Hmm... what happened to my ranking?

40 replies
  • SEO
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I have a site that is about a month old. For the past 2 1/2 weeks or so, it has been sitting around #7 on the front page for the main keyword.

This past week I started backlinking more heavily, about 100-150 links per day (I know it's not a lot, but still) linking to both the main domain as well as a few different subpages. Anyway, my website suddenly dropped from #7 to #400 a few days ago, and today it dropped from #400 to #500 for the main keyword.

The weird thing is, for the main keyword, it's now ranking higher for some of the subpages rather than the main index page that is SEO'd for the term. I mean, blahblah.com/page1 is ranking for "blah blah" above the main "blahblah.com" page. The main domain is also ranking around #100 for another keyword I started pursuing.

Is it bad to start using different anchor text on a page that is ranking for a certain keyword? What would cause this; is it just a "Google dance"?
#happened #hmm #ranking
  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Kovats
    Well my guess is you are n the dance. A 1 month old site with 100-150 links per day / 3000-4500 a month is WAY overdoing that. I would have maybe put that many (150) in in the first month. So I am not surprised you are sliding in the ranks. Hopefully you come out of the dance. If you do get penalized, put in a request for reconsideration. One of my sites, been up since April or so, started link building late July. Got to page 1 two days ago. Highly competitive term. I probably don't have 1500 links built since I started.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Nah, I wasn't doing 100-150 per day since day one... I just started doing that a few days ago, and then it dropped. It has well under 1000 backlinks total... I'd guess about 750 including the ones that don't show up under webmaster tools/yahoo/etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author phpnetpro
    Hey Matt,

    This does sound like a Google dance that I've had some of my sites put through after heavy backlinking (especially for a new site).

    In my experiences, it's taken my sites about 2 weeks to bounce back to their original ranking position. Half of the time, the sites return higher than they were when they left.

    However, I can't really guarantee that's what happening with your site. I only checked through 20 pages for my sites and was never able to find out where they dropped down to. I just know that Google seemed to make sure my site didn't receive any traffic during that period. Do a search for your own domain name (full thing: example.com) and see if you actually rank #1 for that. I found my sites wouldn't even rank #1 in those situations.

    I can't really make any comments about the main page being ranked worse than the sub pages in this situation though, since I never found my own sites in the rankings when I was doing the cha-cha with the big G.

    I would say if 6 weeks pass and you are still in the same situation, you probably get flagged, linked to a bad neighborhood or something of the sort. You don't have a home page that could be considered keyword spam, do you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Nope, it's showing as #1 when I search for the full domain. Homepage isn't keyword spammy, nope. I don't think so, anyway. It's about 3% density for the main keyword.

    I figured it would be a Google dance, but nothing I read here or elsewhere talked about having the main keyword fall right off the rankings, but having the domain rank for different pages still. I should note that the secondary keyword I started targeting for the main domain is now much higher than it used to be- it used to be around 800, now it's 100, post-backlinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Azlan
    not too worry since this is google dance... the rankings will go up and down....
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  • Profile picture of the author darkwizgemz
    We really can't cement our place to google ranks, someone will drag you down everyday.
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  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    There is nothing wrong with doing that many links per day, as long as you;

    a.) keep the momentum going (don't suddenly stop building them)
    b.) build links that stick

    As long as you get these things right you will come back to good rankings in no time! Google will dance new sites all around the place, there is nothing you can do about that. Just keep a strong link building strategy going and your results will start to steady out and rise the rankings.

    -Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Hmm, really? I've been looking at some other IMers websites, and they are clearly targeting more than one keyword on the main page. I further proved that by searching both keywords, in with they ranked on page 1 for both of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author scott g
      Originally Posted by mattward View Post

      Hmm, really? I've been looking at some other IMers websites, and they are clearly targeting more than one keyword on the main page. I further proved that by searching both keywords, in with they ranked on page 1 for both of them.
      Ranking for multiple keywords in an established niche is going to take some time. If you are targeting multiple words and your site is relatively new... You're going to confuse Google as to what you should rank for and dance the night away....

      As for backlinks. Be smart - build links that stick.... Google doesn't like to see 1000 backlinks one day from xyz and 5 the next.... That looks bad to you, us, and Google! Plus, there goes the anchor text in your links your were ranking for.

      And ALSO as for backlinks.... You could build 10 in a day or a thousand a day.... It doesn't matter. I thought this myth has been debunked time and time and time again. Plus, it's going to take G and Y! weeks and weeks to even FIND these backlinks... If you're lucky they might find 60% of them... Period.

      CHEERS! Just keep on building!


      B/c the wheel in the sky keeps on turning!
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      scott g
      "Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve."

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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Wow, it's now completely dropped from the top 1000. It's still fully indexed in google, though. I suppose I should just keep throwing backlinks to it?
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  • Profile picture of the author gittar1122
    I think it is happening due to Google dance. As your site is new and I will not suggest you going for large number of PR backlinks for your site. If you go for social bookmarking or directory submission then it will not hurt your site in any way.
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  • Profile picture of the author herisetiyawan.org
    i think your site is in google sandbox..Your site get too many backlink a day..it's too much..
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    • Profile picture of the author scott g
      Originally Posted by herisetiyawan.org View Post

      i think your site is in google sandbox..Your site get too many backlink a day..it's too much..
      WRONG... This isn't true.

      To OP - What's your Webmaster Tools telling you?! Do a site reconsideration?!

      It's possible that some of your backlinks were reported to Google as spam?!
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      scott g
      "Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve."

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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Nah, it's definitely doing a Google dance. It's back around 400 now... I'll just keep doing what I was doing and hope it comes back higher than it was.
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  • Profile picture of the author Billy Rey
    keep the links coming in, whatever number.

    keep the link juice flowing

    you will bounce around for a couple weeks or so. Nothing major. You'll come back more stable and better than ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author flavius333
    I'm back from a major downfall. I've been "out of the game" for a month and a few days.

    Phiew, that really hurt!

    The nightmare started when I did a massive linking campaign like never before. To get over this, I just continued publishing quality unique articles daily and did a press release. But I guess patience is a must in these cases.

    No more massive linking guys! Just focus on relevance and you'll be just fine!
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  • Profile picture of the author socialbookmark
    It seems that its Google dance as some other members told. Who said 150 links a day is not high when you probably made i.e 20 backlkinks per day before it?
    The number of your backlinks was suddenly increased and its clear that Google confuse. But don't worry. The website will be returned to previous position or something better than that in next weeks.
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  • Profile picture of the author forzaf1
    sounds like its the google dance. I had a site that was #4 on the first page. Then it dropped to position 90 and sat there for 2 months before it started bouncing back.
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  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    As mentioned here, I can also confirm that you should keep building links to the site. It's jumping around because it's new. Keep building and the rankings will steady out and then steadily increase if you continue to do the right thing.

    -Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Yeah, it keeps bouncing around a lot, around 400-500 mostly. I really hope it doesn't take months to come back like some people here have mentioned, because this was my first ever money making site.
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    • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
      Originally Posted by mattward View Post

      Yeah, it keeps bouncing around a lot, around 400-500 mostly. I really hope it doesn't take months to come back like some people here have mentioned, because this was my first ever money making site.
      I hate to tell you this, it may never come back. Its not the google dance; its not the sandbox.


      All new sites get an initial boost in the rankings when Google first finds tham (which is exactly what happened to your site). Do a search for QDF (Query Deserves Freshness). After that initial temproary boost, sites settle down to their natural rankings. Your site now ranks naturally where it should. To improve on that, you need to get to work on your SEO.

      (BTW, I wish more of my competitors would come here to get their SEO advice from some of those posting in this thread!)
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      • Profile picture of the author Jacob Martus
        I would have to agree with Cbpayne. It sounds like QDF and the only way you're going to be able to combat this is to build more and better links.

        Ideally, you want backlinks from high PR pages in a contextual nature. Meaning the links are found within the content, not in the footer, sidebar, or in a blog comment.

        However, those links aren't easy to come by and will usually cost you money. So, in light of that, any kind of contextual link is good. This includes, web 2.0 properties, articles, and blog networks like BuildmyRank, LV, SEOLV, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author nmarketing
        Originally Posted by cbpayne View Post

        I hate to tell you this, it may never come back. Its not the google dance; its not the sandbox.


        All new sites get an initial boost in the rankings when Google first finds tham (which is exactly what happened to your site). Do a search for QDF (Query Deserves Freshness). After that initial temproary boost, sites settle down to their natural rankings. Your site now ranks naturally where it should. To improve on that, you need to get to work on your SEO.

        (BTW, I wish more of my competitors would come here to get their SEO advice from some of those posting in this thread!)
        He is correct.

        "I wish more of my competitors would come here to get their SEO advice from some of those posting in this thread"
        I sadly said the same thing. SEO is not a cut and dry thing. Too many 'fast ranks' and un-ethical 'grey' areas can hurt tremendously. What most people miss is 'why' seo works like it does. I guess the more junk seo, the better for the sites with ethical proven seo.

        Also keep in mind what you link. People seemed to be concerned with the AMOUNT of links, when its the QUALITY of link. Quality = Value and Value = Trust. This is Google's main concern: Relevance and Trust. You could have one link from a major site and do better than a site with thousands from 'low trusted' sites.

        I have one site with 12 links that ranks within the top 100k in the USA and #1 for the KW targeted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm reading about QDF is that it only applies to "hot" or "trending" topics? My website is not exactly based around a "hot" topic, to say the least. This sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
      User retention also helps try keeping the bounce rate below 50, maybe even updating or optimizing the popular pages to keep them there longer
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      • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
        Originally Posted by BigDaddys101 View Post

        User retention also helps try keeping the bounce rate below 50, maybe even updating or optimizing the popular pages to keep them there longer
        Care to explain how that actually helps rankings? Care to explain how that caused the OP's problem? Care to expalin how some of my sites rank so well and have bounce rates approaching 100%?
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        • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
          Originally Posted by cbpayne View Post

          All new sites get an initial boost in the rankings when Google first finds tham (which is exactly what happened to your site). Do a search for QDF (Query Deserves Freshness). After that initial temproary boost, sites settle down to their natural rankings. Your site now ranks naturally where it should. To improve on that, you need to get to work on your SEO.

          Just to clarify I fully agree with this, I have seen it personally on a completely useless site. The site jumped to pr 2 soon after i created it and left the 5 related posts there, but it wasn't long before the site just disappeared altogether and still sits there with the same posts.


          Originally Posted by cbpayne View Post

          Care to explain how that actually helps rankings? Care to explain how that caused the OP's problem? Care to expalin how some of my sites rank so well and have bounce rates approaching 100%?
          I wish I could explain exactly how......I can't.

          I know from personal experience that playing with the popular pages and making them more useful has not only lowered my bounce rate alot but my site is ranking for keywords that I would have never imagined I would rank for due to competition alone.

          But cbpayne have you tried this technique? It sounds to me like you have not. And why the attitude? How many sites do you have? Would it hurt to try it one (maybe the one with a 98% + bounce rate) before spouting off at the mouth?
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          • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
            Originally Posted by BigDaddys101 View Post

            But cbpayne have you tried this technique? It sounds to me like you have not. And why the attitude? How many sites do you have? Would it hurt to try it one (maybe the one with a 98% + bounce rate) before spouting off at the mouth?
            I have 100's of sites. And all my experiments are that bounce rate has NO impact on rankings. And that is the consensus of most professionals SEO's as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
              Originally Posted by cbpayne View Post

              And that is the consensus of most professionals SEO's as well.
              I am not most, and prefer to be outside the box.

              Maybe it was just content optimization alone that brought higher rankings, idk, either way I am happy with the results. Trial and Error has been my best technique so far.
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    • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
      Originally Posted by mattward View Post

      Maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm reading about QDF is that it only applies to "hot" or "trending" topics? My website is not exactly based around a "hot" topic, to say the least. This sucks.
      This happens to all new sites when google first finds them - what its actaully called does not matter; years ago it was called the freshbot effect (who has been around long enough to remember the freshbot crawler that google used to send out?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    This has just happened to one of my sites for the main home page, the other pages are still ranking ok.

    The only thing I have done differently with this one was that yesterday I realized I didn't have a sitemap on this site so I put one on yesterday. I was ranking #5 for my main keyword and had been for a couple of months, now I'm down in the hundreds somewhere
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    • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      The only thing I have done differently with this one was that yesterday I realized I didn't have a sitemap on this site so I put one on yesterday.
      Sitemaps don't affect ankings. I don't waste my time on a sitemap for most of my sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    Wow there's so much misinformation in this thread it's amazing!

    Stop scaring yourself. SEO is a pain in the ass, especially for new sites and when you can't get high PR links to your site.

    If you want to bypass this nonsense just buy an aged domain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Just an update... my website is back... at #6!
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    • Profile picture of the author rinor81
      Hey Matt,
      Good Luck man, from my experience they can disappear again, right now my site which is 3 months old is back on #5 and two other which were #7 & #8 are gone again....still the dance? :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Giani
    I believe too much of anything is bad. Google suspects something wrong when your backlinks increase suddenly or if you are using autoblogging at about more than 2-3 posts a day.

    Google does keep changing their rules. So watch out what next.
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  • Profile picture of the author vibe89
    Its just a google dance. keep doing..Good Luck man
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    Well, it was #6 for 4-5 days and now it's down to #400 or something again. I guess I'll just keep working on it and not look at the rankings for a while.

    It's weird that the other site I started around the same time is high on page 1 and hasn't danced at all yet. I'm glad I have a bunch of sites going now, because this one doesn't bother me nearly as much when I'm working on 4-5 other sites at the same time.
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