it still and forever will be weaker than it would be without the excess backlinks on it.

Further more if you use bots to backlinks your bots submission then even the PR you think you are pouring back in is being weakened because PR isn't infinite my would be SEO. But of course we all know that you are only pouring in mostly zeros and N/As to most of the sites. Sucking from Mary to give Paul - empty air.. Go peddle that nonsense to those who can't see how weak the links are that they can't even get indexed. Meanwhile I'll just cry in my blanket with my on page PR4 link from not running a bot on that site.

As for two , yes I wanted you say that linking to bad neighborhood sites and porn and viagra and all the likes wouldn't hurt your site because I wanted it out of your own mouth so that when someone who does know seo stumbles on this thread they will see it and the nonsense advice given. In fact ill use your technique so it doesn't disappear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post
Ohhh boy ... you've really trapped me into a really complicated corner - you really should consider playing more poker! LOL ...



A. No [ because, whats the mystery element you want to conveniently leave out of this equation? SEO 101 that you elect to neglect ]

B. No - because that would be just as asinine as your initial premise and blanket statement.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:37 PM   #89
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post
Mike,

You're still running the sites over even if you place the links manually in your situation.
Marcus that makes no sense whatsoever in the real world. I know you think it sounds right but

A) it is way harder to over run a site with a person that say does 20 sites in a hour as opposed to 2,000. Undeniable. thats like saying the mass email bots that spammed tens of thousands of people had nothing to do with abuse that led to email spam being outlawed.
B) secondly real users are not overrunning a site. By that rational as a site grows it is being over ran. far more of my users will interact and use the site than a bot ever will.
C) I've always limited my membership so again the numbers are not on your side there either.

Quote:
I use a bot and make 100 profile links a day.
You sell a product that allows 10 people to build 10 profile links per day.

In both examples, there are 100 links being built. The only difference is that one way is more acceptable because someone is behind the computer, clicking I agree and filling out a captcha, while the bot is doing that work for someone?
you mean actually using the site the way the owner would wants is a detriment? thats really bad of me to see the difference and your numbers are just slanted. You just used numbers that would get you to an equal result. Better comparison would be ten people use a program that uses a manual system versus ten using a bot system.

Manual Ten would do a hundred
spam bot would do 10 times a thousand.

Which one would overrun a site - Case closed. Captain obvious.

If there was one guy running xrummer you would be right. Since thats not the case and those selling the other packages are pushing the use of them then you are abysmally wrong and easily proven so.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:37 PM   #90
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

I dont wish to keep getting on your case Mike but if anyone has been boxed in a corner here it is you Im afraid.

Let me just say "Double standards" when it suits your agenda, whatever that may be.

Afterall, selling a profile bot and then admitting to creating profile links and then purposefully creating a thread deliberately to antagonize anyone using profile links ... need I go on.

Infact, Im off to the backlinks forum, cant listen to this crap any longer.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:43 PM   #91
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot the Ball View Post
Afterall, selling a profile bot and then admitting to creating profile links and then purposefully creating a thread deliberately to antagonize anyone using profile links ... need I go on.

Infact, Im off to the backlinks forum, cant listen to this crap any longer.
please do take that lying to another forum where it will be taken with open arms. I never sold a bot. thats your invention. plus I never antagonized ANYONE using profile backlinks. in fact my OP never named any names. 33% right is a failing grade in any subject.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 02:51 PM   #92
Advanced Warrior
 
Jacob Martus's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 837
Thanks: 153
Thanked 216 Times in 147 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
you mean actually using the site the way the owner would wants is a detriment? thats really bad of me to see the difference and your numbers are just slanted. You just used numbers that would get you to an equal result. Better comparison would be ten people use a program that uses a manual system versus ten using a bot system.
Cause surely site owners want people signing up manually, leaving links in their profile and then never returning.

Let me get this straight.
I make profile links manually, no problem. Not running a site over.
I use a bot to make my links in exactly the same format, not good.

Ok I got it. It's ok because one of the methods makes me work harder.
Jacob Martus is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 04:04 PM   #93
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post
Cause surely site owners want people signing up manually, leaving links in their profile and then never returning.
Well if you have the mind of a spammer then yes you will never return. I've found great sites and I as i related been able to make connections that land me on page PR links. It would have never happened if I just sent a bot to them because I would have never been able to determine I had much greater opportunities and relate to the owner. I've even picked up business leads.


Quote:
Ok I got it. It's ok because one of the methods makes me work harder.
Well God forbid that you would ever respect the site that is giving you a backlink if it makes YOUR life a few seconds difficult to actually fill out the Captcha and agree to terms as you are asked to rather than circumventing the wishes for the user to agree and confirm their status as a using human being. . I mean the world revolves around what you want.

Just more push button IM nonsense that doesn't give you a good shot at on page PR opportunities but just a big pile of NAs.

Bottom line is you can do SEO any way you wish and I can call it whatever I wish.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 04:08 PM   #94
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Okays Guys . Its been Fun. Almost like old times

Nothing new seems to be on the table . Look forward to interacting with you many times in the near future.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 04:23 PM   #95
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

Well God forbid that you would ever respect the site that is giving you a backlink if it makes YOUR life a few seconds difficult to actually fill out the Captcha and agree to terms as you are asked to rather than circumventing the wishes for the user to agree and confirm their status as a using human being. . I mean the world revolves around what you want.

Just more push button IM nonsense that doesn't give you a good shot at on page PR opportunities but just a big pile of NAs.

Bottom line is you can do SEO any way you wish and I can call it whatever I wish.
The bottom line is you can maually fill the form out or have a bot do it faster.... result for both methods is a link.

I get what you are trying to say and if we could stop people abusing it by leaving dozens and dozens of links in one hit, then yeah, I agree ..... but someone can still leave dozens of links manually!

It's not the software that is the problem, its the people using it and a very small minority of people abusing it.

Wouldnt you agree?

No one can stop these people from doing this and by the same token, most people using software are probably trying hard to not piss the forum owners off.

I speak to people on forums using software and link packs and I can tell you most would rather be indiscreet and for their links to stand.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 05:06 PM   #96
Advanced Warrior
 
Jacob Martus's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 837
Thanks: 153
Thanked 216 Times in 147 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
Well if you have the mind of a spammer then yes you will never return. I've found great sites and I as i related been able to make connections that land me on page PR links. It would have never happened if I just sent a bot to them because I would have never been able to determine I had much greater opportunities and relate to the owner. I've even picked up business leads.
How many forums have you built a relationship at in comparison with how many that you haven't? I'm going to venture a guess that the number of forums that you haven't continued to participate in is higher than the number that you have...which if that is the case, then all of the forums that you didn't make connections at were just run over by your links.

Surely you haven't built connections at every forum you've made profiles on? And surely, the majority of your customers haven't either. So, you have done your fair share of running sites over manually. By your standards, if you don't return or establish some repoire then you have the mind of a spammer. You see, I do believe that you have made some good connections at forums which were originally intended for building profile links. But I also believe that there are plenty of forums which you haven't built connections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
Well God forbid that you would ever respect the site that is giving you a backlink if it makes YOUR life a few seconds difficult to actually fill out the Captcha and agree to terms as you are asked to rather than circumventing the wishes for the user to agree and confirm their status as a using human being. . I mean the world revolves around what you want.

Just more push button IM nonsense that doesn't give you a good shot at on page PR opportunities but just a big pile of NAs.

Bottom line is you can do SEO any way you wish and I can call it whatever I wish.
Like I said, I don't rely on forum profiles much anymore and I don't own any bots for building them. I use to rely on them heavily but have since been making use of link networks, syndicated content, and building relationships with similar sites.

The only reason I got involved in this thread was to point out how no matter whether you're using a bot or you're not, you're still there for the same reason. And just because you physically agree to the TOS and fill out a captcha doesn't really make you any less guilty of someone who has a bot do it for them.

Just like you have your opinion on this, I have mine which is that you are exactly the same because you advocate using forum profiles and sell a product which helps many other people use forum profiles. Whether done manually or not really makes no difference. Both groups of people are using other sites resources for one purpose: links.

The only judgement I'm making is that people who build forum profile links manually are no better than those who make use of a bot. I build profiles manually but I'm not in a better position than those who use a bot. We are both the same.
Jacob Martus is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 05:08 PM   #97
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot the Ball View Post
It's not the software that is the problem, its the people using it and a very small minority of people abusing it.

Wouldnt you agree?
Wow now that is new. Thats a far more reasonable approach. Yes I would agree almost wholeheartedly ( captcha breaking is just abuse anyway you slice it though).

Quote:
No one can stop these people from doing this and by the same token, most people using software are probably trying hard to not piss the forum owners off.
I'd disagree and agree. there are features in the tool that can be used wisely but the whole thing driving the use is set and forget blasts. Its sheer quantity with the calculation that some won't be removed.

Quote:
I speak to people on forums using software and link packs and I can tell you most would rather be indiscreet and for their links to stand.
Fair enough but how can you do that with blasts? How many times are you going to change up what the bot leaves if you are so concerned about it being easy.

I'll throw a bone out to everyone. its a crying shame its come to this. Before the Internet became so commercialized you could write great content put together a solid site and admins WOULD actually link to you. There was a kind of democracy to the web. If you built it well links would come. it was part of what the web was. Web admins saw that as part of their responsibility to help the whole web.

Now you have people even taking and using user generated content and slapping everything with nofollow. But we are creating the scenario even more by having the mentality that we can and should slap a link anywhere and in any fashion that we can. All I have called for is moderation and an approach that routinely does open up much better links with on page PR.

Go into just about any forum software makers sites and you can see the forum admins requesting more and more ways to shut down links value. Taking the blast you wherever I can attitude is only locking down more and more avenues. People like Tom laughed when I said forum software makers would start locking down their software and sure enough toward the beginning of this year Vbulletin started doing just that and sites that upgraded by default turned all their backlinks nofollow.

came here and said that what I predicted was coming to pass and the same crew descended on that thread just like this to squelch it because it hurt their bottom line to point it out. cause lets face it composing and selling forum link only lists is probably the easiest laziest way of composing a list with a scraper.

If people want their links to stick how can they take positions that put them on a collision course with forum admins and make them the enemy to be infiltrated and blasted at all cost. Its a downright STUPID short sighted approach that hurts everyone in the long run.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 05:52 PM   #98
HyperActive Warrior
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: new zealand
Posts: 194
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

well mike I think people that like to keep certain things zipped should not be branding things in relation to what they preach.
Google.me is offline  
Unread 21st October 2010, 05:52 PM   #99
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 8,669
Thanks: 978
Thanked 2,646 Times in 1,668 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post
How many forums have you built a relationship at in comparison with how many that you haven't? I'm going to venture a guess that the number of forums that you haven't continued to participate in is higher than the number that you have
You should be careful with your guesses based on what happened before in this thread but I am going to admit that honestly less would be right. But you know what? I have had less sites I stick with even when I signed up and didn't leave or intend to leave a link. I give the sites a shot at holding my attention. No one can promise anything more. I invest more especially because I see past that N/a link the bot gets and runs off to the next N/a zero link it can get.

Frankly I have cut down even further on my forum links. I much prefer sites where I can post in content links and there are tons that tell you openly you can post a blog about anything you want. But really I am going less and less with all those links. I think they are only good to start and fill in while the better links that take time to get fall into place.

Quote:
Surely you haven't built connections at every forum you've made profiles on? And surely, the majority of your customers haven't either. So, you have done your fair share of running sites over manually
Nope you are just trying to redefine what over run means to suit your point. Seriously the links my customers have left on forums probably wouldn't even show up as blip compared to the bots slamming through multiple times a day especially since I have never gone all into forums AT ANY TIME .

Quote:
By your standards, if you don't return or establish some repoire then you have the mind of a spammer.
Wrong again. If you have no mind to even give the site a shot at interesting you or being useful beyond the links thats where you have the mind of a spammer. Look lets cut to the chase - You don't even give the site a shot at your participation because using a bot you don't even see the pages or even know what the site is about because you just fed in a long list. and walked away. Every now and again I do go back to some sites that i didn't continue to partipate on - no not all - because I remember hey here was this site I recall. How could I? I saw the site. I knew what it was about.

Quote:
And just because you physically agree to the TOS and fill out a captcha doesn't really make you any less guilty of someone who has a bot do it for them.
let me fix that for you -

Quote:
Just because you follow the rules of a site rather than abusing the sites wishes when leaving a link they are kind enough to allow - ,because you actually read their terms of service to know you can - doesn't make you any better than the sites that slam it , don't follow the rules, don't read their TOS and abuse it by deliberately breaking their captcha
To which my response will be - Uh- huh.....sure.

But you know what call it all spam if you want. this thread isn't even about what you me or anyone else considers spam. It about what Bots have the power to do in weakening any site with mass linking. Bots make it easy to even wreck a site that says come and leave a link. despite Referrals nonsense even the admins on this site don't take kindly to be tagged by bots.

It makes it easier to tax a site and you can swing high , low do a jig wind yourself/ your logic up in a pretzel that s not good for forum owners and because its easier it weakens links and the prospects of keeping any on that site long term. fact and obvious.

Mike Anthony is online now  
Unread 21st October 2010, 06:11 PM   #100
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sunny Old Manchester, UK
Posts: 347
Thanks: 22
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Yep, Back in the day when the web was young all you had to do was stick a page up and they would come :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, times move on and if you dont move with them and you aint got a ton of money then you will become a dinosaur, actually you will still be plankton.

How it was in 2000 doesnt bare any relevancy to how things work right now, like it or not.

Comparing how it worked back in the day to how it works now are totally different scenerios, you can't do that anymore unless you want to starve for a few years.

The ball is already rolling and most people (especially in this age of uncertanty) do want want to waste a few years of their lives HOPEING an article goes viral and gets a few sales.

Bottom line is for most sane people is :

1) GO white hat and hope I can make some dough to feed myself and my family while the grey hatters feed theirs.

2) Go join the grey hatters and make hay while I can.

If its a choice between feeding myself or upholding some holy linking grail, I,ll feed myself as I,m sure most people would.

Sure, I,ll do the white hat stuff too, but dont expect me to uphold some make believe moral law that will let me starve whilst I can feel all good about myself.

I live in the real world, not just some idealistic internet fairytale written 10 years ago.
Spot the Ball is offline  
Closed Thread

  Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Search Engine Optimization

Bookmarks

Tags
constantly, declining, links, massive, power, spam

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 PM.