Question about ranking against a BIG website !

SeFi

13 years ago

Up Please

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SeFi 13 years ago

nobody ?:confused:
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- dburk 13 years ago
  
  Hi SeFi,
  
  Search engines don't rank pages based on backlink counts, they rank them based on relevance. Nothing in your post indicates the strength of relevance for your competition. So it could be easy or it could be hard, there is no way to know without more details.
  
  Why not tell us some specific and useful information like on-page factors. Does your competition use the targeted term in page titles, meta descriptions, URLs and anchortext? How many backlinks use the targeted term in anchortext and what is the PR of the backlinks that do? Give us some of those details and we can give you an opinion.
  
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FredJones

13 years ago

Go check Amazon's total backlinks and inner page backlinks, and see how many times have they been outranked!

There is your answer

Originally Posted by SeFi

Hi guys, i was asking myself this question when i was doing my keyword research:

Do you think it's easy to rank higher than a website that has more than 100k or even 500k backlinks for the domain but on this particular page for this given keyword, only 1 or 2 BL ...?

If yes how many BL do you think ?

Thanks a lot guys !

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Thomas De 13 years ago

If your page has more or stronger backlinks and is onpage optimized, then you should outrank the particular keyword page of the big website.
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HorseStall

13 years ago

Google uses a combination of factors from backlinks to relevance to the trust of the site etc...

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jcsolutions69 13 years ago

It depends, Google uses a combination of keyword relevance and backlinks to decide. Your website needs to have a good number of good quality backlinks to compete, even if your article/post has good keyword relevance.
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Tyrus Antas

13 years ago

It's not just quantity: relevancy, quality,
diversity are all important to determine if
a site gets a top ranking.

Tyrus

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ryant21

13 years ago

Backlinks Quantity comes second, Quality comes first. Using Market samurai is really saved a lot of time.

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the_knight

13 years ago

Google score rules:

GoogleScore = (KeyWord Usage Score * 0.3) + (Domain Strength * 0.25) +(Inbound Link Score * 0.25) + (User Data * 0.1) + (Content QualityScore * 0.1) + (Manual Boosts) – (Automated & Manual Penalties)

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by the_knight

Google score rules:

GoogleScore = (KeyWord Usage Score * 0.3) + (Domain Strength * 0.25) +(Inbound Link Score * 0.25) + (User Data * 0.1) + (Content QualityScore * 0.1) + (Manual Boosts) - (Automated & Manual Penalties)

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

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the_knight 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

I read it somewhere, i forget where, but i saved it into notepad
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- dburk 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by the_knight
  
  I read it somewhere, i forget where, but i saved it into notepad
  
  Hi the_knight,
  
  There is plenty we don't know about how Google works, but there is also plenty we do know. This formula seems to leave out the parts we do know about and includes mostly the most speculative notions of how Google ranks pages.
  
  I would say that about half of the formula is pure nonsense and some of the most well known factors like PageRank are completely omitted. Frankly the notion of manual boosts and penalties simply won't scale to an application like Google. Google doesn't need to use penalties, manual or automated, to rank SERPs.
  
  Google is focused on returning useful and relevant results for their users. Things like "domain authority" offer no value in achieving that goal. It would only serve to reduce relevance and usefulness of query results. Google is focused on qualities specific to the individual page, not the domain. You could call this "page authority". Google has another name for it, they call it PageRank and Trust.
  
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brandonbaker 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

SEOmoz | A Little Piece of the Google Algorithm - Revealed
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- dburk 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by brandonbaker
  
  SEOmoz | A Little Piece of the Google Algorithm - Revealed
  
  Hi brandonbaker,
  
  Yes, Rand said those things, but Rand himself had to back off those speculative assertions after his own data did not support the formula. If you look at his latest models they have minimized importance of "Domain Authority" since the data indicated all authority is page specific.
  
  He hasn't given up completely on the notion of domain authority, he just can't find any evidence that supports anything but page authority. I suspect that he clings to the notion of domain authority since he has invested so much in its' existence.
  
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Jordan Kovats

13 years ago

Originally Posted by the_knight

Google score rules:

GoogleScore = (KeyWord Usage Score * 0.3) + (Domain Strength * 0.25) +(Inbound Link Score * 0.25) + (User Data * 0.1) + (Content QualityScore * 0.1) + (Manual Boosts) - (Automated & Manual Penalties)

Wow, I never knew the algorithm was made public.

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brandonbaker 13 years ago

Originally Posted by theseoguys

Wow, I never knew the algorithm was made public.

It's not. This was Rand Fishkin taking a stab at what it might look like.
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rkz0121

13 years ago

It all depends on the quality of the stuff you're getting your backlinks from. In essence Having a few high quality backlinks is better than a ton of low quality ones!

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socialbookmark

13 years ago

If even you optimize your pages totally optimized with on-page seo factors, its very difficult to outrank your competitor's website if the backlinks for that website to be relevant and from quality websites. But if your competitor's website has only thousands of low quality backlinks, its easy to outrank it.
But usually a website which is ranking #1 for a very competitive keyword, and it has a lot of backlinks too, probably this site has relevant backlinks from quality websites and you can't beat it easily.

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jackbach

13 years ago

Hi there!
I'm having the same question. Let's say my keyword compete to:
#1 Particular page of about.com: BLP +-50 BLD +-20k
#2 Particular page of imdb.com: BLP +-100 BLD +-5M
#5 Particular page of wikipedia.com: BLP +-20 BLD +-75M
and more of the same with amazon, aolnews, youtube...
Most of them don't have the keyword in the title, desc, url and head.

Would it be easy to rank high?

Thnaks!

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jackbach

Hi there!
I'm having the same question. Let's say my keyword compete to:
#1 Particular page of about.com: BLP +-50 BLD +-20k
#2 Particular page of imdb.com: BLP +-100 BLD +-5M
#5 Particular page of wikipedia.com: BLP +-20 BLD +-75M
and more of the same with amazon, aolnews, youtube...
Most of them don't have the keyword in the title, desc, url and head.

Would it be easy to rank high?

Thnaks!

Hi jackbach,

Would they be easy to outrank? Perhaps.

You say "Most of them don't have the keyword in the title, desc, url and head", but that doesn't tell us what we need to know. Does any of the pages include those signals? And how about relative backlinks? What is the strength of those backlinks? Those are the signals that indicate the strength of competition, not backlink counts.

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jackbach

13 years ago

So sorry for what I'm about to ask, but English is not my native languaje and don't have to say that I'm kind of new generating backlinks (tho I can mark up SEO friendly html pretty well).

What do you mean with 'those signals'? 'relative backlinks'? 'strength of a backlink'?

BTW, a part of the title of a movie is my keyword. Some of those pages ranking high are related this movie.

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dburk

13 years ago

Hi jackbach,

Google uses what they call "signals" of relevance for determining which keywords are relevant for your web page, as well as how relevant your page is for those keywords. Keywords contained in page titles, meta tag descriptions, page headings, paragraphs and text in or near anchortext links are all signals of relevancy. These different signals of relevancy are given different weight in your page's overall relevancy score.

Backlinks pointing at your page are also signals of relevancy. The overall weight of each backlink is calculated based PageRank and trust factors which indicate the strength of the backlink's influence on relevancy for the keywords in and near the anchortext of those links. Where your page ranks in the SERP is based on the overall relevancy score of your page.

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brandonbaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Keywords contained in page titles, meta tag descriptions, page headings, [...]

Google doesn't use meta tag descriptions to calculate rankings:

Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Google does not use the keywords meta tag in web ranking

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amadaarizona 13 years ago

Backlinks does matter to rank your site but if that are relevant and from high pr, then makes more sense and are more useful rather than having more number of backlinks. So focus on high pr, relevancy and good content.
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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by brandonbaker

Google doesn't use meta tag descriptions to calculate rankings:

Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Google does not use the keywords meta tag in web ranking

Hi brandonbaker,

If you meant to say "Google doesn't use meta tag keywords to calculate rankings", then I would agree with you. I should, however point out that I didn't say meta tag "Keywords", instead I said meta tag "descriptions" which is used as a signal for ranking:
Meta tags - Webmaster Tools Help

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brandonbaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi brandonbaker,

If you meant to say "Google doesn't use meta tag keywords to calculate rankings", then I would agree with you. I should, however point out that I didn't say meta tag "Keywords", instead I said meta tag "descriptions" which is used as a signal for ranking:
Meta tags - Webmaster Tools Help

Yes, I know they follow meta tag descriptions, but the article that I linked points out:

Even though we sometimes use the description meta tag for the snippets we show, we still don't use the description meta tag in our ranking.

It's obvious they FOLLOW meta tag descriptions; it's what shows up in the SERPs. But they don't rank a site based on those descriptions. They're purely for the user's information.

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by brandonbaker

Yes, I know they follow meta tag descriptions, but the article that I linked points out:

It's obvious they FOLLOW meta tag descriptions; it's what shows up in the SERPs. But they don't rank a site based on those descriptions. They're purely for the user's information.

Hi brandonbaker,

I didn't spot that and it is interesting.

I did an experiment a while back where I included a keyword in the description meta tag and nowhere else on the page. After the page was indexed it appeared in search results for that keyword that appeared nowhere else on the page. That was several years ago, I guess it's time to test it again. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

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lcookidl

13 years ago

getting too many backlinks too fast is harmful

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marketgoal

13 years ago

Try to make quality back links over than quantity.

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suxes2005

13 years ago

You should also put keyword research into mind
as well as google dance. IMO it is very possible
Where the BL comes from matters as well

SHALOM

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chandan_dutta

13 years ago

Simple answer - YES, you can. You can overtake those pages that have less backlinks. Get a keyword enrich domain and create links. Also make sure to onpage SEO well. Very soon you are going overtake them.

Good Luck :-)

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Question about ranking against a BIG website !

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